The Camel and Needle: Did Scholars Mistranslate Jesus's Famous Saying?

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

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[@derekstaroba]

You cant take everything in the bible as literal. Thats dogma which is a sin. You gotta use your mind do you really think jesus would say rich ppl cant go to heaven? His own grandfathers were very rich like king solomon. Use discernment

[@drelowe7]

Great content, this makes for great dinner talk.

[@UniversoulUniverse]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGHJnpJumNGaiK8

[@juanjoseescanellas3798]

@@derekstaroba I agree if the bible is taken not as the word of a god but only as a piece of literature, where everybody can use their minds to imagine what the writer supposed to mean. I agree by the way, but I'm aware a huge amount of people would fiercely disagree with us. And that's the context of religions and ideologies or fans in sports, one is not expected to use the mind, only the instinct of human behaviour when feeling part of the masses, feeling the need to eliminate all those that pretend or seems to be different.

[@vanpeters9751]

Lol you fit the camel in the eye of the needle by looking at the camel from a distance while looking through the eye of the needle

[@nlabonte]

I mean... the saying immediately follows Jesus telling a rich man to sell all his stuff and give all his money to the poor; I don't think there's any ambivalence about what he meant by it.

[@sneakylemon8513]

*ambiguity?

[@Patman0074]

I always thought that it meant that everyone in Heaven is equal. Meaning there is no rich or poor people in Heaven, everyone there is the same.

[@marktwain368]

It is vital to consider such sayings in context, as you point out. Well done!

[@Curious_Traveler]

@@sneakylemon8513 Wow the worst word choice nitpick I have ever seen.

[@owenbartrop8963]

@@Curious_Traveler No it isn't.

[@RobertJazo]

I had heard the gate theory back in CCD as a child, with the teacher really emphasizing that "it is supposed to mean difficult, not impossible. Jesus wasn't saying that you shouldn't try to be rich." Interesting how interested some people are in "softening" this message. ;-)

[@RoganGunn]

I was taught this too (though my teacher heavily implied it might be rich people cope!) To be fair to both Jesus and your teacher, he didn't say it was impossible. He says for man it is impossible, but for God all things are possible; the implication being that only those who dedicate themselves to God have a chance, and it is at His will. Also, logically, if you are rich, and give up your wealth, then you are poor, and now can enter the Kingdom of God. But you are right that over the years there has been a big incentive to soften that particular message. There are a lot of rich churches!

[@DManCAWMaster]

Well if it means impossible than Jesus effectively has to damn most of the Old Testament prophets as most of them were rich

[@gg3675]

@@DManCAWMaster citation needed. first hurdle is demonstrating most of them existed at all. have fun

[@lizzkaayako2270]

@@DManCAWMaster What evidence is there in the Tanakh for most of its prophets being rich?

[@iamdigory]

The next verses make it clear that All people can only be saved by a miraculous act of God, none of us are un-rich enough to save ourselves

[@notfancy2000]

“The ancient saying ‘the day pigs fly’ actually intended very plump, almost flightless pigeons humorously called ‘pigs’ in those remote times because of their appearance.” I can almost hear far-future English scholars arguing the point.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

I first encountered this saying in college in the US. We don't have an equivalent saying in my language. The funny thing is that when I heard it the first time I completely couldn't figure out what the point was. I was an aerospace major. We could fly pigs any day.

[@notfancy2000]

@@andrewsuryali8540 We do have the saying in Argentina but with cows instead of pigs.

[@MusicalRaichu]

a long time ago there was something floating around the internet about all sorts of funny fake etymologies of sayings. like "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" dated from an era when making hot water was laborious and time consuming, so the whole had to take turns in their pecking order in the same bathtub with a month's worth of grime. by the time the baby was washed, the water was so murky, it would be easy to accidentally throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[@RevengeOfIjapa]

They would then refer to collection of ancient works of literature by the name of "Harry Potter", in which a girl names her messenger owl "Pigwigeon" and another character shortens to "Pig". The presence of this literary reference would provide evidence for this hypothesis

[@EricLeafericson]

I want a pig pigeon now. They sound adorable and squishy ❤️

[@shivmongoose3343]

We were taught in Mormon Sunday School that there was a palm tree formation called the "eye if the needle" through which a camel could pass but only on its knees so they taught that the rich man could only enter the kingdom of heaven through prayer. I'm no longer a believer but it's this kind of farfetched thinking that appealed to my oh so eager mind.

[@brentjeralds777]

It's a place in the desert....

[@Aleph-Noll]

@@brentjeralds777 what?

[@willymassey8273]

We were taught it was a gate, so idk.

[@anniehasting1133]

I was taught in Mormon Sunday school on the east coast the second theory presented in this video: that the eye of the needle was a rather narrow passageway in the city wall. Possible but extraordinarily difficult for a camel. And the camel would have to be “persuaded” to even attempt it.

[@djcfrompt]

Given recent revelations about the LDS church's dragon hoard of wealth, that checks out.

[@bheemabachus5179]

"Seriously, go check your favorite Aramaic dictionary." And it was at this moment that I knew I was not as scholarly as the general audience of this video.

[@sslaytor]

Exegesis within exegesis! I assumed this was a bit of a joke as all three dictionaries were written by the same person and therefore not likely to contradict each other!

[@kaanmuhammedgunes1879]

My favorite one is not a physical book but an internet site called "the CAL", so I felt the same.

[@veramae4098]

I'm a retired librarian, and yes I have reference books at home, and yes some are for Biblical study ... but I overlooked getting an aramaic dictionary. I lost it!!

[@usofliberty]

And all from the same guy, which was hilarious. I guess he really nailed it on the 3rd edition.

[@pikiwiki]

or go ask a Chaldean, for a simpler option

[@Honest_Grifter]

Ive always imagined there's a rich guy somewhere on the planet who's been researching methods to pass a camel through a needle eye... he's got graphs, equations, and a whole team of world class scientists and mathematicians working around the clock... they've been able to successfully pass a llama, but the camel is still wildly out of reach 🤣

[@BleedingBasco]

@Tut Dvd Your prejudice is showing. Jews don't believe in Jesus. Only Christians care about what Jesus says.

[@davidm4566]

That's funny. Like they've spent millions of dollars trying to figure out how to do it.

[@davidm4566]

@@BleedingBasco some Jews do care about Jesus- they are called Messianic Jews. Also, all of the original Christians were Jewish; they believed the Messiah had come but didn't stop their Jewish beliefs or traditions.

[@BleedingBasco]

@@davidm4566 The Christain bible is just the Jewish Scriptures (now commonly known as the Old Testament) with the scriptures of Jesus as the Messiah (New Testament) added on. They are the same God with the same beliefs about that God. The main difference between Jewdiasm, Messianic Jewdiasm, and Christianity is their stance on Jesus and their traditions stemming from that. Jesus was Jewish, as were his followers. The split to Messianic Jews stems back to the apothles, and was that they believed Jesus was the Messiah coming to give them salvation. They were essentially the first Christians, but held the Jewish traditions. Jews, as most people refer to today, do not believe Jesus was the Messiah. The step from Messianic Jewdaism to Christianity was a slower process, and came with dropping the Jewish traditions and gradually coming to the belief of the Holy Trinity. Whereas God and Jesus are the same being. Messianic Jewdaism pretty much died out, then began again in the 1800s by focusing on just the scriptures (both new and old) to get back to that place of practicing Jewish traditions while also believing Jesus was the Messiah.

[@BleedingBasco]

@@davidm4566 In short I agree with you on most of it, but not about Messianic Jews being what people refer to when they say Jews. Edit: Corrected a spelling error.

[@GDMiller419]

Shocking that a number of elite scholars, who were often the descendants of royalty, would seek to blunt the force of Jesus' condemnation...

[@kerwinbrown4180]

It isn't condemnation but instead a point of faith as it symbolizes what is impossible for a human is possible for God. God is more powerful than a neutron star and can keep the camel alive to boot.

[@meatpuppet5036]

Its not a condemnation, and your argument as to the scholars' class is badly flawed.

[@franzfleischer3476]

"elite scholars, who were often the descendants of royalty" - that gave me a laugh.

[@benjamintillema3572]

@@kerwinbrown4180 What would the point of the text be if not to condemn the hoarding of wealth? This is not the only passage where Christians are told give away their money for salvation. The way you're describing it is like, "Greed is bad but that doesn't matter, because Jesus loves you." But Jesus is the one telling people to give their worldly possessions to the poor.

[@kerwinbrown4180]

@@benjamintillema3572 You are talking of a Jewish Rabbi teaching his student-adherents. Jews have no problem with the pursuit of wealth but they do have a problem with idolatry. Paul of Tarsus teaches his students that the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. That is idolatry and is a grave sin to the Jewish that Jesus was teaching. If you read further down in the account to the following verse in Luke 25 the disciples ask "Who then can be saved" which reveals the disciples understood the "rich man" to mean all humans. Jesus answered with "What is impossible with man is possible with God".

[@darlameeks]

Either way, Jesus' point is the same. One of my favorite prayers from Scripture is: Proverbs 30:7 Two things I ask of thee; deny them not to me before I die: 8 Remove far from me falsehood and lying; give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with the food that is needful for me, 9 lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, “Who is the Lord?” or lest I be poor, and steal, and profane the name of my God.

[@MisterJang0]

Rich people in hell be like: "I thought getting to heaven was as easy as a rope going through a gate!"

[@sampatton146]

😂

[@leeboy26]

Rich people turning up to the pearly gates holding a giant needle and threading rope through it.

[@Sticky-Situation]

🤷‍♀️😅

[@marcoemilianodellacroce5068]

I can see Trump holding a Bible upside down at the gates.

[@Sarcasticron]

Kind of pointless to say, in that case.

[@JenksAnro]

Idk why but the camel stats and the neutron star thing made me laugh so much. There's just something so funny about somebody dryly explaining why a camel can't fit through the eye of a needle.

[@dementiasorrow]

I laughed hard too. the seriousness and historical accuracy to explain something so obvious was "seriously" funny. 😅😂

[@davidiscool26]

Kind of gave me Half as Interesting vibes

[@RoganGunn]

Well, rich people have nevertheless been trying for about 2000 years now. 😜

[@Alverant]

Do you think R4B watches Kurzgesagt?

