The Bronze Age Collapse - The Wheel and the Rod - Extra History - Part 2

[@extrahistory]

After the Bronze Age collapse, we would not see societies so advanced for another half a millenium. What happened?

[@danemcneil1548]

Extra Credits the fire nation

[@ryanryanryansmith]

SEA PEOPLES

[@namingisdifficult408]

Dane McNeil indeed

[@Battle_Brother-e3v]

finally someone who presents this era easy to undestand

[@Pedrosa2541]

+Extra Credits Why Indus Valley Civilization is not listed between the collapsed civlizations?

[@deathdoor]

The feel when you are Ramesses II and your neighborhood friends one by one stop writing to and responding letters for from you...

[@fristi61]

The feel when you are Ramesses III and you finally get to meet the guys that killed your neighborhood friends. "As for those who reached my frontier, their seed is not, their heart and their soul are finished forever and ever. As for those who came forward together on the seas, the full flame was in front of them at the Nile mouths, while a stockade of lances surrounded them on the shore, prostrated on the beach, slain, and made into heaps from head to tail."

[@deathdoor]

Must feel good being Ramesses II then.

[@osagen95]

They are surely going out without you !

[@squamish4244]

Ramesses III and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.

[@duelgundam]

Wait over 3-4000 years, and laugh haughtily with the king of heroes.

[@repomandan07]

Amazing videos. Im a 46 year old man who loves this style of videos. My younger kids love them too. Honestly Ive learned more about history than when I was in high school. From these I go and research more about your subject. Please continue to make these videos. Again amazing +1

[@HxH2011DRA]

Dan Nickerson AWWWWWW this is great!

[@tuffylaw]

Dan Nickerson You should check out Hardcore History. it's a great podcast with very long, but really interesting episodes. He doesn't update that often, but it's so worth it.

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

Plus a lot of them are free.

[@warman13x]

Dan Nickerson I love that you share these videos with your children. If I'm ever fortunate enough to have kids some day, then I hope that I'll be able to show them these videos as well.

[@itstriplem2069]

Dan Nickerson try watching crash course. Its an awesome channel with subjects like math, science, history, biology, and more.

[@secretplatypusperry]

Challenge: Take a shot whenever he says "But what happens when..."

[@randallfernandall6534]

Perry Platypus just tried doing this with a dab and I almost greened out.

[@Jawad7178]

But what happens when we pass put from the drinking

[@harmonyferreira6183]

No please I wanna live!

[@ProdigyofEpistemology]

I wonder *what happens when* you do that.

[@davidtownsend6092]

When I die you'll be a murderer

[@Noelwiz]

“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.” - Robert Jordan, The Wheel of Time series

[@Diadin22]

noelwiz peter That's exactly what I was saying during the intro lol

[@ryantoth9887]

noelwiz peter Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

[@majormax13]

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills!

[@titobruckner5628]

Great Jordan homage; love it. (I would suggest hinting somewhere somehow that it was intentional so not to have it construed by some [see below] as plagiarism.) That said, though, I really love it.

[@nopenope5626]

I hate you so much its unreal, and you made me lose my hard-on. You'll pay for that. -Tankmen.

[@KaiserAfini]

In essence, its the same idea as in engineering: The more moving pieces you have, the easier it is for the mechanism to stop working correctly or break. They seemed to have a lot of sophisticated systems, but no contingencies that could be quiclky enacted in case of emergencies. But in all fairness, that is a big challenge even with modern logistics and scientific knowledge.

[@lelandunruh7896]

KaiserAfini There's a huge difference that isn't often appreciated--centrally-planned outfits are virtually always less dynamic and more given to catastrophic failure than free exchange of goods and services. A centralized economy is indeed one giant machine which can break if any given component wears down. A decentralized economy is a series of machines wherein any one wearing down is not a problem for the greater system--a new machine will take it's place as quickly as possible, because that is how money is made. Oddly, even people today often dont get this simple idea.

[@syedsufiyan4330]

Just what I was thinking ...most of the reasons for collapse would sound true if people were discussing the reason of the fall of the age we are living in right now...for example people are using satellite data to plant crops, to harvest fish what happens when that stops..what if the digital records that we keep of our data get corrupted causing the whole data and information-based economy to collapse.....that is a bit scary...

[@ericspencer8093]

Remove a single component from modern civilization: Oil, and it all collapses.

[@notaraven]

KaiserAfini I agree with your assesment but I feel like there is a sort of "vital lines" that, if they were to lose, would lead to the colapse. the 2 main courses is farming and the bronze trade. Organization, governmental power, armies, writing, everything else assists in these two lines and can act as "safe guards" but if need be could be weakened or done away with. The problem came when the majority of the countries were hitting an agricultural collapse do to thier farming practices causeing wars to move from dick measuring competitions to desperation to keep thier people fed. The destruction of the trade of bronze caused by said wars and the increasingly scarce tin production from over mining. All lead to everything else falling apart because the country could not feed or protect thier people as they use to.

