The Deck That Is Impossible to Play Correctly | We Try the Judge Tower with

[@CardmarketMagic]

🗼Find the decklist to the Tower here along with the rules here: bit.ly/48w5Z6P

[@maartenverbeek134]

Carl should have died on 3:21 though ;-)

[@CardmarketMagic]

​@maartenverbeek134 you only die in judge tower if someone calls you out ;)

[@CardmarketMagic]

​@maartenverbeek134 but also, I don't think there was anything that would cost me the game there 🤔

[@maartenverbeek134]

@@CardmarketMagic your thought scour was in the graveyard before you finished resolving it (draw)

[@CardmarketMagic]

@maartenverbeek134 oh that's not a rules infraction unless someone declares that it's in the graveyard. In competitive magic it's very common for players to put their spells/fetch-lands directly into their graveyards to denote casting playing them

[@BoltTheEmolga]

Something to note, the biggest rule of Judge Tower: It’s not a loss if nobody notices it is. It’s complicated for a reason, and we can’t expect them to be perfect.

[@xchronox0]

Yup! A lot of comments forget that players are only eliminated if another player actually calls out a rules violation. If none of the other players catch it, then you can slip by.

[@HyperactiveSloth79]

​@@xchronox0Most of us are commenting because they told us to let them know what they missed. 😎 Comments are important to the algorithm too.

[@beefpelican]

Carl absolutely deserved his damage win. If a player wins with damage in judge tower, they were also keeping track of a critical mass of confusing permanents at the time. Kenobi even destroyed his own creatures to decrease his complexity.

[@ThymeTwister]

He managed to play his way through that confusing mass of triggers perfectly, absolutely he deserved that.

[@calebsayles]

Shouldn't he have been buzzed for not activating the Tattermurge during everyone's upkeep though? It was really bothering me in round 2?

[@Noah_eotlr]

​@@calebsayles1:49. They explain this exact phenomenon.

[@Dracomandriuthus]

​@@calebsaylesNobody called him on it. If you dont judge call someone for their mistakes in judge tower, youre the one responsible.

[@xchronox0]

@@calebsayles *Buzz* It's not "shouldn't he have been", it's "Could've been". There's no rule stating that a player must buzz when there's literally any rules violation. This isn't some sort of "Video challenge" or anything, it's a tabletop game using magic cards. A player MAY buzz when they spot another player violating a MTG rule, or one of the additional judge tower rules. If they are correct on their call, THEN that player is eliminated. If they are incorrect on their call, then the buzzer is eliminated. Another human has to be in that moment (with no pausing because pausing doesn't exist IRL) and actually notice a rules violation.

[@matthugenberg8869]

Fun fact, when someone dies on their turn, you actually continue through their turn so that end of turn effects and such happen. So norin actually WOULD come back in Vince's end step.

[@GrayVMhan]

Is this a judge tower thing or multiplayer magic? Cause this would change the outcome of some commander games

[@dokol2]

​@GrayVMhan It's a Magic thing

[@DemonBlanka]

Is that Judge Tower specific? Because part of the process of players losing the game is that all their triggers and cards are removed from the game. Is Norin not counted as a delayed trigger and thus, ceases to exist?

[@huckthatdish]

@@DemonBlankaNorin isn’t Vince’s trigger though

[@Melissanoma]

When a player leaves, all of THAT PLAYER's effects go. Norin's controller wasn't the one who left.

[@mikotagayuna8494]

We once tried our version of the Judge Tower to demonstrate our knowledge of the rules to a watching newbie. The first player proceeded to play a Humility then we promptly soiled ourselves.

[@hyoroemongaming569]

Does that affect creature outside of battlefield?

[@AlienValkyrie]

19:40 JUDGE! Drawing for turn happens right at the start of the draw step, as a turn-based action that doesn't use the stack. Only after drawing for turn does the active player get priority and triggered abilities, such as those triggering at the beginning of the draw step, get put on the stack. (The same mistake happens again the following turn.)

