The Charles Manson Murders: What Really Happened At Cielo Dr?

[@joelsmith5461]

I've always thought that some modern forensic experts should re-examine all the forensic evidence from this case...because all the blood in various places don't match the original narrative of how the murders happened

[@sunsioux444]

of course it doesn’t match - these are all signs asking us if we are awake to the bullsh*t and the script.

[@THEzav14]

Great explanation of the sequence of events! The ‘drug burn’ theory is really the only thing that makes sense

[@BG-qk9pp]

Our great lord and master has returned! What a glorious day.

[@Marko777ify]

This world, full of evil and violence, is hell itself. Don't you think? - Shishio Makoto

[@daniafterdark]

Great video! You packed a lot of information in. I hope you do more about the case. 😊

[@LordOsiron]

Thanks Dani! You guys do a great job too! I really enjoy the chemistry you 3 have together.

[@christossarantos9606]

Did Tom O'neil write in his book about who dirtied your socks?

[@nicolelillis2077]

Yeah, those socks belong in a CSI grime scene....😂

[@billneigh9576]

Yes, this would explain why Sharon Tate’s blood was found on the front porch. I’ve seen just about every documentary about this horrific crime. I’ve also read Halter Skelter. I never knew a large amount of Sebring’s blood was found on the front porch. Your take on this is very plausible.👍👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@OneWayJesus777-x2n]

Their bodies were drugged around they were outside but killed kat outside but Sharon was dragged inside l

[@sunsioux444]

psyop! They were all actors, and involved with military. Research Miles Mathis paper on it

[@rickacton7540]

glad youre back, i enjoyed your past vids, hope youre doing well

[@melissamorris8046]

Thanks for the upload. I learned a few things I never knew about this case. Why wouldn't Cass call the police when she got back home or wherever she went to?

[@LordOsiron]

Potential incrimination of herself. She probably assumed it was the Canadian Drug dealers getting revenge on Frykowski for drugging and anally raping one of them at a party a few weeks prior.

[@melissamorris8046]

@@LordOsiron I need to read Chaos I guess. The only reason I could think of is she didn't want no trouble with people who would do something like that.

[@Ryan-Kako]

@@melissamorris8046 supposedly all of Hollywood knew what happened at cielo. Hollywood is a bunch of pedos and weirdos no one said anything to try and distance themselves from those involved

[@blayneaugust]

Fascinating, to say the least - puts this case in a whole new light for me. Thank you!

[@sunsioux444]

Best to read the person that did the ultimate research on this military theater, Miles Mathis

[@tinaschultz9371]

The Tex Watson murders.

[@MeeMee-gz5vp]

I also find it interesting how Susan Atkins said she threw the towel she used to write PIG on the door on Sebring’s head, but when you look closely at Sebring’s neck, part of the towel is under the rope. Doesn’t make sense.

[@sunsioux444]

it doesn’t make sense because it is not meant to,TPTB are asking us if we are awake because it was just a big hollywood movie

[@lenwelch2195]

@@sunsioux444these peo0le died that night and it’s such a disservice to victims to suggest it was staged.

[@sunsioux444]

@@lenwelch2195 that is what crisis actors and agents say all the time.

[@lisaannyoung1473]

Interesting take on how the Tate crime occurred. Forsenics has changed a lot from 1969. The police didn’t protect the scene well and likely transferred blood all over the house and to the porch. Also, supposedly Tate had rope burns around her neck, in a noose pattern, and so if true she was hung prior to her death. The screen on the window was cut, which they wouldn’t have needed to do if Jay had opened the door. Who knows. It was definitely brutal.

[@sunsioux444]

yes a brutal hollywood movie designed to traumatize us

[@jpinnacle]

Cool video, thanks for posting. Glad to see you mentioned both the type B blood on the porch and the damaged fence-- two pieces of evidence that weren't discussed in the official narrative surrounding the case. I was wondering if you had any theories regarding the knife that was found in the seat cushion, supposedly with no blood evidence on it. Thanks.

