The Cost of "Free" in PGR

[@Smorticle]

~Bit of correction to make for the voucher shop, the limit is for the discount, you can still buy more after that. Ty for the correction commenters! This is essentially a part 2 of the original video about Kuro's generosity so please watch the original video about Kuro's generosity to get the full picture. There are some more points I've certainly left out with what's behind Kuro's generosity, but that's not necessarily the point. The point is that there is a purpose behind it all, and they don't design or do things 100% out of the goodness of their heart. Maybe 70% at best. Which is still good because the fact is, it exists, but understand the position they are in and what kind of game PGR is at the end of the day. As for WuWa, considering how the Chinese Moon Festival is around the corner passing out a Free 5-star isn't really out of left field. Whether they "need to" or "want to" release that character for free is up to you to decide.

[@tonyvn110]

This game is a marathon, not a sprint.

[@Syahburei]

If this game is a marathon,then other games are probablg a triathlon XD

[@tonyvn110]

@@Syahburei exactly. XD

[@deus2645]

NGL the beginning LVL 0-80 should be a sprint and 80-120 is the marathon.

[@Istreakilaz]

*Norman Revival Plan joins the chat.*

[@CheztaAhmad]

@@Istreakilaz bro i am dying for several patches in this mode. Thank you, Lamia and soon Qu for joining and making it much much easier.

[@NovaStrike118]

Another nuance to add is that these "prices" are purely because of "meta". Realisticly, if you want a specific old character, you can get them. If you want a new character, you can get them, just not both simultaneously without patience "Meta" relates only to competitive modes (PPC and Warzone), whose BC rewards are participation based, not performance based. PPC skulls and WZ points do depend on your performance, but the difference isn't big, and those rewards only exist to strengthen your current characters, not get new ones. So in terms of collecting characters, you *can* suck and you can go any route you want, and you'll still be mostly fine.

[@BladeSerph]

The extra irony is once you remove the fact you can reap all the critical rewards (Namely the BLACK CARDS) by simply clearing the content and reach X amount of points in said activities and its simply to get additional pain cage skulls or additional warzone credits, for those who wanna rank higher, which mostly amount to scalping extra fragments on the former and extra memory USBs or some other resource you can get from basically half a dozen other game modes at this point.... Literally translates to you dont need to get the latest units ASAP for the more casual audience since they are gonna rerun eventually and every single A-rank, Weapon, Un and CUB are avail 100% of the time meaning you only have one thing your focusing on in terms of time limited things, the S-ranks. Which beyond that is if you want a 100% guranteed rate up for a few particular things, which usually is circumvented by having other things: For example, for CUBS, you have Norman warfare to get large piles of ore to trade in for CUB shards which means you can saveu p to get any CUB via farming instead of needing to gacha for them. Which considering the gacha pity requirements are still far lower then many other gacha games already says alot, including having the majority of its `stuff your gonna usually gacha for`, being acquire`able with non-gacha methods anyway.

[@NovaStrike118]

@@BladeSerph Exactly, and the fact that it only takes 2-3 patches for a character to rerun, the fact that reruns are 70% which is still better than most other gachas' debuts (50%), the fact that next patch adds a permanent universal selector through rate-up, which btw you can save and it WILL continue to evolve and add future units, only being 2 patches behind, and then you add the regular selectors, rewards, etc. And finally, the fact that if you just wanna do combat and rotations, Cursed Waves (and the upcoming Derived From Matrix next patch) just has all the characters, and you can get them to SS and get their sigs within the gamemode (not the leaps though), and yeah... There is literally no pressure, the FOMO is also undermined by the fact you already know CN characters. You're already late to the party by a year, so what's another 3 months of waiting for a rerun?

[@Istreakilaz]

I also want to add that Luminance is actually pretty OP for early game players lol. She WILL suck metawise without leap, but she will absolutely cheese the early game damage rampup through her excessive healing just by normally use. Plus, her 5* weapon (best for luminance btw) being just given out, makes her very easily to use. Granted, i do know that this is advice coming from year 0-1, and Luminance has fallen. But for a new player, she probably will _really_ help out with stages like early strongholds, or memory rescue, as i have experienced from making guest alt accounts even just last year.

[@CheztaAhmad]

solid points man. I came to PGR years ago bcs it reminded me of HI3 which I hate bcs their PPC and Warzone is performance based, not participation based like you said. So i had to rank high or my crystal (Black Cards) income will take a dip. Even worse bcs the higher you go, the more whales you found. But I had to go high bcs their powercrept is pretty fast. I couldnt complete full unit (unit+wpn+stigma/memories) fast enough, let alone full team (3 units) with just monthly cards. On top of that, stigmata or memories are gacha item, not farmed.

[@ZetaZeds]

If you put your time and dedication you'll get rewarded. So don't expect everything will be thrown at you on the 1st day😎

[@Nomimonyo]

Thank you, someone needed to say this. As someone who started 2 weeks after the global release, I had some S ranks missing but made due of those I had. 3 years, and I'm still trying to grind for potential units I need in the future.

[@CheztaAhmad]

true. PGR lays out the way for you to get them all, but not feeding you like a baby.

[@DCminh-pe9wf]

Basically Some nuance behind Kuro Game generosity: -Most free unit are kept away behind grindable mechanic, which usually take a decent while before you're able to obtained them -Free unit that are obtained easily at the start (the 2 S rank selector) arent that great, as the first one consist of characters that are power crept and mediocre at best, and the 2nd has only 2 meta option (garnet/rosetta, maybe plume). Though, this might just be an unavoidable issue and not as an intended nuance by the dev, as both selector were made available awhile ago and at that time the avaiable character were pretty strong -Some character need shards (basically a duplicated system) to function effectively. That said, you can farm duplicated shard in PPC without using a gacha and while i wouldnt say any character need more investment than that, duplicate shard also take time to farm, which makes this similar to point 1 -BC gained from event/dailies arent actually that high, the S rank limited character are just spaced out enough with free S rank and A rank that you can still hard pity all the limited S rank without paying/luck and a little bit of left over Some other nuance id like to mention: -Sig weapon are really strong, with alot of them making rotation much smoother and in turn make character alot stronger and fun to play. Fortunately some of the more egregious case of this involve A rank sig weapon or un (Haicma/Bambinata) The harmonization system recently added has also made sig weapon even more valuable -A rank in this game are pretty mediocre.If you're used to stuff like Bennett/Xinqiu/Xiangling or Tingyun/Pela/Gallagher, unfortunately this game doesnt have those kind of character. A rank does have cool animation and flashy gameplay unlike say, genshin, but strenght wise they mostly serve as subsitute unit before you get the S rank version of their respective role

[@hana827]

agree. though despite not strong, newer A rank characters such as bambinata, noctis and bridget been tailored for fun gameplay. for some people who hop into pgr for fun gameplay might enjoy A rank characters more than S rank, which is made for efficient clearing contents (sorry for bad ENG)

[@Atria.Arthuria]

Still, it's free and as the video said, it cost time. Depends on where the player come from, either newcomer to gacha game or the other, it's not all that different to playing any gacha game. It takes time to get everything you want. But, at least we given some time to prepare and save up (except the future patch when 3 S-rank characters released back to back). If the player want to get anything they want, they need to spend money. That just like any other gacha game out there. Yes, Kuro is generous but they still gacha game in the end. One genre that predatory on their nature. About other nuance you mentioned: -Sig only matter if you're tryhard at ppc or warzone. Rotation is also on the same page, only matter if you're tryhard at ppc or warzone. You can clear anything with the purple rank or gold rank weapon, and without proper rotation. -For the A-rank, yeah they kinda- well actually, the base A-rank are all suck tbh stat wise. But they given for "free" when debuted, and you can farm their shard daily. So.... the silver lining is they free and the rank upgrade is also free, I guess? and their rank upgrade is ok at best. Not like genshin or hsr that 4* is locked behind gacha or sometimes given for free but not their Eidolon or Cons except if you already have them. In the end, it time-gated. Some doesn't really mind, the other might not like it.

