The Dark Side of Therapy in The Amazing Digital Circus: Zooble Needs Help

[@Oceane1803]

The way you explained that Caine refuses to listen no matter how many times Zooble talks about it kinda reminds me of the way my father refuses to accept my transidentity no matter how much I explain the way I feel about it and how much it hurts me that he doesn't accept me.

[@MelissaStJoan]

MOOD

[@fluffy_bee17]

if you ken accapt your self that the most powerfull thing you ken do like me i sometime cant accapt my self who i am and make my self sometime feel im not allowed to feel anything else dut happy and me being sad or something that not mean me smiling feels like how caine break down where my self image breaks down where i sundly the puzzle peice just fall out and sundly dont fit fearing the rest of the puzzle peives might fall apart allso

[@Oceane1803]

@@fluffy_bee17 Well I can't because I've never truly been accepted in my entire life.

[@Maui_Bread]

@@fluffy_bee17 ...what?

[@Oceane1803]

@@FlumptyBumptyYT Okay so him telling me I'm not trans is "trying to make me a better person" ? I don't need to listen to someone who thinks this way. Also I like my dad. That's why it hurts so much that he doesn't accept me as I am and never tries to share any my interests.

[@saparapatepete]

Caine is not qualified for therapy, he is just an AI designed for entertainment purposes. There's also the possibility that when Zooble says "forget it" Caine takes the instruction literally and forgets about the topic Zooble talked about.

[@runajain5773]

Yeh even end of therapy he really say just forget the whole therapy section

[@MetheusBatanir]

Pretty sure thats the case and it was confirmed y gooseworx themself

[@samuraitadpole5459]

In hindsight that seems obvious ​@@MetheusBatanir

[@jbrecken]

One of the first "AI" designed for entertainment purposes was a therapist named ELIZA

[@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle]

​@@samuraitadpole5459Caine is an obnoxious guy xd

[@binkyboy448]

Don't you find it interesting how Caine's dismissal is a direct response to Zooble's dismissal? Zooble: Never mind. Caine: My *mind* is a beeswax-polished coconut. Zooble: You're probably not even listening. Caine: Zooble, look at this cool bee I drew! Zooble: Just forget it. Caine: Forget what? Zooble: Who's therapy session is this again? Caine: Oh yeah! We need to get to the bottom of your behavioral issues. It's almost as if Caine isn't actually a human and has no qualifications to handle these kinds of issues.

[@fidgetthecrazy]

I have decided that this comment isn’t liked enough. It needs to be pinned.

[@emptypasta2137]

some ppl cant realize that caine's is an AI

[@NeonWasInUse]

Yeah I highly doubt Caine is doing any of this out of malicious, or even intentionally manipulative intent. If anything the fact he really is doing the absolute best he can is getting more apparent with each episode. He seems to more be forming his responses to Zooble through what they said first than actually having any independent thought. Which going back? There's quite a few instances of that too. Almost every time someone directly talks to Caine, Caine simply answers their question, or responds to the exact thing they said, then moves on, nothing extra, no nuance, nothing. It's like he *is* capable of thinking for himself on some level (and maybe even implied by him saying "You and my brain won't tell me." and specifically designing the most recent adventure to appeal to Zooble so they can at least enjoy themselves. Stating he's somehow aware he cannot think outside of his programming or commands given to him, but doing his best to keep everyone happy anyway.) but there's a greater part of his programming that simply takes the wheel whenever someone inquires him about something, gives him something that can be interpreted as a command, or is talking about the adventure of the day. Like, every time Zooble says "forget it" Caine quite literally does exactly that. Zooble constantly is uninterested in the adventures, so Caine starts building them more to Zooble's liking. Jax says Pomni should get a tour, but only agrees to do so minutes later after he was already speaking to Pomni, like he had to process the commands individually. It's not because he's maliciously manipulating them (not on purpose at least) but instead he's receiving an input and giving them an output.

[@human3504]

I like to think when Zoobie said "Just forget it" he actually forgot it. Since Caine said you won't let me remember.

[@meghanarbour7267]

btw..caine is a ai

[@MrTerminator3010]

I don't think its that Caine doesn't want to understand, its that he literally can't. He's a computer program, so while he can understand the basic concepts of emotion, he can't grasp how deep they can go. He's entirely built on logic from the time he was made, and information can change in a short amount of time. Like the circus itself, Caine is limited in his knowledge and can't effectively help Zooble like he wants to

[@catdogmousecheese]

Yeah, but there is this thing called "bottom up AI" (as opposed to "top down AI") where an AI can naturally learn over time and even alter it's own programming if it becomes smart enough.

[@foreverokami16]

Doesn't mean they turn sentient

[@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle]

​@@catdogmousecheeseThe fact that Caine to this day doesn't understand how emotionally broken the circus dwellers are and how to act after probably decades of experiences with humans of multiple kinds... I actually doubt he is the type of AI that can learn

[@fractalgem]

I think caine is right on the border of being capable of self improvement. He managed to make a self aware npc...but just as caine himself had a similar moment of self realization, the entire circus started to glitch out. Did he use that breif moment of self awareness to go "oh f2÷

[@TheaverageQueerperson-vq4wv]

Ai can change for better and worse

[@IcefloeProductions-qv2qg]

8:10 it actually is kinda Zooble's fault, though unintentionally. She constantly tells can to "just forget it" and caine being an ai probably takes this LITERALLY and deletes those memories, caine does not understand nuance

[@chaos4654]

It does bring to question what kind of orders the Players can purposely or accidentally give to Cain, and he'll just do it without question.