[@samuelfraley8737]

Dr. Henry’s comedic timing is perfect and always has been.

[@moirasoma2863]

I learned at school in Norway that it was a gate in Jerusalem called "the camel`s eye". This made the saying completly meaningless, it was very confusing.

[@ninatrabona4629]

This is like that child's game , Telephone. Every detail gets totally scrambled over the course of time.

[@RoganGunn]

I guess it needs the extra context that the camel had to shed its load to pass through (like a rich person giving up their wealth) to make total sense. I suppose that context was left out by rich people looking to reinterpret the passage!

[@Cletus_the_Elder]

I have also heard this interpretation many years ago. It came from teaching from a Baptist seminary, so I took it with a grain of salt.

[@michaeldillon3113]

I can't recall where I read it , but yes the gates to Jerusalem were known as ' eyes of the needle ' . Camels were not allowed past those gates . You only have to look at the teachings and lives of saints of all traditions were obviously anti materialism when done for its own sake 🕊️

[@whatabouttheearth]

That's what I was taught by multiple Christian denominations here in the US

[@patginni5229]

A group of monks are making copies of the Bible when the priest walks past. One of the monks calls him over and asks… Monk: Father, when was the last time anybody checked our work? Priest: what do you mean brother? Monk: I’ve been making copies of the Bible for 30 years now. They have always been copies of copies though. When, if ever, has anyone checked our work against the original works? Priest: I see what you mean. I’m not sure anyone ever has thought to. A few days later the head monk is asking if anyone has seen the priest lately. It’s been 2 days and he simply can’t find the priest for mass. The monk from earlier mentions their conversation from a few days before and suggests that they check the catacombs beneath the monastery. As they search the catacombs they find the priest, covered in dust and grime sitting at a small table covered by scrolls, laughing uncontrollably. The monks try calming him down and ask Monk: Father. Father what is so funny that you laugh so like a man possessed? Priest: CELEBRATE! The damned thing says Celebrate.

[@tooyoungtobeold8756]

Did you mean Celibate?

[@patdotdoc5700]

​@@tooyoungtobeold8756 that's the joke

[@blackdragon796]

Check the original scrolls exposed in Israel and you'll see the Bible is the most historically accurate book in the world. Besides, in the Bible, it was never written that monks had to be single. It's written nowhere so your joke doesn't work. I advise you to read the Bible.

[@patginni5229]

@ I tend to study more and more diverse theology than the average person should. I grew up Christian. Since you decided to admonish me for a cute joke I pose to you this. The Bible says that God knew everything about the world before he created any of it. Correct? So there goes free will. But that’s not the point I’m going for here. God knew what would happen and he still made everything so God created everything to be how he wanted it to be. Then why is Jesus the only one given credit for salvation? He was one of 2 people sacrificed. God chose Judas to betray Jesus before he even created the world. The Bible says that Judas was better to have never been born for his betrayal. So not only did God damn him for the role he chose for him, but he even doubled down on it. God chose that Judas would commit suicide. The only unforgivable sin in the Bible. Here’s the best part. Jesus died and went back to heaven. Judas died and went to hell. There can be no forgiveness without punishment first. Any parent can tell you that. Without a consequence there is no reason to be want forgiven. 2 people died to save the world from sin. Christianity only gives credit to 1. Why? Because the truth is bad for business?

[@lbradshaw316]

The original meaning definitely throws a huge wrench in prosperity doctrine. Completely understandable why that would be a popular interpretation as the church enjoys so much wealth.

[@Sunflowrrunner]

The give every thing to the poor and following Jesus and holding all things in common and multiplying in numbers daily also mess it up.

[@infinite5795]

@@Sunflowrrunner not really, Tithes consolidate the power of the church over people, just like your God doesn't want intelligent people.

[@jdmbapastor5172]

While I generally agree, Christianity (as a movement) had--at least by the time of Paul--accepted the patronage of the wealthy was valuable for its growth. While many Protestant and Evangelical communities today extol an "Acts 2" community, Paul's discourse letters clearly show that the wealthy play a role in supporting the movement's growth at large. In general, Christianity has a challenge of practicality for maintenance of the organization (i.e., paying bills) and idealism which truely commits to the jist of Christ's demands.

[@MuricaTurkey]

@@jdmbapastor5172 That's probably because Jesus' idea of "The Church" doesn't jive with an actual, organized church either.

[@nickanderson412]

Prosperity doctrine is Mammonism

[@Sound557]

I bought into the whole "it was actually rope not camel" theory until today. I'm always happy to be proven wrong, thank you and great video :)

[@nicanornunez9787]

But what will make if the intention is the same, rich ppl doesn't go to heaven

[@rookmaster7502]

Don't be so sure. The Gospel texts were initially written in Greek, likely by Greek authors for predominantly for Greek audiences.

[@texasyojimbo]

I had never actually heard the theory, but I admit it has at least some theological appeal. A rope can be pared down to a single thread to pass through the eye of a needle. Likewise, one is tempted to believe Jesus would have someone in His kingdom who was a formerly rich person who gave up their wealth to follow Him. But if the word just isn't there -- and it isn't in the earliest texts -- then it just isn't there.

[@celsus7979]

The rich being barred from heaven is consistent with Jesus philosophy. A rich man asked how to folow Jesus,. Reply 'give all your wealth to the poor' About money, 'give to Caesar what is Caesar's' implying that earthly wealth does not belong to those seeking the kingdom of heaven. The sermon in the mount is perfectly clear about posessions as well. Conclusion: Jesus was completely focused on relying on God for everything, and had strong contempt for earthly wealth and security. Take it as you will, but you will have to bend over backwards to match earthly posessions wirh his philosophy

[@farrex0]

@@celsus7979 But what if the rich man gives too much money to the poor, making them rich and therefore condemning them?

[@jmaraf7741]

The "easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle..." phrase has always been a favorite of mine. If I may remind you again, you have deaf viewers (like me) that need subtitles for better understanding of what's being said in your videos. I struggled to listen with powerful hearing aids to catch most of what you said, and sometimes I managed to lip-read whenever you show your face, but not always. I am grateful, by-the-way, that you do speak clearly, and you enunciate your words well for me to lip-read. This message will probably get lost in this comment section since already 1,751 viewers posted their comments. Hopefully, you will see my message someday.

[@serronserron1320]

Why not get a cochlear implant?

[@RevMarkSmith]

@@serronserron1320 I am a Christian minister who has worked in the Deaf community for over 20 years can i point out that cochlear implants do not work for everyone. They work better when implanted early - and while sometimes helpful for many people , for others they simply don't work or are disappointing

[@ChrisHow]

@@serronserron1320 Well, yeah, I guess complex and expensive surgery is an alternative to just not turning off the auto generated subtitles

[@alligatrix]

co-signing this. I'm not hearing impaired but I do have ADHD, which makes my auditory processing Not Amazing, and on top of that I often watch KZbin videos in slightly noisy environments like in the kitchen or in the shower. subtitles are really important!

[@serronserron1320]

@@alligatrix How do you watch videos in the shower without getting the appliances water saturated?

[@robertmarino5523]

Brilliant, concise, and sourced. Thank you so much for this. I’ve often wondered about exactly what you discuss here, but never felt I could trust those I consulted. You not only speak with brilliant concision but cite all your sources. I feel like I’ve finally found a source I can trust and rely upon. Thank you again! Great work!

[@siddigfan]

Our pastor told us in a sermon that the 'eye of the needle' was a gate into Jerusalem where a laden camel wouldn't fit so, you had to unload the camel to get it through. He said rich people have to unload themselves of their love of riches to get through the gate of Heaven.

[@yllejord]

Did he say if they get to take up their love for riches again once they enter, just like the camel in this scenario is probably laden with all the stuff again once it is inside the gate?

[@karollisa7022]

@@yllejordi would think that if they unloaded the camel before going through, they would have to leave their riches on the other side, and not be able to go back for them.

[@yllejord]

@@karollisa7022 I think Jesus was better at parables than this mess. It's not about a gate. Simple as that.

[@LSwick-ss6nm]

Quite simply he said it would be "easier" because a man, alone, not laden with goods can pass through the small needle gate where one with a camel loaded with posessions would find it extremely difficult, if not impossible. Jesus made a plain as day statement to the people of the time. If we would learn about the time and culture in which He lived, many of these things would be just as obvious to us.

[@LSwick-ss6nm]

​@@yllejord No because the city guards would not allow the small gate to remain open while he unloaded it. He had to make a choice, enter and leave the camel with all his goods outside, or stay with his goods outside the safety of the city walls.

[@woody5476]

I'm really glad you didn't leave out the part where Jesus says, "With man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible." That was a big part of His point.

[@TheCatholicNerd]

I agree. We even see what the rich young man that he is justified before the more radical call to give up everything that he owns. He asks what he must do to be saved in Jesus tells him. The man wants more and Jesus invites him to a more radical following, personally, I think Jesus was inviting him to become an apostle. Power corrupts and wealth is a form of power. The only way for a rich man avoid corruption is to open his heart to the Lord and allow the Lord to guide him. Thus, I don't think it's impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, but I do think it's quite difficult for people with lots of possessions and wealth and power to rely on God and requires the grace of God to accomplish. We All must do this of course, but I think it's harder for someone with lots of wealth and power to humble himself. Just my opinion.

[@crazkurtz]

Kenneth Copeland would agree. More money

[@dcw56]

"With man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible." That was a big part of His point. That was THE point. One of the Apostles asks "Then who can be saved?" Then Jesus replies the part about With man it is not possible but with God EVERYTHING is possible. A sinner like me can be saved whether we are talking about a large animal or a large piece of rope passing trough the eye of a needle. If the person who put up the video had simply mentioned this to begin with, the video would have only been about one minute long.

[@rmt3589]

Same. I heard ppl use the needle verse since I was little. At a church I heard the "through God all things are possible" quote and used it as a counter. Had no idea they were connected till high-school. Christ is the way, the truth, and the light. Through Him all things are possible. My understanding is if you try to use your money to get into heaven instead, you will fail. And it's speaking against the "money can buy anything" belief.

