The CRAZY Ebike law that MUST Change Before Someone Gets HURT

[@e-VRC]

Be sure to check out my other videos on ebike law: Power law: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYTUmZqiiMSGhtk Speed Law: kzbin.info/www/bejne/enjZaKNvo9WnmdE Is this the craziest Ebike law? If you could change one ebike law what would it be? Don't forget to subscribe if you love ebikes, It's free!

[@evertonshorts9376]

They're all crazy. They're designed to push you on to a motor vehicle and paying tax. As for the 250w maximum thing, is that per motor, or per bike?

[@cameronmorrison3568]

Bro the world is ending and you care about ebikes 😂

[@e-VRC]

@@cameronmorrison3568 got to care about something 😂😂

[@qmkb4917]

Ebike motors should cut out at 20mph as u say. Urban areas gonna be 20mph shortly. At 20 u won't get lapped by normal cyclists. Throttles are great.

[@qmkb4917]

Bro I have just bought the cumini electric moped. It's down to 999 rrp. I think it's a game changer. It's a tiny bit underpowered but still at these prices I bought 4! Check it out

[@oliverpolden]

With so many urban roads now being 20mph, raising the limit to that would absolutely make sense.

[@nbartlett6538]

As if any car ever actually does 20 in a 20 limit zone…

[@oliverpolden]

@@nbartlett6538 the closer a bike goes to the speed that a car is going the less likely they are to overtake. So yes you’re right that people do more than the speed limit but I believe it would still reduce risk.

[@nbartlett6538]

@@oliverpolden I'm not sure that's true sadly. Drivers have the mentality that if there is a bike in front of them, they HAVE to get ahead, even if they have to break the speed limit to do so. It's like it's a personal insult for there to be a bike in front of them rather than behind them. So they will break the speed limit to overtake. Very very few drivers fail to follow this pattern.

[@oliverpolden]

@@nbartlett6538 I believe the MGIF people are a minority. Most people are decent, safe and considerate drivers. It’s the poor ones that stand out. For a safe and considerate driver, that lack of (legal) speed differential will limit the need to overtake. Sure it won’t stop everyone but it will make a difference.

[@emiel1976ep]

As you want even more injuries and deaths, than yes!

[@steviegwhizz345]

As someone with a heart condition that can no longer ride very far and forget about doing hills I'd love to get back on a pushbike again and I've been seriously considering an e-bike, but I would need a throttle to take over when I can no longer pedal. This law is discriminating against those with health conditions. A little cycling would definitely improve my health but it seems the government has no concern about our health. I've had enough of government getting in the way with stupid controlling laws, we don't need them they only cause problems. There is only one law we all need to live by and that is "Do no harm and cause no loss or injury" that's it. I'm going to get an E-bike at some point but I will get one with the power I need and with a throttle, if a copper was to take it from me they would be causing harm, loss and injury and I'd sue the copper for discrimination against a disabled man and theft of my property. I always ride within road rules. F the Gov.

[@e-VRC]

Tbh i think you'd get away with it. Police usually leave people alone if they're being sensible and if they don't they try to educate and say push it home. If that happened to you and you told them then it would take a hard hearted person to take it further. And despite me moaning about the law I still think no one would get into trouble having a throttle on an ebike labelled 250w. As some have mentioned before the engine X from engwe is '250 watts' but in reality is more powerful than that. Also has a throttle.

[@shm5547]

You CAN legally have a throttle on an e-bike in the UK. It needs front and rear lights, an electric motor rated for 250W and a maximum speed of 16mph (plus, bizarrely, a stand if over 35kg!). You just need to get it inspected at an DVSA centre and pay the £55 quid fee. It's then classed as a 250W Low Power Moped, which meets the criteria to be considered a bicycle.

[@videomentaryproductionschannel]

Yes definitely get an E Bike, I had a heart bypass 7 years ago and it's just pleasure to ride and I keep fit ,I got my Engwe EP 2 Pro 7 months ago and have already covered 1500 miles and tow a trailer with it for getting rid of my wife medical waste, and doing private repairs, would not be without now, and you get to meet like minded people along the way 😀 my friend do it, you won't regret it, good luck 😀

[@patomahony9747]

Bought my first bike in over 40 years , a 500w , over 5 years ago. Found it a challenge with my disability, because it was a standard gents bike frame. So I gave this bike to my son and granddaughters and got my self a y20 , fat tyre step through. Has been a game changer. Have even put a 2 child trailer on it to carry heavier bulky items. My original ebike currently has , last I checked, near 16,000 km on it. ( samebike lo26 ) Recently one of grand kids told me that a really long steep hill near their house, the bike carried her up this hill by applying “walk mode”. Only concern I have with this is would it cause the motor to over heat , but iirc the motor on this bike has a temperature sensor built in to the motor that will reduce power or shut it down if it should overheat. Other than tyres and brake pads has given no trouble. If you are worried about balance , may I suggest you get a non electric adult trike that has disk brakes and at least 7 gears and fit a mid drive kit. This is my plan down the road should my ankles get worse. Reason I suggest mid drive is they produce near double the torque , so hills don’t really bother them like the rear hub motors. In fact , being mechanically minded, I have a design in mind that will allow me to convert my existing bike in to a trike.

[@br5380]

Get a Scooter, a powered one.

[@KarlVaughan]

I've had my e-bike for a month and can already see the issue with the limited speed of 15.5mph. I agree that 20mph is more realistic. When I go over 15.5 it's like I'm fighting with the bike to get up to a faster speed. It's frustrating. The law needs changing in that regard. As for the throttle, I too use it at junctions to pull away quicker and now I've got it down to a tee after plenty of practice. I'm a big bloke at 6ft 6 and 100kg so would appreciate a more powerful motor than the puny 250W we get in the UK. 750W would be better for me but I'm a responsible rider so have to abide by the law. If and when it changes I will certainly upgrade.

[@e-VRC]

I'd definitely be up for a CBT allowing a more powerful ebike for responsible people like yourself 👍

[@dtz1000]

You can get 750W legally if you buy the Engwe Engine X. The label on the ebike says 250W, but when you accelerate it feels like 750W. It's definitely a step up in power from the Ado A20F.

[@e-VRC]

@@dtz1000 i may have to ask them about that one!

[@DemiGod..]

It is not an issue if you have a rear hub mahle x35 motor, the centre hubs have the issues you mention. With the mahle, you are unaware when it kicks in or out at 15mph, just notice your ride is much easier.

[@arthurarsekey6634]

I'm an irresponsible rider and only have an extra 15 minutes travelling time for my 18 mile commute over my car! When the law makes no sense, the individual should ignore it. If we all ignored it, it would go away pretty quickly.. Ebike speed limit should be 50 mph for qualified riders. The government could have their slice by introducing a CBT and test. I have travelled faster on a regular bicycle, downhill of course!

[@PenryMMJ]

I don't currently have an e-bike, but I'm thinking of getting one. Riding a push bike around the west side of the Pennines it's pretty easy to hold a steady 35-40 mph on long downhill stretches powered by nothing but gravity. An e-bike will make it easier going back up the hill.

[@e-VRC]

They'll ban ebikes going down hill next 😂

[@videomentaryproductionschannel]

Yes your right, my Engwe EP 2 pro easily gets up to 35 mph on down hill stretches it has great free wheel, so why limit the top speed to 15 mph when you can do 30 mph down a long hill, dose not make sense 😊

[@Robbo1966]

Archaic laws dictated by old out of touch law makers, definately should be max around 20mph and throttle assist.

[@specialized500]

Hardly archaic

[@knoxieman]

Great video, subbed, I've been riding a 30mph ebike daily for 25 years with a throttle never been stopped once, keep the bike well maintained, peddle when going at high speed even if it's not doing anything, get some 250w stickers on the motor and controller and you will be fine, power limits on ebikes make no sense, the only limit should be rider age, top speed and acceleration, I'm 17 stone, 250w will not take me up a steep hill at 15mph but 1KW will, oh and cars, when I'm doing 30mph in a 30 zone cars still overtake, they are just programmed to overtake bikes, you could do 40 in a 30 on an ebike and a vicar will still overtake.

