THE CURSE (2023): A generation-defining journey into the rotting millennial soul

Episode 95: We spend 2 hours discussing the disturbingly prescient THE CURSE (2023) from Nathan Fielder, Benny Safdie and Emma Stone. Special guest Rémy Bennett joins us for One Fucking Season -- our new spin-off format for covering TV shows.
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Copyright Disclaimer: Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.

[@jerrygarcia5806]

This is about the 30th video I’ve seen discussing the series as a whole. Granted, it’s niche but there are a lot of conversations happening. The Curse subreddit is exploding.

[@MeatCatCheesyBlaster]

I will watch every analysis of this show even though they’re all pretty much the same lol

[@kazacademy9703]

can you make a playlist of all the videos bud

[@Lucky_Daguenet]

I don't think anyone has brought up the fact that; 1. Dougie curses Asher, that's why he takes personal blame and apologizes. And 2. Nathan curses himself by telling her "if i ever feel like you don't want me I'm gone, you won't have to say anything" and Even though she says "i don't want you to fly away" she doesn't mean it. She DOES want him gone. Ultimately they're both bad people, but Nathan in the end actually did correct his behaviors. He whistleblows, he attoned. He's the one who initiated giving Abshir the home. He's the one who puts in the work. But then he buckles to Whitney's corruption and false bravado. She's the one that wins because when it comes to money and fame, only those who are willing to sacrifice and use the people who love them are the ones who are successful.

[@tennenyt5311]

Could argue that he only did those things to please Whitney and not because it was the right thing to do though

[@1OldPacman]

Giving the home isn't exactly a good deed because you're giving it for the wrong reasons and to a bad person.

[@moonmonkey5182]

​@1OldPacman We have no reason to believe Abshir is a bad person.

[@1OldPacman]

@@moonmonkey5182 He's a squatter.

[@Wagglezzz]

this is so well put and astute!

[@ayaxsoul]

What makes the scene of Asher in the comedy class more disturbing and sadder it's that Asher considers himself a funny dude, and when nobody response the way he expected to his weird attempt of being funny it's just devastating. The only crumb of personality he has it just gets obliterated in front of him. Atrocious to watch.

[@znajkay]

Asher says outright that HE is the curse. And curses end by being LIFTED. After the curse is lifted, Dougie realises he's selfish, and Whitney smiles a genuine smile for the first time.

[@mermaid9422]

🤯

[@HeyJudie]

Yeah but Whitney is a genuinely shitty person without Asher's influence. She may treat the child with contempt just as she treated Asher. Dougie realized he was at fault in the past, and did not do nearly enough to change his behavior. So, how is Asher the curse?

[@jackrdy]

@@HeyJudie As per dougie, we see him crying with guilt after Asher’s final ascension to no where. I see this as an inverse of what happened with his wife. Throughout the series he is clearly in denial that her death was his fault, then we see him saying “it’s all his fault” about Ashers sudden death (?). I see this as a catharsis of his guilt for killing his wife, plus also the feeling of being guilty for seemingly not believing Asher was actually going to fly into the sky, or perhaps thinking his own curse is the reason for it. Per Whitney, I don’t think it’s so much that Asher is THE curse in her life, just that she is now free to become the “Green Queen” and with her newborn child has the family that HGTV wants to make part of the show. Asher is IMO a curse, but the entire mission of both Dougie, Asher, and Whitney is cursed from the start as they desire to create a front facing reality to present to the world while their real lives and goals are completely intertwined with the exploitation they deny being part of. Idk if that answers anything but that’s my interpretation.

[@heloise6220]

oh my god the LIFTED metaphor, I'm only getting it now

[@theminayang]

He isn’t just the curse. At the end after Asher dies and gets sucked up in the sky, you can see the pov of the curse walking around town back to their house. It’d be nice to think the curse goes away into the sky and it’s all done and no one will get hurt anymore, but no. I think that’s just the beginning of the curse. Also throughout the show, u can see the pov of the curse spying of them thru windows, behind objects, and even following them. So creepy. Christopher Nolan touches on this in an interview with Benny safdie emphasizing different povs and the curse is just one POV.

[@Progressunlikely]

"Satire is people as they are; romanticism, people as they would like to be; realism, people as they seem with their insides left out." - dawn powell

[@courtneys.7113]

i’m half shocked and half totally understanding of why this show hasn’t made such a big splash. i’ve hardly seen people talking about it. it’s a real treat to get people talking about it for 2 hours (though it seems like you guys need a talking stick or something lol) for me, i started the first episode and, LITERALLY, 5 minutes in i knew this was gonna be a banger and made my roommates come out to watch it with me. i remember when The Rehearsal actually got some press, obviously people praising the hell out of it like it deserves but also controversy around its ethical boundaries. but this show has nothing really around it. i blame paramount lol

[@zombweed4821]

That scene with Abshir at the chiropractor, fucking hell. That was hard to watch.

