The Boomerang Fan is So Much Better Now | Fan Showdown S2E1.5

After the season opener of season 2 of the fan show down you all made it vary clear that limiting the RPM of all the fans was not something you wanted to see. I agree so today we are going to retest all the fans from episode 1 to see how they stack up moving forward. Also going forward in season 2 of the fan showdown we will be allowing all the fans to spin as fast as they can, just as the designers intended.
Send me your fans
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design information
thingiverse.com/thing:4553248

[@KarmBDV22]

I love how you listen to your audience. The content is interesting but the fact that you actually interact with us makes it top notch!

[@nielsmoureau6666]

Aye

[@thedaveoraveo]

Can't agree more. Actually goes through alot of effort redoing work he's already done just to do it the way we want even if it makes little to no difference.

[@richardhall1667]

Absolutely! I saw this video come up and was pleasantly surprised by the attention to feedback and to detail. Top-notch indeed!

[@darknessblades]

Not forgetting that one of the Fans on the show might get a OFFICIAL release. by a company

[@ThomasMaltuin]

I concur. Went to comments just to state that I appreciate how he responds to negative feedback so politely. "you guys are unhappy, let's fix it." Thanks for being such a chill guy.

[@rolandleyco573]

At first I was a huge fan your channel, but now I fully fledged Air Conditioning Unit.

[@Ravenor907]

I'm stealing this quote 🤣

[@CNCmachiningisfun]

Wow! That really blows - - but in a good way :) .

[@yokedmonster]

Whatever gets the views probably needs to come up with some different type of content the fan thing is (cool) but it will get stale eventually

[@CNCmachiningisfun]

@@yokedmonster Someone needs to put a new spin on it.

[@gregcarterii2357]

I think the mix of cooling and electronics makes me feel a bit more like a TEC-head for the channel...

[@teachingthecode4651]

Thank you for listening to the fans! If we had continued with RPM limiting, giant power-hungry fans would have won every time.

[@WesAndRuss]

*groan*

[@MatthewLudwig-mw8uq]

Any chance you could explain why? Does the industry let their fans spin as fast as they can?

[@icemaiop]

@@MatthewLudwig-mw8uq Because the motor has limited power and power hungry fans rach the limit at a lower rpm, while lighter fans will be stuck at lower rpms and will never get to see the full power available to them. Lets think for an example the motor can deliver 5W of power. Scenario 1: No rpm limit Big heavy fan with huge blades reaches 1000 rmp and uses all 5W the motor has available Light fan with small blades reaches 3000 rpm and uses all 5W available. Both fans have a fair fight. Scenario 2: 1200 rpm limit Big heavy fan still only reaches 1000rpm and uses all 5W of power Light fan reaches limit of 1200rpm and uses 2W of power. Limiting the rpm makes fans that are light and aerodynamically optimised or designed with low air friction in mind lose out on all the benefits they have been designed for. And also directly limits their potential.

[@teachingthecode4651]

@@icemaiop ♥♥♥

[@teachingthecode4651]

@@MatthewLudwig-mw8uq They may use a noise or power limit, but not an RPM limit.

[@KaosII1968]

Respect how you appreciate your audience...

[@mendaxMultorum]

this is like the 4th time youve made a change that the community asked u to change back and u did. major props for listening man but maybe u should run a poll before makin any future changes lol

[@Kennykazey]

Thank you for changing the methodology, season 2 is saved! The boomer is such a fun design, I'm glad it got a second chance.

[@somethingcooleventually]

Thanks for retesting these designs. I like the dedication

[@NicolasChapadosGirard]

It must had taken the same time to make it as the 1rst 1rst episode. Remake the models and test them again... Sure is alot of work!

[@vindred1297]

The fact that you can take criticism and use it to make your channel better without taking any of it personally while navigating the spray of opinions and information in an intelligent way has resulted in a very fine show which continually improves. You're one of our best.