[@patomahony9747]

Or sit behind you with plenty of room to pass and sit on the horn. Neanderthal behaviour that seems to be inbred into many motorists. Another pet hate of mine is on a local 2 lane per side 30 mph road. In light traffic where the outside lane is basically empty , motorists still insist in passing within less than 2 feet instead of moving in to the empty lane. Makes no sense

[@e-VRC]

Thanks! Yeah it seems 1kw limit would make sense even if speed is still limited.

[@hegenious]

I just don't understand that your coppers are fooled by a 250watt sticker off aliexpress :)

[@chrisbrowning1912]

I had an e-bike in the UK that had a throttle before the law changed banning them on new bikes. The throttle meant I could do slow tight turns without having to pedal as this would kick in the pedal assist and the kick of the sudden power almost had me off a couple of times. I wouldn't buy another e-bike unless it had throttle control.

[@e-VRC]

Thanks for sharing, I'm amazed how many people argue against ebikes having a way to go slower under power, wrongly thinking a throttle will make them magically become a motorbike.

[@darrents44]

As a driver and ebike rider, i often think why don't the GOV / DVLA just let me register a more powerful ebike, i don't mind getting a registration, insurance etc.. BUT NO .. Just make it illegal. I have a FIIDO D1 which goes 16mph on throttle but only 10mph pedal assist ..

[@ToThePointCT]

The slower you go on the road the more dangerous it actually is. When I'm going 10 to 15 miles an hour I feel like I'm holding everyone up and just this object in the way. When I'm going more like 25 mph I feel like I'm part of the traffic so much safer.

[@wibblywobblyidiotvision]

If it's not pedal assisted, you're a moped. Mopeds exist. Electric mopeds exist. If you're a moped, you need : 1 - Registration plates 2 - A driving license 3 - Insurance 4 - An MOT if your vehicle is older than 3 years old 5 - To be over 16 years old (used to be 14 when I was younger, don't know when that changed) If you have problems with your pedals hitting the floor when you're turning, that's because the design of your bike is dogshit. Or you're hitting a sharp curve at 70kph (been there done that have the scars and the snapped frame to prove it). And even so, oh NOES, I have to pay attention to what I'm doing with my feet!!! Like car drivers have been doing for years. Like motorcycle riders have been doing for years. Like *mountain bikers* have been doing for years. If you can't concentrate on that and the road, you have no place on the road. If your pedal assist is "all or nothing", again, the design of your bike is arguably dogshit. And even if it is, and you can't get used to it after the first 5 yards - well, you have no place on the road. And no, it doesn't require going up and down through the power assist modes. Thats bullshit. And as for putting your feet down to get through that chicane - well, you can't ride for shit, mate. OH NOES I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MY GEARS WORK AND I GET STRANDED AT TRAFFIC LIGHTS. Again, no place on the road. You downshift, the same way you do in a car, or on a motorcycle, or - well, on a bicycle. And if you get it wrong, you're gonna have to stand on the pedals. Like any other cyclist. You're a bell end.

[@ianroscow2407]

The question really is “when should e-bikes be required to comply with ‘real’ vehicle regulations, like needing insurance, pay road tax, have regular safety checks, pass regulations for brakes, lights, tyres etc?”. As a motorcyclist as well as a cyclist I do see a danger of e-bikes becoming like motorcycles, but without the controls in their design and manufacture to make them safe on the roads. For example, my wife’s e-bike has awful brakes that are really not up to stopping the heavy bike when loaded with shopping and going at speed. Quite frightening. So, at what point should safety regulations start to be set and applied? When should insurance be compulsory? When should riders be tested? 250W? 750W? Bike weight >30kg? >40kg? Max speed 20mph? 30mph? 40mph? If these questions are ignored then why shouldn’t everyone at any age and skill level just freely ride cheap 30hp electric bikes when they come, probably with no lights and poor brakes and bald tyres?? I really don’t have to say that some arguments here could indeed take us down that very dangerous road. At the moment e-bikes are treated as push bikes because they emulate them in terms of speed and function. Once they exceed push bike boundaries then new rules on machine and rider safety, rider testing and licensing, machine registration and insurance will have to apply as they will then be formally classed as mechanically propelled vehicles - in other words inherently dangerous.

[@DarthTinderalla-qm9zw]

The people who should be limited to 15mph on a bike should probably not be allowed outside without adult supervision. Probably best to keep most of those people locked in their basement

[@Codbeast101]

This is somewhat true, but e-bikes will never get that far. Well in the technical sense at least, E-bikes faster than 32 are illegal. They’ll have to be more like motorcycles, and will basically just become electric motorcycles. Anything under 32 mph will still be 100% legal as an E-bike, anything over will probably require everything our cars need to be legal.

[@JakeWest-1]

If you see an issue with your wife's bike, upgrade the brakes. You don't need laws to do simple things like upgrading parts that are ineffective. Laws are in my opinion never the answer, this is why the UK isn't free sadly.

[@Dmanrider]

​@@Codbeast101mines going 42 miles

[@Dmanrider]

Sounds like you havent bothered to upgrade the cheap hardware that comes with most ebike I've upgraded everything on mine

[@DFX2KX]

We have similar laws here in the states. Though honestly I just de-restricted my DIY kit. And then proceeded to thrash the hell out of it.

[@ELECTRICBIKEDIYLIFE]

Actually the national average based on most of the states in the USA is 750W. You can also legally have more than 1 electric motor on your bike. All of the bikes and builds I've done eventually end up being dual motors. The legal speed limit as long as you're wearing safety gear is 28 mph at a class 3 rating.

[@e-VRC]

Yeah I wish uk ebike laws were the same as the USA.

[@joseph8208]

I've never seen a dual e motor bike! 😮

[@ELECTRICBIKEDIYLIFE]

@@joseph8208 Just search for dual motor e-bike on you tube and a bunch of videos should pop up. Actually I just watched a video of a guy that has 3 motors on his bike, 2 hub motors and a mid drive which is something I could do if I had the right size frame.

[@jamessimpson1515]

Depending on where you are in the US, 28 mph may not be a hard limit (I don’t know the laws in all the states). Where I am, you’re free to have an e-bike that moves faster, but you have to have a legal driver’s license to operate it. Where I live, Class 1 and Class 2 are limited to 20 mph (Class 1 is pedal assist only, Class 2 can have a throttle), Class 3 is limited to 28 mph but the rider has to be 16 or older, after that it’s classified as an electric moped/motorbike and there is no speed cap but you have to be 16 or older AND have a driver’s license.

[@Matahalii]

Here in (D) you can have a S-Pedelec with assist up to 45km/h but you need insurance and a moped-license plus wear helmet. Throttle still not allowed, but I do not get your pioint with this. I never missed it. you can gear down for uphill sections or increase the assist-mode.

[@Chris558576]

I agree that throttles should not be banned. I have an older bike that is allowed to have one & wont be buying one without. My hands work better than my feet when i need to move.

[@catfrab]

A bike with a proper throttle is perfectly legal and available aleady. Just get an electric motorcycle. Many of them can also do regular traffic speeds too so no more problem having cars make unsafe overtakes. Plus, no pedals to scrape the ground!

[@Mowgi]

In my state (South Australia) the power limit is 200w and no throttle allowed. It's so silly. I need that throttle regularly, as you show, to get around turns and across toad crossings, etc.

[@e-VRC]

Wow even less! I'd have expected Austrailia to be similar to the USA.

[@ianmangham4570]

​@@e-VRCAustralia is long gone ,they banned FIREWORKS and AIRSOFT, can you believe that one, 😮total GESTAPO 😮

[@sparkoceanic]

i'm in Western Australia and i have 2 ebikes with 1500w bbshd mid-drives that can comfortably reach 50km/h. I have never had any problems with police over the last year i've owned them. I think you could probably ride any setup here as long as you aren't being dangerous. I regularly see sur-rons blasting past me at 500km/h and i think those sort of riders are the ones causing the problems.

[@JoeyMx]

@@sparkoceanic No Bike goes 300mph. Let alone an Ebike, silly!

