The Blinking Lights That Control A Power Plant - Startup and Sync of two giant turbine generators.

[@wrtlpfmpf]

One of our professors once told us a nice story. There was a power plant which went online controlled by a computer which decided to connect the generator 180° out of phase. The generator liked that so much that it jumped 2 metres up. Unfortunately the clearance above it was less than that so it effectively demolished the building.

[@mikixyz123]

So basically it exploded?

[@Huvada]

I just looked up if I could find the story and I found out that the terminology for this fault is called out-of-phase synchronization... OOPS for short...

[@dangoldbach6570]

Did you see the video about the Aurora tests? They simulated a cyber attack on the automatic syncing controller and tricked it into coming in 180 out, it ripped the Genset to shreds.

[@Huvada]

@@dangoldbach6570 damn, i was able to find that experiment, don’t want to be in a room with that happening to a generator. :p

[@gravelydon7072]

That actually happened in a large power plant and it was more than 2 meters. It was caused by the 3 phase wiring not being the same between the grid and the generator. Grid Vs Generator, guess which wins.

[@kobi399]

Im a lineman in Europe and that bit about hearing the 50hz humm (or 60h in your case) in your dreams was too real XD

[@davidgrisez]

Wow that is a very old synchroscope. Before I retired I was a Steam Plant Operator for Los Angeles DWP operating large steam boilers and steam turbine generator units. I synchronized power plant units a number of times during my career. It was easy to match the generator voltage to the line voltage. However when the steam turbine was near synchronous speed it took a few minutes of adjusting the turbine speed using the turbine governor to get the synchroscope rotating slowly in the fast direction and then close the unit circuit breaker when the synchroscope was needle was pointing straight up. I once heard a generator circuit breaker closed when the synchroscope showed not synchronized. This is bad for the generator. The generator let out a loud bang and shook the floor when the electrical grid suddenly pulled the generator into synchronism.

[@robertpendzick9250]

Yup, when visiting power plants that's the way we were told syncing occurred. Vibrate the building. They operators said they could tell when a 'newbie' was doing it as the vibration was bigger.

[@nopegaming2117]

Ive heard in worst case either the turbine or generator can explode, how true is that?

[@engineeringdisillusion]

That's called "dirac synching"

[@patrickpeck52]

One of the stations I worked at (many years ago) had a 20MW unit that had no synchronization protection. If you were slightly off, the floor shook, and the Plant Manager, whose office was near the exciter end of the unit, would come up to the operating floor and chew out the operator. If the operator did it more than once, a different job was in his future!

[@gravelydon7072]

@@nopegaming2117 A very costly truth if it is too far out of synch.

[@dryroasted5599]

I used to do this every third night (or whoever was on shift) when I was in the Air Force, operating a Prime-Power diesel plant overseas. One genny was enough to run the system usually, but they had very short maintenance intervals because they were so old (40+ yrs.) Once they were synced, you had to carefully feed power (throttle) to the oncoming unit until it had the load, then disconnect and shut down the first one. Pretty exciting, because if you screwed up, you could drop them both offline and shut down the entire site. Then everybody would come running!

[@gravelydon7072]

I use to operate two Detroit Diesel units that belonged to the US Army Corps of Engineers. We most of the time didn't bother to synch them when we switched them as we had nothing that really would be harmed it they went offline for a few seconds. It just meant that you had to go back and start all the fans and water pumps again. Once we automated, that changed. Because then we had two new gensets but they could not be synched. As soon as a water pump shut down, the main engines would also shutdown if we didn't get them back on within a minute. Which then meant the main pumps were down for 15 minutes while they went thru a complete shutdown and restart startup cycle. If we went offline, people didn't come running, our phones started ringing. And nothing is worse than a 123 db phone alarm siren at 0100 in the morning.

[@jimharris9394]

"Opening the wicket gate" gives a whole new meaning to the British phrase "batting on a sticky wicket"!

[@mwiz100]

Given I enjoy all things electricity and also mechanical etc this whole series has been a unfettered delight. Thank you good sir for this series and sharing this all with us!

