The Biggest Dilemma In FIBA Basketball

In recent years, a significant trend has emerged in the world of basketball - American players naturalization. More and more countries around the world think that in order to achieve something - they need help from a naturalized American player. In this video, we dive into the reasons how this trend got so popular and the pros, cons of it.
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Get an additional -10% discount for all hosting plans: www.hostg.xyz/SHEdJ. Free domain as well as free AI Website Builder is included. Start building your dream business now! What's your opinion on player naturalization? Do you support it? 👀 Let us know in the comments below ✍ If you enjoyed the video, help us grow by hitting the like button & subscribing to our channel! 🙌 Lastly, follow us on social media for more content: Twitter: twitter.com/basketnews_com/ Instagram: instagram.com/basketnews/ Inquiries for partnership: [e-mail]

[@stathis_brikos]

Tyler Dorsey's mother is Greek, so he should not be in your video.

[@user-ms6hx8kz1u]

did someone pay you to make this video lol....naturalizations are fine to even out the competittion since the gap between asian teams and european teams are so wide

[@user-ms6hx8kz1u]

are you paid by fiba to make this video?

[@emanantonov]

Why are you constantly involving Jordan Clarkson in your video when he has deep Filipino Roots? His mother is a full-blooded Filipino. And also to answer your question about my take on naturalization, it is good for the development of the basketball roots of the country. Having just one naturalized player won't actually hurt the uniqueness of the national basketball teams but actually makes teams get used to the pace of their naturalized players while maintaining their brand and style of basketball. Take for example the Japanese National Basketball Team. They have a lot of naturalized players but actually just choosing one that fits in their basketball system. Their locals are actually the people making the noise and not really their naturalized players. Gilas Pilipinas too is actually adopting that philosophy recently with Tim Cone as the Head Coach. His modernized triangle offense needs specific players like Justin Brownlee and locals to run the basketball system. It all boils down to the coaching matters. We Filipinos are in love with basketball systems meta so it doesn't lose the uniqueness of our identity as basketball fanatics. Maybe it's just an ego thing having only locally developed players to represent their country. There are some naturalized players having basketball roots in the countries they play for like Angelo Kouame. He may have no Filipino blood but his basketball roots are from the Philippines. He is locally developed as a player.

[@96wtfomg]

I don't like Naturalization when players have no connection to the country. Feels really cheap.

[@gregorslana7723]

It feels completely broken..

[@tmac5135]

Exactly. The rule is in play so that refugees or their children can represent their country. But now it's exploited by a lot of countries and it should be restricted by some kind of rule.

[@danteessa3062]

yeah, some one is loyal enough to play 7-12 years, if they get opportunity to get EU pasport and make good money as EU player. Most Basketball Federation make a deal with player 2/3/4y contract on playing in national team, then you free to leave, dont playing any more for national team, just enjoy playibng in EU with out limit american players on team

[@clintonbaird5465]

Well they certainly care about playing well to make a living off of basketball. So if they’re better than the other options why does it matter where their drive comes from?

[@clintonbaird5465]

@@NikosNikos-dr7wv you don’t think these teams want the best options out there to win games? What is it about then?

[@AlpArslanTheSeljuk]

Americans taking over FIBA while Europeans are taking over NBA lol

[@FrankHor101]

Is Europe a country? 😂😂 Doncic, Jokic and who else?

[@svendpoulsen1743]

Giannis, Sabonis, Wemby etc etc etc, and Europe will keep dominating the NBA 😀@@FrankHor101

[@gabepizza]

@@FrankHor101 Giannis, Sabonis

[@FrankHor101]

@@gabepizza Giannis is african

[@FrankHor101]

@@gabepizza Giannis is african hahaha

[@miguelc6563]

To be fair with Towns, Clarkson and Anderson, they are of mixed descent so they have every right to represent either of the 2 nationalities that they posses.

[@slee2695]

No they're American...both his parents are American citizens

[@ZoraDelaney]

@@slee2695 They're actually American AND Dominican (Towns), Filipino (Clarkson), and Mexican (Anderson). They have dual citizenship, because of their bicultural backgrounds.

[@RoamingHeathen]

@@slee2695you shouldn’t type before you research

[@slee2695]

@@RoamingHeathen his mom is an American citizen regardless of where she's born....she chose another country as being better

[@killpunkkk1097]

​@@slee2695rage bait or are you slow

[@AlextremECW2]

Ok, but Karl Towns has represented the Dominican Republic since I was 15 years old in minor categories and he participated and he participated in major categories on the Olympics Qualifiers 2012 and Fiba Americas 2013 as native. And although he did not play for a long period, he maintained his connection with the DR. He is not a stranger without strong roots for Dominican fans.

[@loganmclarry]

Doesn’t he also have a Dominican parent?

[@BanBanChi]

@@loganmclarry i believe his mother is dominican

[@AlextremECW2]

@@loganmclarry Yes, he is half Dominican because of his mother.

[@o.j287]

​@@AlextremECW2 but KAT is not included in this video, the Nisiquiea plays as a naturalized player, he plays as a local, because he has had a passport since before he was 16 years old

[@ZoraDelaney]

@@o.j287 Kat is literally shown in this video.....

[@Flying-Flo]

A naturalization should make sense. Either to represent your ancestors' roots, or because you are deeply integrated in a new country and you speak its language and know its culture after playing there multiple seasons.

[@gricius]

and Lorenzo Brown or Mike Tobey were deeply related to the national teams that invited them to play? Imagine there's a national athem going and your teammates are singing from their heart before the game, and you as naturalised player or free agent don't even understand a single word.

[@NotHere07]

​@@griciusthats the point.

[@gloopdogg1145]

So just Rich Europe countrys got that right ...Make Euroleague teams with domestic players and say bay bay to Turkey,Spaine etc teams ...Just look at teams from Spaine in Euroleague,all 3 teams dont got 10 players born n raised there...Just like in football...But sport is just for rich countrys i guess...

[@user-gb5nw7tf5q]

What Sochan is doing here? He plays for Poland as his mother and him have polish citizenship.

[@Piechu19]

He's half Polish. His mother is Polish. She played bball just like his American dad. Also, his grandad was a member of basketball organisations in Poland. Basketball family :)

[@kevinsamaran420]

Same thing with Terry Tarpey for France. Born and raised in France, with an american pro baller father who played in France.

[@David-wo9lu]

we Serbs would rather be last in tournament then get someone who dont have anything to do with Serbia. never.

[@audrius1683]

Respect! Same in Lithuania.

[@MrSheduur]

100% agree. Funny enough, Germany has some black guys but 99% of them are actually german born or living in germany for 10+ years and we got accused of doing the same as spain for example... I have high respect for Serbia because the only "win at all costs" they do is they foul hard, but that is something you can prepare for :D

[@markogujanicic533]

@@MrSheduurnick weiler babb is naturalised and played in eurobasker for germany

[@gabepizza]

@@MrSheduur Don't forget Chris Kaman!!

[@tadusgaming6760]

A ženska repka?

[@j.r.h.9265]

Before Justin Brownlee was naturalized and able to represent, he has been playing in the domestic league of the Philippines for seven years. It's pretty ignorant to say that he has no connection with the Philippines when he has been in and out of the country since 2016 - which predates his time as a naturalized player for the Philippines.

[@robertotampioc7318]

Although before andray Blatche played for Gilas even he has no connection in the Philippines, we are guilty too before…

[@larryjones4760]

​@@robertotampioc7318Before Andray Blatche it was Marcus Douthit

[@jeffcayetano1412]

But in the case of kouame he had studied in ateneo also thats why he's okay with this topic about naturalization

[@bada89bing34]

Worst case is Embid,at one point dude was in the mix for Cameroon,France and USA,its pure bullshit.

[@Starkweather133]

He was born in Cameroon, left when he was 16. Dual nationalities are a thing

[@robind3911]

⁠@@Starkweather133in that case Embiid was just begging France and USA at the same time to give him a passport, which is ridiculous

[@Starkweather133]

@@robind3911 I agree, who would want to willingly be American? Although if his parents are French and American then it checks out

[@Eppu_Paranormaali]

Yes, ironic that the country that dominates basket player production has to poach for foreign players to have a shot at major titles. Although Banchero is American, his stealing from Italian commitment was also ridiculous and desperate act from the US... and they still were left out of medals. 😂

[@ZoraDelaney]

@@Starkweather133 Plenty of people, given that the waiting list to become American is LONG.......