[@bondeulv]

A lot of people believe "At the beginning of your draw step" means before they draw their card for the turn. I played Magic for over 10 years before it was made clear to me that it works the way you said.

[@kaszael]

was looking for that comment. I played too many Sylvan Libraries in my life and it has the same wording for its trigger.

[@Tharkon]

This was changed in 8th edition so anyone making the mistake might have missed that rules change. Before 8th edition drawing a card for turn used the stack and any triggers would be placed on top of it on that stack.

[@MEver316]

I knew about this one because my brother plays Teferi's Puzzle Box in his Queza Auger of Agonies Commander deck. I hate that card so much, especially when he has Teferi's Ageless Insight out as well...

[@BaldurtheImpious]

Never stop bringing the best content, I watch so much cardmarket content that when I shop for cards I search for it by mistake, mixing it up with card kingdom. The great pond separates us. 😢

[@CardmarketMagic]

Thank you for the kind words :) hopefully one day we'll cross that pond!

[@theNightDice]

It's interesting to see another variant on Judges Tower rules! Here's what I'm used to playing with: - All players have infinite life and infinite mana, the only way to lose is a rules infraction. - All players share the same library, but graveyards and exiles are separate. (relevant for Flashback and other mechanics like it) - At the end of a round (after only one person remains), all graveyards are exiled and the new round starts (becomes relevant for cards like Squee) - X is 5. - If you may, you must. - If a card has multiple abilities, you activate as many as you can, starting from the last and working back up to the first. - Each ability you can legally activate (keeping in mind the previous rule) must be activated exactly once per turn . If a card gets flickered by its own ability, it counts as a new card, but the activated ability flickering it counts as activated for the turn - If you manage to create a non-optional infinite loop, you win - Last player standing wins - Any player, not just the ones still in the game may call out rules infractions (this makes it go faster in general) - Your starting hand size is determined by your judge level. - Highest judge level at the table begins, ties are broken by dice rolls - If nobody calls out the rules infraction by the next time priority has passed around the table, you can no longer lose the game for it - "Shortcutting", i.e. skipping steps and phases of the turn implicitly, is allowed, as long as no other player wants to interact with a given phase. - All creatures that can attack, must attack. All creatures that can block, must (this is essentially an extension of "if you may, you must") I think that's all of them. If I missed any, I'll add them once I remember. Glad to see more attention brought to my favourite way to fry my brain!

[@moshimeshowu747]

That intro was absolutely incredibly clever, teaching us the rules of the way it works while also being good for engagement

[@Penguirrel]

21:30 After the first Wildest Dreams resolves but before the second fizzles Carl should have cast his instants in hand.

[@chargingbadger867]

Also, shouldn't he have been forced to target 5 different cards? If you may becomes you must then meletis charlatan says "you must choose new targets for the copy"

[@blightyfrogs]

I am actually really curious about this, as what do you do if there are not any alternate valid targets? Are you unable to activate meletis?

[@SporkNotFork]

⁠@@chargingbadger867I’m pretty sure as long as you cast it it’s fine. I think the “you must” was more in reference to kickers and such. While they were on the stack technically the targets were valid for both, but after the first one resolved the second one couldn’t target them anymore as they were no longer there so it fizzled

[@Tharkon]

He must choose new targets but as part of the action of choosing new targets you may leave any targets unchanged. It's confusing in plain English but that's how it works in Magiceze. In fact since you may leave any targets unchanged a very literal interpretation of Judge Tower would mean that when you may choose new targets you must choose new targets and since as part of that you may leave targets unchanged you must leave targets unchanged.

[@comvnche]

and I think they put in in the graveyard

[@ClubbingSealCub]

20:40 judge! phasing is in the untap step!