[@DroptheBassForJesusSake]

You should also include noise normalized tests so people can try to compete for the quietest fans as well or maybe do that for season 3

[@louisvaught2495]

Issue with noise-normalized testing is that it's more than a little bunk for designs with this much variation. Human perception of noise is... very distorted depending on pitch and randomness (it's easier to ignore white noise than pink noise or tones). Trying to compare how "loud" sources of noise are when they have different profiles doesn't really work, especially in this kind of format.

[@Kirinketsu_]

You mean like the fans you buy do, because that is what people truly care about, what fan give the best performance at under 43, 40, or 37 dBA.

[@louisvaught2495]

@@Kirinketsu_ That's the problem - 30 dBA at what kind of noise profile? Perceived noise and measured noise are two different things. Fan noise measurements on product pages work because most consumer fans are shaped similarly and spin at similar speeds. These fans are all weird shapes, so trying to generate a single number to compare them with doesn't work.

[@AJMansfield1]

@@louisvaught2495 He did say dB(A), although I agree it would make more sense to use the ITU-R 468 weighting rather than the A weighting.

[@louisvaught2495]

​@@AJMansfield1 Even ITU-R weighting is tuned to account for noise in a particular setting, because it's a derived approach based on observation, not a fundamental behavior. Fans don't have an audio-like noise profile, they're pink noise with repetitive transients. Research on people who have recently gained hearing via cochlear implant shows that our ability to reject noise is a learned thing, and that makes generalizing particular approaches not work well.

[@light-master]

Thank you for actually listening to your viewers! \(ϋ)/♩ Some ideas sound good initially but don't work out so well in the end, and way too many people are too attached to their own ideas to be able to admit they were wrong about something. Big props for reconsidering Season 2 rules!

[@thomas_jupiter]

A content creator that listens to his audience and delivers flawlessly? SUBSCRIBED.

[@TheMinecrafter737]

Thank you so much for listening

[@CryptoJordanVR]

What were the dBA levels for the fans at their max speeds? Edit: I have been informed that the dBA levels from the last video WERE measured at full speed. Sorry for the confusion everyone.

[@nikdelano]

He did the dBA ratings at normal speeds if I’m not mistaken

[@CryptoJordanVR]

@@nikdelano I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but that's not what I asked now is it?...

[@RhinoTurner1991]

@@CryptoJordanVR What I think he is saying is that the dBA levels you are looking for are in the last episode. Also if you feel the need to preface your statement with "I don't mean to sound like a jerk" then there is likely just another way to phrase your statement so that you don't sound like a Jerk...

[@EVPointMaster]

@@RhinoTurner1991 But the noise they make is not gonna be the same, so we want dBA readings for this test as well.

[@CryptoJordanVR]

@@RhinoTurner1991 Yes, I know that, but I did it for dramatic effect. You see, it's like this. When Person B answers Person A's question by using the answer for a different question that Person A didn't ask, it's both rude and annoying. Because, by doing so, Person B is assuming that they know what Person A wants better than they do and that their unrelated answer is "good enough"...

[@CausticLemons7]

Yes! OMG YES! Before even watching the video I want to tell you how much I/we appreciate this! You not only listened to your audience but then put in all this extra work to make content. I bet it was a huge pain in the ass, but thank you so much for doing all this!

[@patrickhector]

Noise normalised is the only really important metric for fans IMO, anyone can get an industrial 50db fan that performs really well but you don't wanna be around those when they're working

[@willvincentparrone3339]

I'm liking this because of the fact that you actually listen to your audience. Kudos for that.

[@Jaywithag78]

Great job! This is one of my most anticipated shows. Thanks for all that you do!

[@tobiasjarpner1036]

I don't care about fans and how they cool, but the way you host and shares the excitement is phenomenal! Soo looking forward to the continuation of S2 and any other content, keep up the good work!!!

[@kudasauce]

Great respect coming back to revise everything. This is why this series is top notch

[@PercussionEnsembles]

Thank you for listening to us!!! It's much appreciated.

[@Tantaku]

if you want to put a cap on it, I would do a decibel limit

[@caidNL]

100% this

[@DoubsGaming]

if he did I would also like to see him standardize the distance he records the sound at. Like gamers nexus.