[@lewisrodriguezespigares3325]

I'm from Spain and I absolutely agree with you. For those who have a real connection with the country it may have some logic (your parents or grandparents were from that country, or you have spent years of your life there), but cases like Lorenzo Brown with us make no sense. National teams are national teams. I think that they should be other kind of tournaments.

[@tainanking]

I'm glad you agree. Lorenzo brown really gave them an x-factor to me when Spain talentwise was a bit off. I mean I was very surprised they pulled over that win because France has just got more talent but Brown put them over the top

[@vulee100]

Might as well have a offseason where countries can sign whoever. Give ataman a budget and let him win the euros

[@GNT1991]

Yeah, i remember an interview with Bo Mccaleb, he was asked does he know where Macedonia is and he said he has no idea. Thats just bad! 😒

[@bryx170]

Hey, Justin Brownlee is really familiar in Filipino basketball scene. He really has a deep connection with Filipino basketball and he knows how it works. So, his naturalization is valid given that he played professionally here since joining Ginebra.

[@bigtimeaze-azeramos9645]

damn you beat me to it already

[@SplinterCatalogue]

Exactly, his naturalization can be justified as he's been in the country for 8 years.

[@jeffcayetano1412]

Also kouame he studied in ateneo

[@bryx170]

@@jeffcayetano1412 exactly

[@slXD100]

@@SplinterCatalogue so what if there are 12 others like him, should that be allowed too, just because they spent a few years in that country and only went to it in the first place to make money because they failed to achieve their goals in their country of origin? it's all fun and games when one or two guys do that but what if 12-20 do it and then you have a team made up by foreigners who just came to work there for a while?

[@user-qw8ji4mn1k]

The most qualitive and substantial content about basketball in Europe! As a Greek ,I totally agree with you,we don't need naturalization

[@cuseyeti_one8three]

Greece?! You have one African transplant family of basketball stars and now you want to talk about being competitive internationally on your own? Stop it. You’d have zero shot winning an international tournament without the Antetekoumpos.

[@yellowwasprakija2869]

But we should allow for connections to play for a country. I am sure that there are second and third generation players in the US who are from Greek background that could be top quality, but would never make team USA. There should be an ability for a player like this to play for Greece (using Greek as an example) without a passport by age of 16 rule

[@boza5684]

Obtaining citizenship should be tightened, at least 2-3 years for a player to play in that country. And countries that are in, for example, the first 10 on the FIBA ​​ranking list, should be prohibited from naturalizing players. That way, it might be more equal, this is what will happen to the "poor" the americans have to take Embiid because they don't have a good center. Imagine Cameroon with him...

[@innosanto]

No because the top 10 would go off it and forced to naturalise. It should be very hard to naturalise in all cases. One of oarents or two to have ancestry.

[@mohamedabdourahman9845]

I'd also add requiring a player to have played in that country for a minimum of 6 years before they can be naturalized.

[@ZoraDelaney]

Embiid has now lived in USA about as long as he lived in Cameroon so.......

[@badaboum2]

FIBA doesn't have a say in how countries deal with giving citizenship to foreign nationals, obviously and thankfully, since that matter impacts lives way beyond sports. That's why they limit naturalized players.

[@ernieb8490]

FIBA has no leverage to tell governments how they should disperse citizenship to people

[@reynaldomatos6153]

I saw that you guys showed Karl Towns on your video quite a few times, let me bring some context into KAT playing for the Dominican Republic and not USA (Having the talent to play with team USA). KAT has been playing under the Dominican Basketball federation flag since he was 14 years of age, he even grew up with Dominican born and raised player Angel Delgado. His mother Jacqueline Cruz, was born in the Dominican Republic and had Karl get his Dominican passport at a very early age. Karl has been playing with our senior team since 2012 when he was in High School. I, as a Dominican find it really disrespectful that you guys did not bring this FACT up. Karl, just like me, is a Dominican citizen that can vote and holds a Dominican ID card (cedula). Karl Anthony Towns Cruz does not play with the Dominican Republic as a naturalized player, he plays as a NATIVE, as also does Lester Quinones and Justin Minaya all of them got their passports as teenagers and have one or both parents, in the case of Minaya, that were born in the Dominican Republic.

[@joshrillo]

They had clarkson there too. And the greek one too. I know they grew up in US but they also have a connection to their respective countries. They have that blood flowing in them.

[@gabepizza]

I mean he was born and raised in the US and only has one Dominican parent. Not that I have a problem with him playing for DR but he is not 100% Dominican

[@AlexTorres-fo5eo]

@@gabepizza and your point? Are we doing blood libel now? Dude's Dominican, that it

[@gabepizza]

@@AlexTorres-fo5eo Dominican-American

[@AlexTorres-fo5eo]

@@gabepizza Dominican... grow up

Kinda weird to have Terry Tarpey in there, dude's born in France from an american father. Given that french law is based on where you were born... And it's not like he has been imported as a superstar. He has been battling in the french pro A for years...

[@SanFranFan30]

yeah, Tarpley wasn't even naturalized since he was already a citizen.

[@alexanderpaulsanchezfahren9263]

What Spain did with Lorenzo Brown was an insult to all basketball fans, but specially to spanish players and coaches. Spain has been able to produce great generational talent for over 15-20 years, and that doesn't come out of the blue. It's a result of hard work done by many proffesionals who devote thesmselves to their pation without receiving much money for it. And don't get me wrong, we've had naturalized players who we have felt very proud of, like Mirotic or Ibaca, but that is because we were of huge importance in their succes as players. But Lorenzo Brown? That's a huge stain for Spains national team history.

[@tayloryoung9803]

tbf its almost the same with Football, they naturalized Lenormand, Laporte and Diego Costa. Neither grew up in Spain and have any bloodline connection . Just got a passport in their twenties. its shamefull when so much home talent anyway

[@allonzotate7497]

Brown is better than both those guys 😂😂😂

[@pixytorres7117]

Spanish basketball is dead and they have no talents and young guys anymore that's why they took Lorenzo. Spanish basketball has gone the same way Greek basketball is and it's only going to get worse.

[@MrSheduur]

bad thing for sure. I am still pissed that spain used Lorenzo Brown and he was the main reason they could beat germany in the last fiba euros. No connection to the country, zero. This should be absolutely shamed by the entire national team community. I am 100% of the same oppinion as you, when big teams do this, and especially how spain did it, that is just completely messed up and they SHOULD be ashamed of themselves for doing this. I heard alot of "but we needed pointguards because we always had great pointguards!". Yeah, spain had the first time in a long time where they did not have a great point guard. Guess what? DEAL WITH IT, instead of acting like a club team...

[@8teenOfficial]

At least Jordan Clarkson is half Filipino

[@shush712]

Same with Tyler Dorsey as he has a Greek mother

[@slee2695]

Both his parents are American citizens

[@ZoraDelaney]

@@slee2695 His mother is BOTH a Filipino citizen by birth and a naturalized U.S. citizen.

[@slee2695]

@@ZoraDelaney so she's a US citizen

[@koby5915]

​@slee2695 US Citizen with filipino blood. How can you be so smart and dumb at the same time?

[@matijav.s.1264]

And Serbia has 0 naturalized players in the national team.

[@karstenhanel8481]

I think Germany too

[@tainanking]

@@karstenhanel8481 wrong. Weiler-babb

[@christianscheidt57]

He was not part of the worldcup squad@@tainanking

[@tainanking]

@@christianscheidt57 that doesn't matter. he's part of their national team setup from recent. plus, germany has used naturalized players anyways. what are you arguing about? lol

[@AC_Mitchell]

And they’re buns hmm

[@AndrejsSilins6]

Take Latvia for example. Zero naturalized players, just the local talent with the right coach at the helm (not Latvian, though) and what a World Cup run with huge promise before the EuroBasket2025.

[@dusandusanic8541]

Serbia 😋

[@andriuscibas]

​@@dusandusanic8541serbia has 2 naturalized players...noobs

[@johnjosephalvior5285]

HAHAHA ASIAN IS NOT LIKE YOUR COUNTRY WE DONT HAVE THAT SIZE AND SKILL SO ATLEAST 1 IS NOT A BIG DEAL

[@MrDuncanquasar]

A player should have to have some kind of connection to the country. Playing in it's league for a number of years, ethnic backgorund of the country, or maybe through marriage. Otherwise it's just free agency.

