The Burn Card in Blackjack: What Do You Do About It?

You sit down at a blackjack and the dealer puts the first card into the discard tray. What the heck just happened? If you’re a card counter, how does that affect the running count? In this video, Colin breaks down what a burn card is, why they do it, and what to do about it.
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[@PAYD-UD]

I always asks to see the burn, but in a "gambly" "im just here to have fun" way to avoid any immediate heat. AKA "Watch, the burn is gonna be a 7, which always guarantees a good shoe! "Lets see the burn!"

[@PotatoGod69]

Interesting

[@jeffeyjeffey8]

I usually do the same thing but sometimes I don’t ask, just depends how the vibe is.

[@shacknastyjimp5986]

I am card counter....this guy is legit. No bullshit.

[@brandonchristen2472]

As a dealer I always show the burn card, been doing it for over two years and management never said not to.

[@szymi131]

where do you deal?

[@anthonygusman3439]

Doing God's work 👏 appreciate people like you

[@brandonchristen2472]

@@szymi131 New Hampshire. Our casinos are smaller as the limit you can do is $200 a hand. Not worth card counting up here when you can go to Massachusetts with no limit. But the nice thing about NH casinos is that in order to exist they have to donate 33% each month to local charities.

[@ionalien]

Using a baccarat burn against a card counter is hilarious

[@EricSmyth2Christ]

😂 😂 😂

[@imurgodsgod]

What is a baccarat burn?

[@ionalien]

@@imurgodsgod in the game baccarat, instead of burning a single card, the dealer burns a card face up, which then determines how many more cards to burn face down.

[@JuneRaeder-MacKinnon]

I enjoy your videos. I've tried card counting, but it took the fun out of blackjack. I guess I am a gambler. Since moving from WI to TX the closest casino is 8 hours away. Now I go to Vegas to get my fun. Keep the videos coming. I enjoy hearing how other card count. Last winter was the first time I saw a player being backed off. He was told in front of the table he could play anything in the casino except blackjack. Both parties were civil and the guy left. He had only been at the table a half hour and won $400.but he may have played other tables.

[@lehampton1]

The best way I heard it put is to consider the burn card(s) the same as the cards at the end of the shoe behind the cut card; ignore them. Add it to the penetration yes, but don’t guess how the count should be affected.

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Exactly.

[@emmanuelhoule8070]

I would add that the exact term best describing this concept is 'Unknowns'. If for example you play poker and have a flush draw on the flop, with 35% chances of hitting your flush (11 outs left (13 outs in total minus the 2 that you hold/know)), it doesn't matter how many people folded before you or how many people hold cards after you. It doesn't increase or decrease your 35% chance of hitting, since these cards are 'unknown'. So the best way is also the most simple. Simply ignore 'Unknowns'

[@chronitized]

Awesome guys, cant wait to watch this!

[@DudeWilson]

Always wondered about this, thanks! 👌🏽

[@donaldthe1801]

Thanks Colin, your still the best.

[@jayryan2900]

Great video! Very interesting! Thank you!

[@willyfisterbottom6246]

You have great videos, thank you!! Very helpful

[@muasboy]

Holy smokes...thank u..i ran into the ‘baccarat burn’ a few months back...i didn’t know it was called that I didn’t play, cause I didn’t know if it mattered or not..now I know that it doesn’t matter

[@trentongesler9637]

I also had this happen a little while back. But the casino shows the cards that they pulled out. It was a 6 card shoe. They pulled a 6 out and then pulled 6 low cards. So before the game even started I had a count of +7. Somehow this was going to stop a card counter.

[@SirJoelsuf1]

@@trentongesler9637 LMAO wow

[@joemiller95]

That was actually quite interesting.

[@1251176]

Great content!

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Thanks!

