The Breakdown: The Original World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness Explained

The Botch Pit Discord: bit.ly/the-botc...
Website: www.thebotchpit...
Facebook: / thebotchpit
Instagram: / thebotchpit
Twitter: / thebotchpit
KZbin: / thebotchpit
In this new Editorial format video, we explain the history between what the original World of Darkness is, the new World of Darkness is and what the Chronicles of Darkness is, along with the history of how the confusion came to be. We hope this clears things up and you find it informative!
#breakdown #chroniclesofdarkness #worldofdarkness

[@rateater1857]

i had some troubles finding the v:tm/oWOD fans during nerd conventions, so i begun to wear a "nWOD is good, people are just mean" tshirt and tracked the sources of booing and brick-throwing ;)

[@rodrigobueno8652]

Its funny, i'm not american but in my country owod was and still is huge, almost went agiasnt dnd sometimes

[@lincr.1988]

I was a huuuuuuge fan of WoD and it took me a while to start giving the NWoD a chance, but once I gave this chance.. once I got comfortable with it I couldn't help myself but leaving WoD behind.. I realize now how flawed WoD is.. of course no system/story is perfect, but.. well.. I love CofD, I really do and I hopethey keep doing this amazing job they're doing :) The only WoD game I'd play again is Wraith the Oblivion cuz in my opinion it has the best scenario between WoD and CofD. Those writers REALLY made a masterpiece.

[@TheBotchPit]

All fair views. And though the original is flawed here and there, there's TONS of good stuff about the oWoD. Eventually, we'll get into covering some of the oWoD, too. But not for a time, likely.

[@lincr.1988]

@@TheBotchPit People are like a dog with a bone when talking about WoD, they don't even give a chance for CofD... You guys really should invest more in the marketing.. :/

[@wallybonejengles5595]

NWoD is more approachable I think, but Old World lore runs SO DEEP!

[@lincr.1988]

@@wallybonejengles5595 It does, but it has so many flaws.. it's comprehensible since they were creating the whole thing back then, with experience they improved a lot with the CofD

[@PaganScholar]

God if only I had heard this 2 years ago when I was trying to figure out wtf manuals I needed to read because I liked a game called “Changeling” haha. Even the comic book store employees weren’t sure what I needed to look for much less buy. Thanks for the clear up and concise explanation!

[@TheBotchPit]

My pleasure, man! Sorry for, well, not existing back then. Lol Do you have anything specific you'd like to see us cover next?

[@PaganScholar]

The Botch Pit maybe you could talk about how different splats interact with each other in your “zoo” crossover games? I’m writing up a Changeling/Vampire crossover myself. It would be helpful to know how powers of one group engage and interact with others. Less niche would just be Vampires fighting Werewolves right? I know the combinations would be endless but maybe just a general take on how different groups powers affect each other in gameplay.

[@eon001]

The Kindred embraced show had a lot of potential. It was a cool mix of mafia families, corporate clans and biker gangs. Like a supernatural Sopranos/Sons of Anarchy. They should reboot it on a streaming platform and make it a hard R show.

[@TheBotchPit]

It would need a stellar cast and solid writing like the original, though. Glad you enjoyed it as I did! Fun fact: it had half the cast of Sons of Anarchy. Tons of the same actors.

[@eon001]

@@TheBotchPit I remember it had Doakes from Dexter too :) Now is the best time to bring it back with the streaming wars needing content, and they all seem to have generous budgets. World of Darkness is a none IP with tons of lore that these platforms drool over. Would be amazing on HBO for example.

[@ThatMans-anAnimal]

Keep your R's hard, friendo.

[@appleseed8282]

@@ThatMans-anAnimal Agreed, they should drop hard R's in the reboot.

[@stephendeer7993]

Thank you so much! I was big into WOD from 2006-2010. I fell off and tried to get back into it in 2022 but found everything was gone thank you for the clear up

[@AlexisVolk97]

Maybe a more coolheaded take on the V5 stink is in order, love this editorial stuff dude.

[@nacienunbarco]

I’m really into this! I’m currently GMing a Changeling: The Lost, and it’s hard since no one talks about it. 😂

[@lincr.1988]

I feel you bro.. I feel you...

