The cases for and against Jo Martin being the 14th Doctor

It's hard to know when it's going to happen, but at some point Jodie Whittaker will end her time as the 13th Doctor, and that inevitably brings up the question of who should take up the role next. But this time we're in a unique position of having already been introduced to a new Doctor and (at time of writing) we don't know where Jo Martin's "Fugitive Doctor" fits in the character's personal timeline. So she may in fact be the next one to take on the role. But is that a good idea? Let's dig into it.
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[@CouncilofGeeks]

Video was filmed prior to the announcement of Jodie Whittaker and Chris Chibnall leaving the show in 2022.

[@blackphoenix77]

You must have sensed an announcement coming

[@CouncilofGeeks]

@@blackphoenix77 my Whovian sense is tingling!

[@Phantom6.6.6]

I think your right that Jo deserves the chance to be the doctor but the BBC may not do it as depending on if doctor who will even continue with its dropping ratings. Jo has been put in a bad spot as many see her as being forced in by chibnal especially with how her intro wrecked a lot of established lore in the most hated episode in Dr who history. BBC will need to find a way to retcon a lot of chibnals who era for people to accept Jo as the next doctor

[@curtismckenley8706]

@@Phantom6.6.6 her episode was one the most liked of the chibnall era. She was the doctor everyone was say should have been 13

[@TheBlackSaint]

It also infuriate me that Chibnall established that the Doctor was originally a Black girl who was experimented on (by a white woman) and never really explored that beyond shock value. Seems weird that the Doctor had an entire regeneration cycle as white men but earlier regenerations (according to the flashback) was far more diverse

[@Latriise]

I agree. Jo Martin was amazing. Chibnall might have done a "stunt" casting, but on her on merits she proved herself to be the Doctor. And in less than 5 minutes. I took to her immediately.

[@rosco31100]

She deserves better.

[@molluskweddin]

I keep saying that Jo Martin was a better Doctor in ten minutes than Whittaker has been in two seasons. I’d love to see a full season of her.

[@marcos-ll2yr]

she is better than Jodie. She was amazing

[@simonholland7147]

I really need three full seasons of her as the doctor, fugitive or as 14

[@Tharries]

Above anything else Jo Martin earned and deserves the opportunity to play the next Doctor. I'm in the camp that you mentioned of not particularly taking to Jodie but thinking that Jo just had that "spark" instantly and I can't quite describe it but it would be a shame to let it go to waste.

[@Scrunk194]

True, but I feel it would take away a lot of the surprise of casting the next Doctor. Part of what makes a new series with a new doctor so exciting is seeing how it’s gonna be different, but since we already have a fair idea of Martin’s doctor, it won’t have that element of surprise. That said, she is a great doctor, and I would have no qualms with her appearing in future episodes, and if she doesn’t become the next full-time doctor then Big Finish needs to get on that shit ASAP and give her doctor one hell of a story.

[@chaserseven2886]

yeah id love a doctor that would would fight me like do some karate moves

[@recker198]

@@chaserseven2886 That doctor already exist.

[@dustinakadustin]

Yeah I agree with you, she just was The Doctor!

[@SirStrangefolk]

They left it intentionally vague where the "Fugitive Doctor" fits into the Doctor's timeline. But I'd honestly prefer it to turn out she was never a pre-Hartnell Doctor. Her Doctor was already called "The Doctor" and had a police box TARDIS. If Martin is a pre-Hartnell Doctor then not only does the Timeless Child retcon the Doctor being a mysterious being with countless regenerations, but it would also undo what we know about the Doctor choosing that name and stealing the Type 40 TARDIS that got stuck as a Police Box in An Unearthly Child. Now her not remembering 13 and disliking the Sonic Screwdriver also implies she's not just 14. Perhaps they could have Jodie regenerate into Jo Martin and have Jo Martin play a dual role as 'our' doctor and the mysterious 'Fugitive Doctor' who is from an alternate dimension or something. Kind of sucks Chibnall introduced her in this way so that either the first black Doctor is a minor footnote character or the next showrunner will be pressured into casting someone chosen by the previous showrunner rather than getting to pick one themselves like RTD (Eccleston), Moffat (Smith) and Chibnall (Whittaker) all got to do.

[@rosco31100]

I'd praise the new show runner if they put their own vision on hold to bring back Jo Martin, even if only for a single series. But if they don't I'll consider it Chibnall's mistake for not doing more with her.

[@Parker8752]

Yeah; far as I'm concerned, her existence still only makes sense as a 6B type thing.

[@thomaswedge42]

I've always liked the idea that Jo Martin's doctor is between the 2nd and 3rd Doctor when the Doctor was working for the Timelords Celestial Intervention Agency, as we saw an older Patrick Trouton with Jamie working for the Timelords during The Two Doctors crossover with the 6th Doctor. We did not see Two regenerate just Three falling out of the TARDIS. This would explain why Jo Martin's Doctor uses the Type 40 Police box, as a pre-Hartnall doctor would not have the police box TARDIS. We also know in cannon that Timelords can erase memories as well as grant additional regenerations, so I like to think that the Doctors memories of their time in the CIA and the fugitive doctor regeneration was erased for secrecy by the Timelords.

[@Silverwind87]

It might be that she was the original Third Doctor, working for the Division AKA the Celestial Intervention Agency, then retroregenerated back into the Second Doctor, gaining back the second regeneration which was then used to become the Third Doctor working for UNIT. This would've made the Doctor lose all memory of this incarnation.

[@samuelbarber6177]

Jo Martin’s story seems like the stuff Big Finish plots are made of.

[@dante6985]

As an earlier Doctor from Timeless Children, yes. As the 14th Doctor, why not? Colin Baker, Peter Capaldi... probably others, all appeared on the show earlier before their tenure. Addressing Peter's Capaldi's early appearance was cringe. That's it.

[@samuelbarber6177]

@@dante6985 and, if you want to be thorough, you can (arguably) bring up the Curator from Day of the Doctor, as he’s implied to be a later incarnation, but is portrayed by the wonderful Tom Baker, so the inference here is that the Doctor can revisit older faces, so they can go with Jo Martin as Doctor 14 without changing anything about the current story, and it would make sense as the Doctor is exploring their origins to have a face that will bring them back to said origins

[@dante6985]

@@samuelbarber6177 Absolutely.

[@doctorravenclaw2649]

With Chibnall leaving, I think Jo Martin is unlikely to be the next Doctor as a new showrunner will presumably want to cast their own Doctor.

[@grafikpapst]

Yeah, I think it would be unfair to force the next showrunners hand for something that the BBC and Chibnall did wrong by not being considerate enough.

[@Elwaves2925]

@@grafikpapst Yes, that is a point I'd also thought of. It also depends on what, if anything, Chibbers does with the character over the next season and specials. He may confirm exactly where she fits in it all, which could open up her own series or adventures through Big Finish. Or maybe he'll write her out of existence, make her a Master/Missy or whatever. Who knows with his writing.

[@Elwaves2925]

@@joeespin4377 I agree in regards to Doctor Who but Broadchurch was fantastic IMO. Which means that was either a fluky one off, or it's sci-fi he can't handle. :-)

[@doctorravenclaw2649]

@@Elwaves2925 I kind of agree that Chibnall isn’t a great sci-fi writer since many of his best Torchwood episodes e.g. Countrycide and Adrift didn’t have that much sci-fi in them.

[@rosco31100]

While I think it's unlikely, I'd give mad props to the new showrunner if he/she brought bark Martin. Even if it was arranged to be just for one series then she'd leave, at least it would be something.

[@AWinterLullaby]

As much as I'm glad to see Chibnall leave, I resent him for already making his way out and basically dooming Martin's Doctor to be a one off thing. The fact that he gets the "I introduced the first black doctor" cookie without even planning a future for her is infuriating.