[@Physicsduck]

I am sincerely thankful you're here and enjoying it. :) These are pretty unusual videos, and I'm just starting to build an audience. :) Please tell your friends!

[@d455ave]

It's interesting to see this. I had imagined hooking up my 45KW generator to the grid, and backfeeding. NOT that I would actually do it, for numerous reasons. But using the lights was exactly how I figured I could tell when to close the switch.

[@dfunited1]

I've done this (supervised) with diesel generators a couple of times for emergency training. The building was so loud I never got to hear the sync happen. Thank you for posting and whatever witchcraft the algorithm used to bring me here.

[@ronblack7870]

back in college in 82 i had a summer job for a power co. i was an intern for 2 engineers. we had a field visit to a nuclear power station that was expanding from 4 units to 8. i can't remember why but we were looking at the backup gas turbine generators t5 Mw each. i remember on the wall a huge clock like 3 ft diameter marked from 58 to 62 hz..

[@ocsrc]

Amazing seeing these old display gauges I remember seeing a power plant built in 1920s and still using the original gauges and controls

[@user2C47]

If it ain't broke (or otherwise unusable), don't fix it. This control system is still very much functional, and will probably continue to be until the entire plant becomes fully automated.

[@mikefochtman7164]

Lot of steam plants have 'synch-check' relays as well. These are interlocked with the output breaker such that it won't close if freq/volt aren't matched and in-phase. One plant I know always synched manually, and yet another used a 'speed-matching' feature of the governor and let the system automatically synch. Different operators, different methods.

[@BigKandRtv]

Fantastic! I got chill bumps when the building started resonating.

[@steviebboy69]

I found this very interesting to watch, and that was a scary thought about what you mentioned in a comment, get this wrong and you could launch a 30 Ton generator across the room. This to me sounds like one of those Binaural beat meditation things, by the way.

[@fastst1]

Thanks for the electricity, please send more! Got to tinker with 2 CD generators, 10kw, tied them 3ph and got some practice getting them to sync with just the lights and a vernier.

[@patrickmoore1017]

We always close the generator breaker in with the synch scope moving slow in the fast direction, like your second synch, never slow in the slow direction like your first synch. In that way, there is less of a chance to slip a pole, with the exciter at lower settings when synching.

[@patrickmoore1017]

@@liam3284 with the synch scope moving in the fast direction, clockwise, that means my generator is slightly faster frequency wise than the grid. So as the generator breaker closes, the system won’t have to “drag” the generator up to speed, the generator will kind of fall in place if you will with minimum current and voltage spikes, and less stress on the rotor and stator windings.

[@Weed_Gato]

@@patrickmoore1017it also saves you from a torque reversal shredding your gen

[@sir.richardarmstrong3rd759]

@5:00 that is such a peaceful sound.

[@peterjszerszen]

At first, I thought you were about to have a bad day when that gauge went past "fast" and started doing loops. If I saw that (as a layperson), I would have been running toward the door to get the heck out of there.

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

Heh. These gauges show phase, not frequency. If the generator is 1Hz too fast then the gauge rotates at 1Hz (in the fast direction) meaning it rotates once per second. There is probably a separate gauge (not shown) which shows the frequency, and once the frequency is really close, they use the synchroscope (this gauge) to dial it in even closer.

[@Calico5string1962]

I worked in a Co-gen plant back in the late '80's/early '90's. It was a NG-fueled Waukesha piston engine w/ 1 MW peak capacity (although we ran at about 85% continuous). The plant also produced steam and chilled water for the plant processes. We ran continuously, M-F, with weekends off for any needed maintenance. Basically, a peak-shaving plant, while also making needed process heating & cooling. Anyway... we always sync'ed our gen to the utility when the sync-meter was rotating in the FAST direction. In this way, the GenSet was "coming into" phase instead of "going out" of phase, and thus, it was easier on (less instantaneous stress) to the prime-mover & GenSet when it did sync. It's easier to "pull up" than to "pull back". The utility grid is considered the "infinite grid", especially in respect to our "puny" 850kW generator. 😂😂 Great video! Brings back fond memories of the sight & sounds of our plant, and all the work that my partner ("Uncle Bill") and I did to keep it up (we had 99.8% up-time). Great stuff.👍

[@jdos2]

Loved seeing this- thank you- reminds me of the sync lights on the 727- where flight engineers had to sync 3 AC units.