[@notaraven]

@@ericspencer8093 I would say that it is not "as" bad as that. a variety of technology and options are within our grasp and is slowly lessening oils grasp. Solar, Wind, hydrolics and other techs are slowly getting better, not there yet though, and nuclear is a strong substitute for most of oils power production we would just need time to construct plants. If oils dissappears tomorrow we would all be all be for the most part screwed but if its gradually over the couse of 20-30 years the innovations and forsight would make it bearable though this would also spell doom for the oil producing nations

[@johnduale430]

I've got a horrible feeling that in 4000 years historians will be debating the great oil age collapse...

[@germen343]

John Dualé Horrible? Accelerate the collapse.

[@animeandstuff5377]

would be funny and how cares we need a more realeable eco friendly fuel source and the countries in power now just robbed oil so uk if they lose their power iz cool tho i live in a developed country myself haha

[@jakerelind5577]

@@animeandstuff5377 I hope English is not your first language.

[@MrGeocidal]

While oil running out would be devastating, something disrupted our electricity, plumbing and/or communication infrastructure would be even worse.

[@batenkait0s657]

@@jakerelind5577 so do I

[@SjogrenChristoffer]

Lessons like THIS is the whole reason why history is such an important part of any civilization. It's not just fun to learn about, but the knowledge of the history of our civilizations is the very foundation upon which it sits. Even if we might think of our society today as more robust and persistent, the same rules apply today as they did back in those days. If any one link of the chain breaks... everything may once again be lost...

[@Charmyte]

3:09 "And then what happens if you need to defend yourself?" H I R E A S A M U R A I

[@merrittanimation7721]

Then everyone will hire samurais!

[@tyjuji]

Thank God, there are actually people that understand double spacing between sentences when writing like that.

[@TheExperiment88]

lukenpaul only rich people hired samurais. Poor people who could not afford samurais did not hire samurais.

[@asadashinon6355]

Everyone was hiring samurai! Correction: Rich important people hired samurai. Poor people who could not afford to hire samurai did not hire samurai.

[@thingonometry-1460]

lukenpaul Gold. Pure gold 👌

[@obscurity6558]

The ability for an entire Age of History to collapse with just a few missteps in trade seems like an unbelievable outcome. After all, they had already advanced far enough to get rid of their sad, lumpy metal.

[@LaZodiac]

For want of a nail, my friend.

[@rjfaber1991]

On the whole, the trend throughout history has been one of increases. Increases in population, increases in living standards, increases in technological capablities, increases in knowledge, etc. However, this isn't a smooth, stable trend on a more zoomed-in level, where you see civilisations and societies advancing drastically, overstretching themselves, and falling back down again. Even though the Classical Age was better than the Ancient Age in almost every regard, the Middle Ages were better than the Classical Age, and the Modern Age is better than the Middle Ages, it is worth noting that for all the advancements taking place within those ages, they also all came to rather abrupt and catastrophic ends.

[@matthewhemmings2464]

Funny you say that, because there is very limited resources of Iron in these regions. The middle east and northern Africa is fairly mineral poor, plus as the video suggests, there is a complex quantity of reasons that pushed the end of this period. The ability for this entire age to collapse comes from the fact it was too big to fail. Population had boomed far beyond the natural capacity any region could support without a strong centralized power, and cities were too massive to continue running. Imagine a big city back then, with priests, scholars, artisans, merchants and nobles. If the trade network collapses, merchants loose their status, stop paying taxes to Nobles, which stop buying from the artisans, which in turn stop paying dime to priest, which stop paying scholars for their work. The entire civil society collapses, the city is unable to maintain its infrastructure, people leave the city, and the city is abandoned. Now, imagine numerous problems affecting the entire region, with every institution failing like dominos. There you have it: civilization collapse.

[@mariusdire]

Obscure History The more complex and finely tuned a machine gets, the smaller the piece of grit needed to bring it to a grinding halt. For example say there was a blight on the flax crop one year, lower yield of flax means a lower production of linen. That reduction in linen available means there's less available for trade, and if it's traded for the raw materials of bronze that means less bronze, thus less weapons and tools. If there's regional conflict you may prioritise weapons over tools, so farmers are using either substandard tools, broken tools or bare hands, leading to lower yields of more crops. Add that to depleting yields as mentioned in the video and suddenly things are a lot more shaky. People start becoming hungry and don't follow the command economy plan as they can't see the importance of growing flax if they're not getting bread. So again you can't trade enough goods to get enough of the materials for bronze you need. Eventually it spirals out of control.

[@Treviisolion]

If you're referring to Iron, pure iron is actually weaker than bronze. Since iron also has a higher melting point that also meant that it took millennium for people to figure out how to forge iron in the same way that bronze often was (which was melting it and putting it into a cast), to create cast iron. In the meantime they had to figure out how to beat a brick of semi-malleable material into the shapes you need. The first methods of refining the iron ore removed nearly all trace elements and was a labor-intensive project, involving hitting a hot iron ore, just barely hot enough to start melting away the impurities, with hammers over and over again to break it apart and let the slag melt away. It took a couple centuries afterwards to figure out how to increase the strength of that iron through various forging methods, and decrease the labor needed to refine iron ore by creating new furnaces that could melt the entirety of it to allow separation. It's likely that one of the reasons why the world started moving to iron was the bronze age collapse making it nearly impossible to make bronze since iron was relatively easier to get as you only needed one source and it is more common usually than other metals.