[@LordOsiron]

Thanks! The knife in the couch could have been a plant to confuse the cops? It could have just been dropped by one of the girls? There's no way to tell. The only thing that matters is it wasn't used to create any of the wounds, so it's basically irrelevant. The Tooth Fairy could have put it there for all that it really matters. p.s. The blood on the porch was O- Both Sharon and Jay had 0- blood. Frykowski and Folger had B blood.

[@jpinnacle]

@@LordOsiron Thanks, I always get their blood types mixed up for some reason.

[@iuliannicola5715]

Susan Atkins said that IT was her knife that she lost..

[@getoffenit7827]

Steven Parent and William Garretson probably knew what happened on the front porch...i dont think Parent was the first one killed. Im speculating that Parent and Garretson were in the guesthouse and heard the screaming and went outside to see what was happening...Garretson runs back inside and locks the door..Parent runs for his car but gets intercepted by Linda Kasabian and Tex Watson....Kasabian said Parents words were 'I wont tell anyone'....what did he see?....according to the official story Parent was leaving and the Manson crew caught him at the gate..no murders had happened yet...so why would Parent say...i wont tell anyone...tell anyone what?

[@beedifrnt]

Perhaps Parent had seen them crawling over the fence instead of walking through the gate...maybe thinking they were there to rob the occupants? He was aware all one had to do was push a button to enter the property. I also believe that is why the victims inside the home were so cooperative at first - perhaps thinking it was just going to be a robbery and nobody would be harmed. What ended up happening to them was unheard of in that area at that time.

[@arielbonzai462]

It’s possible that parent was casing the joint as he was a known their. Notably his juvie shrink saw him as a sadistic anti social type. I doubt that Garretson was in on that. He clearly was autistic, probably Asperger’s given how he behaved in his later years. If it isn’t addressed that condition takes on symptoms of schizophrenia. He’s interviewed on. TLB radio. He admits to hearing the murders and blasting music so he wouldn’t hear this. Earlier in the evening he went to get some beer and a tv dinner. He says he was picked up by a van full of hippies who warned him not to go back to the Cielo house. He also mentions someone named Pat who lived with him awhile . She was with some others who were stealing wine from the big house. He kicked them out. He took his caretaker responsibilities seriously. He saw all the folks at the big house and assumed having people there was okay. You have to hear him speak to understand what I’m saying.

[@getoffenit7827]

@@arielbonzai462 He admitted to hearing the murders happening?? Wow i never heard that in any documentary,I will give it a listen I am certain he was not completely unaware of anything whatsoever He had to have heard something or saw something.

[@arielbonzai462]

@@getoffenit7827 he also says he heard popping and thought Parent. set off fire crackers. When he’s taking on TLB Radio you get the feeling he was annoyed with Parent. He showed up pretty late. BG is hung over and the guy kept asking about the fancy women living in the big. House ITT seems like he took the job seriously Rudy spoke of this kid being trustworthy and reliable. Apparently he promised BG more jobs looking after property for rich people. He liked the arrangement Who wouldn’t? He looked after dogs and watered the lawn ; thus pool house was rent free and he got 30 bucks a week and a ticket home plus possible pool boy jobs. Of course, LA didn’t suit him after the murders. He talks about his survivor guilt. I recommend the interview and the show. They’ve been around a long time. True Crime and Moonshine is also good

[@arielbonzai462]

@@getoffenit7827 he also said the screaming sounded like people chasing each other around the pool.

[@Linda-pw8gx]

Hello mi’ lord, the Paulcast sent me here

[@LordOsiron]

Hey Linda. Good to see you here. I always see you on the show chat.

[@pcuser2059]

Sharon was featured in " Fate ' Magazine for having a dream predicting the murders, but she did not know what the dream/vision meant at the time..

[@onyx2k206]

I was doing some research on Charles Mansion, I think that he had some ridiculous followers but I don’t think Charles Manson was necessarily behind the murders.

[@irishgirlsaoirse5729]

I looked at the crime sence photos unfortunately but apart from feeling disgusted one photo of the stunning sharon was her position her arm lying gently above her head it just didn't add up

[@sevenn7pure]

Wow this is fascinating. Guess I have an audiobook to listen to soon.

[@jojojo6147]

If the killing started at the front door then why did Tex cut the window screen to get in?

