The Cougar Trope - Female desire is not a joke

[@JC-yy8iv]

You know what, bringing up Kim+Pete just made me aware that in all the coverage of them I haven’t seen one mention of the age gap

[@amandaredd3057]

I'm not sure I even realized that there was one honestly!

[@Ninjaagentxx]

Same with Megan Fox and MGK, thought she was younger than him tbh 🤣🤣🤣

[@squamish4244]

People are more focussed on whether his mental health is going to hold up.

[@marykay7878]

TRUE!

[@1MegArbo]

Progress!

[@lilil9752]

I am all by women having agency on their sexuality and dating younger men is not really a bad thing, but outright preying on minors can't be played unless she lands on prission.

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

Same! If it's an age gap, but they're both maturing adults, that's fine! If one of them is an adult while the other is a minor, BARS!!!

[@amandaredd3057]

yes this is never an ok scenario

[@mikemondano3624]

We should probably except teachers. Most kids in my school had their first experiences with teachers and where else could we even learn?

[@sseraphim2818]

@@mikemondano3624 What? You did not just say that.

[@majlordag1889]

Not just minors also ~18-20yo's if she's much older (this for both genders btw)

[@Chuuzus]

Samantha from Se* and the City remains an iconic character. she made people know that she can do whatever she wants with her body no matter how old she is

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

💯🎯

[@englishwithkristin8962]

I love her so much. I aspire to be so confident

[@nicodemusfleur]

I feel like mentioning Gabriella being a cougar in the positive sense (and even the 'Gossip Girl' example a little later in the video) are terrible examples of trying to say "Sexy older women were becoming more appreciated" -- they were both sleeping with underage teenagers, and are absolutely not in the same situation as characters like Samantha from Sex and the City...

[@DimaRakesah]

Yeah.... adults sleeping with minors is not empowering. It's abuse.

[@devinreis5811]

I totally get why that's seen as creepy.

[@ninjanibba4259]

The cougar is just that, she likes younger men and those men pursue her too, it’s not a punchline but more of an opportunity for exploration of her sexuality and for men, it’s a means of trying something different from the normal age range, whether that turns into something more than casual is up to them, but it’s normally sexual and that’s just fine as long as no one gets hurt in the process

[@fortune_roses]

Lovely proverb in France: Women don't truly *blossom* until age 40 ♡ (and beyond)

[@ninjanibba4259]

So anyone under 40 is just doomed? Nice message

[@O1OO1O1]

Depends what you mean by "blossom"

[@kath1017]

Being over 40, I believe that!👍🏾✨💯

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

@@ninjanibba4259 that’s a wild takeaway 😂🤣😭😭

[@O1OO1O1]

There's some truth to this, if you consider it from a sexual market value perspective. Men have higher value when they're older, women have higher value when they're younger, but paradoxically, are better mates when they're older because they're more likely to want to settle down and not play the field and cash in their sexual value.

[@ki3497]

I am disappointed that you didn’t discuted more of how problematic this trope can be especially with the deseperate housewives clip John was a minor…I see it the same way with older men pursing young 18-20 girls this is borderline predatory…

[@KaylaNoelle1]

I LOVE Carol but I felt similarly about the movie. In the book Therese is around 19 and Carol is 32 at the beginning of their relationship and I feel like they cast 45-year-old Cate Blanchette and made Rooney Mara act a little less mature for the intrigue when really the age gap wasn't as big in the book.

[@Lara-mx4cd]

I absolutely agree. I really wish they would have acknowledged that. I mean almonst everyone seems to know and talk about how probmatic Ezra and Aria are

[@devinreis5811]

That, I totally get.

[@baskaranananthakrishnan8912]

Eva Longoria is only 4 years older than malcafe

[@Zinetha]

@@baskaranananthakrishnan8912 But as the characters, at the start of the show, their "affair" has been going on for about a year and she's 28 and he's 16.

[@sircharlesmormont9300]

This analysis only glossed over the part of the fantasy in which the middle aged or elderly woman retains not only sexual agency, but also a more youthful beauty. It is empowering for women to be "allowed" to retain and act upon their sexuality past a certain age, but this trope still only allows outrageously gorgeous women to push that boundary. For older women, this creates a pretty demoralizing situation in which we are only permitted sexual agency if we defy nature and somehow manage to look amazing as we age. Instead of a social norm that puts women on the shelf past a certain age, we are now cultivating a social norm that expects women to resist aging - to, essentially, still look young (or young-ish) at any age. Society expects 40-year-olds to look 30 and the penalty for not achieving this nearly impossible goal is being cut off from a sex and dating life. Instead of society regarding women of a certain age as invisible by default, it now places the blame on the women for daring to age normally. Sure, you can remain visible - IF you remain attractive. You didn't? Must be your fault. It is even more insidious than the beauty standards applied to younger women because it is even more unattainable.

[@O1OO1O1]

I still don't think women have the short end of the stick, though. Not in our current society. Unless they were really genetically unfortunate. And dating is its own issue. A dishonest term and concept I'd sooner see abolished than fixed. Also, sex is easier if we don't treat it like a commodity. If one treats it like that, yes, you'll be subject to market forces.

[@WorkYourWisdom]

Thank you!! Such insight - I also saw this as they were discussing and showing different women in the video, women who, because of status and money, can direct special attention to their physical appearance through specialized diets and personal trainers.