[@KellyBurdoo]

100% this!!!!

[@B-MC]

And its so weird to announce leaving with a series and a half to go. Even if season 13 suddenly gets some things right,, it'll have a "this is it, this is all you get. We finally figured it out but we've already bailed." tone to it. And there will still be several specials to go. We'll watch everything under the lense of an exit, but they won't leave likely the end of 2022. Also theres been so many breaks and inconsistent scheduling that they never really felt fully here to begin with. Its a bit like how Sherlock just kept resurfacing every so often. So annoucing leaving after 2 seasons but having another 2 to go feels very Schrodingers Cat.

[@rosco31100]

That's why he did. He wanted the cookie, as you put, of having the first female Doctor and the first black doctor. He didn't think of wider implications or how it would make people feel by reducing Jo Martin's incarnation to a footnote. It was all about getting credit. In time though, he'll probably come to regret that decision. He got praised in the moment, but if the whole story turns out the way we expect, and Jo Martin never returns in his era, he'll get no love for what he did.

[@irrevenant3]

It's entirely possible that he *did* plan a future for her, but circumstances have resulted in him leaving early. Heck, we may even still *see* that future. It's far too easy to go assuming negative motives to people when we really don't know. I think we should avoid that.

[@rosco31100]

@@irrevenant3 What circumstances? He said he always planned to leave after three series. Should I not believe this? I agree, I'm being negative and probably overly harsh, and yes, he might well prove me wrong in series 13. But it bugs me and here I am getting it out of my system by agreeing with AWinterLullaby.

[@spencerluther6485]

In Day of the Doctor, Tom Baker has the one-off line ‘perhaps you’ll be revisiting some of your old faces’, or something like that. And I know it’s just a quickie explanation for why we got the Tom Baker cameo, but honestly, why couldn’t the doctor regenerate into one of her past faces (as you said)? Then Jo Martin could be an earlier doctor AND the fourteenth doctor. Great analysis!

[@brucesimmons5517]

Yes! That is a great idea. Although now that we have the information that Chibnall is leaving, I don't see it happening...

[@trollzynisaacjohan1793]

Because Hartnell was the first doctor literally. Timeless child is horseshit.

[@thatmanrunning]

In a comic, they even show the Curator is one of the doctors future incarnations. Moffat wanted to leave it vague as to weather or not that was the moment 11 meets. But it has been stated now that the doctor can have the same body (or an older version of the same body) twice.

[@IceNixie0102]

Ever since that line, I've wanted Tom Baker as the doctor again. Even if it was just for a special or something.

[@Silverwind87]

Like the Sixth and Twelfth Doctors, both of whom looked like someone else.

[@di7770]

The Whole Bring back Tennant back thing really bugs me, 1. It'll never happen and 2. That sentiment is impacting Doctor Who. It's the reason why they keep reusing tropes and stories as the compromise to that outcry, Tennant and Russell come back, be more like Russell. It's restricting the shows creativity, the show needs to take a step back from that era of the show, no matter how good it is.

[@rosco31100]

What bugs me even more, is that Tennant is back in the extended media! If they want more Tennant then go and support Big Finish. But then it's all, "No! I can't listen to audio! I need visual!" To which I suggest they look at the cover art while they listen. Because some of the Big Finish cover art is really quite stunning in my opinion. It also shows there is no satisfying these fans. They can literally have the thing they want and they reject it.

[@rosco31100]

@@mrdoctorgilmore I just find it laughable because they're the ones missing out. Literally everyone I've see who has listened to Big Finish says they love it and that they used to be one of those people who turned their noses up at it. I even wasn't sure of it myself, but after my first few stories I was hooked! From what I can see everyone else is the same. I've seen no one, and I mean no, say, "I listened to more than five stories and hated everyone." All they say is, "I can't listen to them." Which is code for I haven't listened to them and I refuse to try it out. When asked pointedly if they have listened, they either go quiet or say no.

[@joseaguilar3323]

It happened after Matt Smith left too. Some people are stuck in the 00s.

[@PlanetNiles]

I'm all for bringing back Tennant; Georgina Tennant!

[@mrdoctorgilmore]

@@PlanetNiles As Jenny or the Doctor? Because I'm cool with both.

[@robspalding9385]

If Chibnall had stayed, there was a possibility. With a new showrunner, there is less than a 1% chance that they choose their first Doctor to be played by someone previously cast in the role. If her story isn't concluded, then yeah, I can see her being brought back occasionally, but she won't get to be the main Doctor.

[@Silverwind87]

Unless Chibnall writes in Jodie Whittaker regenerating into Jo Martin, in which case they gotta do it.

[@alicebethell8069]

@@Silverwind87 he wouldn't be allowed to, the new showrunner chooses the next Doctor. The second he announced his departure, the casting choice was out of his hands.

[@JG-bx1rc]

@@Silverwind87 It's common courtesy for Doctor Who to allow the next show runner to choose the next Doctor. Moffat chose Smith. Chibnall chose Whitaker. Chibnall would only divide the fandom and hurt the franchise to strong-arm the next show runner into a lead they didn't choose.

[@TheBlackSaint]

Yeah, and such a shame. Martin had an amazing back story and a (better) costume and Tardis (in my opinion). She was the standout character frankly of Chibnall’s run

[@JG-bx1rc]

@@TheBlackSaint her costume was leagued better. It’s not even close.

[@benbastianiartmusic1421]

I love how people are saying Doctor Who has become so 'woke' when in McCoy's era (1987-1989) we had a black female brigadier, a Dalek story centred around the toxicity of racism, a story exploring Ace's sexuality, a story bashing on a Thatcher-like female dictator, a black American rapping ringmaster, Ace befriending a Chinese girl, and so on. Doctor Who has always been inclusive and anti-establishment.

[@dustinakadustin]

These people are the same as the toxic star wars fandom. The stories and franchises have never been for them but they desperately want to be apart of it but don't want to believe in what the series is about.

[@wanderlustwarrior]

@@dustinakadustin Too true!

[@dustinakadustin]

@@wanderlustwarrior if you want another nugget of wisdom about these people 😂 most of these typically straight white guys, have to see themselves as the protagonist otherwise they can't relate to them, which is why we see so much pushback against bad minority characters but not against bad majority characters. The typical line being, "don't do it if the character is bad" while ignoring that every other action film just has a terrible generic male protagonist.

[@alicebethell8069]

Also in regards to the idea that the Doctor could borrow their own faces... it was heavily implied that the Curator played by Tom Baker WAS the Doctor and he borrowed an old face that he was fond of. So it has precedence at least.

[@TheGamer201291]

I don’t think he its an implication, the quote is something like “you revisit some of the old favorites” it’s cannon that the doctor can do that

[@irrevenant3]

@@TheGamer201291 It's canon that this mysterious character said it. :) I'm sure you're right that that was the intent, but there's more than enough wiggle room for future writers to interpret it differently if they want to.

[@BlueSparxLPs]

I loved Jo Martin in series 12. She immediately felt like and asserted herself as the Doctor in every way imaginable--in many ways that Jodie hadn't for me, unfortunately--and that might be because they _had_ to due to her much more limited time to establish herself, but she NEEDS to come back as the next Doctor. She'd be amazing in the role.

[@BlueSparxLPs]

@@joeespin4377 You misread my comment. I was praising Jo Martin and saying that Jodie unfortunately didn't hit the same spark for me.

[@allanjohnstone5258]

I haven't been a fan of Jodie's 13th doctor, I have many issues with her but one thing I think she lacks is presence. Jo Martin had presence and commanded your attention, for the very brief time she was on screen she felt more like the doctor to me than Jodie ever has. I would love for her to be the 14th doctor.