[@blueberry7478]

I love the way you're talking about thr low rank from HSR like you can farm for them. They're A rank, what did you expect from them. About the free S rank selector, you will find them weak: 1) If you're note used to their skills. 2) If you didn't mastered theit gameplay 3) If you're a meta slave. 4) If you're in a competion with other players.

[@lordgus615]

A rank are still quite good outside of dps role tho like how long i use liv lux before feral 21 arrived , and with lamia + vera rozen + no 21 dark is still a good hypercarry team , easily getting 800-900k points in warzone , and both of of the A units have no sig weapons and pets , just 6 stars memories.

[@CheztaAhmad]

some A ranks are pretty strong man, but yeah, they are outshined by the S rank. ie. before feral 21 and alpha cw, liv lux is more than enough to support the old lightning meta-Bianca. Even when you got feral 21, if your dps is bianca, liv lux is only a slight worse option but much cheaper. When alpha cw is ur dps, then you will notice investing in feral 21 was worth it. Vera rozen is also a solid replacement for Selena Capricio, i have mine SSS+ purely by free blue cards. I am pretty late to begin my Capricio farm, thus she is only SS now. The difference between Rozen SSS+ and Capricio SS was not that far when my dps was Luna. Even with Lumia i feel like somewhat the same. But my Rozen has maxed her potential while Capricio can still grow, so thats the benefit of S rank.

[@squarebrain6714]

Recently I watched a few streams of people trying out PGR and the most distinctive thing that turned away those gacha players, other then bugs in early game, is the fact that PGR doesn't present itself as gacha. PGR doesn't try to create a honeymoon period where player is showered with gifts making player spin andf ge hooked on gacha. PGR litterally tells those new players "clear my content and you get this, this and this character. Here are the missions to do BTW". It makes play PGR like your regular game, rather then full "gacha game", where you just unlock new characters while progressing the game, 100% rate up in gacha literally screams about this. As for points made in video: - a new player you get 2 S ranks, one is from starting line up the second is up to Luna iirc. - Alisa + Ayla takes literaly 2 month sending commisions, for a player that just started, checked it at TW server some time ago. If you don't percive this as "gacha game" it's more like "complete quest X to make character Y join your party". - The thing about income in PGR is a funny thing. It may look like rewards are very low and insufficient, but when you combine all incomes from the patch you will get like 12-14k cards in A rank patch and 16-17k in S rank patch. Combine these 2 incomes and you get more currency then even needed for gacha. As about other "gacha games" from pre Genshin period it was the same as now. Some games like FGO, the king of gachas back in the days, was seen as unfair and the most predatory, while GI gaurantee system was seen as salvation from FGOs predatory, players knew little back then about GI true colors huh. On the other hand we had Kancolle and GFL as examples of the games which allergic to players money. Also battle events in PGR are kinda sucks for many people and are just "long with low rewards" for the reason that many people see then as the way to get currency facerolling with CW, while in reality these events are made in away you could try diferent characters and still clear them, even with Lotus.

[@hijodelsoldeoriente]

I agree with the last sentence. I actually love the combat events exactly because to me, they're just fun flex events where you try to get a gold trophy. And like you said, try other units. That's why if I can, I use non-meta units in rogue-likes. The combat is gun even for lower ranks. 😂 Couldn't be bothered with non-combat events though. Some are fun and I like that they're there but they're not my preference.

[@Atria.Arthuria]

I agree with PGR is gacha game, but not presented or feel like gacha game. This is why a lot of gacha game newcomer drop early. About BC incomes per patch. They give a small amount but through many ways/event. Player just doesn't realize it, just like you mentioned above.

[@lordgus615]

Honeymoon period for pgr players is the A rank banner runs or S rank but obtainable via dorm shop , those 2 allow me to collect enough for lamia + weapon sig

[@CheztaAhmad]

your last sentence made me think of when Rexlent beat Lilith with just Lucia Dawn. PGR boss fight is hard, but not so hard that you cant beat them with what you have at hand. Maybe you cant beat them now, but with some investments, time, and learning, you will beat them. I used to hate hetero hive mother boss in norman bcs i didnt understand her moveset and my character too weak to cover up my dumb gameplay. Now with the same exact character, i can beat her with like 2-3 retries. God I hope Qu Ice queen comes asap.

[@carloconsignado4065]

Its actually better to grind for character rather than spending in game currencies or even real cash for the characters you want. It makes PGR more of a "playing game" rather than a "intro-game" where, after the honeymoon phase of constantly receiving freebies at the start, you feel the tediousness of grinding after that so-called honeymoon phase. The thing with PGR is that it makes a more authentic, or should I say a playable game because you need to actually play the game to earn amazing rewards. I said amazing because these are not just your average standard/ outdated characters given for me; the freebies are actually the meta ones where you can bring these in hard contents and they help you clear these contents (Ayla Kaleido actually carries the Ice team while Alisa is a big upgrade from Liv Luminance as Alisa is the 1st physical amplifier and has an actual time-stop mechanic). All in all, this "free character system" by Kuro games is a big change in the gacha gaming space, wherein gacha games' reputation are predatory games, but Kuro us making a way for gacha games to be more "palatable or acceptable."

[@Atria.Arthuria]

It somewhat like a marriage. You have the early, post-honeymoon stage where everything is good. then the drought stage where it somewhat tedious and boring. Some even goes to cheat their partner. But, depends on how you face the drought stage, it became somewhat enjoyable and rewarding at the late stage.

[@unblockablelegoblock4839]

I don't mind grinding for the characters especially since most of them are pretty good but I suppose it depends on whether that grind is enjoyable. P.S: Wuwa's free character is also tied to the progress in the festival event so there is a bit of a grind involved there as well although the event and the free character is time limited so the grind is nothing compared to pgr

[@ddice626]

jokes on you, i fucking triple S'ed Vera: Rozen and Selena: Capriccio purely by farming.

[@Smorticle]

Nice! I'm just sitting here with my vouchers debating if I wanna put it into my Selena. Big dilemma I'm facing cuz I might want to put it into some other character, dunno rly.

[@ddice626]

@@Smorticle i was just a huge simp honestly, i zeroed in on them and farm them. didnt care about meta, didnt even "try hard" in end game LOL so yea, i just went and farm for them exclusively

[@Atria.Arthuria]

@@ddice626 eyy, fellow Selena enjoyer, I see. Selena is love, Selena is life.

[@Sanakan.safeguard]

F2P . 3 years player here ive got sSs selena dark too . and a lot of 6* weapons and most of S ranks meta characters

[@Istreakilaz]

Kneel brother Just did 3S Capprocio around 3 months ago as well (splitting voucher shards between Rosetta and Selena was pretty dumb to do in hindsight)

[@swordsmanmagi1370]

when Ayla: Kaleido release took me 3weeks to get her. & for alisa echo 1 day & for the free skin 2 weeks . btw the skin is gone you need to buy it with real $ ... i say this im ok with the grind as long as the reward are good sometime i even skip a event if the event takes to long to clear what i like about this i feel like my time that i spend in pgr is respected not like that ONE GAME

[@Nomimonyo]

Hell yeah, it's respected. You don't need to sit there, glued to your screen at all time. My time in PGR at most, it takes me around 45 mins to do. Dailies, about 5 or so mins. Events like 30 mins or so. Compare that to the amount of hours you have to the day... and that's VERY slim. Not only that, If I even try hard ( UPPC and Adv. Norman ) it can take less than an hour lol. So the generosity towards our time, is very nice.