[@lalabella6917]

Dating younger men is statistically less common for women, and definitely not mandatory. Plenty of women in the west keep dating, having sex, starting relationships with partners of the same age - without feeling the pressure you describe. A number of women are open to dating younger men, and don't necessarily feel limited by looks .. what they "miss", they make up for in confidence

[@toffeestrange7706]

I live in the heart of Florida by a huge retirement area and trust me, these people have fervent sex lives. The women are still getting around, having fun, and a lot are still very beautiful even if they have aged. I'm talking about 60+ age group of course. I'm 28 and one of the youngest people that go to my gym lol

[@katharinaheckmann4962]

Fair enough

[@dairyskeptic7428]

ofc its got to be florida

[@toffeestrange7706]

@@dairyskeptic7428 gotta represent the big FL. Cougar central lol

[@JMRoupe]

I have been in a relationship for 13 years with a man 13 years younger than me. He is honestly the most mature man I’ve ever known, and the best relationship of my life. It’s very rare that our age difference is ever an issue. The only person I worried about regarding it was his mom. But she loves me! He dated another older woman before me, but his mom hated her. His mom’s reasons for not like his ex had nothing to do with her age, and more to do with how she treated him. He also dated women his own age too, so it’s not a fetish. We had mutual friends in common. No big thunderbolts when we met. Neither of us even remembers the exact day. We just started hanging out more and more. He was actually dating someone else at this time. When he broke it off with her, he reached out and asked me why relationships were so hard. I, only trying to comfort a friend, said because when it’s the right relationship, it’s worth it. We started hanging out more & more still only as friends, and eventually he asked me out. I asked him why he wanted to be with me, and he said because he as more fun with me than anyone else. And here we are 13 years later. Our love has a strong foundation, and has withstood so much good & bad from life stuff (I lost both of my parents, his mom fought cancer, his dad has had a debilitating stroke, just to name a few). Our love just gets stronger. We’re in this together. ❤️

[@Nonyah123]

I could never ever ever imagine seeing a guy 13 years younger than me a romantic or sexual interest. Ever. Ever. The thought makes my skin crawl. But you're probably much older

[@amandaredd3057]

that's righteous, friend

[@cristinarivera5707]

@@Nonyah123 It’s understandable that that wouldn’t appeal to you. You’re in your early 20s so that would make him around 10. Give it about 10-15 years. I started attracted them younger when I hit 29 but I’d never go younger then 21 then. Now my age limit is 26

[@O1OO1O1]

@@Nonyah123 it means you're in your 20s (or less). Of course you can't imagine, younger men than you are minors.

[@O1OO1O1]

@@cristinarivera5707 I'm curious, attracted to younger men for sex (which can range from anything to casual sex, to "dating"), or a serious relationship? If a relationship, what do you find attractive about them, beyond looks?

[@luciacuevas611]

As refreshing as the cougar can be, I will always find it questionable to sleep or date someone who could easily be your son or daughter, especially when you do have a daughter or son who is the same age as the person you are with.

[@rochelle2758]

Thank you for taking on this topic! I've been waiting and hoping... it's interesting that in all your examples the women are conventionally "hot": no fat women, no one old enough to make audiences uncomfortable. Old women being interested in sex is still largely treated as repulsive/hilarious: maybe an opportunity for a part 2? I'm really glad you included Grace and Frankie, but we need some Golden Girls content! They were dealing with sexuality in older women long before Sex and the City came along.

[@mcgil8891]

Oh, good point

[@lyndsaybrown8471]

Exactly! There's a great example in Golden Girls when Dorothy's son dates and marries an older woman.

[@Spicie95]

I am glad to see The Take using Desperate Housewives as a reference, but let's not skip the fact that John Rowland is under-aged at the beginning of the series.

[@animalmania2381]

The clip they use kind of made me throw up in my mouth a little. Age gap is fine but if you are asking 'how is/was school' they are too young

[@trinaq]

The makers of "Cougar Town" obviously realised that they were limited by their premise, and that the concept of a middle aged woman dating younger men might not be the most sustainable concept. It was later abandoned in favour of a more traditional ensemble sitcom starring Jules, her family and friends, and their shenagians.

[@BlckSWANWhtRbbt]

Not funny enough concept for a multi season sitcom, but it worked pretty well for the show "Younger" which maintained the relationship to the end.

[@mikemondano3624]

There are many nice people in Shenagia.

[@GiulianaBruna]

I think in the long run, narratives will naturally focus on the characters that are permanently there and their relationship. Most shows with a serial dater or a player as main character focus on their friend group, family, workplace...

[@666Clayman82]

Actually, the "cougar" concept was already set in Greek mythology, with Phaedra having her way with much younger man Hyppolitus as a leading example. Great and entertaining analysis, anyway. You deliver every time!

[@Jkjoannaki]

I wouldn't call Phaedra ancient greek cougar as much as ancient Greece amber heard. As a Greek I have a vague memory of her accusing theseas son of rape because he didn't want her and she couldn't take the rejection maturely. The reason many hated her wasn't because of her age but for not acting like her age. However ofc since it's ancient Greek mythology, there's double standards on what a simple Cretan quarter "monster" woman could do and what Zeus can lmao

[@Jkjoannaki]

However now that I checked on it and refreshed my memory, she did end up committing suicide because of guilt for destroying her "sons" life (she fucked his dad) bc he died after those accusations so I guess she truly felt horrible for her actions, which shows she had at least some empathy

[@XanderShiller]

@@Jkjoannaki haha that's fascinating and one of my biggest reasons for visiting Greece. Btw I love the way you do your make up =] it really pronounces your smile.

[@Jkjoannaki]

@@XanderShiller if you love mythology you'll love visiting the oracle of Delphi, I always loved listening about her getting high and saying literally nothing while everyone went like "duuuuuude thats genius" Also thank you

[@XanderShiller]

@@Jkjoannaki that sounds fun as long as you bring good weed. =P

[@LycanVisuals]

Reminds me of a friend with a cougar whose menopausal and he's loving every second of it. They've been going strong for 6 years so far.

[@O1OO1O1]

How old is your friend?

[@LycanVisuals]

@@O1OO1O1 29

[@O1OO1O1]

@@LycanVisuals yeah, that's a dynamic that'd work very well.