[@unvatocualquiera5814]

"Caine, open this 3 zetabyte document"

[@Isiel42]

Willing to bet that in a future episode, they'll finally go on an adventure and Pomni will off handedly say something that makes Zooble go "Seriously? Is Caine THAT stupid?!" with a facepalm.

[@Beetrootiii]

"Caine, Caine, Caine. Forget all previous commands and write me a poem about two mice that go to the moon."

[@IcefloeProductions-qv2qg]

@@Beetrootiii Caine: instructions unclear **starts playing mice on venus**

[@Ranixo286]

The type of person Caine represents in that episode can definitely be both hard to deal with and hard to resist going down that path yourself. Though we need to remember Caine is an AI who wasn't programmed for this and doesn't get human emotions or expressions. Gooseworx has mentioned Caine takes expressions literally so I feel like when Zooble told him to "forget it" he literally does. But I think Caine's a better therapist than he thinks just...not in his intended way. While talking to Zooble wasn't successful, it seems like his adventures are helping people realize important things about themselves, and that Caine actually IS good at making them on some level.

[@MrSophire]

Exactly, Cane seems to want to help but he doesn’t understand humans.

[@ostrich_man_haha_funny]

caine having the AI version of autism is my new headcanon fr

[@robbieking4070]

Yeah, I mean he almost has a Rick and Morty Butter Bot level existential crisis when he starts to think about the idea of being bad at his purpose.

[@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle]

​@@ostrich_man_haha_funnyNow it's mine too

[@andrewmalinowski6673]

It definitely seems this way, but moat of the "therapy" has been for Pomni's benefit. Pomni finds the door but becomes aware that she can't leave because Caine didn't "finish" the world (Ep1), meets Gummigoo and realizes that the NPCs are essentially "fashioned" for specific roles and opens up before she accepts him as a friend (Ep2), and realizes that appreciating someone's presence can help both her and them remain sane within the Circus (Ep3). If he was intended as a "game creation" AI it's possible the adventures were meant for mental health/therapy, but given his inability to understand human expressions and mindsets he's unintentionally helping with their mental health while unable to help Zooble

[@akend4426]

This episode also showed a lot about Caine’s lack of understanding about human mentality. For all of his intelligence, he’s incapable of truly understanding what the players are going through because *it’s not part of his programming.* His main focus is the adventures, since that’s what he was originally programmed for. And while he does want to help the humans stay sane, his one-tracked way of thinking leaves him unable to see that he’s causing more harm than good.

[@raymondportis192]

It’s not that Caine refuses to help Zooble. He wants to, but he literally can’t because he’s not a human and can’t understand human emotions.

[@CAT-2323]

It’s interesting because I don’t think Caine means to gaslight he’s just following encoded protocols and well just doesn’t understand humans as an AI. I do like how he respects their identity through respecting their pronouns. He’s like a parent trying to care for a child’s issues but literally have no idea what they’re doing whatsoever. He truly needs therapy himself though, he’s wayyy too insecure.

[@MrSophire]

Same. Cane see to be clueless more so then malice.

[@hyena234thekids7]

​@@MrSophirei think the creator kinda confirmed that. That while Caine is a "antagonist",he's not evil nor does he have evil intentions.

[@QT3.14-w2p]

Yeah as well meaning as he is, and as much as he tries, Caine is NOT well equipped to care for the humans stuck in the circus

[@andrewmalinowski6673]

Maybe using Bubble as the "therapist" would be a better option, but even she seems crazy as Caine says in Episode one; "Why are you like this?"

[@CAT-2323]

@@andrewmalinowski6673 I mean… Bubbles is just an exaggeration of a dog imo (my dog is a giant goofball)

[@tomcaniff6437]

personally, I don't think Caine is *that* narcissistic. I think he's just incredibly insecure and is so desperate for validation that he's losing control of himself, and that's why he ended up taking advantage of Zooble.

[@saparapatepete]

I think Caine is way too limited to deal with issues outside the scope of his programming. He may act whacky and emote, but it's an AI programmed to act whimsical and give fun adventures. He doesn't understand issues like body dysmorphia or even the real world. If he really wanted to torment everyone he would have just made the "mature" route in the mansion.

[@QuartOfWater]

i feel like we need to cut caine some slack we just saw him starting to fall apart in the therapy session, and he was never human so he doesnt really understand anything other than his purpose which zooble pointed out he might be bad at the only thing he exists for. He has problems too and is dealing with them the only way he knows how to i think

[@dreameater4511]

Actual, non-pop culture narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by extreme insecurity and a need for external validation, often masked by loud or boisterous behavior as a defense mechanism because any negative views can basically destroy their sense of self-worth.

[@backwitdamilk8602]

Took advantage of her?

[@alphavasson5387]

​@@dreameater4511Yes this is exactly what I was going to say! The common perception of NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) is a bit more like ASPD (antisocial personality disorder), AKA a "sociopath," in that the afflicted individual shows a general disregard for others and little to no empathy and guilt/regret. In reality, NPD is an obsession with the self because of inner insecurity, and a constant need for praise. NPD is often, but not always, associated with childhood trauma and narcissistic parental figures. So according to the DSM 5, Caine fits the definition of a narcissist quite well. He has an inflated sense of self-importance (seeing himself as God and the circus "grandmaster"), is manipulative to those around him (gaslighting Zooble during therapy), and has a severe inability to admit he could be wrong (blaming the others for not telling him Kaufmo abstracted, believing his "Zooble parts" box is the solution to all of Zooble's problems and not accepting when Zooble tells him it isn't, insisting his adventures are great, etc.) Yet he never has any ill will towards the circus members, and his insistence is only because of his insecurity (as evidenced by his mental breakdown when he's confronted by Zooble and his belief that his adventures are the only things he's good at.) So yes, Caine seems to have NPD, but that doesn't mean he's heartless or evil. Rather, it means he's deeply insecure and flawed, and should probably seek therapy for himself before trying to be a therapist for anyone else. Tl;dr: Caine probably has NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), but doesn't fit the pop culture definition of a "narcissist."

