The Dangers of the Bible College and Seminary System

The system of recruiting young Bible college graduates and seminary graduates to pastor local churches is not Biblical. The apostles appointed a plurality of elders from within the local church.
The sad thing is that many churches will accept Biblically unqualified candidates if they have degrees, and overlook Biblically qualified candidates who have not gone down the professional clergy career track. Nowhere does the Bible teach that an academic degree or a claim to be called qualifies a man for such a role.
The Bible indicates that believers should be able to use their gifts to edify the church. We do not see any teaching in scripture that church meetings involve sitting and listening to one man make a speech. Rather, believers are to take turns speaking and using their gifts in an orderly manner, as scripture teaches. The current system creates competition for few pastoral roles, with young pastoral-wannabees in student loan debt wishing the older professional clergy would retire in some denominations.
We export this system around the world and in a lot of cases it slows and hinders church growth.

[@RubyValleyRealEstateJackLeber]

I agree. My heart is heavy with the way churches are ran today. We need to get back to the Way. A group of believers edifying and serving together not sitting listening to one person. Each of us needs to be discipling others and using our gifts for Christ. We need to be so in awe of our Lord that we follow Him not a theological belief system taught by man. I read the book of acts and can’t believe the way we are doing church today is the way it’s supposed to work.

[@ramiroperez7180]

Ruby Valley Real Estate Jack Leber amen it all stems with control...the devil is laughing because men this from other men who were taught by the devil... it’s like a mafia boss at the top and the top earners get permission to preach and earn n kick back to the top...

[@Gailsjournal]

Amen right on this pattern today is very unbiblical. It really is not ok

[@pooperscoop54321]

Why spend thousands of dollars to learn about the Bible? Just read it. And if someone wants to learn about relevant extrabiblical information, they should just go to a library or learn online. The college system is one of the worst inventions of the world. Bringing it into the churches is a shame. It's all about credentialism. and authority.

[@rocioarrieta8521]

Yes!!! Thank you!! You speak the truth..I saw so many things when my mom went to a very well known school here in Texas..lots of kundalini teaching and manifesting..A man was screaming like he was on fire and they said it was the Holy Spirit 😔 nooooo that was a demon torturing him

[@joehinojosa8314]

You're Right. I went to one. They taught me textual criticism that the Bible text was UNCERTAIN. What the HECK was I studying the Bible THEN? 📖

[@JesusProtects]

I hope you know about the lies in the critical text theory. More lies to try to disprove the bible. Thank God we were warned about false preachers, false prophets, false christ's, false gospels and doctrines of demons. We were warned and I believe the word of God 100%

[@foxtrotnovember2564]

Not all teach that.

[@abduljabaar9655]

Many people commenting have missed our brothers point. Bible school DOESN’T qualify you to serve. It ENHANCES your service which is QUALIFIED by other development as listed in, for example, 1 Tim 3. ‘Study to show yourself approved.’ Not to ‘be’ approved. But to ‘show’, that you are already approved. After the fact. As evidence of an existing truth. Beyond stated point, I go with Dr. Stan deCoven’s suggestion that training happen in the church community. A Tyrannus Hall model. 95% of freshmen to bible school want to serve God in their local church. 95% of graduates want to pursue an educational career. What happens? Seminary kills the desire to serve & replaces it with a desire to sound clever.

[@edwardwalsh5477]

🙂 Accurate analysis.

[@MrShaanphilips]

Thanks for standing by the WORD OF GOD. may GOD Bless you

[@threenails3030]

My time at Central Bible College was a nightmare. Very unfriendly place, prideful and haughty students. I never graduated I had disabilities and the college never helped me, I spent all that money and never got a degree. I agree with you totally about what you’re saying Bible college is a waste of money it’s a bad investment. The church is no longer a church it’s a business. Pastors are there to make money and build mega church. The church has abandoned the fivefold ministries the pastor has become a central focus a superstar.

[@SaudaraLink]

I am trying to remember if that is the school where I got a little scholarship for Bible Quiz. I didn't attend. A very large percentage of pastors are bi-vocational, pastoring small churches.

[@jadealexander8207]

I'm not sure how I found this video but I needed this!!!I am called to preach and have been since I was 21 and I'm 33 now...I have always believed it but I just haven't been able to shake this world enough to be sanctified ..came close but then the hurt of this life has always won..I live a good life at home I'm stay at home mom but still am not good enough not strong enough to lead ....I realize now I need to start at home with my children!!! I will start with filtering here ..!! Thank u

[@edwardwalsh5477]

A word of advice. Read all of Paul's letters first considering especially 2 Tim 2:16. Have you decided where Scripture should be divided? If not, then all kinds of hard questions will arise. I see about 6 changes (just to the content of the Gospel) between Matt. 5 and Acts 11. Other "policy" changes are clear starting in Genesis 3 - from God as creator to God as destroyer - and God as father or defender of Israel (tiny portion of the World), etc. The temptation to reconstruct the Pentecostal experience is mistaken because that was for Jews as the concluding part of their commission to evangelize the world which they rejected til Acts 8 when Stephen was killed by their leaders. God's blessing upon you as you prepare and then execute leadership in your area of influence.

[@tonyvasquezjr8105]

makes sence, no where in the Bible were new believers that were called to pastor encouraged to seek a 6 year degree school

[@henricorossouw2400]

@Lori Kaye exactly they were taught by the Lord Jesus himself. Bible teacher may teach to a certain point but at some point even babies grow up and eat by themselves. So should Christians be able to at some point be able to eat the meat of the word and in so doing be able to edify others.

