The Closet: What... Is It? (Deltarune Theory)

[@CalamitasCalliope]

I think the video you are talking about could either be MollyStars' video on her device theory, or it was JaruJaru's video going over the same topic. If you haven't seen MollyStars' video I really recommend it by the way. They're really going off the deep end with the meta narrative of DR and it's really cool

[@guiltyflygon]

I've watched both so it could be either lol. Though I think it was probably Device Theory part 1 and I forgot because part 2 just came out

[@cwolf0915]

@guiltyflygon I just watched them both a few days ago but now I need a refresher. I try n keep up with way too many theories to remember who said what.

[@genericlurker5778]

This is a really fun theory, though there could be a much simpler reason that the closet is the way it is. It could just be by virtue of it *being* a storage closet. Closets are meant to hold objects that aren't actively being used, such as chalk, or old games, extra computer equipment, decorations, etc. Sure this explanation is more underwhelming, but I'd be fine if the bunker was involved with connecting the dark worlds in some way. Maybe it isn't that the bunker is so large, its just that there are tunnels to the bunker put everywhere, who knows.

[@guiltyflygon]

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking for the bunker. That still leaves us with a sprawling web of tunnels under the town which is what I meant when I said the bunker stretches underneath the town, which I guess wasn't quite the right wording huh. As for the storage closet idea. That does explain some of the quirks of the closet world, mostly why every darkner can be there, but it doesn't really explain any of the other weird stuff like the visual connection between the Castle Town and Jevil's basement or the whole cliffs area. It could end up being some mixture of both ideas too though, who knows?

[@Alestance]

​@@guiltyflygon A year late on this one, but to counterpoint: If dark worlds magnify and enbiggen the space they exist in, the 'Bunker' fountain would still need to be miles upon miles upon even hundreds of miles of vertical climbing just to get back to the unused classroom. Google assures me that a bunker would need to be at least 3 feet underground. Not that we could know, but, by how much does 3 feet expand in the dark? That metal cabinet in the unused classroom transforms into a giant castle, after all. It really is more likely that when the heroes fully enter the dark world proper, they're starting on the top of the storage closet and sliding down to ground level, rather than starting at ground level, falling deeper into a hole in the ground and then that hole in the ground being mysteriously level with the classroom floor next door.

[@pomelo9518]

@@Alestance I don't think the expansion is easily linear. I think the size of a thing all depends on what the people think. Like how, say, a TTRPG player interprets figurines and a plastic landscape as an adventure, and of course the figurines are scaled much less than the landscape.

[@Rey_Pixels]

If you ask me, it’s because of “the balance of light and dark” mentioned in Ralsei’s prophecy. I hypothesize that you can only travel between the light and dark worlds if that balance is stable, hence, why Kris has to seal the Card Castle dark fountain before Kris and Susie can leave the dark world. There being too much darkness could explain why it leaks out of the supply closet when Kris and Susie open the door. Assuming that it also explains why the Computer Lab door does the same, it tells us that basically as soon as we leave castle town, and go to the library, that’s when the fountain is created. (Because we were still able to leave the Castle Town Dark world at that point in time.) It also explains Seam’s warning about “The sun going down”. It’s the natural cycle of the Earth’s light fluctuating, thus, temporarily sealing off any exit to any dark world(s) until the sun rises in the light world again. This would match with the fact that Berdly and Noelle were already in the computer lab, like Noelle said they’d be, when we can infer that the dark fountain was created while they were already inside of the room.

[@trondordoesstuff]

24:40 The sweepstakes, specifically in the Shadowmen page, proves that Ralsei is present for at least some portion of this Dark World.

[@guiltyflygon]

Yeah, someone brought up that before, which I do think means he'll be there eventually. The weird part of it to me still is that's the only place he appears. Like, he doesn't have a cowboy sprite for example... I don't think the Shadowmen section is a red herring, but it might tell us something about Ralsei's level of involvement that he isn't being emphasized as much. Maybe he will come in late or you'll get booted out of the dark world at sunrise and have to go back to finish it? Maybe, maybe not lol.

[@667link5]

That isn't necessarily true, as we see lancer in the deltarune update while we don't have the playing cards in our inventory when Kris creates the fountain

[@667link5]

I don't like the idea of ralsie not having a big impact because he had little to none for almost the entirety of chapter two, so I would rather he be completely absent than simply present and unimportant. Also, I think that seeing ralsie and Toriel together doesn't make much sense conceptually, and would force Toby to directly address the ralsie asriel connection, which I wouldn't personally consider a good idea so early into the game. We have to keep in perspective that we likely only have 2/7 of the equation, so explaining one of the biggest mysteries before the halfway point would signal to us that major twists are coming, lightnining some of the tension and importance of some of the smaller mysteries in our minds, which overall would be a negative in my book as that is what characterizes much of of the current climate of theorycrafting.

[@godoatthegoat2884]

I was surprised by the amount of fresh ideas from this video I never heard or thought about before. Great theory

[@guiltyflygon]

Thanks 👍

[@cwolf0915]

FINALLY!!! A theory on that damn closet! It's so weird how it takes you one place the first time...then suddenly smack in front of castle town

[@WeaselWeaselW]

I think the Closet Dark World has either always existed (just in a different place - it seems to be Deeper, perhaps meaning it can be anywhere), or it was made by someone other than the Knight. Such as Gaster

[@ieatsand9259]

Maybe it was a new robot type character. We just don’t Know yet

[@Laff700]

Finally another person realizes that the closet dark world is ancient and must've only recently breached into the closet from the bunker!