[@PaganScholar]

Are you in the Facebook group? It’s straight up called Changeling The Dreaming/Changeling The Lost (it’s a group for both games) it’s part fun posts and part good resources and a wide swath of folk who have played to ask questions to.

[@lincr.1988]

Changeling the Lost is my favorite game, I wish I could find people to play with online :/

[@nacienunbarco]

Pagan Scholar I don’t use facebook. 😩 That would be useful.

[@nacienunbarco]

Linc R. Do you know www.rpgtablefinder.com? I’t might be helpful to find people to play with! I’ve never participated in an online game, english is not my first language and I’m afraid I might not follow the pace of a live session.

[@danieltallon4316]

I play tested NWoD games, and I still get confused at some of this naming convention changes. Thanks for the video.

[@TheBotchPit]

Thanks for watching it!

[@markfaulkner8191]

Ars Magica is still going strong. The fifth edition of that game has been going for almost 20 years, and they are soon to publish a comprehensive fifth edition edit. It is the flagship title of Atlas Games, and I have been fortunate in that I was able to write a few things for them.

[@joelhenry5489]

Thank you for explaining this. I fell off the scene with the New World of Darkness because i thought it was too homogenous and orderly. It felt like they were putting game systems over creativity.

[@TheBotchPit]

My pleasure! Its... a bit convoluted. Lol

[@juramcclain666]

Remember that time Chris taught us economics and business commerce!

[@TheBotchPit]

Wait until the Vampire controversy video.

[@The_Happywolf]

Are the "New World of Darkness" and "Chronicle of darkness" playable with each others? like with merits etc

[@TheBotchPit]

Most of them, yes! In fact in the Chronicles Core book tells you to take their merits in the system and change the names of them to suit your character. For example.... say you're playing a Hilton-style debutante, instead of calling your money "Resources", write down "Inherited Wealth (Resources 4)". Merits are meant to be played loosely, so there's no reason for ST's to deny first edition merits, should they not be game ruiners.

[@nacienunbarco]

I play a Changeling: The Lost game and usually find myself digging into the Changeling: The Dreaming manual to get stuff I can’t find in the CTL books! Sometimes you need to adapt the mechanics a little bit, but id you’re looking for inspiration is really useful! I even use the Vampire books sometimes too.

[@nacienunbarco]

Also, yes! I second everyone that asked you to talk about Vampire V5. What is that.

[@TheBotchPit]

Oh, it's a whole thing.

[@nacienunbarco]

The Botch Pit Not sure if the new set of rules actually makes sense, or this people just needed to pay their bills so they made up a bunch of game mechanics to sell those new dice. 😂

[@JenniferFuss]

I'd be more interested in editorial content regarding the Chronicles of Darkness editions than a rehash of the V5 drama. Other than that, as a minor thing. From my understand White Wolf did impose the name change to Chronicles of Darkness on Onyx Path to differentiate the lines clearer and not vice versa.

[@TheBotchPit]

Well, to be fair, it would be an in-depth examination of all the controversy Vampire has ever had, not just V5.

[@JenniferFuss]

@@TheBotchPit That does sound better, yet the V5 controversy served me for quite some times to come with an abundance of drama I wish I hadn't been in the middle - or felt like it. Plus, there are quite some controversies. From teeth-vagina covers, to Montreal, Eternal Hearts, racial insensitive stuff like G*psy or various clan stereotypes, the murderous vampire fan, White Wolf suing their fan club and all that jazz. There are really a lot, and most ain't pleasant ^^;

[@chriswolfe351]

"And Beast: The Primordial, but uh, we don't talk about that one." Also yeah, I wouldn't mind hearing about the V5 shitshow.

[@chasel.9704]

I’d love to see a video on the kerfuffle that was the lead-up to V5. Its such a shame, because I really love the final product, but *man* did the devs not read the freaking room with their edgelord garbage. It legit has me worried, too. I was looking forward to seeing how the new system would handle Werewolf, and ever since Paradox (rightfully) reshuffled the deck, there’s been no news.