[@woody5476]

@@dcw56 It's good to take a scripture and get its entire meaning. There is a lot more there than just that nothing is impossible for God, and that anyone can be saved (which is two points right there). There is also the nuance of considering that the riches of this world are not the Way, and that you can get tangled up in them if they are your focus, kind of like the thorny ground in the Parable of the Sower. Plus, looking at the culture, and manners and customs of the time, can help you get a better picture of the heart of what is being said, and why it is being said. I don't want a one-minute view of the scriptures; I want to dig in and get the complete meaning.

[@Ruinemacil]

Jesus: "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven" Rich people and prosperity gospel preachers: "WELL HE DID NOT ACTUALLY MEAN THAT"

[@robertbeisert3315]

Osteen's Bible has no fingerprints on any page

[@RoundHouseDictator]

Thru the lord all things are possible so jot that down

[@jose.montojah]

To see the Pharisees' yeast doing fine today. To check out the yeast of gold rotting the hearts of people. Blessed be thee, untouched by true corruption, so normalized today. Interesting to see most churches fighting over scraps, seeking power, weilding lies... Fascinating to witness the distortion of our lord thus far, heavily supported with phariseic reading of the old scripture. Great to see the contrast between the dead sea scrolls and the _codex vaticanus_ we call the "version of the 70 greeks" And to see the message twisted, the love for god handled by wolves as it was written, the angular stone rejected, churches causing secularization of society. An imperial collapse. WILL WE ONE DAY TAKE THE ROAD OF RADICAL HONESTY AND RADICAL LOVE THAT OUR LORD DEMANDED FROM US?? Wilst thee choose life? Or continue down the path of _D E A T H_ ?

[@stefanb6539]

If you really want to see heads pop, explain to them, that "Render unto Cesar" is actually an order TO PAY YOUR F*ING TAXES!

[@ticket2space621]

Of course he didn't mean it. Why else would he be telling me to tell you to give me money

[@NxNWhiskey]

This is the best discussion of this phrase I have seen on KZbin. My family loves trying to apply these folk explanations, and it's refreshing to see those theories critically, and with evidence, disputed.

[@redapol5678]

When I was still a Christian, I remember teaching a a Sunday School lesson to young kids about this parable. The resources the church gave me were all about the second interpretation. It had images of a camel, loaded with cargo trying to squeeze into a small gate. It probably did have the intended meaning to soften the impossibility of the task and allow for rich people to simply give up some of their wealth. I see now how it takes away the radical nature of what could have been the original. I find it sad that an interpretation based on no evidence at all is still taught and believed in modern Christian circles. Whether the original meaning was about a camel or a thick anchor rope, the imagery of that interpretation is quite clear - the task is not just extremely difficult but *impossible* Thanks for the video!

[@COl-rn5th]

Someone (many someones) didn't read their Bible, apparently: "You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2 Pick and choose exegesis is a very bad principle for earnest-sounding religious practice.

[@staindnirv]

Not everyone who believes themselves a Christian is. In my Christian schooling the literal eye of a needle was taught. It makes me sad that hateful and self serving churches lead people astray and give Christians a bad rep.

[@COl-rn5th]

​@@staindnirv Reminds me of this 'oldie' from when I believed the Christian way: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4TMXpSIq82qobc

[@COl-rn5th]

@TheBrunswickDrunkard Reminds me of this 'oldie' from when I believed the Christian way: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4TMXpSIq82qobc

[@Пинагод]

Not only that, but certain parts of the Bible itself is literally just interpretations of what happened as well. The most prominent ones are the Gnostic Gospels, where the chronology of its existence was set a century after Jesus' death, and the original title of the individual books sound like clickbait titles in Youtbue ['The secret book of John' as an example]. I want to be Catholic. But god, it's exactly this sheer ignorance and blindness to the Bible that makes me skip Theology class. I want people to ACTUALLY learn more about the Bible in an objective standpoint. This isn't about making people Christian, this is supposed to be about spreading the word - It's up to them if they still want to be Christian.

[@KbB-kz9qp]

I like how Chesterton put it: “If you use your imagination, and shrink the camel as small as possible, and enlarge the needle as much as you can, in other words, if you take Christ’s words to mean the least that he could have meant, then the least thing that Christ was saying, is that; rich men are not all that trustworthy.” 😀

[@baneuntaned2546]

I get that. But just hear me out first. Me: continues to confuse by explaining......

[@OnTheThirdDay]

Somehow the guy in the video totally misinterprets this famous passage by not reading the rest of the discussion. It is clear from that the rich (and nonrich) can go to Heaven by an act of God. However, the hyperbole by Jesus should not be explained away but meditated on. I recommend Soren Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling for a discussion of the hyperbole by Jesus and why we should really study them and take their effects super seriously.

[@KbB-kz9qp]

@@OnTheThirdDay I think the presenter is focusing too narrowly on translation and grammar of older languages…missing the forest for the trees.

[@OnTheThirdDay]

@@KbB-kz9qp Agreed. However, if one is to do a proper analysis of a text, one should start with reading it in context beifre trying to reread it differently. I don't like to "call out" people and say they aren't trustworthy, but it is a reminder to keep in mind that even if someone makes good arguments about something then they might be very incorrect elsewhere.

[@DannyB-cs9vx]

A person can be very trustworthy in life, and a monster spiritually. Al Capone kept his word as an example. It is more an issue of being attached to worldly things and not spiritual principles.

[@SalvableRuin]

What an excellent and thorough discussion. I agree that Jesus's saying was intended to be surprising and radical. Many things that he said surprised and shocked people. And the context of the passage supports this. When Jesus said it, his disciples were "greatly astonished" and asked "Who then can be saved?" Jesus answered that is it impossible for MEN to accomplish salvation, "but with God, all things are possible." His core message, no matter how you look at it, is that salvation is only possible with God's help.

[@DamonHowell-o8p]

And here lies the problem. The references are lost to history. Some say it matters not but i say it absolutely matters exactly what they meant, not what we interpret. Unloading a pack animal outside the gate is quite different from literally pushing it through a sewing needle. It draws into question what is meant by needle.

[@FilosophicalPharmer]

Thanks to your graphics, my favorite translation is now “It’s easier for a Tyrannosaurus rex to get through the eye of a needle than a rich person to get into heaven.” Thank You! 👍🏼

[@NickMak-m2c]

You should switch the eye of the needle bit too into something else even more ridiculous. What's the actual space between sewing threads called? Does it have a name? A stitching gap?

[@joshjones6072]

That's funny! Immediately, it came to mind sailors use large needles to sew fishing nets & to splice ropes. Not to be contrary, but maybe Jesus was simply saying it was hard but not impossible... being rich & knowing how to use a boat to catch fish & teach people ⛵️🐟 😉 Goes with his teachings.

[@FilosophicalPharmer]

@@joshjones6072 Had a fascination with knots since I was 12 when I began racing sailboats with my Evangelical Xtian father. I’ve crossed the Atlantic, not seen land for 15 days. Like I asked my Sunday School teacher when I was 8: “You mean to tell me Noah built a boat big enough for 2 of every animal?” “Yep! Sure did!”. What my little brain should’ve asked was, “what’s the Aramaic word for Kangaroo? Penguin?” Maybe, just maybe, Jesus’ teachings about being a friend to the tax man had to do with the conquering people’s (*the Romans) need to tax a people who refused to have ‘graven images’ in their presence. Let’s ask Flavius Jocephus, yeah?

[@ChiefofSinnersThoughIBe]

Was taught the gate myth in highschool by my New Testament teacher and believed it until today. Thank you for the in depth look!

[@thedevilsadvocate5210]

Does it matter? The gate myth is as good as any myth

[@theimmortal4718]

Either way, it means you can't love your money and God at the same time. A rich man will choose his money

[@ChiefofSinnersThoughIBe]

@@thedevilsadvocate5210 If you're implying that the whole of the bible is myth and that's why it doesn't matter, what would be the whole point of the video? Or RfB's career along with his colleagues'? Matters a lot to many people.

[@h3nder]

When I was in religion class as a kid our teacher told us that the "Eye of a Needle" is believed to have been a really small gate that Camels are too big to fit through.

[@porsche911sbs]

no, that was just a myth invented so that rich people could trick Christians into thinking they had a chance of going to heaven

[@swirvinbirds1971]

Well that would mean every single human could fit thus render the whole saying meaningless.

[@johnlawless2555]

It means what it it says the eye of a needle.

[@jimleane7578]

Thanks for your post. Jesus often used play on words. I think he ment both the narrow gate and camel as well as rope and needle's eye. Look at petra and Peter ("upon this rock"), the parable of the children's food and the dogs.

[@donofon1014]

@@swirvinbirds1971 You need to rethink this. It said in metaphor ... easier for a camel to go thru the gate. IMPOSSIBLE. Rich man IMPOSSIBLE. See if you can handle a metaphor.

[@Patrick-kq9fy]

Mistranslated... by the authors. Uh huh. Matt 19:24 Mark 10:25 Luke 18:25 All three Gospel writers translated the phrase Christ used into Greek... and you say they are wrong. Taken with these words of Christ, "“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon”, Christ is clearly teaching that making wealth the focus in your life instead of God is sinful. The phrase is hyperbole, meant to make a clear message. Throughout the Gospel, Christ derides the wealthy and extolls the virtues of the pious poor. Even the Widow's Mite is more cherished by God than the contributions of the rich. You cannot buy your way into Heaven. Money becomes worthless over time, and God has no need of your wealth in Heaven.

[@azzydraws3107]

okay but the fact that the words for camel and cable have sounded so similar to each other throughout the ages in several different languages is amazing

[@stephenphil1593]

It's really strange

[@thefoxhat6163]

It's not that amazing. Most of the European languages have roots in Tamil. There is also some evidence there are Tamil influences in the north American Indian tribal languages.

[@halohaalo2583]

@@thefoxhat6163 nope. Proto Indo european is not closely related to tamil. PIE languages: Iranian, Sanskrit, Slavic, Greek Latin, German

[@thefoxhat6163]

@@halohaalo2583 You're wrong. Don't let the history you' want to believe get in the way of current thinking based on the evidence. Perhaps you're one of those supremacists who has convinced themselves the superior ancient civilisations were far too stupid to be anything other than cave dwellers. Modern humans are barbarians in comparison.