[@zuthalsoraniz6764]

This all is... kind of frightening, because modern societies are even more entangled and interdependent than the late bronze age societies. Sure, we nowadays have ways to predict and counteract various disasters that might collapse civilisation - but it is also extremely dependent on things like electricity and telecommunications networks.

[@NeoShameMan]

Zuthal Soraniz well time for you to see the document hypernormalization and look at tech leader building bunker and connect the dots

[@superduperisaac]

Zuthal Soraniz I know right? It's all one big complicated web, it's all connected, even if its not obvious at first.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

no need to fear, we have far more ressources and a far more stable system than the bronze age civilization

[@Luthies]

@The Rising Theurge. This might be true, but oil is still a resource that could bring it all crumbling down. Currently much of worlds transportation and trade relies on oil. Unless we can transition away from that to alternative sources then world will face massive upheaval within the next hundred years once oil reserves start to run out.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

Luthies Oil will be replaced by other resources, gas and many other resources will be offered as Alternative.

[@thebigbrzezinski]

"Knight of Letters" sounds kinda badass in a way.

[@sethcaplan859]

The infrastructure needed to maintain chariots is a bit more complex then that needed to maintain heavy cavalry. A single chariot is a team both of mean and horses who need to train together, the components needed to build and maintain the chariot itself are varied and include not only metal smiths but carpenters and engineers. Then because chariots cannot function all types of terrain you need accurate maps so that the army doesn't accidentally into a rocky gorge where the chariots cannot function.

[@TheAzureNightmare]

So what if the Stirrup came to mind, and Bridle/Saddle design was more advanced at that time?

[@SephirothRyu]

Indeed. Chariots were in some ways like the Bronze Age version of a fighter jet.

[@PJMM]

Really, what a beautiful and fascinating time in history. Thank you so much, Extra Credits team

[@mikep3180]

PJMM these videos are better than history class

[@bradf994]

teachers unofficially use youtube lots. Don't worry schools are already using extra credit history.

[@mrartdeco]

“More Specialists” “Less people who know how to make food” “International Trade” Oh no if something happen we will be doomed again

[@kimlp3950]

It is happening, we are doomed again. Our source of energy is limited and ending, overpopulation, lack of employment and wars... something is definitely going bad in our system. Something has to change, who knows if for the better P.s. and what about the climate change that WE created, caused by our industrial system🤯

[@HalNordmann]

The difference is that nowadays, we aren't as centralized. There is far more leeway if something breaks

[@cyan4845]

The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the Shadow... of that little shit Walpole

[@rainmaker9300]

Walpole is the Dark One? I knew it!

[@robertwalpole360]

You'll never get me! Woop, woop, woop, woop!

[@rainmaker9300]

Justinian I guess

[@TheAwakeOrangutang]

The fall of the Bronze was not the beginning. But it is A beginning.

[@merrittanimation7721]

I should really continue reading that series

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

I loved the allegory comparing warrior to scribe. High-skill positions benefit society greatly, but they are also a weak spot. Great video!

[@Onychoprion27]

Talking about how those societies operated reminded me a lot of the Tawanitsuyu, which then made me realize how awesome an Extra History of that empire would be.

[@MarkArandjus]

2:25 this art style is so simple but charming, a game with units like these could totally work!

[@airmanon7213]

The minute they made the comparison to oil in the modern world, I started to get the question, "How do we prevent a collapse like that from happening in our societies today?"

[@ethank5059]

We have alternatives to oil though. They may be more expensive but they are there. If oil quintupled in price we would stop burning it to generate electricity and it would be reserved for transportation and plastics. We would also build more electric vehicles which could be powered by coal, natural, wind, solar, nuclear or any other type of generation. It would cause a recession but it wouldn't destroy the world.

[@yogsothoth7594]

But electricity isn't the main thing would use oil for, most fossil fuel stations are coal or gas powered. The main thing is vehicles.

[@offduty23]

We don't. Instead, we prepare. Preparation is, in its own way, a form of prevention.

[@Croz89]

Oil is used for vehicles because it's energy dense and portable. If we can replicate those qualities we'll be fine.

[@yusong3306]

wonder how oil collaspe looks like? Just look at north korea, the lack of oil after 1991 quickly brought their agriculture down. Their agriculture was relying on fertilizer and machinery, both of which cannot exist without oil.

[@MossOwnsYouYT]

Just recently got into the Extra History segments and let me say, while I love learning about the cultures and events of our past, that intro is just so on point that I'd click each vid just to listen to those books sing.

[@PrimroseFrost]

I feel like half of this episode could have been summed up by telling people they should go play Pharaoh by Impressions Games. I just kind of nodded along like, "Yup, yes, I learned this all the hard way." Great game that taught me more than I even realized.

[@gustavszwarc217]

That whole games series is amazing! I spent many hours in Caesar 3.

[@willhuey4891]

god i remember playing pharoah as a kid.

[@Silver-Ellipsis]

Every single video I watch about the bronze age collapse makes me think of that game.