[@lihtan]

I live in Canada. Over here, ebikes are allowed to have up to 500W motors, and the power assist has to cut out at 32 kph. Throttles aren't outlawed, but there are some trail systems where you can't bring an ebike with a throttle. My experience with a 500W ebike, is that it's power delivery is still anemic. The motor bogs down big time on any kind of fresh snow that's more than a few inches thick. I do find the throttle handy. I give it a quick bump when I start to get the bike moving. I also feather it in corners, as the bike doesn't carry much momentum on it's own. The throttle is great for getting out of the way traffic. On mine there's no cut out. I could hold it down all the way up to 32 kph, if I wanted to. Although fun, it eats up a power quickly. Even with that option, acceleration is still slow. If I need to dodge a car, I'll be pedalling furiously at the same time, to provide as much extra speed as possible. I know that there is some concern about throttle usage contributing to trail erosion, but even the 500W my bike has is still not enough to get the tire to break loose. I've also heard from older ebike riders that the laws banning throttle usage is also discriminatory towards people that have strength / health issues. I do find that many of the cheaper ebikes have poorly implemented power assist systems (especially the ones with cadence sensors), having a throttle is pretty much necessary to compensate for this. Obviously if you pay more money for an ebike, you'll get better control electronics (many of the better ones feel completely transparent, and have smooth progressive application of the extra power). I do agree that the regulations are pretty stupid. I wouldn't be surprised there was some auto industry lobbying to ensure that ebikes are crippled just enough through regulation, so that people don't consider them as serious replacements for their cars.

[@nickwebb9290]

I was visiting West London last autumn and couldn’t believe the amount of e-bikes being ridden very fast but with the riders not pedalling (this wasn’t on downhill slopes). The only answer must be that there are a lot of riders using what the Law would call illegal e-bikes 😳

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

Happens in my town as well. The police obviously don't care about it lol.

[@nickwebb9290]

@@JudeTheKZbinPoopersubscribe Sad isn’t it, they certainly don’t give us Council Tax payers Value for Money 🙄

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

@@nickwebb9290 I'll be honest i ride an electric mountain bike with a throttle around my town but do follow the rules of the road and don't speed around like an idiot. a lot of the ones riding very fast and dangerously are delivery riders.

[@paulwood7684]

When people realize the laws are useless they make their own laws up.

[@AI-Hallucination]

Good

[@Burz69]

Swapped my commute by car for an ebike. Cleaner, cheaper, faster and healthier. Got the Engwe EP2 PRO. Throttle is essential when turning right in traffic. The bikes too heavy to pedal start. I also leave it in a high gear because the chain hits the rear tyre wall in low gears. Poor design really, but overcome by the throttle. Limit to 25mph. Most of my journey off road, most around 15mph. Stunning though and much better than driving.

[@kjm-ch7jc]

Sounds like you want the advantages of a road legal powered moped/motorcycle without paying the cost of insurance/tax and licence. i think 15.5 mph peddle assist is ideal for its intended use. Most high end e-bikes have torque sensers and power boast for traffic light situations, we all know increasing the speed limit will not end there, riders will always push for more until these bikes end up as mopeds.

[@mattc3581]

Also sounds like you have a badly designed ebike which is pushing the rules as close to being a motor vehicle as it can without breaking them. Then you're complaining that the law needs to change to fix the design problems?!? Honestly if the pedals are touching the ground when you go round a corner, then you don't need to change the law to allow constant throttle, you need a properly designed bike with bigger wheels and pedals further off the ground. End of the day this is supposed to be a bike not a motor vehicle. The power is supposed to assist you, when it gets to the point of the cyclist not actually providing any motive force at all this shouldn't be classed as a bike anymore, that's the direction the law should change.

[@briansture4353]

@@mattc3581 Having more E-power bikes with tax and insurance is a good thing if a car hits you then his car insurance will have a fight on its hands. Moped tax and insurance are cheap. let's do it. You can run an e-bike for less than the price of a cup of coffee it is the way of the future, E-mobility for our clean-air cities. I am hoping within ten years the only vehicles that can enter a city area will be E-powered only. This law will change a few minds. Will it happen, of course, rock solid.

[@ASeSkater]

Great points mate! Really can't see why we cant have throttle assist, and higher motor power and top speed limits. Hope to see some reforms one day

[@e-VRC]

Cheers. Fingers crossed. Big reforms needed over all pevs 🤞

[@e-VRC]

@woolychewbakker5277 that's just an arbitrary classification. The rule doesn't make sense as they're removing something that can prevent injury.

[@e-VRC]

@woolychewbakker5277 nope. I want a graduated power delivery rather than a digital one. All Ebikes should just have the 6kph throttles on as standard since that is allowed by law. It would solve a lot of problems. The point of the video is that on/off pedal assist is more dangerous than a graduated throttle. Nothing more.

[@e-VRC]

​@woolychewbakker5277 when I said this: 7:20 I had people with £3000+ ebikes in mind. Hardly any resistance when the motor cuts out and generally extremely efficient. Still, a throttle or something like the green button on the eskuta would still be extremely handy for a hill start though.

[@mattc3581]

Well for a start, unlike cars, lots of people are riding ebikes on pavements and through pedestrianised areas. That's going to be significantly more dangerous than it already is if you increase the speed of them.

[@MadMaxGyver]

If you want an electric bike with a throttle and higher speed limit just get an electric moped (and stay out of bike lanes) !

[@DarthTinderalla-qm9zw]

Why? I live in the us where 28mph and throttle is legal

[@JamesGalipeau-h7i]

Ok. I live in a rural area in the States. My E-Bike has a top speed of 31 MPH using the throttle. Back roads, busy two-way highway, and no bike lanes. Let's make a deal. You spandex guys stay in your bike lanes, not block traffic, and let guys like me have higher speeds. Deal?

[@sujon.nazmul]

Is that electric moped legal in Europe?

[@videomentaryproductionschannel]

I totally agree with you, I have a Engwe EP2 Pro and I find that the throttle is ideal for pulling away from lights on a hill or when you have a car up your ass, also the change from throttle to peddle assist is smooth and you can be in any gear at the time, also yes your right 20 mph is an ideal speed , I think maybe the government need to be more concerned about the number of pot holes and sinking drains in the road, I nearly came a cropper the other day if I had not been holding the handle bars tightly I would have come off, I love your videos, keep up the good work 😊

[@e-VRC]

Love the ep2 pro. I bet the fat tyres helped a bit too when it came to that pot hole. Ride safe 🤟

[@BlokeOnAMotorbike]

an e-bike (or to be more technically accurate, a pedelec) should be pedal assist only. A moped (ie, pedal-and-pop) has a throttle as well as pedals (to get started in low gear and to start the engine if that's needed for a petrol powerplant) and requires a CBT and provisional licence. A motor scooter is throttle only, no pedals - ie, a motorcycle, with or without seat. I've known the difference since the late 1970s, what the hell is causing all the confusion??

[@e-VRC]

Not sure. Maybe you were typing whilst I was talking so didn't get the point of the vid? 😬😬😂😂

[@doktorbeton3976]

you have read that once again, all that is explained in legislation and if there is nothing about it it means it's not illegal. ebike is 250W and that's it really, everything else it's made off by dvla or police.

[@ashpunting]

I agree with everything you said using the throttle is safer going around corners I have to use the throttle when I'm setting off because I have osteoporosis, especially in my legs and a hip replacement I can't walk very well so my ebike helps me get out and I have got two mid-drive electric bikes so I do get up hills safely but I'm with you all the way the law needs to change and ride safe people 💙🙏👌🏾

[@e-VRC]

Glad ebikes are helping you get out. Mid drives! Nice 🤟👍

[@RichardNewman]

The walk mode button can be used to start from a standstill and is particularly helpful when starting on a gradient, particularly if the bike does not have a torque sensor.

[@ashpunting]

@@RichardNewman mostly I use the throttle to start then I pedal I think that's the safest way.😊

[@patomahony9747]

I’m with you on the e-bikes getting people with disabilities out and about. I have issues with my ankles ,after 50 feet I’m in a lot of pain. However can go miles on an ebike without issues. Recent bike week where I live an ebike buddy persuaded me to go along, lent me his Fido L3. We covered some where between 50 and 60 miles that day. I was delighted to see( from Eskuta school-250 review) that a throttle is allowed up to 6 km/h. At least one can temper the walking speed to one’s physical ability when walking. Take off from lights and hill starts when caught in wrong gear is a big plus. E bikes supplied with a standard throttle can be modified easily to allow them to be street legal by the addition of a resistor to the signal wire of the existing throttle. Current e bike throttles have 3 wires. + 5v, -5v and a signal wire. This signal wire USUALLY supplies between +1.1 v up to 4.2v when throttle is fully open. So by adding a resistor to this signal wire , it is possible to limit the amount of throttle to a max speed of 6 kmh. Only issue is that the value of this resistor will vary from bike to bike brand. My solution to this is to initially splice a variable resistor in to the signal wire, cycle the bike using the throttle and varying this until the max legal speed is attained. Measure the resistance of the variable resistor at this juncture and replace it with a standard resistor. This can be done just before the controller, where the throttle wires plug in, so nothing is visible in the external wiring

[@lesleykenwood2715]

I completely agree with that law, considering e-bikes are really, and resemble mopeds from the early 80's. I had to pedal to start it. The fastest it went was 15mph on the straight, 20 downhill. If it looks, has a throttle, then it's a moped.