[@qanonsarmy4577]

Thanks for all the great info over the years still watch old videos got to stay on point

[@robs4530]

At my casino you can ask to see the burn card so always ask if your at a new spot

[@punkforlifenazul]

Colin here in Mexico is very common that casinos burn not only 1 but 5 cards at the beginning of the shoe, same for 8 deck games and 6 deck games, I try to avoid those casinos and only play in the ones that burn only 1 card and have the best rules posible, the bad thing is there are very few :/

[@zerobits4763]

En el winland de Monterrey queman 3 cartas

[@sebastiandierks7919]

Should maybe point out that if they burn up to quarter of deck with the Baccarat burn, it becomes relevant that you should mentally remove the burn cards from the discard tray when you do your deck estimation for the TC conversion.

[@andrewleeadkins93]

In casinos in WV all the casinos went to out state gaming commission and burn cards between dealers was removed as a rule

[@dfespozo]

i trust this guy!!! this guy is real advantage player.!! im so sorry for my self i cannot be cardcounter because i have more on the gambler side!! more power for your team and god bless😁

[@ricardotrimarchi2702]

I remember in Mohegan Sun They Show Burn without asking

[@MondoLeStraka]

Colin, lol, whenever someone says "the order of the cards" I almost start to flip out. Not the way you meant it but the way ploppies do.

[@bertgreen3287]

Sheldon Coope

[@MondoLeStraka]

@Sheldon Cooper There's also this thing that most dealers, like anyone else, picks up false patterns in events.

[@blackjackkhanofcasinomongo1586]

The first card burned out of the shoe is usually shown like in Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun

[@chriscarlone527]

I always ask to see the burn. They have their suspicions of me but they haven't backed me off yet.

[@abrahammontesdeoca4666]

in my country they burn 7 cards to start and 1 every dealer change. does that affect my count?

[@BrianStDenis-pj1tq]

Do you think/expect casino's to go to 6 or 8 deck shoes, but deal only 1 or 2 of the decks, reducing deck penetration substantially? Peak true counts will be smaller. Of course, if they go to continuous shuffle, counting is defeated. Is that going to be wide spread?

[@andyland27]

I've never seen a baccarat burn in my life 😛 but maybe they never thought we were worthy of such a technique 😝

[@chuckschillingvideos]

Me either. Must be a regional thing.

[@6god68]

@@chuckschillingvideos Its a Colin thing, when they see Colin they get callin!

[@tylerabbott7108]

How do you take the seriousness of the count based on penetration of the cut card? For example, If cut card is shallow, does count really matter or does it only give advantage the more decks are played? Theoretically you could have a high count but the deck or two after the cut could be loaded with high cards.

[@andrewmccullough559]

That's a good question. The location of the cut card doesn't affect the play up to the cut card, which marks the end of that shoe. What a deep cut (poor penetration) does is deprive you of the best chance for the extreme high and extreme low true counts which make you more money. Do you know true vs running count? The running count is the difference in relative number of high and low cards played. A +5 running count means there are 5 more high cards remaining in the deck than low cards. True count is what we bet on, because it matters whether those surplus 5 good cards are distributed throughout 1 remaining deck or 5 remaining decks. True count = running count divided by decks remaining, which is a measure of the concentration or "density" of good or bad cards as dealt, i.e. is more indicative of our odds of getting one of those good cards on a given next hand. Toward the end of the shoe, as # of decks remaining gets very small, think about what happens: as the denominator get smaller, the ratio (running count / decks remaining) gets larger. This means more extreme high counts, as well as extreme negative counts. But we can make more off the extreme highs than we lose on the extreme lows, including by leaving the table for extreme lows, so this situation favors the player. To your point about possibly getting a bunch of good cards even when the count is low - yes, this can happen, and I think it is more likely to happen (there is more opportunity for it to happen) when you have longer to play due to a shallow cut. But, variance! Hahaha. What matters is not what can happen, but what happens on average or in the long run.

[@glasson65]

Your app just had an update, the fastest dealing speed seems like it’s faster! :-)

[@roberthudson8389]

What app?

[@celticwarrior4christ]

Update on your book release?