[@LordOsiron]

That's assuming that really happened. That could have been done when the glasses were planted to confuse the scene? One thing we do know for certain is that their blood was on the porch in mass amounts, and the "official story" doesn't adequately account for that.

[@jojojo6147]

@@LordOsiron The cut screen is true, Tex said that's how he got in and let the girls in. I am not sure about the blood on the front porch and why it was not brought up in the "official story." Interesting vlog though, thanks.

[@jojojo6147]

@@Blork1999 Just like the OJ circus.

[@beedifrnt]

@@Blork1999 Yes....especially mishandled the blood evidence. The defense lawyers crucified the so called blood expert when he was on the stand during the trails. He came off as being incredibly incompetent, to say the least. That's why I tend to doubt that much (if any) blood from Tate or Sebring was found on the porch unless one or more of the killers tracked it there from the living room. One small detail is the split screen was in the dining room where Tex entered, not the kitchen.

[@Ryan-Kako]

I agree with your theory but why would the killers lie about how they entered the house and where and when people were killed. What benefit is there to lie. Do you have any thoughts on this?

[@LordOsiron]

One reason could be that they wanted the attack to appear random and unexpected. They wanted it to seem more terrifying like it could happen to you at any time.

[@lyndareed563]

I never understood why the killers didn’t tell exactly how Sharon snd the others were killed ? Telling the truth was not going to change the killers outcome they still would have went to prison and should have !

[@irenebrewer5726]

lynda reed they absolutely did explain how the victims were killed. where have you been?

[@lyndareed563]

@@irenebrewer5726 I meant they only speculate some things why was Sharon blood at the door did she try to run !? We only know they were stabbed shot and hanged but lots of unanswered questions as to how all of it actually occurred !

[@irenebrewer5726]

@@lyndareed563 this post is full of nothing but nonsensical 'speculation,' supposition, and surmising, without concrete evidence to support any of it. why would the mad manson killers lie about what occurred, pray tell? they all have basically told the some story for decades. only susan atkins has changed her version and claims tex watson and he has backed her revised story. this post is interesting but i certainly don't take it seriously.

[@lenwelch2195]

@@irenebrewer5726not in the sequence, parent wasn’t killed first. The killers didn’t want the world to know it was a drug burn and knew frykowski and Sebring. Kasabian and Watson knew frykowsi bought MDA from frykowski. What happened is that Watson came to front door , frykowsi knowing warson argued with Sharon coming to the front door. Watson showing he was serious slicedsharon at door then Sebring try to def3nd her and Watson stabbed him , falling in bushes lagging on Jo’s side with Sharon running back in house with Atkins sitting on couch .Sharon dripping blood on couch cushions Watson shot Sebring while on the ground by front porch. Parent was leaving saw this and ran to the his car he backed up frantically into 5he fence trying to get away. Kasabian acting ascwatch us3d her pocket knife keeping parent from hitting fence gate slicing his watch off delaying parent watch cut found in back seat then Watson caught up shot parent after he said “ I won’t tell anyone” why would he say that if he met watsonnas he just came over the gate. Then Watson returned to 5he house killed frykowsi and Abigail initially stabbed in living room then ran out the back door . Either they got some of the drugs the Canadian drug dealers drug drop off. Sebring was carried in very lit5le blood was found under Sebring meaning he bled out by front porch. The rope was placed after she died. I believe Manson returned to steal Sharon’s stereo that he tried to fence. Garretson hidoutbubtrails behind the guesthouse. He was high that night listening to music is what he claimed. The police dragged him showingbhimm5he bodies.I think Watson believed parent was the guesthouse tenant so he believed krenwinkle when she said she went to guesthouse and saw no one, Sharon was stabbed to death when she was sitting on couch pleading for her life. The amount of blood where Sharon was found definitely died there slumpedvtofloor as Atkins held her arms and definitely stabbed her in back Watson stabbed her in chest 16 times, then Watson at 1:30 used a water hose to wash off th3 blood just one house away by the block from Sebrings house.they went there to steal jays drugs , whether they got that or not is debatable. Because owner of the house where they used the hose chased them trying to take the keys from their car but couldn’t. Tate and LaBianca house were under drugdealing surveylance in murder trial the motive couldn’t come out during a current investigation and the murders made the fbi look stupid under their watch with whitsonpossibly an informant or private eye hired by Folgers father. Abigail was to fly out next morning for rehab and leave leech frykowsi . The rope burn on Sharon’s neck was to keep Sharon from leaving living room. They didn’t hang her since her hyoid bone was not broken which would’ve happened if hung completely with body weight suspended . The towel Atkins used to use Sharon’s blood to write pig , she threw into the living room. Manson returned to get rid of prints to take drugs and stereo to fence. , placed the towel over Sebrings head. When the girls saw the pics of victims in court didn’t remember the bodies staged that way.Sharon was supposed to stay at Sheila wells that night upset with Roman’s friend frykowsi using her home to see MDA to all kinds of people showing up at the house at all hours. The murder was a result of a Watson N on speed. Frykowski did Al this wild porn and drugs while Sharon and Roman were away,. They signed lease in Jan 69 and both left in March for movies. Sharon returned July 20 just couple of weeks before the murders. Sharon was collateral damage. Sandra good told tates that they thought Sharon wasn’t supposed to be there. Restaurant the Canadian drug dealer dropped drugs off earlier in the night and was supposed to return with more. Cass went to house to get the winds drugs and stumbled over the bodies bodies screamed and then😂😂😂 told others about themurders and McQueen went to Sebrings house before cops got there to remove any drugs in his house.