[@TCHorwood-xq7mw]

This reminds me of the old moped laws, originally they had to be able to be moved by the MOtor or the PEDals, hence the name. This led to manufacturers making bikes that were technically within the law but more dangerous. Eventually the law was changed to limits on c.c., top speed and power.

[@BH4x0r]

I got the perfect way around the throttle thing i think, with torque sensors literally instantly measuring torque, manufacturers could make it that as soon as it feels pressure on the pedals it uses the power dictated by the throttle, now that would be a nice feature and i think that would be legal as it's still not a standalone throttle

[@petem.3719]

If torque sensors were economically feasible for all ebikes, all ebikes would have them, as they're objectively superior. The problem is, that solution excludes low and most midrange hub driven ebikes until someone can make torque sensors as cheaply as cadence sensors.

[@SmartGadgetShow]

Definitely agree more power motors needed for hills. Hills put me off cycling, and a small motor does not make me want an 3bike if hills are still going to be struggle.

[@pjgwiltshire]

Whisper e bikes now supply a full throttle E bike up to 15mph. Here is their notice info "Continuing our journey of pro-active leadership, innovation and progression within the e-bike industry we are proud to be able to offer fully UK legal, full-throttle eBikes that will power our bikes up to 15.5mph without pedalling." The bike after ordering is then taken to an MOT station and then certified. Then fully usable twist and Go

[@mattwoodford1820]

I think there should be ebikes kinda as they are with a limit on the speed assist. As to what that speed should be, I don't think I got enough experience on the road riding bikes to answer that. I don't think ebikes should have a throttle at all. I think there should be an eMotorbike classification for throttle based bikes, much like motorbikes, and that could be managed in the same way ICE bikes currently work. Fitter riders like the ebikes for the hill assist it gives, plus they are super handy at trail centres for being able to put in more downhill in a day as the climbs are not as tiring

[@FellRaven01]

To answer you question. If it has a throttle it's called a "Motorcycle" and you need a License, Insurance, Road Tax and a Helmet. Pretty much everything you have said here can be summed up as I want an Electric Motorcycle (Moped) but I don't want the legal restrictions that go with that.

[@mmodtomic7119]

I commented almost the Exact same!

[@oldboy5001]

A mobility scooter requires none of those things but has a throttle. It's the speed and power of a motorcycle that require it to be licensed, not the fact that it has a throttle. It makes sense in terms of safety to have a means of responsive speed control within the power range of any vehicle, and it can still be speed limited.

[@FellRaven01]

@@oldboy5001 From the Government Web Site :Mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs come in 2 categories: class 2: these cannot be used on the road (except where there is not a pavement) and have a maximum speed of 4mph class 3: these can be used on the road and have a maximum speed of 4mph off the road and 8mph on the road

[@oldboy5001]

@@FellRaven01 Not sure what point you're making here. It's still not defined by having a throttle, but whatever.

[@FellRaven01]

@@oldboy5001 How many wheels do mobility scooters have, how do they compare to e-bikes which are limited to 15.5mph. No relevance at all. I stick with my original point and your point is irrelevant

[@nbartlett6538]

I actually think the law has got it about right. It's all about trade-offs... remember this only applies to ebikes that can be ridden without a licence, tax or insurance, and by under-17s. If you want a more powerful motor and higher speed you can buy an electric moped and ride it around with L plates and a provisional, just like all the other millions of moped riders out there. If you want a bike that goes more than 15.5mph, then buy a good non-electric road bike and get fit enough to ride it well. Ebikes hit the sweet spot of an unlicensed bike that can be used for relaxed commuting or leisure travel in a city, without breaking a sweat and/or in hilly areas.

[@1pinestreet]

People always want to push the limit. You’re allowed to ride e-bikes but now you want the freedom to ride them like mopeds or scooters. Ignoring the laws might result in the banning of e-bikes altogether, which hurts a lot of people. Get something more appropriate for your desire for speed. Maybe get something sized for an adult, too. Pedaling with your knees practically hitting your handlebars or chest looks incredibly silly.

[@daved4547]

We should bring back the 'cycle proficiency test' 😎

[@LLF1234]

Lol what's that?

[@daved4547]

@@LLF1234 All junior schools, would run a cycle course laid out like a typical road with roundabouts and T junctions. You had to show you were able to handle your bike, do basic repairs (to get home) and know the highway code well enough to know for safe cycling. Our mothers would not let us ride until we had this certificate 🖖

[@LLF1234]

@@daved4547 That is actually great! I was thinking that was for adults though. Which country had this proficiency test?

[@daved4547]

@@LLF1234 The UK (Not any more though as it's gone Health and safety 'stupid') 🙄

[@LLF1234]

@@daved4547 Aint that the path the whole world is going? This sucks, as the program is actually very helpful and important, especially for kids. I have a few friends that to this date and age (a few decades old) don't know the basics of riding safely, and can't name basic parts on a bike. Don't understand the basics of gears (they've learned the theory in physics class, but can't comprehend how it actually works). Of course, they can learn right now if they want to, but with a program like this in schools, the whole population will be leveled equally which is important for society. I would explain more, but this post is getting huge :(

[@robp4564]

I run a bafang mid drive kit, happily maxes out about 33mph. Great in traffic, has throttle so can take roundabout's at with no pedal strike. Can pedal and enjoy the exercise or ride it like a moped when late for work! Even fitted throttle to girl friends 250w hub just by changing the electrical harness from a 1t3 to a 1t4 and just plugged it in. Next 36v to 48v bat swap and a decent programmable display and she might keep up with me....

[@jontownsend8090]

If you have a full driving license, i think these laws are ridiculous, but if you only have a provisional license or no license, you need to get some training. I have just got my ebike, and i can see certain issues being a driver of other vehicles, mainly that some drivers may not be expecting you to be flying through the streets on a bike. Most drivers will just see a pushbike and pull out, if this was an ebike, there could be problems. So training is a good idea for the less experienced on the roads.

[@DanielsPolitics1]

Yeah, I feel like he wants a moped without plates, tests, licences, registered keeper, penalty points, not an ebike.

[@EcchiVwV]

I've got an Engwe EP-2 Pro with the throttle disabled in case I get stopped by the police. I was coming home with my cargo box and backpack full of shopping once. Saw a red light coming up (bare in mind the crossing was on a slight incline), so I shifted down to second gear thinking I'd be fine getting going from a stop. I wasn't. Barely managed to keep the bike upright before the pedal assist kicked it. It was embarrassing because there was cars behind me and they probably had no idea why I was struggling to get going. I've even struggled to get going in first before when I've been hauling a heavy load. Even the slightest incline makes it so much harder to get going with the weight of the bike combined with the weight of all the stuff I'm transporting with it. It's put me in quite scary situations a couple of times. The law on throttles needs to change.

[@shm5547]

A brief history of e-bike throttles on new bikes sold in the UK: - 1983: throttles ok, bike limited to 200W power & max 15mph (UK law) - 2016: throttles not ok, bike limited to 250W power & max 15.5mph (EU law, extra 50W and 0.5mph, yay!) - 2019: throttles ok again! bike limited to 250W power & max 15.5mph (16mph accepted, UK law 250W Low Power Moped single vehicle approval required) Those three years when throttles were banned from new bikes has caused a lot of confusion. Despite what some people think, the only thing the EU regulations force a country to do, is to permit a vehicle matching those regulations to be sold and used in the country (it's a single market thing). It doesn't stop individual countries widening their own laws to allow other vehicle types.

[@patomahony9747]

Classic example of this is France with its 2 seat Citroen ami electric 4 wheel car. Any one over 14 or 16 can drive it.