[@muasboy]

Hi Colin. Would you make a video on a ‘pitched’ BJ game. Usually found in single and double decks I have times where I missed deviations/plays, because other players didn’t want to show me their cards. Or am I wrong? Does it matter if I see their cards or not. The one that bugs me the most is the insurance...if they would’ve shown me their cards. Then the TC would have gone pass a true 3. I’ve lost big bets because of this. Just need some of your thoughts on these pitched games. Thank u

[@russlehman2070]

A pitch game where you are not seeing the other players' first two cards does reduce the extra edge from strategy deviations a bit compared to a game dealt face up, but keep in mind that the primary source of your edge when counting is from sizing your bets, and you have the same information in both types of games when you make that decision.

[@dagestanifive]

I know some casinos, especially online live dealer ones at the start of the game pull out like 10 cards, and show 1 face up, whats the purpose of this.. and does it hurt the count?

[@danielyuan9862]

no, it doesn't hurt the count at all, but playing online is kinda suspicious

[@SirJoelsuf1]

I've always wondered if it would give myself away as an AP is I ask the dealer to show the burn card. Is that a thing?

[@zerooath]

The only thing that really gives a player away as an advantage player is low-high bet swings. A lot of people THINK they can count cards and you can spot them a mile away. That's why the best deterrent to card counting is to just flat bet the player.

[@thomasgiuliani3831]

so if the casino where i go burn the first 5 cards no matter?

[@roccoprice4288]

Why is it not a big deal if you burn 1 - 9 cards at the beginning of a shoe for card counters but it is a massive deal if your running count is off by 1 or 2? Isn't it essentially the same thing? Eseentially I am not counting the first hand of a shoe and somehow that doesn't make a difference to my advantage?

[@hersheyskwertz9315]

So if I have a running 16 with 4 decks left with a deck and a half penetration and decide to put the next 26 face cards towards the penetration to keep a high running count, that would justify me playing my bigger bets longer?

[@danielyuan9862]

I don't quite know what you're saying. You seem to be saying that if the next 26 face cards are stalled to keep a high running count. You would bet bigger for longer? The thing is, if you stall the big cards, then you would know that the next cards would be neutral or low cards, which is the equivalent of having a negative true count, but once you hit your face cards, the "true count" would return to normal, or even higher. The thing is, that never happens when counting cards. While counting cards, the probability density of the shoe is always the same thorough the shoe, but the density itself is changed by the count.

[@Poundcakebowler]

I’ve requested sight of the burn card at casinos and they show it.

[@CompletekTraining]

But I thought you can only be off by 1 in your count? How does this apply to that statement?

[@trevonlynum2785]

colin when you go to different casinos do you get the membership card for that casino?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Rarely at this point.

[@trevonlynum2785]

colin another question I thought of. when you play bj do you go to the casino with a certain dollar amount you want to achieve or do you go in with a amount of hours you want to play

[@cava-ft2vi]

Do you know why in Asia they scrab totally manual shuffered bj?

[@Joecuzzi]

My local card room burned 11 cards yesterday and Ive never seen them ever do a bacarat burn. I did go with two buddies so maybe they thought we were a team lol

[@sylthaya7571]

If you see someone marking the aces and 10s with their fingernail or something, and you take advantage of knowing that the good cards are marked, but you didn’t mark them yourself, is it still cheating? Cause to me it sounds like the same thing as If you just caught the dealers card when they peeked or dealt.

[@juanmalone8053]

Of course it's cheating....the question is how does it affect your conscious.

[@jackmason9360]

Anyone have any suggestion for Vegas? :)

[@6god68]

So are you suggesting that it may be fine to enter a game after 1-3 hands are dealt and take into consideration the penetration?

[@whyarewestillhere8562]

I guess the more the decks are the less it will affect your EV

[@6god68]

@@whyarewestillhere8562 My question really didnt make sense but i just learned about wonging so thats essentially what i meant and want to do!!

[@lindencamelback2305]

Played in the 60's post Thorp, and always ignored the burn card.