[@lcflngn]

+1 Well said. Jodie’s issue partly presence, more rly bad writing to me, still Jo was am-azing.

[@irrevenant3]

@@xenon8117 Personally I think they really need to sit down and work out who Thirteen *is.* IMO it's okay if she's not the same sort of bombastic Doctor as the last few - but in that case, stop writing her as though she is. If she's an unusually uncertain Doctor that's *interesting* (if pretty unfortunate for the first female Doctor) and the writing should bring that out. Figure out who she is and make it *consistent.*

[@irrevenant3]

@@xenon8117 "Bumbling idiot" is pretty common for incarnations of the Doctor (Smith and Capaldi come immediately to mind). Whatever direction they go in with the Doctor needs to have depth though.

[@irrevenant3]

@@xenon8117 Yeah, I know you didn't mean it as a compliment. :) Personally I wouldn't mind that as a take on the Doctor. It would be interesting - the Doctor who doesn't feel they can live up to the example of their predecessors. An anxious Doctor who's trying to "fake it til they make it". But I don't get the impression this is deliberate on their part. The S8 Doctor was out of character too, but the series knew it, was doing it for a reason and explored it. S11-12 don't seem to even recognise it.

[@loganrowan3620]

Unfortunately, I think the way Martin was introduced doomed her from the start. I just don't think it's likey that she'll be the next doctor. The casting called for *another* doctor, meaning it was known that she'd wouldn't be the main focus. Though the representation problem really does suck, I think Chibnall should've never made that casting call, because having the first black doctor not even be the star of their own era is a huge shame.

[@emmamacfarlane8137]

I'm one of those who prefers what we saw of Jo to Jodie, and honestly she has most of the complete package already. I already really dig her as the Doctor and prefer her to many of the usual options being floated around, and combined with her being the first black Doctor, I genuinely hope that's what they go with.

[@sweariefaerie9621]

If they're smart, they'll take audience reception into consideration, and give Jo some extra credit in the deliberation process.

[@PeraudisEquilibrium]

Totally agree with your take re: tokenism. I also have a counter-proposal to your argument against casting JM based on lack of audience surprise. If they were to cast her, assuming she is likely already attached to the upcoming series in someway to resolve the timeless child plot, it would be easier to keep her promotion to series lead a secret, instead of a new face being photographed on set and leaked online. It could provide a very rare opportunity to keep the upcoming doctor a secret until the moment of regeneration.

[@rosco31100]

That's actually a good point. The other thing is, for those who love the anticipation of the reveal, we're in that stage now. We don't know anything!

[@bigneon_glitter]

It's been two years since Jo Martin's episode & we're still talking about her. That's how strong & impactful her performance was. Whomever is cast as 14 won't be living in Jodie's shadow, they'll be in Jo Martin's. That single ep has driven more interest in Who than the entirety of Jodie's run. BBC would be foolish to ignore that fact.

[@-Genxzys-]

It's been a year actually but your point still stands. I'm on the fence that a new doctor would probably be best but at the same time jo martin deserves better

[@Jessica-uo4qk]

Honestly Chibnall already messed up the historic significance of the first black Doctor by introducing Jo Martin as a side character in the middle of Jodie's run, as opposed to allowing her the build up and anticipation of her own solo introduction with her own series like all other Doctors before her. Even if she's cast as 14 that moment is already gone, and now that Chibnall is leaving it seems even less likely she'll be given a fair chance - a fact which is only made worse by his claim that this was always his plan. A colossal oversight on Chibnall's part imho. Such a waste of an amazing actress and an important milestone in Who's history - yet another reason why I'm generally unimpressed with his time as showrunner.

[@doctorravenclaw2649]

Does anyone else think it would be cool if Jo Martin was the 15th Doctor? It would mean that we still get the excitement that comes with a brand new Doctor for the 14th Doctor, while also allowing Martin to be a fully fledged Doctor too. By the time she would be revealed as the 15th Doctor, it may well have been a while since we last saw her, making it a big surprise. I think this is very unlikely (especially given that there will be a new showrunner) but it would be interesting to see.

[@nickchavarria8052]

I’d love to see Jo Martin as the 14th Doctor. But I feel like there’s gotta be some middle ground between “make her the 14th or else” I think she might not though because shes a big part of chibnall era and the next showrunner might want to do their own thing with new characters. And not be tied into the story arc of a previous era.

[@TheBlackSaint]

Yeah, and this goes to the original point that making the first Black Doctor a one-off is ultimately unfeeling and a waste. It also undercuts later show runners who might have wanted to introduce the first Black Doctor. Imagine if Moffat had cast Helen Mirren as the War Doctor. That would’ve still been a great story but it would’ve minimized the later impact of Whittaker as the first woman Doctor. Now, it’s either Martin as the 14th or the first Black Doctor always having an asterisk. It’s a shame bc Chibnall’s departure makes Martin’s casting less likely. It’s infuriating to me because it felt like Chibnall didn’t appreciate the historic nature of Martin’s casting beyond her gender. Revealing there were previous white woman Doctors would’ve have lessened Whittaker’s casting bc it occurred during her run and everyone knows she is the first ever cast.

[@Venemofthe888]

I don't think its impossible for her to come back since John Simm as the master came back after he was in end of time. Hell even sarah jane came back as well. As long as they are alive id say its always possible

[@TheBlackSaint]

@@Venemofthe888 But as Nathaniel said, this would always make the first Black Doctor a one off or unofficial version.

[@Wrightbrain]

Wouldn’t it be an example of Toxic Fandom to demand that Jo Martin be cast as the Doctor or else? Watch or don’t. Demanding to get rid of Jodie, and to demand they cast Jo are BOTH wrong.

[@TheBlackSaint]

@@Wrightbrain I don’t think so. I’m just saying that Chibnall handled this poorly. The first Black Doctor shouldn’t be an after thought.

[@SpedeVesku]

I know you didn't know that Chibnal would leave too when you filmed this, but the new showrunner possibly wanting the freedom to establish the new Doctor by themself, rather than be beholden to what was established by the previous guy, is also an element to be considered.

[@rosco31100]

I'd appreciate it immensely if the new show runner brought back Jo Martin. But if they don't I won't blame them and would understand.

[@nightowl8477]

I think the biggest argument against Jo is that there's a good chance the BBC will want another soft reboot. You can't do that with an actor at the helm who is entirely associated with her predecessor. Which is a shame. Because I do want Jo. Partially because I think it would be a pity if the first POC Doctor only had 45 minutes of runtime in total, but also because I like Jo. I don't _love_ her, not nearly, but she seems cool.

[@Yan_Alkovic]

2:31 Heeeey anyone else caught that Jay Exci shoutout? And, well, you actually expressed my very concise thoughts on _everything_ that Chibnall's done so far: "Maybe he shouldn't have done this is the first place" Though Jo Martin _is_ really cool in the part and I wish we could've had her for the last two series instead...

[@rosco31100]

Did the council say her thoughts on Jay Exci's video anywhere? Just curious what she thought about it.

[@Yan_Alkovic]

@@rosco31100 Well hey, go to 2:31 in the vid, Nathaniel said that she respects the effort that Jay put into it or something along those lines

[@rosco31100]

@@Yan_Alkovic I caught that bit, I was just wondering if there was more she said else where. Having watched the video myself, I agreed with some of Jay's points, but not all of them. And over all I thought it was a well presented five hours. I only needed one break through the whole thing and that was for a meal!

[@mrdoctorgilmore]

With Chibnall leaving, I think the likelihood of Jo being the next Doctor has gone down somewhat. It depends who takes over, the fugitive Doctor was Chibnall's creation and if he was staying I can see it being a possibility, however she may not match the new showrunners vision. I still hope we see her again at some point on the show. She'll probably get a bunch of Big Finish box sets, until then I hope she shows up a couple more times so we can get to know her Doctor better.