[@RevorDragon]

Regarding light canceling out a dark world: when we reach the fountain, it describes our soul "as if it were glowing" and also in the boss fights as "shining its power" onto teammates. And we all know the song... "there's a light inside your soul" Also, for the video you were talking about learning about IMAGE_FRIEND, did you perhaps mean part 1 of the device theory from m0llystars?

[@guiltyflygon]

Hmm... I didn't think about that but you're very right! That might explain how sealing dark fountains works in general. (That was the video yes, someone else told me too lol. There should be a card there now that links to it.)

[@doommustard8818]

To answer the theming question: Playing cards go in a game room/kindergarten. Computer parts belong in a server room. Everything belongs in a storage closet.

[@andryovychplays_ua]

15:02 unrelated but i think they look like giant ancient chalk

[@cwolf0915]

10:04 it's speculated that the shelves are the cliffs and dust balls Susie hides in are just dust buildup. However others theorize that these are the remains of a past dark world destroyed by the roaring...not my cup of tea though. The roaring is an event that consumes the Iight world in darkness, so the closet dark world isn't remnants of a past one, it's just dusty and empty as heck. What's more intriguing is why kris n Susie don't drop back in the same starting point on 3 different occasions while entering the grand fountain??

[@guiltyflygon]

I definitely don't think it's a dark world previously destroyed by the Roaring. If it was the darkners inside should be statues which we don't see at all. Though I suppose Ralsei hiding a garden of statues might link back to the Narnia themes this story has. You know, going into the closet and finding a new world and all. The cliffs being shelves and the dust being dust makes enough sense, but the castle is still a weird outlier. I still feel like the closet being totally empty is odd, it's a supply closet after all, where are all the supplies? Unless Noelle knowingly sent Susie to the empty closet for... reasons, and ended up getting Kris sent with her instead by accident. Or maybe it's just that Noelle is the knight lol. Who knows.

[@cwolf0915]

@guiltyflygon I love it! Noelle revealed to be a knight!! Lol doubtful but I'd fall over in shock if it did happen 😆. You're right about the statues...there would be stone darkners everywhere, but there are no signs of them, unless they aged and turned to those dust piles??? I doubt it. Ralsei is sus though...he has to be keeping something from neither Kris or the player because he doesn't even have a room n the castle and when Susie asked about it he seemed vague on purpose...plus he has a locked door on the first floor behind the cauldron, but you wouldn't lock the door for your dungeon where you keep a dangerous, violent Spade King??? Maybe that's where he keeps the statues lol.

[@RealmsCrossMyths]

"Why can things not turn to stone in the closet regardless of where they are from?" Think about it. Toys you are finished playing with? Extra computer and gaming components? Towels and blankets you're not using? Sports gear out of season? Books you're not reading? Clothes that no longer fit you but aren't worn into disrepair? Things you bought but have no room for? Canned and preserved food? Art supplies? Dishes and other eatery? Old photographs? When we aren't using something, *we put it in storage.*

[@guiltyflygon]

A couple of people have mentioned this so I apologize if my reply is curt lol. My basic counter-argument is that, while this works for most darkners, it seemingly doesn't for some like the Hacker, Tasque, Tasque Manager for example. Hacker is a computer cursor and the other two are programs, not a physical objects, so it's pretty incongruous for the storage theme to fit them in. It kind of depends on how the laptop is categorized, if a single object can be multiple darkners at once, etc. But for now it leaves me with a little doubt. It also doesn't explain the castle, similarities to Jevil's basement, or Ralsei's movement between fountains, but that could be something else entirely so I digress. Bottom line, it's hard to know, and you could definitely be right, but I'm not 100% convinced either way lol.

[@RealmsCrossMyths]

@@guiltyflygon Our comment specifically deals with the darkners not turning to stone. And if a computer goes into storage, so does its cursor, as does any files on hard disks in storage. At least that's our logic. We wouldn't be surprised if we're wrong, though.

[@Jummy]

2:42 Oh, interesting! I had always assumed "Photon readings negative" meant "negative" as in "not-affirmative"-- zero photons-- and I never questioned that assumption or considered the other possibilities. Goes to show the value of a diverse theory space!

[@guiltyflygon]

You know, I just thought about this when you said this... I bet the Japanese translation could probably clear this up. The word used seems to be "マイナス" (Mainasu or roughly minus). As far as I can see Mainasu is used mostly for actual subtraction. In other words, when something is taken away or there is a deficit of it. That said, I'm only gleaning this from translation websites, so an actual Japanese speaker would probably help a lot here. I unfortunately don't know any, so maybe bringing up this topic on the reddit or something could solve it.