[@sajking7269]

Genuinely one of the most upsetting and panic inducting things I've seen on screen, it made me physically nauseous

[@looool8250]

I thought that he was gonna get killed... very suspenseful.

[@sidmf]

it gave me the feeling that something went loose in that moment. Kind of like the ending shots of the town and the camera going back into the open door of the house like it gives that feeling of release of something malicious.

[@LouKessler]

Best KZbin video I've seen talking about this show! I think it's a brilliant piece of art about Millennial subjectivity. It feels so far ahead of the curve. Unlike “Nathan for You” that allows for a comfortable distance, this show demands introspection from the audience. It looks to what humans have deemed 'cringe', and takes it to place outside of just contempt or mockery. It's really funny that the curse subreddit completely misunderstood what the show was about.

[@MartinDef_]

Gotta say, I loved every second of this. Great conversation guys. So interesting to hear your thoughts about the show. I was totally blown away by the finale. What an absurd fever dream.

[@roccosims]

Boomer here back again - I totally get this series. It explained so much of my thinking that I couldn't put into words or even explain.

[@RedHedDes]

Was very surprised to hear that people disliked the show. I agree with most of what you guys said. Great discussion, especially surrounding the generation aspect of subject matter and themes.

[@wakegary]

Wow, y'all are great. Subscribed when I heard "our souls crushed and compacted". 0:15:20

[@dwarfchron801]

I couldve listened to you guys talk about this for another 2 hours! Great conversation! I truly believe The Curse is one of the greatest pieces of art ever made. I love it so much.

[@rollergirl808]

Daniel Lopatin aka Oneohtrix Point Never did this score as well as all the Safdie Brothers’ films. He’s a master at creating feelings of tension and anxiety thru his discordant synths.

[@user-cq5sg9cb4t]

Yeah, very recognizable. As soon as I heard those mysterious synths, I knew who it was.

[@ts4gv]

Oh wow can't believe i didnt put that together

[@thatguyfromthatthing8573]

No he didn't. He 'produced' in that he put them in touch with jazz composer John Medeski who scored the show

[@emilymitchell6823]

First time seeing this channel - great discussion! For me there was a similar tone to Twin Peaks The Return in some ways. If you haven’t seen the Christopher Nolan interview with Benny and Nathan, they say some really insightful things about why they chose the tone and structure they did.

[@brennamorrissey6151]

Agree with the Twin Peaks comparison, and I know it’s been said a lot, but I think it’s pretty apt especially if you subscribe to Twin Perfect’s theory of Twin Peaks being a tv show about tv.

[@emilymitchell6823]

@@brennamorrissey6151 OMG I forgot about that masterpiece of a video! Might have to watch that again

[@heysatan8]

It's funny you mention Twin Peaks. The name Dougie kept making me think of that show as well haha.

[@LJScott1974]

Thanks so much for this fantastic discussion. Just found you guys, and very much looking forward to listening to more of your amazing commentary and analysis.

[@coryz2822]

I was watching this show with my dad and at the end of episode 9 when it all ended after Asher's monologue to Whitt my dad just looked at me and giggled and said "what?" I knew at that point that that was the real end of the show, that was the final character development of Asher saying "all my problems are because of me not some curse." I knew that the last episode would be some kind of weird and wacky A24 coda, but I was still surprised by episode 10. I LOVED the last episode. I love that none of the various story lines wrapped up. When it started half way through with him on the ceiling I said I hope this is how the whole show ends with this fever dream and then it did! I loved that they didn't show anyone waking up, they didn't explicitly say it's a dream, it just ends.

[@chucklebutt4470]

If you haven't watched the talk with Safdie at the Lincoln Center for ep 10 you should check it out. Him and Nathan started the show with the ending in mind as the finish line and wrote backwards from there. Blew my mind.

[@williammahaffey354]

Really great conversation, makes me want to rewatch the show again. You guys mentioned it in this episode, but you should put Twin Peaks The Return on the list for the next time you do this.

[@basquat76]

Asher is the classic settling down guy. It reminded me of those nerd movies from the 80's They don't get the girls now but when they are ready to settle then it's their turn. He married above his weight class and out of fear of loosing her again he goes along with everything she wants, like a stoopid reality show which he is so not equipped to do. He's the last person who should host a show. The whole show he's so uncomfortable in his own skin it's painful and heartbreaking to watch. He's trying so hard to be that cool guy but it's just not there and he's still being bullied by everyone. At one point they bring up Rodney Dangerfield and discuss his comedy, and that's who he is. He is every Dangerfield joke rolled into one. The no respect guy.