[@__Hanasei__Levinus__]

@@thefoxhat6163 eh

[@Serai3]

It's hilarious that this saying of Jesus attracts all this desperate re-explaining. I guess the idea that wealth is inherently immoral really panics some people. :D:D:D EDIT: By the way, I don't think Jesus was damning the rich. I think he was pointing out that they _damn themselves_ by not being willing to give up their wealth. Remember that Jesus said it precisely because a rich young man asked him how to get into heaven, and Jesus said sure, just give up everything you have. Kid didn't wanna do that, and thus Jesus's rather sadly stated assessment.

[@davidsaroea5530]

He said he would bless his wealth 10 times over... don't be silly. Jesus ran a stone masonry business and funded a ministry and 12 disciples for 3.5 years. Then they gambled over his clothes. If you think the wealth doctrine is scandalous, so is the poverty doctrine.

[@delia_watercolors]

@@davidsaroea5530 everybody assumes wealth is cash. I don't think Jesus could guarantee 10x someone's money. He wasn't dealing crypto. Wealth can mean many other things and all good things, like health and safety and SALVATION. Salvation is worth 10x more than however many coins on Earth. Salvation is worth 10x whatever coins that rich man was hoarding. Edit: words and their meaning evolve over time. The meaning of "happiness" has changed over time. While being smiley and perpetual good fortune could be described as happiness, more commonly it was good health, many children and healthy children and a steady job (not necessarily a great job. A just a steady that can feed you and your family.) You can look up the history of the word happiness yourself.

[@davidsaroea5530]

@@delia_watercolors if that's the way you want to interpret it, but God was known for prospering his people time and time again...Jireh is one of his names. Poverty doctrine is extremely dangerous and undermines God's goodness

[@kerwinbrown4180]

It the greed where wealth becomes an idol not wealth itself. Communist misinterprets it to support their ideology.

[@howlrichard1028]

@IcedGreenPee It's not a literal everything.

[@octonionsoul3235]

I find the meaning obvious: the mindset needed to get rich and the mindset needed for spiritual progression are very different and are often opposed.

[@_sky_3123]

It wasn't that obvious to me. But I like your point.

[@shan8737]

People go to ridiculous lengths to TRY and explain a simple analogy. Jesus was talking about one of the sins called 'attachment'. A rich man would find it impossible to give up his wealth and turn his attention to God. Hence, he says that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Another parable that is widely misunderstood in which Jesus talks about attachment is where he says he comes with a sword to cut ties of attachment between different family members. These attachments hinder ones progress toward God realization.

[@MZero8099]

I always wondered about the misinterpretation of the eye of a needle meaning a gate. I heard this when I as a child. I think maybe by a pastor of a megachurch. Seems pretty obvious why he would prefer the incorrect translation rather than the true translation. Thanks so much for covering this :)

[@chriss780]

funny how everything else is meant to be completely literal- and even stuff that's never even mentioned - eg abortion, is considered 100% certain in the christian conservative worldview, but the second god clearly denounces their life style and asks them to give up their wealth, unambiguously in like 12 different places they're like "wait, no, not like that! he didn't really mean it! it was a figure of speech!" absolute jokes. they have zero convictions

[@letsburn00]

It's one of those funny things. Maybe the obvious obvious interpretation is the logical one. I.e Jesus said give your wealth away and look after the poor. Which is especially relevant back when there was no government support for the poor and sick. The only reason it's not interpreted that way is that religious leaders who are wealthy don't like that their leader, who spends the entire time talking about how the poor and meek are godly could be preferable over them.

[@a.t.c.3862]

I heard that gate 'explanation' from a teacher as a Catholic child; utter 'bovinum excrementum', of course. I must have had a strong doubting streak even then. As an older and more questioning young person I researched it a bit - and found that there was no gate in Jerusalem called 'the eye of the needle'. I'm still a Catholic and camel and needle it is.

[@user-lb8do4ew6k]

Same reason he told you catholics, protestants or every single other Christian denomination aren't Christians.

[@user-lb8do4ew6k]

@Eddard Tyrsson Christianity originated with the ministry of Jesus in the 1st century Roman province of Judea which became the catholic church & the coptics. The new breed of born agains branched from the southern baptists in 1975 in America.

[@timothymclean]

I was taught the gate theory as fact back in (Lutheran) elementary school. These days, I don't particularly care what Jesus may or may not have said, but I'm still kinda glad to hear that it's BS. The eye-of-the-gate interpretation REALLY watered down the original saying to something meaningless.

[@GZQ9]

Growing up as a non-Christian, I was told that the eye of the needle was a gate only tall enough for a human pass through and not a camel. The metaphor that I always found particularly meaningful was that in order for a camel to pass through the gate it would have to kneel down awkwardly and unload its cargo, therefore in order for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, one would have to bow down to God and shed themself of earthly wealth, and in essence show humility.

[@ApurvaSukant]

Very soon most of the world will not care what the god of any religion said. its been long enough since our tribal days.

[@ChillAssTurtle]

@@ApurvaSukant based and reality pilled. Forget god n strive for the greater unification and betterment of all mankind in the name of being a cool dude or lass.. its enough to just want your brothers n sisters to live better without a threat of eternal punishment or reward.. do it for its own sake as hitch said

[@EvanOfTheDarkness]

The thing that really throws a wrench into that theory, is that none of Jesus speeches in the New Testaments are simple transcriptions, they are heavily edited and aimed to capture much wider audiences. Using an analogy that only the locals in Jerusalem could possibly understand is just illogical given how focused their editing is.

[@leokinvig6368]

@@ApurvaSukant I disagree. People will always want to feel like they can control their outcome after death. Religion is the closest thing people have to that. I personally accept death and welcome it as a part of life, but I don't think it's the most common way of thinking.

[@sunnyjacob7350]

I happened to visit Damscus many years back and remember the tour guide telling us that "eye of the needle" actually was an archway on the straight street and it was not tall enough for a camel to pass through and hence the saying. I thought that make sense as Jesus was explaining to very ordinary people in simple terms about salvation.

[@TAHIRALI-me3sv]

FIRSTLY PLEASE READ QURAN 7:40.... CONFIRMS WHAT J ESUS/ESSA SON OF MARY SAID "MEANING IS VERY SIMPLE A PERSONS BELIEF IN 1 AND ONLY GOD/ALLAH IS MUST THEN LIVING ON THIS EARTH AS IF WE ARE TRAVELLERS JUST PASSINGBY " NOT THOSE WHO ARE BUSY COMPILING WEALTH THINKING THEY ARE {RICH} ARE LIVING ON THIS EARTH FOREVER. (THEY ARE DOOMED.)

[@dtriniboss]

Who are the modern day descendants of all the people made famous household names in Christian holy books? Surely so many famous people should have modern descendants.

[@RockBadgerChristianity]

I think that archway is actually completely theoretical and there’s no proof that it actually exists

[@chutasan8299]

You are CORRECT!

[@republicansthatdidntvotefo1605]

@@TAHIRALI-me3sv Now that we have figured out A rich man Devoting too much Time gathering money🥵.. And unable to give it up.. And The camel rope main discussion? And how God Almighty wants your complete attention!! Can one of the trinitarians please explain Matthew 3:13 When I was young in CCD class How Jesus is God Almighty? 🙏🙏

[@juqeboxmedia]

It’s easier for a leopard to lose its spots than for a proud man to admit he’s wrong. It’s easier for a ship to float in the clouds than a Glutton to give up cake. These are metaphors. Made to show the extreme difficulty it is for a person to give up doing something. It’s not that hard of a verse to understand.. smh.🤦🏽‍♂️ you can make up your own even.

[@DrVictorVasconcelos]

The key takeaway is that people really wanted "burden" not to mean "money" so that they could continue to violate Jesus's teachings and still go to heaven. Especially given the sheer amount of money that was coming into the church at the high medieval period.

[@neclark08]

...and I find it tempting to think that the caveat: "For/through a man it would be Impossible, while through God, ALL things are Possible." would be 'a wink and a nod" to the Medieval practice of Holy Roman- & then Roman Catholic Clerics pulling-in bribes by granting "Indulgences" ('Get Out of HELL for a Fee" duccuments) to wealthy patrons for Sins ALREADY Committed -- or to Crusader Knights who expected To Commit Sins as they hacked their ways to- & through 'The Holy Land'...

[@neclark08]

...and I find it tempting to think that the caveat: "For/through a man it would be Impossible, while through God, ALL things are Possible." would be 'a wink and a nod" to the "loop-hole" Medieval practice of Holy Roman- & then Roman Catholic Clerics pulling-in bribes by granting "Indulgences" ('Get Out of HELL for a Fee" duccuments) to wealthy patrons for Sins ALREADY Committed -- or to Crusader Knights who expected To Commit Sins as they hacked their ways to- & through 'The Holy Land'...

[@TampaDave]

When I lived in Tripoli, Libya, we visited many historic sites. In the old city walls, there were special places built as a way to get in or out in emergencies. It was like a tunnel that goes under the wall. It was designed ensure that no could easily use it as a way to attack the city. It was so cramped, that a person could no crawl through with a weapon, and would be vulnerable while inside the passage. This passageway was called the Arabic word meaning "eye of the needle". A person can get through it slowly, but a camel, not at all.

[@danieljsm218]

What Jesus compared was living one's not materials to go through. Therefore, camel is right for the comparison any way. No hairsplitting needed further. The comparison of wealth for the rich man is unnecessary and obstructive burden, (not for the camel) is the implied spiritual truth which makes sense.

[@JTheTeach]

I heard that was a myth, as there was no gate in Jerusalem called "the eye of the needle" Jesus would've referenced.

[@markdouglas8073]

@@JTheTeach Yes, more likely the famous phrase influenced Arabs to name it that. Israeli tour guides say a lot of things that contradict Christians. Indeed, because they are not Christians, some like to “correct” Christian thinking with their Jewish explanations. Scholars look for evidence.