[@Tantaku]

@@DoubsGaming yeah of course he'd need some kind of nearly perfected setup

[@blahorgaslisk7763]

With all the options he has for doing this I think the current test isn't the worst nor the best, at least not for all situations and goals. As for setting a noise limit I think it would be a good idea to keep doing the test as he has them now and then at the end of the "season" do a retest of the top contenders with noise normalization and present the data ranked for performance when noise normalized as well as the noise when running at max power. That way the most capable fans also get tested noise normalized. Something has to be figured out for fans like the boomerang though, as even though it measures well it introduces way to much vibrations to be a good choice even if the audible sound level would turn out to be reasonable.

[@christophertstone]

Disagree. He's measuring cooling power as the output. If he's going to limit anything it should be power input, so we're measuring efficiency. Noise is an efficacy loss anyway.

[@BMPPMan]

Really pleased to see how quickly you take and implement suggestions from your community, keep it up!

[@spicynoodle6668]

Thanks for taking our concerns and addressing them! looking forward to season 2 in full!

[@NightForce]

This is true backyard crowdsourced science! Please keep up the nice work!

[@Space_Reptile]

honestly id love to see all these fans printed in resin, that was the thin designs like the uneven harmony can be printed w/o issues and nasty layers

[@Goodgu3963]

What I think you need to realize about the fan competitions is that we as viewers want to see the fans perform as their creators intended. If something needs a re-print to be mirrored, or different infill, or even a better surface finish because a print was rough, we will basically always say YES. We want a competition of fan designs, not a "how well did the creator upload it and submit it and how well did he follow the instructions" competition.

[@irongiant_actual]

I think this is the only KZbin channel that I watch within minutes of a video being posted that's how much I love this channel

[@802Garage]

Just a thought... Maybe vibrations somehow increase cooling affect. Shaking the heat pipes causes the liquid inside to circulate more quickly? No idea, but maybe test a cooler both on and off a vibrating platform. That's something I've never seen.

[@Cloutwick]

I like the idea.

[@garrettcox6542]

Awesome, I think these adjustments work a little better. Love the Fan Showdown, always exciting to see what others come up with!

[@joshm2279]

Jesus man ur video quality is so good. The colours are so vibrant...just wow

[@Ironfist2211]

Thanks for listening to your audience! 100% excellent content Major :D

[@TheGuacoTaco]

I love that you listened to the comments. However, don't let them discourage you. I enjoy your content. It's fun and informative as to why fan designers make the decisionsthat they do. Keep up the good work and, as Adam Savage once said "The difference between screwing around and science is writing it down." Keep making science brother.

[@AHSEN.]

:) Thanks for listening to us. My personal reason was that top speed makes weight another factor to think about when designing fans, and after all, the noctua fan only beat the other fans at top speed, so that's why I thought it would be better to let them all go to top speed.

[@FullAnarchyDotNet]

Thank you for letting the fans spin as fast as the motor would let them

[@Scootercorn]

Complete first timer to this channel. Liked the content, and I would suggest throwing up a chart at the end that displays the metrics of each fan along with an image. That would have helped me visualize the comparison better. 👍🏼

[@Thephysiquemechanic]

hell yes. AWESOME thanks for listening to everyone .

[@ayjays132]

Proud of you knew you'd continue to grow!

[@Sheamu5]

Thanks for the update, glad you let them off the restriction :)

[@Bamfhammer]

Thanks! I knew that Boomer had more in it! At almost twice the speed it seriously performed well.

[@luca6819]

Thanks for removing the speed limit! I think that a noise floor could be more appropriate for a typical usage of this type of fans, for example test how do they perform at the same noise level of the reference fan (the noctua), or whatever noise level defined as acceptable. I understand that this would mean double the tests for each fan so if it's not possible just continue with the full speed test.