[@TheEmeraldMenOfficial]

Cool

[@gratefulzenz1]

we had these same gauges in the 1954 vintage coal plt. i worked in. We always sync. just slightly in the fast direction 100 mw units

[@orbitingeyes2540]

That beat gets faster as the building starts to spin and lifts off for orbit. 😅 The wicket contactor and pump sound like you're firing phasers. 😂

[@sindotj]

I read this 2 light method of synchronisation in college, great to see in action.

[@andrewtkac6596]

Can you explain the beat frequency between the two generators with both synced and tied to the grid? Thank you.

[@Physicsduck]

Yes, but not here in text. I'll do a whole video on it for you. :) It's.....complicated.

[@Sine1040]

@@Physicsduck Different number of poles on the generators?

[@andyfeimsternfei8408]

Zero, when two generators are synced there is zero frequency difference. When they are synced with the grid, they run at 60 hertz with zero difference regardless of the output. In fact, the generator will become a motor running at 60 hertz if the wicket gates are closed.

[@j4891]

@@andyfeimsternfei8408 They are talking about the sound of the frames ringing.

[@HenryOCarmichaelSmith]

perhaps they are at the same frequency but out of phase with each other?

[@joshuapk9808]

I've watched a TON of "generator sync" videos on KZbin just because. Usually, when the operator closes "the big switch", the syncroscope is still rotating clockwise very slowly. To my uneducated brain, this means that the generator is still *just a little faster* than the grid (i.e. 61hz vs 60hz) and when the "big switch" closes, the generator will try to "push against" the grid at 61hz; the resistance of the grid regulates the speed downwards so it's 60hz but that extra effort is actually what's pushing the voltage onto the grid. Here it looks like you close the "big switch" when it's standing still or maybe even lagging behind the grid a little. Wouldn't this turn your generator into a giant motor, i.e. the grid at 60hz pushing your generator because it's only at 59hz? When are you SUPPOSED to close that switch- when it's standing still or slowly rotating?

[@SeanBZA]

Large amount of rotational energy, the step change will not worry a diesel genset much, but here you have multiple tons of moving mass, so there really should be no sudden step changes. Once locked to the grid you can easily up power just by opening the wicket gates, and increasing excitation current to get full power feeding in. Excitation current changes output voltage and power factor, and then your gates are opened to keep the power up to spec. Do it wrong and your turbine can actually draw power from the grid.

[@TheTomahawkTech]

The needle should ultimately be moving slow in the fast direction.

[@DMahalko]

A 3-phase synchronous grid-tied generator is always a motor at the same time, and the operating modes can't be separated. The 3-phase transmission line is like a virtual power shaft with a 3-lobe gear on it. As long as the rotor field is excited, it will continue to rotate. They can completely turn off the water, and it will keep spinning as a motor. The direction that the current flows in the transmission line is dependent on whether the rotor poles are slightly leading the phase (pushing power into it) or slightly lagging (as in a motor load) to pull power out.

[@gummy1204]

You tie in with the generator a little faster than the grid. I don't know why exactly but I was told it's better to have the grid brake your generator than have it pull violently in phase. Ideally you would close the tie in with 0 phase difference, so perfectly in phase and perfectly in sync but us humans aren't that perfect. You can hit a sync button these days and a computer will do it for you with + - 2 degrees accuracy (or at least that what it says on the box)

[@standardaussie]

5:04 VOTV FLASHBACK the machines are alive, they talk to me in my sleep 🤪 they give me signals! Cool to see this stuff though mate, thanks for sharing.