[@border304]

It is 250w sustained output. Can be higher than that.

[@shm5547]

@@border304 yep, it can peak higher, the definition is: "‘maximum continuous rated power’ means the maximum thirty minutes power at the output shaft of an electric engine as set out in UNECE regulation No 85;"

[@border304]

@@shm5547 Cool. I certainly have no issues with hills in Turbo mode. :)

[@maxsullivanroyall9069]

Should be able to do 30mph and have up to 1000w motors like the USA does with class 3 electric bikes

[@billdaniel8310]

Here in Queensland Australia the state government has restricted bicycles even further now. The old rules used to be you can use electric power up to 25Km/h and if you wanted to go faster you had to pedal. Now from July 1st all bikes electric or pedal only the top speed is now 25Km/h and it's a $600 fine for exceeding that limit. As you can imagine all the guys/girls wanting to practise for bike racing like Tour de France are really upset over this restriction. I just wanted to add that Australia is under a lot of pressure from the U.N. to reduce its carbon footprint but when the citizens try to go electric with e-bikes to commute to work the government put out all these restrictions forcing everyone back into cars.

[@humourless682]

When "Wheeling" becomes common all over the UK, insurance and registration charges will be applied to all UK ebikes. These are related directly to ebike power, with more powerful ones costing more. The idea of this is to encourage users to hire ebikes from local authorities, which in many cases will work out cheaper, as the hire charge covers insurance, and the bikes are already registered. I am very surprised that these things are never mentioned, even though they are measures which were introduced some while ago, at the same time LTNs, were rebranded as LCWIPs? Anyone interested best to contact ATE for more information.

[@Trevor_Austin]

Great. Now what do we have to do to stop this lunacy? I do not want to hire from a local authority. I do not want LTNs. I do not be controlled by anyone. I want legislators to stay at home and do nothing.

[@philtucker1224]

There are plenty of faster motorised bikes out there. The definition of a pedal assisted push bike is the separation of definition of an assisted push bike, and a motorised bike (non pedal)…

[@Mezman999]

At what point will the laws change so you have to have a number plate and insurance despite having pedals? 100% agree throttles are way safer.

[@electric_boogaloo496]

For ebikes to be treated the same as regular bicycles, like no age or licensing restrictions, access to bike paths and such, the laws have to be restrictive. If you want the capabilities or the power of a moped or small automatic scooter/motorcycle, get just that. But all sane people would argue that having age and licensing requirements for motorcycles, scooters, mopeds them is a good idea. The "pedal assist bike" you are riding is an e-moped trying to pass itself off as an e-bike, with pedal placement and usability being an afterthought. None of those problems exist on properly designed e-bikes, like a Specialized Turbo Levo. Can be actually pedaled without assist, the SL (super light) models even more so. It has a proper pedal torque sensing controller, it can and does provide power from 0 cadence. You won't pedal strike going uphill anymore than a regular bicycle. Maneuvering tight spaces isn't an issue without throttle because its not built like a moped.

[@PaoloLuraschi]

Well said, all the crap “e-bikes” in this video are not designed at all to be pedaled, the idea is: we just glue a pair of pedals to comply (on paper) with the rules, who cares if the frame is heavy with bad geometry, the pedals hit the ground, wheels are ridiculously fat and inefficient, transmission is a joke and the motor control is without torque sensor and abrupt activation ? The manufacturer already knows that they are going to be used with a throttle, and they will be modded to produce more power to have decent performance and used basically like a moped. A decent e-mtb with mid drive motor from a serious manufacturer (Bosch, Yamaha …) and a proper 11 or 12 speed transmission, even much cheaper than the Specialized Turbo Levo, can ride basically everywhere on mountain trails, this even with the 250W limit and without a throttle. But such bikes are properly designed to be light and efficient so they do not need 1kW to go up a moderate hill. They are reasonably light and agile so that you do not need a throttle to move around obstacles and start moving. If you don’t need to go off-road there are valid city e-bikes with similar quality components that performs equally well.

[@timmaidens7483]

They also need licence plates so at least some of the riders that regularly run red lights at pedestrian crossings etc can receive an appropriate fine.

[@fatherwilliam7256]

Personally, I think a new legal category of vehicle is needed. Let's call it a personal electric vehicle (PEV). Let it be defined as any powered vehicle intended for only one rider and weighing less than some reasonable weight (say 50kg). Then just impose reasonable speed limits (25 to 50 kph) on PEV's, but otherwise treat them all like bicycles.

[@HenriZwols]

You mean like a moped?

[@MadMatty72]

When riding ( haven't lately 😥 ) I ride through a ford where I lift my legs a rely on throttle. I also throttle on corners to prevent being thrown off the bike from my pedal hitting the ground. I also throttle lightly ( de-power) to change gear to reduce load on the chain/sprockets. I think a throttles a must have.

[@tonybmw5785]

I can't agree I'm a motorcyclist and find it hard to accept that these powered two-wheelers are on the highway without any annual road safety testing (MOT). If you want more power speed then you are getting into the same power territory as a classic moped in which case you should really be treated as such and required to hold a CBT/insurance and identification (license plate). I know this won't be popular but since my wife had her arm broken by an e-bike rider who ran into her and rode off with a disdainful comment of 'stupid cu*t' for crossing the road at a pelican crossing when the green walk light was on my tolerance for such bikes has gone!

[@hegenious]

its not the bike, its the rider.

[@tonybmw5785]

@@hegenious bollocks! Its lack of training and cyclist arrogance that caused my missus to get injured! Get a motorcycle licence and insured then perhaps I'll listen to you otherwise please STFU!

[@CoolDudeClem]

I built my ebike. 1000w 48 volts. I never use the pedal assist (mainly because I dont have the tools to remove the pedals and attach it) I just use the throttle instead. Hell I even stand on the pedals and ride it like a scooter sometimes. I don't take it out on the roads or ride it at high speeds though. There's a path I know that rarely has anyone on it, so one day I'm gonna go full throttle along that path just to see what it can really do.

[@e-VRC]

Sounds awesome! Enjoy 🤟🤟

[@MinkieWinkle]

UK Ebike laws are silly strict. for me i do not want top end. i just want a bike that can tackle the valleys of Wales,. up down up down. up down. yeah, little 250W is fine for places like flat London. but in the real world not so much, i have long said i would still be happy with 15 Mph. but 250 watts simply does not have the power to get up those inclines.

[@bethesdaboyo]

Same here. I’m opting for the 750W to handle the hills in the Snowdonia range in the North

[@granthostheflatulent]

I have a 250W ebike I built before the throttle/pedal sensor law came in - parts imported from China and lead/acid mobility scooter batteries. It's great to ride and does not have a pedal sensor at all and no speed limiter - runs 21mph on the flat on the throttle - is it still road legal now the laws have changed? (For example a Model T Ford wouldn't pass a modern MOT but you can still drive them) BTW I do have a full unlimited motorcycle licence and I can't help thinking at least a CBT and road registration/insurance/number plates would cure a lot of the silliness around ebike laws.

[@viffviffer9804]

The 250W nominal limit is really only a number. All the uk legal ebikes I looked at had real output considerably higher than this, mostly between 400-750W. The nm torque figure is much more realistic

[@andysitton1703]

I agree with your assessment. I don't know what the actual 'power' of my cargo bike is, but with a stated 80Nm of torque and 160kg including me, it gets off the line a lot quicker than just me with no luggage on my conventional bike. (Slight caveat... I live in fairly flat country so I don't really know, or need to know, how it copes with steep hills.)

[@talos935]

I think the speed is set so low, because the question is where does a throttled e pedal bike stop and an e motorbike start? The other problem is with speed is higher risks of gravel rash and general injuries if you crash

[@UKTunedIn]

That delay after u stop pedalling is a death trap! Had that on one of my 1st controllers I installed on my ebike... Sometimes (alot of times!) I'd forget and end up being launched somewhere I didn't plan to be.... Especially around tight corners😫🤕

[@EcchiVwV]

Yeah. It's stupid and dangerous. There should be an option to turn it off. The solution I came up with is to tap the brake the second I stop pedaling to cancel the pedal assist. It's annoying having to remember to do it every time.