[@amicloud_yt]

Thank you and glad you retested those after reading people's feedback. c:

[@JMPDev]

For a bonus episode you could try testing various filaments with one set design. I’d be interested if their differences in density and aerodynamic properties would make a measurable distance

[@chrismanuel9768]

I'm an avid admirer of this content. One may even say... I'm a big fan.

[@LifeWithMatthew]

nice fade transition between the different fans for rankings

[@Mikelectric]

I was sad about the fixed speed and not printing the rang in 100% infill so its funny that the hivemind agreed. thanks for fixing that!

[@quantumuninstall]

Thank you for these changes. I almost stopped following this season because of these mistakes. This time I rung that bell buddy.

[@ALifeOfWine]

This episode explains perfectly why we need noise normalised thermals.

[@jfolz]

Noctua could easily make fans that cool much better, but they wouldn't sound as smooth.

[@dragonfire3289]

Honestly: No. Noctua needs to make fans which cool good and sound good, are affordable and all yeah. But the Fan showdown is not made to present ideas which would be commercial fans, but rather test out unique and cool fans. The fans should get the same motor and all other stuff is not regulated or else we will see more normal designs all over the place. Also something like a tulip with some strange dimensions should be allowed.

[@ALifeOfWine]

@@dragonfire3289 Actually, the fan show was to see if the community could make a fan that rivalled the noctua. And considering the noctua is designed for efficiency at reasonable noise levels, and all these tests are using the noctua motor and housing, a noise normalisation over a small range is the only way to fully determine whether a fan competes or not. There are plenty fans that out perform the noctua in pure max capability, but the reason it's the gold standard is because it's almost the best at cooling while being almost the best at noise reduction.

[@dragonfire3289]

@@ALifeOfWine I see your point, but I still think that it evolved into more just design the best fans with a lot of wired designs. Otherwise we would just see boring fans since noctua probably has invested some hours into making the perfect fan for real use in PCs.

[@ALifeOfWine]

@@dragonfire3289 Well it's still entertainment, but there's still a leaderboard. I said in another comment that there's no reason you couldn't do everything, you just need a minimum of 3 temp tests per fan: At lowest rpm At least 1 noise normalised dB or sone level At highest rpm Plot a line graph of dB Vs temp to compare the fans. Now you know the best fan at every test point you could want.

[@sparky4845]

dang, less than a minute old. :) got out of the shower at the right time!

[@sparky4845]

Also MASSIVE props to you for listening to your comments section! Glad to see you improving the show based on direct feedback. 👏

[@Cloutwick]

I did the same getting out the shower lol

[@tylerm.9408]

Excellent changes!!! Thank you!!

[@alihms]

Actually, this guy stumbles upon a new untapped genre of U-Tube content - viewers competition channels. So, what other contents falls into this genre? I believe they are mostly design / tech related. Ex: best homemade method to harvest rain water to generate electricity, simplest bird feeder that effectively prevents access from squirrels, cheapest adruino controlled perimeter security etc. It doesn't have to be tech related though. The you-tuber can do a channel testing user submitted tips / tricks to sell some junks at the highest price, for example.

[@rivergranniss3740]

OMG YES! Please make sure to not ignore critical instructions and then just say it is what it is 😂

[@bttmlesspit25]

I hope you do both as I really like the locked rpm as to be able to view efficiency

[@TheBallisticzero]

"They were expecting us, they expected all of us! DIOS MIO AAHHH!!!" - The Mexican Inquisition

[@Niarbeht]

I had no idea all this drama was happening. I think it'd be interesting to test based on multiple parameters: Test with fixed RPM, test with fixed DB, test at max speed? It's more testing, but it gives a more complete picture?

[@WaterZer0]

THE TWO BLADED WONDER

[@Demon09-_-]

A noise normalized shoot out would be cool to see

[@dayejung666]

This would be a good problem for a neural network to solve, but like how you can teach and AI to walk by trial and error over millions of simulated runs using a scoring system to determine success or rather good habits of something that walks; in this same way you could make a neural net that could look for high air flow numbers at 2000 rpm and it was automation ally change shapes till it found an optimal format.