[@ForneverstarOfficial]

Currently enrolled at ats and love it, went to a very very small unaccredited place which i found out was little more than a diploma mill and the place i found after had its address to a mailbox at a strip mall. And several people of the faith have stuff from places like that. Alot of people just want the credentials me personlly im in the works at a community college for an actual degree for my career. I just want to study my faith. I know my seminary wont get me a salary advance i just want to be a missionary. God saved me and changed my life. Bless you all!:)

[@theconnellyproject]

Thank you for this biblical perspective. I actually just decided before watching this that I will not be continuing in Bible College. It's nice to have my decision affirmed.

[@mysketchbook3402]

Thanks for the video surprised this was one and only on this subject Amen sir. Subbed will be checking out other videos later.

[@JaguerRhye]

Good job. Thanks for the video.

[@tbw980371]

I can somewhat track your argument, but it is not how the real world works. The reason you would go to a Seminary or Bible College is so that you would know what all these Greek words mean. So you take preaching classes and learn the Bible to the best of you ability. It often equips you to preach God's Word truthfully and faithfully.

[@jonathanh954]

Ahh, Scottish Common Sense Realism is at work here. KJV is ok, but the Textus Receptus is outdated. If Erasmus was around today he probably would have looked at and considered the new manuscripts we now know about. Yes, knowing about the Koine Greek and Hebrew is a essential, but not the essential.

[@JonathanGrandt]

The only reason you need to know Greek is so you can recognize the BS that pastors feed you. The KJV is essentially the Tyndale bible but corrupted. WHAT?! How DARE he say this about the holy KJV!!! Yeah sorry not sorry folks. The KJV isn’t magical or holy or special. Tyndale translated the Greek and the KJV used most of his translation. The KJV even deliberately mistranslates some words... one of which being “church”. The Greek word for “church” is never once used in the New Testament to refer to the body of believers. The Greek word for “congregation” however IS.

[@zbigniewpolasik1580]

Link, though I have found your vide 6 years too late (it would seem) you have stated in a nutshell all that I have been frustrated with in my own life of Christian service and ministry. I have long said that if it is REQUIRED that I go to Seminary then those requiring it should pay for me to go there. If one has a heart for the ministry and DESIRES (as the Bible says) "the office of Bishop" but doesn't have the money...what does that mean? It simply means money buys pulpit privilege. And of course, I've been talking about I Corinthians 14:26 for a LONG time. Thank God there are others who get it too. Yes, the system has problems.

[@nicholasmohammed36]

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[@calebnapier610]

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[@iesquivelful]

Very well done. Thank you for this video.

[@keepthefireburningprayerch7680]

Good work, good work, good work, good work. Thank you!

[@MelodyOfVision]

I don't know. I've seen godly people who go through different tracks to become pastor, missionary, etc. - God will use you whether you went to Bible college or not so long as you love and obey Him, so I don't have a problem if a pastor went to seminary or didn't at all. I do have a problem with people who put BELIEVER in quotes when they refer to other Christians who don't believe as they do about prophets and gifts. It's just puffed up pride and shows a lack of godly love.

[@honestb1216]

Paul was a tent maker and he was taught the Word by the Holy Spirit.

[@SaudaraLink]

Paul was an exception in that he did get a high degree of religious training from the religious system of his day, a student of Gamaiel who was a member of the Sanhedrin and the grandson of Hillel.

[@SaudaraLink]

Acts 5:34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; Acts 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

[@johnspartan98]

@Honest B: Is that what you are waiting for?

[@davidjohnson1463]

Saul was a false apostle mentioned in Revelation 2:2 and 1 John 2.

[@honestb1216]

Link I've never seen this in the Bible about these men you referred to. Where did you find the names?

[@glorifythyname7777]

I never went to Bible school

[@edwardwalsh5477]

Points to add to this presentation is 1) the fact that NO MENTION OF THE CHURCH (except in the future tense - by Christ) occurs anywhere in the NT outside of writings of St. Paul and 2) Paul's "my gospel" (Rom. 1) and the gospel of grace became available only after Paul was apprehended and educated by the ASCENDED Christ, so it supersedes the gospel of the Kingdom delivered by Christ on earth. Mid-Acts. People who never advance beyond presentation of "Gospel of the Kingdom" (in the Gospels) STILL MUST go to Paul's writings to build a Biblical church structure/organization. So, what other errors will such teachers make.

[@linkhudson9025]

Paul preached the kingdom of God among the Gentiles. The mystery that Gentiles we're fellow heirs with Israel through Christ was revealed not only to Paul but also to Apostles and Prophets according to Paul's writings in Ephesians. We can read Christ's gospel in Luke 24 and elsewhere. Paul said if any man preach another gospel than what I preached to you let him be accursed and he did not accuse the 12 of preaching in accursed gospel.

[@edwardwalsh5477]

@@linkhudson9025 Interesting observations but I continue to hold that only from the risen Christ thru Paul (according to Paul) do we learn enough of the church for it to be begun. Even the Lamb of God prophesy by John the Baptist was not revealed until AFTER Jesus' messianic ministry culminated in His death by crucifixion. True that it's not much in the texts that has Paul opposing what the Apostles preached but that was because: 1) The God of grace and mercy extended the period of Kingdom preaching (to Jews only) right into the initial period after the ascension but His grace became exhausted with the stoning of Stephan. (helps to understand the fig tree parable that showed a second season was given by the owner of the tree) 2) " and he did not accuse the 12 of preaching in accursed gospel." True, Paul did not rebuke the 12 collectively but reading more scripture does reveal (in Galatians) that following the influence of the Judaizers earned Peter a strong rebuke in which Paul equated Peter's behavior as that of an hypocrite and a restatement of his newly revealed "my Gospel" by which we must be saved and that cannot be mixed with the Law of Moses. So, the gospel did change even though the "good" part did not, the method and end results did. We are SO BLESSED!