[@eggy1962]

Agree that the pedal assist delay is something to learn and adjust to

[@User-Hoffs-audits]

I’m a 19stone big guy who previously broke my right wrist twice, I have no controlled movement in my right thumb now so I would have to slide my hand across the grip to move a thumb controller? I purposely use a twist throttle on my e-bike for that reason and a oversized motor/etc to get up some local hills.

[@thinkpadBentnoseTheBlind]

good point about the top speed of cars. in Canada a 16 year old can by a Ford Mustang with 500 + hp that can go 0-60 in seconds and well over 150 mph/240 kmh . But locally people complain that the main highways should be twinned to make the roads safer. how about making cars that cannot go more than the speed limit unless it is an emergency vehicle .

[@e-VRC]

Crazy isn't it. Although i suppose cars are insured and it costs more to insure faster cars. But that's a none issue if the rich kid has the car bought for them.

[@Metalshark100]

I assume this wouldn't age well with car prices, imagine spending 100k on a car thats limited to 70mph. rip, this would be good for the average driver but car prices on cars without limits would go up. it'll be like a collectors item and become crazy with prices.

[@ngreen3151]

As an e bike owner myself (a legal & 15.5 mph restricted one) I can see the government's concern on restrictions. I fell off mine 2yrs ago at around 12mph & broke my right arm in 3 places after slipping on moss on a gentle curve! People who were not in the know IMMEDIATELY thought I was riding a unrestricted one due to press over mr Simon Cowell. Nope mine was a Halfords Carrera. The medical staff who treated me thought it may have been the weight of the battery that contributed to the injury. If that happened to me on a restricted one, imagine what an un-restricted one could do to you, bearing in mind no protective clothing is usually worn on one apart from a helmet.

[@stevezodiac491]

I have broken ribs, collar bones, elbow and neck of femur ( hip ) on a normal bicycle. The fastest I have ridden on my time trial bike is 60 mph in a mountain TT, on a long down hill section between Richmond and Stanhope. I have maintained 27.4 mph for 25 miles and got up to 42 mph max speed on the hardly hilly A19 in races as well, and that is without any electric motor ?

[@daveroche6522]

Good overview - nice one. Alas, sometimes we get really silly laws made & passed by really silly people who don't actually understand even the basics of the subject matter but their arrogance/pride won't let them simply ask! However, sometimes things actually DO make (at least some) sense - the MAX (power + pedal and/or gravity) speed will be 35kph here (Ireland) when the actual law is enacted later this year (Road Traffic and Roads Act 2023, Section 12 - thanx for askin'). I reckon 25kph is good for an eScooter (on which we have less protection than being in a cardboard box) - I tend to keep to 18-20 kph - fast enough the get me there (once I've made a proper plan) but not so fast I cannot actually enjoy - yes, ENJOY - the trip itself. Plus it extends the range (albeit slightly) Happy travels.

[@e-VRC]

Absolutely - enjoying the trip is an underrated afterthought.

[@Selwyn1]

So at what point does an e-bike become a motorcycle? You need a licence to ride a moped, the smallest class motorcycle, a lot of e-bikes can easily match the performance of a Moped with no licence, no training required and there is no insurance... Currently e-bikes seem to be a way to have a moped without any requirement for a licence or insurance...

[@donce666]

Throttle is a must in a city. Reason we have bicycle boxes. Tried pedaling from standstill, until the bike registers and kicks in, you will be wobbling around trying to pedal that 25-35kg bicycle which is dangerous. Some drivers are inconsiderate and they almost hug you while passing by which is when you could be hit. Throttle is exactly what you said in video - more attention to the road=safer.

[@markmay4954]

I have a Fiido M21 PRO and very simple to unlock the speed control. They even put a 250 watt sticker on the 500 watt motor to help you get around the law. I can cruise at 30 mph and if you see a copper just slow down a bit and ghost pedal. The police in most cases have not got a clue about the law and in 18 months of riding mine I have not been stopped once. My work is 6 miles from home and can do each way in 22 mins also.

[@fish4fun84]

i bought a old used ebike which was pre law change, bafang hub doesnt even have disc holes, came with throttle so just took all parts of that and transferred to a new frame, built new batt and thankyou, didn't do it on purpose to have a throttle as i didn't even know about any of the laws or rules then, but now i know well that is my excuse for having it, just need another one for why it does upto 30mph.

[@e-VRC]

Haha brilliant. Just say you're a fast pedaller and try to set the limit before you speak 😂😂

[@PierredeCur]

It used to be that way with mopeds: pedals were obligatory, although they were often an add-on to comply with the law with no real functionality. As usual, it was because those who design the laws do not understand the question...

[@stevemccormack9948]

The throttle on most ebikes is actually only a switch giving a blast of power. The only time I use it is to help taking off from the lights or at a busy junction to move quickly. After I am moving I only use the peddles. It also can serve as a walk mode if you have a heavy bike going up steps maybe.. But why the law makes a thing out of it is beyond me. It's not even relevant to any safety discussion and potentially makes it safer. The only exception being if you have a child who plays with it while the bike is switched on. An experienced user will know to switch the bike off when not in use of select PAS0.

[@martinphillips7545]

Let me share my perspective. I've been a cyclist for 60 years and been riding motorbike for 50 years since my first moped. I am also a trained engineer with an understanding of physics and the laws of motion. I have yet to get an ebike and experience and motorcycling has impacted how I cycle. The reasons for not having an ebike, yet, may become apparent below. Firstly I will talk physics. It turns out that the force of impact, how much damage is caused if you hit a car or tree, is related to the square of the speed that you are travelling at. What does that mean? If we just focus on the speed bit, if you are going at 10 mph the speed contribution to the impact would be 10 times 10, that would be 100 units. At 15 mph it would be 225 units and at 20 it would be 400 units, 4 times that of 10 mph and nearly twice that of 20 mph. At 30 mph it is 900 units. The amount of force in an impact greatly increases with speed. You can see why 20 mph zones are a good thing for vulnerable road users, the impact force is much less. you can play with real numbers here www.omnicalculator.com/physics/car-crash-force#force-of-impact-definition-impact-force-equation . You will also see on that calculator the heavier you are the more it hurts too! Ebikes in the UK are intended to be used by unlicenced, untrained riders, including children. There are no mandated safety equipment rules. That is because the continuous speed an average cyclist can do is between 12-16 mph, and a 15 mph ebike falls into the manual speed range. The risk and danger is no greater than cycling. You can get faster ebikes, speed pedelecs, but in the UK you need a licence, insurance and must wear a certified crash helmet since they are to all intents and purposes an electric moped. Would you want inexperienced children, riding around on unlicenced high powered ebikes crashing and killing themselves? I don't think so. Next...as I mentioned above forces involved in motion greatly increases with speed. A bike that routinely hits 20-30 mph may be subject to much greater forces and stresses than a bike that routinely hits 15 mph. The 15 mph ebike can be based on standard bike components since standard bike components are designed for an average maximum continuous speed of 15 mph. A bike regularly going 20-30 mph must have stronger wheels, frame, brakes etc. to deal with the increased stresses. This is why speed pedelecs have to be subject to regulation and stricter standards. They may be heavier and less suitable as a pedal only bicycle. Whilst you can put a high power motor in a bicycle frame, the bicycle frame and its components are not designed to take it. The above was the science, the rest is my personal opinion. As a motorcyclist I no longer cycle fast. If I am riding around town, a 20 mph town in most places, on my motorbike, I wear, as required by law, a motorbike helmet. I also wear a protective jacket, gloves and boots. If I have a tumble at those low speeds I have good protection. I realised years ago that I had been hitting 30-40 mph down hill on a bicycle only wearing shorts and a t-shirt, no helmet and no chance of stopping if a car came out a side turning. I have seen the damage caused by accidents at these speeds, it isn't pretty. Since I am not going to wear "all of the gear", to help prevent injury, just to get around town on a bicycle, I decided that I should probably not exceed the design speed of the average human. The average running (typical maximum human design speed) speed is between 8-12 mph. At around 10 mph you are less likely to injure yourself, more likely to be able to stop to avoid the car or pedestrian that appears in front of you. That is how fast I cycle most of the time. Since I don't plan on going fast I don't need a fast ebike. In fact since I have geared my bicycles to suit the hills of Brighton and the South Downs I don't actually need an ebike at all, although I have thought about getting one. If I do get one, a regular 250W/15 mph one will be good enough, I won't be hitting 15 mph. To the point about throttle vs pedalling. I would suggest that if a person does not have the competence to ride a bicycle then a person may not have the competence to ride an ebike of any sort. Stopping in the right gear is a basic part of cycling. We all get it wrong sometimes and it doesn't really matter. It is an inconvenience. Having additional power whilst pedalling is analogous to the dynamics of ordinary cycling. The term for an ebike is EAPC, electically assisted pedal cycle. It is assitance. Having a throttle turns it into a pedal assisted electric motorcycle, there is a difference. There are plenty of street legal electric mopeds and motorbikes out there, some of them are cheaper than ebikes and can carry things like shopping. just look at the electric moped pizza delivery guys. If you want speed, and the additional safety you can get from better tyres, brakes, without getting sweaty, get one of those. A final thought. If you are in the UK have you read the latest Highway Code from cover to cover? If you haven't you really should. You will discover that there is no such thing as "right of way" and that there is something called the Hierarchy of Road Users which defines much more clearly the way in which everyone, including cyclists should behave. I would suggest that if you haven't read it you probably should not be on the road.