[@sirjedisentinel]

The thing I always get hung up on this discussion is the manners of it; I'll try to make sense of that. By series 12, Jodie showed no signs of leaving, she'd even talked in interviews about staying longer (of course, whether by the end of series 13 was always the plan or a recent, we might never really know). So just, in the middle of her run, to say, "by the way, this is your replacement" always just struck me personally as treating Jodie Whittaker & her time as the Doctor with incredible rudeness

[@rosco31100]

A lot of people don't think Jo Martin was ever meant to replace Whittaker and I'm starting to feel the same. Meaning it was just to make headlines and beyond that little thought might have actually been put into it unfortunately.

[@irrevenant3]

@@rosco31100 That seems like a false dichotomy? Ruth is either the next Doctor or just there as some kind of stunt? Can't she be exactly what she appears to be: A previously-unknown former Doctor who we will probably see again in that capacity?

[@rosco31100]

@@irrevenant3 Yes, you have a point. Yes, she can be just an unknown Doctor. But I feel if that is all she is then they shouldn't have cast Jo Martin and made her the first black Doctor. The first black Doctor is just as important as the first female Doctor. And yet, while the first female Doctor gets to lead in her own series, the first black Doctor doesn't. I hope I'm wrong, and Jo Martin is the 14th Doctor and gets to star in her own series. But there is no guarantee we'll see her again.

[@charlestownsend9280]

Two doctors at the same time is a bad idea, mainly for the reasons mentioned here but also consistency for the casual audience. If the rumoured specials are happening I think that a special focusing on her story, maybe leading up to the events of fugitive of the judoon would be good, something to fill in the gaps, give her doctor screen time and also leave the later part of her incarnation to be explored in something like the big finish audios. The biggest problem with having her as the 14th doctor is that we've seen the middle of their life, so the first or even multiple series will be purely setting up fugitive of the judoon (her being mind wiped, the whole galifrey situation, her current companion, her going into hiding), which I think would be a waste of a series. Maybe it could be set up but it would take a lot to set it up this series and not spend a series on getting to the fugitive episode. Borrowing her face would just be to confusing for casual audiences (these are people who get confused with river's timeline). Also I think that they would need to be a good reason for the doctor to want to revisit that body again (maybe you could have it as her not remembering her life as them but that's still a bit meh of a reason for me). I just don't see her doctor being set up to be the next incarnation of the doctor, to me she is clearly written as a past doctor.

[@EmirJYanshu]

I would honestly love for Jo Martin to be the next doctor. I adore what she did when we first saw her. I agree with your reasons. Honestly the whole who will be the next doctor surprise is something that is a bit meh. It wouldn't hurt if this time they decided to reveal that jo is the next doctor. Next time when the new doctor comes. It can be a surprise. But right now currently. I think Jo should be the next doctor. There might be mixed thoughts since again. People love to put theories on who next and could fit the shoes. But just this once. It wouldn't hurt

[@lcflngn]

Wouldn’t hurt at all

[@renegarza9]

Didn’t the Curator from the day of the doctor tell 11 that he was going to “revisit“ a few faces in the future?

[@CouncilofGeeks]

He did indeed.

[@Rmlohner]

One thing I don't see brought up much is that Jodie was originally going to be sprung on us at the end of Series 10 with zero warning that the next Doctor would be a woman, but then Moffat found out Chibnall didn't want to do a Christmas special, so he held off on the regeneration until then, and in the meantime we found out months in advance. I still kind of hope they pull that off here.

[@k.stewart007]

I honestly thought that's what chibnall was planning. Doing the new doctor reveal in the show. But as a "safety net" have it be someone the audience is already familiar with. Plus it wouldn't arouse too much speculation having jo Martin on set. Whereas if for example they wanted to keep the new doctor a secret but had the new doctor filming on set it would be so much harder to keep under wraps. With chibnalls departure announcement its very unlikely to happen. Although what would a new show runner do if in chibnalls last story he wrote, and filmed Whittaker regenerating into Martin. Then said "ok that's where I leave it" 😂.

[@rosco31100]

While that would be great, they can't keep a lid on it that long. Or rather, they're afraid to try. The fear is they get to the day before the episode comes out and someone will spill the beans, if not long before that. I mean, as I understand it, the Council here actually found leaks of the entire series 12 plot line early on into the series. It'd just be too hard to keep it a secret for that long, someone would slip and it'd all come out. But I would love for it to happen just once in our lifetimes.

[@lanegentry6328]

I wasn’t a huge fan of the concept of the Fugitive Doctor, but I loved Jo Martin. She absolutely killed that role. I’m on the fence on whether or not I want her to be the new Doctor. On the one hand, I have no doubt that she would be great in the part. On the other hand, however, I still want to see someone new as the 14th Doctor.

[@maskmaker6374]

To be honest I would love her to be a new version of the Valyard. Since the 6th knew he would turn into him the Valyard changed their tactics and chose a new way to mess with the Doctor. It would also give reason why she was in the Matrix

[@irrevenant3]

I'm not even sure if the original Valeyard is still part of the timeline given the Time War, and the Big Bang reboot, etc. Maybe Ruth is this timeline's version of the Valeyard.

[@RialVestro]

So my thoughts on Jo Martain's Doctor... I like her as the Doctor. I don't like her as a Pre-Hartnell Doctor and I wouldn't like ANYONE being presented as a Pre-Hartnell Doctor. I'm still hoping for someone to come in, retcon the Timeless Chidren so that the Master is the Timeless Child instead of the Doctor as it would explain how the Master keeps returning despite being supposedly killed off permanently multiple times at this point. The Doctor being the Timeless Child just creates a whole bunch of plot holes. I do really like the idea of Jo Martain being a series 6B Doctor cause that's honestly the only place in the Doctor's time line where it would make sense to fit her since we never really officially saw Patrick Troughton regenerate into Jon Pertwee. It's implied that's what happened but there's nothing really officially confirming that there wasn't another Doctor incarnation we don't know about between those two. It's a similar situation to how they were able to fit John Hurt between Paul McGann and Christopher Eccolston. Regarding Jo Martain possibly being the 14th Doctor... I think this could happen and wouldn't necessarily ruin her chances of also being a past incarnation. Remember in the 50th Anniversary when Tom Baker as the Curator pretty strongly implied that he was a future incarnation of the Doctor who had regenerated back into his 4th incarnation. Tom Baker already introduced the idea that the Doctor could revisit past incarnations. This means while Jo Martain could be the 14th Doctor I still don't believe that the Fugitive/Ruth Doctor is the 14th Doctor. I think the Fugitive/Ruth Doctor is a PAST incarnation and Jo Martain showing up as 14 won't change that. The Fugitive/Ruth Doctor and the 14th Doctor would be separate incarnations both played by the same actor much like how the 4th Doctor and the Curator are separate incarnations both played by Tom Baker. Something that I think would help sell the idea that Jo Martain would be playing 2 different incarnations is if she as 14 still has a Sonic Screwdriver, has a more modern TARDIS interior rather than the more classic era looking TARDIS we seen her with before, and has a different outfit. Cause of course the Curator despite still being a Tom Baker Doctor isn't there dressed in his classic outfit, so why would Jo Martain as the 14th Doctor be wearing the same outfit she wore as the Fugitive Doctor? Same face different sense of style. Alternatively they could make Jo Martain as 14 almost indistinguishable from the Fugitive Doctor either because she was always a version of the Doctor with memory loss from the future or because they want to try to fool the audience into thinking they're the same but I think either one of those would be really dumb since we already know that revisiting past incarnations is a possibility. Just introduce Jo Martain as 14 making it really clear that 14 is not the same as the Fugitive Doctor despite being played by the same person. Of course I would prefer that the first revisit would be an actual past Doctor like Paul McGann or Matt Smith not someone they just recently introduced as the Doctor but whatever... I really like the idea that we could potentially get actors who have already been the Doctor playing the role again as a future incarnation rather than just for one off specials. BTW I agree with what you're saying about bringing back past Doctors as future Doctors. That's why my top picks for Doctors that should return if they were to do this would be actors like Paul McGann who never really got to play the Doctor the first time. I know he had been on Big Finish for years but outside the TV movie and the Night of the Doctor he didn't really get to do anything on screen. I also wanted to see more of John Hurt's Doctor but that's not going to happen unless they pull a Richard Hurndall/David Bradley situation where they recast a new actor to play the same incarnation. I don't want to see it as an excuse to simply bring back old fan favorites just for the sake of pandering to older fans. Like Tom Baker already has the longest on screen run of any Doctor we don't need another series of the Curator. I also don't want to see that happen all the time... like do some sort of thing where they occasionally bring back a former actor for a series or two before regenerating into another new actor. That would be great if they could bring back old actors on a temporary basis. Like instead of a spin off, do a series or 2 of a returning actor then three to 6 series of new actors, alternating between between them. As long as they don't rely on the returning actors as a gimmick to try to win back older fans and make it make sense within the current narrative I think it could work.