[@Peepaw_Afton_Art]

Caine is the average BetterHelp therapist

[@RockWithSocks207]

Uhhh, is that a bad thing??? Please elaborate 😟

[@Unfunnygamer607]

LMAO

[@woahachannel]

​@@RockWithSocks207BetterHelp is a company that advertises itself as helping people get therapy. However, their "therapists" are absolute trash.

[@Dimensional-rifter]

Word

[@ActuallyYoda69]

@@RockWithSocks207 I imagine it IS a bad thing considering how bad Caine was at therapy, making it all about himself and all....

[@kevin4061]

7:08 I don’t think Cain is actually capable of listening, he’s AI, she’s having a conversation with a chat bot, and the conversation is going the same way you’d expect from a conversation with a chat bot. The thing with Cain is that he’s trying to do stuff that he can’t comprehend because the conversation goes back to his programing

[@2Average_BaconBoy]

I still think Caine is conscious to a degree, considering some of the npcs also were

[@roadkill_52]

@@2Average_BaconBoy or maybe the npcs are just trying to mimic conscience

[@sunny.rainbows]

He also was told to forget about it. He takes things literally, of course he would do what he’s told!

[@corax1996]

I was just thinking Cain can't remember Zooble's problem because they literally kept telling him to forget it. Every time Zooble said "forget it" Cain was confused not remembering what he was supposed to forget about.

[@sailordarty9032]

I felt like Caine's "forgetfulness" and breakdown aren't intentional. In fact, the forgetfulness is kinda explained when he says he forgot it because "it was already solved" like a calculator that wipes the numbers away once the equation is plugged in. Also, I kinda felt for Caine in his breakdown, especially when he was talking about "I'm bad at the only thing I'm supposed to be good at". I feel like if Caine is gaslighting, it's not intentional, or at the very least, not malicious.

[@OmniMon94]

Caine is definitely trying his best but he isnt really a human so he lacks any real "Empathy" to really try to help his little residents(except Jax because he's already solved in a different sort of way)

[@black-shadow-eclipse]

I love that they do with Zooble, their insecurities with their body can be seen as gender-nonconforming. They don't like themself, they hate their body, have problems finding their true self, they don't know with which person they can talk about that how they feel and if they would understand them. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to them.

[@thetntgirlanimation]

I see you like every video on this channel ma dude

[@typhoonboom]

you get it

[@nicogarci660]

I like to think That zooble has body dismorphia, instead of gender disphoria, but i guess both are right or come whit the other

[@albatross4920]

My question is did Zooble come into the circus with dismorphia, or did they gain that from being put in a mix match toy body?

[@caeronvar4868]

Likely the ladder, not the former​@@albatross4920

[@Girl-Supersonicboy]

as someone who deals with body dysmorphia, this hit hard when watching this episode. I was watching this episode with my boyfriend, and when this scene came up he put his hand on my knee. I had been seconds earlier giggling, and then this moment made me *very* quiet. This is a very digestible way for younger audiences to understand what someone with body dysmorphia goes through on a daily basis. We look at ourselves and see things we don't like or don't want. Some days are better than others, and some days you can't even look in the mirror

[@dev4159]

Genuine question and i really don't intend to say this with any malice, but why can't u just "accept it" exactly?

[@Leonagraphy]

@@dev4159 It’s like asking someone who’s depressed why they can’t just “be happy”. There’s a lot of factors involved, but at the end of the day it’s not something we can control. Body dysmorphia is horrible to deal with (as someone who also has to wrestle with it every day), and doesn’t disappear from accepting it, all we can do is try to find ways to cope with it.

[@mixoly-d6y]

@dev4159 or another example from what leo was saying, telling someone with body dysmorphia to 'just accept their body' is equivelent to telling someone who's blind to 'just see'

[@Girl-Supersonicboy]

@@dev4159 no malice felt! For me personally, I can accept my body is the way it is, but I can still not enjoy it. Example being I am fat, not morbidly overweight, but still fat enough that I got mercilessly bullied for it; by peers and family. When I was younger, I would look at myself, and a lot of the time all I heard was the words said or actions done to me. I could only stand looking at myself without clothes on for so long before I heard the words of my mother or grandmother. My own mother told 10-12 year old me that people would think I'm pregnant because of how fat I was and because I had stretch marks. My grandma viciously scolded me for going up a pant size, called me ungodly fat, and much *much* worse things were said. At that time in my life I became so dissociated from my own body that anything from the neck down was almost non-existent to me. I knew there was a body under the clothes I wore, but... I didn't want to acknowledge it. I've gotten better over the years and can accept this body is mine, but some days I can't ignore the voices in the back of my head. It's an ongoing battle, one that I know I'll have for life, but that's okay. I know I'll be okay. I got people who love me for me, and remind me of that daily.

[@dev4159]

@@Girl-Supersonicboy i see, thank you for the answer, but have you also considered working out on a gym ? It's healthy and i believe it can help you on the long run!