[@oldred890]

The first game I ever ran (or engaged with at all) from any World of Darkness stuff... was Geist 1st edition. I had severe depression and anxiety issues at the time and that game *did not help*, especially since it wasn't until like the 3rd session that I got outside confirmation that the book was fucked. I still love a lot of the theming and elements that were lost on transition to 2nd edition, but without homebrewing just so much shit, 1st edition is basically unplayable. The book references things that don't exist, contradicts mechanics in different sections, its a nightmare. EDIT: While I am familiar with how White Wolf got axed while doing V5, I'd say a video on it would be good material, especially since I still hear people to this day misunderstand *why* White Wolf got canned.

[@TheBotchPit]

I did a couple of videos covering that actually, and I'd make another but at this point since Renegade got involved the tabletop aspect of VtM has been much more on point. I mean, they're videogame divisions, that's debatable.

[@leftboxanderson5361]

Break down the difference in original and rebooted versions of the old world new world and chronicle

[@01taran]

This doesn't explain the differences at all; merely the history of the different editions and naming. I seriously would like to hear an evaluation of the differences in the fluff of the two settings, and of the mechanical differences.

[@victorwretched1072]

If someone from "prepa 3"is here, i salute you and i too remember the old days of those endless "vampire: the mascarade" sessions Also, love your videos ma dude

[@TheBotchPit]

Thank you!

[@rodrigobueno8652]

I like the base ideia of Storytelling System. The core rulebook with only humans is really intersting to palying others horror games ( creappypasta inspried games for example haha), depending of the line i actually like the cod more than owod

[@MJas1016]

Lez go botch lord

[@RotaFury]

Great video as always man, wish I could have watched it sooner but such is life. I wouldn't mind other videos like this but hopefully it wont take to much time from the meat and potatoes kf why where here... or should I say vampires and hunter? Ghouls and wraiths....hmm you get my point.

[@williamchristy9463]

It annoys me that the word "cringe-y" was continually used, when what was clearly looked for was "Badass" oWoD isn't cringe-y, its badass.

[@lincr.1988]

Naah

[@rateater1857]

some of it was badass. some of it was really, really cringy. elder wareadors celerity-porting behind players with a katana like "nothing personal, kid" is cringy, it just is, i'm sorry ;D

[@williamchristy9463]

@@rateater1857 Unfortunately, the Katana actually exists. And so wherever you go, you shall be threatened by this cringe.

[@andregalhardo3978]

​@@rateater1857 This exists in Chronicles of Darkness too. I really laugh when people say its just gone with the new scenario, because it isnt. Sure, multiple actions were a problem in the old setting, but there were numerous ways to deal with them. In Chronicles of Darkness, they just simply remove the fun factor of things. Celerity is now basically a defensive power, so i can dodge all your attacks because im super fast but i cant use the same ability to go on offensive...wow.... in werewolf, Gauru form has a time limit, so i cant be a Wolfman in a damn WEREWOLF game.... wow.... and to top it all, they made Gauru form nearly invincible without silver or D&D-like focused fire from all enemies on you. Just terrible. Mage got more organized magic system, but terribly crunchy. I bet you, every table you find will be playing Awakening differently, you know.... like it was in Ascension with less rules. So, whats the purpose?!

[@rateater1857]

@@andregalhardo3978 it does exist in nwod, but owod boasted a very particular style of leather trench coat edgelordery. it's fine, by the way, if someone enjoys it, i don't mean to shit on people's fun and i encourage everyone to embrace (hehe) cringe if it brings joy. the mechanics in nwod can be hit and miss. most of them, to me hits. and i never liked celerity much, anyway ;)

[@azmendozafamily]

As a 44 year old guy that loved playing Mage in the 90s, and dabbled with Vampire, I'm a little confused on what was cringe from the Old World of Darkness. Not being cute, or anything like that.

[@TheBotchPit]

It's not so much really "was" cringe, but more the cultural changing of the times. Aside from "Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand", that was always cringe

[@oldred890]

@@TheBotchPit I'd add "The book that won't be directly named because it would piss off my Romani friend", cause even before people stopped using that word, the book was considered *on release* to be... pretty racist.

[@bencox3641]

I'm more familiar with the NWOD/COD but I like VTM and WTA more than VTR and Werewolf The Forsaken. I find the ideas and themes in VTM and WTA a lot more interesting than in VTR and forsaken.