[@HarveyMidnight]

My personal solution is to tie the next regeneration scene to the Eighth Doctor... 13 steps into the wrong TARDIS, and ends up watching 8 create the Timeless Child story as an utter hoax.... he's trying to head off the Time War before it happens, by offering to negotiate peace between the Daleks & the Time-lords, but the Daleks refuse to accept him as negotiator since he's Gallifreyan---- so 8 creates the false narrative of being the Timeless Child and uploads it into the Timelord Matrix, so he can claim he isn't native to Gallifrey. BUT since 13 is present, the 8th Doc... just like in the 50th anniversary... is acting outside his timeline, and will forget he ever did it. As for the Jo Martin Doctor... I like the '6B' idea: an extra regeneration given to the Doctor between 2 and 3; she worked for an illicit agency and her memories were erased afterward, but only the memories of that one regeneration were erased, before she regenerated to 3. Edit: BUT, if Jo Martin were to become the 'lead'.... the next showrunner doesn't need the construct of having the 14th Doctor 'borrow' Ruth-Doctor's face. The Doctor is a time-traveler, there's no reason they can't have an *earlier regeneration* be the 'new Doctor', who just isn't aware of all the things the last dozen Doctors have done.. the Time War is still a mystery to her, she'll interact with other regulars but won't know them because she hasn't met them yet.. her TARDIS keeps the retro interior.... her run as the Doctor could be a "half-prequel".

[@greenphantomphotography9476]

Personally, I want Jo Martin as 14 too. I think she’d be great. That said, I actually have an idea that I think address a fair number of your concerns, should that not be feasible for narrative reasons (ie: pre-Hartnell or 6B Doctor). And it would be something we haven’t seen before, in an ongoing season. Two Doctors, One Tardis. (Get your minds out of the gutter) Wouldn’t it be neat to have her and 14 adventure together? She’s already been established as some sort of fugitive. So have her on the run. Have one of the two Tardis get stolen, stranded, exploded, or disguised as a taco truck. No human companions. All Doctor, all the time.

[@joseph883]

The whole set of points about the different treatment of Martin as the first Black Doctor being treated as lesser is what has been bugging me since her introduction. Whittaker got all this fanfare and a whole era, Martin seemed destined to only get a few episodes. As much as I liked Chibnall for breaking boundaries, it sucked that he put Martin in such a limited position. I want a WHOLE Jo Martin era because it's what she DESERVES. With Chibnall leaving, it doesn't seem likely and that's..... not so great to say the least. I agree with your point that perhaps Chibnall maybe shouldn't have done it at all--even though that might have given Martin nothing. It hurts even more with Martin being a fan of the show. Capaldi and Tennant got to live out the insane fantasy of their childhood hero. Martin DESERVES the FULL shot to do the same.

[@benignodelrio3459]

Jo Martin will be absolutely brilliant as the Doctor!!!

[@richardsmith146]

Pretty much the first online UK news article I saw about Jodie leaving was titled... "Bring back David Tennant" 😬

[@SpedeVesku]

They always say that 🙄

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I’m gonna f***ing break something I swear.

[@Elwaves2925]

I don't like the term 'true fan' but the only people truthfully saying that, aren't fans of the show. They are fans of Tennant, nothing more. A 'true fan' would know that he will never come back, outside of specials.

[@SplotchTheCatThing]

I'm torn on this one, 'cause while I would like to see the show stay the course and tell the story Chibnall originally wanted to tell-- even if it ends up being bad enough it needs to be retconned, retconning it halfway through telling it is dishonest writing. It's a coward's way out, and I can't respect that. But on the other fork of the tail Jo Martin was amazing in the episode where she showed up and I want to see more of her. So it's gonna depend on the next showrunner and specifically on what they decide to do with whatever story Chibnall ends up telling.

[@rosco31100]

Well said.

[@irrevenant3]

I think Vera/Nathaniel's answer is perfect: Let Chibnall do whatever he wants with Ruth, then the Fourteenth Doctor can take on the face of Ruth and be played by Jo Martin.

[@rosco31100]

@@irrevenant3 I'd love that.

[@worryworm]

Honestly, Jo Martin was a fantastic Doctor. She completely overshadowed pretty much every other Doctor I've seen.

[@tomoswatkin4905]

Great vid, very interesting. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. If they were to cast the next doctor with a different actor, regardless of what happens in series 13 and the specials if Jo Martin is used, would you be disappointed if she's not the next doctor or would it depend on the actor that is cast?

[@micahk9788]

Personal opinion, Jo should be the 15th or 16th Doctor. I can totally see a great way for them switch from Jodie to Jo when she regenerates, but I think going directly from one to the next is a bit obvious. Like, Jo is objectively the best person to take the roll right now, but I want to be told to wait for just a bit longer

[@gladiator652004]

Jo Martin has great screen presence; with a better show runner, she could be a great Doctor.

[@lcflngn]

She’s so IT for me.

[@FrostyMac]

I’m not a fan of the idea for the same reason you have previously expressed displeasure with the idea of, for instance, David Tennant coming back. It feels like Regeneration should be a place for new beginnings, new places. Jo is brilliant, but despite her very few appearances, she has already been the Doctor, flat out. That’s how I see this, at least. I have always considered Doctors who only have one or two stories REAL incarnations, personally. It would have been like if they cast John Hurt as the 12th Doctor after he already played War, y’know? It’s a thematic conflict in my opinion. As for the status of her being the first black Doctor, I agree that it is extraordinarily unfortunate. That being said, the issue there is not with the 14th Doctor casting, it is that she was made to be the Fugitive Doctor in the first place. They should have waited and given her the role proper at a later date, particularly now. That’s on Chibnall, in my opinion, as he has effectively disqualified her from future runnings especially with the incoming new showrunner, and it would, in my opinion, be unfair to pin Chibnall’s mistake here on that new showrunner. This is made even worse with his statement that he always planned to leave after 3 series, meaning this was always the plan.

[@irrevenant3]

I don't think reusing Martin would be the same as reusing Tennant because we had a run of episodes with Ten. Ruth is almost entirely an unknown and, if we see her again, it will be as a bit part in Thirteen's story. I'd say that she hasn't been *the* Doctor, she's been *a* Doctor - and a supplemental one at that. It's really not the same role.

[@WiccanRai]

I'd love it if it turns out that Jo is the 14th Doctor after all. As long as they can find a plausible reason why she can't remember 13, then it's all good. What would happen if 13 is in the presence of Jo's (14th) doctor and regenerates into - Jo's doctor? Would there be two of them or would Jo's doctor disappear first? Just a weird thought I had while watching this.