[@Raziera]

A reason why the closet can hold all monsters but others might be its own theme. As in: its a closet, a place where you put any old thing your no longer actively using but don't want to throw away. Thus any Darkner can be there because....they're being stored away because your done with their chapter and thus the new theme of all the Darkners that end up there is that they're things that your done using. A bit silly in its reasoning, but all dark worlds are silly. As for the tunnel system Dark world....maybe. keep in mind we don't know the full workings of the Dark World. the Closet demonstrates that by its very existence being an exception to all the others. For all we know, there might be a third form of Dark World other than the Knight Dark Worlds and the Ralsei Dark World that works differently than either of them, and I'd place the Dark World in general as a world far more magical than scientific so....weird new rules popping up or miraculous one-off things happening because magic wouldn't surprise me.

[@guiltyflygon]

That's fair, but the big question becomes why DOESN'T the closet have darkners in it already? (Besides the barely sentient mold guys) I can see the logic of it being a mostly abandoned room and Toriel and Alphys mostly bringing their own stuff, but then you'd imagine it'd have some dusty unneeded stuff still left there like the papers that are on the floor when we walk in the first time. Why don't those come to life? The same logic also works for the bunker, as it's a place where you'd put things you want to keep safe, and I definitely agree with the way you assigned the theme of the dark world in a way. How is the closet dark world special? Other than it being able to house all darkners and Ralsei not wanting us to close it. (Which might just be because it's his lol) Because the Knight assumedly didn't make it?

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Light = photons, so negative photons is like the antimatter version of light. And it also makes sense that light itself always bests darkness. You turn on a light and the darkness disappears.

[@Valetravelgames]

9:23 That's actually a really nice point! It would be really cool to actually hang out in the castletown rooms at night

[@aresrivera9744]

9:15 I know this probably isn’t what he meant, but it could be the fact that people would try to look for you, and discover the dark fountain. Since you’re coming home so late.

[@ABDERAMBL]

Powerpoint format doesn’t bother me at all I literally just love listening to speculation. Deffo liked some of the concepts presented in this video and thunk they might give hints as to whats going on

[@SailorShulk9]

22:18 Another interesting thing to note here is if the fountain is in the bunker and these holes connect the secret boss rooms to the bunker with its pure darkness fountain, it would provide additional insight to Jevil saying that the Kingdom locked themselves away when Jevil was locked in the basement. Considering his outside knowledge and connection to Gaster and even the thing about the depths and bubbling up from Hell that he says after FIGHTing him, would suggest that by locking Jevil away, they locked themselves away from the true darkness which may also relate to shadow crystals and how Jevil and the loaded disk held so much power. An interesting connection with Spamton is not is that he was communicating with Gaster or whoever on the phone and not from the basement hearing persumablythe same Gaster garbage noise that we here when using the phone after Gaster ghosted him The loaded disk in the basement is what gives him his powers. It really does beg the question of what's going to happen in chapter 3 since I'd assume that the Dreemur Household does not have a bunker hatch or even if the bunker goes that far in town.

[@Pinkflame1001]

Dude I love the PowerPoint format, please keep this going!! LOL it keeps everything concise and easy to listen to, great job!

[@ratking679]

hi, so i have a weird idea but what if the balance of the dark and light is so fragile because the bunker is so huge and already has a dark fountain, that’s why ralsei is so worried about the count without knowing where the big fountain actually is

[@guiltyflygon]

Could be true! I mean, a balance of light and dark would imply that there's just as much dark world as there is light world so... If this bunker dark world was as big as the town that'd make sense.

[@leoperd3487]

This fits very nicely with all those theories of Ralsei having ulterior motives and/or being in cahoots with a mysterious entity in some way. If someone (or something) Ralsei is working with is trying to condense darkness in the bunker, _of course_ Ralsei wants the fountains to be sealed, their friend’s experiment is leaking! This could also provide the Knight with a goal beyond causing the apocalypse. Perhaps they’re trying to prevent the pressure from building up too much and exploding or something (and maybe bring the Roaring _their_ way). And if dark worlds can be dissipated by natural light, Toriel’s house is actually a _very_ good place to prevent the pressure from building up without it spilling into the outside world and causing The Roaring. It’s spacious enough to be able to contain the darkness during night, and the windows provide plenty of light to dispose of said darkness. It could act as a “storm drain” of sorts.

[@hbudson1248]

The way I always interpreted any Darkner "fitting" into the closet has to do with the whole theming point. More specifically, I think where Darkners can and can't fit in has to do with the real world locations the fountains were formed in. We actually have a crucial example of this from chapter 3, prior to it coming out- in the images of the "green room" we got from the Spamton Sweeptakes (which we know is chapter 3 from the file names), you can see a few Maus in the background- simply because having a computer mouse in your house makes perfect sense. Given that, then, the reason why every Darkner we know of fits in is because- well, it's a storage closet. Yknow, closets designed to store varieties of things. You could see almost anything in your average school storage closet and not question it too heavily. Just my take tho

[@guiltyflygon]

A few people have brought up the closet's theme potentially being something like "unused items" hence why everyone can fit in there, and while I do believe the Darkners turning to stone is due to not fitting with a dark world's motif, I still have a couple of doubts. Mainly that the closet dark world seems to have some weird properties that don't fit with it just being a closet, like the castle town, and the fact that the storage argument doesn't really work with everybody. Like, for chapter 1 it's fine, but chapter 2? The Hacker is a computer cursor so him fitting in seems weird, and there's many others based on programs and not physical items like Tasque Manager or ViroVirokun. That said, it kind of depends on whether the laptop can count as like, 15 darkners at once, or just Queen lol. At this point I think it's impossible to know given our limited knowledge of the dark worlds, so anything could happen.