[@SaudaraLink]

@tbw980371 A lot of what I said was probably colored by living in Indonesia for 9 years, where seminary and Bible college degrees are more important in denominations where they aren't as important here. But in a lot of the traditional denominations, a ministry related degree is a prerequisite to be a pastor.

[@MrSamadolfo]

🙂 i think ur forced to teach their way on Theology, Eschatology, Endtime shtf senarios, if u disagree they black list u, have fun trying to get hired

[@natkra90]

@HedeenJeff Where's praying in tongues in the BIble?

[@SaudaraLink]

@InfiniteVideoDirect I think there is more to the word than that. Notice Timothy is called a young man, and is not called an elder. He was an apostle who appointed elders. Paul told him to entreat the elders as fathers.

[@Gailsjournal]

No it is Not biblical. What bothers me also is to write exams for bible college are people expected to use correct answers according to a bible seminary ? Meaning you will have to answer unbiblically against your conscience knowing it’s wrong to pass so u can become a licences minister

[@dr.jpsloane1073]

While our friend, Link, does make some valid points let us not disrespect formal education either. If one does not have the benefit of godly tutoring he can fall into apostasy which is very prevalent in today’s churches--and to be fair by many who are formally trained as well. The early church had anointed letters (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul) which were text to be studied and acted upon. Later they were combined into New Testament cannon. in addition to the Bible Jesus used which we call the Old Testament. I believe if your textbook is the Bible (not just the New Testament but the whole counsel of God) you have good grounding. Nevertheless, there are some terms or subjects not understood by today’s average person. One example is the word, “suffer” which means, in Middle English, to "allow" which not every reader of the King James understands. Another area is “Logos” while it does mean word it is not the written or spoken word which is Rhema. In the Greek logos also means “reason” we think or reason by using "thought words," therefore, if John 1:1 were translated, “In the beginning was Reason and reason was with God and God was Reason,” (notice the order of the words as in the original Greek), Jehovah’s Witnesses could not fool the ignorant Christian or Layman into buying into their flawed cult by making the logos "a god." Paul gave as part of his credentials the fact that he had religious instruction under one of the most celebrated Rabbinical instructors of his day: "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today.” (Acts 22:3) The Hebrew’s put a great value on religious study and Jesus was no exception. At age 12 Jesus debated with the learned scholars at the Temple who were impressed by His knowledge : “After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.” (Luke 2:46-47) Finally the more I am able to formally study the more ignorant I realize I am. This is not to say I agree with everything I am taught but I do use the Bible as my touch stone and have learned to not only defend what I believe, but if shown that I am incorrect in some areas of thought, I am teachable and willing to change my view.

[@zbigniewpolasik1580]

Well, DOCTOR Sloane, you might have missed one thing Link has said: There's nothing wrong with education but which disciple of Paul ever paid him 12,000 drachmae a year to learn the work of the ministry? And what? No comment on I Corinthians 14:26? Because that IS the heart of the issue. The reason that 10% (or 7%!) of the church does "90% of the work" ...is because it's SET UP that way. Those who can do a lot more and COULD do a lot more (including edifying the congregation with the Word...aren't allowed to because there are too many "Diotropheses" clutching at their pulpits. What's sad as well is that the people who actually ARE doing the work of the ministry: evangelizing, encouraging their brothers and sisters, serving, helping...have to sit in the pew with their mouths shut while the men who have paid $$$ for a seminary degree (but tell people that "the ministry is not about the spotlight being on you." ...are the very ones on whom the spotlight is on, Sunday after Wednesday after Sunday. There are many of us who have a heart for God and the ministry but don't have the thick greenback to purchase our doctorates. Does that make us unqualified for ministry, or to preach the Word, or does it make us dummies?

[@rahbia5805]

The creator reveals to me what the mind control educational system never on any level. The messiah taught to owe no man...so there goes the whole need to pay anyone for education which should be free of a price and free of brainwashing. But these concepts do not exist and have not for a very long time. Learning should be something true seekers can do for free!

[@david-wj3zk]

I'd tell them. I'll do the seminary if the pastor for my whole seminary fees, my yearly wages that I normally get, and future looses due to my future promotions. I would add out of your pocket pastor and not out of the churches money.

[@patriciaroberts2841]

One pastor different departments in the church, go to bible school after which, if not already spiritually prepare, get spirtually trained by pastors or elders in the church before you are given a pulpit. The bigger the church, the more the pastors. There should be only one shepherd in the house of God. God is not the author of confusion. You finish bible school, you humble yourself on the base level and grow spiritually until God lefts you up.

[@patriciaroberts2841]

If you feel that you are ready to preach and no one is giving you the pulpit, open your own church just make sure God is leading you.

[@SaudaraLink]

Pastor means shepherd, so if there is more than one pastor, there is more than one shepherd. And the on chief Pastor, as Peter calls Him, is Christ.

[@ramiroperez7180]

Patricia Roberts your right God is not the author of confusion and He laid out the order of church meetings in 1 Cor 14:26-40... where the scriptures to back that God changed it from that model? There isn’t so if Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today n forever how did that change..

[@chadwoods4225]

Ephesians chapter 4 says he gave some pastors.

[@alex3475]

How about someone growing up within the congregation being led and taught by godly men and then later taking him for formal academic learning? This makes a very big difference in various areas of ministry.

[@ramiroperez7180]

OTTO MKHATSHWA you must be called to the ministry by Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit... many in today’s pulpits were never called.. it’s all about cronyism... the truly called are never permitted to preach the word because they will be like Jesus Christ n free the captives... the devil has many church denominations in bondage because they teach a doctrine of devils..