[@B0idh]

In the 1st episode of this series, you mentioned copper was a common resource in the ME but tin was very rare. You did mention there was an area in Turkey that supplied the tin, but you failed to mention Afghanistan also supplied much of the tin, as well as lapis lazuli, meaning a lot trade went to the east. Anyway, great episode. I love learning about the Bronze Age.

[@silencemeviolateme6076]

I imagine he didn't bring it up because we don't know the history of that part of the world as well. We know the bronze age collapse effected west Asia but we don't know about east Asia.

[@Psychol-Snooper]

It was greed from the top of Paradox Interactive that lead to the collapse... wait... where am I?

[@Psychol-Snooper]

@CommandoDude It's topical satire for people up on gaming news. Maybe a little trollish for PI fanboys. :P

[@accountisdeadnotbigsurpris3026]

Da. need Victoria 3. Must feed my post-napoleon complex.

[@victorhugothomaz3480]

I would prefer a Bronze Age Total War tho...

[@leon4339x]

Hearts of bronze

[@fedesoru7]

@@accountisdeadnotbigsurpris3026 your wish was granted

[@amazinglyanonymous5707]

I love how the barbarians say bar bar bar because that is literally how they were named. In Greece foreigners were called barbarians as their languages sounded like jibiris

[@xmvziron]

That's actually a folk etymology; the word probably originates from Proto-Indo-European

[@euttdsiggh2783]

This was wonderful! Its even better when you have translations, today i find out that you have one in Serbian language! Thanks to whoever did that, you are doing a great job!

[@OliveOilFan]

Extra credits should do a extra history on extra credits

[@MrDUneven]

Why let internet series in a way of keeping the secret that James is Walpole

[@robertwalpole360]

I approve of this! ;)

[@manetho5134]

Robert Walpole good day Mr prime minister

[@tiffyw92]

Boy, the connections to Walpole are REALLY easy. I wonder what they'll do for that part.

[@herobrinesblog]

.....so....its a story about upwards progress with no end

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

"A scribe is a knight of letters." If I ever manage to successfully get something published, I'm going to make sure this quote is inscribed on my gravestone.

[@SephirothRyu]

Alas, only Letter Knights will understand it.

[@writteninthestars1111]

"You're only as strong as your weakest link." This was very true for the Bronze Age.

[@firewolf1814]

In one of my middle school history classes we were given 3 months. A map. 2 rivers. 1 city for each team of 5 (Meaning 5 cities) and were told to command a bronze age civilization. It ended up with one in insanely fierce neutrality (They were the weakest). And the remaining 4 getting involved in a massive war involving the largest one being starved out, the smallest one getting obliterated and the second biggest basically just turtling for the whole war.

[@jcsantos6862]

Amogus

[@tonysladky8925]

"Knight of Letters" is one of the coolest mental images I've heard in a while. I'm going to have to steal that for something, though I don't know what yet…

[@kevinclass2010]

I mean, you need a propagandist along with your army.

[@kingofgames642]

Thanks!

[@extrahistory]

Thank you for all your support for the show King of Games! 😍

[@Anthintendo]

This is the third or fourth time I’ve rewatched this little series, and you know what just popped into my head? That trope in fiction of “lost advanced (for their time) civilizations.”

[@cathalhughes5996]

do you think they will be an oil age collapse?

[@HBHaga]

Given that the Saudi oil fields are in decline, a crisis is possible but there are plenty of other sources to take up the slack if/when they run out. It'd be a huge mess in the Middle East, though.

[@Krescentwolf]

There's been any number of fictional stories written on the idea of what happens when the oil runs out. That effectively IS an oil age collapse. So at the very least, it's within the realm of possibility.

[@ryan1000011]

it'll be more of an energy collapse. oil provides most of the energy at the moment but when it runs out other type aren't advanced enough to take over and the energy needed to continue to manufacture and research these things will go elsewhere to try and control the masses or keep food available to some. with out surplus energy we'd quickly lose the ability to keep up people phones and the internet which would in it's self course a collapse in todays world, we'd also lose the ability to trade on a global scale transport good any significant distance and the ability to keep the soil rich. to few people are left that could even have knowledge on how to replace these systems with what was used before the engine was made. riots would spark millions would die with-in the 1st year people would re-sort to harsh measures to feed themselves and loved ones and it would take generations for the world to recover as knowledge and schooling would be lost until the population of the world dropped to whats naturally sustainable with-out human interference then re-building would happen. This is if a alternative energy source isn't found before the oil runs out though, if it is oil will be of little concern.

[@ohooho3120]

Stonersloth Hughes depends if we can move to renewable resources fast enough and we are moving to them pretty fast not to mention that as the coal industry declines more people will move over to renewable resources out of necessity

[@toboterxp8155]

If oil indeed starts running out, the prices will start rocketing, wich in turn will boost other technologies. It wouldn't be a collapse, but rather a major set back. And there are still enormous amounts of oil available in locations where it is at the moment to expensive to use, but with rising oil prices it might become a viable option. Same goes for one or two countries cutting of oil trades.