[@MrAabbccddeeffgg]

You can pay £50 and get your ebike approved with a throttle - I think you have to go to Portsmouth. There's still no insurance or registration requirement. They will test that it is compliant with power and brake requirements, speed limit etc.

[@martinlb4541]

I have a kristall e5 e-bike had it for 4 yrs upgraded a few parts a long the way ! adding suntour suspension seat post and front forks I love this bike it’s 350w 48v with throttle and I can reach speeds of around 25 with the throttle. I am glad of the throttle,like you said it’s ideal for a quick start at traffic lights and I used it threw large puddles without getting feet wet 😂

[@robertparkinson2102]

I used to think the front end of a car was the most dangers bit, we are now a long way below 10 a day dieing from blunt force trauma in the UK. Pollution from tires and exhausts kills around 30,000 a year. But taking the lead at 100,000 deaths per year is inactivity. Cycling naturally linked speed with experience. Powerful e-bike would become another 'donor-cycle'.

[@paulm5443]

The lack of a throttle on the modern ebikes puts me off buying a new one. My old ebike has a throttle and it's so useful, especially for someone in their 70s like me.

[@slimshaydee1]

Are these laws even enforced? I built an ebike with a 1000w motor, throttle only and never bothered connecting the peddle assist. Never had a problem with the law (fingers crossed). I do about 31mph and other ebikes pass me all the time that must have 1500w moters doing 40mph+ i rarely ever see an ebike with 250w motor on the road.

[@GarrattHamster]

Dude stuff did a great clip about this a week ago. I agreed a lot of it but the only thing was his thought of top speed of 22 mph to 25mph. I think 15.5 with peddle assistances and throttle and then 20mph just peddle assistances. Young riders of 14 to 17 years old have up to 500watts, but then older. Can have 750watt. Plus what gets me is a good number of companies selling e-bikes do sell e-bikes with throttles. That’s one thing that gets me. And most of them not even speed restricted.

[@e-VRC]

Yeah I caught that a couple of days ago as I was putting this together. What timing lol. Great video though. I'd be happy with what you just suggested 🙌

[@GarrattHamster]

@@e-VRC lol yeah. Well I think it’s good timing. There’s a lot more people talking about this. And it the law should change. Like you said. There’s cars not speed restricted and the laws say they have to do certain speeds. And same with motors bikes as well. Really if there this up tight on e-bikes they should slap on speed limiters on all cars and so on. Does make you think don’t it.

[@e-VRC]

@garretthamster definitely. Yeah hopefully we can drive traffic to each other.

[@maynardchitty8896]

It's a bicycle. It's a heavy bicycle too. They get ridden on tow paths and shared-use paths. Rightly or wrongly they DO get ridden on pavements and pedestrianised precincts and such like. I'm afraid that 20mph is way too fast in such areas and it's facile to think e-cylists would "be sensible" and slow down. 15mph is plenty enough.

[@nungfish]

Bet you're fun at parties.

[@inzetajacklon1278]

Honestly i believe they should create a whole separate set of laws derived from motorcycle/bike laws, and make each other meet midway. Like have ebikes that can go the speed limit go the speed limit, if your ebike cost above a certain number then you're required to have insurance, and most bikes that has enough power to go the speed limit do cost a lot so there you go. Honestly I think the laws shoud just think of this as a whole seperate vehicle and maybe even create a license, theres so many ideas that can be implemented but only the wrong ones are implemented by people who don't actually own ebikes themselves.

[@e-VRC]

Good ideas. I think the american system works well. I wouldn't be against some kind of cbt too. And maybe a personal insurance (not per bike though I'd need too many lol)

[@utubeape]

if there were complicated licence and insurance etc then I would just get a noisey 125cc petrol motorbike so that I can have more power, screw the neighbours and CO2 etc

[@BH4x0r]

that's not really true, in Europe ebikes in general are very expensive and a generic ebike conversion with a Bafang BBSHD has more power than the average speed pedelec while costing 1/4th of the price if done right infact a SurRon actually costs less than all speed pedelecs that have some power in my country a generic high power ebike (over 5kW) can also be built for less than speed pedelecs problem is, then the EU etc will probly ask for a COC and VIN number which will probly be impossible to get as a non-manufacturer, which is one of the reasons i simply can't convert a bike and turn it into a speed pedelec for a far lower price, which sucks major ass to be honest thats the only reason i still ride a 25kph ebike, cause i just can't get around buying overpriced junk and i definitely wont lol

[@inzetajacklon1278]

@@BH4x0r you good bro just was spouting ideas because i just feel like it sucks.

[@BH4x0r]

@@inzetajacklon1278 the whole European legislation sucks, especially with the extremely overpriced speed pedelecs and all decent middrives on European ebikes exceeding 250W anyways

[@antonyjharper31]

This is so helpful thank you! I’m a disabled person that was thinking of trying an ebike but it’s no good if I have to pedal!

[@petem.3719]

Get a hub drive, remove the chain, and install a tiny secondary motor just to spin the crank. It wouldn't take much since it would be doing no work beyond complyong with the law and moving your feet up and down as fast or slowly as you want. That would be good for your circulation.

[@DelticEngine]

My understanding is that it is all down to a law from the 1800s (1835?) saying no-one is allowed to put a powered vehicle on the roads hence we have to have a licence which grants special permission to do this.

[@DanielsPolitics1]

That’s not the legal structure now.

[@Eb3nez3r]

I decided to stick a GPS speedo on my MTB for my 22 mile ride to work. 15.5mph is actually really slow on the flat and downhills and up hill I'm usually at 9-10mph. If I get a kit it needs to do 20-25mph :)

[@whitemark84]

yea i totally agree the Throttle control is an issue, sadly i watched an older lady on her bike get run over at a crossing, her bike didn't have cut of brakes as expected and wenn she got to the crossing she changed down gear as you do that ment however pedaling so because of that the bike pushed her more forward and got ran over from a HGV

[@e-VRC]

Oh no that's terrible.

[@davidmaskew]

I agree that the assist limit needs to be 20mph and a boost button for setting off especially on hills is a good idea and I think this exist on some eMTB models too. I think there comes a point though when you have to ask yourself do you want an Ebike or an electric moped? There has to be a cut off point somewhere.

[@e-VRC]

Agreed. I think moped being 28mph, ebike being 19 or 20 is decent. But without a power limit so they can still do hills and carry heavier riders. Despite speed and power though which you can easily argue the current rules make sense... throttle doesn't. I haven't heard anyone come up with a reason why throttles shouldn't be on an ebike.

[@davidmaskew]

@@e-VRC Yeah, I think it's basically just all to do with them actually really being pedal assisted rather than fully electrically propelling the bikes motor. I'm not against it personally but I can see why it is there to differentiate between an Ebike and electric moped. If you're not pedalling how can other people tell the difference is maybe the reason. I see a lot of food delivery people using obviously unrestricted throttled bikes though and they don't seem to be stopped. Many near where I go are no way restricted to 16mph I'd say some are easily doing over 30 sometimes, I can understand they need more power for carrying goods so maybe they have different laws? I know they aren't electric mopeds because they should have a reg plate if they are?