[@AndSoWeLaughed]

Stiflers mom is not a cougar. She’s a predatory creep who waits for minors to become 18. Well… I guess it goes to the original definition with “willing prey” I like that there’s a female equivalent for men, But I’m annoyed that the cougar is ONLY a sex object in most cases. Weird. They’re portrayed as being with younger men only for sex and in a lot of cases it’s far more than that.

[@devinreis5811]

French First Lady Brigitte Macron is a more positive example; she's 24 years Emmanuel's senior. She's been called France's answer to Jacqueline Kennedy.

[@amandaredd3057]

I've always heard that women reach their sexual peak in their late 30s. I'm 40 and just to say, I feel more free and comfortable in my skin than I ever have before. This side doesn't cease just because we get older! My mom (God rest her soul) was at peak awesomeness in her 40s and 50s - and I'm saying young men totally noticed her. OK, that's all I really have to offer from my own personal experiences!

[@O1OO1O1]

Young men would only notice an attractive or charismatic 40 to 50 year old. And there's a difference between noticing (men notice every woman), VS perusing for sex or partnering. You're saying that young men did that?

[@dsoul1305]

@@O1OO1O1 to my mom, yes. She was hot until a few years ago and she has 65~. Younger guys went after her, 30 something, 40's, even 20's, but it was less common. She aged more in the face, basically, but my mom never got old in spirit. She is an sportist that like good clothes and knows how to handle herself with charm. Her figure got confused with 20's something all the time in the beach. I'm going to my 40's and feeling the same. Younger guys interested. I take care of myself but I see that I'm not 20 anymore, but they don't care. But then again, it's one thing to fool around and another to try a life-long relationship. I get the impression that it's easy to end up in a Demi Moore-Ashton Kutcher situation...

[@O1OO1O1]

@@dsoul1305 What does "interested" mean, though? What are they doing?

[@dsoul1305]

@@O1OO1O1 they talk about commitment more often than I would expect, in my mom case and mine. I don't get why they would choose older, but I guess that what bothers people the most is not exactly age. Looking for relationship counselling videos it seems that this is not a big factor.

[@O1OO1O1]

@@dsoul1305 I see. They choose it because they get burned by younger women, who are mostly sleeping around or "dating" (same thing) to find a partner. It's pretty rough on guys who are looking for a quality, long-term partner, and not using the same strategy. Or they're using the same strategy and looking for a unique experience, like being with someone from a different race, or a red head. ;) You're right, age and looks aren't that important compared to compatibility. Some of the most physically attractive people I know are the least attractive. FYI, this is one of few intelligent conversations I've had on KZbin in years. Like water in a desert. Thanks.

[@Leto85]

I'm glad you took on this Trope. When you think about it, The Cougar is actually an insult, both in its name as well as its portrayal on the big screen. Sounds like misogyny to me.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Meanwhile men who prey on younger woman (above the age of consent here) are hardly ever called out, nor do they not have a name for them.

[@wb3159]

@@kittykittybangbang9367 there is definitely a name for them. technically it can be applied to either, but its almost always used for a male since cougar is used for females. Its cradle robber which kinda sounds pretty gruesome.

[@Leto85]

@@kittykittybangbang9367 I've seen this Cougar movie only once yet, but I thought to recall that this was indeed mentioned in this movie as the Cougar's (sadly more accepted) counterpart. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[@Leto85]

@@wb3159 That sounds even worse. And also an insult to young women (I assume late teen/early twenties) who definitely don't want to be associated with a cradle in this way.

[@wb3159]

@@Leto85 yeah, I think its pretty offensive to everyone involved.

[@JasmineGeminiDragon]

How come we see online hate when Keanu Reeves started dating a woman close to his AGE????

[@natasharules770]

This brings back memories. I remember watching videos where his fans would make up a girlfriend for him and she would be a 20 something looking woman, with the body of Jinx from Arcane. I think him dating a woman his age disappointed their fantasy

[@JasmineGeminiDragon]

@@natasharules770 I think she's absolutely perfect for him. What the fans were picturing for him was an Amber Heard. God! Can you imagine? I think Keanu Reeves learned his lesson by watching others. He was like, "I'm not going to go after some crazy Amber Heard chick. I'm going to go for somebody who's mature, got her life together and has a creative spirit." The woman is a brilliant artist, beautiful silver hair and doesn't bother with social media. Mad respect for her and if there was a woman I would imagine him being with, it would definitely be her. They're perfect. I ship them. He deserves a mature and stable partner and not somebody he has to watch his back with. Imagine if he dated a 20-something whose a 10 but so is her crazy scale? Nope 🙅‍♂️ 🙅‍♀️ 🙅

[@saintsaens21]

You mean a couple of tongue in cheek comments in trolling tweets? Oh the world is ablaze!

[@michawong5361]

Lol, we're so used to seeing way old males with young females on screen, that like a quarter of these "cougar" movies just looked like a male star with a same-age female.

[@UnattiPriestess]

You cannot talk about the cougar trope and include examples of adults persuing minors--at least without talking about how "cougar" and "milf" definitions help hide women who are sexual predators. I know you guys have talked about how older men pursuing younger women is problematic and reflect the desire to be in power over someone younger, the same goes for older women and younger men. We need more examples of healthy older women's sexual lives, AND we have to talk about how those protrayed in media are often predatory examples.

[@AliciaNyblade]

THIS! Yes, older female characters should be shown as sexual beings, but the fact that fictional portrayals often reduce that to cougars is super problematic. Like you said, it opens the door for predatory behavior. Plus, it seems to send the message that the only way older people can be sexual beings is if they're with partners young enough to be their own children. It's still equating desirability with youth, as if couples whose partners are both over a certain age can't have just as much fun with each other's company.