[@maxmanly3122]

100% onboard with the bunker theory. ive believed for a long time that there are tumnels running underneath the town that is linked to the darkworld. it also makes sense that Dess is missing in the bunker. great stuff

[@tobysinbad]

Your “condensable darkness” idea is very compatible with the Submarine Castletown theory by Brix, you’ll enjoy if you haven’t seen it

[@667link5]

I dont love the idea of the bunker connecting all of these rooms, mainly due to the convince factor with the knight just happening to make fountains in these areas, with the added possiblity of their not being a secret boss in chapter three. That being said, I do absolutely love your ideas behind natural light cutting through the darkness, and that the photon readings can only go negative upon the initial creation and expansion of the darkness. The light dissipating the darkness and the fun gang not being able to actually close the fountain in chapter three would lead to a faciniating end to the dark world, and would catch everyone off guard, causing many people to rethink everything they think they know about the fountains, without actually changing anything thats been established. It would also give the judgement hall reference a double or possibly triple meaning/function, and it's always amazing to add things that re-characterize the past whithout it making it overly complicated. Overall, this was a fantastic video that really sparked my interest, and got me thinking about things in a way I haven't before. This game is so big and complex, I love how there can be seemingly endless conversation around it

[@Bleats_Sinodai]

3:40 because Castle Town's is The Fountain of Darkness, the main source of darkness that keeps the dark world existing. The others are Dark Fountains, which are not supposed to exist because they are essentially leaking the darkness from The Fountain of Darkness into the light world, causing instability. The Fountain of Darkness doesn't really leak like the others, it simply maintains the dark world. It's stable. That's why it lacks the effect we see from the closet and computer lab doorways. 18:05 Jevil is the Joker card that slipped under the cabinet. He is both free from the closet, outside of it, but still imprisoned, being stuck under it, out of reach from anyone inside the cabinet.

[@guiltyflygon]

Is there anything more that implies that the Castle Town fountain is special other than Ralsei calling it "pure darkness"? I feel like a lot of the lore you explained at the beginning is something I've never heard before. Also, the Closet Dark Fountain and the Castle Town Dark Fountain are the same fountain, at least as far as we know. So the Castle Town fountain does emit Darkness just like the Computer Lab the first time.

[@cwolf0915]

11:53 Yeah, because how you go from the door shutting and everything going dark, and floor vanishing from under you to just being able to jump right in to it with the door open and no one to close it. Plus the floor is already missing

[@cly_]

Photon readings are probably like tests, so positive means there would be photons there but negative just means a lack of protons, not that there's "anti" protons

[@guiltyflygon]

That's fair, though I don't know why Gaster would be testing if there are photons in a dark room lol. You'd think he'd know that 😅 Unless like, whatever experiment blew out the lights and that's his overcomplicated way to say that?

[@KyrieFortune]

"Photon readings... negative" "Dude, just turn on the lights" "Ah, now the readings are positive" "ffs old geezer"

[@memevondank1197]

Idk "photon readings negative" Would seem pretty random to report then Just gaster saying "Hmm my sealed room with no light HAS NO LIGHT" which reporting that makes sense in a real experiment but in a fake one seems like an odd line to just attach to a fictional lab report

[@aldenaoc8847]

my headcannon is Ralsei's fountain is like the sun, while the other knight-made dark fountains are like lightbulbs. Smaller, weaker, and easy to blot out

[@IrvingIV]

I think we can combine sunlight theory and darker darkness(i forget if there was an actual name, Jaru posited this one, I believe)theory to better make sense of Ralsei's reaction to Berdly. "What if making a dark fountain inside a dark world brings the roaring?" And if Natural light dissipates darkness...

[@metron_1991]

Good video based on actual proof provided instead of crazy conjecture

[@idontknow-sh4bj]

The festival dark fountain is really interesting! Festivals can happen at night too, so I hope that happens.

[@captain_lisa4688]

This is one of the best theories I've heard so far! thankyou!

[@Aimai.37]

I'm invested into this theory now lmao, got a lot of thoughts on it. One being that the humans could be in the bunker and underground, in contrast to Undertale

[@hannahbrown5465]

PowerPoint format is 1000% genius

[@RonZ234]

These theories are pretty good! I subbed

[@CalamitasCalliope]

This is a really cool bunch of ideas! The thought of CastleTown's Dark World and the theoretical Bunker Dark World are one in the same is really cool, and it can patch up some questions if the idea that Ralsei can sense whenever a new Fountain is opened turns out to be true. I will say that it seems like Ralsei will be part of the group in Chapter 3, since the newsletters have released a bunch of teaser stuff featuring him, but who knows really

[@guiltyflygon]

Other than (deltarune.com/shadowmen/) where Ralsei is with the gang for the battle and that one meme sprite of him with a melon for a head I don't remember another case of actually seeing him with the group..? Like, the cowboy sprites are only for Kris and Susie and while we see a lot of stuff for Susie linking her to chapter 3 like the "blink" sprite I don't think we see much of Ralsei? That was what I was going off of anyways, I could be wrong though lol, the newsletters are a bit hard to remember all of. The Shadowmen could technically be a chapter 4 enemy if (deltarune.com/assets/images/update2022-dr-ch4-cafe.gif) was taken from the end of chapter 4 rather than the start, but otherwise the Ralsei sprite from ramb would have to be an intentional red herring so yeah, he's probably inexplicably with us lol