[@slXD100]

well if it's just marriage, it's naturalization 2.0 and serves as little value. i think naturalization shouldn't happen, or, maybe don't pay them. so whoever wants to play for a country theyre playing in a team in, you at least know that their mind is set on either medal success and/or wanting to represent that country.

[@tnavswwe52]

Should be like in football/soccer where if you don’t have parents or grandparents from another nation you can’t play there… unless you get nationality + played in the nation’s league for at least 5 years after being 18 years old

[@Kill_Bill_007]

Exactly, those are rules that make sense. The FIBA rules make no sense at all.

[@badaboum2]

That's not without issues, like more than half of the Algerian national team being players born and raised in France, who have never lived in Algeria but have Algerian ancestry.

[@huykim4663]

FIBA rules are better at prioritizing local development programs though. In football, you can field a team full of half-bloods (even quarter-bloods), who possibly has never trained a single day in the respective country before the first national team call-up. In basketball, except for the one naturalization case, all the other players are pretty much the product of both their innate talent + hardwork and the development program(s) within the country. Both have pros and cons, so I definitely won’t suggest making FIBA eligibility rules a carbon copy of the FIFA ones.

[@lazakour]

This bs needs to stop. If you can make transfers (even 1 player per time) makes the national talent concept useless and the national team purpose too. If Spain doesnt have pg thats their problem to figure out or fail. Same with my country and Walkup (i support oly btw), croatia with smith, slovenia with Tobbey etc.

[@ssk-_-dotz3773]

It makes sense for a country that isn’t good at basketball but doesn’t make sense for the bigger national teams

[@P4F28183]

I think we should separate different cases of naturalization. Having someone like Walkup (has spent several years playing in Greece) and Kyle Anderson (mother is half Chinese) should be valid cases. These are not the same as Lorenzo Brown or Rondae Hollis Jefferson that have no blood connections to their teams and had never even set foot in Spain and Jordan respectively until they were naturalized.

[@Antpaok]

I'm Greek and think even Walkup is stretching it. Unless there's actual cultural or ancestral connection to the country, it should not be happening. Walkup is taking up a spot that a potential actual Greek player could've had

[@ivblizzard3616]

@@Antpaok maybe cause you are supporting a different team than the one Walkup plays for

[@Antpaok]

@@ivblizzard3616 ahaha actually I don't even care about club basketball, I'm speaking strictly in principle

[@zerevv]

is marrying the locals considered valid or not a valid case?

[@andreas9720]

​@@zerevv personally I would say if the person lives in the country for more than 3-5 years and has a spouse from this country he should be eligible for citizenship but shouldn't be able to play for any other country afterwards. In short you can change citizenship once but once you make that choice that's it. No changing countries like clubs.

[@shinodaprime9182]

Whats the whole point of a National Team , if you treat it like a club team... Pointless

[@nrnrnrnrnrnnrnrnrnr]

How sick is this: "Lorenzo Brown has never lived in Spain, has no Spanish ancestry, he's never played for a Spanish team, and the only times he's set foot in the country (to this day) has been when he's visited it with one of his European club teams. But now he's playing for Sergio Scariolo's Spain side, and Spaniards are absolutely loving it.

[@reelsmb]

FIBA should relax their citizenship rule in order for a country to field a competitve national team especially with those who has roots like in Clarkson's case he is half filipino however FIBA couldnt consider him as a local player because he got a Philippine passport after 16 years old. So if these kind of rules be changed, then every nation can field a competitve team instead of getting a naturalised player. However, FIBA is biased and favoring some countries regarding the HAGOP rule.

[@96wtfomg]

I didn't like Lorenzo Brown's naturalization precisely because of what you said. Nothing against Brown, but Spain should focus on local talent to keep it's success going, they have been a great basketballing nation and I hope that doesn't change in the future.

[@MrSheduur]

Yeah. The way they justified it was basically "we are spain. we deserve to have a great pointguard because we always had great pgs.". Can't get more arrogant and spoiled like that. Plus, they actually have really good young talents on that position.

[@Pakk]

As Spaniard, I agree that brown was unexpected and the only occasion, just serge ibaka and mirotic (both spend all teenager at Spain, and speak it fluently) were accepted previously. Scariolo is the real star national team coach we cannot say no to whatever he wants.

[@gabepizza]

yeah that was the worst of the worst. Most other top teams the players have some connection. Even Embiid with the USA has been living and playing ball in the US since he was 16

[@RafaelGarcia-eu4lp]

I did not like Brown's naturalization at all, he got a european citizenship and that's it, he will never compete again for Spain. Scariolo got exactly the type of player he wanted to keep on playing pick and roll without Ricky Rubio and el Chacho. You can't later complain that your young players are not getting minutes,

[@darmawan3029]

We should stop non blood related naturalization but make all descent players able to represent their home land with no limitations of number (as long as their parents/grandparents came from the said country) alot of nba players are a son or a grandson of an immigrant, let them play for their grandparents/parents nation without counting them as naturalized players. Imagine how fun international ball would be

[@slXD100]

what about players like Giannis who were born and raised in greece and got to get greek citizenship almost only due to being a quality prospect? something he most likely wouldn't have gotten if he was just an office clerk

[@MultiAmbivalent]

Thanks for making this video. Watching all these Americans playing for other countries from here in Australia is starting to look ridiculous. I was particularly put out when it was announced Matisse Thuybulle would be considered a "naturalised" player if chosen to represent Australia. Matisse spent a good part of his childhood in Australia and maintained an Australian passport even after he and his family re-located back to the US. So he is unquestionably Australian, both in terms of his personal identity (he continued to identify as Australian-American) and legally (his passport). So it irked me to see that Mike Tovey nufty, playing for Serbia with ZERO connection to the country, was classified the same as Matisse when the two countries played at the World Cup. In the past when American-born players were picked to represent Australia they had to qualify on residency criteria. So the players playing (Ricky Grace, Leroy Loggins etc) had lived in Australia for long periods (more than ten years for those examples), so you could even argue they had a connection to the country. There is NO WAY IN HELL we would pay some random American to play for us. This is what has shocked me about legitimate basketball countries like Greece and Spain exploiting this loophole. For us it would be a pride thing. We just would not do that. Aren't these countries embarrassed? My question is, is the criteria for residency now non-existent? When did all these change?

[@uwukuru9784]

i dont really know why fiba doesnt want to follow in fifa’s footsteps

[@abuyusufabdulhakim952]

It's been happening for a long time. Olajuwon played for the US. Banchero now is playing for the US. Embiid will probably play for the US.

[@ZoraDelaney]

Banchero was born and entirely raised in the U.S. His mother is a FOBA (Foundational Black American) with *centuries*-long ties to the U.S., before it was even the USA.

[@gabepizza]

@@ZoraDelaney even his father was born in the US too and played college football. You have to get to his grandparents to get to Italy

[@slXD100]

Banchero was born and raised in the states though, not a good example.

[@keintmarksugarol9354]

Jordan Clarkson is connected to the Philippines, he has a Filipina mother but FIBA still don't make him as a local.

[@slee2695]

Because both his parents are American citizens..

[@jamesilumin6624]

That's because he's passed the age requirement for Philippine passport, he was also not born or raised in the Philippines which the FIBA was mostly lookin into, so he will not be seen as local

[@tainanking]

he wouldn't have even cared about it if that country didn't come beggining him.

[@larryjones4760]

​@@jamesilumin6624Tony Parker was not born in France too and his parents were both foreign origin he only grew up in france.

[@Flying-Flo]

Tarpey was born in France and speaks French

[@rafaellariosa4815]

My country would have no chance of winning a single game in FIBA tournaments without Jordan Clarkson. But I would rather not have him on our team. He's got Filipino blood in him, but he is a full blown American.