[@arielbonzai462]

I suspect the Bug imposed his will on them using a script. He memorized his part for court and. Medua. He says the same thing all the time. So does Tex Sadie etc. people have unique linguistic quirks . They are sealing verbatim for decades. Bobby is the only one who doesn’t babble about Helter Skelter. Look at videos and their writing efforts abd you’ll see that the killers are talk too much like the bug and each other. By the way that’s a kind of brainwashing. Notably, the story changes a little where it counts. Pat for example is in a parole hearing and they say she went back to bring the people in bedrooms out. Everyone else has said it was Sadie, but I dint think it ever went down like that at all.

[@Ryan-Kako]

Garretson says he used the back path many times to get to sunset strip so it definitely exists

[@SammyNeedsAnAlibi]

Good vid but you forget to mention that the first murder was of Gary Hinman and the last murder was of Shorty Shea. They were the beginning and the end of Charlie's rage at Tex for the bad drug deal he did, and his paranoia that the Black Panther's were after him.

[@user-wu8jd5qm9o]

Hey Lord Osiron, how can we connect or get in touch ?

[@LordOsiron]

You can send me an email at [e-mail]

[@jameswatson5370]

Enjoyed your video. Good break down and theories on the murder timeline and about Cass and Whitson. One small detail that has to be accounted for: the broken piece of gun handle. If Jay was killed and or was dying on the front porch, then it must have been Voytek who received at least one blow from the gun butt on his body INSIDE the house since thats where the broken piece of gun was found. He may have then ran out the door to be ultimatly killed on the lawn. I hope you do a similar video on the La Bianca's too.

[@LordOsiron]

Yeah, the confrontation or fight between Tex and Voytek could have happened in the living room. Frykowski was a scrapper willing to fight, but Tex was 6' 3" and a star athlete in high school, one of those sports being Football, so would be no stranger to physicality and hitting, and he more than likely got the better of Frykowski causing him to run. He also may have been stabbed by one of the girls while fighting Tex? So the idea is, that he got beat up first, then shot and stabbed after he ran, realizing he was losing the fight. Then Tex already being hopped up on meth unloaded on him with the knife after catching him.

[@user-ey4rc5tu4t]

I don’t understand why I should care what you think.

[@pressure609]

What do you think about Rob zombies documentary about Manson?

[@LordOsiron]

It was good! I liked it. It covers a lot of the alternative angles.

[@bodhimantra7688]

I watched it after reading this and it was p good, ty for the recommend

[@violetskye6863]

This scenario makes more sense than the helter skelter version . I don’t remember where I heard this, but the cops found home porno films which included other top Hollywood types in the loft area.