[@kylepearson9505]

8:08 all I can think about is the prince of Egypt. “But one weak link can break the chain of a mighty dynasty!”

[@DrTssha]

Wow. This outro actually made me cry. Brought real tears to my eyes. Well done.

[@Lazarus1095]

It sounds very much like the problem being described here is ossification. Lack of class mobility would prevent people from one class rising up and stepping in to do the job people from another class were no longer capable of doing.

[@silencemeviolateme6076]

But you always wind up top heavy like today. Life can only get better for everybody for so long.

[@vianneymichelet9083]

Love the show! Just completed French subtitles, they're good for review. Keep going with the good work!

[@lucasjohnson1277]

Notifications from Extra Credits make my day :)

[@felix_forrester]

Thank you again for covering my favorite part in all of history. It's such a massive amount of effort for you to embark, and so appreciated by those of us that need storytellers to lift up us wannabees to your level. People focus on the fall of the Roman Empire as the go-to analogy for what we're in danger of now, but I've always thought the Bronze Age is what we should be focusing on. The internet gets crippled or worse, is somehow done away with in its current form- and we're potentially set back centuries at best.

[@jonbaxter2254]

This is fascinating. An ancient civilisation just disappearing, it's like something in a novel

[@SephirothRyu]

That's not all. Consider that the time immediately after the collapse finished, well, collapsing was basically the closest we ever had to a D&D setting in real life. Lost ruins all around, some still holding treasures and forgotten secrets. There may have been no wizards magicking around, but it was a brief period of time where some people probably were in fact getting by like D&D adventurers for a living.

[@IntoTheOrdinary]

This is a fantastic topic! It puts so much into perspective and touches on many big topics such as writing, power and food. Keep it up EH peeps!

[@jahhger]

Run that’s some deep stuff, this reminds me of the quote from civ6 “it was air conditioning that brought down the fall of the Roman Empire. With air conditioning, their windows were closed,they couldn’t hear the barbarians coming. “

[@danielbazinga5775]

This is genuinely more comprehensive an analysis than every book I've ever read on this subject, all of which just go "We don't really know, but here's some archaeological evidence with zero analysis of it."

[@XenonXs]

Is it possible to place references or sources each episode? It would be great if my teacher could use this, but in order for her to actually show it, it must have credible sources.

[@jarredmace1080]

Almost fairly positive they're probably using "1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed" by Eric Cline as a major source.

[@extrahistory]

We've had quite a bit of internal staff debate about whether/how we should share the sources we've used when writing these series. The biggest reason why we haven't made efforts to publicly share a citation list for every series is because we often get requests from students who are looking for a quick-and-easy list to cite for an assignment, and one of our biggest hopes is that Extra History will inspire people to conduct their own research, discover multiple narratives, and even challenge our interpretation of events (in polite and sincere language of course!), rather than letting a single KZbin channel do all the work. ;) But again, this is something we continue to go back and forth on internally, and we definitely do want these videos to be in an educator's toolbox for their classroom needs. Thank you for sharing your feedback on this important question. --Belinda (Community Manager)

[@Vanalovan]

Extra Credits I appreciate the concern but having a place to start research that is both up to date, scholarly and accessible is often the first stumbling block for independent research. Maybe y'all don't need citations but I think a works referenced page released during the "Lies" episode would be a fantastic resource for people.

[@InfernGame]

John Sales IIRC, they announced on Patreon that they are planning to include a list of references under each video.

[@hanssmirnov9946]

+InferGame Oh, cool. Before they were avoiding that, so that people couldn't use these as school-material.

[@Carewolf]

One of the features I have always wanted in Paradox games is simulating the difference in narrow top-down and wide bottom up advancements. It really made a huge difference between civilization and nations, especially under pressure.

[@kentamidorin]

Oh boy. I've always been fascinated by these

[@fenhen]

I've always wondered why Chariots came before proper cavalry. The answer has blown my mind, thank you.

[@Sunboi_Paladin]

"Wait a minute... OUR society relies on similar technologies and complex systems."....*takes a drink for the fragility of society*

[@lucianocastrogiovanni2879]

Jeez, I haven't been this excited to be hearing about history in years. Thank you EC.

[@dvklaveren]

One reason why people weren't being taught to write was; a literate people is a people that is more socially mobile. While I am not suggesting that Egypt actively suppressed people's ability to learn the written word, I think that history selected literate sprouting civilization for extinction for one reason or another, while a class-divided civilization was more likely to survive. I think that there is some quality that civilizations would need to attain before they would be capable of sustaining a large literate population. Be it because it takes a lot of resources and a lot of leisure to be literate or because literate peoples are more likely to splinter; economic efficiency needed to reach a tipping point for literacy to be able to perpetuate. The more efficient an economy is, the more time is left for segments of the population to maintain their literacy. And one of the ways to make an economy more efficient is if literacy is high. So it serves to study the collapse of the bronze age. It is possible that this is where civilizations were still bumping against that tipping point and that certain technological discoveries would have to be made before the upward spiral of literacy and economic efficiency would become, in itself, efficient.

[@linklgas1691]

*Please stop being such a god-level content creator to make me look better.* (JK, I love your videos. They teach me a lot!)