[@rsk5660]

Doctors engineers etc do their studying and then go out into the working world but they automatically start at the bottom and work their way up throughout their 40 year career but pastors go straight in at the top.. A pastor with toddlers nearly destroyed one of my teenagers just because he didn't have the experience in his own house.. How can a young man pastor a seventy year old, unless of course the 70 year olds are still immature, which is common I suppose.

[@jadealexander8207]

Always look up Greek meanings of words!! Key ! And always search for for the holy spirits DeVines approval !!

[@dennismaher9533]

Thats why most Pastors don't know or teach the Bible .

[@CornCod1]

We have Paul's letters to Timothy that give us the qualification for the pastoral office. However, the Bible doesn't say anything against seminary study, so obviously it's permitted. Why not get a pastor that knows the Bible in the original languages? How does that hurt? Why not get a pastor that knows and understands biblical doctrine? Of course, not just any seminary will do. You have to pick an orthodox one. Naturally, if we end up back in the catacombs, we can have guys with little or no formal training as pastors, that's fine.

[@viktorslatter5630]

Thank you ! In my time worshipping in the church of Christ I have found that preachers that are self made , this is where they study God sword on their own . These are true gospel preachers! Not institutionalized through preacher schools or college training. I consider myself as a gospel preacher a minister of the gospel! But today slot of churches look at training . At the ch of ch in alba Texas the preacher is a Catholic raised college trained preacher that doesn t follow God s word to the fullest So sad .

[@tooradixx]

Do you understand why Peter and Paul, at about the same time, told the GENTILE churches to appoint elders? What was the situation in Jerusalem?

[@SaudaraLink]

Roger Roberts There were elders in the church in Jerusalem, but we don't have the account of them being appointed, unless we consider the Seven to be elders. Traditionally they are seen as deacons.

[@SaudaraLink]

There were elders in the Jerusalem church, too.

[@Caveman007freelancer]

Elders comes from the OT suggesting man well experience in the understanding of the Word and serving others , not a pastor.

[@ManCaveMinistries007]

The apostle Paul had more than a BA or a Master of Divinity degree. He was a Pharisee of the Pharisees, and if you understand what that means then you’ll understand he was highly educated. On top of that, after his conversion God separated him into the Arabian desert for three years to further learn. Scripture says, Study to show thyself approved unto God... You’re spinning half truths, those who are called of God will preach whether in a church or in the streets, it’s a fire burning within them. If a person can do anything else in life besides preach then they need to do it. However, the true call of God can not be ignored because it is a fire that rages within them. Many are called but few are chosen. Let me tell you the true problem as stated in the book of Jude; men have secretly crept in awares.... These ungodly men now run the church. Sorry it didn’t work out for you, that really sucks.

[@SaudaraLink]

I am not sure what you are referring to by your accusation. Paul was highly educated in the formal education system of Judaism of his day. But apparently Jesus and the 12 disciples were not. But Christ was educated by the Father and he trained the twelve. Then Paul learned from the Lord in the desert for three years.

[@lucyrahn]

Hi, I appreciate your sentiment, however, I noticed that you only quote Paul and Timothy and never Jesus. Also, you only mention men, when it is clearly written that the Holy Spirit fell (and falls) on men and women. Also, many women were part of the early church - including in the role of elder and apostle. It is fine to make the statements you do, simply be aware that you have omitted a large and essential component of the body of Christ in your video: women.

[@SaudaraLink]

'Zaqen', translated elder in Hebrew might be translated 'bearded one.' Paul wrote to Timothy and Titus that the bishop must be a man...a one woman man. It uses a word for 'man' there that is not used for women.

[@johnspartan98]

Academia fosters PRIDE (the antithesis of godliness). Some make it out ok, but I am sure any of them reading this know what I am talking about. I got my Minister's Degree by correspondence. 30 years ago.....but I had to unlearn most of it due to being brainwashed with trinity doctrines. I spent 43 years as a brainwashed trinitarian. I debated for the trinity position all over the Internet for more than 10 years and for the last 12 years I have been teaching the Biblical position which is a ONE God and ONE BEGOTTEN SON of God belief. John 17:3; John 20:17; John 20:31; Deuteronomy 6:4 Examine everything according to scripture after you have learned the Biblical Method of interpreting the scriptures and how to rightly divide them. Too many people are going around believing false doctrines because they have not learned the Biblical Method of interpretation or how to rightly divide the scriptures. These people are easy to expose because they ignore even the plainest of texts that stand in contrast to their beliefs and they refuse to put out any effort to resolve the conflicts their beliefs cause with the rest of the Bible. These people will get angry, condemn, falsely accuse, belittle, attack, and slander anyone that sees their errors and tries to show them from scripture that their interpretation does not compute with the Bible. Those who hold to the "Jesus is God" doctrine and unBiblical "trinity" doctrine are two of the best (worse) examples. These are not explicitly stated in scripture nor are they essential beliefs for salvation, yet churchianity has brainwashed most Christians and every Catholic and Protestant seminary is guilty of it.

[@thefractalbible8214]

I agree completely with you! Doctrine of Trinity is not in the Bible.

[@drewdaniels4156]

Can you link verses or information on arguments against Trinitarian doctrine? I read the King James, I believe it is one of the best translation that was cultivated since 1st-2nd century. I’m not a fan of wildly interpreted modern translations, inspired by manuscripts that were uncovered by occultist. The book whole book of the Bible seems to point to Jesus’ divinity. Is he not divine? I don’t believe in the 3persons=1 being doctrine. There is no physical way to describe God’s nature. But Jesus said “Before Abraham was, I am” This is just one of many many verses that describe his presence throughout time and his part in creation. I am very open minded but I would like to see the evidence against Jesus’ divinity. Thank you

[@drewdaniels4156]

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV Unless you believe the Bible is fallible or inaccurate to me this verse sums up Gods triune nature. Call it whatever you want.