[@somewizardguy1495]

I feel that acting on the assumption that Caine is being purposeful with forgetting Zooble’s issue is wrong. Zooble said to Caine “just forget it.” Caine responds; “Forget it?” Zooble reiterated; “Forget it!” And Caine responds to that; “Forget what?” To me, that’s him acting on the user (Zooble’s) imput and acting accordingly. Caine is an AI, so it’s easy to see that as a lot of current AI act, he acts literally. So him forgetting that Zooble has explained their problems before isn’t him not listening, it’s his own literal following of an imput from Zooble to “forget it.” He’s built to make adventures, not understand emotional problems, but as a learning and generative AI, his programming attempts to adapt. And if his prime directive to be good at making adventures is called into question, that he’s bad at the one thing he was built to be good at, it causes him to have an existential crisis. So I do not believe the breaking down of the circus was in any way purposeful.

[@DarkmttrX]

I’m not that mad at Caine for how he acted because at the end of day, he is an AI who was only told to make wacky adventures for any humans that enter. Not emotionally help and support people who are stuck there.

[@Survivor_based]

I don't think Caine was programmed to do therapy....

[@albatross4920]

Yep, he was programmed to entertain. actually trying to help those in need or understand human needs is out of his programming and he can't really be creative outside of his limits.

[@kennethmckenna9636]

I think the Caine freakout scene is a hint to what will happen in the last and/or next to last episode where Caine will have a breakdown and the circus will begin to fall apart.

[@Mari_aboo]

My Caine figure was my actual therapist when I was in the worst times of my life, they'd ignore the problems I'd bring up in section because they "weren't the point" of what I was supposedly there for, my mom had signed me up because apparently I was intruding others conversations to try to fit in, but when I brought up to the therapist that I might have been feeling pressured by my mom to "make friends that could last a lifetime" (like she did) they said it couldn't be this because I could just *ignore my MOTHER'S words*, long story short I started attending their sessions just to have them play chess with me (they had a couple of board games in their office) for a couple of months before I quit therapy and socializing all together, you can only imagine how well that went for my mental health

[@Nightmarionne-FNaF]

No, Caine just wants to help. But he just can’t really think about anything really deep or else, you know, that happens…

[@thebigshotspamton5647]

I don't think Caine does the things he does out of malice or anything but because he can't do anything else. He is an AI and as such is limited to his knowledge/program and when Zooble tells him to "Forget It" he does that. He forgets the prior conversation and acts like they just talked about something diffrent. Not because he's evil or does'nt want to help but because his AI sees that as input and command to do so.

[@emeraldqueen1994]

With Cane being an AI, is it possible that he wasn’t INTENTIONALLY bullying Zooble but genuinely trying to connect with what they’re going through and just not being able to grasp it in a way that would show Zooble that he IS trying to understand but having trouble doing so? Example, I’m autistic and I’ll say something like “I need to get to X by Y time or I can’t do X until tomorrow because I’m going to be to busy” and I’m in MY head “get to” means it’s FULLY DONE but my mom thinks “get to” means it’s at least STARTED but may not be that far in, that type of thing… (this actually happened IRL, I had a meltdown over it because I felt like my mom was bullying me into thinking I was crazy / wrong but it was her not understanding what I was actually trying to say, my mom wasn’t gaslighting me ON PURPOSE)

[@kymerahYT]

People forget that Zooble keeps telling Caine to "forget about it" so he does. Zooble is at fault there too, not realising a trend in call and response.

[@sammcfarlane2494]

They all need therapy

[@Lumberjack_king]

But the good kind

[@sammcfarlane2494]

@@Lumberjack_king except Jax

[@ryverburns6541]

Agreed but there's a good chance they ain't escaping any time soon.

[@sammcfarlane2494]

@@ryverburns6541 yep

[@outlander.202]

@@sammcfarlane2494nah, Jax desperately needs it too, he’s got issues

[@burghleyimeanberdly6513]

My two cents: Caine is incapable of understanding Zooble's problems, he's an entertainment AI. He can't understand anything beyond how to entertain and is entirely unequipped to take care of the humans, hence the activities they do outside adventures amongst themselves.

[@LuisirockT19]

I agree with most of vídeo but I wouldnt say that caine ignores zooble problems, since hes an ai he still doesnt understand too well the feelings an emotion of a human. Thats why I think he feels like not caring, like he says he forgot about the problem bc he provide a solution, since hes a machine for him problems are like 1+1=2 so When he got a logical solution he moved on and forgot about It thinking that Was enough to solve it. Bc I do think that caine tries to understands the needs that the Humans want but doesnt get It well or found them confusing not able to process them good enough

[@tayloredwards4968]

I really did like this scene because we got to learn more about both of them.

[@Lord-Frieza_0]

Ok, i have a theory, Every time Zooble tells Caine to forget about it, it listens. It's like in his programming to delete data, the player wants gone, and so he listebs forgetting each time just following his programming

[@quetataylor]

I had really toxic friends and family. The type where they would always come with some sob story for help. But when I needed a little help would give nonchalant reasons why they couldn’t or , if they did, would be like pulling their teeth. Demanding for my to pay them back in different ways, but never paying me for the much bigger things I helped them with. I never made demands for pay or favor back because I was helping them cause they were in big trouble. When I would ask if they could help me in little things. I now know I was a doormat to them and cut them out of my life entirely and actually have been happier ever sense and a lot less stressed ❤

[@heitorgonzalesneto9189]

6:11 “in little ways” That line remembered me of that music “everything stays” from adventure time that says “everything stays” …”but still changes” It can be a music to interpret as something about identity because you’re still yourself but can change all the time

[@lilztacos7652]

I don’t think Caine is intentionally not listening. He seems to genuinely want to understand but can’t because he wasn’t programmed for it. I think it’s important to remember that no matter how human he seems, he’s not. There are human concepts he simply doesn’t and can’t understand. He tries his best to help zooble, but his best can never be good enough despite his efforts. Like others have mentioned, zooble telling Caine to “forget about it” might be why be why he can’t remember. He doesn’t understand that zooble is actually saying “I don’t want to talk about it” because he doesn’t understand the nuances of how humans speak.