[@darius8068]

also for voucher shop: if u bought the 20, able to buy more that character shards only without discount. so basicaly can sss a unit day1 with horrible price

[@carlovergts02]

I’m glad you made this video bro. After playing this game for 2 years I was starting to get sick of the grind. I’ve had my fun of it and wanted to start taking it more seriously, attempting to build the meta teams (or at least close to it) and an attempt to do better in WZ, PPC, and Guild Battle. However I’ve encountered an issue where I can never seem to have enough of anything to make my characters as strong as possible. I was in a constant dilemma, where it was either I needed to wait weeks and months for enough PPC skulls to get a character to SS (or SS3), trying to budget my limited BC to get the cubs/sig weapons for specific characters to boost teams overall, or making hard decisions/sacrifices to try to unfuck a past mistake I may have made. My advice to people coming in would be to know what you want before getting into the game. If you want to be a competitive F2P/whale then MAKE SURE you use every resource you get wisely. If you are in it for pure fun and just getting who you like to fuck around and do the bare minimum, then do that and commit to it. But if you’re like me, who started out just wanting to have fun and slowly transitioning to wanting to be capable of more and more, then you need to be prepared to play an endless game of catchup, and one that you may never finish

[@Smorticle]

I feel your pain man, I had to fight back against it by changing my mindset.

[@carlovergts02]

I agree bro, mindset plays a huge part. I think watching this vid showed me the good this game still does amongst all the bad, and at the end of the day, it’s really not that serious. I think playing ZZZ and Wuwa kinda spoiled me, cause for some reason it felt easier to build up characters to a functional level of aptitude compared to PGR, but there is also alot more that PGR still does that are generous too.

[@Mr.MoriartyXIII]

if you call 30 min max a day a lot of time then its a YOU problem especialy if its a GAME that you already enjoy and want to keep playing .

[@Smorticle]

Which is why I said, if you enjoy the game, right?

[@Sanakan.safeguard]

"shes the best physical amplifier " i mean she IS the only physical amp 😂.

[@hiteshmaurya9889]

in honkai impact you can grind old S rank straight up, and sometimes year old meta units.

[@Sanakan.safeguard]

really, how?i dont know much about honkai impact .🧐

[@benja9029]

@@Sanakan.safeguard ofcourse they won't say how haha just trust him bro

[@CheztaAhmad]

I do trust him, I played HI3 in the past, but yeah, the how part is may or may not be sketchy. The keyword here is old. You aint getting high ranking in Warzone and PPC related mode in HI3 with old meta. HI3 demands you to have meta to rank high for you to earn more crystal. More crystal means new meta coming in hot, in turn gives more crystals again. The endless cycle. Not that PGR doesnt demand you to have meta, it kinda does and does not. PPC and Warzone is not rank-based reward mode, its participation based.

[@HonkaiDaily]

​​​@@CheztaAhmadYour Comment applies to Hi3 Now with the release of Part 2 Valks which started early this year and have almost Completely Powercrept Part 1 Valks However for Part 1(Ended earlier this year) what the Op said was right, you could Grind Old Valks and use them for Meta Content, eg Herrscher of Reason, Herrscher of Thunder, Herrschers of Sentience, Fallen Rosemary etc. Despite How it looked the Game was(still kinda is for some) Generous which is part of the reason the whole "Genshin could Never" thing started, but Now Hi3 Players haven't really been saying that with how Part 2 has been going

[@HonkaiDaily]

​@@benja9029you can Grind them in Treasury and were given them for Free after close to 2 years just like PGR(which it's actually the other way round really) so No it's not a "just trust me bro" thing

[@Weirdos22146]

Honestly I don't mind the grind because it gives me a goal to achieve at least

[@Morkibay]

i have to correct you with the vouchers: they are always on the shop even after you bought 20 of them. the only thing the limit is for is the 20% off

[@Smorticle]

ah ty for the correction

[@Atria.Arthuria]

It's called Management Simulator or Management Gray Raven by some communities lol

[@Sanakan.safeguard]

This

[@LukePeiffer]

So, it takes time to play videogames. Thanks, I didnt know that.

[@liyan00]

It really does depend on how you play the game, as you mentioned. For me, I'm fine with a team that will do good enough. They are absolutely scuffed teams, but they get me through the content that I enjoy playing. (My most scuffed team is my dark team consisting of Karenina Scire, Vera Rozen, and Selena Capriccio. I got Selena on the 100% anniversary banner and she fixed my dark team so I can actually clear stuff so I'm skipping Lamia (a weird move, yes, but I don't like the underwater sound effect Lamia has)).

[@Smorticle]

Rip Fish D: To each their own I guess :)

[@peaceka]

I started on april from 0 since i lost my account, I have 3 fully built teams and 1 ongoing. and my current roster has 2 SSS, and multiple SS's it may cost my time, but my time is respected.

[@theskull3412]

Wuthering waves needs to learn to and copy pgr not genshin

[@Smorticle]

This is my dream. One can only hope...

[@theskull3412]

@@Smorticle I hope soon my friend,I really hope But now We can enjoy Lamia Man I can't wait for the FISUSSY

[@benja9029]

True

[@lordgus615]

The biggest advantage pgr has is that theres a huge gap between cn and global release , so you can plan your pulls much easier , add that to frequent reruns banner , it make pulling far less stressful for f2p/small spenders than other gacha games. Downside is that the CN players are relegated to the role of " beta testers" for global players

[@HonkaiDaily]

Another Down side is the One Year Gap can be discouraging for some as you may really want something but have to wait a year for it

[@nat-fs3ms]

grinding isnt a problem if its fun, and kuro knows how to make fun gameplay for the most part

[@ОсликИа-я2ы]

OK, so a perspective of a new player (started at Feral release, so only 3 updates in total): 1. Time IS a major problem in other games, HSR specifically. Even with auto it takes a fkton of time to get gear. ZZZ and Genshin are even worse. The only good one here is HI3 where you can farm full 3-set now in less than a month. Still not as good as PGR where you need like 4-5 days for full 6 pieces. That's why I quit Genshin, HSR, and after building 1 adequate team (to complete new main story in later updates) will leave ZZZ as well. 2. In PGR you don't need too many chars. I have fully built only Feral who doubles as main DPS. Her and Kaleido/Plume (with no resonance memories) and some trial chars already allow to just yolo Norman on easier difficulty (Regular Battle; 180 BC in total) or all but 2 last stages on high difficulty (200). With a lucky Stigmata pull on anniv banner and upcoming Lamia I will be able to clear it entirely. Same with PPC: built 1 strong team, use worse built teammates to clear lower difficulty and leave highest one for your built DPS. 2.5. Also Feral rules: shields, heals, damage, i-frames - QoL unreachable for CW. Other teammates are fine even at lvl 80 with unupgraded gear. Edit: 3. Being able to get all new chars is huge. HI3 was almost like that before (even if you had to skip some gear), but not anymore: not with crappy practice of a new S-rank every update in part 2. While in some Genshin/HSR/ZZZ/WuWa at one point you reach a state of "what's the difference between skipping 2 or 3 chars? fk it, not worth my time". 4. PGR's main problem is their designs are kinda mid. Like look at new fire Lucia: she has animations on par with HoFi who's already 1.5 years old, but HoFi has infinitely more memorable and colorful VFX comparing Lucia's very pale fire effects. I'd say, only WuWa is getting anywhere close MHY level of visuals with the likes of Jinhsi, Changli, or Yinlin. Not to mehtion all the male chars in PGR I can't even tell apart most of the time. The only other case like this I can remember is old Bronya battlesuits in HI3 because there were like 47512 of them.

[@Sanakan.safeguard]

agree ,more with the point 4 ,pgr designs lately are becoming crap .idk maybe kuro ran out of budget with wuwa .at least sound design and animations efects are still decent at best.but agree chars designs are becoming bad af.