[@Alexeiyeah]

I hope they will make a series on Minoan. Maybe an one-off overview. But THEY were the proto-proto greeks, so it would be great to see it.

[@AirCicilia]

Great artwork, awesome presentation, very motivating to delve deeper into the hows and whys of history.

[@Thoreaux]

Bar bar bar!

[@AegixDrakan]

Barian! Barian! Barian!

[@KnightofRome01]

Spotted the non-classics major! lol

[@fawwazn.1244]

Thoreaux Barry! Barry! Barry!

[@kennymartin5976]

Buh-Barbarian, Buh-Buh-Barbarian. Buh-Barbarian, Buh-Buh-Barbarian!!

[@TheTariqibnziyad]

Thoreaux bar bar barbarians at tje gate (inside the gate)

[@hoelbling18]

I am a big fan of your extra history series and this one was one of the best so far, thanks for breaking a creative deadlock in my thesis work, consider me a patreon as soon as I am getting a steady job.

[@jordanfitzmaurice6658]

When I heard 'the wheel turns', my first thought was; "The wheel of time turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memory that becomes legend, and legend that becomes myth, until the age that gave birth to it comes again."

[@VercilJuan]

where was this quote from?

[@jordanfitzmaurice6658]

@@VercilJuan The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan, and finished by Brandon Sanderson.

[@Explorer982]

great video. The parallels with our own age are striking ! The connections you make are fantastic for getting students to see the relevance of history !

[@evan448]

well thats one of the problems of intense irrigation in such a arid climate when the water evaporates it leaves some amount of salt on the soil gradually making the land infertile

[@Nickdee21]

When I played the original Rome Total war, I noticed a correlation between adding irrigation systems leading to high squalor and eventually revolts. Love seeing that kind of stuff come full circle in history !

[@Ryukachoo]

8:05 this OST is (on)fire

[@jeffjeff5719]

Ryukachoo yeah man

[@sriaks24]

Thanks! You guys are doing a great job.

[@markhenley3097]

The similarity between the Bronze Age Civilisations needing Bronze to sustain themselves and the modern World needing oil is quite striking. Most crude oil comes from the Middle East, North America and Russia, but oil refining cannot happen without metal, or educated people who come from Europe and NA. Then transportation, cars are built elsewhere, and so are the raw materials needed for them. If there was a breakdown in trade, or partial collapse in some countries, a complete collapse like that of the Bronze Age could occur.

[@akrybion]

Damn, this probably could be the second most interesting series after Admiral Yi! I love this incredibly old history, it's like a look into an entirerly different world.

[@Manawolfman]

I always found it odd how the simple horseback rider outpaced the chariot. You're using less, yet getting more out of your military unit, perhaps simply because learning how to ride horseback became more proficient as time went on. The Huns certainly used chariot archers to deadly effect, and dragoons even later.

[@chitragatha-anshudeepdhusi5752]

Huns had chariot archers? Please tell more about it?

[@D-me-dream-smp]

Fantastic job at summarising such a complex situation. I feel smarter already. Thanks

[@rebelbeammasterx8472]

I guess there's truth to the Atlantis Story. Just it wasn't an island, rather a whole continent.

[@ItRemindMeOfHome]

I think a good way to look at the Bronze Age, and all other eras of history, as a trial run for some development. The Bronze Age was the first real attempts at centralized governments, with all the benefits and drawbacks that come from centralized government. No one knew how to do any of this, they were making it up as they went along. As such, they made the mistakes which later societies would overcome. As civilizations emerge and die, they leave behind lessons for later civilizations to follow through their failures.

[@TheSkyRender]

I do love analysis of societal shortcomings. It really brings to light just how much designing an effective society is akin to writing a good piece of software. And much like poorly-planned software, a poorly-planned societal structure can and will fall apart very quickly if conditions aren't exactly right. To see a programming example of this, take a look at Final Fantasy VI. That game works very well, as long as you do exactly what the game expects you to do. But as soon as you go off the rails, as soon as even one of the game's numerous game-breaking glitches takes hold, the whole thing just falls apart on itself. It still functions, but very poorly, and definitely not in a way that allows you to actually complete the game. The developers never really considered the possibility of anyone doing the things that trigger these glitches, thus they didn't plan for what to do if said glitches did trigger. In society and programming both, you need to be aware of possibilities, and of shortcomings in your design that can lead to complete system failure.

[@Erika-gn1tv]

And since every game can be broken, well...

[@hagamapama]

I think we can all agree that these ancient peoples did a very good job organizing their societies, after all, they lasted for centuries. The thing is just like designing software, sooner or later you have to accept flaws. There is no such thing as a fully-featured program that is flawless. Flaws can make the bug list but also can simply be features that if not outright bugs are still not ideal from a design standpoint. If you do not accept a few flaws in the programming you can't get anything done. And maybe you can patch them later, maybe you had to commit to decisions that make that impossible. it depends on what you're trying to build. And when you're trying to build something as huge and messy and unpredictable and chaotic as a society, and you're not the only one making decisions -- good luck. I think the Bronze Age civilizations did some amazing work at keeping everything together, successfully entropy for generations until whatever group of flaws brought things to a head finally became severe enough that there was no choice left but to pull the plug and start to develop version 2.0.