[@danielwan2410]

1:50 watch the discard pile

[@Alanaboo912]

They usually show the burn card if you just ask

[@jackmason9360]

I love the skip @5:11 and the discard pile magically is half of what it was lol

[@staygulf83]

We don’t have burn cards in the UK. The first card is dealt to the player.

[@Methy_Watches]

just ask to see the burn card. they always show it in my city.

[@thomasr1051]

Do the casinos pay attention to other advantage gaming or is most of the effort to stop card counting and cheating

[@danielyuan9862]

Casinos dislike all advantage play, because they don't want to lose money XD

[@pranavnaik1068]

Hi Colin, I have been playing Blackjack for over 3 yrs in Colorado and every time a new game starts the dealer cuts about 2 to 2 and half decks for almost every casino here. Is that massively disadvantageous ??

[@DominicFerri]

I'm not Colin, but I'll answer 😂😂. Essentially, 1 deck penetration is pretty average. Anything less is fantastic. 1 1/2 deck penetration is kinda crossing the line but you can still get a good game. 2 decks or more, I would 100% avoid. Us card counters want as much cards to come out of the shoe as possible. When casinos cut off that much, we don't get as accurate of information as we can.

[@kevinholguin3373]

In a shared bankroll can two players on a team play at the same table or would that be conidered overbetting?

[@estar8204]

It’s unnecessary to play at the same table. It’s always better to have one player at each table. Maybe you might lose at your table but your team mate could be winning at another. It’s just better odds

[@xanol2780]

At my local casino, burn cards aren’t shown to the players. If a player asks however, the dealer will show the card. Is it better to ask for this card (knowing you may gain heat) or better to simply have one less card known.

[@danielyuan9862]

If you want to play "normally", you should ask for the burn card. But if you want some cover, depending on how much cover you get, it may be worth not knowing the card if you don't have to worry about getting backed off.

[@Jujub826]

Is worth counting in Spanish 21?

[@Mike-hf8kq]

What are the odds of there ever being a positive count? You are at -32 from start with no 10's

[@Mike-hf8kq]

Those miniscule extra odds don't begin to make up for the disproportionate # of low cards to high cards.

[@Mizai]

why are there holes in your cards

[@thatgreatbanter4918]

Quick question.. are you even allowed in casinos anymore?

[@ussgordoncaptain]

He's allowed in my casino, we bring 2 decks per dealer and 1 gets auto shuffled while the game is going on. As long as you shuffle in between every hand (much easier with automatic card shufflers) he won't steal any money. Rude patrons are FAR worse to a casino than winning patrons. If you lose 2 keno players because you kicked a card counter in a rough way out you lost money.

[@brandongriffith4255]

Jackpot NV doesn't do burn cards at all.

[@88KeysIdaho]

That's my go-to (Barton's 93). Lots of single deck games dealt with a cut card, so you don't usually know those cards either.

[@giuocodelcalcio]

In my casino they burn 5 cards. What i have to do?

[@danielyuan9862]

Nothing. But if you're _really_ picky, if you want to calculate the true count, subtract 5 cards from the "dealt" cards.

[@roberthudson8389]

I make them show me at rivers casino in schenectady (ny) they act like i caught them stealing everytime😂

[@jackmacziz6140]

It doesn’t really matter how many cards they burn because it would just average out to the count being 0 anyway in the long run

[@julianrunner8888]

And if you sit when the game has started?

[@estar8204]

Buy in before it starts

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Then all of those cards are essentially added to the cards behind the cut card. So if they cut 1.5 decks off AND you miss the first 1/2 deck, then you are essentially playing a game that cuts off 2 decks.

[@sunnyscott4876]

Can't you just ask to see the burn card?

[@maxpayne3515]

thumbs up if your the guy who always has to ask the dealer to show the burn card if they don't already.

[@derekmoore295]

I am so curious to hear from you on a topic I feel few APs consider and that is the number of players taking cards when the count is high. If it is a full table wouldn’t this essentially be the same as worse deck penetration?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Yeah, full tables hurt the edge a little bit. But the real cost of a full table is how much it slows the game down. Heads up, you can play 250+ hands/hour. At a full table it can be as slow as 40 hands/hr. That's 1/6 the EV of heads up!