[@johnspartan98]

@@drewdaniels4156 Even if that verse was not an addition to the text(which it is) it still does not inform anyone what the meaning of the Trinity is. You only find the meaning taught in Creeds after 381 A.D.. It's not taught in the Bible, therefore it is a non essential doctrine to Christian faith and salvation. 1 John 5:7-8. TWO DIFFERENT READINGS 1. With the Comma Johanneum (Catholic). The AV and KJV contains the Comma Johanneum. These versions are based on the Third Edition of the Textus Receptus. It was compiled by Desiderius Erasmus with the First Edition printed in 1516. Erasmus had access to only eight or nine Greek manuscripts (of the Byzantine family of texts) when he compiled the three Editions of the Textus Receptus. The rendering of 1 John 5:7 in his first two editions resembles "the critical text" used for the NASB, which reads much differently than the rendering of 1 John 5:7-8 in the third edition of the Textus Receptus. The surrounding circumstances, supported by historical evidence against the Comma Johanneum, is why Bible Scholars and translation teams now reject the KJV rendering of the Comma Johanneum. The AV (KJV) is based on the following Greek text: "marturountes en to hourano, ho pater ho logos kai to hagion pneuma, kai houtoi hoi treis hen eisin. kai treis eisin hoi marturountes en to ge, to pneuma kai to hudor kai to haima." This translates to English as follows: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one." This Greek text is found in the following documents: 61 - a sixteenth century minuscule text 629 - a fourteenth century minuscule text 88 - the reading appears in the margin of this twelfth century text 429 - the reading appears in the margin of this 14-15 century text 636 - a fifteenth century minuscule text 918 - a sixteenth century minuscule text 221 - the reading appears in the margin of this tenth century text Other than this one text wich contains the Comma Johanneum as a marginal notation from the 10th century, there are no earlier texts than the 14th century that contain it. None of the older major papyrus texts support the comma Johanna as the authoritative word of God. The historical evidence indicates it was migrated into the text of the Bible from a marginal note found in one text from the 10th century. 2. Without the Comma Johanneum: The NASB and all later translations are based on the Westcott and Hort text (modern critical text) with variations noted. The modern critical text is based from the examination of thousands of manuscripts discovered after the Textus Receptus was compiled, with many thousands of manuscripts discovered in the last 200 years alone. Erasmus did not have access to the wealth of texts discovered after the Textus Receptus was complied. Westcott and Hort also examined the texts that were available to Erasmus, the Textus Receptus, and the AV KJV. Their modern critical text is obviously a more accurate text. The critical text behind the NASB reading is as follows: "hoti treis eisin hoi marturountes, to pneuma kai to hudor kai to haima, kai hoi treis eis to hen eisin." This translates to English as follows: "For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." This textual reading is supported by too many earlier texts to be mentioned (much earlier than the 14th century AD). Some of the major texts supporting this text are: Aleph - a fourth century uncial text A - Alexandrinus is a fifth century uncial text B - Vaticanus is a fourth century uncial text 048 - a fifth century uncial text In addition to these earlier major texts, numerous minuscule texts from the ninth century on read the same way; Examples: 81, 88, 104, 181, 326, 330, 436, 451, 614, 630, 945, 1241, 1505, 1739, 1877, 1881, 2127, 2412, 2492, 2495, etc. The above is a sample of reasons why the modern critical text rendering of 1 John 5:7 is against the Textus Receptus. The manuscript evidence is such that no one questions that an insertion into the holy text has been made by a person or persons with a trinitarian bias. The modern critical text reading used in the NASB receives an "A" rating on a scale which uses "A" to signify that the text is virtually certain. NOTE: The first two editions of Erasmus' text which became know as the Textus Receptus did not contain the KJV 1611 reading of 1 John 5:7. Other historical evidence: Among the criticisms levelled at Erasmus, one of the most serious appeared to be the charge made by Stunica, one of the editors of "Ximenes' Complutensian Polygot" and publisher of "Annotations against Erasmus," that his text lacked part of the final chapter of 1 John, namely the Trinitarian statement concerning `the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth....' (1 John v. 7-8, King James version). Erasmus replied to Stuncia's criticisms that he had not found any Greek manuscript containing these words, though he had in the meanwhile examined several others besides those on which he relied when first preparing his text. Erasmus promised that he would insert the Comma Johanneum, in future editions of his Textus Receptus if a single Greek manuscript could be found that contained the passage. After a considerable length of time such a manuscript was found. In Erasmus own words he indicates doubts about it's origins and history shows it was made to order! The Greek manuscript presented to Erasmus is believed to have been written in Oxford around 1520 by a Franciscan friar named Froy (or Roy), who took the disputed words from the Latin Vulgate. Regardless, Erasmus stood by his promise and inserted the passage in his third edition (1522), but he indicates in a lengthy footnote his suspicions that the manuscript had been prepared expressly in order to confute him . . . ". . . The Comma probably originated as a piece of allegorical exegesis of the three witnesses and may have been written as a marginal gloss in a Latin manuscript of 1 John, whence it was taken into the text of the Old Latin Bible during the fifth century. The passage does not appear in manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate before about 800 A.D." (Bruce Metzger, The Text of the New Testament, pp. 101-102). Apparently, this text was prepared especially for Erasmus. Known as manuscript 61 (Ms. 61), this manuscript was described by Metzger as follows: This manuscript of the entire New Testament, dating from the late fifteenth or early sixteenth century, now at Trinity College, Dublin, has more importance historically than intrinsically. It is the first Greek manuscript discovered which contains the passage relating to the Three Heavenly Witnesses (I John v. 7-8). It was on the basis of this single, late witness that Erasmus was compelled to insert this certainly spurious passage into the text of 1 John. The manuscript, which is remarkably fresh and clean throughout (except for the two pages containing 1 John v, which are soiled from repeated examination of this passage), gives every appearance of having been produced expressly for the purpose of confuting Erasmus (Ibid., p. 62). However, because this text was produced, Erasmus included the reading in the third edition of his Greek text which was the text used for translating the AV. In this manner, the passage was included in the King James Version of the Bible. In the Companion To The Revised Version of the English New Testament, Alexander Roberts commented, "No defender of the genuineness of 1 John (5: 7, 8), will probably arise in the future. The controversy regarding the passage is finished, and will never be renewed" (p. 71). Conclusion The thousands of Greek manuscripts, both uncial and minuscule, allow us to examine the text of the New Testament in greater detail than any other ancient book can be examined. Texts from distinctly different families of manuscripts exist which make it possible for us to examine exactly what the original documents state. With no exceptions, the textual critics are universally willing to admit that the text of the New Testament is extremely well preserved in the "Modern Critical Text," and we can rest assured that we have an accurate copy of the documents as they came from the pens of the inspired men. Peter said, ". . . the word of the Lord endureth for ever" (1 Pet. 1:25); modern textual critics are compelled to admit that it has at least endured to this present time.