[@Istreakilaz]

I feel you my man. HI3 really fell, it was my go to example for "what hoyo actually could be" As for point 4, it's more so that kuro is going all in on the flashy vfx. They might be a little confused. flashy vfw make a character pop out, when the character _already_ has a design that stands out. With PGR's grounded colour pallete (atleast when it comes to playable models, and not vn sprites), it looks a bit contrasting. Why it doesn't work as well. This ironically makes the A rank (after Bambinata) animations really impressive though, as they have a lot of noticeable animation going on, instead of slapping 40 different lightning sparks in front of your face, whenever you do something (looking at you, Qu Shukra, S Hanying and Lucia Pyroath.. why is it always you three?)

[@CheztaAhmad]

oh hi, you played HI3 too? Same here. I hate the game for forcing me to hate meta units in such a quick time. I played a while back, and back then Miko was meta, spend 6 months pimping her and the gang up, got powercrept a few months later. Fucking shit man. But ngl they are better with the visuals. to credit Rexlent, PGR likes their twintail and doom and gloom appearance (black and white).

[@CheztaAhmad]

@@Istreakilaz I like Bambinata moveset so much that I built her decently despite she is never my meta ice team pick. Sometimes i just play her for the sake of having fun.

[@Istreakilaz]

@@CheztaAhmad me with every A rank and Uns. it's a net income loss to get and build them, but it's really fun to bench your meta units an bring them out in the contents where leaderboard doesn't matter (babel, guild siege, strongholds, roguelike, norman or even just co-op)

[@MgMg-mn5qs]

Is it hard to grind SSS in PGR? For, WW, I think to get 6 copy, it might take a year for f2p players.

[@Sanakan.safeguard]

For A ranks no ,for S ranks yes ,im F2P my only sSs (S rank) is selena capricio (the dark amplifier) and in ~2 months ill have enough vouchers to sSs Alisa Eco. ive played for 3 years if you wonder.🧐👍

[@wojtek7779]

0:25 ascendant queen is only alpha -,-

[@shikanaga6081]

Oh no.... BBS...

[@Smorticle]

It's a fever dream lol.

[@spartan_mib_spartan4187]

2:30 FISH !!! (I m sorry for my Immaturity)

[@topdanielunlimited5342]

Speaking of "Accumulating over time". I managed to get every Frame since they released (the only ones Im missing are S ranks from when the game first started, and even then it's like 1, I think. Anyway, Once Lamia released, I went to summon for her and my Jaw dropped when I saw that, besides the 50k Black Cards I have saved, I also had like 20k Gold Event Cards. I have no idea where or how I got that many, but I did. So yeah, things to start stacking up as you get to the endgame. Especially if you get lucky with some of the Frame Pulls and get them fast, you get to save even more. Of course, that is if you don't really care about being the best. I only pull enough to get the character and their weapon and then get them to SS with the fragments from the shop.

[@KePzez]

Tell that to my 80k pull tickets

[@PandaStyle07]

If every single gacha in existence had PGR's systems, free characters, the A rank banners and A rank dupes, and free S rank dupes, I'd be elated beyond the moon, and anyone with a brain would be too

[@CheztaAhmad]

yeah, we want this, but companies mostly dont. Look at how pale PGR sales is compared to say, Genshin or a more similar game like Hi3. We know which is the more pleasant and generous but companies dont like it when we dont spend money. But they dont realize that games like Azur Lane also exist. If greedy companies like hoyo just stop being greedy and apply PGR's systems, keep their character design, apply AL skins move, its really gonna pleasure both sides.

[@wojtek7779]

Nothing is truly free in life and games

[@Tigrion]

O sweet sweet summer children all gatcha games prior 2016 non had any pity system you can legit throw 300+ summons and never get a 5* or SSR+ unite Summoners Wars/ E7 are once i played that later 3 years down E7's life cycle they introduced the 120 pity banners.Still remember that one banner of Aramentha that took me 360 pulls to get her heard stories of 600ish pulls of some very unlucky people. FGO being one of the worst as you simply could not farm freemojems in game for the limited banners where for a few years you could only buy those unites for real money. That being the prime reaon FGO was banned from the app store in many EU countries my own included. To even play the USA server had to go thou 3rd party app stores just to find the game to install it on emulator as the phone could not find it. Granted the 50/50 garbage is pretty bad as well from Hoyo that standardized that shit in 2021 with Genshin. But over all the market prior Genshin from around 2016 to 2020 was 120ish pulls grantee the premium unite. The thing about Kuros PGR is if you play it moderately you grantee yourself on every new S rank witch is every 2nd big patch to have the 60 pulls ready for the max pity if you have to hit it every time being 15000 BC to get that unite and have fun with it no 50/50 garbage and if lucky can get it earlier that's it and can have left over to try for the weapon or pet. Every char in SS has its kit fully unlocked having to go SSS+ is only whale territory for Hoyo people that's having +2 over constellations to C6 if you so much like to compete with whales for the top scores for Phantom Cage mode that doesn't really give you much more resources compared to keeping stuff at SS and just enjoy the game and score what ever score you can with your build teams.

[@Smorticle]

This makes me want to explore the pre genshin gacha games but they sound scary af

[@Tigrion]

@@Smorticle Its probably better that way. Honestly to be fair most of them have adapted some sort of pity mechanic now a days even FGO took them till 11/21/2022 to have a pity as well and its still garbage 330 pulls holly xD not sure about Summoners Wars E7 has a 120 and the banners are solo meaning if you get a 5* its the limited one 100% no shared bs for the others i used to play can't tell. Been keeping to HI3rd HSR PGR and Wuwa lately and will be dropping HI3rd as p2 story is simply meh at best. Might revisit Genshin when Natlan comes back Fontain was fun for the first few patches.

[@Istreakilaz]

Genshin was both a blessing and a curse to a gacha as a whole... It brought a much needed attention into the market (although the morality of making virtual gambling popular... that i'll let you be the judge of) But it also showcased that to need to actually bring that attention, you needed to go full corpo mode. I miss when HI3 used to be one of the games people used as a scale...

[@Tigrion]

@@Istreakilaz Yea i totally agree. Gatcha are essentially gambling simulators for the pulls no doubt about that one. To be fair thou the gaming market itself shifted over the past 10 years so much into the life service model with there over aggressive selling of micro transactions with loot boxes that are absolutely gambling as well and battle passes people unfortunately are just too used to spend reticulated amount of money on digital goods in this games now a day.

[@eijey9803]

Even the stickers/stamps ain't free, you have to take it by force 😂

[@lemonsquishy197]

So your point is: - kuro gives free stuff = Sus - most gacha don't = fine You say the new player experience ain't that smooth despite the freebies, then I challenge you to give the names of 10 or even 5 gacha/live service where the new player experience is smooth, 2~3 years into its life cycle, without the need for time or money to catch-up with veterans You say "only x pulls from y event" sure, but you didn't say how much BC the free Alisa (or any character) would amount to if one has to do the 60 pulls instead for example. For a video claimed to bring "more nuances " to kuro's generosity, you're focusing on how sus it is and overlook other things, that's quite ironic. On top of saying that if we don't want to pay we have to play. I don't know a lot of gacha where is not the case, why even start the game, if the goal isn't to play? So the big difference with other gacha is that kuro is giving us free stuff. It's as if you'd rather want to get nothing at all, since if there's no freebies, there's no caveat lol This is the first video from you I've watched but I think "smearticle" would be a more fitting name so far. I'm baffled, people really find problems where they want to see them. PGR made less than stellar revenue for the longest time, we still had free stuff, then kuro blew up with wuwa, we still got free stuff, but somehow it's seemingly not as generous as we thought. Well duh, we're talking gacha, it's supposed to make money. But I guess it's alright when billions worth companies don't give anything but when smaller companies give freebies, "omg there are strings attached".... Edit: I mean your point makes sense tho, if the companies don't give us anything, we can't blame them for their generosity and the strings attached. Imagine a game company doing things for player retention, oh God, how dare they But I guess you'd rather get nothing at all so you can't blame them for the attached strings. And the title "the truth" I guess you're also secretly a kuro employee or got your source from one? I find haters less toxic than your roundabout way to "warn" people from kuro's "semi-deceptive" generosity