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

EXACTLY THIS!!! Toxic masculinity plays a part in that trope as well. It's the whole misogynistic phrase some men from those times used where it's like, "you're not a real man if you haven't slept with an older woman" kinda bs. They were raised with this thought that if your first time was with an older woman, it's something to be celebrated when it's not. She took advantage of you

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@FireSilver25 Did your dad get in trouble for that? Also who in their right mind would take a 15 year old to a brothel?

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

And I love your last sentence because it is so true! That's why I love The Golden Girls and Grace & Frankie because they show that older women can still have healthy sex lives and date people their own age or at least younger people who aren't minors or in their early 20s

[@VidWatcher01]

Jennifer Anniston in Horrible Bosses is a perfect example of what you speak of. O mean she flat out raped dude while he was knocked out & then took pics of it!!

[@dianastc3710]

Loved cougar town is an unappreciated gem Also grace and Frankie is one of the best shows I've watched

[@maryfrancess93]

I find something very interesting how older sexually mature women tended to be portrayed as predatory. As if the options were only to be a non sexual entity or gross.

[@vincepena6308]

When I was 23, I dated a 38 yr old woman and a 40 yr old woman a year later. Never regretted it 😉

[@O1OO1O1]

Can you define "dating"? Do you mean hanging out and sex? (what most people mean) Or looking for a long term partner?

[@aaristokratka]

wtf dude u reply to every comment are you researching for an essay or something, why are you so invested 😃no shade but I can't read through comments without seeing that profile pic of yours it's a bit weird

[@O1OO1O1]

@@aaristokratka harden up

[@barbiquearea]

In Desperate Housewives Bree would herself become something of a cougar, especially in season 7 when she divorces her husband Orson and begins dating a much younger man named Keith. Their differences in age as well as the fact that Keith was from a different social economic background does become a point of contention throughout their relationship, but inspite of this they kept their romance strong until Keith had to move away to be closer to his son. Their breakup though a little tragic was also quite touching as a sorrowful Keith tells Bree he could never find anyone to love like her, but Bree being older and wiser assures him that he will find love again because he is young.

[@tobiaslawrence8928]

Am I the only one that has noticed more attractive older women than men and I'm bi.

[@neigeepierrot4694]

No I guess it’s because women take better care of themselves so they look better when they get older

[@saintsaens21]

Half of women in the UK have not done any vigorous sport in the past year - and it shows, most past 30 are fat and frumpy.

[@hannahlong1802]

Blanche from the Golden Girls could have been some great examples

[@81tabbycat]

Yeah I watched this and wondered how they could leave Blanche out

[@kath1017]

Blanche mostly dated men her own age.

[@JC-yy8iv]

“This is strictly off the record, but Dirk is nearly five years younger than I am.” “In what, Blanche, dog years?”

[@insertsomethingcreativeher7949]

cougar town is such an underrated show

[@stephanied6711]

I loved that show

[@VeronicaSlavova]

Eva Longoria was 28 during the filming of the first season of "Desperate Housewives", never thought of her as a cougar, just somebody was having an affair.

[@ki3497]

But John was supposed to be 17 in the show that kind of gross and make her predatory

[@VeronicaSlavova]

@@ki3497 I didn't know that, I was a teenager when season 1 was airing and Josh always seemed in his early 20s to me...

[@cocosky8434]

@@VeronicaSlavova John* that’s because the actor was in his early 20s. They should’ve just made him a college student

[@dimplesd8931]

As a “cougar”, my hubby is 9yrs younger, I never related to the stereotype because I’m not a size 4-6, with lots of disposable income and a great house/apartment. Hubby and I are just regular people who fell in love and the age thing isn’t a subject except when we discuss retirement.

[@susannpatton2893]

As long as you have things in common and it's not all inside the bedroom then ok. My example is the opposite. My sister dated a man 2 yrs younger than our mother. It was sick to me, gross and he is a pedifile in my eyes. He should have been dating our mom, he was 25 when she was born.

[@GiulianaBruna]

"Lovesick" episode "Anna" was really good in the topic of an older woman with a younger guy. It's short, and has a lot of stuff going on, but it's really sweet and has a sad beauty about it, about the different things people need on a relationship sometimes when there is an age gap, how it may or may not work.

[@SpectrumPOV]

Fun fact: cougar, puma, panther, and mountain lion are all names for the same animal.

[@returnoftheromans6726]

True.

[@lilil9752]

15:00 now wait a minute, Sam meet Aaron when he was like 18 and she was 41, not illegal but can't deny there is something weird about it. Is not the same as a woman in her 50s with a man in his 30s

[@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385]

No there's not something weird. People can be with who they want to be with.

[@NatanYael]

The problem lies in the MAJOR power imbalance since she was a high profile director and he was her employee. There’s a lot with that relationship that doesn’t sit right…

[@neptunie5171]

People have been saying that Sam knew Aaron and his family since he was a child. They then worked together when he was 17~ where she was the director of the film. There's something very off about the situation the more you look into it.

[@stitchedwithcolor]

I'm all for women celebrating their sexuality at any age, but can we appreciate that many of the examples you list involve boys who are either under the age of consent (the fountains of wayne song) or only *barely* over (the graduate)? Such people--of any gender--are still highly vulnerable and easily groomed, manipulated, and abused by an adult, especially one in a position of power like a teacher or a parent's friend. Yet our culture tends to only recognize that threat when the adult in question is a man (or maybe a queer woman), and this video seems to perpetuate that. A line must be drawn between relationships with younger partners who are empowered to fully embrace their sexual agency and those who are not.

[@porfiriodiazcarrillo7551]

not the Take putting the Aaron Taylor-Johnsson relationship as empowering!! that relationship had a predatory behavior as vile as the male ones!!!

[@caitedavis4671]

I’m the same age as Anne Bancroft was in The Graduate. I didn’t realize 36 was cougar age. Yikes I feel old.