[@tonywoods3149]

I read the same thing...and that actor Steve McQueen was in one or a few..and went back to the house to try and retrieve the tape or tapes

[@arielbonzai462]

That was in The Family and Tom Os book. It seems they filmed orgies and set Sharon up to make porn for collectors Hefner hooked them up with because Polanski didn’t want to be under the studios thumb. Bob Evans told him to produce them himself and he got money from Folger and selling drugs (which were in those trunks until the cops confiscated them en route).. those drugs being gone could’ve been a catalyst for the crime but I suspect it was a hit gone wild because the pole cat and Sebring ass raped Billy Doyle a few days before. They filmed it and it’s not unlikely Tex knew them . I think the LaBianca were set up by their daughter Susan La bethel who knew Tex . When she went to the prison and parole hearings to ask them to free Tex it felt like extortion .

[@beachbong853]

If bleeding bodies were dragged from the front porch there would have been evidence of that. There wasn't because it didn't happen. The murderers told how the murders took place.

[@LordOsiron]

You obviously didn't watch the video or grasp what I said, so I'm not going to waste my efforts re-explaining it to you. But, the "Murderers " don't explain the two massive puddles of blood on the front porch. Puddles of blood that belong to Sharon Tate, and Jay Sebring, who according to the "murderers" never left the living room.

[@MommieDearest67]

This makes no sense. Tex cut screen to enter the house. You are saying Sebring and Tate came out to investigate on the front porch. Did Sebring and Tate cut the screen to come out to the porch? Of course not. Your story makes no sense and is illogical.

[@LordOsiron]

You're basing your point on one tiny aspect of the crime scene?! What's harder to explain, a cut screen or two large puddles of blood typed to the victims specifically? Its also been reported that people went back to the scene after the murders in an effort to clean up the scene, and confuse the scene and make it harder to solve. i.e. there was a pair of glasses on the floor that didn't belong to anyone in the house. Tampering with a screen could have been done by anyone at any time, specific blood puddles, not so much! I think you have to reevaluate what "Logic" means!

[@arielbonzai462]

I believe there was no cut in the screen but it could’ve been been down as the guy was painting that day. They may have just walked in, which this theory makes beside the point. It seems much more viable. It stands to reason they’d be nervous too after burning people and doing blow like only trap stars can.

[@nancyarensdorf1503]

I do believe this house on Cielo had a bad reputation, but I think a lot happened when Melcher and Co lived there. And it continued with Frykowski and Sebring. Sharon just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[@dreams1319]

Dude your speculating too much with out evidence it’s just hearsay

[@LordOsiron]

There's plenty of evidence. Every speculation is backed by evidence. The puddles of blood, the angles of attack etc. Name one speculation I talk about here that isn't backed by some form of evidence. One thing is for certain, the official story IS NOT supported by the evidence.

[@arielbonzai462]

You’re negating too much. Maybe you’re not familiar enough with the case to interject opinions just yet.

[@jeffgrayson7639]

Im sorry but your way out in left field. I know there are alternative theories of the sequence of the murders but you're way out there. Although there was a mixture of Sharons , Jays , and Voyteks blood on the porch the way it was collected its wrong to assume the large puddle of blood belong to Jay.

[@christossarantos9606]

Never listen to a guy in dirty socks! Words to live by my friend.

[@christossarantos9606]

Can we all chip in and get this guy a new pair of socks?

[@nancyarensdorf1503]

I think the socks are tan, not dirty.

[@stephenclayton5129]

I think you should credit Nikolas Schreck more than Tom O'Neill

[@robinowens420]

If there was two fingerprints left at the Cielo scene. How long do you think it would have taken the police to match them up with the two people text and and the girl. In 1969 how long would that have taken

[@LordOsiron]

There was also a bloody footprint of Susan Atkins's foot. She was so VD ridden that she had an infection on her foot, and couldn't wear shoes. You can find a picture of it on Cielo Dr . com. The case was officially broken in late November 69, when Atkins told a cellmate that she killed Sharon Tate, and that cellmate told officials, which led to them being arrested. Susan was already in jail for her connection to the Hinman murder that catalyzed the events of these murders. But again, with the corruption level of the cops, who knows what they really knew and when? There was a huge raid on Spahn Ranch shortly after the murders, which was officially targeting stolen vehicle claims. But they all walked when they couldn't link any of the cars to specific people. They may have also been looking for leads about which of them killed who and when? But officially in the beginning they had no idea who killed them for months. The first suspects were the Canadian Drug dealers, that would have had good reason to kill them. but they were cleared.