[@Smorticle]

Uh, as I understand this is my first video you watched. Thing is, this video is basically a follow-up from my last PGR video where I do talk about the things that you say I don't talk about in this video. The purpose is this one is to add layers that I missed from my last one. Tbh, kinda my fault for not directly pointing to the video I made before, but I felt that I didn't need to repeat what I said in the last one, it's a bit tiring. Hope you understand. That said, I think it'd be unfair to ask you to watch the other one if you didn't like this video. It's fine. I will say to your point about the new player experience not being smooth n all that. Just because it isn't smooth doesn't mean, we shouldn't point out that it isn't. I don't think that's something we should accept because everyone else has the same problem. Also the point about the new player experience came from my last video where I spoke from the perspective of a veteran considering, I didn't really talk about the grind it takes to build up from scratch. It's kinda why I made this video in the first place because I didn't want people to assume that they just get in and get a free character off the rip. Again, context does go a long way. As for most gachas not being generous, being fine, don't think I made that point..... unless something is being misunderstood. I did mention Hoyo and how they normalized their stingy practices, but I don't think I shone that in a good light. It was alluding to the problematic influence it has on games like WuWa or even Snowbreak for that matter.

[@lemonsquishy197]

@@Smorticle You can complain about the new player experience being not smooth all you want, but then offer some ideas. How would you solve it, in a way that both doesn't overload new players with too many things and not make veterans feel "scammed" for starting years earlier? It's not ideal but investing more time into the game, aka playing the game, is still the most sensible solution. It's unreasonable for new players to expect to jump into a live service years after launch and expect the same experience than veterans, just as much as for veterans to expect new player to experience/progress the game the way they did. My problem isn't you're pointing out it's not as smooth as you'd want it to be, but the fact it's as relevant as saying every live services have a cash shop, in other words, completely irrelevant. The problem is far more deeply rooted in the business model, yet you chose to criticise this point that's not specific to kuro's games, you barely scratched the surface of the issue, you offer no realistic ideas that could start fixing the issue yet you title your video " The TRUTH behind kuro's generosity" aka all about kuro despite not talking about a kuro specific issue. I've yet to see any truth that's above captain obvious level, well I finished watching your whole video so obviously there isn't such a thing. You neither address the issue or bring any nuance to the topic. I didn't say you shined stinginess in a good light. You seem to have a problem with kuro's generosity because it's not 100% out of goodwill. Which means a lot of other companies won't have this issue, from your pov, since they're not generous. And you completely skipped my point, but I'll reiterate it one last time: They were already generous when they only had PGR that barely made any money. Now that they have wuwa that blew up, they're still being generous. I'll dumb it down further - kuro makes little money but give freebies - kuro makes a lot money now, still gives freebies Yet you complain it's an issue because it's not 100% out goodwill, since above 50% out of goodwill is still not good enough for you, but considering they always did what they did what they do. Of course freebies are also a marketing move, anyone with 2 connected neurons can tell as much. In the end, while it makes less money shorter term, it's still beneficial for the company that earns players' respect and the players get more free things. I bet you'd complain even if they give you all the units for free for the new players. You'd call it "The REAL TRUTH about kuro's generosity" and blame them for trying to hook in the new players. So tell me more about the problematic influence then. Elaborate on how mihomo's stinginess affected wuwa and snowbreak, besides the character banner gacha.

[@Smorticle]

@@lemonsquishy197 Mmm I'm starting to think you have a big issue with my click baity title. (Alternative title was going to be "The Cost of 'Free' in PGR", like the thumbnail, couldn't decide on a title) Cuz the point of this video is to actually detail what it actually takes to get the free stuff and the amount of rewards we get within a patch. Whole purpose is to reel back the hype that I was expressing in my last PGR video because I was like yelling to the mountaintops that "Kuro is a god tier game with god tier generosity, don't miss out". I don't have an issue with Kuro's generosity not being 100% out of goodwill, just being captain obvious that it isn't, all there is to it. For the most part, I'm agreeing with you about the fact that they're generous in PGR regardless of the circumstances which is probably why I'm confused about this whole argument we're having. I mean, I'm still thinking about changing the name because perhaps it's misleading. I'm just trying to remedy the high expectations I drew from the previous video, again, I needed to reel back the hype.

[@lemonsquishy197]

​​@@Smorticle"Misleading"? It's straight up a lie lol, it's your opinion at most and yeah I have a thing against untruthful titles and people who skip points they can't argue against. Don't worry it'll be the last time you'll see me in the comment section of any of your videos. I wasted enough time considering you don't want to really to most of the points I bring up.

[@Smorticle]

​@@lemonsquishy197Well thank you regardless. Wanted to see where your concerns are at that's all. Though lemme leave you with this: Point of this video - 1. Add layers to the stuff I talked about in the last PGR video which were that as much as I mentioned that all of these things are free, you have to spend a lot of time and investment to obtain them. You can't get them off the rip, so how do you really obtain them? What's does it cost? 2. Providing a general idea of what you'd get within a patch cycle, even through the anniversary. Even though it may seem small, if you play almost every day, you'll still might be able to snag the latest character when they debut. But for some people, that might be a difficult ask. 3. When I used free last video, I felt like I was mischaracterizing what the offerings really were and was caught up in the hype. I suggested that perhaps I shouldn't be using the term "free" but instead "earnable" because that's a more accurate term. Does it mean it's bad? No, it's about the mindset. 4. Speaking of mindset, I'm always on the side of cautious optimism. Don't do what I did earlier and go crazy with they hype because we're in global and we're still experiencing the pre WuWa days as CN has gone through this. Kuro seemed to have tested the waters with their gacha system in WuWa that is closely mirroring Hoyo's shit gacha system, and I absolutely cannot get behind that. Is it unreasonable to ask for them to change that system into PGR's system? I think it is, to me, these things are nonnegotiable as lamentable as that may be. All the more reason why I say to have cautious optimism because anything can turn at a dime. Does this lower my view of Kuro? No, I still think they're the best amongst all others in the gacha space, I simply have my own concerns that maybe others don't have. Does that mean they're not generous because 30% of it isn't out of goodwill? No. Does that make them an evil company? No. Does it make them a problem? Also no. Again, I'm proposing that perhaps we should still exercise cautious optimism, that's all. If you want to bat for Kuro, hey man, I am all for it! I'm just saying that it's okay to take a step back every once in a while. Now to the point of complaining about the new player experience. The only thing I mentioned in this video about the new player experience is that the perspective of a new player is different from a veteran because in the last video, I spoke from the perspective of a veteran considering how I'm just able to snag most of the characters that pop out off the rip and say "well it's free!" When in reality, a new player might not get Alisa that easily as the dorm commission system takes a lot of time. So my feelings about the new player experience is mostly irrelevant as far as this video goes. However, since you're keen on wanting me to address this, I will say that in a previous video I made, I did talk about the new player experience not being a little on the boring side. My suggestion in terms of a solution was based on my experience going through the early game. I trudged through the early game because I knew ahead of time what the promised land would be like in terms of gameplay. I would want them to move up the gameplay of PGR to the early game. A good instance of this, and I'll bet controversial, is the Alpha fight. Instead of playing as Lucia getting shit on by Alpha, perhaps they could flip it and have it be that you get to play as Alpha to shit on Lucia to tease the creativity of their core passive system. Especially, after coming off the heels of learning what Lucia's Lotus' core passive can do. A teaser of "Hey! You can get this! Look forward to it!" They could also update the visuals a bit to look more interesting, add more dynamic gameplay mechanics than just protecting a totem or wotnot which weaves story points into gameplay because as it is right now, it's just a linear playground to get to the finish line. They could also update the gameplay of Iron Maiden and Roland from the hidden stories cuz it's pretty rough. Lots of things they can do that I can't list them all. For character focal missions, have us be able to play those characters in their trial version with their leap skills active (if they have them) to push that motivation forward, not only in terms of what's for the future but to push the player to want to upgrade their own character. As for the story, I wouldn't change a thing because all of the overloading jargon and exposition is necessary for the epic payoff. If I had to fix one thing, update some of the sprites. They're shaded out or empty because they never existed prior to the patch, but now that they do, it'd be cool if they went back and updated it. I could go on, but again, tiring to keep going at it because I would talk about stuff from chapter to chapter. I will say that they do deserve praise for the 2 selectors that they give us starting out and the mentor system. That stuff is top tier, no notes. But again, for this specific video, completely irrelevant to the points I'm making. Now you have an issue with my title. I agree, not the best title I could come up with. So I changed it. Thanks.