[@Petros98223]

you are incorrect about your anlaogy, macro economies do not function as designed or planned transactions, they can not. software and machinery are actually designed by humans, intended for a specific purpose (a rather narrow one at that). Free market economies are very complex and can not be controlled or they will fail. Not a single "top down" economy in history has ever been prosperous, certainly not like what see with these empires. Free markets work best when individuals are free to fill a need, a nitch, fill a demand, provide goods and services, as well as introduce new products (i.e. prosper off of your innovations). We see all of these things during the bronze age, continual improvement in technology, prosperity and trade, driving toward specialization and complexity. Only in "natural" processes do you see complexity flourish. the controlled "top down" economy is an idiotic modern myth invented by all of the socialist collage professors who study ancient cultures. they want it to be true so they write it into their theories. No evidence for it, and they misinterpret the obvious facts they find in the ruins and digs. See my posting on this topic.

[@KaletheQuick]

"A scribe is like a knight of letters" And like that I pop out my calligraphy set. Time to binge calligraphy vids.

[@ShePudding]

With COVID-19 tearing through my local economy, our only saving grace seems to be that we are part of a wider nation that can support 30% of everyone losing their job, and more besides forced to close. If we were just individual nation-states, would this be our tipping point? The one that forced us to regress technologically, or even be consumed by a stronger neighbor? Hmm...

[@alexitosworld]

Great episode! I'm still thinking about when you talk about horses not being big enough to carry knights. Never thought about that!

[@jelmargerritsen]

Next time: Sea peoples?!

[@maxmustermann9058]

I think this is already one of the better series and it is just the second episode

[@luqcrusher]

Wow. Thank you for broadening our perspectives, EH. Off the top of my head, I can quickly draw a comparison between the Bronze Age and the present: The Internet. Nowadays, perhaps people across the globe pride themselves on how easy it is to access and use information over the Internet, leading to economic growth, intellectual growth, advanced record keeping and amazing collaboration and connectivity with the entire planet. Everyone assumes this must be a good thing. But just as it was for the Bronze Age, this may too lead to our downfall. As our lives increasingly depend on the Internet, what will happen if one day it suddenly just disappears...? (shudder)

[@jenalano4031]

LuqmanLSG it won't

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

LuqmanLSG I think that the internet has become too big to fail. I mean to fail all at once. The only way I can see this happening is if Earth was hit by a really powerful solar flare.

[@Luthies]

Oil is a much better comparison than Internet honestly. Internet would only "go away" because of a disaster, at which point we would probably have other issues. However oil is the foundation of the current global trade, and it's running out. Unless we transition away from oil within a hundred years or so...well, Fallout games might suddenly not be that fictional.

[@hanssmirnov9946]

Yup... Check out Money as Debt, and, A Requiem for the American Dream, if you want to see how the world is heading for Greece's economic collapse.

[@Neura1net]

Fantastic. Thank you for this video.

[@smitty.w483]

Now the phenicians can get down to business !

[@wublesmoop6125]

Phoenicians*

[@WannabeCanadianDev]

They had a punny time of it.

[@edwardaucay8597]

MB luna Also can we switch to something that is a little easier to find, thanks

[@GuKingGu]

I can't quite tell if you're making a Punic reference there...

[@diegocassola1]

A lot of people are studying the history of the entire world, I guess

[@c3wichman]

This takes a whole new meaning with the C19 situation

[@NoiLeafGreen]

But what happens when a phrase is used a million times in a single video?

[@merrittanimation7721]

NoiLG Walpole

[@EdbertWeisly]

Wat

[@prof.cecilycogsworth3204]

Excellent, simply excellent.

[@theo1856]

*Every sentence:* So basically they had this really great thing that was so amazing! But what if they didn't have anyone to run these great things!?!?!?

[@beautifulandmostbrave7852]

This series eerie af.

[@Roadhouse-h1v]

Fr tho

[@TheDatadestroyer]

Ahh, another suspenseful game of Jenga wherein everything goes to shit anyway.

[@TheTariqibnziyad]

this is real history !!! this channel is lit !!!

[@caf_thetermit]

Of course it was walpole hes everywhere hes right now in my backyard! Also cool show Extra Credits

[@robertwalpole360]

*Waves to you from your backyard*

[@matthewvanryt8492]

Probably the best stand-alone Extra History episode so far guys. Fantastic work.

[@LordCHull]

lol Imagine when modern society faces significant food collapses with everyone specialized outside of farming we are so boned.

[@jukahri]

That wouldn't happen though. The free market balances itself, if there's not enough food, food prices go up, becoming a farmer becomes a lot more profitable, and a lot more people become farmers.

[@JellybellyWaffles]

We can also use the internet to learn how to farm.

[@Balsiefen]

The free market doesn't make more farm land appear and it doesn't repair soil degradation. The number of farmers is not the limiting factor.

[@Obzerver]

I know very little about economics but one would assume that a similar argument could be applied to that issue: Not enough farm land means research into new farming technologies become more valuable so more people research these and we get more efficient farms. Also vertical farms are already a somewhat common thing.

