The Centennial Light and Edison the Cheat: Citation Needed 2x03

techdif.co.uk - Highbrow and lowbrow collide this week, as a giant brass arse meets Thomas Pynchon. And there's a barnstorming start from Matt as he connects "Livermore, California" with a rather famous bulb.
BONUS MATERIAL - 90 Seconds of Dick Jokes Removed From This Episode: • 90 Seconds of Dick Jok...
THE FULL PLAYLIST: • Citation Needed, from ...
TOM is @tomscott and at tomscott.com
GARY is @garybrannan
MATT is @unnamedculprit and at mattg.co.uk
CHRIS doesn't do this social media nonsense.

[@Dragongaga]

Technically tungsten filament light bulbs are not illegal, they're just banned from sale. You can use, but not sell them anymore, the reason being the 1% efficiency (1% of the energy goes into the light, the other 99% go into heat)

[@RFC-3514]

The efficiency of modern filament bulbs is typically around 2.5% (tungsten) to 3.5% (halogen - which are still sold), which is less than half of a typical commercial LED (5% to 20% efficiency, depending on manufacturing quality and driving circuit).

[@topilinkala1594]

I live in Finland. The time we need lights we need heating so the waste heat is not waste. The time we do not need heating we do not need light. So why ban selling us tungsten filament light bulbs. They are cheaper to make, easier to the environment and last longer than the ones we have now. Just some green bs.

[@DerZocker2000000]

@@topilinkala1594 led lamps should usually last longer than a normal lightbulb

[@SofosProject]

​@@topilinkala1594 A classic example of cultural use case.

[@AdriaanZwemer]

I think that's what the air quotes were for

[@JoeBleasdaleReal]

“We’re commemorating this with a giant brass arse.” That’s exactly how I want my effigy to look.

[@xmlthegreat]

Would that not be just a brass sculpture of your face, which is indistinguishable from your rear end? I jest of course. No offense meant. I saw the opportunity and I took it.

[@HistoriaEtAl]

@@xmlthegreat Canadian?

[@andrewstanley3814]

Am I the only one who noticed that during THIS episode of all episodes, at the 4:45 mark, A light bulb burns out?

[@mitigatekeeps1371]

Holy mother of God, you're right! How did you even notice this? It could be me, but I think you can hear a pop.

[@jamesb6820]

I saw it but noticed more of a click or thud like someone putting down a glass away from the mic

[@flainYT]

ITS A GHOST!!!

[@zinsy23]

I think Chris Joel was looking up when that happened! That's insane!

[@brandonmartin-moore5302]

How did none of them notice?

[@Mousy677]

now that it's been pointed out to me it's pretty obvious that matt was sleep deprived during this recording

[@themoviedealers]

You are continuing in the finest traditions of British comedy by combining highbrow and lowbrow, as Monty Python frequently did. (Jean-Paul Sartre references followed by farting.) Excellent work.

[@SamAronow]

Jean-Paul Fartre

[@CrisisDesired]

@@SamAronow Amazing

[@Azeria]

Livermore, California… formerly known as Nottingham, California. Not quite a Yorkshire fact but a Nottinghamshire fact nonetheless!

[@AgentTasmania]

Tom's from Notts I believe

[@Azeria]

@@AgentTasmania yup, Mansfield

[@IAmSippycup]

I'm surprised four British guys managed to avoid the obvious Morrissey joke about a Light That Never Goes Out.

[@adammullarkey4996]

"I read a book where one of the characters was an immortal lightbulb." 1: Can an inanimate object be immortal? 2: WTF?

[@thelastcube.]

I need that book

[@amayaoke9036]

If it's a character it's probably not inanimate tho

[@mastersoftoday]

as luck would have it, I'm currently reading Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon, this very book, and I am 350 pages in, and the immortal lightbulb character is yet to make an appearance. I have no idea how it could possibly fit in the story

[@Jay_Bee_Beats]

@@mastersoftoday So... Did the lightbulb show up in the story?