[@johnspartan98]

@@drewdaniels4156 The following 60 verses stand against the trinity. First a brief intro, then the 60 verses, followed by a conclusion. Those who teach Jesus is God put themselves in a position where they have to believe everything that is true of Jesus is true of God. This leads to a string of reductio ad absurdum conclusions. Your FALSE conclusions are as follows: Jesus was begotten and born, so God was begotten and born. Jesus is born of Mary, so God is born of Mary; Jesus was beaten by men, so God was beaten by men. Jesus died for our sins, so God died for our sins. Jesus did not speak his own words, God doesn't speak his own words Jesus grew in stature and wisdom, so God grew in stature and wisdom. Clearly the above examples are absurdities. They prove Jesus is not God the Son, he is the Son of God. *_For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous._* Romans 5:19 Jesus said: "I am a man who has told you the truth I heard from God." John 8:40 Moses writes: "God is not man, that he should lie, or a 'son of man', that he should change his mind..." Numbers 23:19 1) Jesus said he has a God and he calls Him Father. John 20:17 2) Jesus said his Father is the only true God. John 17:3 3) Jesus said his Father is greater than all. John 10:29 4) Jesus said his Father is greater than I. John 14:28 5) Jesus said he can do nothing on his own. John 5:30 6) Jesus said he speaks his Father's words. John 7:15; John 14:10; John 14:24; John 12:49-50; John 17:14; 7) Jesus said his teaching is from his Father. John 7:15; John 12:49-50 8) Jesus said his Father told him what to speak. John 12:49-50 9) Jesus said the Father living in him does his works. John 14:10 10) Jesus said believe I am the messiah or die in your sins. John 8:24 11) Jesus said his Father is in Heaven. Matthew 16:17 12) Jesus said he did not know everything. Mark 13:32 13) Jesus said: "I am a man who has told you the truth I heard from God." John 8:40 14) Jesus said: I am the Messiah. John 4:25:26; Jn 8:58; 15) Jesus said "I am God's Son." John 10:36 16) Jesus said he did his Father's will, not his own will. Luke 22:42 17) Jesus said the Father gave him life in himself. John 5:26. 18) Jesus was not given the authority to decide who sits on his right or left. That authority was the Father's alone. Matthew 20:23 19) Jesus said he has a God 4 times in Revelation 3:12 20) Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in Me does not believe in Me only, but in the One who sent Me." John 12:44 21) Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him ONLY.'" Luke 4:8 22) Jesus said: "the Father who sent me testifies about me.” John 8:18 23) Jesus spent a whole night praying TO God. (not to himself) Luke 6:12 24) Jesus said; "Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone." Mark 10:18 25) Peter said Jesus is a man. Acts 2:22 26) Peter said God did many signs and wonders THROUGH Jesus. Acts 2:22 27) Peter said Jesus was crucified according to God's plan and foreknowledge. Acts 2:23; also see Revelation 13:8. 28) Peter said "God raised Jesus from the dead." Acts 2:24; Acts 2:32; Acts 10:40; Paul states it in Romans 10:9. 29) Peter said God made Jesus both Lord and Christ [savior]. Acts 2:36 30) Peter said to Jesus: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16:16 31) Peter says: "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy spirit and with power." Acts 10:38. If Jesus is God did God anoint himself? 32) Luke states: Stephen saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. Acts 7:55 God wasn't standing beside himself. 33) Luke states Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man. Luke 2:52 34) Luke tells us Christ means savior. Luke 2:11 35) Luke writes in Acts 13:30 that Paul said: "God raised Jesus from the dead." 36) John states: Jesus is the Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14 37) John states: The Samaritans declare Jesus is Savior of the world. John 4:42 38) John states: “these are written so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name.” John 20.31. 39) John states: "Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." John 4:15 40) John states: “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God” (1 John 5.1). 41) John states: the Father (YHWH) gave the Son (Jesus) to be savior of the world. 1 John 4:14; 42) John states that God (YHWH) gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN Son (Jesus) that whosoever believes in him will not perish. John 3:16 43) Paul tells us God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus. Acts 13:23 44) Paul states: There is One God and Father of all. Ephesians 4: 4-6 45) Paul states: the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3 46) Paul states: God raised Jesus from the dead. (Romans 10.9). 47) Paul states: salvation is the gift of God (YHWH) Ephesians 2:8-9 48) Paul states: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and mankind, a man, Christ Jesus, ...1 Timothy 2:5 49) Paul states: For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, we will be saved by his life. (Romans 5:10). REV Bible 50) Paul states: through the obedience of the one MAN (Jesus) the many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19 51) Paul states: Christ was raised out from among the dead through the glory of the Father Romans 6:4; 52) Paul states: "Moreover, if the spirit of him who raised Jesus out from among the dead lives in you, He (YHWH) who raised Christ Jesus out from among the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His (YHWH's) spirit that dwells in you. Romans 8:11 53) Paul states: "Paul, an apostle (not sent from any group of people, nor through any person, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him out from among the dead),..." Galatians 1:1 54) Paul states there is only one God the Father. 1 Corinthians 8:6 55) Paul states God (YHWH) alone is immortal. 1 Timothy 6:16. 56) Paul states: "...when all things have been subjected to him [Jesus], then the Son will subject himself to Him[YHWH] who subjected all things to him, so that God [YHWH] is all in all. 57) The Book of Hebrews (likely written by Paul to Jews) states: Jesus is our Apostle and high priest; faithful to the God who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful. Hebrews 3:1-2 58) Matthew writes: "and Look!, a voice came out of heaven, saying, “This is my Son, the beloved, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17 The voice that came out of heaven is the Father's voice. The beloved Son is Jesus. God was not talking about himself. 59) Matthew writes: Jesus was tempted by the Devil. (Matthew 4:1). 60) James states God cannot be tempted by evil. James 1:13 CONCLUSION: Jesus has a God that anointed him, empowered him, told him what to speak, and who he is subject to, therefore Jesus is not God. If Paul or any of the Apostles thought Jesus was God, they would not have said God raised him or referred to him as a MAN. God’s Son died. God cannot die. Jesus is NOT God. The above scriptures are simple straight forward and self evident in their meaning. You don't have to be a scholar to understand their plain meaning. It took philosophers 350 years to pervert the Christian faith with pagan philosophy and hoodwink the church fathers. Philo started this "Jesus is God" nonsense with his logos theory and trinity doctrine. Can a man be considered God without actually being God? YES: Through the Law of Agency. A King's messenger is viewed as being the King without actually being the King. A King's son can have all the rights, privileges, power, and authority as the King, without being the King. In the Hebrew culture the agent is called a Shaliach. Moses, as God's shaliach spoke as God in the first person, yet no one says Moses is God. Angels sent by God spoke in the first person as God yet they were not God.