[@hagamapama]

Balsiefen It's not the limiting factor, but at the moment, neither is land. At the moment many Western governments are heavily restricting the amount of land that can be used for farming as a way to prop up food prices. There's food to use and food to waste and food to give away right now, so much so that there's a concern that by the time we might need them again in all their numbers, there won't be enough farmers left to rise to the challenge, thus they are subsidized. Nearly every source of starvation in this world can be put down to politics rather than supply. If we needed to quadrule the global food output we could do it. EASILY. Of course all that means is that food supply is not going to be the first domino. But still.

[@yep4704]

I'm getting chills. This us

[@Mewseeker]

How effective the chariots were? In the Old Testament, it is mentioned that the Jews couldn't completely defeat their oponnent (the Philistines if I recall correctly?) because they had chariots. You know, the guys who had God on their side (or at least had Him on their side when they weren't worshipping gods from other nations).

[@Carewolf]

This still slaughtered them and took their land. So I guess it worked out. That part of the bible really surprised me as a kid.

[@madogthefirst]

It ain't so much they are effective it is that you on foot won't be able to out run them. I heard once that ancient charriots were like battle taxies fresh troops to the fight. then there are those that also worked as archers long range hit and run. Chariots themselves are highly situational only able to effectively manuvor in open plains, they were too heavy for other terrian and the grade be too steep in hilly parts. This is why the Israelites in one part of the bible took to the top of hills and such if they were going to face chariots.

[@Dakka1968]

Id take cataphracts over chariots anyday. CHAAARRRRGGGEEEEEEE

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Charge? What frankish nonsense is this? A slow trot is what any honest roman would use.

[@GhengisFreud]

Wow you should do the history of the horse! That chariot fact was pretty interesting

[@JusticeForPottsvilleMaroons]

1:15 WELL THAT'S NOT FUCKING OMINOUS

[@everything4304]

Who knew history was this fascinating.

[@TheCommunistManatee]

Small nit pick: at around the 6:40 mark you talk about soil degradation being a problem of the past, and it was a problem historically, but modern agricultural techniques are still resulting in massive soil degradation. Here in the UK the current best estimate was recently found to be something like 100 harvests left before our soil just becomes infertile. Oh and to make it clear, I'm not anti GMO (I think they could be really helpful to combatting this issue) and I'm not saying that being 100% organic would be better, just that soil degradation remains a big environmental issue that is often ignored.

[@Luthies]

They never said that problem doesn't exist currently, only that modern technology improves the situation.

[@hanssmirnov9946]

Good catch, was going to comment on this myself. Ironically, we still have PLENTY of farmland to produce MORE than enough food. But a lot of food is destroyed to manipulate prices, and companies don't make money by feeding the hungry or caring for the widow and orphan as God told them to.

[@Carewolf]

The is why the EU pay farmers to let their soil fallow.

[@hagamapama]

Sorry, organic doesn't mean soil-safe. Farming without pesticide is organic, but you can overplant an area and still call it "organic." Organic farming is a bit of a solution looking for a problem as it is, it's great for people who want to feel good about what they eat but it's not an answer to soil degradation

[@TheCommunistManatee]

Absolutely! Although I do wish the CAP was a bit more effective on things like this (in case this is a Brexit thing I'm a remain voter)

[@MrSister127]

Good lord man, the more you talk the more parallels I see between the late bronze age and today

[@hagamapama]

This is just a guess, but I think it's a good one. You know the meme about "lost lore of the ancients?" The one that seems to inform even a lot of very modern fiction? I think that's a cultural memory of the people after the bronze age collapse., who knew that the world used to be better place but not how to get there from here.

[@populatethemoon]

It's so wierd and amazing to think that a civilization can be so advanced for its time that it cannot sustain itself. Coming up with contigency plans, not realizing that your contingency plans need contingency plans. Really mind racing stuff.

[@robinkristiansen6578]

but why did the top of the pyramid explode???

[@ZanathKariashi]

Aliens???? Or at least that's what the history channel would leave one to believe...or Russian hacking...one of the other.

[@robinkristiansen6578]

those goddamn illegal aliens at it again!!!

[@Luthies]

That literally is the "Mystery" in the "Mystery of the Bronze Age Collapse". We don't know what fell the first domino.

[@hanssmirnov9946]

The Israelites. We found their towns, their tombs, and a record complaining about the foreigners and salves leaving with the gold jewelry of the nobility. And every house is in mourning, and they complain about something to do with water and blood. Look at _Exodus: Patterns of Evidence,_ if you want to see all the evidence reviewed.

[@RiverVink]

the globalists

[@pgraterol]

This videos are the best of the week!! They make ancient history so interesting! I'm a big fan of the study of the 20th century, but with this series I'm getting into more ancient studies. Does anyone have any reading recommendations?

[@toddvogel8887]

When i read "The Wheel and the Rod" all i could think of was those old memes of the guy riding a bike and putting a bar in the wheel so he crashes and blames it on Obama or whatever.

[@ADHDtj]

I liked the sorta WoT refference in the intro, nice touch.