[@sh4dowf0xx55]

YES! I CAUGHT THAT ONE TOO

[@patoudude6034]

Pretty crazy that a judge's tower video comes out when yesterday I was rewatching the old one hoping for a new judge's tower video.

[@CardmarketMagic]

You made this happen!

[@NiiRubra]

Thanks for making this happen, patoudude

[@jmv333]

Fun fact: At 20:38 when Carl draws from Heightened Awareness prior to drawing for turn, that is incorrect (though inconsequential obviously). During the draw step, the active player draws their card for turn first, and only afterwards do any 'beginning of draw step' triggers go on the stack. You *always* draw your card for turn before anything else in the draw step, the draw happens immediately upon the end of the upkeep with no opportunity for any priority or any triggers (not applicable in cases when you are skipping your draw ofc).

[@benji-menji]

Imagine going through a hidden pyramid avoid terrible Traps that are life threatening, but in the final room that is just papyrus scroll racks through the whole room you see three mummies around a table with a stack of papyrus cards in the middle.

[@GlubtasticYT]

Judge Tower again!!! Excellent!!

[@bluexco]

There's something about Judge tower that makes it the best ! Like you always hate that rules lawyer friend during casual magic but in a game where you all have to be rules lawyers it's great! Surprised I haven't seen more games of these with other MTG icons or KZbinrs. Glad you at least did a second! Keep up the good work Cardmarket!

[@mrsplays9817]

People hate the Rule Lawyer until the game becomes a mess of rulings

[@MindstabThrull]

At 20:30 BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!! - Phasing happens during the untap step, not upkeep. Vince has been playing long enough, he should be aware of that one. ;)

[@PleasantKenobi]

Did you hear me hesitate because I wasn't sure? Listen back to it - you can hear it in my voice. :(

[@MindstabThrull]

@@PleasantKenobi Yeah, mind you phasing is weird anyways. It's the only thing you can do on untap other than, well, untap. Also would have expected Thoralf to get it but he was already knocked out IIRC. Love seeing you join CardMarket - or anyone else for that matter

[@Sladeking713]

Didn't Carl also attack with the phased out creature?

[@Nilmur2]

@@Sladeking713 nope, it's next to the enchantments during the attack step.

[@wikidclowne6891]

Fun fact: phasing is the first thing to happen in the untap step, followed by day/night changing, THEN untap permanents.

[@joev1083]

The 100 gecs shirt is perfect for this chaotic episode

[@ericbarr734]

What a fun game that nobody would ever want to play with me. 8:51 BUZZ! Jamin is out. The turn doesn't just end if someone is eliminated. The rest of the phases still happen, the eliminated player just gets skipped. Norin should still come back. > 800.4i If a player leaves the game during their turn, that turn continues to its completion without an active player. If the active player would receive priority, instead the next player in turn order receives priority, or the top object on the stack resolves, or the phase or step ends, whichever is appropriate.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

This is so good!! I want to play and fail miserably… For anyone interested, “at the beginning of your draw step” effects happen after you draw for turn.

[@niathdialf]

I absolutely love this format! Perfect for guest appearances.

[@ColourfulAnimals]

With the 2nd Wildest Dreams copy on the stack, Carl should've cast all the instants returned to his hand. JUDGE!

[@Fierlyt]

Indeed. 21:32 - Missed opportunity by PK.

[@eq2lornick]

The win by damage was amazing. Absolutely deserved the win.

[@TheDartrunner]

I starting building one after your first Judge Tower video, and have slowly been getting people at my LGS to play it during commander nights. Happy to see it come back on the channel.

[@hikarusorano9420]

20:38 At the beginning of each phase and each step, you first perform actions determined by the game engine and only then receive priority to add abilities to the stack and cast spells. At the beginning of the draw step, you must first draw a card for the turn and only then draw a card for the enchantment ability under Carl's control.