[@turkwelsch]

My life is Bible school!

[@JonathanGrandt]

Lol. Elder literally means older. They appointed older men.

[@tonyshumway7652]

✟ Joshua 1:8 (KJV) This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. Matthew Chapter 25 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. 1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Ecclesiastes 9:8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.

[@JC-di4uz]

Every one I've ever met who went to a Bible college was/ is a complete weirdo. Fire and brimstone types. Only wore certain clothes , wouldn't listen to "secular music" only listened to classical instrument s. No "secular" tv. Would wear long sleeves and jeans in the summer in south Carolina, u know how hot it it's

[@HedeenJeff]

This is true...Ive seen "believers" try to explain away todays prophets and gifts of GOD. Saying they dont exist today. They do. Praying in tongues exists and so does prophecy, vsions and dreams. The LORD told me "This is the last generation."

[@ramiroperez7180]

Jeff Hedeen amen Jeff you have just confirmed what Holy Spirit has taught me as well

[@thecasterofsteel]

So somebody who hasn't been to Bible college is more qualified to serve as a pastor than someone who hasn't? Isn't it true that God equips those that he calls? Bible college isn't required, but it's definitely helpful. If you do research, you'll notice that many colleges do everything they can to make school cheap for their students. There is nothing wrong with students learning from men who have served in churches. It's the same thing that Christ did.

[@zbigniewpolasik1580]

He equips them, but not necessarily through Bible college. And again, when He gives money to everyone who has a heart for Him and the ministry ...then I'll believe that Bible College is the way to go.

[@HedeenJeff]

@natkra90 Its in the book of Acts.

[@JC-di4uz]

Basically just weird people man. Every aspect of their lives were centers around the bible. Had complete condescending attitude toward anyone not pentecostal holiness.

[@alexanderanderson5710]

he's right anyways

[@JonathanGrandt]

Surprise! Church is not biblical.

[@jonathanh954]

The word "Bible" is not in the Bible. The word Trinity is not in the Scriptures. However, the principle is found in Scripture. Same with reasonable education. One does not need to go into allot of debt, but a form of education is preferred. Education and experience augment one another. No need to setup a false dichotomy.

[@SaudaraLink]

I'm not against education. I have advanced degrees myself. My concern is with a system that substitutes formal degrees for meeting Biblical qualifications in some cases, and excludes the qualified when they do not have formal degrees. Jesus and the apostles used more of an apprenticeship approach for training ministers than what we see in most seminaries and Bible college systems.

[@njugunakariuki3787]

Stop misleading people brother , I have been a preacher before going to Bible School for 15 years And now I have gone to Theology School not to be a preacher but to sharpen the call I have in me . People don't go to seminary to be pastors they are already pastors by call they go to sharpen their call in God . Pastors, evangelist , , Apostle those ministries are in the bible . Read Ephesians 4:11:13

[@SaudaraLink]

I do not see why you would accuse me. I have lived in a country where many denominations use Bible colleges as a pipeline to clerical jobs. My observations fit many of the 'systems' that are out there. The Old Testament also warns against false shepherds, so they are shepherds of a sort, because they lead people, sometimes astray. But I am not accusing people for being false shepherds because they went to seminary. Seminary and speaking well is not enough. And a spiritual gift is not enough to be appointed to the local elder/overseership role. Paul required such individuals be 'apt to teach' and instructed them to pastor the flock of God, but their are lifestyle and character requirements to be appointed to that role. For example, someone gifted or called to pastor and teach others who has two wives or who gets drunk every night is not qualified. And one could be gifted as an evangelist or prophet, be fruitful in ministry while not overseeing a local church.