[@rosco31100]

It could be solved with anything from a temporary mind wipe, to being explained as temporary memory lapse from when she got given all her memories back after breaking the fire alarm. I would find it funny if they had a scene of Jo Martin's Doctor flying away after meeting 13 and then she's like, "Oh, wait. I do remember her now. Ha, oh well." and then just moves on.

[@detectivesquirrel2621]

I still hope that the awful "Timeless Child" turns out to be fake, a plot "created" by the Master as a ploy to distract the Doctor long enough to put his plan into place.

[@aceproffitt8315]

I just have to say this. Your nails are SO BEAUTIFUL

[@redcurrantart]

I wouldn’t mind if she was but I’m actually just hoping BBC goes in and retcons the hell out of A lot of what Chris Chibinall did. It’s to bad Jodi got stuck with him as show runner. She’s great. Chibinall just sucked all the charm and magic from the series.

[@irrevenant3]

True. But that's almost entirely a matter of delivery, not of the stories he chose to write. Most of them are pretty decent ideas that were just executed poorly. There's no real benefit to retconning them, just write them better going forward.

[@Sam-rx7cb]

I would love Jo Martin to be the 14th Doctor. I thought she was great in the role in her brief period. She held the Gravitas and age old wisdom a doctor should always have, and something I feel has been missing lately, which is a big part of why I've never clicked with Jodie.

[@tlewis171]

Whoever takes over will probably have more expectations piled on them than any Doctor since Davidson; if it is Jo Martin, she'll be expected to be fantastic out of the gate (can't you hear 'one hit wonder?' as a reaction to anything less?) and if it's not her, far too many will be complaining about that for all sorts of reasons. I almost wish there would be no 2022 specials, giving the BBC and the new showrunner more time to get things properly planned out (of course, that doesn't mean the BBC would actually allow that development time).

[@ZoahLord]

While I think there's a plot-based obstacle to overcome for Jo Martin to be the 14th Doctor, I think there's something to be said about the type of story that can be told - A new Doctor who has the face of an incarnation that she can't remember being, occasionally coming across places where her earlier self had been and trying to convince everyone that yes she's the Doctor, but not THAT Doctor. You could even show off Jo's range by having different personalities for the incarnations she play, which would be showcased best in the inevitable cross-over episode where both incarnations meet

[@irrevenant3]

I don't know if this is a good idea or not so I'm going to float it for comment: What if Thirteen regenerates into someone other than Martin and that new Doctor is immediately taken out of the equation - kidnapped by The Division, whatever - and the show snaps to the Jo Martin Doctor. We get to know her and her past as she works to find and free the new Doctor. Not too sure where we should go from there - personally I have no problem with the series having *two* Doctors once she manages to free the new one. Thoughts?

[@detectivesquirrel2621]

Jo Martin was great. But... The concept of her being a Pre-Hartnel Doctor just doesn't work. Ignoring the fact the he was established as being the 1st incarnation of the Doctor to have left Gallifrey. But it was His Tardis that arrived in 1960s London and the chameleon circuit getting stuck as a phone box. The fact that her Tardis is a phone box, establishes her as a Post-Hartnel Doctor. Jo Martin as the 14th? I'd be up for that.

[@Companion92]

I really hope we will see more of Jo Martin's doctor in whatever medium. I liked her a lot

[@lisakaz35]

If there's going to be any tweaking or changing to Chibnall's alterations to the doctor's story, wouldn't having Jo Martin come up as 14 be the way to go there?

[@gregsanders61]

Bad fan theory here: Imagine if Joe Martin was the thirteenth doctor and Jodie was a later incarnation or an alternate reality version of the Doctor. We never saw Capaldi reincarnate into her after all.

[@michaelreindel6975]

Maybe end the next series with Whittaker regenerating… but not showing who she regenerates into? Then do a few “flashback” seasons, with Martin as Doctor… 2.5? Between Troughton and Pertwee? And resume the previous timeline when she leaves? Or have her be the 14th, and just say she lied to the 13th? Maybe to keep the timeline intact, or just to mess with her (…the Doctor, notoriously, doesn’t really like themselves, so messing with a previous incarnation just for the fun of it would be in character for them).

[@tkayube]

I was thinking an interesting arc might be to have the Doctor go missing/get trapped in another dimension/whatever in the middle of the regeneration, so the perspective shifts to the Martin Doctor, who has to save her future self. You could have the Valeyard be involved somehow.

[@ishaandw]

Does Jo Martin have any chance of being the 14th doctor, now that Chibnall will be gone too? Would a new showrunner want to take her on from the previous era?

[@rosco31100]

Most likely, no. But never say never.

[@KHDoor2Darkness]

I agree she should be, she was great for the small amount of time she was there and the aspect of her being the first black actor to play the Doctor makes it important not to relegate her to a sideshow. I think the approach of the Doctor returning to that face rather than the Fugitive Doctor being 14 probably makes more sense, and would also mean that the new showrunner can still make a new Doctor, just using a talented actress who was able to slide into the role effortlessly

[@hollow9946]

Doesn’t having jo Martin as the 14th doctor go against what you said about rtd coming back? (Paraphrasing) “bringing back an old show runner could see the series looking backwards instead of forwards”? Seeing as they are already in the 13 doctor series?

[@samuelbarber6177]

I’m not necessarily hoping or expecting her to be fourteen, but I would be glad. She had some of the most pure Doctor energy in just a few minutes, and was simply too good to just be relegated as a subplot in one episode made entirely to set up rather an underwhelming finale, especially since she is the first Black actress in the role.

[@Wrightbrain]

I think the reason some people find Jo Martin’s Doctor more appealing is that she can be intimidating and isn’t afraid to take action to get things done. Jodie’s Doctor is somewhat limited by her pacifist stance. Now while past Doctors have shied away from violence, they did resort to it when needed. I DO believe it’s possible to write a pacifist character and make them effective, but you have to be clever and not just cop out. In Jodie’s stories either the villain takes themselves out or a companion acts without her permission to take them out. Villains were either airlocked, banished back home or imprisioned. Heck, both happened to Tim Shaw. Jo Martin’s Doctor looks like she’d have a more active hand in dealing with foes, making her a more traditional Doctor.

[@safirak7988]

I have a novel suggestion: the 14th Doctor travels with Jo Martin's Doctor (maybe in a special?) and they try to uncover the mystery behind them not remembering each other. Jo Martin's Doctor then becomes a recurring character, Captain Jack style.

[@567secret]

I've thought about this quite a bit... And I think the really smart thing by the DW team here would be, resolve where Jo Martin's Doctor stands in the Doctor's history... BUT take on what the Janitor mentioned in the 50th special, about "revisiting old favourites" AND have Jo Martin form the 14th incarnation as well. Edit: Ah, haha, you actually touch on this 😅

[@Silverwind87]

Okay, I just realized something: The Modern Doctors can be compared to the Classic Doctors. Christopher Eccleston, the 1st Doctor of the revival, is cynical, untrusting of humans, and feels isolated from the rest of his people. This makes him similar to the First Doctor, William Hartnell. David Tennant, the 2nd Doctor of the revival, is hyperactive, silly, and plays the fool to deceive his enemies. This makes him similar to the Second Doctor, Patrick Troughton. Matt Smith, the 3rd Doctor of the revival, is a man of action, and is a sort of nutty professor type. This makes him similar to the Third Doctor, Jon Pertwee. Peter Capaldi, the 4th Doctor of the revival, cuts loose and occasionally acts like a moody teenager with the face of an adult. He also has a deep, booming voice. This makes him similar to the Fourth Doctor, Tom Baker. Jodie Whittaker, the 5th Doctor of the revival, is younger, clumsy, had three companions, and has a streak of bad luck when it comes to her adventures. This makes her similar to the Fifth Doctor, Peter Davidson. What do we know of Jo Martin's Fugitive Doctor? She's prideful. She's involved with the Time Lords. She's prone to violence. Her outfit is loud and garish (I quite like it). Who does that remind you of? Colin Baker, the Sixth Doctor. In fact, Colin Baker has expressed his interest for a woman of color being the Doctor. And the SIXTH decade of Doctor Who is around the corner! 'Course, that last bit's just conjecture. I _really_ want Jo Martin to be the Next Doctor. It rhymes beautifully with the Classic Era.