[@Danevils]

Chris, I’m pretty sure you could create a YT video with 8 hours of this power plant noise so it can permeate our dreams too! Pretty pleaseee

[@Physicsduck]

Done! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZPXdaOpg5dlfdk I have a channel called Atmosfar that I created for people with Autism and Anxiety disorders. That's 8 hours of a turbine generator freewheeling. The thump you're hearing is the quad-block bearings (and that's why it's shutdown, we had to replace the bearings). :)

[@Danevils]

@@Physicsduck BEAUTIFUL!

[@TLHD420]

Thank you for this clear and concise video!

[@tedrex8959]

Thank you for these videos I love watching them, there is something about seeing into a place you would never normally be able to enter. I say that it is scientific curiosity but my daughter just calls me nosey! If I may I have a couple of questions was it originally built as a generator or is it a repurposed mill pond and are there many like this in the area or is it quite rare? Thanks again for keeping my brain occupied.

[@Physicsduck]

Thanks for watching! :) "there is something about seeing into a place you would never normally be able to enter" That's why the series is called Authorized Personnel Only. Our plants were all built originally for this purpose. We're not connected to a mill or anything like that. Little plants like ours are pretty common around this area, but they're located in such out-of-the-way places that most people don't know they exist. It's a sincere honour and a privilege to get to share this stuff with curious people just like you. :)

[@SamSitar]

nice seeing how electricity works.

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

​@@Physicsduck just found your channel! I just learned something! Nee subscriber!

[@somerandomguy3868]

I know enough to put a meter on at home during a heat wave, back in late August or early July while the lights stayed on we had a technical brown out just over 58 Hz and just under 114 vac happened a couple of days in a row,peak times around 4pm-10 East coast north east section of US power grid

[@baylinkdashyt]

Is there a beat tone like that cause the gennys have different pole counts or something?

[@Physicsduck]

You are exactly correct. They also spin at different RPMs as these are two *very* different generators.

[@baylinkdashyt]

@@Physicsduck #nice

[@KiwiMaker]

Thats co cool! you can actually see when its 180 degrees out of phase by the needle pointing the opposite direction :)

[@corybackus3449]

That's a beautiful sound!

[@littleshopofelectrons4014]

After the two generators are in sync and connected to the power grid, does the power grid itself maintain the synchronization or is there some sort of generator phase/RPM feedback mechanism on each generator for automatic speed adjustment?

[@Physicsduck]

The Grid itself holds us in sync. I'm going into a LOT of detail on this in an upcoming video. :)

[@44Bigs]

@@Physicsduck this stuff is so fascinating. I had no idea but it makes total sense. I only know PV where this is all abstracted away in the digital domain of crude inverters. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@1971merlin]

The grid itself puts power into the generator to speed it up should it go slow. And vice versa. The grid is far bigger than any one generator, so it always wins.

[@jamescollier3]

there's only one speed lol

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

If they are synchronous generators they are forced into sync because of the way they are built. They are always in sync. They can't not be in sync. If they are not synced to the grid BEFORE being connected to it, they will suddenly become synced WHEN they are connected, possibly with a very loud bang and metal parts flying everywhere :)

[@willi-fg2dh]

had a job that needed four one megawatt diesels be started and paralleled . . . just left the job to Russelectric gear . . . worked as spec'd, every time!

[@gravelydon7072]

Safer that way.

[@randacnam7321]

You know your panel is old when the idiot lights are 7.5G11 sign lamps in lampholders poking thru the metal.

[@vanjan14]

I'm gonna need an Atmosfär video of the happy power plant sound to test it's ability to permeate my dreams.

[@Physicsduck]

As you have requested, so shall it be done. :)

[@BenCos2018]

nice lmao

[@BlueSky...]

Nothing cooler than synchroscopes like this.

[@FlatBroke612]

Do this all the time paralleling ships generators...

[@krz8888888]

I'd put that on the ol' bucket list but it's not gonna happen! Thanks for sharing

[@mrmaigo]

You can do a lot of stuff if you're friendly and just ask. Or wear a hard hat and carry a clip board.

[@Physicsduck]

Do you happen to live anywhere near Southwest Michigan? I might know a guy.