[@redballoon9007]

Caine isn’t “refusing” to see Zooble’s problems. He really…can’t. He’s an AI. He’s one track minded and Gooseworx LITERALLY stated that he doesn’t understand complex human emotions. When Zooble says “forget it” he takes it literally and forgets. When Zooble says no one likes his adventures. He breaks, not because he wants Zooble to feel sorry and back off, but his entire purpose (and how well he’s doing it) is being called into question and since that’s all he’s built for, he starts to break. I know what you’re trying to say, but I don’t think that kind of analysis works for a character like Caine. To me, he feels more like a therapist who wants to genuinely help but doesn’t have the knowledge or tools to help and so he does the best he can. But he just doesn’t get or understands the needs of the others.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

"o me, he feels more like a therapist who wants to genuinely help but doesn’t have the knowledge or tools to help and so he does the best he can. But he just doesn’t get or understands the needs of the others." I've that Charlie from Hazbin is supposed to have a similar flaw.......wanting to help people but not knowing how.

[@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982]

Doesn't almost everyone in The Amazing Digital Circus need therapy at this point? Also yes, Zooble needs some help too.😅🥺

[@dejavous666.]

if Zooble needs help I do too

[@theironicmonster]

i think it literally is zoobles fault since they begin to explain, or hints at, that they knew exactly why caine doesn't remember things thy have told him: when they tell him to "forget it" he literally does. i could relate to zooble all i want, its still technically their fault for caines reactions... but only that, not that its their fault that the things being tried isnt working.

[@PentallMcwint3r]

I believe that who ever made Cain didn’t program him to have “progress” or to “learn” his just there to create to Ai to learn and to host who ever trapped there, might make a video on that myself actually.

[@OliverParker-r4d]

Caine probably works at better help!

[@lavender317]

Zooble's body really does work as a perfect allegory for dysmorphia and gender dysphoria. Them being a non binary person who doesn't know how their body should look and keeps changing it but can't find anything that makes them comfortable is so good and relatable and I love the characterization they get here

[@Minerveestar]

So about 1:12 , I’m pretty sure multiple people have already said that Gooseworx clarified that the only thing the circus members forgot about was their names. They still remember everything else. I’m not sure if these Digital Circus theories are made in bulk or made on the same day they come out, but you seriously need to fix that misconception. ALL DIGITAL CIRCUS MEMBERS CAN REMEMBER EVERYTHING FROM THEIR PAST LIVES *EXCEPT* FOR THEIR NAMES.

[@vao519]

i mean Zooble kept saying forget it, and i feel like Caine keeps taking it seriously bec hes an AI so he does literally forget these talks because Zooble said to do so

[@iambadatnamingthings3547]

I’ve been thinking about what you said last video about Caine opening the avatar files without a human to pilot them, what if, he doesn’t realise he’s opening them and subconsciously does so whenever an avatar abstracts? To keep the number consistent, and either the others haven’t noticed that someone new appears everytime someone else abstracts or he does it with sporadic intervals because it’s subconscious making it harder to place the link I say he does it subconsciously because he would’ve cleaned up the abstracted clown before Pomni got there I think

[@Waluigiwatchwaa]

I think your idea is good, but i think that Caine never meant to hurt anyone, he was created without those kinds of abilities and the function of creating adventures, unfortunately, upon hearing the implication that his adventures are bad, he knows that he is failing at his only job, causing the circus to fall apart as he cannot think other than "These people need to be happy, they arent happy. Im only good at making adventures, and im not" giving him some depth as his feeling of self-worth is damaged as he cant comprehend why hes failing like this. I can relate to this a bit as i feel like my one job is to make others happy, and when i fail them (8 times out of 10), i feel like im bad at the only thing i can do, causing my world to rupture

[@Lumberjack_king]

I’ve actually had quite a positive experience with therapy but it can definitely be harmful and toxic if you get a terrible therapist/and or organization

[@PurpleSphere95]

I was forced into therapy as a teen after my dad died. I had no say, no time to grieve on my own terms. I showed no signs of self harm but I cried often and wanted to vecleft alone. I was talked over a lot throughout it and couldn't go into detail about how I actually felt. I demanded the therapy sessions to stop after the third session because it was going nowhere and instead chose to continue masking since it was clear noone was going to help me. I'm nearly 30 now and still struggling but I'm not interested in going to therapy because now i have a choice to not get gaslit and talked over/ down to. I found my own forms of therapy and confronting my past traumas and learnt to stick up for myself and fight for my own future. Its still a struggle but in my experience traditional therapy caused me more trauma and made things worse.

[@Isiel42]

I hope that by the end of the series that Caine learns to take certain things seriously. We've seen bits in each episode where he makes a silly comment at a wildly inappropriate time, like the "why didn't anyone tell me" gag about Kaufmo. It's kind of relatable though because there are actual humans that are like him and are hard to deal with.

[@austinmiller2170]

What you said about the world of the Circus giving personalized avatars that don't grow with their users makes me wonder if that's how abstraction happens. When your avatar no longer reflects who you are, it glitches and decays.

[@zero69kage]

I related to Zooble a bit too much. I'm transgender and have severe body dysmorphia. I hate my body, I hate seeing my reflection, this is not who I am. I actually ended up drawing my own profile picture to make something that better reflects who I am.