[@CalamitasCalliope]

@@guiltyflygon true true

[@algotkristoffersson15]

He and susie will probably be there in all chapters, with only othe characters such as noelle herdly torielle the police (wether undyne or blooky, whichever arrives) and sans perhaps, being on and of members

[@ErisCalamitasButFR]

im rewatching this (along with a majority of the videos on the playlist) for homework on all the stuff thats going on in the most recent theories and honestly a lot of this kinda supplements my pet theory of the great gate being the way that ralsei got into the computer room dark world basically, ralsei has the power to open the gate into the depths/bunker dark world (but honestly they could very well be the same thing) and thats how he traverses between dark worlds now, why the gate was open in chapter 1, i have my suspicion that its because it was directly connected to the classroom dark world, and also as a way to hide this facet of ralsei until ch2 for a more direct answer, but even if it wasnt open then ralsei wouldve likely opened it himself if this turns out to be on the correct side of theories though as to why ralsei would even HAVE such a power... good question! i dont know. thats why this is only a pet theory

[@melodyMonger413]

i got so excited when i saw you made anoþer þeory, you dont even know

[@joechristo2]

does he know?

[@eddie-roo]

anoðer one?

[@PhantomGato-v-]

Thorn

[@melodyMonger413]

@@PhantomGato-v- þorn

[@ZeditYT]

He knows too much!

[@owenaster487]

Maybe there’s no specific theming to the closet because closets are where you might store lots miscellaneous things. It doesn’t matter what room it comes from, if you want to store it in the closet, then it belongs there. Edit just add: what if the reason Ralsei was able to enter the computer dark world was because there was a closet in the lab, and all the closets in the town are actually networked together.

[@IndigoSK5]

Hi! Loved this video. Not sure if anyone pointed this out yet, but I think I know the reason why any darkner can live in the closet. You see, places like the unused classroom or the computer lab have an actual purpose, a reason for those darkners to reside in that specific dark world. That's why Rouxls Kaard and Lancer both turn to stone in the computer lab, as they have virtually no purpose there. However, the thing about the closet is that virtually anything has "purpose" in a closet. Closets are meant to store items and objects, which is what we see happening in Castle Town. It seems the darkners which migrated to Castle Town have changed purpose, which is why we see Queen be confused about hers when confronted with the opportunity to live there. The reason the closet specifically houses all darkners of any origin is because a closet is meant to hold just about anything, from computers to chess sets.

[@IndigoSK5]

Yeah okay, it seemed everyone else pretty much realized this already. Cool.

[@cwolf0915]

12:01 thats icee!!! Im calling it!

[@AntiFaGoat]

You know, I never thought about what that bunker might gave been used for in the past... Could it (at least initially) have been built for the war between humans and monsters? Perhaps the reason that the bunker is closed off is not because of it possibly being unsafe, but rather, as a metaphor for burying dark memories of the past, which are manifesting as the darkners and their world as a whole? Of coyrse literal tools left to rot in the collective unconscious of a war torn population would be angry at the people who left them there. That would also explain Ralsei's strange insistence on being subservient to lightners. Not only is everyone based on objects cast into darkness, but memories can never overpower the person thinking of them. Memories are like shadows - always walking behind and underneath us, but they can never overtake us... and now I'm just thinking of Jordan Peele movies. ✂️

[@thenulliestnomo5799]

Nice theory!!

[@cwolf0915]

7:49 It seems to make sense lol. No other way light should get in. Since there is no windows. So then itll be cool if darkworlds just go poof the moment sunlight hits the room

[@saxeladude]

we think the cost of dark fountains is determination as it's heavily implied like during the final cutscene of chapter 2 where queen tries to convince berdly to make a dark fountain.

[@guiltyflygon]

This is my next video probably lol. About DT and Dark Fountains.

[@saxeladude]

@@guiltyflygon go for it can't wait to see it!!!

[@Delta58784]

I think the closet darkworld could be new. We know that the length a darkworld has existed doesn’t depend on how long its past or lore is. It’s like darkners have always existed but are only able to manifest themselves after a fountain is opened. This could support Kris knight a little but I also think it’s breaks that theory down. Kris really surprised and frightened by the dark world so I think Kris isn’t the knight.

[@Crush_Bandicute]

maybe the real dark fountains were the gas leaks we made along the way

[@idontknow-sh4bj]

Really interesting theory! Thanks

[@saxeladude]

4:30 doesn't ralsei's exposition of the legend in chapter 1 confirm that chapter 1 has two dark fountains though castle town and card castle so it could be possible that castle town's dark fountain has different properties which we are already aware of as everything it is goes against all other knowledge we have on the fountains. there is also the idea of the dark fountains only radiate darkness when unlocked not created we have no clue when chapter 1's card castle dark fountain was created but we do know that chapter 2's was made sometime after the end of chapter 1 as the white dog is described programming in the computer room in hometown during chapter 1.

[@saxeladude]

I make these comments just to point things out not to insult or reject theories

[@guiltyflygon]

All good. I was just busy lately.