[@icemaglite]

Such a good Comment

[@basquat76]

@@icemaglite Thank you. That's very nice of you to say.

[@Daniel-tx2vt]

Should’ve done the investment banking route like Dougie mentioned, but unfortunately that “need to find love” strikes again😂

[@Wagglezzz]

I agree, it's a very well said observation

[@amyk6319]

I love how people keep calling "The Curse" new and groundbreaking. Does no one remember The Comeback on HBO? It was the original cringe reality spoof and aired almost 20 years ago. The Comeback was more comedic than the Curse, but it was a great show. Many people didn't get it at the time, but it had a cult following. So they did a second season 10 years later in 2014 that was just as good.

[@eucalipto9724]

i googled it and it seems very interesting, ahead of its time maybe. ll watch it! thanks!

[@amyk6319]

@@eucalipto9724 yes it was before its time. People didn't get the cringe back then but it built a cult following which is why they brought it back for a second season 10 yrs later.

[@MiqelDotCom]

Watching this show felt like having 5000 hangnails. Phenomenal acting, uncomfortable pacing, and literally 1000s of cringe-inducing microscopic awkward interpersonal exchanges in every scene. I've never seen any of Nathan Fielder's other work but this makes me want to check it out.

[@jaromchristensen5598]

Watch Nathan for You, you are gonna love it

[@unfoldingcactus33]

Have you watched his other stuff yet?

[@brist0pher]

Please please watch the rehearsal, you'll love it!!

[@phaedrus7971]

I’m on episode 4. It’s a deep show to discuss. The theme of the show, I think, is that we all affect other people way more than we think. The girl said “I curse you” because she was repeating a TikTok trend. She didn’t think that it’d affect the guy that much. I know that I’ve hurt people unintentionally, particularly when my self-esteem was low.

[@mastercontender6139]

I can’t get this show out of my brain

[@mollspice7]

though i agree that 1 hour per episode is excessive i could easily listen to 10 hours of this convo

[@E_LAPL]

Fantastic, engaging conversation about the Curse.

[@hamzasyed]

I find it telling that the generational faultlines they are discussing are also on display amongst themselves. The older guy in the white shirt is quite comfortable talking over people without picking up on it being inappropriate, but younger people have been socially conditioned to be hyperaware to such social cues and wouldn't want to do that at the risk of being perceived as rude. And in turn, this comment (made as it is by me, a younger millenial/older Gen Z) is evidence of the passive-aggressiveness that is viewed as more socially acceptable now.

[@siobhan5486]

Yea

[@xbaby3273]

I am such a people watcher like my grandma and I think this and Nathan for you is such genius

[@pieterkok7486]

I watched this show because you announced it next week, and I am glad I did. Great discussion! You threw some shade on the current state of cinema at the start of the show, and not entirely undeservedly. However, I would very much like to see your take on The Zone of Interest. Subject matter aside, for me this shines as a truly innovative work of art.

[@OneFingHour]

Loved Zone of Interest! Probably my fav movie of the year. -evan

[@daltonanderson3718]

A Holocaust movie nominated for best picture, shocker. I would like to see if there is any irony to this movie in how it could certain about genocide being conducted on Jews while Israel is conducting a genocide on Palestine while the rest of the world remains purposefully ignorant or rabidly supportive of it.

[@ferragus6737]

@@daltonanderson3718 cringe take, ty for sharing

[@daltonanderson3718]

@@ferragus6737 bet you can't tell me I'm wrong , dork.

[@HeyJudie]

I dunno, I'm a millennial woman in my late 30's and I didn't recognize any of Emma Stone's outfits or products. I also don't really want to buy expensive makeup or clothes.... I shop at the thrift store and at the drugstores. My face masks are like $10 for a whole jar that lasts two years. But anyway, I do *wish* I could buy a brand new Subaru, so there is something at least a little true about the aging millennial woman "wanting to be good" but not really. I'm not convinced that men aren't the same though. Oh.... I also wish I could travel! Comment if you're a millennial who has never travelled outside of the US or who has never owned a brand new car!

[@raremood333]

excellent commentary. i enjoyed this series SO MUCH and get disheartened seeing how little attention overall it's getting or real genuine analysis cos this shit is DEEP. i sense like y'all said that it will take some time for The Curse to be fully appreciated as the instant cult classic that it is. Ahead of its time, surely. On the level of Atlanta and Twin Peaks--that same realm. Thanks for the discussion, this was great to listen to!