[@thisjizz8895]

Sooo.... What's exactly the issue here?

[@Smorticle]

There's no issue, just play the game c:

[@_-K1LL3RK1tT3N-_]

It didn't take me that long to get the characters i wanted i started in the middle of Ayla's patch and by the time CW came out i got her full kit, with sig and cub as well as full memory set, though yes it might seem long since it's half a month after all but during those days as a beginner you get a lot of free selectors lol so you never get bored even though the story in the beginning is bootycheeks, after all of that it's just a breeze because the game got better and better, i did quit before feral came out though because i focused on other things, if I didn't quit id have ss3 CW and a butt load of BC saved up for Lamia and Qu Shukra.

[@_-K1LL3RK1tT3N-_]

Well.... Maybe it's because i had no life at the time so i just grinded the game like 8 hours every day because as a beginner you get a whole lot of free serum

[@hollowficate]

I swear other gacha game gonna get shit on if they got the same kind of reward as PGR anni.

[@yurika-rie]

Free character with free vfx skin that looks good? Yeah pgr ani so bad 🙁

[@Smorticle]

I think this anni was great. Don't think I was actually shitting on it rly. Just trying to temper expectations is all, cuz I think I gased the game a bit too hard in the last video.

[@Apocalypse90995]

PGR is a weekly game for rewards.. 2 hours playing per day is enough .... but hard if you want to play coop event ... Especially Europe server

[@Eitya]

You should force yourself to use "earnable" instead of "free" when you're thinking of those things in my opinion, because we all have limited time, and you can't buy it back, it's the only ressource that is invaluable for oneself, which of course you can buy others time through employment, but doesn't work for gacha or else break T.O.S

[@Istreakilaz]

I'm extremely glad that you made this video, because ...yeah, i've seen enough people approach PGR (not always due to WW) and get turned off by the timesink needed to get to the good part. Yet i do think there are some even more nuances left out of this breakdown video: - Probably the only real disagreement i have. The S rank patches being spaced out * just enough * so you can guarantee them, is more of a Global server issue, than anything else. They aren't always forcing you to be on your toes, it's happening because Kuro is still attempting for Global server to slowly catchup with CN, slowly but surely. For context, the average patch length for CN is around 44-49 Days (6.3-7 weeks), meanwhile Global server is around 36-42 Days (5.1-6 weeks). And i say average, because we still do get patches that are 42 days and very rarely 49 days. But that is pretty much the norm. The server progress goes from CN > TW > JP > KR > EN, and Kuro is attempting to make EVERY one of them catch up slowly, by cutting some of the average patch length from each servers. The farther the server, the more they cut, while trying to not ruin the income economy. The Pull income is in fact a bit more generous (1.2 weeks of income only accounts for around 5 pulls, but it is what it is, and it definitely adds up over the patches). It's really just Kuro trying something commendable (catchup tactics in the gacha sphere is very divisive), but we are slightly suffering as a result for it. That's really the extent - it's not a real disagreement, but i do want to highlight that Kuro makes an attempt to ease the player's grind. Within the next year, we'll be getting a serum capacity boost, removal of the pesky 2 login dorm dispatch needs, dorm autopats, WarZone and PPC Reworks, Farming currency being made universal (no more needing to stock up serum before patch change), 2nd ui rework which allows for easier memory resonating and hypertunes, Norman mine rework with better autoclears, leap mat cost conversion readjustment, and funniest of all, scrapping of the star-based reward system from story combat stages. This on top of the stuff we already just got recently, like reworked PPC income, autoclear changes, removal of serum cost from story combat stages, amongst various other things, really should tell you that Kuro is still trying to fix the early game slog. Atleast that effort warrants attention. Me having experienced several gachas, both old and new, and PGR somehow makes me feel that the QoL is much more regular and like.. actually useful (most of the time), than like 80% of the gacha i have played so far. - [EDIT] I forgot to address this point too. A Ranks have picked up a lot as well, so they are not really a transitory unit anymore. Starting from Bambinata, every A rank except for BRS, have been pretty relevant to the gameplay. BRS is somewhat understandable, given she is a limited unit, her being more fun to play than actually meta usable. Bambi, Noctis, Bridget and (in 3 hours from writing this) Yata provides a much needed alternative to an S rank, that doesn't suck and actually can work quite well even. Meanwhile Teddy and Hanying straight up can output S rank levels of value (provided you learn how to play them and also invest in them first, SSS rank and full HT minimum requirement). These two are extremely dominant on siege mode and even show up on Warzone rankings, so they can't be underestimated, moreso Teddy, she can be a monster. Plus there is always the two ol' reliable, Liv Lux and Lee Palefire, the latter which requires leap but comes close to a underdeveloped S rank level. And there are some occasional goofballs made by Kuro, where A ranks end up outperforming specific S ranks in certain modes... atleast for a week, until Kuro fixes the number bugs, example being Liv Eclipse being used in place for Alisa Echo in Warzone in some crazy optimization strats, during the first week of S Hanying release (there's your random CN trivia for the day lol) - I want to address the reason why Kuro makes it a habit of giving measly 250 pulls over several small events. It's because they had received feedback from the community back in the heydays, which were complaints about being unable to complete certain gamemodes (either due to technical bugs, bad roster, or just skillissue), leading to a substantial loss in potential currency income. Kuro took that feedback to heart, and made sure to distribute their earnings to small minigames in low amounts. The purpose of this is so that even if you cannot complete one event (or even start it, or just lazy to do it).. the loss you will be having wont be as substantial. So they are catering the players in this double edged sword way. You can potentially skip out on a low income minigame because you dont like it or just tedious to do, as it involves spending a fair amount (or at times, excessive of) your time for it. In exchange, you wont lose a lot of income as a result, so the loss in income is more or less you just not engaging with the content, as opposed to being literally unable to engage due to various reasons (though unfortunately, Kuro in recent years have gotten quirky with the Sticker rewards, and these are permanently missable and usually locked partway completion of these events so..... yeah, if you still care for the cosmetic stuff, yep you need to engage) - I have to highlight that, gachas were not objectively generous before the Hoyo epidemic (i would know, i started with FGO) and it's ironic that you bring up Hoyo's practices having influenced the market... because while it's actually somewhat true (they really did shine the limelight onto the gacha industry as a whole with genshin afterall), This wasn't actually the case with their first really big game, Honkai Impact 3rd. A game that i have -mixed feelings on now- experience with, and it pretty much was in fact, 'generous enough'. And most ironic of them all, PGR used HI3 as it's blueprint, so Kurogames pretty much took inspiration from the company that would later turn into more corporate greed, but they themselves still resist the influence. Honestly, my real gripe with PGR is the early-game. It righteously is a bit insufferable to experience, despite the attempts they do to polish it up over the years. My consistent advice to interested players have always been "Stick around for 2-3 Months. See if you still want to keep playing during that time. It's a long time investment, but i assure you, the wall of boredom will disappear starting month 4, and then you should make your real final verdict, if you want to actually stick with this game or not"