[@krz8888888]

@@Physicsduck Wrong country unfortunately but you're the man! Thanks for the videos this is really fascinating stuff.

[@gravelydon7072]

@@mrmaigo Always be wary of a man with a hardhat and a clipboard. ;-)

[@drsnepper]

That sound would put me to sleep. And that's a good thing!

[@JeffRAllenCH]

Paging @Look mum no computer, who should totally sample this video for his next song.

[@Physicsduck]

YES! OMG YES! :)

[@midbc1midbc199]

You want sound that permeates your brain and dreams......run an air-arc cutter for 10 hours and that's all you hear after like a bad song stuck in your head...... it's like holding a downed powerline in your hand and arcing it off metal for your job

[@aaronata12]

Happy power plant noise, 1 hour

[@Physicsduck]

I'm on it, it will appear on my Atmosfär channel. In the meantime you may want to check out this one. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3SchpKPd9iLnbM and this one kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZPXdaOpg5dlfdk. I do a lot of videos like that to help people with Anxiety and Autism. It's what I created that whole channel for.

[@spongygryphon]

@@Physicsduck I'm sure it is your hell from hearing it all the time but the sound of the generators in this video are quite relaxing to me, I think it would be a good candidate. Awesome channel btw :) The first generator you switched on really has a vibe to it for sure on it's own

[@zombieregime]

So, I get the whole synchronizing to the rotor phases, but what exactly are the lights indicating? Are these 2 phase generators, with the lights between the grid and the generator, so that when out of phase a voltage is created illuminating them, thus one lamp is phase 1 and the other phase 2? Or is it two just for fall back and its indicating phase from only one leg of the grid/gen? They seem to beat together, if they were separate phases id imagine some sort of beat occurring between them at some point... Aaaaaand there is the video explaining sync lights....I see it after typing this.....of course.....welp I typed it, not gonna delete it 😁

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

You just earned a new subscriber!

[@Physicsduck]

THANK YOU! and good luck on the Plymouth! btw, you don't need to grease the battery terminals, just put one or two drops of oil on them every time you do an oil change, works great.

[@gazoline7093]

Amazing how old this stuff is all the stuff I have worked with is done on computers and has a syncroscope on the computer and the computer dose the grid tie automatically. If you are out of a phase and tie into the grid big boom

[@CubbieSeWolf]

I could fall asleep to that

[@iblesbosuok]

Reminds me long time ago when I still active as a pirate amateur radio. Zero beating my VFO to my friend's transmitter frequency & phase.

[@oliviaannejohnson9689]

I’m really interested in learning more about hydroelectric dams this helps

[@m369.0jz]

Good job sir, To explain to those who don't understand what is happening. Its like pulling the plug on in a bath tube, it creates a void in the water displacement which causes actual water shock waves, sorry for the guy fishing upstream lol.. Simply said. Fast light, fast water Slow light, slow water. Needle in center , matched water turbine speed to balance electric flow. Needle spinning wildly? TOTALLY missed the timing of returning Shockwave and high risk of pitting pistol and turbine. Or worse dam failure or black outs. Along as it doesn't attach to grid, which you have seconds to do at match.

[@TheToastPeople]

5:10 Alarmingly accurate

[@train4905]

That was brilliant

[@gantmj]

Now I want to know what an exciter is.

[@johanntiu4162]

It's a part of a generator/alternator usally found on the rotor. It's purpose is to generate a magnetic field, to create a volatage on the stator coils. It's called an exciter because it excites the generator, because they usually don't self start.

[@rleeAZ]

This is cool, thanks for posting it Chris. Could you use an oscilloscope and frequency counter to accomplish the same? It's not steam punk cool like blinking lights and a spinning pointer :)

[@Physicsduck]

Just wait until the next episode :) It's coming, with a special guest in my shop! We shot it a few days ago and it's in post production now. Thank you for watching!

[@Alpejohn]

This is so cool!!!