[@bobbydickinson7901]

@@LordOsiron Yes, I heard most of those girls had the clap!

[@trendywipp3715]

@@LordOsiron They all walked after the raid at Sphan's ranch because the date on the warrant was incorrect. Once released, they all bailed to the desert or their home states.

[@arielbonzai462]

One was Tex’s but a cop wrecked it. I think Sadie left one too. She claimed to use her mind to obscure. They had her bare foot steps on blood.

[@arielbonzai462]

As far as blood evidence goes, they knew type. Folger and the polecat were O and Sharon.and Sebring had two different A I think. That’s how you know it was them.

[@forensicbadassprofiling]

Wats up bro. Cool 2 c u. I'd prefer your tarot or magick cube vids, but the psychopathy of human behavior is pretty fascinating too. As u know, I study the criminal mind, so I welcome ur views on this matter considering I consider you a brilliant badass. Wondering... Have u looked at anyones natal n death chart whos involved in this? Curious....

[@LordOsiron]

No. That's not my thing. But I'm sure people have.

[@seanahowe4755]

Very interesting. Just wondering why the killers all stick to a similar story. If it happened like this, why not say?

[@LordOsiron]

From what I've heard the stories have changed quite a bit. But as far as incentive? It's tough to say, a lot of shady activity took place throughout the whole thing, but especially in the beginning. Who knows when the con really began? But it wouldn't be too hard to get convicted cons to do what you want. Once the Convictions are in the books, then parole depends on sticking to the story as they want it to be. As well as book deals. Charlie became the Scapegoat, and the Lightning Rod, and it was easy to deflect all the blame to him. Possibly in exchange for prison privilege. Tex fathered 3 kids while in Prison, and Charlie couldn't have a guitar. That's definitely a good question though!

[@seanahowe4755]

@@LordOsiron I'm wondering if maybe Jay was leaving the house as it was late and caught Tex cutting the screen in the window. That's when him and Sharon first got attacked. It's horrifying. Would love you to do a chat on the LaBiancas.

[@dianebays5484]

What aboyt the theory about manson thinking terry melcher still lived there?

[@Ryan-Kako]

One thing, of many. That never made sense to me is how long it took lapd to track it back to the ranch. Rudolph weber got the license plate number from the car tex was driving. I believe He testified that he notified police about the encounter he had with the killers. A simple trace would have led the police directly to spahn because the owner of the car stayed at spahn not a family member but I think.he was an employee. Do you know when rudolph weber reported his encounter to the police?

[@LordOsiron]

I'm pretty sure the car used was Linda Kasabian's car? (I don't really think about this case much anymore, so the smaller details are drifting away) But if it was, she wasn't there very long before the murders, and the car would have had a different registered address. Maybe they did know sooner, but were crafting a case that would keep Hollywood looking cleaner? Also, the ranch was more like a transient home and nothing may have been registered there?! But that's just speculation too. Like I said I don't think about this case much anymore. When you realize it was just a bunch of Boomers being shitheads the case loses its charm pretty fast.

[@Ryan-Kako]

@@LordOsiron I just looked it up the car belonged to Johnny Schwartz he was a ranch hand at spahn. Scott michaels from dearly departed tours has the car on display at his store

[@arielbonzai462]

He didn’t go to the police 👮 until they caught the family. He was also unbanked to get all the plates numbers.

[@arielbonzai462]

@@Ryan-Kakohe was selling it not so long ago. It was a yellow mercury, I think . Early 60s model. Not that old but a beater

[@bradepps7004]

And your opinion since you seen the know a lot about this situation would there have been anyway possible for any of them to escape and get help

[@mojojojojuniper6122]

I've been down a deep hole on this family and murders. Interesting. The bodies slayed are horrific

[@LordOsiron]

It's amazing how popular it still is. If you're still into it, there's a great channel called The Paulcast: Manson Saga Discussion Panel, that does live streams a couple times a week talking about the case.