[@guiltyflygon]

I might need some clarification on your points here but I'll try my best to explain haha. It is confirmed in Chapter 1 that there are two dark fountains, yes. The point I think you're confused about is from me musing that maybe all the dark fountains come from a single source of darkness under the town. That was mostly just a possibility, not one I particularly believe in but one I had to address. I still believe there was two fountains in chapter one no matter what, even if it's true that they all come from one source. Fountains in that case would just be breaches into this darkness in the bunker under the town instead of what we think now which is that they're breaches into a different dimension or something. Basically, all I was saying is that the Closet dark fountain might be an old fountain that's just leaking darkness up into the closet, and then the Card Kingdom fountain was actually made there later. When it comes to the radiating darkness, it does seem true so far that they only do so when we first open them up. What I was trying to answer was why. After all, if it's really just the first time they're exposed to light then that brings up a lot of questions about the Knight and how they're getting out of these Dark Worlds.

[@saxeladude]

@@guiltyflygon so I had to rewrite my reply because I subscribed. but what I was going to say is that I think we are on the same page I just misunderstood what you meant. I thought the video was saying that darkness only radiates when fountains are created recently not when they are opened. so I was trying to point out that we have no clue when the chapter 1 fountains were made and our only evidence is ralsei saying that the card castle fountain was made after castle town's. so I stated or at least attempted to state that the difference between the castle town fountain and the other fountains is strange and I have no idea why the distinction exists. I may have also missed the part where you acknowledged that there was two dark fountains in chapter 1 at all. the rest of this comment is replying to GuiltyFlygon and is not to explain my initial comment I am aware of the depths theory. I agree with your opinion on that theory as well. I feel that the theory makes sense from a literal point evidence being (you fall into dark worlds, home town has a bunker, bunkers are underground, home town bunker makes gaster noises, gaster must be in bunker, gaster is assumed in dark world, bunker must be dark world). it makes sense literally but I argue/claim it doesn't thematically unless you take ralsei's dialogue of darkners being subservient or social under lightners literally which is an uncomfortable thought or you tie it to undertale where that is a theme. cause the underground is well under the surface world and then makes me think does undertale take place in a dark world? like maybe because there's no proof monsters can even use magic in home town if they could why is rudy in a normal hospital? but that is a can of worms I wish not to even attempt to speculate about. I think we are on the same page GuiltyFlygon. despite the critique I actually really liked this video and the thoughtful replies even more so encouraging community engagement a thing I feel is sorely missed on youtube. so thank you hopefully this reply is clearer.

[@krisspychissp]

8:31 Also my take is that its fine because its night time

[@29Naybla]

Something that bothers me is that Ralsei's fountain, if it's the closet fountain, *cannot* be the original fountain since well, the closet seems to be in active use (example, them going constantly to get more chalk because Susie kept eating it)

[@guiltyflygon]

Well, this theory hinges on the fact that Susie and Kris falling was actually then falling in real life. Thus, the closet fountain is actually in the bunker, and Susie and Kris fell into it when the floor gave way. The floor would have still been there for everyone else.

[@Untrustedlife]

Love me some new theory videos :D

[@TheSkyGuy77]

The Closet might be the Janitor's closet. With cleaning supplies in it, mold from a mop bucket, soap suds from cleaning things, etc.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

And Sans calls himself the janitor at his store....?

[@KyrieFortune]

A closet large enough an adult can hide in. A SHORT adult (who may be able to teleport) can hide in even better.

[@cwolf0915]

24:37 hey that's the submarine theory I seen from somewhere else. It's kinda cool and suggest that the darkworld is underneath the ground sealed by a barrier that has to be "punctured" by determination. Maybe I can find and share a link...brb

[@cwolf0915]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYvZpHl5jtp_aNksi=E4fSxH41caZQrGG1

[@guiltyflygon]

Sorry, your link got blocked so I just got around to watching this theory now! Overall the concepts are pretty similar, but slightly different. The Submarine Theory is based on the assumption that there is a separate world of darkness that we are punching into with Determination, where as mine assumes that there is a greater Dark Fountain literally underneath the town (in the bunker) in the light world that we're punching into. In the former there's a magical barrier that is being pierced, while in the latter it's literally just the floor lol. The Submarine Theory ponders if the Castle Town fountain can move inside the Depths, or if at least Ralsei can move in it, while my theory is supposing that the Castle Town dark world is is so massive (on account of being the whole bunker) that it literally spans the distance between the points where the dark fountains were made, thus Ralsei can just walk between them. (Though this was just a point I threw out there for fun, I'm not sure if I really believe that.) Very similar in basic concept though lol. Thanks for showing me it.

[@cwolf0915]

@guiltyflygon sure! ThankS for giving more details on the differences. Either theory sounds like it could be legit. Your theorynkn the bunker would fit well as far as kris' fear of going inside of if it. They don't seem to be too afraid of much, so something traumatic had to take place in there...I just don't see why the adults wouldn't block it off or investigate if that's where dess mightve went missing...you think kris n assie didn't tell the adults? Sorry I'm rambling now.