[@Sanakan.safeguard]

4:30 thats it🧐👍PGR is a game that rewards more,the more you play it not the other way around as most gacha do like genshin,hsr,honkai3,ToF, Snowbreak and other rpg

[@lag4375]

long story short they knew they have to inject players with free stuff to keep up with the game, since the whale ceiling is so high they need to keep the f2p up to par to keep the ecosystem going that said PGR really rewards your time and investment once you made a well built team, and the premium currency rate can be seen as generous if you know which pack to buy between like 20 every patch lmao

[@jaredtew3302]

the end game never ends, so thats why it doesn't feel suffocating if a f2p player cant get to those high ranks, because u already know as f2p you cant get there, but the minimum rewards like black cards are easily obtainable. unlike in hsr, u need to clear the endgame, with the minimum score needed for max rewards is the score that is implanted into every players mind. The endgame in hsr feels like a goal, but it feels like a goal everyone can reach to the point that if u don't reach it it feels suffocating af. so that's the difference. one emphasizes on actually getting the characters u like, while not mattering if u reach high ranks because its always enough to get the max rewards, while one focuses on long term planning and extraordinary luck to get those characters + get good builds with them, while also considering that sometimes the endgame isn't made for them

[@ZaddyYhan]

Time, Well Sonny it's time to play the Game. -HHH. Honestly my plan is simple (6 day btw and I'm Level 56) : Physical Team: Bianca Stigama, Alias, Hanying DarkTeam: Luna Laurel, Vera Rozen, Kamui. Characters I NEED upcoming 2024-25 : ICE Team. 1. Alya Big TD Girl. [dorm free] 2. Qu Shukra 3. Wanhsi Lucid Dreamer [free] NIHIL/dark Team 1.Teddy Decryptor [free] 2. Luna Oblivion Physical team 1.Alias (dorm free)

[@najmifarhan6052]

Love the video

[@disins5521]

I feel like this could be best described as Schrodinger's free character because it's through effort rather than given away(which most say is free cuz they already play the game hence the wording)

[@Written_in_the_Starss]

Generosity with a catch.

[@kaka09876543210]

Genshin stinginess is anomalies on gacha space. On version 5 they gave player the norms amount of free stuff like other gacha game because this year lots of genshin competitor is on beta after release of wuwa. This weeks the mihoyo CEO laptops also robbed, Curious will they leak something on the laptops.

[@mosesnyper]

Nice edits might have to borrow some 😊

[@Shimat120]

I love that BA OST

[@sirmeowmeow7319]

set boundaries like i do. im f2p so im limited with my resources so i decided: to only pull female characters only pull attackers pull for their weapon and cub it doesn't feel right to me seeing the character that i use a lot not fully equipped. i dont care about the tanks/supps/amps. they are qte bots to me. im not aiming to become top 10 player anyway since its whale territory

[@artOVtrolling]

But amplifiers are crazy important. They tend to compete with attacker DPS as well as providing buffs to the whole team. You do you.

[@sirmeowmeow7319]

@@artOVtrolling i know but im not gonna use BC to pull them. theres amps in dorm shop who is free anyways

[@FunZenCh]

Im f2p too but skip all construct sign weapon and aiming for all skins gacha 😂 i guess we have diff mindset lol, dw i still got all the bc from weekly

[@sirmeowmeow7319]

@@FunZenCh i wanna do that too but skin is expensive

[@nameless4635]

For me it was now the opposite. I started to dislike gen 2 attackers so now I'm using heavy invested Amp and skip attackers. Alisa is close to sss now. Will also plan to heavy invest on a ranks.

[@KatsuRaiden]

i feel like the only problem with pgr progression is that in endgame you really quickly hitting a cap of how much stronger your character can be, and this cap is not always enough to clear like highest norman or to retain ranks in warzone somethimes. And some characters are just feeling straight up incomplete without sig/SS/SSS ranks, with is understandable as it is a gacha game so there is needed some insentive to roll on a banner after all. Overall if you compare PGR to HSR and Genshin i would say that PGR endgame progression and farming is much less frustraiting as you know that you get your powerup like in a month or two, and you know that you get every new character if you save, where in hoyo games you can farm for artifacts for your entire life just to have 0 crit on artifacts and lose 50/50.

[@tatarigami-no-kami]

We all know tacet truth, we can skip all events and do weekly to gacha characters

[@riaz608]

I think you should also consider how the lategame player plays the game.

[@magallanthepenguin9132]

Yeah, forgot people used fo struggle to get character xp and weapon materials. I always buy the monthly bc cards. And rarely buy BP...got so much overflowing materials. Same with genshin. I never had a mora problem even at launch

[@snoopdoge7269]

Crystal generation.

[@beansbrat5747]

Unlce is my queen

[@jonmanilenio]

It costs WAY TOO MUCH TIME! And base characters are A$$. Now I'm thinking of ditching PGR and trying out snowbreak.

[@Sanakan.safeguard]

agree with the time part. and agree with the base chars part too.

[@brucealmighty5881]

Too much time? Gatcha games are the wrong genre then no offense 5 minutes a day or less for my dailies in pgr, and then maybe another 20 minutes twice a week for the weeklies and I can pull all characters I'm not exactly sure what gatcha game anyone is expecting to cost them less time and guarantee them every single S rank(5 star) character I've played most gatcha games on the market and none have respected my time as much as pgr

[@god7762]

There is no such thing as free you only spent your currency is time in this because once the time is gone this time will never came back

[@soimpressivesodogetothemoo8027]

with 1 hour playing daily i do pgr wuwa and zzz dailies

[@Marceloco01]

Just a yapping video telling u gonna die while getting ur Unit, like ure not dying just by breathing

[@ChuinYih]

I don't actually believe that gacha games were more generous before genshin impact, thinking back to summoners war, FGO, GBF those were major money sinks which probably is the standard for most gacha games of the time with the exception of something like priconne that showered players with premium currency in the form of gifts. I remember when Azurlane launched, people were praising to high heaven that it is a true f2p gacha that was essentially a day job if you wanted meta characters and builds. Gacha was, is, and will be a predatory and expensive genre/monetization of games, if not for your wallet then for your time. I was hoping priconne could prove that gachas can be sustainable without being time or/and money sinks, but that dream died when cruchyroll shutdown global servers. I understand that people will want to play gachas, heck i still do albeit with a lot more caution and awareness of what the game is getting me to do, it is quite scary to think that more games would adapt gacha mechanics while gacha games expand into other game genres and hidden-in-plain-sight-gambling with complicated microtransections will be the norm for gaming in the near future.