[@nonyabiz550]

Yeah, an hour long show with 5 minutes of substance and then idee0tic bullsh_t for the rest. Finding any real info is needle in a haystack

[@craigmignone2863]

Wish I knew what Kasabian was up to all the while I've always felt Bugliosi made up Atkins's story then switched it to the so-called gentle little hippy.......

[@LordOsiron]

That's exactly what happened. Many people think the idea to hit that house was Kasabians. She was involved with drug dealing on a fairly high level before she ever landed in California, and Tex was already more than comfortable robbing other drug dealers. She was arrested in Massachusetts for dealing LSD. The very beginning of this ordeal began with the drug robbery of Bernard (Lottsapoppa) Crowe by Tex.

[@sdrh521]

I read that Charles Manson and someone else came to the house after the murders. They moved the bodies, wiped down any prints that may have been left and left a pair of glasses by the blue trunks. I don’t know if this is true but I did read it. I’ve been trying to find the link where I read this. Let me add to this too. I almost forgot this part. I also read that Sharon wasn’t dead and Manson killed her after he moved her.

[@LordOsiron]

That was speculated. I don't think they moved the bodies, but it is likely that they went back to confuse the scene. I think Nikolas Schreck talks about that in his book (Which I ordered and haven't gotten yet!)

[@bodhimantra7688]

fascinating recount of the evidence thanks bro. If you like this kind of stuff check out a book called The Mammoth Book Of True Crime.

[@spirg]

But this narrative goes totally against what Atkins had said…. Why would she lie ?

[@LordOsiron]

Why would she lie? That's all she ever did! Remember, she was supposed to be the star witness before Kasabian.

[@jojojo6147]

Lord Osiron, how do you think Bugliosi handled the case?

[@LordOsiron]

In the Manson Community Bugliosi and the Helter Skelter narrative is the first domino to fall. At least in the post-2019 Tom O'Neill world. Tom and his book CHAOS is the place to go for a breakdown of why Bugliosi has been all but discredited. If you take a truth and twist it enough, it becomes a lie, and that is Helter Skelter in a nutshell.

[@jojojo6147]

@@LordOsiron Yes, it did seem like it was personal to Bugliosi.

[@arielbonzai462]

If the murders were scheduled to go down on Thursday that would exonerate Charlie because he was in Big Sur. It makes sense to. I think Tex told him the plan and suggested he send the other girls to help out and Charlie said it’s a bad idea, but okay. Sadie wanted Bobby free because he would implicate her in Gary hinmans murder. Pat was violent as she killed an elderly artist with some other folks a couple years before. He died after an attack so cops couldn’t nail her for it. She notoriously did any job including clean up horse shit. She wanted to save the group Linda May have been raped by the pole cat and they were selling bad XTC from Cielo which Tex and Linda may have purchased a large amount of using the Mooney or part of it that she stole from Charles Melton and Bob Kasabian.

[@jrc96]

you still on the not busting nuts grind?

[@LordOsiron]

Yes.

[@sevenn7pure]

Is there a health benefit to doing that? I dunno, if I don't release it ends up releasing itself through those good kindsa dreams 🤷🏾‍♂️. Never fails.

[@christossarantos9606]

I think Lord Osiron could use a few bucks for some new socks. Lord start a Go Fund Me. Or at least wash those socks. Everything ok Osiron?

[@mainman127]

R.I.P.

[@BuddhiYoga7]

fascinating, thanks. I had heard a different take involving, you know, something with the baby, but who knows what anyone says. But Polanski did direct Rosemary's Baby, was into young girls, although he's old school European. You can search images of Kate Middleton's early baby appearances wearing the same red and white outfit as Mia Farrow's in the movie, Sinatra's wife, Sebring's client. I wonder if Sebring is code for bring some Coke. He got Bruce Lee into Hollywood, so I wonder if Lee was into that hard stuff. I know he took other stuff, right, Equagesic, weed, etc. Man, these connections are endless. Also, interesting this happened on Lion's Gate, 8/8. And why didn't anyone hear these gunshots if they heard a scream? So yeah, things can't be said explicitly here, but like Leonard Cohen says, Everybody Knows. And no one knows also. Everything in life is in code and layers. How did Cass Elliott really die? Marion Barber heat stroke in his apartment? Bob Saget tweets, Hank Aaron, Marvin Hagler, Taylor Hawkins, endless...