[@TampaDave]

@@markdouglas8073 Arabs would call it that because Jesus made that analogy? Seems like a total stretch. I saw them in 5 or 6 old city ruins, some of which were built BC.

[@shoyupacket5572]

@@danieljsm218 Why are you so sure that you know what Jesus meant?

[@BrianPurcell72]

Thank you for this! About 20 years ago I heard a sermon that explained the belief that eye of a needle meant a thin crack between rocks (meant for a person to be able to squeeze through). I could never find references to that belief online and wondered if it was true. Now I see why I couldn't find supporting documents of this idea.

[@isoSw1fty]

Do go walking into thin cracks. That's how you clip through to the backrooms.

[@jamesmccorkle8448]

My dad used to farm rice in Mississippi and he used the term EYE to describe a levee gate. a levee gate is an opening to allow water to pass through. An eye can be used to describe an opening in a wall.

[@johnwattdotca]

Your father is correct. The producer of this video doesn't know what an eye of a needle is, in the Holy Bible. It was a door, a security door in a wall around a city that only one man could get through at a time. A camel was too big. Same for a horse or cow.

[@MotorcycleWrites]

@@johnwattdotcahe explains this theory at around 8:30 in the video.

[@johnwattdotca]

@@MotorcycleWrites As far as the camel and the eye of the needle being the title of this video, it took too long to get there. I was gone by then.

[@stantorren4400]

@@johnwattdotcaThe video is only 14 minutes long. Are you lot tiktokers? There’s stamps in the video ffs

[@johnwattdotca]

@@stantorren4400 I probably didn't watch the entire video because I thought it was too shallow, or generic, as you are. I have never seen Tik Tok and don't know what "ffs" means.

[@summbuddie9120]

It is one of the best sayings in the whole bible; it's such a sarcastic, funny, and even spiteful metaphor and gives me a grasp on Jesus' personality.

[@rickrozen2341]

On the personality of God.

[@MsSomeonenew]

He said it out of love not spite. Passing over to the spiritual side requires giving up the material side, and a rich man will never want to do that.

[@Odo-so8pj]

The eye of the needle was a well known small passage way. Not an actual needle. People couldn't fit through with their goods.

[@h3xon797]

@@Odo-so8pj What? Did you watch the video?

[@rickrozen2341]

@@Odo-so8pj That’s a lie and blasphemy.

[@ettinakitten5047]

It's also interesting to note the absence of any mention of a gate called "eye of the needle" in any context other than discussing the meaning of Jesus's saying. If the gate was commonly called that, shouldn't there be some mention of it in any other context?

[@btrowbridge8958]

Yes agree

[@Vod-Kaknockers]

My thoughts too.

[@slardebard]

He talks about that in the video.

[@Brandanus]

City gates or large, heavy gates in general have posterns (integrated or close to the gate) which would allow a person to pass. Reads as you'd need to leave your belongings (and wealth) before passing. No need for a gate of that name.

[@ivermectin7928]

If Jesus existed, wouldn’t there be mention of him and his works by at least a single person during his lifetime? Why did it take 2 decades for Paul to imagine him and the. 2 decades more for the gospels to be written by anonymous Greek authors? 🤔

[@marctoonz813]

*Plot twist:* Jesus really did say camel and the original scribe made the typo, but divine power intervened thus causing the next translator to mistranslate the typo fixing the error.

[@StanSwan]

It is camel it is a well know Jewish expression from the time that appears in other writings of the time. Sometimes the camel is an elephant. A cord or rope makes no sense as a cord/rope can be run through a needle depending how you define the size or one or both. The expression meant something that was an impossibility.

[@jacquolen1952]

As always, the best presentation with regard to religious education on KZbin. I never miss a video that you post. Keep up the high quality!- Rich

[@MrShanester117]

Your vacuous and obsequious comment was really helpful to the conversation 👍

[@jacquolen1952]

@@MrShanester117 - Was merely complimenting a good presentation. If it falls below some standard you seem to have set for joining the KZbin conversation, well you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[@odofraggins7135]

I would be worried about my salvation if I were you. I read that you are a Rich person ;)

[@odofraggins7135]

@@MrShanester117 It is easier for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a commenter to pass through the gate you are keeping.

[@jacquolen1952]

@@odofraggins7135 - That’s pretty good!- Rich

[@hunterglass1840]

Wow, thank you. I was taught around 40+ years ago that the Eye of the Needle was a gate in Jerusalem in which a fully loaded camel could not pass through. This was apparently for defense from raiders. I personally looked at it as the great divide between the wealthy and the poor during that time was great and historically wealth and power came hand in hand. We also know from history that many of these wealthy people could be ruthless thus making their indiscretions more frequent.

[@Anttys_WeyTua_CTa_Eu986]

Seriously, I can remember a Catholic priest explaining this to us in a sermon in the eighties.

[@Ozone946]

not much different from today. Rich people are ruthless no matter the era

[@KJottu]

hmm i guess that just means that you should unload everything before you can go to heaven

[@RexFuturi]

​@@Ozone946 Being rich or poor has nothing to do with it.

[@CTOSHLL]

To be truly rich. You have to have some level of greed. Don't listen to this guy It's blasphemy

[@brianhenry7348]

This makes me think of an old SNL skit that I unfortunately can’t find anywhere now. It was about a man (I believe played by Bill Pullman? Maybe Alec Baldwin) who had accumulated a massive fortune and was now pouring lots of money into scientific research into how to get a camel through the eye of a needle. It involved shrinking camels, making huge needles, and even trying to liquify camels. Anyway, very cool video! Interesting to hear the theories explained and then countered. Thank you so much.

[@ytusersumone]

We can just make a bigger "leather needle" and make thread/string of a camels skin, grind the bones and put that into the hairs that also are made to string, and also into the intestines that are easily made into string. It takes some time and effort but it's not nuclear science or even chemistry. St. Peter surely can't refuse entry after that!

[@robertdouglas8895]

As usual, SNL just doesn't get it.

[@Psychol-Snooper]

@@robertdouglas8895 Not a fan of satire? I think someone trying to cheat their way into heaven is not only funny but adroit commentary on human nature. It's not like you can just buy an indulgence anymore.

[@robertdouglas8895]

@@Psychol-Snooper The kingdom of heaven is within you. It's not of this world. It's spirit. We are on the earth but not of the earth. If you are going to do satire and make it educational then you need to know this instead of just play around in the world. Spiritually, we know the kingdom through being humble to it instead of by getting accolades from the world for our cleverness.

[@Psychol-Snooper]

@@robertdouglas8895 Isn't that special!

[@therealkillerb7643]

Resurrecting an old video, both of the explanations here were known to me, fifty years ago, where they were common in evangelical churches - IOW, not a recent Internet phenomenon. However, the idea that the "Eye of the Needle" was a gate in Jerusalem, cannot be dismissed simply because the first literary reference occurs in the 11-12th century. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD - and the second century and beyond church fathers were all Gentiles, with no specific knowledge of pre-destruction Jerusalem geography. However, the crusades occurred in the 12th century, meaning that when they arrived in Jerusalem, they may well have encountered people there who said that a certain gate was known as the "Eye of the Needle." Hence, it would not be surprising that this meaning would have been obscured for so long. Not saying it was, only that it is plausible.

[@SixPieceSuits]

I love that you described a 500 year period as a "sudden explosion" in the popularity of that interpretation

[@richwilson7619]

In the context of time, 500 yrs is sudden. Lol

[@laz5590]

​@Rich Wilson not in Your time 😄

[@tylowstar9765]

He described the mass adoption of the theory in th 19th century specifically as a 'sudden explosion', not the entire 500 years. Which is a fair description.

[@2adamast]

@@tylowstar9765 "... sudden explosion between the eleventh and sixteenth century" 11:50 Which is an unfair description

[@laz5590]

@Rizza wouldn't be better if we had evidence about any gate that had the name "Eye of the Needle" ? I mean any gate! Anecdotes are "good," but evidence is much better !

[@richardsivitter3912]

I was never taught about it but always found it one of the easiest to translate messages in the bible. In order to get rich you have to make certain moral choices(seeing as the bible is about a code of morality), where you choose your own wealth over helping others

[@seltic13]

as well as if you have been greedy hoarding money, everyday you see people struggling and turn the other cheek. from every aspect jesus was not down. then look at the only time jesus demonstrated with physical action... flipping over the money lenders businesses in riot/protest. so stretching as one is want to do gives some creedence or understanding of destruction of businesses. i think i made it clear but not feeling clever Jesus was down with BLM and antifa tactics even through pope carlson said it was bad.

[@krinkrin5982]

Which ignores the fact that you could be rich by the simple fact of having been born into wealth. However, seeing as the bible is very fond of condemning people for the sins of their ancestors, I am not surprised at all.

[@kerwinbrown4180]

The rich person symbolizes humans in general. The love of wealth of the rich have is an obstacle to them but others have their own idols they may hold onto.

[@zakdickerson9154]

@@krinkrin5982 You can be born rich and then take the money that has been given to you and share it with the needy. You aren’t “doomed” to be rich forever just because you are born rich…

[@klalbritton]

Or even worse, you deliberately exploit others to build your own personal wealth. Even if you're born to wealth, that wealth was still built upon and maintained via the exploitation of the labor of other people. Very contradictory to the notion of reaping what one sows. Then again, the Bible is consistent in it's ability to contradict itself 🤷🏽

[@AggrivatedMonk]

With the "gate" theory, i always thought it to mean: a camel must offload their worldly posessions to pass through. indicating what a rich person must do to get into heaven. "those who love their life will lose it" etc.

[@antoineharvey-boudreault5565]

Noooo this saying is clearly dressing the power imbalances taht capital causes and the immorality it synthesizes

[@SlavicAfatarly]

its what it means actually, so you're not wrong, this video doesnt do good job explaining it,

[@Inv8erZlM]

@@SlavicAfatarly Got any examples of the gate being called that?

[@Tmarc7665]

Yes this is the exact meaning!

[@snorman1911]

But that's not the comparison being used, so that explanation makes no sense.