[@rocket2739]

Alternate title : I slip a dam's electromagnetic clutches for a solid minute each

[@MyAvitech]

You can say that your two generators are only happy after you "beat" them ;)

[@Physicsduck]

#It'sNotAPhase

[@captainchaos3667]

So do I understand correctly that you sync the generators purely by managing the water flow? That's pretty cool.

[@isettech]

So why wasn't the wicket opened to produce power into the grid. The 2nd tie was much better than the first as it was running slightly fast and closed just before top. Perfect. I'm surprised you were able to close going slow in the first one. The first one was quite a bit over frequency and had to slow a lot. Do you know if it was over 80 HZ. With manual exciter controls, it could go over voltage and damage things. Might want to get the exciter up earlier to watch the voltage and frequency on startup. Many plants have a reverse power relay that will trip if the generator motors off the grid. Some plants have over-speed trip. Was this just a practice run for a new operator to manually sync the generator?

[@nomusicrc]

Thank you for not adding music I would have a better understanding of this if I could see everything working but I bet that's impossible

[@mrmaigo]

So if the generators are locked at frequency are they locked at power output?

[@Physicsduck]

No, Frequency and Voltage are determined by how fast we spin them. Power output is a function of Amps, which is determined by how much torque we push against the shaft. This is controlled by how much water is flowing. I'm going to be doing a deep dive on this in a future episode. :)

[@mrmaigo]

@@Physicsduck So more flow is pushing against the grid but the rest of the grid out 'weights' the generator and it stays locked in. That's cool.

[@Pants4096]

@@mrmaigo The coolest part for me is that it's pushing against THE ENTIRE GRID. Once they're synced and connected, their turbines are in lock-step with every other turbine on the entire grid. If they stop pushing, the grid will pull them right along. A GIGANTIC machine beating in synchrony. Based on how many poles their generators have, it might be 200 rpm or 1800 or whatever, but when a sudden load comes on in one part of the grid, a "tug" slowing things down ripples across the whole thing. The "little guys" like these generators get to be set to full-tilt: they're attempting to push as hard as they can, not really responsible for pushing less if there's less demand. That's the job of the big boy peaking plants. Plug in an aquarium pump and listen to the hum, and you're literally hearing the same pitch everyone in half the country is hearing. It's so cool!

[@brimmed]

Do they not have auto sync check on the generator? Or is this just showing how the sync scope works? I'm a EHV substation engineer so don't really get to see the generation side of things

[@drsnepper]

The exciter for Gen 1 freaks me out.

[@dougs3274]

As a visual learner, are there any videos showsplaining what all's going on here?

[@DigitalDiabloUK]

Someone needs to make a simulated version of this, maybe controlled by a Raspberry Pi or ESp32 - something with physical buttons and switches. ❤

[@Jacob_graber]

Are the manual sync lights indicating the beat formed by the subtraction of the generator waveform and the grid waveform?

[@exi]

Basically... but its just wires. The bulb is wired between generator L1 and grid L1. If they are out of phase current will flow and the light will go on :)

[@KingdaToro]

It's a lot simpler. They're connected between the generator output and the grid. Any time they're not synced up, there will be a voltage differential between them, which will cause a current to run through the lights and illuminate them. When the generator's synced, there will be no voltage difference, so they're off.

[@hariranormal5584]

those flashing lights remind me of flashing lights with neon signs from the same era.

[@leandrolaporta2196]

How does it stays in phase all the time? Is there is any kind of circuit that measures differential current or just the very same force of the grid does that?

[@KingdaToro]

The grid locks it into phase. When you try to spin it faster than grid frequency, that energy goes into the grid as electricity instead of speeding it up. If you don't, it pulls power from the grid to maintain speed, basically acting as a motor rather than a generator.

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

​@@KingdaTorofine line from being a generator and a motor!!

[@dominichines9996]

My question is what happens if some cleanfreak erases all the marker labeling stuff

[@ohanneskamerkoseyan3157]

I understand that a generator is synced to the grid before it is connected. But how does the grid regulate its frequency so that it doesn't drift away from 60 Hz?

[@gustavojmalano]

Consider the grid as an infinite power generator. No single generator can perturb the grid frequency. But all of them aim for the same target frequency by means of their governor valves or whatever it's used in every case.