[@jayshiggs]

The guy in the white sweater acts like his commentary is going to be, "Oh, let me just say this one little thing . . ." And goes on and on and he can't let anyone finish. Reprimand him please!

[@zombweed4821]

They have a spray bottle for that.

[@hughmackechnie2104]

Great convo.

[@EdillColon]

The best series I've seen in a long time.

[@sidmf]

just watched a video about the moment where asher bombs in the comedy class and this guy described it as somewhat violet in terms of Asher’s outburst seeming like a mock of a mentally disabled person. Even if it wasn’t his intent or his first thought to punch down in that way it still gives a good way to look at why the class doesn’t laugh at it. It seems like a mock of another person plus he doesn’t laugh at the other people’s attempts and in turn they don’t react to him.

[@michaelelliott2194]

You gotta do the Sopranos at some point so you can honour "mothafuckin' god damn orange peel beef" again!

[@Signorellielli]

What a great way to wake up

[@davo312]

i’m gonna say it, this show is probably the most scathing criticism of white liberals in america since Dr. strangelove

[@MrLcowles]

What a dumb thing to say.

[@davidmonaghan7926]

@dangerousd1312 absolutely!

[@davo312]

@@MrLcowles lol okay

[@Tickerchicken]

Literally was watching it and thinking ‘is this liberal white guilt simulator’ the way the couple talk is like seeing Twitter people in real life

[@mermaid9422]

What an intelligent discussion. Love it! Greetings from Germany 🫶

[@contorta960]

Starts around 6:24

[@bgarri8001]

Great discussion as always!

[@Dd94949]

I'm pretty sure they are a narcissist and boderline, or closet narcissist, pair. Historically the gender would have been male/female but they flipped it and went female/male, which makes sense now that women control such a large portion of the economy. The definition of a personality disorder is that you lack a coherent, solid, sense of self - so you are always reflexively defending against what they refer to as "maternal deprivation" or a sense that nobody loves you as you are. In the end they are both "invisible" because he literally floats away without her, and she can only exist in the eyes of someone who worships her which in the end, will be her defenseless child - and she will hand her trauma down to her child by neglecting them as she was once neglected.

[@Innoonlaad]

Great analysis, but you have a problem with not letting each other speak. All of you seem concerned that someone else will be the first to voice things you wanted say. Would be nice to see you build on each other's ideas rather than compete. Otherwise, it was great

[@NathanielLongchallon]

That opening scene is fucking hilarious.

[@peterengelen2794]

Incredible tv show, unlike anything I've ever seen, disturbing, cringy, hilarious (tho, again, in a very cringy way), with amazing performances, especially by its lead cast, who are imo one of the most off putting characters in tv history. Btw, a very pivotal moment of Emma Stone's ''Whitney'' is at the ending of episode 5, when (I think) she finally realizes who she really is, an epiphany of self-awareness. Greetings from The Netherlands.

[@Signorellielli]

THE FIRE BURNS OOOON!

[@mollspice7]

THE FIRE BURNS OOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNN

[@rollergirl808]

I almost spit out my drink when that song started. Pitch perfect dark satire. Incredible. Verhoeven would be proud.

[@daltonanderson3718]

Overall it's a critique of neoliberal upper middle class generation that front an act of social conscious performance while having basic conservative ideals to appease an almost objectionist value.

[@particle-dots]

great discussion - did anyone notice any similarities with the films of nic roeg?

[@djstarsign]

Now that you mention it, I can see that. For me it reminded me of a mixture between Buñuel’s absurdist movies, Dogme 95 films, and movies like Funny Ha Ha, as well as the kind of wtf is happening of a movie like Godard’s Weekend or Made in USA. It also has the uncanny of some of Lynch’s work. It definitely feels like a perfect mix of The Safdies and Fielder coming together. Am really digging that the show exists and is a conversation starter.

[@lookaftering5638]

Love this conversation, wish it was longer !

[@djcoinlaundry]

Reminded me of Todd Margaret.

[@MsLizChatham]

Did Albert Brooks crawl so Nathan Fielder could fall?

[@jamesedwardclard]

Whats the remix of the Zombies song you used for the intro Zee?

[@FloatingWeeds2]

Got a nitpick for you. If you want to use marxist framing for your interpretation of the show's socioeconomic themes, dont equate "petit bourgeois" with "rich". It means lower middle class. That group would be exemplified by having the netflix subscription & 65" LCD TV bought during Black Friday normally $400 but on sale for $250

[@mollspice7]

AHHH so excited trying not to write too many comments. Tom I like your rapture theory re: "the curse" but I think Benny and Nathan are wayyy too culturally Jewish to evoke anything Christ-y. I read a review that reference some concept in Jewish mysticism that I thought was really cool about creating and re-creating the world, but I can't find it now! There is also something "re-birth-y" about the reverse gravity, that could be more of a reference to the eternal return... Don't know if that makes sense but I wish I could find this article!