[@peterknutsen3070]

mastersoftoday TvTropes has one reference to an “immortal” lightbulb on the main page for the novel. There’s no subpage for Characters. I haven’t searched the other subpages.

[@creakyboards8517]

i remember the Centennial Light was a decently big plot point in one of my favorite pieces of weird internet metafiction, 17776.

[@hw936bzsten]

*hears the words Livermore California* oh Livermore oh yeah that's the lightbulb there that I really should go and look at some time it's only a few minutes away

[@flavoredsnacks9979]

Iampikachu21 Ask someone who lives in or near Ytterby then

[@Near_Void]

@@ragnkja Livermorium, yes there is Theres a laboratory there

[@chrisshipman6253]

Great episode! In terms of switching a bulb on gently, a variac would seem to be the thing (though a digital solution would work too - you could smooth the output if you were worried about noise). Similarly, staff at the National Museum of Computing at Bletchley Park slowly run up the voltage of the supply to their Colossus rebuild every morning to avoid burning out the valves. They can't afford the electricity bill associated with the wartime solution of leaving it switched on all the time.

[@kring1a]

The absolutely brilliant podcast 99% invisible just had an episode about the lightbulb.

[@lawrencecalablaster568]

I just listened to that episode :)

[@rattrap1009]

Points: Chris: 1 Gary: 4 Matt: 2, 1 MB Winner: Gary • Totals: Chris: 37 points 2 Mystery Biscuits 4 Wins Gary: 30 points 5 Mystery Biscuits 3 wins Matt: 31 points 4 Mystery Biscuits 4 Wins SEASON 1 WINNER: Chris by points; Matt by wins; Gary by Mystery Biscuits. Band names / albums so far: Furious Strumpets, SimpleHuman, Wallaby Butler Material.

[@ahuddleofpenguins4842]

Ur crazy

[@Jtngetabettername]

Love how the season winners are all different by different ways of counting

[@thespartan-sangheili3224]

Ok, in the video they mention that bulbs never go out while they're on but I'm currently sitting in my living room at 10:30 PM and 2/3 of the bulbs have just gone out within 20 minutes of each other and it immediately reminded me of this video for some reason.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

The US has a bit of an advantage re: longlived lightbulbs, using 120v instead of 240v means the filament's thicker for a given output.

[@steamcastle]

***** while that may be one thing, most long lasting lightbulbs are just 220v bulb running at 120v. you will not get as much light out of them but they will last for many many times longer. same is the other way around, you can run a 120v bulb at 230v and it will only last for a short amount of time, but you will get many times more light from it. Back when they switch from 220v to 230v many more light bulbs burned out within then following 6 months, then normal.

[@gwenynorisu6883]

So what you're saying is... the secret to a longer lasting bulb is to buy one of a higher rating then put a resistor inline with it?

[@meme__supreme3373]

@@gwenynorisu6883 no that would only change the amps (which might be the problem anyway, but I'm not sure I'm a software engineer, not an electrical engineer, so this isn't my specialty), based on the comment, you could likely get an effect by doing something involving a voltage transformer to step down the voltage, likely with some sort of noise reducing driver circuit such as a constant current driver or constant voltage driver.

[@richardmillhousenixon]

So theoretically, you can get a ton of life out of a bulb if you always use a Variac to turn it off and on

[@entropiCCycles]

1:37 Thanks for the unintentional recommendation, Chris! I've been reading Gravity's Rainbow for a bit now and it's really interesting. Though I will admit that I was confused for a long time trying to search for it because my memory had blended this episode together with some others and I ended up thinking it was written by Robert Heinlein and not by Thomas Pynchon as it actually is.

[@ZebaSzp]

I'm argentinian, and we have Panini stickers! And honestly, I've always wondered about that name. Panini are delicious. I just discovered the show and I'm binge-watching it, it's fantastic, keep up the good job!

[@SlyPearTree]

I kind of remember a project in an old electronic magazine, it was a light switch that slowly automatically dimmed the light on and/or off to make it last longer.