[@uploadJ]

re: " But how does the grid regulate its frequency so that it doesn't drift away from 60 Hz?" AN organization named "MISO" coordinates the operation of all generators on the gird, asking some to 'slow down' (output less energy) and others to 'speed up' (output more) based on system demand and system frequency.

[@HenryLoenwind]

By increasing power production when the frequency goes down and decreasing it when it goes up. The same way you regulate the the rotational speed of you car's tires. When the car (grid) uses more energy (e.g. going uphill), you increase the motor's (generator's) power to keep speed. When it needs less (e.g. downhill), you decrease it. And just like your car may have cruise control, the grid has its own kind of cruise control. The simplest (and oldest) way to build this is a fly-weight governor. That's a motor with a vertical axle that has a moveable weight attached to it (like spinning a ball on a string). Depending on the speed of the motor, that weight will move further away or closer towards the axle. Add some levers and this distance translates into a control input for your generator.

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

Since they use synchronous generators (don't ask me why) the generators are locked to the grid. There's no way for the generator to drift away from 60 Hz while the grid is 60 Hz. The grid does drift a little bit away from 60Hz but not very much, and it's ultimately controlled by power plants adjusting their fuel/water, usually automatically.

[@WillowFox]

lol "This sound permeates your dreams"

[@thebishtable]

This looks like it could be a minigame in Fallout

[@berndeckenfels]

When you have grid lock, is there actually a way to see strain if valves/gates are too open or too closed or do you do that by hearing or is it regulating automatically?

[@zaflowgalactic]

The sound permeates your dreams...! 🤣

[@dos585]

I love this sound but i like more the 50Hz :-) I sleep very well with it

[@michaelc9128]

yes off topic but watching the gauge go round and round with the lights flashing, would remind me of watching some kind of twilight zone time travel movie..

[@chrislaplante5040]

What happens to the power generated before it is synced and connected to the grid? Is there a dump load?

[@gravelydon7072]

Nothing. The generator at that time only has the load of the meters and the lights. A generator has no power per se when it has no load.

[@the-am]

Speed of rpm, Hz, Balance, and output 🙂

[@RogueOntheRoad]

Change the bearings on that generator. It might not squeak.

[@adrian_sp6def]

I wish to hear the sound of unhappy generator for comparison

[@johanntiu4162]

Quoting Chris Bolden "it would make a lot of loud, angry and expensive noises. "

[@krz8888888]

Second one buzzed a bit. How far off can you click it "on" without blowing it up ?

[@Physicsduck]

You have to be pretty close. Best case is the relay trips and you just try again. Worst case is you launch a 30-ton generator across the room and everyone dies. We try to not screw that up.

[@joshuapk9808]

@@Physicsduck I think it would be amusing- I mean it WOULDN'T, but it would- to see somebody inadvertently close the switch on a 900MW generator when it's about 90 degrees out of phase. The resulting fireworks would be spectacular...

[@SeanBZA]

@@joshuapk9808 Well, there was a case here years ago, the turbine, and the alternator attached to it, exited the generator hall, through a new door they made in the one wall.

[@ben3989]

So does the turbine “make power” by putting out higher voltage than grid? Higher amps?

[@exi]

Higher frequency. The voltage has to be matched to the grid. Amps is what will flow while the generator is pushing for more frequency - to the motors on the grid which naturally want to slow down the grid while consuming amps.

[@KingdaToro]

Higher amps. A generator and motor are basically the exact same thing. once connected to the grid it will always try to spin at grid frequency. If you try to slow it down, it will draw amps from the grid to maintain speed. If you try to speed it up, it will push amps into the grid to maintain speed.

[@charlieangkor8649]

It's the sound of an alien abduction in progress. One alien sound from the flying saucer hovering and rotating and the other alien sound from the alien abduction antigravity beam vacuuming you up.

[@charletonzimmerman4205]

You failed to mention/show, switch to close bus "TIE", for each Gen. also to close @ 5 minutes, @ "0" 12 o'clock.