[@pious83]

I wasn't entirely sure at the time that Fugitive of the Judoon wasn't going to be a bait & switch story. Wherein Jo was the actual 13th Doctor all along and that would have been fantastic. Personally, I think the next Doctor has to be someone new. Unfettered by previous plotlines.

[@annicknijm7428]

Even if Chibnall definitively puts her incarnation in the past, nothing is preventing the future showrunner to have a prequel series or two with Jo Martin before revealing the 14th. You could even have one season with Jo who has to save her future self, then a season with two Doctors. There are ways to break down the formula that would make her run impactful, even if shorter.

[@Nulono]

Out of curiosity, would the same argument apply if Martin _hadn't_ given an excellent performance? If the consensus had been that her performance had been kind of bland and phoned in, would "but she was the first black doctor" be a good reason to bring her on to play the role full-time?

[@nickrowley5579]

I think Jo will eventually be in audio dramas and some of those (especially the 8th Doctor) are fantastic but yeah every time I listen to the 8th Doctor audios I think what a shame they weren't on screen and that regretful observation would be even more intense with Jo who was spectacular. She just has that "Doctor" aura about her. So much so that I initially thought she was Romana (a character that basically did Sylvie decades ago; The Doctor and Romana are so much two sides of the same character in feeling).

[@HBHaga]

Unfortunately, I don't think that Jo Martin will be the next regularly appearing Doctor. Unless something more is done with her in the upcoming season she was, sadly, just a stunt casting for Chibnal's Timeless Child plot line. Unless the next show runner picks that up, I don't think that we'll be seeing Jo Martin as anything beyond a guest appearance. I liked Martin's Doctor, took to her almost immediately, but it just doesn't look good for her in the long run.

[@TheDragonHistorian]

The tokenism argument is the same problem I have with all the POC "Timeless Children" who were shown in the flashbacks of the eponymous episode. Most of them were given a few seconds of screen time at most and I'm pretty sure none of them had a speaking line. They were "diverse" but immediately sacrificed to service the story of the current white Doctor. At the same time, I feel like the next showrunner deserves to tell their own story, including casting their own Doctor.

[@wajidmannan2618]

I would like to see Shearsmith "reprising" his role in the last Whittaker special (like David Bradley did in Twice Upon a Time). She could encounter him working for Gat and the CIA and they could both regenerate at the end. We seamlessly stay with Jo Martin for a series, until she encounters the newly regenerated 14th doctor in the 60th anniversary special and is recaptured by the Time Lords and exiled to Earth. At that point we seamlessly switch focus back to the 14th Doctor. That way Jo Martin could be the next Doctor, without being the 14th Doctor, and be in the role for the 60th anniversary series. I think that would do justice to how well she played the role in her cameo. A bonus would be if we were given Sean Pertwee for the mindwipe scene that we saw (a metaphor of) in the Matrix at the end of Series 12.

[@ColeHrusovsky]

If we don't get the 14th Doctor's 1st series before the 60th, I think a 60th with the Fugitive Doctor as the main Doctor that sort of introduces the 14th Doctor could be cool.

[@johndent8813]

Of course, the one BIG problem that wasn't addressed in the video is this - Does Jo Martin WANT the role? Does she wish to commit to doing three or whatever number of series as the main character rather than just being a Guest Artist in a couple of episodes?

[@nymphrodellsalavin]

I agree with all points

[@NeilCWCampbell]

I disagree Welcome to the internet ;) /Satire

[@Darkwintre]

What if she's a regeneration of the clone doctor that left with Rose the one supposed to be human like Hartnell's dcotor was supposed to be before he regenerated for the first time?

[@carpelibrarium8522]

The thing is, between now and whenever they announce the 14th Doctor, *fans still get the fun of guessing and speculating!* irrespective of whether Jo Martin is cast or not.

[@rosco31100]

Exactly!

[@eclecticdog2k901]

You are absolutely right.

[@owenwildish331]

I had an idea a while ago for a spin-off almost retro yet modernish style mini-series that ties in with the 'Doctor Who Dalek Invasion of Earth' which follows the beginning of the invasion through to the final days before the serial begins, ending with a recreation of the scene where the 1st Doctor's Tardis materializes at the start of the original serial, not sure what the mini-series main title would be but maybe not have 'Daleks' in the main (though Daleks added to the main title after the reveal) and episode title for the first and second episodes, keeping it as a surprise initially as to what this mini-series is and who the invaders are before the Daleks actually show up more brutal than ever and pretty much winning...

[@mjela4516]

Having 2 shows that air every 2 years one after another would be even more polarising - people will feel that Joe Martin seasons "take away" or replace DW seasons, and they'll be right. So having a show you don't like replace the show you do is twice as maddening.

[@purplecelery7380]

I really enjoyed Jo Martin's Doctor, but if they brought her in as the 14th (or later) Doctor, they'd need to explain why she didn't remember the 13th Doctor (as you stated). In my head, I reckon she maybe fits in between the 2nd and 3rd Doctors? (although admittedly that doesn't explain why the 13th Doctor didn't remember her). I agree that maybe rather than a whole spin-off series featuring her Doctor, a few one-off specials would work better. Or bring her back as another 'guest' Doctor in the regular series for a couple of episodes?

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

I still want a side series that just tells stories with past doctors. Preferably not sticking with any one doctor so it's not something that's directly conflicting. Probably setting up for a multidoctor special.

[@wiseguymotionpictures1416]

Here's what I would do to give Jo Martin her well deserved run being the Doctor while also keeping the element of surprise for the next Doctor: Canonize 6B (sort of) and reveal that Jo Martin's incarnation is the only one between Troughton and Pertwee. When Jodie's run ends, hold off on her regeneration for some reason and transition to what another secret incarnation of the Doctor was up to for two seasons because it's important and it's going to be a storyline that gets continued with the 14th Doctor. After War Games, there's some deal to work with the time lords in secret before exile on Earth, yadda yada, the Doctor agrees but she bounces for some reason, that's how she's traveling around again and winds up in a position to meet Jodie in season 12. This plan would inevitably overlap with the 60th anniversary, which if I was the Doctor Who showrunner I'd postpone the actual anniversary special until 2024 or 2025 because of Covid. In that special, Jodie and Jo (and whatever other doctors could/ would be willing to return) would team up, and similar to Twice Upon A Time there are two regenerations in one episode, Martin becomes Pertwee exiled on Earth with no memory of what happened prior to stepping out of the Tardis, Jodie becomes whoever 14 is. That's not what they'll do but that makes the most sense to me.

[@danowen79]

It doesn’t make sense it would be Jo Martin because she has no memory of 13. But neither does it make sense she’s a pre-Hartnell Doctor because she had a police box TARDIS. So let’s forget the whole thing happened 😂

[@anthonymorgan5822]

I would like it if Jo was the 14th Doctor. As you say, we already know she’s suited the role. But also, from a canon point of view, it would mean she wasn’t pre-Hartnell and you wouldn’t have to explain why her TARDIS was already a police box. Side note, her TARDIS design has to be one of my favourite of the modern era. Also, it would be so cool that we had had a multi-Doctor episode seen from the point of view of the younger Doctor!