[@rolandgharfine534]

Ipswitch it on and off

[@MaximNightFury]

Can confirm that the light is still going as of 4:07 AM CST, May 30, 2020

[@VisibleReality]

I've had a light bulb that went out while it was on.

[@amyclarke6176]

Alexander Mitchell I thought I had it was a sensor light turned out there was a moth on the sensor so the light was off

[@kiro9291]

there was one in the video itself at 4:45

[@picobyte]

They can use A variac behind the ups but put good surge surpression on that variac,the thing is just A big parallel coil when fully on.

[@Liggliluff]

(2:20) I think I've had one that went out while it was on. Most do go out when they are turned on. I think I also had one that went out when I turned it off (I mean, broke, not that the light went off).

[@CynicatPro]

Hey guys! i want to say thanks for the content. i'm a game developer and these videos are one of the things that help me work. i have a focus problem if i'm not doing several things at once so on behalf of my work i thank you for taking the time to make these and being awesome people! =3

[@Brannersatlarge]

Phsshhaaaw, we're just messing about. Glad you enjoy it!

[@gwenynorisu6883]

That sounds like some kind of ADHD... both positive and interesting that this might be a way to combat it without powerful drugs :-o

[@FirstNameLastName-gh9iw]

I don’t think I’d even notice if I had a bulb that lasted forever. I mean who records which light bulbs you’ve changed

[@ishashka]

I've probably seen this episode 10 times, and only now I realised that the 50Hz noise I get whenever I try to record something on my PC is from the dimmer switch...

[@richardmillhousenixon]

It isn't necessarily from the dimmer switch, as long as you are in proximity with anything electric there will be a 50Hz/60Hz signal just barely audible just as a result of magnetostriction

[@ishashka]

@@richardmillhousenixon I replaced the switch with a normal one (it was annoying anyways because it wouldn't work properly with led lights) and the noise disappeared, so that was it

[@ishashka]

Also, the noise wasn't barely audible, it was really loud

[@techheck3358]

@@ishashkaif it was really loud you’re probably not hearing the 50/60hz signal, but a harmonic of it amplified in a specific device (maybe your dimmer switch). You can use a spectrum analyser app on a phone to check

[@ishashka]

​@@techheck3358it was only audible in the recording, not IRL, and I checked, it was 50Hz. The harmonics were obviously present too, but much less prominent. I have since replaced the dimmer switch with a normal one (it was an old kind that doesn't work with LED bulbs) and the noise is gone

[@MickeyCuervo36]

I like this show! It's rather like QI by way of Wikipedia. Well, minus the klaxons and the suave sophisticate that is Stephen Fry.

[@ianhopping105]

Later series were mostly Stephen talking. I prefer this.

[@bentoth9555]

"Sat near a polo. Near mint." Sorry, Matt. It's an American bulb so it would be sat near a Life Saver. :P

[@TitusX49]

“We’re commemorating this with a giant brass arse” has got to be one of my favorite lines of this series

[@ouaiscestvrai]

Watching this in the midst of a massive power outage in Texas, I wonder about that second-oldest lightbulb 👀

[@ouaiscestvrai]

It's called the Palace Theater Bulb, they had a 112th birthday party "mask-erade" for it in September 2020

[@MrCurlykid1]

Have a Merry Christmas Tom. Thanks for all you do!

[@maciewaciej]

I sure do wonder if anything happens to the Bulb in year 17776

[@abridge2]

I sure do hope nobody fires a football from a mountain in Alaska towards this otherwise indescript fire station in California

[@johnnyboy3949]

Chris Joel is my hero. I’d love to see him do more videos!!!

[@yerinpark7534]

I'm binge-watching these episodes, and finally! It's a topic I knew about before seeing the video!

[@FamusJamus]

Ahh, Woolworths. It's fun to see all the stuff that's being sold on eBay. Pick 'n' Mix bags, advertising posters, order cards from when they went all Argos-like, an employee Christmas letter, receipt rolls, an "R" from a 1970s sign (£14.99, "used"), an "A" from the same sign... a "C" from the exact same sign... an "S"... heh.