[@adik9441]

unit 1 was synched on slower side,

[@justjoe7313]

Uau, this is an awsome explanation of what is going on. I've seen all the videos in the series and this realy nicely shows the process. A question: how come the synchroscope is showing a few degrees of "slow" for both generators after the sync? Is this the left to automatic wicket gate system to set in the end? Thank's for all the great information in this videos and keep up the good work!

[@Physicsduck]

Thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying them! There are two possibilities for the gauge being a tad to the left. 1. The grid actually fluctuates a bit throughout the day, not much, but it's enough to measure if you put a Frequency meter on your power line. 2. The gauge is nearly a hundred years old, so it could be a bit wonky.

[@SeanBZA]

@@Physicsduck Synchroscope will be effectively disconneced when you synchronise, so it will be unpowered, and thus stay at the rotational angle difference that it had when power was disconnected. Plus yes it is a century old, and probably needs to be stripped, cleaned, have the pivot points and bushes polished and set, and then put back together.

[@noelcollins1960]

@@Physicsduck I remember years ago going into the main grid control room here in Sydney, Australia. They had 2 digital clocks on the wall, one was line frequency driven and the other was an atomic clock. They would adjust the grid frequency to keep the clocks in sync

[@gravelydon7072]

@@Physicsduck It isn't uncommon to see the grid at 59.9 instead of an even 60.

[@riverwolf695]

Good thing I just took my meds, so looking at flashing things doesn't affect me so much.

[@weazeldark3983]

I find it weird u wouldn't fire up the gen as a motor and then feed drive to it to generate power

[@Huvada]

It’s possible to do this, however you’d need to regulate it as to not create a massive inrush current from the grid. This requires a lot of additional hardware.

[@markhodgson2348]

I'm looking forward to you returning to us all I hope this isn't a fantasy on my part

[@Physicsduck]

:) I'm already in production on new videos. It takes time, but they're coming.

[@gerrywalsh5766]

Sounds like the Pratt & Whitney engines on a C-130 synched together. When the synchronizer is FUBAR you are in for a horrible flight. That drone noise makes your whole head vibrate. Ugh

[@Bingbackguillotines]

If someone just sat me there watching this, id think something very bad was about to happen.

[@dangoldbach6570]

Wow she is TALKIN!! Love the audio on this vid!

[@ocsrc]

Now imagine trying to do this by remote control over a two way radio system using just DTMF tones to open the gates and put it online

[@prodigal48]

Why is there a “beat” when both generators are in sync?

[@guntherberger596]

I would say different generators with different numbers of magnetic poles and therefore different rpm at the same frequency.

[@Veso266]

How are this lights wired so they only light up every negative cycle (it aphears they go off at 50hz so thats why I am confused)

[@KingdaToro]

They're simply connected between the generator output and the grid. When they're out of phase, there will be a voltage across the light, which will cause current to flow and illuminate it.

[@jimharris9394]

If everything is in sync, why is there a "beat frequency"? Logically, you would think that there would be no beat at all if everything was dead-on.

[@Physicsduck]

Because there are *two* generators in this powerplant, and they're very different. Since they have different numbers of poles, they rotate at different speeds. The output power is the same frequency, the but exciters ringing the frames happens at different frequencies. The only sound the generators make is from the exciters causing the frames to ring.

[@jimharris9394]

@@Physicsduck But there was this "beat" audible when only one generator was running. . . And why would the generators be different? You would think that they'd be identical since it's likely that they were installed at the same time. (It's kinda' hard to retrofit a solid concrete dam to install a second generator after the fact, 'eh?)

[@stevengill1736]

Imagine what this must sound like in a plant like the Three Gorges dam in China!

[@thafff]

For reference, how many poles have generators 1 and 2? How do you get initial excitation ? Auxiliary gen on the same shaft? Grid backfeed?

[@TheTomahawkTech]

DC powered exciter.

[@SuburbanDon]

when i used.to lay out circuit boards for a living, i would see dots when i went to bed.

[@SukacitaYeremia]

Now my computer fan sounds in phase.