[@barbiquearea]

One movie with a theme about a older woman dating a younger man was 2009's The Rebound. A movie that starred Catherine Zeta Jones playing a mother of two young kids having recently being divorced and getting back into the dating scene. But to make time for her new dating life while also working a high pressured job, she hires a young man to be her nanny. But as time goes on Catherine Zeta Jones's dates don't go so well, but she subsequently starts bonding with the nanny (played by Justin Bartha) and their relationship eventually turns sexual. This film points out the generational gap between the two protagonists, which as their relationship becomes serious starts pulling them apart as they are too different due to being from different generations and the fact that meeting each other's friends and relatives became very awkward. Eventually they break up but remain friends.

[@O1OO1O1]

Half way through your comment I knew they'd break up. A real relationship isn't likely going to come from that. It's just a fling. Which is fine. I just wish society was more honest about that stuff.

[@dsoul1305]

@@O1OO1O1 I think the chances are high to not workout but you would be surprised to go to videos taking about this and reading the comments. When I entered a relationship with a younger guy thought it has little chance, but as I read those reports I learned that many do work. I guess it will always be small numbers, but who knows what makes it work? I was ready to end my 10+ year gap relation at any time, even proposed "friends with benefits" since he was the one who pursuited, but he didn't wanted, he is emotionally invested and I'm too, I just made the proposition to make him think. We both only "date" to find good relations that we can cultivate for life, and despite his age be of a growned man I still worried about the age gap, the future, children, that I don't know if I truly want, etc. I don't want to invest my last youthful years to be "divorced" past a decade. There are inner pressure from myself for maintaining looks, but we never know how we will hang on. But also there are people who age ten years in five from excess work, etc. and if the majority of the relation was anchored in looks, then was it worth it in the first place? As I read and learn about relationships I think that what can separate us is more the will to live in different places than anything... We have similar values, ways of thinking, hobbies and culture and the will to improve our relation but our life path don't seem to cross. His family lives far and he wants contact and mine is going off the country and I don't want to live stuck in one place...

[@O1OO1O1]

@@dsoul1305 yeah, all that is too complicated for me to comment on. However, to clarify, yes, such relationships can work--history is full of them. I was analysing a specific situation, not the age gap. I'll share something that may be of use to you. Rollo Tomassi shares two interesting diagrams, one which compares sexual market value of men and women, and the other shares his theories of female mating strategies. It's a hard graph to find because he has no clue when it comes to SEO, but it's in his article entitled, 'Preventative Medicine - Part I' His work is controversial, but I think he's doing what few do--thinking about male/female pairbonding in a social context.

[@amandaredd3057]

Also, can I just point out how freaking AMAZING Jane Seymour looks? I mean yowza!

[@holly4393]

The most joyous and natural portrayal of the sexuality of older women for me is Mamma Mia.

[@Gemnist98]

I’ve met a wannabe cougar IRL, and let me tell you, it’s genuinely creepy. Like, it’s no laughing matter, this woman (a fellow grad student) was a nymphomaniac who constantly hit on men she found attractive (even making a mild pass at me, someone half her age, once), and then ruthlessly antagonizing the people who rejected her, which was pretty much everyone. Obviously they’re not all like this, and I honestly don’t judge them for wanting to be sexually active. There’s just a fine line between consensually sleeping around and being a fucking predator or groomer.

[@catherine5558]

I agree. I honestly find it unnerving mostly.. I know they are exceptions but in most cases (my opinion) when people are in very different places in their lives and maturity, it just feels uncomfortable. As if they are being taken advantage of and reduced to sexuality. I don't know how to articulate what I mean to right now and I haven't come across a 'cougar' as of yet so I'm speaking from assumption. I'm sorry you had that experience. People can be awful.

[@animalmania2381]

Tbh women can be just as bad as men at any age. I've worked a couple of female aimed club nights and the way they act with male staff can be a bit groapy

[@VidWatcher01]

Those she the ones that ruin it for the older women that just want a decent dating life.

[@ClaireCraig]

yup, ask any attractive man who's worked in a restaurant or bar. The harassment is insane.

[@margodrake3825]

Yeah, well I don't think there are too many 32 year old women pressuring someone who just turned 18 to marry them and using their family members to help pressure also, which is exactly what happened to me, so I don't want to hear it! Men are much more predatory. She made a mild pass big whoop!

[@PokhrajRoy.]

WAIT? Diane Keaton was opposite Keanu Reeves in a movie? That’s so cool!

[@maloneaqua]

I see the appeal of a cougar to a 20-something, I don’t see the appeal of a 20-something to a mature adult

[@lisapeesalemonsqueezah3241]

That's how it should be. Unfortunately we live in a society and I was raised religious fundamentalist so my ability to see myself as an attractive adult woman is pretty limited. If I'm not enfantalizing myself, I don't feel pretty. It's effed up but I don't know how to change it and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

[@JC-yy8iv]

RIGHT lol… a couple years ago I was surprised to be pursued by a 24-year-old who I went out with a few times (I was 35 at the time). Conversations with him could be downright excruciating at times

[@dsoul1305]

I doubt you don't see it. Both have specific appeal, but to my knowledge it's more about life stages than age in itself. 20 something have energy, joviality and can be less complicated in some aspects, but some of this can be related more to how the person sees itself and if they didn't become obsessed or overwhelmed with adult life issues. Life baggage is not always good. Some older people carry really bad expectations and ways of thinking.

[@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385]

People want who they want.

[@lisapeesalemonsqueezah3241]

@@dsoul1305 true, but a lot if the time if you end up having to "parent" the younger partner and that sounds like a huuuuuuuuge turn-off.

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

I just realized Jane Seymour played a “cougar” twice. 😂🤣 She was my first crush, and idk if that ever went away.