[@kaminelson1277]

There's a method for things like this that starts by allowing almost every design, then very slowly making the parameters more strict which allows for a design that at first is bad, but then is even better than what a simple network would find.

[@brian770]

great job, thanks for retesting everything.

[@mouse2542]

this seems wholesome compared to all the stock drama going on

[@bestari5555]

I would love to see you do a noise normalized run in addition to the other testing, but not replacing it. And maybe having a special spot for the most efficient fan at low noise in each season. After all noctua is going for silent + efficient as well.

[@GeneralLee131]

Lol the Uneven Harmony is exactly what the radiator fan looks like on my 1981 D50 pickup. The Japanese knew the perfect fan configuration 40 years ago!

[@qzxyst6946]

this channel improved alot

[@WouterVerbruggen]

I'd suggest also testing the airflow without restriction. Some of the "bad" fans might in that situation outperform those that did well in a restricted case (with a fin stack behind it). This is because depending on the fan design it might provide a lot of airflow at lower pressure or the other way around. Just like how a compressor fan looks a lot different than an airplane propellor

[@djalilderr2831]

You are the best men 🌟 keep the videos coming

[@ihsen]

Love the interaction with the audience! But please I have one simple request. Print in SLA :D Some fans have complex geometry which is very hard to do on an FDM printer. I think an SLA printer would produce smoother surfaces and thus better results. Would love to hear your input on this!

[@HairFollicle]

This man is trying to reinvent the fan and one day he will

[@justinlabarge8178]

Thank you so much for listening!

[@Megasaurus777]

Hi Major Hardware, Im not sure if you will see this comment, but im rather interested to see how much of a difference the Vortex control vanes on the back of the noctua fans make, and whether its something that would be able to be made as a standalone part to slip onto the back of normal fans for similar gains if there are any. Hopefully you see this thoroughly enjoy watching your videos and the technical aspects of fan design, and general tinkering that you do, keep it up

[@FrancisSims]

Good on ya for making these changes

[@BensMiniToons]

Thank you buddy! beautiful video!

[@Kirinketsu_]

It would be nice to see the dBA numbers at those RPMs, dBA is all the majority cares about when it comes to fans. Most people would rather have a fan that is quitter than one that is louder but cools slightly better. EVGAs CLC for example is very good at cooling....when at 100% fan speed which is over 60 dBA, which can be 10 to 20 dBA higher than other brands for only a 3c to 10c in temperature difference. I believe this is still true for their newer coolers, Corsair started locking their CLC fans to 37, 40, and 43 dBA at 100% fan speed based on the CLC model because of complaints of noise levels from past CLC. If dBA is not a factor and you just want to find the best style fan design that will push the most air for cooling then why are you not using a server grade controller that spin fans at 4k to 10k RPMs?

[@kevinporta4738]

Since the Noctua design takes noise level into consideration, shouldn't the testing be noise normalized?

[@infinitetoast9200]

I wouldn't say normalized but I would like to see it taken in to consideration

[@thefirehawk1495]

it would be a nice addition, I also like the raw results though, some people aren't very bothered by fan noise and some cases block the noise very well.

[@krazykidmusic4954]

Recently we have been testing pure performance. Noise could be another season in my opinion.

[@infinitetoast9200]

@@krazykidmusic4954 exactly , or even run them all again at the end of the season and figure out which is best airflow vs noise wise . Especially since we already have one that beats the noctua airflow wise but I'm guessing not noise wise

[@iamzid]

heck no! i run my fans at 100% all of the time always. that stupid over heating intel i-7 junk i have sort of requires it. i'm interested in maximum CFMs, i don't care if it sounds like a leaf blower.

[@lastwymsi]

Instead of Fans of this channel, we are AC Units. That is our community name and you cant convincw me otherwise! (unless you chose something else)

[@heyitsandrew2209]

Heck yeah! Good call here!

[@MrMartian]

We're all fans on this channel.