[@Nikosk00]

i am greek, i hate it. its fine if they are only for friendly matches as a sign of gratitude towards them in cases like mike batiste (who won a bunch of euroleagues and played for panathinaikos for a decade) for example but thats about it. might as well add the condition of the speaking the basics of the language of that country. or obviously having grown up in that country

[@Syndromev10]

I can understand naturalisation when a player has been playing in that country for a few years (such as Larkin and Turkey), however Brown playing for Spain is absolutely nuts IMO

[@shinodaprime9182]

But its still not ok... Its a national team, he can play for 10 years in Turkey, he will never be a Turk, and he has no genetic connection to the country.... To me it just shows that the country is either low on talent, or their own people are not interested in playing for the national team or they are very eager to win something at all costs.

[@Syndromev10]

@@shinodaprime9182 so merely falling out of a vagina in a particular country is the measurement of a connection to a country? If someone stays and plays in a country for a number of years, it could be assumed that they at least like/have a connection to that country and culture surely?

[@shinodaprime9182]

@@Syndromev10 If for you giving birth to a child is the same as "falling out of a vagina " then ok my dude..:D OK so lets see how Larkin turkish language skills are since he is there for a number of years. Has he converted to Islam? Second of all he is playing for a club that pays him money... Give him 3 mil per season and he will play anywhere... National teams should not, and don't play for money , but for the respect of THEIR country and for their flag. Again, its a national team, and if have 5+ players that are not from that country, and play for money, then whats the point of national competition..

[@o.j287]

@@Syndromev10 Not necessarily, the majority are in these countries for work, and when they stop playing they return to their country of origin.

[@Syndromev10]

@@o.j287 I'm sure that's the case with some players, but you can't pretend that it's EVERYONE. All I'm saying is there should still be avenues for players who have a genuine connection, regardless of if they were born there or not. It speaks to a broader conversation of what it means to be a citizen, if my mother crosses a boarder and I pop out in a particular country yet spend no time there, how does that give me more connection to a place than someone who has a career spanning multiple years there? Would people rather have a medieval king "birthright" type of scenario? That's sooo reductionist

[@yuki_musha]

On the other hand, Embiid was naturalized by France (as well as his family), making them believe he would play for them, and then by the USA, fucking up France on the way when he announced he'd play for his now second nationality. At least, the American one made sense, but the French one... He speaks French but has never lived nor had he any family there. BTW, and that's a little less known: I indeed said second nationality for the American one because, by Cameroonese law, he can't be Cameroonese and have another nationality and acquiring one makes you automatically lose the Cameroonese nationality. So now, he's only French-American. (note that I'm not talking about sports nationality which is a totally different matter)

[@Desi365]

That's totally incorrect. Cameroon does allows it's citizens to acquire another nationality with no consequences on their Cameroonian citizenship

[@yuki_musha]

​@@Desi365Did I talk about citizenship? No. I only said nationality. Those 2 are different concepts in regard to international law. And also: Law n°68/LF/3 of the 11th june 1968 to set up the Cameroon nationality code: "CHAPTER IV Loss and Forfeiture. A. Loss. Section 31. Cameroon nationality is lost by: a) Any Cameroon adult national who wilfully acquires or keeps a foreign nationality; b) Renunciation under this law; c) any person who, occupying a post in a public service of an international or foreign body, retains that post notwithstanding an injunction by the Cameroonian Government to resign it." Embiid wilfully acquired a foreign nationality. Therefore, he's not Cameroonian anymore. P.S.: Sorry, I wrote "Cameroonese" in my previous coment, but it's "Cameroonian".

[@badaboum2]

@@yuki_musha Embiid acquired French and American citizenship, not nationality. Maybe something got lost in translation,

[@yuki_musha]

@@badaboum2 maybe for the American one, but for the French one, it's the nationality, no doubt about it.

[@badaboum2]

@@yuki_mushaAgain probably something lost in translation, French law doesn't really make a disctinction between nationality and citizenship, and I'm not sure Cameroonian law does either. "In July 2022, Embiid was granted citizenship by France as "a foreigner [...] whose naturalization is of exceptional interest"." Did you read somewhere (if so where?) that Embiid had lost his Cameroonian nationality or are you doing armchair international law here?

[@TheAdrian229]

My dear Lithuanian brothers, Jeremy Julisz Sochan is more polish than American. He played in polish youth programs since he was a little hobbit. His mom and step father are polish, and he lived in polish house in UK. So showing him in the video as an example is plain wrong. Greetings from Poland neighbors 🫡

[@tayloryoung9803]

More Polish idk ... I mean he still never lived in Poland but was born in the US and learned basketball there THough I agree he is 100% legit to represent Poland if he wants Just wonder how you would feel if it was opposite , say a guy growing up in Poland being half Belgian and pgrowing up in poland and even playing in Polish league but choosing to represent Belgium

[@j.r.h.9265]

@@tayloryoung9803 It happened already to the Philippines, when Japan, Guam, Indonesia and Bahrain recruited our players, who also have connections to those places. I see no problem with that since it's their right after all.

[@FKS1946]

It's a confusing rule. We had to naturalize both Luka Garza and Amar Alibegovic in order to play for Bosnia because they were born abroad. While Amar Alibegovic has the most Bosnian name ever and Luka's mom is Bosnian. I believe they should count as Bosnians due to their connection to the country through parents.

[@doubledk5935]

You took a very European perspective. The naturalization is neccessary for an Asian team like Japan to have a big man in their paint. The country simply doesn't have many tall men to hold back centers from America or Europe. This is most likely why FIBA allows it. In basketball you need at least a few guys with size on your team to win.

[@Dzavo2000]

You ever watch Golden State Warriors ? 4 time champions all small lineup. Work with what you got . Figure it out. Make it work to your advantage. Can't fight in the pain learn to shoot 3s. midrange jumpers . floaters to go over big man. Small lineup more athletic , go around the big man. There are ways if there is a will.

[@doubledk5935]

@@Dzavo2000even Golden State hat 6'11 (2.11cm) Kevin Durant on their last Championship team. Before Durant, they had 7'0 (2.15cm) Bogut who averaged 18.4 minutes in the finals. (+Ezeli to get some size on backup) -> Japan needs one tall naturalized player because the country doesn't have many tall men Personally, I would love to have e.g. Singapore host a big basketball event. Without a naturalized tall player on their team there would be no point as they would get dunked on at every possession.

[@j.r.h.9265]

@@Dzavo2000 I will pop the bubble out of your head for you to stop living with your fantasies.

[@hayabusa6943]

Japan requires at least 5 years of residency and to pass the japanese language test. People kept asking me why japan always have a white naturalized player that are not athletic so I said that they are the only ones who pass the requirements. In other countries they have naturalized players that are only tourists in those countries.

[@badaboum2]

The one naturalized player Japan has is barely taller than Yuta Watanabe. And literally the tallest player to ever be drafted in the NBA was Japanese. And what if their national has to suck at basketball, would that really be the end of the world? Should every country just import athletes from wherever to shore up whatever weaknesses they have? What's the point of the Olympics if the gentleman representing France and the gentleman representing Kenya in wrestling were both born, raised and trained in Mongolia?

[@user-ry2ly5qu2y]

how about qatar? almost all of their players dont have any qatari bloods, they were literally full of imports

[@Alvas0907]

This is probably the worst thing in basketball nowdays. The most ridiculous cases are Spain with Lorenzo Brown and Slovenia with Randolph. The worst thing is that Spain has the best domestic league in Europe, and they still had to nationalize the best player?!?!? It's an awful outlook to the whole european basketball, and FIBA ofcourse. As a Serbian, I wouldn't celebrate any medal, if we had any foreign player in our squad. It just doesn't make any sense.

[@rosenvasilev4219]

A caveat to this might be a rule that only Americans playing in the local league are eligible to represent the country. Its not a clear-cut decision for sure if yes or if no. Some countries used it well to popularize the game internally but I think this rule overal brings more to the game than it hurts it. In Europe, Lithuania,Latvia and Serbia are the ones remaining like it is. I think it should stay as it is. Some countries do abuse it but thats life. World is not perfect. Some countries just need to invest more into producing better players . For example Latvia,a team that fumbled big time and failed to qualify for EU finals in 2022 but with recent WC and recent qualifiers, establishes itself as a dark-horse in any competition all without some big names in Europe or NBA . They do this with the absence of its biggest star but with cohesion, pride and identity they are turning heads and are a joy to watch.

[@Ivysparks874]

Naturalization is a symptom of strict eligibility rules. If Fiba does away with it and use the Fifa rules, naturalization would be lessened.