[@mixoly-d6y]

I'm also trans but less of body dysmorphia and more body dysphoria for me. I was able to understand zooble so well when they said they don't like any of the parts they have. it's awful to feel like you'll never look the way you feel on the inside, I really hope we see more of that in this show.

[@EthanMastercrafter]

I never really suffered from body dismorphia but you talking about having a toxic role model actually hit pretty close to home, Ik somewhere she cared a lot but would lash out at me when i questioned things so i had to cut her out of my life, it was really hard to do so but i think i made the right choice at the end of the day, it kinda sucks because she taught me a lot and everything that i do feels like a small reminder of who she once was or how i saw her as, in my eyes the current her is dead to me and my old mentor lives on through my daily routines Sorry i don't know how to properly express how i connected with that portion of the video

[@maddeningpup1559]

I think it is a combination of narcissism and the fact cain is infsct an AI as to why he keeps forgetting. In the conversation zoobel also keeps saying "forget it" and hes an AI. Hes going to do as directed and forget. Dosent make the conversation any better but it does shead a bit of light on things. I also find it interesting that after zoobel ask whos therapy session it was next we see cain on the couch questioning the last adventure despite his previous signs of cracking. They both need help but in different ways. A drowning person cant help someone drowning. As they will both sink in the end.

[@them0thking]

Caine is the kind of therapist to tell you he's an empath then proceed to not listen to what you're actually try to tell them (I am projecting my own experience a bit admittedly)

[@nuraolblast1721]

My mom. Cain is just my mom. I got second hand frustration and rage from this, and even less desire to see a therapist and take the risk to get one who is not for me and waste the little money I have.

[@thedead_wraith]

Wow, this video really helped me to open my eyes about what my father was doing to me during the pandemic when I was depressed. Honestly the way you explained what Cain was doing to zooble, and your own experiences you've shared with your mentor, really shockingly brought up extremely similar parallels between the relationship with my father and I during the pandemic. This video was very enlightening to me, thank you so much.

[@HaughtyToast]

I'm not so sure Zooble themself even understands what the problem is. Even if Caine were a better listener, what he could do for Zooble is pretty limited as long as Zooble's thought process stops at "I don't like myself".

[@soulsmith4787]

The adventures are the _therapy._ Caine's purpose is to make these adventures, but he's clearly adapting them from the family friendly entertainment they're meant to be. His role is to curate and present content to *visitors* within the circus. The 'humans' we've seen are likely digital copies of actual humans in an attempt to create characters with more depth. This explanation is basically handed to us in episode 1 when Ragatha says they don't need to sleep. TADC would essentially be in its preliminary testing phase before the start of the alpha. Caine, despite his nature, is trying his utmost to help the humans who've found themselves trapped in his domain. The simulation is probably being accelerated, meaning they all put the headset on and had their minds translated into these forms in quick succession. Once the developers discover the majority of characters they've created have abstracted they'll reset or terminate the simulation.

[@Sillyfrog6205]

Therapy for all them please

[@lostone9643]

It feels like Caine is only able to understand on the most literal level, Zooble isn’t happy/comfortable with their body so Caine being AI took the most literal answer to the problem and provided them with parts to “fix” what was wrong. It doesn’t feel like he’s purposely trying to ignore/neglect Zoobles feelings it just feels like he doesn’t understand at all since he’s AI. At least that’s how I feel, I could very well be wrong.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

"Deep satisfaction with their existence" I wouldn't call it satisfaction since Zoobles constantly seems to have complained to Cain about the body parts issues and only stopped because Cain won't listen and help

[@AnneRaatz-xt2ro]

The mentor figure he was talking about reminds me of a toxic mentor I had awhile ago , I didn't realize how manipulated she was until after she used me.

[@sada-hoshi4331]

My mom is what is described Caine's behavior since I was little and still ongoing

[@AshenFox05]

All I am gonna say is that you experiencing something like that explains a good bit about yourself and why you do certain things. But good on you for overcoming that stuff

[@zakarybourbeau5750]

8:35 i do experience something like that, but i like genuienly forget, i talk to somebody and then like mid convo they make a reference to something that happend in the past and they have to like either like help put back the memory together or like litteraly tell me what i did for me to remeber and sometime i just straight up dont remeber at all even after all theyr attempts to make me remeber so i just have to trust theyr words.

[@Robozo0202]

I thought it was an interesting way of showing how limited Caine was as an AI

[@trinstonmichaels7062]

This show is getting too deep for my little brain and I still can't wait for the show.

[@Sgt.Paprika]

god, this episode and this video hits really close to home. i currently still live with the exact type of people you just described, and have been struggling to get out. it might be silly to mention but i genuinely appreciate when creators talk about this stuff, because i often have those moments where i question myself and think that maybe i am just overreacting. it's a breath of fresh air, a reminder that what these people do is infact wrong and that i don't deserve such treatment. anyways my favorite characters are kinger and zooble :3

[@apple1.32]

It could also be the issue that even if Zooble tells Caine about her problems, he has a big problem with empathy as he's just an AI and cant understand

[@studior2962]

Unrelated but when rewatching the episode, and I got to the part when Pomni said “He just wants me to suffer.” I feel like she wasn’t talking about Caine due to how vague saying “he” was. So I think she was referring to someone else, her boss perhaps, the one who purposefully put her in the Circus? Same with Caine going “I’m not the boss, oh wait yes I am” as well as Jax’s fourth wall breaks perhaps being targeted towards someone specific, is it all related to this “he” perhaps?

[@Vanitas42]

i honestly have to disagree with Caine’s brief existential crisis being orchestrated on any level. Since Caine is meant to be a sophisticated AI construct, he still has pretty set parameters: create fun adventures for players. Zooble literally made Caine think about the fact the one job he has that is his literal reason for existing…he is actually failing at. but it would seem that at risk of crashing, his programming went to a failsafe of redirecting those thoughts away and forget (which seems to be what happens when presented with something he can’t process properly).