[@vikingsoftpaw]

During religious instruction in high school, We were told this was a metaphor. Threading the eye of the needle was an ancient siege tactic. Soliders would remove the blocks in the city's wall and attempt entrance that way. Yes you can get a camel through, but it is difficult.

[@mrsatire9475]

[@ameribeaner]

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to him, “Then who can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:25-27‬ ‭ESV‬‬ Sorry, don’t mean to get theological on a religion channel but there it is, Jesus is saying it’s impossible to earn your way into heaven. The Rich Young Ruler was asking about how to earn his way into Heaven. After hearing the cost he went away sad, then Jesus says this famous saying. Love the channel & again I apologize for bringing theology onto your religion channel, please keep up your good work.

[@timothymclean]

You'd be surprised how far Biblical literalists will go to avoid admitting the obvious. (Probably helps that most of them have read less of the Bible than your average ex-Christian...)

[@ameribeaner]

@@timothymclean what really surprises me about Biblical literalist is how they’ll eagerly chop up the Bible to defend whatever it is they’re trying to defend. They’ll make a figurative passage literal and make a literal passage figurative just to sound like they know what they’re talking about. And they will never take a passage in its context.

[@DneilB007]

It’s really clear what the text is saying-not that it’s impossible for a rich person to get to Heaven, but that *no one* is getting to Heaven without God. *We* cannot earn entry. God miraculously grants it.

[@myronmason8170]

I interpret it as basically Jesus saying no one can can decide who is saved and that is something only God can decide. And also that wealth is not proof of being saved. We have to remember that during that time, and even somewhat today, being wealthy was a sign of having received God's favor and being blessed. Thus when Jesus said that a rich man has no guaranteed to get into heaven, that was a real shocker to his listeners.

[@Anubis626]

I don't think you can give religion an appropriate treatment without discussing theology. I think of religion as the hardware and theology as the software. I think the fuller meaning of the needle-focused theory would have been helpful for viewers, but the guy only has so much time and I get that.

[@j.s.matlock1456]

I was a child when I first heard the eye of needle/small doorway theory from my great grandmother. She heard/read it somewhere, and I can remember her scouring her Bible trying to prove or disprove it.

[@z.louisecoombsrambouillet8395]

It's not that it's in the Bible it's that history and history scholars have known this definition and thus is why it has been repeated

[@j.s.matlock1456]

@@z.louisecoombsrambouillet8395 I inherited my healthy skepticism from my great grandma. She'd heard someone preach about the eye of the needle being a small doorway, but she wasn't going to accept it until she verified it against holy writ - which she was not able to do, but not for lack of trying. In the same way, I grew up listening to preachers illustrate their sermons with apocryphal stories presented as gospel truth. We didn't have any internet back then to make them cite their sources.

[@Hubris73]

My favorite thing about the Needle Gate theory is how much of a fool it makes God/Jesus out to be. In the original understanding of the verse He employs a metaphor that, in an almost miraculous fashion, has managed to maintain a clear and concise meaning through THOUSANDS of years of changing language, culture, translation, and technology. In the gate theory, he instead uses a veiled localized geographical reference that wouldn't even be understood by most of the people of that time. Brilliant.

[@WojciechP915]

Not saying the gate theory is correct, but the new testament is full of local references, idioms, metaphors that would only be understood by locals.

[@th3unmaker]

@@WojciechP915 like what?

[@WojciechP915]

@@th3unmaker Matthew 4:19 "I will make you fishers of men" is the first line that comes to mind.

[@th3unmaker]

@@WojciechP915 that isn't a local idiom. Just like all the others i can think of, it is a practically universally understood one.

[@omarb7164]

@@WojciechP915 could you think of another example? “Fishing” isn’t at the top of my list of localised, obscure professions, and while location names and people are referenced throughout, none of them are so implicating that a passage is indecipherable unless the listener was familiar with the colloquial name for a small spot in town.

[@hbh19hs29]

To tax the the Merchants they had a narrow construct called the Needle so only 1 Camel at a time could go through at a time, and they taxed each camel that went through, Jesus was saying a camel had less trouble going through a narrow construct, Because a Rich man With all his wealth can not take his Wealth to Heaven, you cannot Love God and Money.

[@nicholaskonwest4697]

It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than to create more thoroughly researched content. Bravo!

[@ambinintsoahasina]

This channel is underrated. I'm a Christian who wants to practice proper exegesis and this is just pure gold

[@chompythebeast]

If you're motivated enough, learning Koine Greek (the Ancient Greek of the Bible) is as "easy" as learning any ancient Western language, since it tends to use word order that is very familiar to modern audiences. One way to do this on your own is to acquire an Interlinear Bible that has your preferred translation on one page and the Greek on the opposite (or in alternating lines)―with just the ability to sound out Greek letters and a small vocabulary, you'll be able to see differences between how the New Testament was recorded and how it is relayed to moderns today. It's more work than watching a KZbin channel, but if you happen to feel your very soul depends on it, it's well worth it

[@ambinintsoahasina]

@@chompythebeast Waw, thank you so much mate. Do you have any tips for Old Testament? I mean, will Ancient Hebrew do it or any other language be more suitable?

[@UniversoulUniverse]

🔑⚖️👉🏽kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpyTnH2vn76paqM

[@ambinintsoahasina]

@Eddard Tyrsson Thanks, so the study of masoretic text will have little to no advantage over the Septuagint right?

[@Mike_Jones281]

The Bible says you should go out am enslave the heathens around you. If you are not willing to enslave people, then you will never reach your goal of living life faithfully as to the "text."

[@jared_bowden]

An issue somewhat similar to this that I think would be interesting to cover is the singular usage of the word "epiousios" in the Lord's prayer, which is usually translated as "daily" but who's original meaning has been lost.

[@scaper8]

I can't remember where, but I have this feeling that he has talked about it. It may have been some other channel though, I can't be certain.

[@MissMeganBeckett]

9:42 I had heard that the eye of the needle was a particularly narrow difficult mountain pass at Sunday school decades ago, but I guess that was probably a later interpretation of the small pedestrian gate in a city wall theory?

[@ravenironwing]

The camel and an actual needle really mesh with everything else Jesus taught. For example, when he told the wealthy man if he wanted to follow him and enter into the kingdom of God then he had to sell/give away everything he had.

[@oftin_wong]

Other people said .... what Jesus was supposed to have said and taught

[@ravenironwing]

@@oftin_wong sounds very probable.

[@paulbeard3238]

Or as my mother said there are no pockets in a shroud.

[@kingdomconcepts777]

Deuteronomy 15. It doesn’t say sell everything. It says sell everything that you don’t need.

[@briananthony4044]

It is not the man's wealth keeping him out of heaven, it is his "love" of wealth that's the problem. In the OT many of God's favourite people were extremely wealthy, but always put God first.

[@disgruntledtoons]

It already makes perfect sense. A camel can pass through the eye of a needle, by cutting it into very small pieces. This is no more radical a transformation than turning a rich man into someone fit for heaven.

[@Awol991]

Blender.

[@gmkar7766]

Indeed. A rich man is only fit for heaven if he is mincemeat.

[@drayko-okamidirewytch5542]

Its almost like the creator of this video like many who think themselves enlightened on the philosophy used in the bible completely missed the wisdom trying to be conveyed in this statement, rope or camel the ease of getting either thru the eye of the needle is compareable to the difficulty of a rich person being worthy of entering the heavenly afterlife. Seems the word of god neednt be perfectly worded the ignorant will never divine the wisdom intended regardless what wording is used. Like how most take the bible literally and not seeing it as a means of conveying concepts beyond a material minds grasp. Philosophers like Alan Watts and others have thru out time tried to help the masses understand how to properly interpert the bible but few listen.

[@robf2952]

How small would those pieces need to be 😂

[@fiaTheFae]

@@drayko-okamidirewytch5542 That was a lot of words, but you sure didn't make your point clear-at least, not to me.

[@jerrytang3146]

I'm trying to make sense of the passages: Don't fall in love with money (and all the privileges) that come with it. Keep what you need (Only you can determine that) and use the rest to help the less fortunate. This is a recurring lesson from Jesus- with or without the camel or the needle.

[@KingBobXVI]

"and use the rest to help the less fortunate" If only most Christians actually read their bible, lol. Jesus also says to pay your taxes, lol.

[@michelej9496]

Don't store up treasures and the Rich man and Lazarus.

[@hellwithit]

No. No offense But it is a ripped off passage from the old testament

[@RealLukifer]

@@KingBobXVI who are you talking to

[@captain6876]

@@KingBobXVI I'm alright with paying taxes as long as the government doesn't use that tax money to fund organizations like the United Nations who help criminals get to well developed countries as "refugees"

[@tooyoungtobeold8756]

I visited Acre, in Israel someyears ago and was told that the eye of a needle was not a needle - but the small door in the large city gates which allowed people to scramble through at night, leaving their animals (camels) outside. There is one such door in Acre.

[@AncientAmericas]

Thanks for explaining the gate theory. That's the interpretation I was taught as a kid.

[@muticere]

Prosperity Gospel has its roots deep back in the medieval era, seems like. But yeah, as a teen in the LDS church I was taught both interpretations, which isn't surprising because there are a lot of rich mormons.

[@chriss780]

@Denmark Empire prosperity - eg having enough to live comfortably, or having a good family who makes you happy is absolutely not the same thing as having an excess of material wealth the way the super rich do.

[@simonacerton3478]

Ah, a very elegant catch there. The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus . For maximal hilarity watch the video in which Jim Caveziel who while playing Jesus was properly crucified nails and all (by surgeons) and struck by lighting and whose response to that was "Thank you Lord!" talk to the Property Gospel types . Two different religions . One book. Honestly your average parolee in church trying to go straight would be far more recognizable to Jesus than almost any rich man. After all Jesus was the guy who told a rich man to \give away everything and follow him (he didn't) and took a killer to heaven.

[@danielnapoli649]

Thank you for setting me straight" I was always taught the small gate theory. It implied that the task was very difficult... but not impossible. I am left to meditate on the implications of this interpretation. Boy I hope the market doesn't recover!!!