[@markdanlieabueva3718]

We Filipinos are happy with Justin Brownlee, he fully embraced being a Filipino. We had Andray Blatche too and he loved our country as well. 💙❤️🇵🇭

[@stefankovacevic2596]

Lame

[@slee2695]

Your team has no Asians on it...

[@DennDaemon]

​@@slee2695you hate Philippines that much? Why? Who hurt you?

[@edwardgarcia752]

This guy @slee2695 hates Philippines so much that he has negative comments about Philippines in most videos where Philippines is mentioned/showed

[@markdanlieabueva3718]

@@stefankovacevic2596 lame serbians😆

[@Forester800]

It is not strictly good, and not strictly bad.. It is mostly ugly (RIP Eli Wallach - The Ugly one, I was hoping you would show Eli at that segment as an example for your point). It is ugly because of the feelings of product consumers(fans) when watching the games, and all of the internet discussions during the big FIBA tournaments about it. I do not blame players as it is a great experience for them, I do not blame countries as those are Fiba rules and they are playing by them, I do not blame Fiba as they got more quality which they wanted with this rules. I only blame Fiba if they do not change the rules in next 4 years, as the global basketball is already here and benefits are becoming less then the ugliness. I mean South Sudan is in the Olympics, current basketball quality is good enough, and the beauty is in the National teams preparing for three weeks with what they have and making something special.

[@pingvins909]

as a latvian, i was pretty stoked when there were rumors about Mike James joining the national team. but during the crazy 2023 WC run (i think it was) KP, that said in the interview, that a problem with that is that James would've taken the spot of one of our guys. that means that either Zoriks or A.Kurucs or Žagars wouldn't have made the team, and all of them were balling out and were earning contracts in big leauges. Much rather see that than Mike James taking a contested three pointer in the dying seconds of the game

[@slXD100]

and what's the end of this story if youre stoked on Mike James, my man? in year 2250 to have a full blown american team represent latvia because why not? you people who are stoked for these things don't really know the meaning behind national and international competition.

[@robertotampioc7318]

But admin, you have to understand that international basketball is not yet balance in terms of competition especially in Asia and Africa… hiring them will have some competitive balance in international basketball… take look at Jordan, if you took out RHJ, they will be a mediciore… if you took out Bolden in Indonesia, they will be a weak team.. hiring them will not just having a chance but also to improve the promotion of basketball in their respective countries, especially those countries that not too much prioritize basketball.. in a globalization world, naturalization should be not an issue at all… you have an option if you want to take it or not… I understand your take about naturalization but you have also understand that basketball as a sport is what? A niche sport in some of countries.. so having a good national basketball team will have a good chance to popularize the sport into a whole level… example is Indonesia, basketball there is not too popular, but when they beat Philippines in SEAG, the popularity of basketball there become higher, thanks to the addition of Bolden, a former duke player who is undrafted by NBA draft couple of years ago… he makes Indonesian basketball alone become competitive team…

[@jakeoruas8198]

Great Comparison

[@ZoraDelaney]

African-Americans also have ancestral ties to pretty much every country in West Africa.....

[@badaboum2]

Yeah but then you have a case like Embiid who prefers playing for the USA or France than Cameroon, which is even more messed up when you consider he's only where he is thanks to Luc Richard Mbah-a-Moute's efforts to develop basketball in Cameroon.

[@copy2886]

how about other national sports? are they balanced? so you propose that African countries give passports to Fins and Swedes to win in winter Olympics?

[@robertotampioc7318]

@@copy2886 all sports have unbalanced competition.. there are always good and bad teams, this naturalization is one of the only solution short term, since most of those countries have no resources in that sport…

[@utherulrich]

This has also happened in Brazil. For a long time, It was almost Impossible to find a point guard to help Huertas. Then came Larry Taylor. The good thing is that he has an amazing fit with our culture

[@CounterCultureCantCount]

The fact that Lorenzo Brown plays for Spain is still incomprehensible to me.

[@RobertLewis85]

America is a very, very, very diverse nation

[@ssk-_-dotz3773]

For smaller and less prominent basketball playing countries its fine to have naturalized players but for powerhouses it makes no sense. Maybe fiba could do a rule where if your country is ranked 50 and above you can’t have a naturalized player

[@theoneonly259]

Not only does it make no sense - it is utterly disgusting. It is also pathetic. For Team USA to recruit Embiid. It is also embarrassing. Shameful.

[@ssk-_-dotz3773]

@@theoneonly259 yea i agree bro

[@o.j287]

If a player with a father from the country does not obtain a passport from the country before the age of 16, in Fiba he can only play as a naturalized player. If they do what you say, the descendants would have to be set aside so that they can continue playing.

[@ZoraDelaney]

@@theoneonly259 You conveniently left out the part where France (did Embiid even ever live there?) also recruited Embiid. He met all the U.S. citizenship requirements. Embiid chose USA because he's lived in USA almost as long as he ever lived in his native Cameroon, he developed his talents mostly in USA, he met his wife in USA, and his child was born in USA.

[@thekevmedia]

I have been covering indian basketball for sometime now.. We have the same case like you guys where our government doesn't allow dual citizenship, this issue has been angering a lot of football fans and a few basketball fans. There are some countries who have great talent locally and can fill the spots on the roster. for us we are in somewhat of transition phase where several young guns are vying for the top spot, we can be competitive if the government allows dual citizenship... for eg we need more bigs in our line-up we do have a few but nothing like say amritpal or satnam, those bulky bully bigs if our coach wants to run our offense from the post.... the oci, nri and players with indian roots in other countries can help us fill that but we cannot because of this... The point it mentioned in the video its good for some countries and bad for some...in our case if we don't have a league then need naturalised players but if the league comes then we might be better of with "foreign talent"

[@aubinaps1427]

They should have the same rules as for World Rugby: The residency requirement is 60 consecutive months (effective from 31 December 2020 - was 36 months) Players with 10 years of cumulative residency in a country could also become eligible to play for that country (effective 10 May 2017). I think 36 consecutive months is already a good thing but just signing papers and joining the fun is a shame!

[@estongtutong4915]

Jordan Clarkson has Filipino blood. He can't be considered a local player according to FIBA rules because he did not secure a Philippine passport before he turned 16

[@kiroolioneaver8532]

What's crazy is Cameroon lacking a serious team which would be competitive with Joel Embiid and Pascal Siakam. Now Embiid has to play for the USA. I do think FIBA benefits though if say Kobe played for Italy or Kyrie Irving for Australia. As for the US having a surplus of talent, I wish USA Basketball (like Hockey Canada for ice hockey) had a tournament like Australia does for rugby league (State of Origin) where different regions of the US compete against each other in a national tournament. The Qatari soccer team has proven that naturalization can work. Before a lot of their players were foreign born (ditto Saudi Arabia) but now more and more players playing for the national team are born and/or raised in Qatar.

[@theoneonly259]

Why would Kyrie play for Australia when he can make Team USA? Plus even though he was born here he has nothing to do with Australia. Being part of a national team does seem to raise the stock of mid and fringe level NBA talent - that is why pretty much all Australian NBA players outside of Ben Simmons make themselves available for the World Cup.... I mean lets be serious. But representing Australia aint doing nothing for the stock of a guy like Kyrie. Nothing good anyway.