[@derekmoore295]

Blackjack Apprenticeship thanks for the response. If possible, can you run simulations to see exactly how much a full table hurts the advantage card counting? If you could make a video on this that would be great!

[@noelobrien4377]

Colin how are we going to know if we made a mistake then Also what if the dealer for some reason doesn't stop at a cut card

[@danielyuan9862]

You made a mistake only if you made a mistake with the information _known_ to you. So by definition, you would be able know if you made a mistake.

[@littleloner1159]

So why don't casinos burn a bunch of cards in between rounds like they do with poker?

[@she5152]

I have won millions in Vegas, the casino cheats the player the second you walk in even before you sit down your a Mark. I do the same to them with with no remorse whatsoever. How do I that, I utilize the greedy dealers to my advantage, enuff said. I know a lot of you say I am cheating and to that I reply, " You're damn sure right About that, just as they are.(hint!) The trick to my game is I don't cheat, I use greedy dealers to do it for me!!

[@jayfromaz]

Is it really cheating when you already know the house has an advantage? A lot of usinos will have a gambling pamphlet that tells you what your odds are. Guess what? They're all negative percentage which means the house will win in the long run.

[@Mizai]

you probably dont won millions

[@ThirtytwoJ]

seems safest to count it as zero odds wise. ignore. or if you're pessimistic count it against but flawed logic

[@danielyuan9862]

Why be "pessimistic" when everything is already just probabilistic? There is nothing to assume. Just take what you know and use it to your advantage.

[@vodkatonic814]

Just ask to see the burn... they always show me if I ask.

[@44tannertanner]

Tl;dr: Basically ignore it

[@drdrew3]

No. Don’t ignore it - ask to see the burn card and include it in your count. You tldr’d it and missed the correct answer. LOL

[@IB14GDTMS1]

Thanks for the info I was always counting it as a 10.

[@nigelwalker3643]

I am trying to run a blackjack table among friends. What are some basic ground rule? Can you email me some info? Do you burn a card every time you deal?

[@claimjumper7866]

I know when my dad sailed on great lakes ships in 1959 they played alot of blackjack on ship. They always buried a card. I specifically remember dad saying that cause if dealer didn't he had to pay. Ships rules. So we know its atheist that old.

[@scottdad]

Why don't the casinos just burn a card after every hand?

[@mariofranco7416]

I love you Colin! What is your zodiac sign? I’m guessing Leo

[@cweir44]

is that a tetragrammaton tatoo?

[@DCAANDPRAY]

without watching the video all the way thru. the burn card shouldn't matter, it would be the same as if they took a card off the very back of the shoe past the cut card that would never get dealt anyway and burned that as well.

[@russlehman2070]

One thing Colin didn't mention is that burning a lot of cards off the top can complicate true count estimation, at least if, like me, you use the discard tray to estimate the number of cards played. If it's just one or two burn cards, it's not significant, but if a lot of cards are burned, you have to adjust your estimate accordingly.

[@OGPakkBaby1]

How Can casinos cheat you? Pls nee video. Good job

[@raven7389]

Burning cards is essentially 'dealing seconds'.

[@cpleasant34]

The flow does changes. It doesnt change when you have High TC's Like TC4 and above cause the shoe is so rich in high cards it doesn't matter

[@danielyuan9862]

No, it doesn't change the "flow" at all. There is no flow in the shoe. The true count tells you the card probability of _all the cards_ in the shoe, not just the top card.

[@ericj4094]

I realized that it doesn't matter, but there is still a difference. One card lost at the end is not the same as one card lost at the beginning. An extra penetration card results in just worse penetration. However, if the card is burned at the start, it gives a +/- 1 uncertainty, and then with all the expected value stuff it still ends up to not change the count.

[@russlehman2070]

Not true. An unseen card is an unseen card. It doesn't matter whether it's on top, in the middle, or on the bottom.