[@tarvoc746]

Oh yes, Ralsei's closet. The closet Ralsei is in. The closet specifically made for Ralsei, so he can stay in it. The closet for Ralsei. *Kronk face.*

[@jman5X5]

I'm at the slide for what exactly is the closet dark fountain and why are other darkners able to exist there but not in the Ch 1 & 2 fountains. My thought is that the closet's theme is to store items away. We see the games of the old classroom and the various computer related stuff from the library computer room get stored away in the closet and their darkner-selves come out without any issues. Perhaps that light theme of storing away applies to the dark theme of being able to exist and not turn to stone. That would bring up questions about what King's castle can do for other darkners in Ch 1 since the cabinet idea seems to be the accepted theory for what his castle is in the light world.

[@guiltyflygon]

A few others have brought up the idea of the closet's theme being "storage" thus everyone can exist there. I think it works for most Darkners, but with some of the more conceptual ones like Hacker (which seems to be a computer cursor), or Tasque Manager and the Tasques (which seem to be a task manager program and various running processes) it gets a little dodgy. I don't think having a task manager program in a closet fits the theme... It kind of depends whether Queen is the laptop on her own or if the laptop also supplies these guys. Hard to say at this point tbh. You bring up a very interesting point about the Card Castle though. I wonder if it being a cabinet gives it any special properties like the closet? My gut would be to say no, it'd have to be its own dark fountain in order to get those, but it's possible that's why the Knight chose there to make the fountain. Same with the computer lab. Queen's mansion is probably the server closet or storage cabinet. Them being so similar is a little suspicious.

[@moyai6618]

Um… it’s a closet. I’m the original. Starwalker

[@algotkristoffersson15]

10:40 A closet doesn't realy have a theme, they can store prety much anything. THat's why they all work

[@guiltyflygon]

I would agree but it still doesn't explain why the closet is empty (no darkners besides Ralsei, yet Noelle/Alphys fully believe there are extra supplies in there), why the castle exists there, or the watery noises we hear when Kris first wakes up. The closet being themeless because it's a storage space makes sense of the petrifying darkners problem, but none of the other weird happenings. So, even if my insane ramblings are wrong, something else is clearly going on lol.

[@marsgreekgod]

I think dark worlds are different until the first time a lightener goes in.

[@guiltyflygon]

That's very possible given how much we know the Cyber City seems to have been shaped by Noelle... and to a lesser extent Berdly lol. We'll just have to see if it tracks with Chapter 1 when we learn more about Susie and Kris!

[@IvyDoggins]

My theory is Castle Town, its Dark Fountain, and Ralsei appear wherever they are needed, like The Doctor and the TARDIS. This is because the Dark Fountain and Ralsei are made of pure darkness, which means as long as a room is completely dark, they can appear.

[@guiltyflygon]

A very interesting concept if true! I could definitely see some shenanigans happening later in the story with being able to call the Caste Town to wherever you want.

[@br2891]

Great video

[@bee1104]

Hold up though the chapter 3 dark fountain we enter at night

[@cwolf0915]

10:26 the theme....I dont believe there is no theme. The closet is just empty n that's why Ralsei needs you to help fill with....junk! An assortment of junk at that. No theme means you can create a town anyway you want with whatever items (darkners) you want. Raleigh sorta explains this to us when we go to the classroom...that he mysteriously knows about in the real world. I also think Ralsei is able to enter other dark worlds because he's just generically from that closet or has some sort of meta abilities.

[@guiltyflygon]

It's possible that the closets theme is just "needs to store things" but I don't know what that would say about Ralsei lol. Is Ralsei even from the closet? I don't know. It possible Ralsei is just a super-Darkner that has special powers that have yet to be explained to us, that's for sure. It just isn't very fun to theorize with that in mind because it's like staring into an abyss. There is pretty much nothing you can say about it that's interesting lol. A lot of people have speculated that his knowledge of the light world and meta topics might be because he has a shadow crystal, which would be neat if true, but that's about as far as we can go with our current knowledge.

[@cwolf0915]

@guiltyflygon The crazy thing about Ralsei is lots of people say he is either Kris's "Fursona" or the remains of a dead Asriel. What's interesting about them is rather he is either or both, Ralsei still shares similarities to the empty closet lol. One I know for sure is his lack of fulfillment. Sure he says he's a prince but he has not subject. Just like his dark world is a closet with nothing in it but mold n dust. Makes you wonder why they even sent kris and Susie to the closet for chalk lol. Another is his lack of personality, to just as the closet is empty. I feel this will change even more as the story progresses, but that's my theory. Some say he might just pan out to be a bad guy who is working with gaster. I just feel that he knows everything, but doesn't know who he really is (personality wise).

[@cwolf0915]

20:31 I think it was mystic slime or jaru?? Then again Andrew Cunningham might have as well lol who knows

[@KrisTrocity]

this is so smart

[@kylonbell123]

Well done

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Maybe the Roaring is basically creating a dark fountain inside of the Castle Town/Bunker dark world. O_O

[@moki4541]

Gaster's sexuality is hiding in the closet. Time for a coming out

[@saylemevelyn]

plot twist: the full bunker dark world is just undertale

[@guiltyflygon]

:0

[@reversedragon3]

"photon readings negative" may seem like nonsense, but it really depends what mathematics you are using to describe photons if you consider photons to be always in motion, like a thrown tennis ball going across a grid with two baskets at either of the sides, you could begin counting both baskets on the same scoreboard where a ball flying from the positive to the negative side is -1 and a ball flying in the other direction is +1. I doubt that's the interpretation Undertale is using, but it's worth knowing. mathematical systems are somewhat arbitrary until physics uses them to model a real-life process, and in many cases photons behave more like an interaction between two objects where one is sending energy to the other. a thrown tennis ball that never stops in the middle and always lands in another basket.