[@jonathonwells7934]

V5 drama please

[@TripleXGames]

Im one of those players that started on Nwod Loved it and began collecting books Sorta pissed off they rolled back But I understand it from a business standpoint

[@TheBotchPit]

What do you mean by rolled back?

[@bigreaderpike]

I heard that wraith was the first game not vampire

[@TheBotchPit]

Fake news. 😂 It was always Vampire. Easy to market compared to others.

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

nWOD made *COMMON SENSE* a prerequisite!

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

In the long tedious CoD sourcebook a section starts of with _”Almost everyone in the modern day can turn on a computer, use the internet, and perform basic searches.”_ it then wastes *_nine paragraphs_* explaining the Computer Mental Skill which in it’s opening sentence admits almost everyone understands already. The 5 dot system is straightforward and self explanatory, yet it went into needless extraneous detail over everything.

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

After 52 pages of over-explaining every asinine attribute and skill, which the 5 dot system should have been enough for, and over complicated dice rolls, I was excited to finally see a break learning boring rules rules and rules and that there was finally a lore insert. New lore! Yay! And…it was the Cult of Mammon. A group of vulture capitalists who worship the almighty dollar. 🤦‍♀️ Was there an objective to make the nWOD and the explanation of the ruleset as boring as possible?

[@andregalhardo3978]

I completely disagree. Chronicles of Darkness is just terrible. The rules are more cross-over friendly IN THEORY, but in practice, you still have huge power gaps, some splats are simply better than others (like Werewolves Gauru insta-regeneration form). Still very complicated to create a mixed chronicle, just a little better than before, but not much. The lore is very... loose, theres no ground up for players like the old titles. If you were a Tremere, you were part of a clan that usurped vampirism and battled for years against Tzimisce voyvodes in east europe. You were part of that legacy still in modern days. Now, you are a Mekhet, a vampire with a taste for the occult. The circle of the crone or Lancea et Sanctum are more like political parties with very little background. You feel completely detached, which is the purpose of the new setting, so the metaplot cant get in the way. I cant understand people complaining about metaplot... if you didnt like something, you could just get rid of it and ignore it! You didnt have to keep up with the books, just play right out of the core. Never had any problems with it. Creating a whole new setting just to eliminate the metaplot....wasted effort. Just make a book with new ideas, how to change rules, how to change the setting, etc. if you wanted it, you know, like they did with nwod, in mirrors, damnation city and Danse Macabre. The rules are more organized then before and are more consistent, sure, but they lost a lot of detail. Combat is pretty much abstracted and automated, its basically you trying to beat the target's defense rating, with a willpower resource management that some GMs, like myself, hate. If you got combatants with equal levels of skill, the combat becomes very boring. The old system was slow as hell, but at least it gave you detail, you knew if a char was parrying and attack, if you missed, etc. There are a lot of subsystems that you have to memorize in order to play like intended. For example, Forsaken: You have a lot of subsystems for Kuruth, which derives from Harmony, which have a lot of subsystems too, and also derive from primal urge, which also has a lot of subsystems, and on and on.... its way more crunchy than the old wod and nwod 1e, where it was basically "figure out a dice pool and go". On top of that, you now have conditions which increase book keeping and, unless you memorize them, they are a nightmare to track (when a game tries to sell you cards to ease the play, you know something is messed up). And lastly, the experience system, which also has A LOT of subsystems. Initially i was interested, it sounds great in theory, again. But soon as i got it in practice, all saw the flaws. Players are removed somewhat from the desire for success, since beats are earned pretty much from failure and nasty situations, aspirations also get in the way, since you have to balance every players desire and storytime so everyone can evenly earn beats, doubling the work of the GM. No thanks, i prefer the old way of earning XP at the end of the story. All in all, i cant recommend Chronicles of Darkness. You're much better playing FATE, which it clearly derives its mechanics ideas from, than the actual system. Its crunchy, clunky, resource heavy and has a lot of less lore than the previous setting. No wonder it sold much worse and White Wolf decided to revive the old scenario with Vampire 5th and Werewolf 5th coming soon.