[@vctrsigma]

That was bothering me too since I know that used to be the case but have been out for a long time. But the current comprehensive rules 504.1 and 504.2 still say "First, the active player draws a card. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack" then "Second, the active player gets priority". So yeah, the draw 1 card is a special action at the start of the draw step without using the stack or anyone having priority.

[@dockyx3]

Yes i absolutely loved when you played judge tower first time and i couldn't find any other good videos like that one. Thanks for another one

[@yuriemmettippi4503]

Oh yes, judge tower! I learned about it from your first video and since then it became my favourite format!

[@galnon9064]

Game #2, when a trigger is at the begening of a draw step. You draw before the trigger happens. Plus, Flashback was not used to cast the final spell. Seems like a really fun minigame!

[@amayans4230]

That is the correct way to play for the draw step example. The turn based action of drawing a card happens first, then the draw step trigger occurs

[@baruta07]

The Judge's Tower one of my friends built had a couple basic lands in there just to add the "Gotcha" of being able to float mana during the untap step

[@ilsignoredellaluce2234]

This was so fun, i'd totally enjoy watching other similar videos !

[@TheBirdOfParadox]

Yes, Judge Tower! I love watching this format so much and I always learn something new. I also get the impression that Carl had a lot of fun putting company expanses like Big Red Button and Red Light Lamp onto the list. Live your best life, its fun to watch :)

[@charlesf.9904]

Yay, more judge tower! 😄

[@michaelsinnreich6626]

This is easily one of the best formats I have learned about thanks to you all.

[@XTimTheEnchanterX]

Excited to see judge tower make its comeback, I always love when you guys play wacky formats.

[@DerringerHK]

This was so brilliant, guys. Great banter, great format, and a great guest in Vince :) Hopefully you guys were able to get a couple more videos in with him before he had to fly back!

[@ReederMG]

I'm ecstatic that y'all did another one of these. Keep em coming

[@oafkad]

That intro had me rolling. Been a rough week, this was a great surprise. I love Judge Tower.

[@aryst0krat]

This was fantastic as always! Loved that damage win, wild for Judge Tower!

[@Weregoatee]

Love it so much. Judge tower seems like a blast to play, uh, in an altered state of mind

[@Unpetraccable]

Man, I love judge tower and this channel! The variety, humour and culture mix you bring is honestly unparalleled

[@CardmarketMagic]

Thank you :D that's so kind of you to say!

[@bricelory9534]

I was thinking only yesterday that I hope CardMarket would return to Judge Tower! How fun!

[@erikbrewer500]

I was first introduced to Judge Tower when I was studying to become an L1 back in ‘16/‘17(?), it was such a fun way to reinforce things I knew and learn so many things I didn’t!

[@erikbattles]

I'd love to see you make Judge's Tower a reoccurring feature on the channel. It's always fun trying to follow along with all the rules interactions

[@JelloSalad021]

Y'all have no idea how many times I've watched your original Judge Tower vid, I've been blessed

[@neco9590]

Oh yeah, more Judge Tower! Now with the big red button! Love it.

[@tessajanes9626]

Love the Judge's Tower content

[@AnonYmous-et4mz]

This was a blast, thanks a lot :) Always great when different formats get showcased and I personally really like Vince, so it's basically a toofer^^

[@MrGrovak]

Love the judge tower content! Its such an interesting form of playing magic.

[@KlittoD]

On the edge of my seat the entire video! Great editing!

[@sagacious03]

Fun run & analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

[@Ent229]

It is interesting to notice how the Judge Tower rules change between pods playing it. Previously I heard about X=3, infinite life, or the activated ability restriction being once per turn instead of per turn cycle.

[@MisterIbis]

AAH! It's back! Thank you guys so much, this is a ton of fun to watch every time.

[@CGA003]

I've never heard of Judge Tower before today, and I absolutely *loved* this video. I really hope you do more of it in the future.

[@Sillimant_]

I adore judge tower, I could watch the videos endlessly

[@cemperable]

23:31 Vince missed that Carl had to cast Silent Departure with its flashback cost to bounce one of his own creatures. Could have won there!