[@russlehman2070]

No. As far as you are concerned when counting, there are two kinds of cards. Those you have seen, and those you haven't seen. An unseen card is an unseen card, whether it is at the top of the shoe or the bottom.

[@danielyuan9862]

@@russlehman2070 The only _real_ thing that burning a card does to the true count is that you have to subtract one card when looking at the "dealt" cards. But it makes such a small difference that it doesn't matter.

[@JoseLopez-hh6fp]

If the count is rich, can't you assume that burned cards are better cards? I don't count cards, but simply ignoring a card doesn't seem like the best way to calculate that variable. Maybe it's good enough, but not optimal and surely has room for improvement. You want to take advantage of every edge you can get right?

[@danielyuan9862]

If the count is rich, then it is likelier that the card is a high card, and therefore slightly decreases the running count. You're right about that. But the true count is expected to stay the same, because the true count directly tells you the probabilities of the cards, and if a card is burned without you knowing what it is, none of the probabilities change at all. Remember that the true count is the running count divided by (the number of unknown cards/52), if you somehow "knew" the burned card, the number of unknown cards would decrease by 1, and would completely balance out the true count.

[@EricSmyth2Christ]

Great idea in poker, terrible idea in blackjack

[@Phlegethon]

What if all the high cards were in the first half and the whole half was burned then if you didn’t know that information you’d keep raising the count. Mathematically there must be a position where not knowing makes it worse

[@spectralspectra2282]

I'm learning so much about blackjack but I'm actually underage

[@TheDougSpot]

I completely disagree. Any card before the end of the shoe affects the count. I advise counting all burn cards as -1. That way your count is either 100% accurate, or the count is better than you think

[@Zack-vt3zj]

Then what do you think about the 1-2 decks at the end of a shoe that are never played?

[@TheDougSpot]

@@Zack-vt3zj Cards that have yet to pass so not affect the count

[@mick727xd]

yes. But the point is that you can neglect the card as over time, the impact of low and high cards burned even out. By assuming it as a neg one, you actually hurt your own EV over time

[@danielyuan9862]

@@TheDougSpot Cards by "definition" don't affect the count if you don't know them. If the dealer takes all the cut-off cards at the end of the shoe and "burns" them all, do you count -1 for every card?

[@TheDougSpot]

@@danielyuan9862 That’s the dumbest shit you could have said. Cards at the end of the shoe can’t affect the count because they haven’t come out yet. The burn card has come out, so it does affect everything that follows. If the burn card is a 10, the running count is now -1 whether you know it or not

[@mikeymeals]

Sorry Colin, I respectfully disagree with cards being burned (except at the start) - coz all it takes is one card/change of dealers to kill a winning streak - I see it every time I play.. the one player most NOT affected by this is the last to act or third base.. so I either add a hand, subtract a hand, or not hit on a hand when I should hit, which kinda makes up for the burn card, that way the dealer ends up with the hole/break card if ever..& then the winning streak should continue on the next hand - except if the shoe is high already (1 or 2 hands left in the same shoe).. i duno, does that make sense?

[@seviren]

This is about as redundant as people playing slots with due payout strategy.

[@Phlegethon]

This logic of ignoring the card can’t be right....so what if the dealer burns half the deck and they were all 10s and A and the player didn’t count them? Then the dealer shows a bunch of the low cards remaining and the player thinks that the count is high when the whole remaining deck is actually low cards.

[@russlehman2070]

One of many reasons that card counting gives you a small edge, and not a sure thing is that your information is never perfect. A big positive count tells you only that the cards that you haven't seen contain more 10s and As than average. Those good cards can be anywhere: The next cards out of the shoe, the burn card, just in front of the cut card, or they could all be behind the cut card. Sometimes you will hit a high running count early in the shoe, and that count stays high until the cut card come out and the cards get shuffled. Guess what? You now know, too late to do you any good, that that was actually a disadvantageous shoe for you. That's why penetration is important to a card counter. The fewer cards left undealt, the better your chances of actually seeing those 10s and As.