[@kiroolioneaver8532]

@@theoneonly259 It's not for Kyrie's benefit (though he wouldn't have to pay for anythign in Australia if he ever visited) Kyrie would help grow the game globally by being a high profile player as well as making international basketball more competitive by making Australia more competitive

[@theoneonly259]

​@@kiroolioneaver8532 Australia is top 5 in Fiba rankings. Was top 3 before early exit at last World Cup. We got Ben Simmons, Josh Giddey, Dante Exum as well as Mathew Dellavedova who are all world class PGs. Patty Mills can play PG. We also got hungry local talent PGs like Will McDowell White who I would be happy to send to an Olympics or World Cup. We have a heap of NBA level wings with NBA bodies like Dyson Daniels, Josh Green, veteran Joe Ingles. And Im not so sure any of those guys are better than Mitch Creek. We also like to include a sniper who is generally Chris Goulding but DJ Vasiljevic is knocking on the door. Australian Basketball developed all those guys. We are ranked top 5. The best way for a nation to become competitive is development. At this point in the development of Australian basketball the inclusion of a player like Kyrie - who we did not develop - would detract from our achievements more than contribute to them because the validation of the basketball development systems that produced our world class national mens basketball program is far more important than any short term advantage or success that the addition of the imported talents of a superstar like Kyrie could bring us. So it would be better for us to give that spot to NBL players like Goulding, White, Creek or Vasiljevic than Irving. Even if he does have citizenship. Because we didnt develop him. Kyries father did contribute to Australian basketball by coming here as an import and playing here. I do not think he played at the top level - I think he played in the state league SEABL. Kyrie was born here while we was playing here. But they didnt stay long. Other Americans who came here did - like Ben SImmons' father - who layed with osh Giddeys father. And Dante Exums father. Dyson Daniels father was another SEABL player. There is a massive community of NBL and lower league US imports that came to Australia in the 70s, 80s and 90s and never left. Coaches too. Along with the local basketball talent this community has been able to turn our small nation into a basketball powerhouse despite the fact that basketball is not even a major sport in Australia. The NBA Global Academies are based on our AIS/Centre of Excellence Model. The GLeague Team Ignite only exists as a response to the NBLs Next Star Program. Australian basketball development systems are a model for all nations to follow - including USA. I find it highly insulting for you to suggest that we need Kyrie Irving to be more competitive. Top 5. Top 3 until recently. We are coming for number 1.

[@ZoraDelaney]

There are infrastructure reasons why Embiid and Siakam would hesitate to play for Cameroon though, which need to be taken into account.

[@gabepizza]

@@ZoraDelaney lol yeah. They're have to fly couch!

[@DeletedMemoriez]

well dorsey's grandma is greek if im not mistaken

[@user-wk2uw6tn1t]

Yes but because of an agreement between FIBA and the Hellenic Basketball Federation when he was teenager he plays as naturalized.

[@Kill_Bill_007]

His mother if Greek.

[@alvincreatives3974]

The problem is without these naturalized players the competition will be much imbalance and basketball games will be boring to watch since the results will be predictable.. We'll see more of lopsided games.. And it will not be good for basketball globally.. FIBA wants to compete with football.. And they want to have basketball as many nations as possible. Imagine how will people from a country that is not really into basketball be interested in the sport if their national team is being beaten badly every game..

[@copy2886]

are you bored with football, hockey or marathons (or other long runs) since you also can predict

[@slXD100]

nonsense comment. the best basketball countries in the world are very well competitive even against the USA.

[@wadek798]

Karl Anthony Town is Dominican as well as American. His mother is Dominican. and he was already a Dominican citizen

[@fransfrans8538]

The Belgium team has had some Americans doing it, also some Americans who stayed here after playing in Belgium. But in the last years there havent been one.

[@gabepizza]

You're showing Carlik Jones when saying no connection. I read that he does have South Sudan Roots. And where's Josh Hawkinson? He was one of the best naturalized players helping Japan beat Finland and Markkanen

[@bryx170]

Hawkinson's Japanese citizenship is valid, given that he really plays in Japanese B-League for many years and deeply connected to Japan and can speak Japanese.

[@gabepizza]

@@bryx170 not saying it's not valid just that it's weird he wasn't mentioned considering he was one of the best and most impactful nationalized players at the WC

[@bryx170]

@@gabepizza exactly the point. He made Japan great, as well

[@ZoraDelaney]

@@gabepizza He wasn't mentioned because Euro folks are worried about BLACK American players making all of these countries' rosters. Hawkinson is white, so he gets a pass in their eyes.....

[@hayabusa6943]

That`s because the video is about the abuse of the naturalization rules. Japan requires at least 5 year residency and to pass the japanese language exam. People kept asking me why japan always have white naturalized players while other countries have dominant athletic african american imports I always tell them that they are the ones passing the requirements. Other countries naturalize tourists but japan`s rules are not easy for naturalization.

[@Fenerbahce.Forever]

Naturalization is fine. But we need a really strict process. In my opinion, players who played for thay country's club teams at least 5 full season should only be available for naturalization. I mean the people of the country and the other basketball players should know the players name first lol

[@user-ms6hx8kz1u]

theres already a strict process which you cant play as local if you hadnt secure a passport before turning 16 and getting a passport is along process which is why kyle anderson cant play as local despite having chinese ancestry

[@valpix7007]

It's happening a lot in other sports too. I'm an ice hockey fan obsessed with the international game and seeing the UAE with a team that was like half Eastern European pip out a basically-entirely-homegrown Belgian squad to promotion last year pissed me off. Ditto with China squatting on a spot like two divisions above their actual talent level because they brought in a ton of North Americans (I'm more fine with the ones with Chinese heritage like Brandon Yip and the Foo brothers, but Jake Chelios has zero business being there). my thought is basically. if you have some sort of tangible connection like heritage, or if you have played in that nation for a while, that's one thing. but if you have zero connection you have zero business

[@don_kandon6006]

Most ridicilous is that Brazdeikis (born in Lithuania, both parents Lithuanians), moved to canada when was 3 years old, and because he played for like u17 of canada, now is naturalized player on Lithuanian roster :D Meanwhile Slovenia opens euroleague stats page, sorts by center position, and signs Randolph (African american) in like 2015, and Tobey (white american) in like 2019, 2 weeks before tournaments. For brazdeikis, it took like 6 months to get passport, thats how hard it is in Lithuania. When it comes to actual naturalization, i would say, at a minimum player with 0 ties to country, has to play at a minimum 3 years there for local club. I would say 5 years would be good.

[@jundolor]

Fun fact: The USA (which has provided most of the naturalized players in internation countries) will be fielding in Joel Embiid (born Cameroon) as a naturalized player. The USA has also had naturalized players in the past: Tim Duncan (born Virgin Island), and Hakeem Olajuwon (born Nigeria).

[@patrikkondic83]

I really don‘t like naturalization of foreign players with no connection to that country. IMO this hinders the development of young talent. We see the same with Club Basketball. Partizan for example, when they reached the Final 4 they had 2 americans, one Serb with the australian citizenship and Jan Vesely from Czech republic. All other guys were from serbia. After that, you g players like bogdan bogdanovic, vladimir lucic, Milan Macvan and many more got the chance to play. Same with zvezda a couple years ago. Now a promising prospect as Tristan Vukčević don‘t get any playing time but their starting 5 consists of 4 foreigners who play heavy minutes. There is a good amount of talent coming up but they rarely get a chance to play in the euro league for Zvezda or partizan. The top prospects go to Mega now and that‘s the reason that Mega provided the NBA with the 3rd most NBA players from any College/Club.

[@gh0stm0nst3r6]

This topic sort of reminds me of one of the loopholes Spain just couldn't seem quit using to get away with doping. They found out how to create blind spots and ran (figuratively and literally).

[@sachievargas4551]

Naturalization is okay imo because it gives everyone the chance to compete and at the same time giving that nation an opportunity for Basketball to grow, well mainly cos of success, is it unfair? Yes especially to nations that has a strict rule about it. Still, i don't see it as bad. Peeps are migrating to different countries for better opportunities, and why is it different in this situation? One of my cousin became be a Canadian citizen because he sees a future there as a Medical Practicioner, pretty reasonable for me.

[@jaybeezy58]

It seems like international countries need to invest more in youth basketball & then they won't need to add Americans to every national team

[@robertotampioc7318]

It’s not easy especially if your country doesn’t have resources.. and basketball as a sport is not big in most countries…

[@andreitaker3527]

I really thought they were strict about this because a few years ago my country can't field 3-4 players because they didn't get a passport before turning 16 years old even though they have been playing in the local leagues and one of their parents is fully blooded citizen of my country.

[@mgns8058]

If we take out naturalised players with atleast roots for the country which is acceptable in my opinion, what national teams from europe are without a naturalised player with no roots? Just lithuania, serbia,germany, france and italy right?

[@badaboum2]

Technically France has 1 player who was born outside of it who had no prior roots in France (Ouattara), but since he got there when he was 3 it's safe to say he wasn't naturalized for basketball reasons.

[@duke5169]

Generally I'm supportive of naturalization, but only if there is at least a loose connection between country and player. So either direct ancestors being citizens or a not too short stay in the country. Americans just adopting random nationalities seems kinda bad.