[@themoviedealers]

Woolworth's was American originally but the Brits seem to have adopted it as their own. (The UK branch obviously being run by people who live there...)

[@DudokX]

I really like how many new subs you are getting on your channel, good job you deserve it!

[@piprod01]

99 percent invisible did an episode about this light bulb like week ago, it's pretty cool to listen to! :D

[@1_GigaWaffle]

9:20 Is it evil?(c) priceless XD Gets me every time)

[@pamelagarnish8937]

I love your KZbin channel! I enjoy the banter, laughter and how much fun you 4 have together! I have learned a lot of things that I wouldn't of known if I didn't watch your awesome show! Tom Scott, I see insight of the subjects you choose to cover. Not only are we entertained we're also learning in the process. I am from USA and I must admit that I do have some difficulty in understanding your slang. Some things that are said I scratch my head and say, umm what?! Haha Luckily for me the more I listen and watch the more I began to understand. *maybe you could put in subtitles the English word with the definition, etc. Wait, I just got a brilliant idea! Bubble pop-ups! When one of you uses a word that might be different a Bubble could pop up a quick 1 or 2 word definition such as, Loo=bathroom, toilet, #1 or #2! Haha Does that make sense? Either way I'm still going to continue watching , laughing and learning on your KZbin channel! Great job! Pammie

[@spacewarpphotography1667]

Odd, as a little kid in the 1980's, my class took a trip to the Edison Workshop and Museum in Menlo Park, NJ, and I don't remember anyone talking about Edison being a cheat.

[@RadicalEdwardStudios]

Dimmer switches generally don't slowly increase power. They start/stop incredibly rapidly, with the gaps taking up smaller portions of the time as you increase. In fact, some LED bulbs dislike it.

[@keda1981]

Credit to whoever subtitled this just for "IP-switch".

[@tylisirn]

With incandescent lightbulbs planned obsolescence is less a conspiracy and more a practicality. Yes, it's very easy to make a lightbulb that lasts "forever": you just make the filament thicker. That makes the lightbulb run cooler and so last much longer. But also, that makes it less energy efficient (the hotter it is the more light it produces for the amount of energy), it makes it dimmer, and it makes the light it produces much yellower. Would you buy a forever bulb that uses 40W, produces 10W worth of light and looks like the yellow traffic signal?

[@MisterJones351]

Club 301! Finally!!! I seriously want to set up a game of Citation Needed with some friends in my city...

[@karenpost710]

We had panini stickers in the USA... used to collect them in storybook style sticker albums as a kid... you had to get the all the stickers in a set to get the whole story... never did finish a story! 😅

[@elhasmusic]

Any time I’ve seen a bulb go out, it’s been turned on and started flashing.

[@TheTrekkie12]

I have had a lightbulb go out while it was on.

[@darcygardner415]

Copied

[@Falcrist]

That bulb must have a massively thick filament, and put out an even higher ratio of IR than a normal bulb!

[@therese294776]

I once had a lightbulb go out while it was on. I was about seven, doing my homework at the kitchen table, when the lightbulb above me suddenly exploded in a shower of sparks and broken glass.

[@farmertyler8087]

I’ve had light bulbs go out numerous times after being on for hours, not turning on or off, just left on for a few hours.

[@zappawoman5183]

There is a light in an American fire station that gets regular birthday parties.

[@nrtstealth9502]

I saw the Martin & newbys lightbulb in Ipswich. Was a beast of a bulb compared to todays

[@Mergatroid]

Finally an episode where I already know the topic

[@ABaumstumpf]

About the livespan of lightbulbs - Not a conspiracy, but a result of consumer demand. People want lightbulbs that shine brightly. A very thin long wire gives off the most light - and also is the most efficient in doing so. But that also makes it more fragile and susceptible to wear. There always were bulbs rated for way longer than your average bulb, but at the same powerdraw they were a lot dimmer - and you can still get them for special applications. Just think of it that way - you can choose between 2 bulbs. One lasts just 2 years, the other costs twice as much, costs twice as much, but in just 1 year the extra power it needs cost you more than an extra bulb. Which would you take? Making it last shorter would just annoy people, but 1-2 years depending on the sue is what people accepted.