[@joshuamcrae6819]

I believe that is under their cycle rule where they only need to cast the spell once in a full round of turns. Otherwise most of the flashback cards would just end up being played back to back and won't need to be remembered.

[@Mentir42]

Really fun showcase! Love seeing judge tower played

[@RealLink_]

Loved the last judge tower video and this one was even better!

[@Verlisify]

"Do we go to damage?" *Carl checks graveyard* ".... yes"

[@Starcrash6984]

It's a clever format, but even better, the tower contains very clever cards for it. So much suspense!

[@hwosaidicantfreerun]

im loving this new set of "watch Vince dunk on the cardmarket crew for x time" trend of videos xD

[@stellaartemis6354]

I’d love to see another one of these, this was so good

[@fatpad00]

I love the judge tower videos. Great to so PK guest starring too!

[@gabagoof]

vince has the energy of that kid at recess who introduces everyone else to a game and then flexes how much more he knows than the newbies at every turn

[@Joebob31100]

Absolutely love the Judge Tower games. Hope to see more in the future

[@beaubeaubeaubeaubeau]

21:20 JUDGE! Meletas charlatan states that you may choose new targets for the copy, thus Carl should have chosen different targets for the copy of wildest dreams.

[@signisakanades1329]

5:17 Jamin would lose right? He didn't target the Cyclops with the Vanish into Memory with Atlas on the stack.

[@signisakanades1329]

Also at 8:56 When a turn ends, the active player's cards/effects leave the stack and the stack concludes, the turn then ends and passes on.

[@tomdegroot1133]

Creatures can't be the target of spells at this point. See Carl's enchantment.

[@tajtellick]

@@tomdegroot1133he played cyclops, atlas, then the enchantment in that order

[@signisakanades1329]

@@tomdegroot1133 He cast the enchantment after.

[@bondeulv]

The card viewer on the side was incorrect. Jamin only had Norin and the Heartwood Storyteller in hand until his draw step when he drew the Vanish.

[@gypsieking3280]

I love the spotlight on obscure formats.

[@mittertag1864]

Seeing Carls last turn in game two felt like an eternity. The fact, that he could remember all his effects and triggers AND masterfully distract his opponent with majestic hand flailling. It was spectacular

[@andrewsheiman8574]

9:06 JUDGE!!!! (the turn should have continued without an active player. The turn wouldn't simply end)

[@ReidFisher86]

[buzzer]6:23 shared graveyards. Thoralf put the 2 cards into graveyard off of thoughtscour.

[@Alejandrodemontana]

Another great episode guys, I don’t get to play much magic due to commitments and this is one my favorite ways to live vicariously! Keep up the good work.

[@CardmarketMagic]

I'm happy you enjoy our content :D we'll try to give you the best vicarious experiences we can!

[@Gemasted]

Carl not resolving the draw triggers correctly was such a great opportunity for the others to win.

[@SchuddeMell]

thank you for another judge-tower game : ) amazing turns with the quite unexpected combat win and i had to laugh at "this table is only big enough for the *pause and realization*... one of us" :D

[@Jesin00]

11:50 "Choose new targets" is only for spells that are already on the stack. These copies are created in exile (because that's where the originals are), so it says "may cast the copy without paying its mana cost" instead.

[@Frommerman]

I had a friend with a MASSIVE Judge's Tower for a while. Thousands of cards. We managed to draw a card from an empty library once despite this. By the time we did it, there were probably millions of spells on the stack including almost every creature in the tower (Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir was briefly on the battlefield. We got around that by casting a Yawgmoth last, sacrificing the Teferi, and Rerouting the ability to retrigger the Eye of the Storm with Mind's Desire under it), countless Mind's Desire copies, and almost everything else the deck could throw at us.