[@Posesso]

8:43 I love you for that Increasing the chances of more people or more stars (one thing causes the another) being in the stuff we like is, I think, actually the motor, what makes humanity roll. And makes uncountable small invisible efforts worth, and medium sized with significant effort, more bearable. (I do that with juggling) You rock, to me at least.

[@ios8720]

Walkup wasn t naturalized for the national team . he was first given the passport in order Olympiacos to open a spot at the greek league because of restriction of 6 greek players and 6 foreigners. He also plays in Greece for three yeas at Olympiacos . Because Tyler dorsey was unavailable this summer walkup was called . Tyler Dorsey has a Greek mother and he was eligible for full Greek citizenship but because they were on a rush in order him to play with the young greek team he was just "naturalized" . Naz Mitrou long has a Greek mother as well and now plays In Greece .

[@simpletechreviews1388]

Exactly. Walkup might not have Greek ancestry but the other players mentioned do.

[@perkelegenda]

Hats down to Latvia, Lithuania, Serbia... no naturalized, no immigrants, no USA money grabbers... You play with what ya got❤❤❤

[@gabepizza]

Argentina, Canada

[@badaboum2]

France too, but I have a guess why all you lads leave it out.

[@Piechu19]

I'll use Polish NT as an example for my opinion. Sochan is half Polish. These players should be treated like regular players. Podziemski has Polish roots and wants to play for Poland. These players should be treated as naturalized players if they obtain citizenship or regular players if they have documents and can recover citizenship. Petrasek plays for Polish club and lives in Poland for a few years. He obtained citizenship - he can play for NT as a naturalized player. I'd accept 1 such a player for a NT. Slaughter has no connection at all. He shouldn't have been able to obtain citizenship and play for NT. That's the perfect solution for me.

[@user-ms6hx8kz1u]

slaughter is half filipino

[@slXD100]

what about immigrants who would come to poland with 2 years of age? or 5? 10? 14? and turn out to be great sports prospects? them getting citizenship is naturalisation as well. what if 5 of these turn out to be NBA calibre players, you'd allow only max 1 to play for your country because they're naturalised? isn't that kinda unfair? considering they basically were raised and spent the vast majority of their lives in poland? now maybe that will never happen in polands case but it happens in the states all the time since a lot of people migrate there. Embiid going there with 15/16 is an example.

[@Piechu19]

@@slXD100 @slXD100 you're right it's unfair, but there have to be some clear rules. I think people ages 2 or 5 would have citizenship of a country they live in to be citizens, not to play bball for the NT, so I wouldn't count them as naturalised. Maybe that would be some kind of compromise. They wanna be citizens of that country and representing it is just one of many patriotic accents. Embiid is a good example of someone who should be treated like a naturalised player for the States. He's a Cameroonian who moved to the USA just to play basketball. He has nothing in common with the States. He just wants to play for the best NT to win the Olympics. As I said before, for me NT should represent a nation, so the American team shouldn't consist of Luka, Giannis, Joker or Embiid cause they're not Americans. If all of them wanted to play for the States, the coach should choose only one of them - the best or the most suitable, his decision 😅

[@slXD100]

@@Piechu19 Embiid wanting to play for USA due to winning olympics is very true. at the same time he has a kid though who is 100% american, played in the states since he is 16 and basically acquired and formed his skillset in america and through american help. + he has been living there for 13+ years now and most likely will spend the rest of his days there too. if we look at naturalised players who have no ties to the country ancestraly, Embiid probably has a good case to speak for himself considering all these factors that I just mentioned. I'm just saying it's not fair to say he has nothing in common with the states since he learned to play there and has spent almost half his life there, I would call Embiid an american at this point. something I cant call Giannis Jokic or Luka no matter what, their storylines, upbringing, especially connected to basketball is just different. Embiid was discovered in cameroon, sure, but he didn't acquire and develope his skillset in his home country. however, the problem that I've always had with naturalised players or even players who were born and raised in said country but have different roots is.. they don't play with heart for their country (most of the time). Giannis is a great exception of someone who really wants to represent greece and is fully ready to risk it all and win a title for greece. the vast majority of such cases is the opposite though and most of these guys would play for their country of origin if they had the same advantages as they have in the country they chose to play for, as example these advantages being potential title success, MONEY or the benefits of having that specific citizenship. but what about all the secondary or even third option USA players who are great enough to play for other countries, even better than anyone other countries have to offer? they can either sit back and watch their peers who are better players win for the good ole US&A or they can try their luck and go abroad, be naturalised and play for a country they have no connection with or just went there to earn a buck for a few years... it's complicated, but honestly I don't want to see every national team have a guy named Booker, Clarkson or Walkup because they weren't good enough to be first choice for their country and want to go make money abroad/gather accolades, it just loses the spirit of what the olympics and international competitions are about. at that point we might as well just merge into one global associations with different leagues/divisions and everyone has a team of their choosing to root for.

[@benjaminplut9448]

Naturalisation can make sense, I am from Slovenia. Take Omić and Begić, 2 naturalised players that have a connection with Slovenia, playing here and living here at various stages of their careers, or even Ariel Mcdonald who is american but played here and even speaks Slovene. Then there’s Randolph and Tobey, who were both naturalised just cause we needed someone in their position which even with the benefit they bring to Slovenia shouldn’t be allowed.

[@predragnikolic2293]

Dončić, Dragić... What they are?

[@benjaminplut9448]

@@predragnikolic2293 normal players obviously, they are born and raised in Slovenia and only have a Slovene passport, no matter what some people claim they are, they are Slovenes

[@slXD100]

@@benjaminplut9448 they definitely are slovenes, but they're also serbs, both. and I gurantee you that if Luka's parents didn't get divorced (meaning if he wasn't left to his mothers devices), he would've played for serbia most likely.

[@benjaminplut9448]

@@slXD100 You say that like his dad would have strongly encouraged playing for Serbia which he never did, also his dad played for the Slovene national team

[@slXD100]

@@benjaminplut9448 well there would've been some influence, better relations too. regardless of encouragement, Luka stayed with his mom and even though he got support from his dad too, she went to him to spain and eventually the USA. should Luka's kids play for the USA because they're born there? well maybe they won't be basketball prospects but it would be cool if they were to play for slovenia. I mean Luka's father was in touch with Djordjevic to convince Luka to play for serbia, so let's just say the encouragement from his dads side wasn't lacking whatsoever, now if there wasn't a divorce.. this would've panned out differently.

[@Kill_Bill_007]

What about Domantas Sabonis? It makes no sense for a player born and raised in USA with Greek parents to be a naturalized player with Greece under FIBA rules, but for a Lithuanian player born and raised in USA and Spain with Lithuanian parents to not be counted as a naturalized player for Lithuania under FIBA rules. Such discrepancies make no sense at all. You can't compare situations like Dorsey, Koufos, Calathes, Mitrou-Long to Walkup, and you can't compare situations like Walkup to ones like Lorenzo Brown or Bo McCalebb. Dorsey, Koufos and Mitrou-Long all had Greek parents and Calathes had Greek grandparents. Walkup has no Greek parents or grandparents, so that is obviously a much different situation entirely. Then you can't compare someone like Walkup to a case like Lorenzo Brown, because Walkup has been playing for some years in Greece. In a case like Lorenzo Brown, it is basically just like a national team signing free agents. There really shouldn't be any problem for players to play for national teams of countries that their parents are from, and actually FIBA is way too strict with those rules, in making that only one such player can play for a national team, meaning the other ones can't, even if they want to. So actually FIBA is too strict with that. For the cases like Walkup or Brown, then counting them as naturalized of course is right, but there should be some rules, instead of none like now. So Walkup should be a good example. For FIBA Champions League they have a rule that you have to not only have citizenship of the country of the team you play in to not count as a foreign player, but you also have to have been in the country or played in the county for at least 3 years as well. FIBA should add a similar rule like that for national teams. Why have the rule just for club leagues, but not also for national teams? So if someone like Walkup wanted to play for Greece and they wanted him, it would be OK after 3 years, not right away. That's the rule they have in FIBA Champions League. That way, Spain couldn't have signed Brown basically like a pro club signing a free agent.

[@user-ms6hx8kz1u]

true.....they only complain when things dont go their way

[@ratedpending]

Sabonis registered his eligibility before the deadline (16th birthday)

[@copy2886]

Domantas Sabonis is a Lithuanian

[@copy2886]

some 25 years ago 1 or 2 players were allowed to be legionnaires in the European club basketball, now national teams became clubs that were two decades ago....