[@Parker8752]

So, Tom Baker's appearance in the special already shows that the doctor could very easily take on an old face. He specifically talks about "a few old favourites".

[@thew0rdsmyth]

Jo Martin should be the 14th Doctor. She was just incredible in such a short period of time, had amazing screen presence, and commanded attention. There was a spark there that I only saw in Jody when she made her pyramid speech about the lone cyberman. In lieu of making Jo Martin the 14th Doctor, how about a season where the main antagonist to the new Doctor is another Doctor? Play Jo Martin as the primary quasi-antagonist to the 14th Doctor. Don't make her a baddie outright, but give the Doctors a fundamental disagreement about something that puts them at odds. Or make the Doctor's new companion another Doctor and have them argue all season about who's the actual companion as they serve as co-stars.

[@charlottem7758]

Completely agree, I felt this from the start. I'm absolutely certain that this wasn't the plan, but that doesn't mean they can't change plans. The only argument that I can accept against it is that the new showrunner should have their choice of who to cast, no have it forced onto them by Chibnall. But I think Chibnall will do enough in the next season to not make it a viable option, and to be completely blunt, I think it will be looked at as the biggest mistake of his era.

[@yorkshiremackem1433]

I think Jo Martin is a version of the doctor that has one incarnation and when she dies she goes back to being the human known as Ruth. The 13th doctor could save Ruth after she dies as the fugitive doctor and becomes Ruth again, this could be pretty much the same as the 10th Doctor saving Capaldi in fires of Pompey. Afterwards Ruth gets promoted as a tour guide to a bigger city which ends up being Sheffield. The 13th doctor says goodbye to her friends Ryan, Graham, Yaz, Ruth and Dan and afterwards she goes off in her Tardis alone to regenerate and she regenerates into the 14th Doctor which ends up being Jo Martin, the 13th doctor could save Ruth like 10 did in fires of pompey with capaldi. This could be how Jo could be the 14th Doctor.

[@c.eb.1216]

Gemma Arterton could be a good choice too I think. A dark, brooding, dignified and wise doctor who only seems a bit like Mary Poppins because of how she dresses.

[@MorbidGod391]

I get the argument that if she is in a limited series it could be insulting. But honestly it could be considered a compliment. “Jo, we know we told you will only be a minor character but after seeing you on screen… your fabulous. We want to give you a high budget, limited series on HBO Maxx/BBC so the fans can see you as the Doctor.” It’s kind of a half empty or half full situation. You can choose to look at it either way.

[@rosco31100]

Honestly, I'm feeling like Chibnall only had Jo Martin cast so that he could be known as the show runner who had the first female Doctor and the first black female Doctor. If Jo Martin doesn't reappear in what remains of Chibnall's era, then I'll believe my above statement whole heartedly. At the moment I'm still willing to be optimistic, because it really would be an injustice to not have her return as a leading Doctor. Not just because I genuinely enjoyed her performance and think she would be great in the role, but because of the wider political issues. The BBC have been quick to put Martin in all the Doctor who merchandise, standing along side other Doctors in calendars, annuals, etc. My fear is, she's basically a place holder until they cast their "real" first leading black Doctor. After that, Jo Martin will simply be swapped out and forgotten. Although, I acknowledge this is unlikely, as John Hurt still stands among the Doctors even though he only has the one appearance. And I imagine if anyone else had been cast in Jo Martin's role, they to would have been given the same treatment regardless of who they were. But it wouldn't be instantaneous. If they faze her out, it will be gradually and over time, as more black actors take on the role of the Doctor. It may not happen at all, but it's still a fear I have. And all this screams tokenism to me. And it will stink to high heaven if she never returns or is given a proper chance to play the leading Doctor. Originally I was hopeful Chibnall would have her be his 14th Doctor, but then he announced he was leaving. I'd be eternally grateful to whoever the new show runner ends up being, if they put their vision for the Doctor on hold to give Jo Martin the chance she deserves. Even if it was just for one series, it would at least give her something, and would ultimately clean up the mistake Chibnall made. And when I say mistake, I mean him casting the first black Doctor and then not doing anything with her. For the same reason, I won't hold it against the new show runner if they don't have her return. It would be regrettable and unfortunate, but they weren't the ones who created this problem. Chris Chibnall did. I'll be curious to see what Chibnall's remembered for most down the road. The Timeless Child, or his poor handling of the first black Doctor.

[@johnlochness]

My problem with Jodie all along has been that she doesn't have the on-screen gravitas to be the Doctor, Jo has that in bucket loads even though we only saw minutes of her. I so hope Jo Martin is the next Doctor.

[@SyncCryo]

I'm just gonna say it. Chibnall introduced Jo Martin as the first black doctor as a way to boost ratings and interest. She won't get to have her own run, and she probably won't even appear in the show again (maybe S13 but after that no chance). I might be wrong but that's the feeling I have.

[@e.j.coates8145]

I also hope Jo is the next Doctor for the reasons you outlined, plus she was just bloody fab in the role! I think some time ago Vinay Patel said he was working on his own sci-fi show. I'm now hoping that he was actually working on his plan for season 14 and Jo Martin will be his Doctor, given that his story introduced her.

[@kieraniles688]

A problem I find with the idea of Jo Martin coming in as a new doctor, revisiting a previous face, is that Chibnall made me want to see the Fugitive Doctor's story. I want Jo to have a full on story arc as the the version of the Doctor she was first given and did such a good job of. As much as Jo Martin being 14 (and we have good reason to think she'd be great at it) good to see, I think it would still be a shame to throw away the potential of her fugitive doctor role. Ideally, some story is worked out creatively to slot her into the timeline an make her the next Doctor we watch, or (I'd say not so ideally) give her more appearances as a fugitive doctor storyline woven through doctors 14+15, like River Song (a major character really memorably cemented in Doctor Who).

[@WHO_is_on_first]

I would like to see a movie franchise headed by Jo Martin as the doctor

[@WHO_is_on_first]

To clarify, this is if she isnt the 14th. I'd like to see that but if its confirmed that she is from the past she deserves her own thing. A spinoff I agree is lesser but a minimum of 3 theater released movies with maybe her fighting the timelords would be my dream

[@CinemaKnight]

Even if Chibnall had stayed, I think it makes more sense that Jo Martin is a pre-Hartnell Doctor from the way she seems to fit into the Timeless Child narrative (Jodie not remembering her and everything). Otherwise, its a bit odd to have a future Doctor introduced at the same time as the plot about there being a ton of pre-Hartnell incarnations we've never heard of, rather then her being an example of one of those pre-Hartnell incarnations who at some point Chameleon Arch-ed her way to Earth (could very well be the first time The Doctor came to Earth, just as an escape, but the place stuck in their mind for when First Doctor and Susan stole the Tardis).

[@wolf1066]

Yeah. As things stand, if Jo Martin's Doctor is limited only to Chibnall's "Timeless Child" crap, the first black Doctor is forever going to be nothing more than stunt casting on Chibnall's part - and that would seriously suck. Jo Martin was awesome. She *commanded* the scenes she was in. She deserves a longer shot at being the Doctor - both as a brilliant actor and a great fit for the role *and* because the position of first black Doctor deserves better treatment than "well, it was this idea that Chibnall had for a few episodes."

[@Venemofthe888]

Im not opposed to her becoming the doctor we follow but heres the thing would it make sense. Martin's Doctor was introduced hiding away her time lord side in a lighthouse so would it pick up before or after her appearance in Fugitive of the Judoon. I do like to think that if she is the next doctor i think she would do very well in the role. I think with a new showrunner we may not get a answer to the question either at all or immediately. They would have to keep her in mind with the new showrunner. She did overshadow Jodie and tbh if shes the next doctor i wouldnt be upset at all there just might be kinks to work out with her history