[@BladeSerph]

If we had to talk layers of generosity, i would say Guardian tales had a somewhat good design on the character acquistion, but when you needed to chase weapon dupes and farm the resources to upgrade them, it becomes a murder-hobo of annoyance to why i havent dragged myself back to it a third time yet. Another Eden likely came out around the same time as Genshin and was definitely sluggish but rather good because of its rather simple premise even if game mechanics got more complicated, it totally fked itself over when it introduced Stellar Awakens and made it where you have to pull a character on a VERY SPECIFIC BANNER that is significantly shorter then how they originally did it and made it require a retarded amount of extra grind and even gacha for duplicates of the character just to get it to `good value` with the rather broken additional stuff, which even if they slowly introduced more `older` characters to the stellar awaken system, the fact it can take as much as TWO TO THREE MONTHS, just to unlock a stellar awaken of a character (usually because you can only get 2 stellar charts a month and you need 3 of them to awaken a character and its only if you OWN the character before hand you get a freebie, but still needing 2 charts you can only get in a month without SPENDING MONEY, when 2 new characters are introduced each month, in addition to sometimes giving an SAwakening to older characters was just beyond stupidly greedy). Mobius final fantasy also was `sort of`, nice because despite being basically full f2p for that game back in the day it was not too hard to keep up with the game and get limited banner ability cards and classes, especially since its SUPREME job & card system worked by randomly rainbow procing as a bonus card on ANY banner in general. Overall though, Gacha games dont have a `proper bar` on what is considered good game design practices and its because the Monopoly standing in place so long (Genshin), that its lead to the belief that gacha should be X generous and no other game can be more generous then that, unless its clearly planning to be a scam. Moral of the story: Genshin-addicts are literally the equilvency of Abused animals that soon as someone offers a helping hand to them, they mis-inteprete it as a fist to harm them again and are unable to realize they are about to get the best scritchies they never have been given before, ever.

[@Istreakilaz]

Honestly, the only games that comes to my mind as "came out before genshin did, and raised some eyebrows by having more of a earn-your-rewards mentality, than whaling", were like Kancolle and Dokkan. Probably throw Priconne and GFL in there too, as both slowly dripfed you in a noticeable chunk of currency, but you just needed to keep constantly playing to get them. Sadly, llike 2/4 of these games are pretty time consuming (or just outright simple/boring to play, in the case of dokkan) -I myself only played Kancolle and like... a month of Dokkan. The other two i heard from the overlapping communities fairly often though, especially GFL-

[@CheztaAhmad]

My gacha history was HI3, Azur Lane, GFL, Blue Archive, Arknights, and PGR. There are 2 more games that I played and spent some money on, but they are so shit that I dont even remember the name anymore. Those 6 games are the ones that I played to a decent amount of time. Amongst them, in the chart of generosity compared to each other, I'd say it goes like this: High: Azur Lane, PGR, GFL Mid: Blue Archive, Arknights Low: HI3 The details are in the replies.

[@CheztaAhmad]

Azur Lane (AL) is the most generous gacha game I have ever played. It literally giving you like 3 pulls per day. I no longer played the game, but it was for a different reason. I played the game like for 3 years, and I have never missed a single SSR. The money i spent here all goes to skins and rings (you can marry the waifus). PGR is as the video said, pretty generous. Similar to AL, i have never missed one S rank (except Karenina bcs I was busy IRL at that time). Although PGR is the worst in this bracket, I dare to say PGR and Kuro in general is more generous than Hoyo and even Yostar to a degree. Similar to AL again, I am only a light spender in the game, and I do it mostly for monthly cards and skins. GFL is rivalling AL as my most generous gacha game. I dont remember I ever spend money to pull in this game. I remember I did use money twice, both for skins. Sadly, I no longer play the game. I wish I have more time to play GFL and AL. Blue Archive (BA) is not that generous but not that bad either. BA is just mid, it gives me enough to have some pulls and saving for a certain banner, but I certainly did not have the same leniency compared to the previous 3 games. I couldnt just wildly gamble to get a character I kinda want bcs I was saving for a certain banner. But all in all, it allows me to have some of my favorite waifus thus its decent. I didnt continue playing bcs again, i have no time. Arknights (AK) is kinda similar to BA. They are generous but nothing compared to the top 3, I do have some leniency, but I achieve this after like 1.5-2 years playing the game and some ups and downs in the gacha luck. Im now at the endgame, and when you do hit that, you might have 100-150ish pulls lying around for you to wildly gamble in some banner. I spent money to pulls and buy skins too in this game. AK is like a gradual shift from a struggling new player with so many units to get, to endgame player with only having to pull new characters. I did managed to obtain all 6* in the game, except that one damn special collab 6*. HI3 is so bad. They are okay-ish in generosity, but I feel like the game is designed to make me pull more and more and more. In contrast to AK gradually getting better, I get worse in HI3. I bought monthly cards every single month when i played this game. TBF, I stopped playing at the 1st Fu Hua update, so idk if this has changed. Abyss (i think?) game mode, similar to Warzone, force you to rank better bcs the reward is based on rank, not participation. The reward is the crystal (similar to black cards in PGR). Another gamemode, similar to PPC in PGR, is also kinda shit bcs unlike PPC, rank also matters alot more. PPC rank only affects how fast you obtain skulls. Hoyo is kinda generous enough to help give some crystals here and there but the amount is similar to Kuro with PGR. Hoyo did it better bcs they didnt force you to play alot of fights for 1 single pull. Again, it was way back then so idk if it has changed. I was and still am really disappointed with HI3 that I will never touch anything Hoyo made again.

[@CheztaAhmad]

oh another thing to note about HI3, their powercrept timing is worse than PGR. I hate powercrept in any shape of form, but when it happens quicker, its even more annoying. ie. I saved 6 months of maxing out Creature Miko only to get powercrept few months later. Same with her Ice form, the blue icon type Miko, powercrept by fu hua later on before i get a chance to fully built her and her team. In AL, AK, or GFL, powercrept exist too, but there are so many alternatives to it. AL has hundreds of ships, AK is somewhat similar but not that many, GFL is so f2p and generous that you can just get that powercreeping unit easily.

[@dann8529]

Wth? 6,1k views with no like? Is this a bug?

[@nerospapa8814]

What is gacha game if you can just sell skins like a hotcake. - PGR and Azur Lane.

[@Bullminator]

Going to old gatcha games is pointless. You missed out on so much free crap that is not even funny. I see people joining genshit and they quit realy fast when they see how anoying abyss got in years. Wuwa at least right now still has a good start, but year or 2 later is gona be pain for new players for sure. Gatcha due to how they are designed have a limited time on market. Heck you can join any old gatcha game and they can shut down tommorow, making you lose all the progress you did there and for some people it must suck pretty bad. What i recomend is to look for private servers for some gatcha games there that have full unlocks on characters. Heck i strongly recomend this for mihoyo games (because f them greedy).

[@Smorticle]

Do you have any pointers to where we can find those private servers?

[@Bullminator]

@@Smorticle 1.st dont use google to search, but other site and also use keywords private, game name, server. KZbin loves deleting my comments so i cant give any links XD Not every game has those, but genshin one has 100% existing one and some youtuber is using it to test c6 characters without having to spend money like dum dum.

[@PalmerZora-e1s]

Wilson George Walker Joseph Lee Shirley

[@2Tune2]

Tired of gacha games 😞

[@InezKennedy-i3g]

Rodriguez Amy Anderson Mary Thomas Carol

[@LuciusIngemar-b1v]

Moore Jason Brown Angela Wilson Jessica

[@alkaruno8417]

What generosity? well the game it's pretty good but what makes me sad is I got 20k blackcard I pull with all of it on Alisa weapon but I got nothing 😢😢😢

[@Smorticle]

Yikes, yeah the weapon banner is ass, there's no safeguard for it. It took nearly my whole stash of black cards just for 1 Alpha CW sig wep....

[@su3t]

@@Smorticlethere is, if you miss 3 times you can scrap 3 weapons to buy any weapon you want.

[@jcceno4273]

Losing 80/20 3 times is the most sure way of the world saying u unlucky af

[@alkaruno8417]

@@jcceno4273 yeah I'm really an unlucky guy

[@ReanAntarctic]

you can lose multiple times on the weapon banner? damn that's unlucky

[@flexin2826]

do u have a discord man?