[@JonasDAtlas]

There actually was a conspiracy of sorts, though, it went to court at one point if I don't remember this wrong.

[@nacoran]

I heard a rumor that European bulbs will last virtually forever on American current, but that's because they have a thicker filament. That also though means that it creates more resistance and uses more power. Ideally, you'd balance the energy consumption of creating a new bulb against the expected life time and try to find the most efficient balance to give you the best value.

[@shitmultiverse1404]

I didn't knew Panini was sold internationally, i trought it was just Italian

[@JonasDAtlas]

I think a typical PWM dimmer would actually make it worse and probably kill it - maybe heat it up a bit before turning it on? It's mainly the very low resistance the filament has when it's cold that kills light bulbs, if I recall correctly.

[@sirilandgren]

"You win an album by the new super group consisting of a Japanese performance artist, an avantgarde record producer, an Italian serialist and an Irish pop singer - Ono Eno Nono Bono!"

[@ElectricEvan]

You can gently turn on a lightbulb. A conventional dimmer switch would be more violent than say using a variac (autotransformer).

[@WombatSlug]

We celebrated one million hours of the light bulb back in 2015. It's still burning

[@spidermanmyers]

I can't exactly remember when but I have had a light go out while it was running, it was recently turned on. Turned on and 4 seconds later it bust.

[@Autissima]

I read a great book about lightbulbs once.

[@RFC-3514]

Assuming it's a normal incandescent lightbulb, it would be trivial to power it up slowly. And no, you won't need anything to "digitally manage the amount of current" (you would need something _sort_ of like that for modern LEDs, but not for incandescent bulbs).

[@callumrobertson1081]

its a fire station not a brothel, I need that on a tshirt

[@Juli414]

+Callum Robertson There are places that do custom printing, and I'd go for such a shirt, myself. Maybe the guys would be willing to have a picture of them on it. Proceeds to a charity of their choice? Heck, have different ones, I'd also like one referring to piscine meaning swimming pool in French, not fish. Gary will not be allowed to forget that. All shirts must be red, of course!

[@desia.brimou]

Imagine it though! Merch with such iconic writings as "Don't Piss On The Electric Ray", "We're not street, we're boulevard", maybe even things like "[citation needed]" and "Everybody's Favorite". You can make a business out of this.

[@desia.brimou]

Wait, that sounded better in my head.

[@ellaisplotting]

You deal friends? Nifty. Could I put in an order?

[@bubbledoubletrouble]

If you’ve ever seen the Centennial Light, you’d likely be somewhat disappointed. One of the reasons it has lasted as long as it has is because of how dim it is. There is a trade off between how long you can run an incandescent lightbulb and and how bright it can be. Also, Technology Connections has a video that kinda-sorta debunks the “Light bulbs only last 1,000 hours specifically because of the conspiracy”.

[@jannetorvela7051]

It's a carbon filament bulb. A big problem of carbon filaments was that they have a negative temperature coefficient of resistance, so the hotter they get the more power they produce and the hotter they get. That's why they had to be dim so the heat can radiate out - add just a bit more power and the bulb goes in a blink. Some versions had a ballast resistor with a positive temp coefficient to limit the power, but that made them even less efficient.

[@Gloriapun27]

Love the moulin rouge reference at 4:23

[@RobertBuchanTerrey]

As I rewatch these, and I love em, but just found vote leave advertising to me :(

[@beemer9108]

Ooh a light bulb sold by my family, Chris

[@sphericalcow6014]

5:23 missed opportunity for "how many Americans does it take to switch on a light bulb"

[@IAmTheBestOf1998]

Babymetal! Nice shirt Matt

[@jbran7817]

I love how Matt wears almost exclusively band shirts

[@RaidenGen]

I've had a lightbulb go off while operating continuously. A pencil case was involved though.

[@FarSeenNomic]

I had a light bulb go out while i was using it.