[@garbageman3992]

after hearing the news of the unlimited rotation speed i was soo happy. if that were not removed the fan showdown series would not be that fun

[@TH3C001]

I like how the Uneven Harmony is almost just an old school car radiator fan with the uneven spacing between the blades. But now that I think about it, I don't know why car radiator fans had that uneven spacing.

[@shadeofsound23]

You should be measuring efficiency - Wattage inputs and volts done are good ways to check how efficient a given air mover is vs how much cooling it does. It'll help with testing.

[@N3onDr1v3]

A DESPERATE PLEA TO RETEST THE OLD S1 FANS WITH THE NEW PARAMETERS SO I CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT

[@j.c.cannon2112]

I really want to see a double boomerang fan, the same fan just with a second boomerang turned 180 degrees.

[@tronique5736]

Comparing the results at max motor output vs a specific rpm target reveals something very important. The best fan for quiet operation absolutely is different from the best absolute performance design. If the fan show down is followed up with a 3rd season, I would like to see a focus on noise normalized results. A big reason why the a12x25 is so renowned is due to the fact that in noise normalized tests it *absolutely destroys* most other fans at around 1000 rpm, as it is still nearly silent at that speed while other fans became clearly audible in the 700-800 rpm range. You can tell it was optimized for performance at a specific rpm in order to reduce noise.

[@dualdarkelu8495]

Little did we know a small little experiment would turn into something huge like this

[@ConnorSinclairCavin]

The 1200 rpm was a good idea, however you should do both tests for each blade to show the efficiency of the blade (fixed speed) as well as the stress on the motor (difference to max speed)

[@nfuchs3702]

I appreciate your work. just a small correction. delta is always be given in K (Kelvin)

[@roberts.wilson1848]

is there a detailed video about the boomerag fan? I would love to see more info on this radical idea and would be so cool if some aero engineers and scientists would pitch in and develop the science for this type of fan.

[@rivergranniss3740]

The wave looks like a glitch filter I love it 🔥

[@Asdayasman]

You know what? Fine. I'll subscribe. I've watched enough of these fan videos now. I think it'd be nice if you could have categories like "best noise normalised", "best power limited", "best no holds barred". As Steve from Gamers Nexus says, it's not hard to be the best when you blast as much air as possible and sound louder than a jet.

[@readysetnogo]

Boomer is still my favorite. Im glad to see it move up the board a bit.

[@bryceallgood7219]

Can anyone tell me the name of the song?

[@TheHotEndChannel]

I wonder if the cooling will change if you print the same fans at 100% infill and then again at 20%?

[@crystaldragon141]

I'm guessing the vibration of the boomer has to do with uneven forces when it is spinning. It's not spinning in a vacuum. It's imparting a force on the surrounding air.

[@berryvr7184]

is there gonna be a conclusion to this fan showdown at the end, like best of the best fan designs ? or people doing votes on coolest looking or top unexpected fans to do well

[@sethlarson9433]

Nice update my guy.

[@LeoInterVir]

Ok boomer... moving on up... Anyhow I really suggest you do both. 1. Cap them all at one speed, record results. 2. Have them run full speed, record results. This is more real world as it represents the most common cases of users, those that run fans slow for noise and those that don't impede their fans. Don't impede the fans, do both.

[@ryanturpin5114]

Come on folks let's leave a like on this video to help him out since he listened to us

[@Dimythios]

You should stick the 1200RPM data and just add it in with the rest of your results. Reason. Between 800 and 1350 are the sweet spots for cooling vs noise. What good is cooling when your computer is humming like a freight train coming down the tracks. 31 year system builder and over the years I'm done similar tests fan performance. So I find it humorous/enjoyable seeing what you are doing with 3D printing.

[@skaltura]

wow that's quite a bit of change :O

[@sebbes333]

*@Major Hardware* Will you update the leader board according to their performance with these new parameters? (I think you should.) (just asking, because the leader board in the background wasn't updated at the end of the video)

[@makanidemoulin7591]

Keep up the great work!

[@kaminelson1277]

You should write down the emails of the first places because I have a feeling there's a business that's gonna want the design for the uneven harmony!