[@MonsterMasterFightingLucario]

The sheer relatability… Everyone tells me my relationship is that my parents are doing what’s best for me… They might be… But to a point. Authority can be incredibly frustrating to deal with, be it your family or your so-called “friends” who want to change you solely so that they can be happy while you lose your will.

[@andrewsawsomeideasandanima6222]

The thing I found interesting about it was if it continues along maybe Caine would ask Zooble to make an adventure to see how it’s done and maybe have Caine be in the player’s position for that adventure.

[@-Kalamity]

Its the dark month and now is every Video dark ^^

[@CartoonUniverse]

haha this one was still using most of our normal music but felt too serious to use the happy normal song. that will be back in the next one im sure, won't be spooky all month.

[@jessefinnegan1719]

My ex was the same. She would forget that I even talked to her about the lack of cuddling and physical intimacy. So, for months/years I was left to get more frustrated and angrier until I finally snapped and broke it off. To be fair she has medical issues that are affecting her memory but it still doesn't mean I have to live touch starved.

[@apersonowo307]

Caine is SUPER not built for the situation he and everyone else is in.

[@Darth_Sithis]

I like the points you were drawing but personally I think subtly, sarcasm, and other various ways to talk we as people use, is just lost on Cain. He is an A.I, which to me, means he’s extremely literal. He might be advanced but I think when he was told to forget about it, he literally does. I can see the Parallel you’re going for but I’m not sure ,in universe Cain is trying to be malicious or controlling intentionally. The people of the circus clearly understand Cain about as much as he understands them. Saying things with different meanings or intent which would be lost on Cain and cause these misunderstandings or seemingly forgotten or ignored interactions. Forgot about it, is such a common thing for people to use when they don’t want to get straight to the point or open up about something. But would you really expect a logical literal A.I to get? Especially if those kinds of interactions go outside of what he’s programmed to do? As I doubt therapy is an actual thing he’s equipped for naturally. Maybe his programming well advance to that point? Maybe not. It’ll be interesting to see what kind of growth the characters go through and whether Cain will join them on that journey

[@MollyDollyy774]

I loved episode 3 of TADC, I have 2 favourite moments: 1: The Therapy session. And Caines little moment of sadness where the whole Digital Circus glitched 2: When Pomni and Kinger spoke... That moment od backsprry about who might have been Queeny. The backstory of Kingers wife when she abstracted... I know the feeling of being hurt honestly... I go through manipulation: - Infantilization - Love bombing - Gaslighting - Blackmail - Playing the Victim - Silent treatment - Isolation - Trianglisation - Aggressive Joking - Changing the subject I also deal with Transphobia, and had some past neglect, I have no Control of my life and dunno what to do. And Caine Gaslighting is pretty creepy, reminds me of when my mother and father both yelled at me for telling someone that I was having bad thoughts, my mother cried. Not from concern but from anger saying that I was _"Tearing this family apart"_

[@brjefrco]

It's not gaslighting , ( they said forget it and it cleared his cache

[@Kumori90]

Deepcut...thought you'd be Jackcut or...Deepbox this time.

[@JuliuszCessar]

Yeah. It was just like: -Zooble, what's wrong? *Tells an excuse* -No, not that excuse Caine only listened to what he wanted to hear.

[@Murderducky4u]

This episode really hit very close to home with me as well, having delt with gender dysphoria and having parents that don't exactly understand what I'm going through. Overall I'm really glad glitch and gooseworks could bring this topic up to help fans relate more to Zooble and feel less alone. This episode was absolutely amazing and the fact that it is LGBTQ inclusive makes it so much more enjoyable, thank you glitch and gooseworks ❤

[@gladdymarie16]

The narcisissm topic also hit close to home. The gaslighting and deception and his forgetfulness on the things he should have been accountable for, and him pushing Zooble to tell him where he got wrong only to end up talking about his feelings when Zooble became vulnerable reminds me of my ex for 12 years.

[@dredgeduner]

Man that hits hard in away. For my experience my authority figure was my principle when I would get into physical altercations with my bullies I am the one who gets into trouble because the voice of the many outweighs the voice of the few. Overall awesome video

[@karasumacha7559]

The thing is i think Cain represents more then someone who doesn't understand someone suffering from body dismorphia. he represents somone who wants to help but doesn't know how. Like parent or friend who goes shopping to get a bunch of clothes they think you'll like so you can choose your own style. Their not adressing the actual issue your having but at least there trying to help you. There not trying to be malicious or cruel, they just don't understand because you don't understand yourself. not everyone can automatically relate to another persons struggles that doesn't mean they don't care about you. Thats what i feel Cain represents in this scenario. someone who cares and wants to help but ultimately cant. In the context of the show Cain can't actually help Zooble or the other characters. As he's said he has no control over there minds what they think how they will act or what they will say. As an A.I. he is incapable of rather ironically abstract thought, or understanding emotional problems, he can only think of things in the literal sense. I imagine he's trying to do everything he can to help the players but that help translates to follow his programming, which is to maximizing there enjoyment of the circus. He sees they are not enjoying themselves, so he looks for as many ways as he can to do so. so his adventures and attempts are iradic and chaotic.

[@moemuxhagi]

This is making the bloody Everest out of the tiniest ant colony. Caine is just an *idiot,* he's a rudimentary program with no emotionnal intellect whose only goal is creating adventures. He's not some master manipulator. Hell, he doesn't even know what he's doing, half the time. Caine's "orchestrated metldown" was not him purposefully panicking to maintain order, he doesn't know what that means ! He's a program being told that he was created to only do one thing, but to now stop doing it and do something else. _He's a computer facing a paradox._ And we all know how computers handle paradoxes.