[@markgreen5210]

This individual sounds like he is advocating for being a Non-Denominational Ministry or he is frustrated with pursuing his own theological education. He clearly does not see the bigger picture. His comments about paying off Ministry related education after graduation are valid, but the majority of pastors today are bi-vocational. A degree from within one’s own ecumenical institution says that a person is educationally prepared for the role of doing the work of someone in full-time ministry. You receive training in various things that support one’s calling. A M.Div degree will cover not only the Bible, theology, and doctrinal positions, but it will cover practical matters too, like how to perform church administration, lead music, how to interpret text, and so much more. The degree says that a person is educationally prepared to assume that role for which one has studied several years. In practice, people coming out of a Christian seminary or Bible College have options available to them in ministry as God leads them. Some will be ready to go onto the mission field with additional language preparation. Others will be prepared to start up a full-time ministry from scratch if they have the drive, personality, and ability to do so as a Senior Pastor. The above two options are similar to start-up businesses. If you have a calling to do something, you get the knowledge that you need through education. You learn from others who are doing it successfully through working in a supportive role as say an Associate Pastor for a period of time while you are acquiring experience and resources...Then, you step out when the time is right to build a new work somewhere under the leadership of the Holy Spirit and the guidance of the ecumenical body that you belong to. You want to be successful in winning souls, (which I did not hear in this person’s comments) first and foremost. Pastor’s of many Ministry start-ups are bi-vocational for a number of years before the Ministry can fully support them. Other people graduating from seminary or Bible College specialize in an area needed by the ministry to grow and or meet a need, such as: Director of Music, Youth Pastor, Para-Church Ministry, College Professor, and so on. Having a degree in a particular area speaks for you to some extent as a candidate to fulfill a role in a church. The selection process for a pastoral position at an established work involves guest preaching. The selection committee does not want to bring in someone who is going to create division in the church or that practices doctrinally unsound Ministry. They want to bring in someone who the people will approve of, that will be a good administrator of that work, and who has a vision for the future of that work that is in agreement with both scripture and the ecumenical body that the church belongs to. Our culture today is full of things that are in opposition to the church and sound Christian doctrine. Regrettably, it is increasingly corrupting the church itself. As the church and family goes, so goes the nation someone once said. The important question to ask here is what is one’s true motivation for wanting to enter the ministry in the first place. If growth and money are the primary considerations, GET OUT AND DO SOMETHING ELSE FOR A LIVING. The lost world needs to hear the truth from those who have the ability to proclaim it without compromise.Today, the Church Age is nearing an end as we await the rapture. Christians should be preparing for the underground church and persecution if the rapture is delayed in these last days.

[@SaudaraLink]

My formal education is not in theology. I have a degree in Linguistics and a Masters and PhD in Business Administration. I work in academia. I was in graduate school when I made the video. Your post makes a number of assumptions that I do not agree with and that I do not see how you can support scripturally or factually. Where is the 'senior pastor' found in scripture? The apostles appointed 'elders in every church', 'elders in every city.' Elders were appointed from within the saints within the congregation. The method of training leaders/ministers, etc. was also different from the seminary system. Jesus traveled with twelve men and sent them out. He also sent out 70 disciples. The Lord Jesus most likely did not have the education from the formal religious system of His day, either. Later, we see apostles travelling with associates like Mark, for example. The apostles appointed elders within the congregation. One of the Biblical 'methods' for training leaders is what has been called the 2-2-2 method, II Timothy 2:2, where Paul charges Timothy to take what he had taught him and commit it to faithful men who may be able to teach others also. So teaching and training in scripture was carried out by these itinerant preachers who took other preachers with them, and within the local church. Elders were raised up from among the very men in the local church community they would later pastor. The apostles did not bring in young 22-year-olds from Jerusalem Bible College or slightly older seminary grads from the Jerusalem Christian Seminary.

[@SaudaraLink]

Do you think when Paul taught the future elders of a church or when he taught Timothy, that he said, "If you want me to teach you, you have to pay me 200 denarii per year. Otherwise, I will not teach and train you for ministry"? There are systems that bring ministerial training into churches. My undergrad is in linguistics and I took a couple of Semitic languages as electives also, and from experience I do appreciate the value that comes from learning language from a specialist. I am also not against formal education when it comes to issues related to language, Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic. I am against adding unbiblical qualifications to the role of elder/overseer (e.g. having to have a specific degree). I am also against the practice of hiring men to oversee the flock based on their educational credentials without their meeting the Biblical qualifications. I see tying a formal degree in theology, an MDiv, etc., too closely with being appointed to an overseership role in the local church as a bad practice. A church planter from Singapore commented on the Bible College system he saw in Indonesia, where I spent many years. The parents might send the first son off to be an engineer and the second to be a doctor, but the third one isn't too bright. Let us send him to Bible college to be a preacher. Or he is naughty, and Bible college will straighten him out. There seemed to be a few in my wife's Bible college that might have fit that last description, and I can think of someone in a couple of other people that I know in other traditions that had some issues along those lines. As far as the church going underground is concerned, how would the seminary system work in that environment? House churches are suited for underground church movements. Many of the rapidly multiplying house church movements in the developing parts of the world have less formal systems of training leaders, and seminary training is rare.

[@rubenvalenzuela3577]

Dude please!! Make sense.