[@guiltyflygon]

I'm definitely no math whiz so I'll take your word for it lol

[@Otter-q4v]

maybe the living dust in the dark world is monster dust in the light world

[@IrvingIV]

I hate making films, the only thing i hate more than making films is not making films. -Defunctland, paraphrased.

[@theyoutubegamer6241]

I Don't Know Why Everyone Complicates Stuff The Closet Has Chalk In It So The Huge Pillars And The Dust Are Chalk Related (Pillars Are Chalks And The White Dust Is Chalk Dust) And Ralsei's Castle Is A Cabinet In The Closet (So That Explains Why It Looks Stranger Than Other Dark Worlds But Ther Rest Of Your Points Are Still Pretty Vague)

[@tobysinbad]

Does the weather genuinely only play where you are in the morning? In the UK it’s on after every news broadcast I know this is a thing we famously talk about bc we’re boring but like. That sounds genuinely disorienting

[@guiltyflygon]

To be fair I'm not one to watch TV news but I do think getting the weather forecast in the morning is usually what you see represented in media if nothing else.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Are you talking about the school closet? Or the Bunker/Shelter south of town?

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Oh. I shoulda watched more lol

[@hotcoco2413]

this makes me wanna make the fnaf/sonic timeline power point . [ Wed 9:24pm 9/20/2023 ]

[@godslaughter]

Just one important note: there is no such thing as natural and unnatural light. ALL light is natural, making a bulb/diode light up is the same process as lighting up a candle flame, a campfire or being in the sunlight - it's energy conversion that emits radiation visible to our eyes. Everything radiates, therefore everything emits some form of "light" (the entirety of the electromagnetic spectrum is light), and there is no distinction. If anything, it would only make sense that a large amount of light would cause it to dissipate, or perhaps light accompanied by another form of radiation, such as UV from the Sun, is what would do it. An LED diode is just a very faint light and does not require a lot of amperage to light it up, but it's still natural light. I know what you meant but it wouldn't make sense xD And while we're at it, there is literally nothing in existence that is unnatural, because if it were, it wouldn't be able to exist. Nothing we create is outside of nature. Edit: oh my god this is actually really freaking cool, that's such a cool idea. I never even thought much about the fact that stabbing the ground would be kinda like enabling the darkness from below that's "bubbling from the depths" and existing in the bunker under the town to be let out into the overworld. Edit 2: are we even sure that Gaster is a physical entity in Deltarune? He is important to the narrative, probably, yes, but is he an actual character or someone beyond the GAME_WORLD? I don't think Gaster is just walking around like "heeeyyy haha good day to you, lad". I highly doubt he has a physical form or that he is a physical character, but is instead the herald of the SURVEY_PROGRAM and is a metaphysical character. Like me :^)

[@guiltyflygon]

I've never claimed to be a scientist so I'm sure you're right about the physics of light lol. I guess by "natural light" I meant in the colloquial sense of "light from nature, not technology." The Dark Fountains seem to be made from what is basically magic, so I don't think it's too farfetched that there could be a distinction there. Although, DT is linked to science a lot in Undertale and "Survey Program" is a very science-y take on the more mystical rules around DT (like saving) from Undertale, so maybe there's some more tech to it then I'm inclined to believe.

[@shadowofroserade]

gay people (ralsei)

[@saxeladude]

what about lumens?

[@guiltyflygon]

Like I said, I'm no expert lol. I looked it up and Lumens are apparently the unit of measurement when it comes to light? In that case Photons are still the particle that would be missing if there was no light, and that result would then be measured in Lumens. So when Gaster says "Photon readings negative" he's referring to a reading of -25 Lumens or something. I still might be wrong though lol. I didn't particularly like physics in school.

[@saxeladude]

@@guiltyflygon fair I just find it weird that gaster puts it that way. because you'd think as a scientist of many fields to the point of an indistinguishable amount of technology could be considered magic (that's a paraphrased quote I know not who from). that gaster would know what a lumen is unless he's trying to be vague for some double meaning of photon like how stats in undertale are treated.

[@guiltyflygon]

@@saxeladude Yeah, that's true. My only thoughts might be that maybe Toby isn't much of a physics nerd either or, probably more likely, Toby may have chosen to use photons as a more accessible word for a general audience. That said, it could have implications I just don't understand lol. If you're more knowledgeable on the subject that might be something to dig into

[@saxeladude]

@@guiltyflygon I assure you I am not more knowledgeable on the subject. but if I find something odd that niggles the back of my brain I'm likely to share my speculative opinions. like I have been doing evidenced by the 10 plus comments I've written for your video's thus far. lol

[@memevondank1197]

Actually lumens wouldn't be the proper measurement because Lumens are just light visable to the human eye emmitted by a souce and they are equal to the Watts of a light source multiplied by the photons per second it emits I hope this helps

[@sunny__41]

it's me. i'm in the closet. i'm trans😔😔

[@guiltyflygon]

I believe in you!

[@sunny__41]

@@guiltyflygon thnamnks!!!!!!!!