[@e-VRC]

@davidmaskew they're just getting lucky tbh. Police do turn a blind eye to people seemingly being responsible which is fair enough since you want them to be after proper crims. I suppose the rule is a bit funny as of course with an ebike you aren't actually helping at all or at least you don't have to. They want ebikes to be 'electrically assisted' but actually they can get away with being fully 'electrically powered' (ghost pedalling) and that's judged to be ok then it doesn't make sense that throttles aren't. Lol I think we cracked it 😂🤟

[@oliversteiner2235]

actually its 27.5km/h. ( 25+ 10% of tolerance ) and the motor also can have 600w of peak power. the vanmoof s3 or s5 put out 500w of peak power with the boost button.

[@Withered_Souls187]

Exactly why E bike speed laws need to change. in California some of us leave on or near streets that have hills, hills that you have no choice but to go through, and some can get pretty steep, 20mph I’m not sure about, and 15? I really doubt it can make a huge incline

[@NullaNulla]

That piddly thing @8:00 would be USELESS where I live as the wheels would fall down into the pot holes and launch you over the handle bars! Question, the bike you were using demonstrating the gearing being a PITA to start with if caught out (yep used to hate that on the mountain bike and racing bike when I was younger), I like the fact you can use the throttle to at least start your bike moving as you presented. Now the question is, how do you get a larger (maybe not so legal) motor (say 500w since I'm a larger person ... not as much tubby as tall and built brick craphouse) fitted to the bike and preferably without being obvious? Is it a new hub/wheel or something else? I've no interest in getting over 60km/h as it hurts too much when you come off at them speeds and yes I've managed them speeds on a racing style bike without the motor. I agree 100% it should be a speed limiter not throttle, etc limits.

[@e-VRC]

Hi, there are quite a few online retailers that sell ebikes that are more powerful than 250w. And there are also bikes that are marketed as 250w but are actually much more powerful. An example being the Engine X from engwe. All Super73 bikes are generally a lot more powerful than 250w too - they have an 'off road' mode. But are marketed anf badged as 250w. And yeah little wheels and potholes should never mix 😬😬😂😂

[@aperocknroll88]

In my state 500w motor with PAS and Throttle is still a class 2 so long as the speed limit is 20mph or under.

[@iallso1]

I live in New Zealand and have seen e-bikes on the road doing 45kmph. I have no problem with this, I ride motorcycles and 45 is still slow in comparison. The two things that concerned me were the lack of protective gear being worn, at 45kmph a crash is going to cause damage to the rider. The road positioning taken by the riders. Roads marked with cycle lanes often place the cyclist between the parked vehicles and the "live" motor lane, this puts the e-bike rider close to the parked vehicles, while travelling at speed, andobscuring them from emerging vehicles, what could possibly go wrong? As a motorcyclist I would be riding close to the centreline to increase my visibility into intersections and likewise make myself more visible to vehicles emerging, I'm wearing full M/C gear and have passed training courses to assess my capability to ride on the road. I think e-bikes should be permitted to go faster, but restricted dependent on who is riding and their level of experience.

[@luked2767]

In the UK you can have a throttle but the law was cut off. I usualy put a low watt and a year before the cut off of the throttle but I've never been pulled

[@liberality]

A pedal striking the ground while cornering has to do with the ratio of bottom bracket height to crank length, plus the shape and thickness of the pedal at the outer edge. The simplest solution is to fit shorter cranks and slimmer pedals, since the standard 170mm crank is derived from road bikes and the 175mm from mountain bikes, both to fit taller people. The average person will be fine with a 165mm crank, and adults with short legs would be better off with a 160mm. Another solution would be to have a tilt sensor within the bike that can detect cornering.

[@e-VRC]

What would it do when it detects cornering?

[@liberality]

@@e-VRC I was imagining a mid drive e-bike motor could switch into generator mode when the controller detected a tilt of sufficient angle to cause a pedal strike, the resistance effectively locking the pedal cranks into horizontal orientation for a split second.

[@elnasty555]

I got a bafang mid drive and a tongsheng mid drive ebike both with throttle. The bafang throttle makes it like a scooter ie no pedals. The tongsheng throttle works to 7mph then it slows you down if you still use it and pedal. The throttle legality and a throttle is legal on a bike built before a certain date is daft.

[@insoft_uk]

500W throttle up to 15Mph max for 2-3 minutes for moving off when light turns green after that 25Mph peddle assist

[@cresshead]

I have a Haibike mid drive with a Yamaha motor - works really well for me.

[@dusanmal]

Fundamental problem that causes all nitpicking is... perverse decision to treat these vehicles as "bicycles". Remove that and all can be solved. All "e-bikes" have a motor. Hence, by common sense they are a motor vehicle. Designate them as such because obviously, they are. Require registration, license, insurance. Remove all limiting laws - you want to design it with throttle - do so, you want 2000W motor - do so, remove pedals all together - do so. But, also, do not drive these motorcycles in bike lanes and in places designated for human powered bicycles. Don't pretend that you drive a bicycle, no you are not you are motorist on a motor vehicle.

[@ShardCollector]

The most obvious argument against this law in my opinion is that there are a lot of 250W e-scooters (or "scoots") that only have throttle. Why are they legal if ebikes aren't? Maybe we should try to register an ebike as "pedal assisted scooter" to show the obvious flaw in the system?

[@e-VRC]

Sadly they're illegal here too. But people ride them anyway 😂

[@snowwhitehair485]

I still have a Sinclair Zita, (remember them?), fitted on my pushbike. As this is operated with a push-button rather than turning the pedals, (i.e. pedal assist), does this mean that it is illegal? When they first came out, (almost 30 years ago), they were fully legally compliant. It's worth mentioning that even at 250 watts it is VERY underpowered. A 250w 'Voi' rental scooter has much better performance.

[@e-VRC]

Wow I'd never seen that before, just read about it. Very cool! Any kid with that in the 90s would he the coolest kid on the block. Especially added to one of those 'computer bikes'. I wonder why I never heard of it. Good question about legality now. I'd say since it's old and once was legsl it can get away with it. Thanks for commenting 👍👍

[@jimdavis8391]

Laws are strict in the UK because it is full of antisocial behaviour. If people grew up they'd be treated like adults.

[@border304]

Doesn't stop the idiots though does it. They still go 50mph on illegal scooters on the pavement while the rest of us suffer. Stupid laws anyway. Cars are the cause of almost all the accidents.

[@Delete_DeLolz]

I ignore the silly laws i have a 750w with a throttle and love it

[@jerzywoking1699]

I'm sure burglars think the laws on house breaking are silly.....

[@HenriZwols]

So you have an electric moped?

[@AlexOnABoat]

If you've got a 15.5mph speed limited ebike, then I don't see why you shouldn't have a throttle, even if I'm not totally convinced by some of your arguments as to why you should (looking silly for instance). The green button thing does look like a good compromise, I'm guessing it's basically the 6kmh walk-assist function? But I'd rather something that will give you a burst of 100% assist at any speed within the limits, solves the getting away at the lights, solves the whoops in in the wrong gear (although if you can't master gears should you be cycling at all?), and solves the this bike has been poorly designed so the pedals got the ground when I lean (although that's really just sloppy design). So I'll go for a burst of throttle thing please, ten service seconds of boost and then it cuts out unless it senses I'm pedalling.

[@RubettesMick]

I wonder if you could do a video on registering a higher powered e-bike. I'm a big lad and am 61 years old and I've bought a bike to get back into cycling and keep fitter, but I didn't really do my homework and just bought the highest power one in my budget range. I've insured it but the insurance probably wont pay out as I have found out its illegal. I looked on the .gov site but my small brain can make had nor tail of it..

[@SilverWatcher.]

Greetings frpm America We are natural law breakers. The onyx rcr is 5 thousand us dollars It goes 65 mph and has pedals 😅 But if i was following laws yeah id be slow as molasses cheers

[@martinpook5707]

I do have a throttle because my bike is pre January 2016 (although upgraded to mid drive.) I live in a rural area which is very hilly (steep ones) so 250 watts is a problem so more power please, but 20mph is as much speed as I need.

[@GregStewartecosmology]

Maybe sometimes a throttle makes you complacent and then you are less alert? and maybe sometimes with pedal assist only it can signal your intent of momentum to drivers, for eg. if not visibly pedalling they may think you are slowing down or something like that if you know what i mean?

[@e-VRC]

@@GregStewartecosmology first good point against throttle 👍👍👏👏