[@nonyabiz550]

That date was not a coincidence, likely

[@Ryan-Kako]

I think there's evidence to support the theory that steven was last to die

[@beedifrnt]

The gun was broken and not usable after Tex beat Frykowski over the head with it. Pieces of gun grip were in the living room. Parent was shot 4 times. Ballistics proved that Frykowski, Sebring, and Parent were all shot by the same gun. By the time the killers were leaving, the gun was not an option to use to kill Parent.

[@Ryan-Kako]

@@beedifrnt i read that they used the gun to fire test shots. So they said the broken grip didn't render the gun in operational. Idk he probably was shot 1st but steven backing over the curb and hitting the fence is a little odd. Maybe he saw frykowski being murder then tried to get out of there. Also didn't they say that Jay was shot 1st then beat over the head with the gun causing the handle to break. After killing Jay he shot frykowski so I'm assuming the gun was still operational. Unless he shot Jay then went back at some point and beat Jay over the head.

[@edcrowley3666]

The Watson murderers.

[@minelliradney9132]

That was evil to release that woman from prison!! The one released in 2023. Dag ! Why would they think this 72 years old woman is better? I see a killer!!!

[@WTW-bs7sy]

When you look at the photo of Steven Parent look at his feet. He isn’t even sat in the driver’s seat properly. To me, he looks like he’s been put in there (or else he was trying to get out but his feet don’t really look in the positions you would expect for someone getting out of a car). The other odd thing is, I’m aware that the stories told by the convicted was (as you said) that they shot him before the murders but (and the only explanation could be that they were off their heads on drugs) why make all that noise shooting him. They could have just let him pass them. The way they explain it he hadn’t even seen them. But even if you had to take action why shoot repeatedly??? You should read up on Steven Parent.

[@WTW-bs7sy]

6:13 Stabbed in the hand. Sounds like it could have been the sort of injury you might get as a perpetrator. And being shot multiple times… Sounds like what you might do to an assailant.

[@Haxor_machine]

HEY

[@MrPatrickLong]

And stuff like that...

[@davidjohnearl9823]

Sounds too far fetched i believe the murderers testimony they stated Folger even waved as she thought they were house guests brought them from back bedrooms Folger escaped ran out the bk doors at same time tex was struggling on lawn with Voytek

[@dreams1319]

Your theory makes no sense

[@arielbonzai462]

What doesn’t make sense? You need to explain why just like you say he has to. Do you think the random murders ordered by shrimps Charlie actually makes sense? Helter Skelter makes no sense. Drug burn and anger at rejection maybe, but what makes the most sense is Bug wanting to sell a book ad knowing the more lurid and weird it is the more books will say. To this day Helter Skelter is the best selling true crime book in the world. The bug had his co writer front and center every day of the trial.

[@yyygggggg10]

He's got the real info,he's gonna tell us what reeeealy happened lol

[@dreams1319]

Your speculating with no proof

[@arielbonzai462]

Actually he has excellent evidence. The blood is as forensic as it gets. It was Sharon and Sebrings blood by type. Indeed there’s a shape very much like a small man in the fetal position where jays type is. There are bloody drag marks and some smeared blood on the trunks. He’s not expressing it the way a cop or lawyer would, but he knows what he’s saying and he’s explained the blood evidence in the porch than anyone else.

[@dreams1319]

Your story makes no sense dude that was probably voychecks blood on the porch he ran on the porch trying to get away from them

[@LordOsiron]

Both puddles of blood were 0- Both Sharon and Sebring were 0- One was distinctly Sebrings, and the other was distinctly Sharons. Voytek and Folger didn't have 0 - blood. And there's plenty of evidence to show that. I also like how you said "Probably" like you don't know what you're talking about.

[@arielbonzai462]

It wasn’t type O which Voyteck and Folger had.

[@arielbonzai462]

@@LordOsironthat a boy. You’re good. How did I miss you for so long? Thank the gods for algorithmic thingies.