[@Horror-Man]

A 2 hour One Fucking Hour video??!! Who are you people??!!

[@basquat76]

Maybe they've been bodysnatched.

[@m.c4210]

I have met soooo many Whitney’s in my life. Never presented in tv or film.

[@AdAstra78]

Wish I could share the love. The Curse had a really interesting tone, but a lot of it fell flat for me. Had it been 4-5 episodes it could have been superb.

[@TheBasketballArchivist]

Completely agree, I’m glad they took the swing and love everyone involved but I found it very underwhelming. Interesting ideas just wasn’t that well executed imo and I thought the finale was quite bad. To each their own I guess

[@Wraiven22]

Sad thing is that the people who need to see and understand this show probably won’t see it, and if they do they won’t understand it. As a leftie, I’m always down to see a takedown of faux-enlightened wealthy liberals who completely ignore class issues in favor of identity and virtue signaling. There’s no environmental/racial/social justice without class justice.

[@kolapse320]

You failed to recognize the part where they mock the left too. Being too nice to people who don't give a fuck about you. Give someone your house and watch them just say oh thanks but can you like leave now because i have my crack buddies visiting and we want privacy

[@reviewinitup]

I enjoyed your conversation and The Curse but were your comparisons to Better Call Saul supposed to be negative towards BCS? For me, Better Call Saul is clearly the better show. A masterpiece whereas The Curse is merely pretty good.

[@garstychia]

I think they were referring to how the creators made us aware of how we expect to be able to pick up on little details and look for clues in the show to 'solve the mystery'. The Curse subverts that and the things we expected to be clues don't actually lead to the big reveal, in fact it turns out to be something completely unexpected.

[@GuarmaRummy]

"Generation defining"

[@bfunderb5899]

American Movie does have some hilarious moments though

[@aspirin_man]

two fucking hours

[@AlexSuperTramp-]

the old guy interrupts people too much

[@JJGerrard1980]

Lol! It took you less than 3 months since I commented to circumvent your arbitrary 1 hour rule and actually give the deep dive it's due. I'm not sure why your all so set on the 1-hour format. You've established your show and audience. You think anyone is gonna stop watching if you throw some ? marks and ! points in the title. Once again, the point of the show is the deep dive not racing the clock. I'm a fan. Just saying.

[@clintonorman2859]

Personally, I like it. In this age of binge and gorge, "leave 'em wanting more" seems a good maxim.

[@StonefolkNetwork]

Nah.

[@JJGerrard1980]

@@clintonorman2859 A 2-hour podcast doesn't leave them wanting more brown 👃

[@thatsnice5078]

@@JJGerrard1980 nobody listen to this guy

[@JJGerrard1980]

@@thatsnice5078 that's not very nice karen.

[@clintonorman2859]

Great show. I hadn't thought about how Nathan and Benny are kind of opposites. I think the Safdies are interesting but I couldn't stand Good Time or Uncut Gems. Fucking self-punishment, watching those things. I just don't have the stomach for it. When I was watching this series I was thinking, man, this generation really hates itself. Now hearing that the show is not popular, I think it's more a case of the artists really hate the population. Think about the evolution of flawed characters... from Benjamin in The Graduate to Asher in this... the American male just gets more and more pathetic! Is it because we're becoming less human, or seeing how unhappy life in late capital is, or both...? It's dark shit. One thing you didn't talk much about (not your fault, it's a ten episode series!) is how Asher is workshopped by the network which is a whole other arena of bullying. It's also a great metaphor/microcosm for what happens when your work gets an audience. You get focus-grouped and workshopped to death, if only by the audience, which is so painful. Even though Whitney is arguably not an artist, everything she goes through is what every artist goes through on some level... all the insecurity and second-guessing. Am I ripping someone else off, do people see me, do people like me... It's like the universal dark side of the creative experience. And all the narcissism and insanity of Reality TV is replicated in "regular" film and TV-making as well. Makes you wanna take a shower! As someone who has worked on Reality TV I really enjoyed the "final footage" sequence (which they shot on better cameras) that showed how doctored all the conversations were, especially Cara telling Whitney how important her work was. Ooof!!!

[@isaacmarwell5435]

Queasecore

[@tommygatica2712]

I’m sick of your bs generation takes

[@Whiteshadow23]

This is so bad