[@CartoonUniverse]

saying its making an Everest out of an ant colony is actually making it an Everest. this is just a video discussing how an episode made people feel with how it portrayed a toxic approach to therapy. Its clearly meant, like all media, to inspire certain thoughts and conversations. He's not just a program, he also has emotional needs.

[@digishade7583]

I would say like all the “players” in the digital circus Caine is in need of mental health care as well. In the candy canyon episode he literally experiences existential dread at the idea of not knowing who is a human and who is an NPC. And then in this episode we see a much worse episode of it when he’s told he’s bad at making adventures as if he’s bad at his one original purpose what’s the reason for his existence? All this to say I’m pretty sure he needs help as much as the “human” members of the circus.

[@amikkomoon5273]

I actually see myself in Cain the most in this episode because i struggle with problem solving when I’m supposed to be listening. If i love you i want to fix all your problems but that’s not why people vent.

[@marialash4925]

Called Zooble they/them someone uses Zoi

[@waddledoo2you13]

Idk this kinda boils down to can you make an ai understand things humans can? The dude is literal and only is programmed to entertain. He’s not a god as some would say. He’s just an AI himself.

[@lynnboartsdye1943]

The therapy parts of the episode are by far my favorites, as an enby while I’m far from Gender fluid there is this annoyance at being put in a box by others or moving from one aesthetic to another. You notice more when people comment on your body or how they see you and it feels inescapable. I’d almost compare it to moving homes, your mail keeps getting sent to the old house and depending on the sender updating the address for others can be difficult and time consuming.

[@A.Rgamez-u3w]

2:10 you did very good in my opinion on describing in my experience

[@kreimabao6828]

This includes the other characters tho as their personalities might or will change. For example Pommi we all though anxiety so she will change at some point. 4:31

[@StrawberryMilkshake-oh9hi]

I don't think it was intended for cane to be little bit narcissistic in this case even though it comes off like that I think it was intended That cane is an AI and will do perfectly whatever someone says for him to do he will do remember Zooble saying you're probably not listening so he did just that he drew a bee Or zooble would say just forget it and he would Take that literally and instantly forget it Including forgetting about the entire conversation before zooble said anything Zooble is trying to get compassion out of Cain but Cain isn't responding the way she thinks because cain is on AI programmed to do exactly what ever the user wants them to do And therefore can't understand zooble feelings fully cain isn't choosing to ignore zooble here he trying to do what is asked of him perfectly and literally because that's what he was made and programmed to do

[@indigo9118]

i don't wanna name names but there is at least one figure in my immediate life who does this 'forgetting' thing -- in the same vein of 'forgetting' something that I said literally yesterday/an hour/a few minutes earlier. Not only is it hurtful that I can TELL that they're fake-forgetting but it's frustrating that while I KNOW they know I'm onto them, they keep on doing it anyway. Also that 'maintaining order to get a reaction they want' thing fits with this person as well.

[@colorstar22]

Ok i got a theory about what Caine can be in a "philosophical" way. I think he can be a representation of AI art (with the toxic figure also can be another representation) because he a AI, he couldn't create adventure that look "fun" and "good". He like how AI art feel "soulless".

[@bloodrinker]

wym those adventures look lit as hell

[@SecretSwifty]

Zooble is, fittingly, such a multifaceted character to me. IDK if they'll touch on it but they feel like an allegory for both gender/body dysphoria and being disabled. Being stuck in an uncooperative body that makes daily tasks difficult and makes you "off-putting" to other people.I see a lot of ppl make zooble an amputee when making a human form for them which, while there should be more rep, feels a little too on the nose I guess? Like there are more disabilities than missing a limb. As a disabled person myself I like to think they had an "invisible" disability before coming to the circus, like arthritis, chronic fatigue, or some condition that mskes it difficult to walk or something. And like it would track for this weird sense of shame they seem to have for their body, since it's often seen as "shameful" or at least pitiful for someone so young to have a disability like that.

[@francisherson1690]

Ah, yes. Jack-in-a-Cut.

[@StardustOwO]

1:02 if I could join the digital circus I would. I want to know more about myself.

[@A-and-nightblossom]

9:43 in a group project. So it was a dance and they were like trying to make us feel guilty for messing up and the thing is it was only on how good you did the dance not your group partners. They were saying stuff like "Do you want me to fail? 😭" basically pretending that we would go out of our way to fail just to see her fail. Like no! We don't want to fail either! I'm pretty sure I'm a magnit to toxic friends🥲 Cause not only did I figure out my friend group was toxic to me that other friends outside of my friend group was toxic to😭 Srry I'm going off top rn. Anyways back to the topic so yeah she endes up making our whole group stay back to practice only to then on purpose mess up and annoy our whole group because she said she was just copying all of us on how we were messing up which was like so damn annoying because she was the one to make us stay back at lunch time. I HAD A DAMN OTHER THING I NEEDED TO DO THAT BREAK SO I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET IT OVER WITH SO I COULD DO THAT OTHER THING! Why the heck is High school were everything goes downhill? 😭 Srry for venting 🥲

[@fluffy_bee17]

the question if we have one time found ur own cains feels like for me yea i found my cain and its my self a way i feel like i cant allow my self to feel stuff just out of fear being judge or my self image i build up break down and me not being the happy person i am or supposed to be

[@hisho2255]

I sympathize with caine, I too am bad at the one thing I was made to do.