[@lizh1988]

All things are possible with God. Jesus says the Queen of Sheba (who was immensely rich according to the Bible) will be better off on the judgement day than the not so rich people of Capernaum and Bethsaida. Because she sought great wisdom and paid a lot to get it, and travelled far for it. Whereas literally Peter and Andrew LIVED in Bethsaida or were from there. So the wisdom rich people of Bethsaida were stupid, except for the wisdom rich brothers Peter and Andrew. They listened to Jesus and despite knowing it would be difficult, did what he said and did.

[@joshuacollins385]

@@lizh1988 Which verse are you thinking of? I know he says the Queen of Sheba would condemn those who were alive at the time of Jesus for dismissing his wisdom, but that doesn't put her in a better situation than them. She traveled 1000 miles to meet the wisest man of the time and to learn from him, but many of those in the time of Jesus wouldn't listen to wisdom when it was right in front of them, so on judgment day when she and they are raised to be judged, she'll criticise them for ignoring what was in front of them when she traveled 1000 miles to find something lesser. He doesn't say she'll come out of judgement day well, only that she'll condemn them

[@cacogenicist]

It seems to me that Christianity is mostly re-hashed from earlier belief systems -- except, maybe, for some of its quite radical elements. But people don't like those radical parts (poverty, absolutely _extreme_ pacifism, loving your enemies, and such). Almost no one follows the admonitions in the Sermon on the Mount.

[@lizh1988]

@@joshuacollins385 I doubt God would allow her to judge them if it were not for the fact she made a much better choice in his eyes. Just as the Apostles will judge the twelve tribes of Israel, which he would not allow had they made truly bad choices in their lives. My Bible says she will be better off on the judgement day. That's what my Bible says. I'm sorry but you are nitpicking semantics in my eyes. Clearly rhose who listen to the Holy Spirit will be able to judge those who do not.

[@13shadowwolf]

Here's the correct way to understand what the passage means. Jesus was a Non-materialist, he valued the human Spirit over the burdens of Materialism. He attacked the Moneychangers in the Temple because they were corrupting the Spirit of Man. Jesus didn't want his followers to be burdened by attachments to material things, spirituality was the expeceted standard by which to understand God. Jesus would have rejected modern Christianity as corrupted by Capitalism. Now think about all the people, that are making a living off of selling the words of a Non-materialist. Jesus would have condemned modern Televangelists and Preachers as Heretics.

[@tylersingleton9284]

I thought this had to do with the camel going through the man sized gate in the city wall called the eye of the needle. The camel would have to have all of it's cargo removed and then crawl on it's knees to get through. Definitely a suitable metaphor for a rich man who is attached to his possession and status.

[@knotNyourHead]

Did you not watch the video? He specifically mentions this.

[@kelvenguard]

it is a small gate into a City.... BUT JESUS is Talking about KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS and if you want to WAKE UP take Note to which COMMANDMENTS are MISSING !!! Eyes to See Ears to Hear :)

[@lee461X0]

I was told the same thing by our preacher as I was growing up in the Southern Baptist church. The small personnel gate in the city wall was called the Eye of the Needle.

[@angelosophy]

@@kelvenguard There are 613 commandments to follow in the Torah. Additionally, James tells us that if you transgress even one law, you are guilty of breaking all of it. You cannot possibly fulfill the Law. That was Christ’s job. He was righteous and perfect on our behalf. To live a life under the Law is to live a life in the shadow of death. There is eternal wisdom in the Law, but to think you can fulfill it is to deceive yourself.

[@ogrelogre8429]

​@@kelvenguard That sounds like apologist revisionism to me.

[@alimanski7941]

For anyone interested about the Talmudic usage: Loosely translated, the Emorah Rabah says "Not a golden palm [tree] nor an elephant entering the eye of the needle", as in things that appear in dreams have some basis in what people ponder, in their hearts. In other words, dreams aren't completely detached from what happens in reality.

[@UniversoulUniverse]

🔑⚖️👉🏽kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpyTnH2vn76paqM

[@Cool-wm7vh]

“With men that trust in riches, it is impossible; but not impossible with men who trust in God and leave all for my sake, for such all these things are possible.” Mark 10:27 JST

[@FrostyGerardo-kr7xs]

Yes. The meaning is everyone takes thing of the camel. Yet a rich man must do the work himself

[@ibmibm691]

The Pharisees heard Yashua said, one will be risen from the dead and enter either paradise until you can believe you will be risen from the dead.

[@commonberus1]

When many years ago I took Religious Studies at school I noticed the writer of the standard school text book seemed to be confused about this issue. So thanks for clearing this up.

[@TrueFork]

I remember in my Catholic school days, much was made of the theory that there may have been a gate in Jerusalem called 'the eye of the needle' where a camel may have been able to get through and therefore Jesus was totally not saying that rich people can't get into heaven, since it's not like he ever said or did anything else suggesting that he didn't much like rich people right?

[@seigeengine]

I mean, it's muddy. There are examples from back then of the general saying being used to refer to things actually done, or to God being able to do what man cannot, as Jesus also alludes to. One could reasonably interpret the passage as saying that no rich man without god can enter heaven. In any case, Jesus is quite clear regardless that what a rich man should do is use his wealth to give to the needy.

[@Jkp1321]

You seemed to have forgotten the rest of that gate analogy. It was that the market had a narrow entry, and even the richest men had to get off their camels to walk in (and leave their carts behind) like the common men

[@TrueFork]

@@Jkp1321 That's like saying there are no rich men in heaven because you can't take your riches with you, but that would be a pointlessly trivial statement for Jesus to make, and not in line with, say, Luke 16

[@deusvult6920]

That is not at all the Catholic teaching on this verse.

[@gmkar7766]

Not like Jesus ever said anything radical right?

[@arlagan1820]

Very interesting. I remember hearing in church as a child that the phrase referred to a sort of narrow geological feature or something like that, that required having the camel kneel. The pastor explained that the reference was to how famously stubborn camels were, and that most people traveling with them would be forced to turn back in parallel to the story of the rich man who asks Jesus how to be saved and turns back in dejection. However, I think that the saying being that it is something impossible makes more sense in context of the ensuing verse that it is only possible through God.

[@juch3]

If you hear anybody reciting this story again the only proper response is 9:18

[@HuckleberryHim]

It's funny how every rich or aspiring rich person hearing this will just think "oh, I'm a Christian, I'm one of the good ones, that doesn't apply to ME!" Of course, it's just all those other heathen rich people that Jesus is talking about. They can sleep easy at night, Jesus loves them no matter how much they love money

[@jamesroe4968]

I heard a discussion on this once. The "eye of the needle" is what is called the entrance to a tent. A camel would have to get down on its knees and be led through it by its owner. Thats the closest thing to this gate in Jerusalem.

[@BurnBird1]

What about finishing the video before commenting?

[@jamesroe4968]

​@@BurnBird1I believe I did watch to the end and didn't hear that. It's possible I missed it if they mentioned it but what's the big deal?

[@godlaydying]

This sounds like a variation of the common, but entirely untrue idea covered in this video, that it was a gate.

[@rebecca-borg]

In Maltese, a language heavy with Semitic/Arabic influence, we say 'ġemel' for camel [pronounced: je-mel, as in 'j' in jam]. Because Maltese also has influence from Latin languages the hard 'g' in Maltese words of Arabic root, has over time been sounded out as a soft 'g' in much of our vocabulary. Greetings from Malta ;-)

[@orionion]

If they’d also mistranslated ”love thy neighbor” to ”have a romantic relationship with the person living next door”, the whole world would be a mess

[@herbert164]

oddly enough love is a very easy word to understand the meaning of in greek b/c of the many specific words used for it.

[@diamondsmasher]

Or would it? 😉

[@briananthony4044]

It certainly got King David into trouble, even before it was stated by Jesus.

[@ijatpingrhyb]

The whole world is a mess lol

[@bitterjames]

how so? "romantic relationship" implies a loving, harmonic relationship.

[@briansebor]

Thank-you for discussing my favorite passage of the Bible. The interpretation that damns the rich is very sound, especially when you consider how Christianity was associated with the poor in its early centuriee. The institutionalization of the religion by the Roman state really changed things.

[@vaportrails7943]

It does not damn the rich…you have no understanding. People are only damned because they refuse to put their faith in Jesus Christ. There are many things that can get in their way, and wealth is one of them. That is what is meant by it.

[@shuheihisagi6689]

@@vaportrails7943 Your not following Jesus by being rich, that is the point of the passage. Its a simple line it doesn't need you to use mental gymnastics to make yourself feel better.

[@shuheihisagi6689]

Trump holding a bible upside down makes much more sense now.

[@vaportrails7943]

@@shuheihisagi6689 Anyone who has actually read and studied the entire Bible knows that what I said is right.

[@vaportrails7943]

@@bryanthomas4907 What I said is what he said. But instead of trusting any third party, go read the entire Bible for yourself.

[@jimvick8397]

Then there is the "hey rich kid, sell all your stuff and give it to the poor" parable, which arguably goes along with this one... And the disciples, when they were sent out, were instructed to take almost nothing with them... because God would provide everything they needed. Being a heavy loadout hiker, backpacker, mountaineer type with the underlying philosophy of "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it", that last one is hard for me.

[@paulgauntlet7921]

As someone who wrote a thesis on Joel Osteen, thank you so much for this video

[@paulgauntlet7921]

@@backofthedime9445 not directly but his is a BIG proponent of prosperity gospel, specifically that material wealth is the result of living a faithful life. In his bestselling book “Your Best Life Now” Osteen talks a little bit about Matthew 19 but simply skips the whole parable and then assures the reader Jesus wants us experience economic prosperity!

[@hurdygurdyguy1]

@@paulgauntlet7921 and more importantly give a portion of that Prosperity to him via book sales and tithes to his church! 😆

[@clawsoon]

Every preacher who wants to keep their job with a well-off congregation has to have a sermon series explaining why Jesus didn't actually mean what he said about money.

[@jmccoomber1659]

@@paulgauntlet7921 Osteen is a charlatan, just another money-grubbing self-help guru who tosses in a bit of God in an effort to empty the wallets and hearts of Christians.

[@ginnyjollykidd]

I took"Camel through the/an eye of the/a needle" literally when I heard it as a child. I also tried to make it a quantum camel before I knew what quantum was.