[@ThePancaked1]

Jamin's face when he sees the Endless Whispers at 13:00 😂 I read that card like 5 times without getting it the first time i saw it

[@Mightypi]

That 1st round ending in raw unprocessed chaos is exactly what I come hear for

[@eskurian8565]

Love these Judge Tower videos! More please! :D

[@SuperTheNobody]

8:58 JUDGE! Norin should return there is still an end step according to rule 800.4j

[@AdolfCritler210]

Hooray! Another Judge Tower! I hope you guys keep this up with more guests. These episodes are hilarious!

[@disafear3674]

Judge Tower with the Cardmarket crew is always some killer content!

[@Lordmuhkuh23]

Judge! 20:45 - actually you first draw for turn. The first thing that happens in the draw step is that the active player draws a card, aka "draws for turn". So if e.g. someone has a Kami of the Crescent Moon in play, players could respond in the draw step before the active player draws their second card, but not before the first. From the comprehensive rules: 504. Draw Step 504.1. First, the active player draws a card. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. 504.2. Second, any abilities that trigger at the beginning of the draw step and any other abilities that have triggered go on the stack. 504.3. Third, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities.

[@doim1676]

If i remember correctly phasing in and out actually happens at the beginning of the untap step and not at the beginning of upkeep

[@SpySappingMyKeyboard]

Judge tower is great. The first time I heard of the way life worked I thought it was silly, but now that I see it actually happen those rules make a bunch of sense. Carl absolutely deserved his win.

[@rav5373]

Fun fact (19:50), you actually draw your card per turn first and then the "at the beginning of your drawstep" triggers are even put on the stack.

[@vinwonsenobi]

20:33 Carl Loses Phasing is a special action that happens before untap which is before upkeep

[@alanpulido3205]

The beginning of this video is a great example of the differences from an experienced mtg player and thoralf. That was to funny.

[@smeatar]

This video makes me realize how weird my level of magic knowledge is because I have barely played and I don't know many famous cards that even beginners would know, but I find weird little interactions super interesting so I have read up on a lot rules that even many seasoned players wouldn't know.

[@Rantheracoon]

Fun fact last time this was played people in the comments were mad at them for not calling others out. I am happy to see this back again.

[@christianhanel2129]

Hoes always mad in the comments, however i shall remember what the judge guy said last time which was that if noone called something out it technically isnt playing wrong

[@purplelilypervincle4898]

Today I gas a really bad day, but your videos Always help me smile. Thank you for making my day ❤ also the First video with the judge tower is one of my favorite really Happy to watch another One ❤

[@CardmarketMagic]

I'm sorry to hear that today hasn't been so good. I'll be thrilled if our silly games help with it even a little :)

[@braedzero8127]

PK's gecs shirt threw me for a loop lmao

[@SquibbyJ]

I love judges tower and seeing Pleasant Kenobi being on the ball was fun

[@omegavulture8379]

I just love judge tower. More judge tower! MORE!

[@jahs3897]

In Rd 2 Carl commited at least the following rules infractions: 1) Phasing happens on untap not upkeep 2) Did not use instants while the original wildest dreams was still on the stack (the copy resolved and cards were put in his hand) 3) Put mystic melding into the graveyard prior to putting the enchantment in the graveyard

[@rakkis1576]

Ngl this was rivetting to watch. Hope you guys do Judge Tower again in the future.

[@ulyssessanchez2328]

I honeslty love this game mode And that one where Kenobi brought his weird deck

[@DaAvengerMenace4]

@ minute 9. Norin's errata says "at the beginning of the next end step." which would be in Thoralf's end step

[@DeadlyGrim]

I think your "fake" game in the intro in order to explain the rules was very neat. Good way of showing off something pretty complicated!

[@olly123451]

Nice to see a copy of Permeating Mass in this Judges Tower. It’s a great card to have in the pile, and I own ~500 of them

[@PokeRedstone]

This hurts my brain to try and follow but I can feel myself understanding magic more as I go.