[@MaryanaMaskar]

She's a goddess, younger men could only dream...

[@KaylaNoelle1]

I want to see more of the sapphic older woman through the eyes of the sapphic younger woman like in Carol (The Price of Salt). It was dismissed as just another piece of cheap lesbian pulp fiction but it remains one of the most tender and romantic books I have ever read. The movie does a wonderful job of representing the relationship between Carol and Therese as well. It's not fetishistic and it in no way feels temporary, it's like they have this soul tie from the moment they meet and nothing can keep them apart.

[@Itachi45481]

Didn't know its origin was Canadian dating site I thought it was a Hollywood cinema term made for the trope

[@lisapeesalemonsqueezah3241]

Every older male star gets a 20-25 year old woman and 30+ women are rarely on screen for long. It makes me feel like my existence and anything I achieve in life doesn't matter if I'm not in my 20s. Does that feeling go away?

[@juliannehannes11]

Same, I'm 36 and feeling like I'm a failure and have no future

[@O1OO1O1]

At that age your sexual market value has decreased, so you have to rely on other attributes. Most notably, having your sh*t sorted (not perfect, just don't have loads of personal baggage), and being a good potential partner (if that's what you're looking for). Women in their 30s or 40s aren't unattractive, but any other flaws or personal issues will be accentuated. A 30 or 40 year old could be way more attractive than a 20 year old. 29 year olds are kids. The real issue isn't so much that you have no future, but that our society and how it approaches relationships and dating (not to mention dating apps) is really messed up. But we have to admit there's a problem before they will change.

[@O1OO1O1]

I also think society is poorly equipping women for the new opportunities available to them that previously weren't. It's not that they're hard to take. It's that it's difficult knowing what to take, and what not to. So there are many women who are well set up in life, but have no partner, and similar situations. You see this in an exaggerated forum in societies like Japan, where people aren't having sex much or having kids. In Japan, the role of work is broken.

[@O1OO1O1]

@@FireSilver25 why do you want attention from hot guys? Don't you want a real relationship? Also, be aware, there are people who go their whole life with no attention from "hot" people. The pick-up community would suggest you work on your "inner game" rather than go under the knife. But if you must have hot guys... By the way, as a male, I find it less attractive when women have cosmetic alterations. Beyond the physical changes, it signals to me they're not okay in their own skin. I'm not saying it can't work. Jessica Nigri, for example, has fake bre*sts, but she totally wanted that and owns it. But if you're doing it not because you want it, but out of need, I'm not sure that's a good reason.

[@charlee_hotel]

@@O1OO1O1 Hi! I noticed it’s 2022 AD. Which means… *NOBODY CARES WHAT CRUSTY, DUSTY, ASHY MEN WANT!!*

[@jlgirlxox]

Little disappointed you didn't touch on how the "cougar" trope laughs off SA of minors when the predator is female. Like it's played as funny that an older woman could have sexual desire ofc, but also feeds the idea that the men perusing them are always "wanting it" and not in a potentially gross power imbalance.

[@trinaq]

In the 60's, we may have cheered for Ben Braddock. Nowadays, we might find Mrs Robinson more sympathetic, since Ben constantly makes increasingly idiotic decisions.

[@benwasserman8223]

It’s more like Ben’s uncertain of his direction and Mrs. Robinson has no direction because she got pregnant early. So the affair is the one area where she had some degree of control, especially since they have very little shared interests.

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

I feel like that is a slippery slope because Mrs. Robinson took advantage of a man who was the same age as her daughter... If the movie was made nowadays, it should be a cautionary tale and not something to strive for.

[@Sandavi001]

Can you do a one on the trope 'alpha male ' and it's misinterpretations?

[@carloszapata847]

The actual "Alpha Male" in animals is more accurately described as "The Patriarch". Less "Biff Tannen" and more "Vito Corleone".

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Especially since alpha males don't actually exist in wolves, and that entire study was debunked.

[@amandaredd3057]

I still think Diane Keaton's character should've ended up with Keanu Reeves'!

[@pedroamaral8988]

Wait, Antman dated Wasp’s mother?! 😱

[@theitalianalien8477]

Yess exactly, she's not a punchline! She's the setup. Set me up with one, please

[@rosahearn6132]

I had just finished watching S1. E9 of the golden girls when Blanche dates an young aerobics instructor. so I had to watch this trope. Thanks!

[@colehartel7206]

When I was a young man, woman my own age were only interested in older men, so the attention of cougars was quite welcome (as well as highly educational). I may have occasionally felt like I was being used as a sex toy, but I certainly never felt like I was anyone's 'prey'. If anything, the fact they had their own financial independence made them less predatory than the younger women who just went after men who could buy things for them.

[@O1OO1O1]

I'm curious, where does the attention of cougars come from? What settings?

[@AnaCarolinaCosta]

the aaron taylor johnson one actually is weird though and should be looked at critically

[@Tinymoezzy]

I'm literally dating a guy who is 6 months younger than me... 6 months. The amount of "you're such a cougar!!!" Comments I get from different people. So stupid.

[@Tinymoezzy]

@vishsagi2011 it's not like I look sooo old or anything. Some people get really weird about an older female... Eben 6 months older.

[@TonyIgnatova]

Statistically women live 10 earlier longer then men so marrying an older guy increase woman's chances to die alone 😅

[@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385]

Older women who seek younger men have been desired and hated by society. The idea of casting aside this character totally rather than portraying her as powerful and not evil as some see they as, is kinda not acknowledging that there are women who want to be with who they want to be. Unfortunately, these women have been spat on and believed deserved to go to jail for their desires speaks to the misogynistic tendencies of society.