[@MrShanester117]

It seems like you still don’t know what quantum is

[@thorthewolf8801]

In my language, that passage is translated as the camel going through the needle's point.

[@birchtree_6]

@@MrShanester117 where are you getting that? they haven’t tried to explain it yet

[@chompythebeast]

Why were you so concerned with finding a loophole for rich people to pull a fast one on god?

[@neoqwerty]

@@chompythebeast When I was a kid I wasn't wondering about parables or the fates of random rich people, moreso the logistics of a thing being possible.

[@jeffmacdonald9863]

It's really amusing how many people apparently read the title, maybe watched the first couple minutes and then couldn't resist commenting to explain how it was really about a gate in Jerusalem.

[@MrTonyHeath]

I would have pointed out the existance of the gate before listening to the lecture if I could have been bothered.

[@b1ff]

@Jeff MacDonald Yeah, it’s still going on. One lady a few hours ago mentioned how the camel had to be oiled up to make it though the gate.

[@alanderson9711]

The eye of the needle makes perfect sense as a parable but only is you’ve seen it or understand why this phrase was used as a double entendre.

[@willempasterkamp862]

@@alanderson9711 it is all about a Camillus ( the rich young pretender ), compared to a Camelos, Camelus or Camel. same etymology.

[@granthurlburt4062]

Yes. They can't wait to put down their ideas without even listening to the 5 minutes of refutation of the the "eye of the needle" being a gate. Thnking "Don't bother me with evidence. Here's my unsupported speculation!"

[@DarkBlade37]

2:59 If someone’s making a copy of a text, they’re probably consulting an earlier copy and writing what they see. Unless someone is verbally dictating the text to the copyist and they’re writing what they hear, I don’t see how the pronunciation of words is relevant to the copying process.

[@robertevras6577]

Really appreciated your reveal here…..I have to admit….I have taught this as “fact” to my Mens group. Ug…as soon as I carefully verify all of this amazingly well laid out info, my next move will be to set the record straight. Thanks for the nudge!

[@kf10147]

thank you for correcting your information!!! It is so important for us to accept that we can be wrong and fix our mistakes when possible.

[@thefinestsake1660]

Something that might help you out in your mens group: An ellipsis "..." is a place in a sentence where something has been left out. This could be for the sake of brevity, in regards to a quote, or to show that there is something going unsaid. E.g. We hold these truths to be self-evident that all... are created equal. (Excluded: men) If the ellipsis is at the end of a sentence, the period goes after it, so we get 4 dots. E.g. Thanks for the fruit cake.... (Excluded: , but you really shouldn't have. I'm not going to eat it and would never waste rum on it to try and make it a better experience. This is going right in the trash as soon as you leave. But, I love you anyway, and it's the thought that counts.) If one just wants a pause in a sentence, the use of a comma is perfectly appropriate.... Cheers.

[@memyname1771]

So, God let this be taught incorrectly for nearly 2000 years? That makes him appear to be somewhat fallible!

[@JeffCaplan313]

​@Me MyName If he "let" something happen, then he didn't fail maintaining control.

[@2adamast]

It's his interpretation of an interpretation. A sudden 3 minutes dismissal based on zero sources.

[@gregorywhite9095]

This is great stuff...it is abundantly clear, as you point out, that the "gate" interpretation is designed to make the saying more palatable to wealthy people.

[@MrCamaleon7]

The Bible is not against wealth my friend 2 Corinthians 8:9. Jesus was testing the guys faith, in the same way he tested Abraham's faith.

[@MrCmon113]

More palatable to anyone. You must be a real POS if you think rich people shouldn't get into heaven just for being rich. But that's what it says.

[@MossyMozart]

@@MrCamaleon7 - I was not aware that Jesus tested Abraham's faith. Time travel?

[@knowscope]

@@MossyMozart dead

[@ronaldharris9169]

Trying to associate "the eye of a needle" with a particular gate opening in Jerusalem fails also because the actual walls, by the 11th or 12th century had been completely reconstructed and were nothing like the walls that Jesus and His disiples would have seen. He was talking about a sewing needle and a one of those big, goofy-looking camels!

[@muslimreactionary2350]

In Surah Al A'raaf (No.7) Verse 40 of the Quran mentions this Metaphor. The Word (Camel) has a different Quranic readings that leads into two Different meanings; The First reading is the word (Gamal/Jamal) which means a Camel, and the second word reading is (Gummal/Jummal) which means a thick rope or a mooring rope. We accept the two meanings within the Metaphor depends on the Different readings within the Quran. Though the Majority of the Scholars tend to favor the “Camel” Meaning over the Rope.

[@truthdefenders-]

The quran has way too many clear blunders to take it seriously.

[@robintako5440]

@@truthdefenders-projecting

[@RestingJudge]

Eh, rope or camel they ain't going through any needles eye regardless

[@TheArthkm]

Thank you professor

[@Gravelgratious]

Unless you are a rich man who can commission a needle large enough for rope or Camels to pass through.

[@Jittalang]

@@Gravelgratiouscomically large needle

[@roberto8650]

Some rope, eh? 🇨🇦

[@spankyblu]

Unless you have God

[@mommat794]

I'm waiting for one of these billionaires to genetically engineer a tiny camel and manufacturing a very large sewing needle. 🐫 🪡

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

Given that it's camel in so many of the churches that diverged early and also adopted into Islam in an area on the margins of the Christian world it seems highly likely that camel is the original reading. Jesus was preaching east of the Jordan at the time, he and most of his listeners would not be that familiar with Jerusalem so attributing it to a specific gate in the city seems dubious to me.

[@SamytheGreek]

Many years ago I heard the story of the "eye of the needle" from Reverend Dr. Gene Scott that I like best. Scott said that Jerusalem in the old days used to close its large gates at night. One of the gates had a small door in it for pedestrians that come in after hours. If a merchant wanted to bring his camel with all his wears but showed up late he would have to either camp outside the gate till morning or he could unload his camel, pull the camel down to his knees and pull him through the small door way which was called "the eye of the needle" on his knees, then load up the camel again and be on his way.

[@janicestevenson6496]

Here are excerpts from the writings of Marshall Vian Summers which explore how riches and the desire for them or the belief that we are entitled to them can be an obstacle to spiritual development and can also affect humanity's ability to respond to the changing circumstances of planetary life. "In a world of ever-growing population and declining resources, humanity will face a great decision, a fundamental choice in which way to go. Do nations compete and challenge each other for the remaining resources? Do they fight and struggle over who will have access to these resources? Will the wealthy nations of the world insist that their lifestyle must be preserved and therefore enter into competition and conflict with one another, further degrading the rest of the world, robbing the poorer people of the world of their own ability to sustain themselves so that some grand or indulgent lifestyle can be maintained in the wealthy nations? If humanity chooses this path, it will enter a period of prolonged conflict and permanent decline. Instead of preserving and distributing the remaining resources and generating the ability to adapt to a new world condition, humanity will destroy what is left, leaving itself poor and bereft, with immense loss of human life and with very grim and grave prospects for the future... The choices are few but they are fundamental. And those choices must not be made simply by the leaders of nations and religious institutions, but by each citizen. Each person must choose whether they will fight and compete, resist the Great Waves of change, whether they will struggle with themselves and with others to maintain whatever lifestyle they are holding onto. Or will they recognize the great danger and will they unite to begin to prepare... and to build a new and different kind of future for humanity? For you cannot maintain the way you live now. Those rich nations, those wealthy people, those people who have become accustomed to affluence, feeling it is not only a right but an entitlement from God and from life--they must be prepared to change the way they live, to live far more simply, more equitably, for the sharing of the remaining resources will require this." (The Great Waves of Change, MVS)

[@johnchapman5125]

Thank you!

[@tropolite]

Thanks for following the trails to their conclusions. I've heard many varied thoughts, 'facts', and expressions on this verse. Later in life I went to a Pentacostal Christian college for a couple years in Bible Studies and Christian ministries. I was one of those students that would question and would question again. Not to cause friction but to understand and learn for both my head and most of all my heart and spirit. I'm sure some of the lecturers were happy to see me gone after graduating. In regard to this scripture we did have a lecturer attempt to suggest the gate concept. That concept didn't last for long nor did that portion of that lecturer's teaching. Most of the those we did have taking us through scripture was very sound and did a wonderful job expounding scripture to our sprit, soul and body that eventually got to our intellect. Today you did likewise. Thank you.

[@audioartisan]

Whether it's a cable, or a camel, you still can't get either through the eye of a needle. So the intended meaning remains, despite the translation.

[@BumbleCrumble1072]

You could with the camel if you crushed it into paste

[@waltersstreet]

This channel is great, as always

[@quesoblanco444]

I recently read an op-ed that argued when Jesus said "go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven." He was commanding Christians to become wealthy and successful businessmen.

[@jmpattillo]

Prosperity gospel heresy.

[@eragonsap5346]

lol pls share

[@DaveCM]

I've never heard that one. They usually love the "plant a seed" one which is taken WAY out of context.

[@sneasalmaster]

seems like in america these days, not even self-proclaimed christians believe in christianity

[@NJ-wb1cz]

Obviously they were talking about investing. Invest all your money in companies that profit off of poor people and you'll go to your grave with massive returns

[@gu2574]

I always thought it meant that since it would be physically impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, it would be impossible for a rich man to enter heaven just solely based on how much $$ he has.

[@some102]

I've been binge watching your content! I love constructive and interesting debate on every topic but especially Religion and Theology. I'm showing the to my friends who have been seeking other interpretations on mostly TikTok. I grew up in a very religious Christian home and studied everything I could about the Bible the history and translations. I'm no longer a part of the church but I still find myself absorbing everything I can about history of Christianity, Judaism and Islamic religions practices and beliefs and how much it changes bc of society at the time or better translation and more.

[@OnTheThirdDay]

I hope you are aware of what he rest of Mark 10 says because the guy in the video said that Jesus was teaching that rich people cannot go enter the Kingdom of Heaven, when it clearly is commenting on the difficulty of it due to the corrupting nature of riches. The study of the text is interesting, but with a blunder.