[@Assen87]

I cant even imagine Bulgarian national team without an American anymore :D

[@rafaellariosa4815]

They're gonna ruin FIBA basketball too.

[@ZoraDelaney]

Blame the teams. Don't hate because USA is so skilled that teams around the world are clamoring for its services. Besides, most of these guys have ancestral ties (mixed-race), or played for years in a country's league.

[@rafaellariosa4815]

@@ZoraDelaney most of these naturalized players are black. It’s about athleticism for most of these countries. And if the USA is so damn skilled, how did they do again this last time that they competed?

[@punchdreadnought8101]

​​@@rafaellariosa4815 but look at Americans in Euroleague. Coaches give them plenty of minutes, more minutes than good native players. Cases like Mike James, Walkup, Devin Booker, and all those Americans on Turkish and Israeli teams. You guys let Americans take over FIBA too lmao.

[@user-ms6hx8kz1u]

ruin or you just want a european and usa to always win the competition....asian teams always at the bottom...with naturalizations ,asian teams can compete with the powerhouse teams

[@rafaellariosa4815]

@@user-ms6hx8kz1u I’m Asian myself. But if winning means adding a player that isn’t even from my country, it kinda cheapens the whole thing

[@niki8280]

Even the United States naturalized Joel Embiid. They've been doing for decades as well.

[@Kill_Bill_007]

Joel Embid, Rony Seikaly, Tim Duncan, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, by comparison this is even much worse than Spain with Brown's case.

[@tayloryoung9803]

@@Kill_Bill_007 at least embiid moved to the US at 16 = > 14 years ago, Time Duncan ??

[@Kill_Bill_007]

@@tayloryoung9803 I meant worse than Brown's case in the way of powerful national teams adding players just to pile on, even when they can win gold medals without needing to do so.

[@tayloryoung9803]

@@Kill_Bill_007 You have a point :)

[@hayabusa6943]

They are already super strong and they still use naturalized players.

[@zerevv]

I don't have a problem if the players actually have family link with the country or married the locals (let's assume it's a real love marriage because if not that's a whole different can of worms) but I don't like it when the player have 0 link with the country I don't have a problem with KAT, li kaier (kyle anderson) & jordan clarkson but embiid for USA is a total crap well at least they have a limit for that

[@bkak2245]

To be fair to Embiid he has been in the USA since 16, and the reason wht he even became good in basketball was playing in the US

[@ZoraDelaney]

Embiid DOES have a family link to the U.S. His son was born in USA (U.S. citizenship by birth).

[@Gharbieh88]

In my country (Lebanon) we used to have naturalized players mainly because we lacked tall people In our population, 90% of our naturalized players were to fill the gap and played in the center position, and they used to play in the Lebanese League. And the process was hard, it needed to be signed by the president of the country. Now it’s much easier and we can change naturalized players twice per year, and the players have agents just for this, and some of them like the last one never played in our league and with our national team players. Teams are abusing this rule because they can. But instead of being a game of your national player's talent, it’s now more focused on the naturalized player.

[@bkak2245]

Like most case with Asian countries lol they need tall players nd fills it in with naturalize players

[@copy2886]

So, Lithuania should naturalize all runners from Kenya? And we will be the best runners in the world. Is this make sense to you?

[@Gharbieh88]

@@copy2886how is this what i meant? I didn’t even say my opinion if i’m with or against.

[@argeHu]

I guess, so liberal naturalization is connected also with appearance of mixed raced national teams. Now many French, German, Belgian, Spanish, Greek players are of African decent so one more American player doesn't look so out of place. For example Lessort is from Martinique and Embid from Cameroon. Both are French colonies and have only peripheral connection to France, but because Martinique is current French colony, Lessort is a 'local' player while Embid is object for naturalization, although both of them has same connection with France.

[@bloodyspider8]

That's definitely a guess you are making; Cameroon, while it has been indeed a French (and British and German) colony in the past, is an independent country. Martinique, on the other hand, is a French overseas territory, the people of Martinique are as French as anyone from the French mainland. So, obviously, Lessort is considered local because he is actually local. Now, as a French person, I find it hilarious how the French consulate in the US went above and beyond to grant citizenship to Embiid while he's as French as the gruyère cheese and has little to no connection to him ending up deciding to play for the USA. About his case, I feel sorry for the Cameroonian basketball fans and clearly understand their anger.

[@Desi365]

The island of Martinique is NOT a colony, it's a French territory like any other and citizens there are like any other anywhere. Martinique voted in the 40s to stay in the Republic. Get informed before talking please, thank you.

[@argeHu]

I know that very well. My point was, it is not an ethnic French territory@@Desi365

[@Desi365]

@@argeHu There is no such thing as "ethnic French". French is not and has never been an ethnicity.

[@badaboum2]

Martinique has been part of France for almost 400 years, longer than the country where basketball was invented has existed. Cameroon was a French colony for a total of 44 years (1914-1960). Really not all that similar. Lessort has also lived in mainland France since he was 16, Embiid never even set foot in France.

[@realalbertan]

There are entire national teams of expat players in IIHF. Jamaica's entire team lives in Canada and doesn't have single sheet of ice.

[@wavejhuztin27]

1. Most of the comments wants the naturalize players to have anything related to the country. In short, if you have a descent but didn't secure a password before 16, you will still be considered as a foreigner to your own country. 2. People saying that naturalized players ruined the Fiba, but even team USA has naturalized players? besides, Only one player can be considered as naturalized players per game, If they are considered Local Then they really have connection to the country before turning 16. Other considered locals live in that country for a decade so they literally have connection to that country. 3. Fiba allows all team to have naturalized players, it's not like only select teams can do it. Besides, Have you guys saw a team reach top 5 in the Fiba Rankings with naturalized players? 4. Some teams with naturalized player still losing. Some teams without naturalized players can still beat those teams who has. 5. Other power house teams hating those team with one american/african naturalized players as if they won't face a full american / african team if they go that far in the tournament. 6. One naturalized player can certainly help to improved the level of competition in the other regions. You don't want teams to have naturalized players, So you want those teams to Look like Kids playing in the World Tournament?

[@emsan3684]

If I owned a natural team. I would throw money on front office. International Coach, Scout, Trainer and Analyst. They would fit in any group in any situation. But that's not the case 😂

[@nikostripylas4218]

I am against naturalization but dorsey s mother or grandmother is greek

[@Kill_Bill_007]

His mother is Greek.

[@christianoster_sole]

If you grow up in a country or have that nationality by birth then you should be able to play for that country. That’s it. No other excuses. Even in the fourth division of German Basketball you need to play several years in youth teams otherwise you are a foreigner, why should it be easier to play for a national team, than in amateur sports?

[@karstenhanel8481]

I think that Germany is world champion without neutralize players

[@GGG-ev9kr]

Jordan Clarkson has Filipino blood, His mother's family is from Pampanga, Philippines. He just didn't have a Filipino Passport before he turned 16 yrs old.

[@nemanjaradovanovic8033]

Make a limit of NBA players, and USA would call their American players, and the rest wouldn't want to risk not playing for team USA by choosing another nation.

[@fbiopenup6534]

In my opinion naturalization only makes sense when that player either grew up in that country or straight up lived for 10+ years in that country. Anything other than that really doesn't make sense to me tbh, if you cannot even speak the language of the country you're playing for, you don't deserve to be there. Simple as.

[@gabepizza]

How about if one of your parents are from that country? Like KAT

[@fbiopenup6534]

@@gabepizza Oh yh ofc, completely forgot about that.

[@Nikosk00]

100%

[@Dzavo2000]

How do they even fill out the forms for citizenship when they cant read Cyrillic, Al-abjadiyah or other forms of writing and they want to represent that country ?

[@paulvicentevcurimao5596]

If only we can consider mixed players who were unable to get their other parents' heritage passport after reaching 21. Unfortunately, FIBA is too strict, as in super strict on these matters. We have a lot of players who wished to play but were unable to get a passport before 18.

[@richo1234]

I think FIBA should use FIFA's eligibility rules:- 1). Must have at least one parent or grandparent from the country; or 2). Must be born in the country; or 3). Lived in the country for 5 years. Allowing some random American to join for any other reason doesn't feel like a National Team.