[@pyroslavx7922]

An incandescent light can easily last centuries, if it is run at very low voltage (compared to what voltage it was ment to run), well if it runs at very low glowing filament temperature, the colder the filament is, the longer it will run, but the less efficient it will be. So you can plan a bulb to last a century or two, but it will only produce 10% or 3% of (visible) light at the same power consumption (its efficiency will be few percent or less of regular "1000-hour" incandescent bulb). It actually makes a lot of sense to slowly ramp up the voltage (you want to controll VOLTAGE, NOT CURRENT, light bulbs do not like to be current controlled;-), if it happens that power supply fails. Dimmers are noisy, but you can use ultra stable (not-noisy) laboratory power supply to power it, which can be programmed to do automatic soft start in case of input failure...

[@HANSBIMMER]

I didn't know people whom were capable of completing Gravity's Rainbow existed.

[@promiscuous675]

Thank you...

[@topilinkala1594]

Did you know that an eletric motor does not wear down? The bearings on it's axel do wear down and so do the sliding coupling used in them. But changing those from time to time makes a electric motor run indefinitely. The oldest I know is lift motor in Budapest metro station. It's nowadays in a glass box so everyone can see it. It was wound in late 1800.

[@kiwigaming09]

Does it still work?

[@topilinkala1594]

@@kiwigaming09 Yes it does.

[@lafcursiax]

No apology necessary-- I'm American and I remember having a Panini sticker book as a kid. It was something to do with natural history rather than footballers, though.

[@Jasonwolf1495]

There are now replicas of this lightbulb for sale.

[@sirjid]

I'm from Livermore! I have seen this light!

[@Liggliluff]

(6:10) Why did you say "illegal" that way? It's illegal to sell, not to use. You are free to use them if you want.

[@mcp12300]

My lightbulbs always go out when I'm using it

[@aDifferentJT]

It's not really true that it's a conspiracy to not produce longer lasting lightbulbs, it's actually that lightbulbs that last longer are less efficient, so there was a group enforcing the lifetime limit but it was to make sure that efficiency and amount of light output was maintained for the benefit of consumers, not to improve corporate profits.

[@route2070]

I work at a us retail store, and my store now sells Penini stickers.

[@hats1642]

Sir! The uninterruptible power source has been interrupted!

[@inthegrass11]

The Morrissey Special

[@matttanner462]

Actually, Panini makes cards for all sorts of sports, so we in north america know what it is

[@notthatcreativewithnames]

Someone who did the subtitles misspelt Ipswich as Ipswitch. Is that just a typo or an intentional pun?

[@KielEire]

I'm from Livermore!:)

[@elave16]

Just turn the light bulb on with a variable transformer.... The physical analog kind.... You have almost no noise.. Only the transition from every turn of the coil

[@JonatasAdoM]

And they say that fluerescent lights last more than conventional incandescent bulbs..

[@route2070]

My store that I work at sold Panini stickers of world cup players.

[@sionide]

he reads books you know...

[@quinndavis4575]

I'm to this day confused by what kind of noise Matt meant and why that would be bad

[@iamkapilkalra]

When you realise Derrick from veritasium probably got the video idea from here.

[@anthonyb4479]

Y’all either I’m getting senile or I MISSED A CITATION NEEDED WHRN I DISCOVERED IT IN 2018 AND BINGE WATCHED THE WHOLE SERIES WTF

[@anthonyb4479]

Oh wait nvm I remember this one now

[@anthonyb4479]

Still gonna watch it

[@qwertyTRiG]

@@anthonyb4479 Still watching is always a good plan with Citation Needed.

[@garybarnes4169]

I thought the end pun was going to be a Phil and Gary Neville Breville.

[@markonfried]

'Ipswitch' in the closed captioning

[@Col_Crunch]

I actually had a light bulb die while it was on yesterday.

[@taitaisanchez]

I'm an American and I won't hold the bad football jokes against you. Given how many bad American sports jokes everyone else has to deal with... I *think* we can manage :)

[@eamonahern7495]

Chuckin' boxes at folk