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

I love seeing older women own their sexuality. My problem isn't that older women who find younger men (and when I say younger men, I mean young men who are at the youngest age of 25) attractive, it's female predators who find minors (or people in their early 20s) attractive. We need to hold female sexual predators accountable just like male sexual predators

[@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385]

@@rebeccassweetmusic4632 Minors aren't in their 20s. The age of consent varies and everyone in their 20s is of the age of consent. Hell, there are those younger who take advantage of those older. It's not about age.

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

@@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385 Wow...

[@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385]

@@rebeccassweetmusic4632 It's the truth.

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

@@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385 Sigh... 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

And I love Anne Bancroft. It's just... That role is super uncomfortable to watch. She felt so ambivalous about that role because it overshadowed her movies she did before The Graduate and the movies she did after The Graduate. Honestly, I agree with her! I don't blame her for playing such a role because Mrs. Robinson was the most interesting character in the movie. I mean, she's WHY the film became a cult classic. Anne was asked in an interview if she believed that Mrs. Robinson was misunderstood. She said yes and "I think she had dreams and those dreams could not be fulfilled..." She has also spoke about the nude scenes and said that she just couldn't do them. Got pneumonia and they had to get a stunt double to do the nude parts. Turns out the famous leg and pantyhose scene was actually a stunt double's leg. Anne never felt comfortable showing skin in her films.

[@carlab994]

Thank you for bringing this subject up! I'm currently in my 1st same-sex relation, and she's about 10 years older than me. I really don't care about age and I actually find really interesting talking and being with someone with much different life experiences than me. All this made me question my inner bias about older women, and how women's sexuality is portrayed, and it's (sort of) helping me deal with the idea that I'll be 40 in a couple of years, and how people will look at me, being a child-free woman.

[@ALSeth-Storyteller]

Literally went to a standup where a cougar made the best jokes for hours on end just yesterday.

[@jacaranda.swallow]

Cougars did exist before the 90s too, I’m thinking: An American in Paris, Breakfast at Tiffany’s, and especially Norma Desmond from Sunset Boulevard.

[@DMMA0726]

I was so surprised recently that as The Boys is so in top of its satirization, they went the route of the cougar/gilf shaming joke with Soldier Boy. As though the idea of a woman past 60 is so repulsive.

[@mmnichole3115]

John was underage when Gabi had the affair with him in desperate housewives! that is statutory rape not a good example of older woman/young man relationship! you even put a short clip of the part when Gabi talks about school's lesson with him! NOT OK!

[@cocosky8434]

Bree with Keith during season 7 was a better example

[@Elfos64]

We all have power, sex appeal and that X-factor allure are all about how well you wield it.

[@chiluditospro2]

Cougars make great training wheels for younger guys, there's not much more to it than that.

[@susannpatton2893]

😂😂😂😂. The using is on both sides. They aren't wanting to marry you, just enjoy the stamina you have. You aren't using them, they are using you little boy toy

[@chiluditospro2]

@@susannpatton2893 oh on that I agree I never said that I was the only one using. The thing is that I'm gaining experience for the younger ones and eventually I'll get married, that's the end game. Their end game is that while they get fucked for the stamina they'll still end up alone and bitter. I've seen this way too many times to believe the contrary and as much as they say they're "having a great life", they're not. It's called coping. The use of anti depressants by women alone speaks the truth. Women simply aren't designed to be alone, at least that's the truth for the vast majority, period.

[@kingkingsley8099]

12:01-12:03 What show or movie is that scene from?

[@garitobee7541]

I think joking about "The Cougar" woman was the first step in normalizing it. There are steps after that to destigmatize it, but people have to see the concept first in a positive light. I think making fun of something gets a bad rap; we see jokes about someone or something as evil, but it's not - it's the first step in including them into the conversation.

[@AliciaNyblade]

I think it's great that society is realizing women over a certain age are fully-rounded people and sexual beings. That said, I think the, "Oh, it's fine if the people involved prefer partners who could be their child or parent," thing is a bit creepy. But that could be my dislike for the May/December relationship trope in general. People who can't or won't find romantic partners close to their own age clearly have some Freudian stuff going on they need to work through.

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

Exactly! Young minors are easier to manipulate and groom because their brains still haven't processed what manipulation and control looks like. Abusers get more pushback from people their own age because by that time, they know what manipulation looks like in the dating world

[@AliciaNyblade]

@@rebeccassweetmusic4632 Agreed. Even if the two involved are of legal age, a large age gap is gross and indicates a manipulator/manipulated power imbalance. People pursuing partners so outside their age range are immediate red flags because obviously their peers won't put up with their shenanigans, whether it's the older person looking for an easy toy or the younger person with Mommy/Daddy issues.

[@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385]

No it isn't. It's just society pushing narrow minded beliefs on people.

[@AliciaNyblade]

@@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385 The Freudian elements of a big age gap in a romantic pairing are obvious; even this video, which defends the trope, acknowledges that the people involved have psychological issues. What someone's thoughts are on that is up to them, but everybody can agree that the aspects of "I want a parental figure I can fuck" or "I want a hot, young thing to play with" are there.

[@VidWatcher01]

The 1st time I heard the term "cougar" was in a T Mobile commercial.

[@Dtillma228]

I love your videos but it would be SO HELPFUL if the movies you use were mentioned in the description.

[@silveryfeather208]

And cougars are often villainized...

[@proudatheist2042]

The scene and line shown from the movie Wedding Crashers wasn't "borderline predatory," it was predatory. She had him locked in the room and would only let him leave on the condition that he feel her up.

[@angiea9620]

It’s disturbing that there wasn’t a topic of grooming in this video. Desperate Housewives and Gossip Girl both have older women sleeping with minors. Also there is evidence that Sam Taylor Johnson may have groomed Aaron when they first met.

[@squamish4244]

It's like the trend more generally is to see women as people.

[@REB_reb]

Do you think you could do the stereotype of the annoying younger sibling?

[@RoninRen]

gotta say by weird logic, maybe The Cougar should team-up with The Nag,

[@insertsomethingcreativeher7949]

u guys need to make a desperate housewives vid

[@robchuk4136]

The rarest combo- Older woman/Younger woman: In Killing Eve, Sandra Oh is 50, and Jodie Comer is like, in her 20s

[@PokhrajRoy.]

I really want to watch ‘Good Luck To You, Leo Grande’!

[@passiveaggressive6175]

John Cho was in American Pie??🤨

[@madnessarcade7447]

An older woman and a younger man isn’t always a cougar like in firefly lane she’s not technically a cougar

[@Angi3_6]

The only cougars I have a problem with are the ones that use their position of power and influence over their partner (outside of kink). Or one who dates minors. 🤮

[@teolinek]

Comparing changes in cougar women's income with the number of depictions on the screen would be interesting.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Ngl if they tweaked it up a little, I’d like to see a reality show with a divorcee or a single AFAB have unconventional suitors.

[@XanderShiller]

Next video - Are GILFs the new Cougars?

[@susannpatton2893]

Cougars will stop the exact minute that old men stop having younger girls/women

[@kkandsims4612]

To be fair the graduate I think Dustin was like 5 years younger then anne

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

In real life, Dustin and Anne were 6 or 7 years apart. Anne was 36 and Dustin was 29. That actually made me feel a bit relieved to know that. I still don't like the movie. There are much better Anne Bancroft films where she is sexy and gorgeous, but also not aggressively creepy. And her acting skills are shown a lot better. Erm... Erm... *The Miracle Worker*, *The Pumpkin Eater*

[@alliyahd8650]

Definition of cougar woman not joke

[@vanzen9686]

Would Paul Varjak's "decorator" from Breakfast at Tiffany's fall under this category?

[@rebeccassweetmusic4632]

If I were to make The Graduate, I would recreate it as a horror/thriller. I would also humanize Mrs. Robinson without excusing her creepy behavior towards Ben. I would focus more on her past and what could have been, what led up to her losing control of herself (minus sexuality), and why she neglects her own daughter and how it has affected Elaine. Ben would still be in the story, but only as a secondary character. Instead of calling it The Graduate, I would call it "Here's To You, Mrs. Robinson." Their would also be therapy scenes in it too. And I want a scene where she ends up in jail because, at the end of the day, she abused a young person that was the same age as her child...

[@serena7089]

What about "Younger"?:) any opinions?

[@sentientsponge8570]

Thanks for reminding me about Diane and Keanu 😤😤😤

[@Missmagazinebura]

Jane Seymore and Elizabeth Hurley lookalike. I cant tell whos who LOL.

[@mikearchibald744]

My favourite anecdote on this kind of thing is that Anne Bancroft (?) and Dustin Hoffman were almost the same age in The Graduate, and his 'fiance' was like 20. Doesn't that just say it all. At my age about the only bit of wisdom I've discovered is if something is a media trope and an expectation of 'society', then its usually guaranteed to be upside down or backwards. Its said that male desire for a younger female is only based on competition with men or the desire for a relationship of 'unequals', meaning it really has ZERO to do with actual sex OR relationships but is a simple power dynamic. I'm rich, your hot and young, my deal is you do what I want and you'll be provided for, end of story. Thats essentially prostitution by a fancier name. And frankly I don't know of ANYBODY that thinks guys are 'heroes' for going out with such women, at least by MARRIED guys who married their own age group, such guys seem like pathetic losers. Immediate sexual attraction may be visual, but that lasts about five seconds, or at most a night. Its more likely the media is simply the scapegoat for what is obbiously true now, which is that with more sex possible outside marriage, fewer people are getting married. The other trope about the pathetic guy who 'can't settle down' also just seems obvious-if you are vacuous, like your solitude, just like sex, why WOULD you pursue a relationship? The flip side of that is that the cougar is the only HONEST trope out there. In the thirties a womans body is approaching the end of fertiility, and that has the obvious effect. And of course why pursue an old guy? And so long as a woman is in the 'ballpark' the assumption is safe that the 'pursuit' isn't really much of a pursuit. But I'm trying to think of such media examples where the old guy going after the young woman is portrayed much at all. American Beauty is about the last place I remember it. frankly I was pretty insufferable when young with a one track mind, so WHY younger women would PREFER older men doesn't actually seem like such a mystery to me, in fact it seems downright common sense. And frankly the portrayal of young mens desire has ALWAYS been one thing in 'discussion' and another in reality. A guy will TALK a lot about preferences and ideals, but in online conversations I see a LOT of men who make complaints that sound very much like what the stereotype of women was supposed to be. Anne Bancroft in The Graduate could have been just trying to show her daughter his true face. Frankly why that movie is revered is just beyond me, I saw it once and thought it was stupid as all hell.

[@susannpatton2893]

Where did this "trope" word come from, and why is it ok to use? No one is a trope 😂 why do you feel the need to label everything?

[@mikearchibald744]

@@susannpatton2893 Because its a word. Go look it up. Where did this word 'word' come from, why is it ok to use, no one is a word, why do you feel the need to label everything.

[@susannpatton2893]

@Mike Archibald Brownie Troop, Eagle Scout Troop, even Girl Scout Troop. Yes. The goofball label that is Trope- 😂🤣 no

[@steveclapper5424]

That level of sexual aggression would be ugly regardless of which gender was doing it.

[@siddaye]

What about the good wife? With Jennifer Aniston and Jake gilenhaal?

[@MarkLaw13]

Men aren't complaining but woke women are calling men who do the same creepy despite the young woman wanting the men so badly while it's the opposite

[@NightimeInDeepSpace]

Pretty much all the women you reference are upper middle class or wealthy how does this translate to working class women. They seem to be invisible to everyone