The Decline of Crowd Control Modes In Warframe

[@NovaUmbral]

One thing I forgot to note with Arbitrations is having very high killing radius and extreme KPM yields more vitus as the loot progression is tied to killing drones, which further dampens CC's use even in game modes that are innately control focused.

[@praneelprasad5042]

DE’s made their meta and stuck to it since…KPM be like that… Tho personally, I don’t mind it so long as they can implement better team play since it feels like I’m competing with my fellow Tenno instead of working together to increase efficiency(probably cause it’s easier to play a aoe dmg frame rather than trying to make something different work/setup)…idk

[@lookalike4805]

That and the Drones are Immune to Crowd Control anyways....

[@klutz8019]

I think interception, defense, and survival rotations should be changed to AABCCCCCC... like arbitration does. This would make people want to stick around longer for farming.

[@matthewmartinez3550]

@@klutz8019 I'd add to it that every mode with non-unique drops should be AABC, CCCC... Basically anything except the corpus proxima survival (Ash) and defense (Nautilus), Sedna and Deimos Disruption (Gauss and Dante), Orphix (Debatable), Alchemy, Defection, Mirror Defense, Conjunction Survival, Infested Salvage, Sanctuary Onslaught and ESO, and the three void missions.

[@ravenpotter5131]

One thing I want to point out, the points brought up in the video are all valid for veteran players including myself. However I just brought two friends into the game, who would have their progression slowed down if they are locked out of the lower level slower farms. I also find running those lower missions fun again when going with friends rather than random people I can't talk to.

[@LN_P]

Gotta love 5000 credits cache in an endgame mission

[@Φλεγόμενη_Ζήλια]

stg im tired of damn credits everywhere

[@triumphoverdeath]

What endgame?

[@0Rosanna]

That literally needs to be removed from the game.

[@Denisjaguar99]

@@triumphoverdeath its a mistake, wrong word, you know endgame is fashion

[@kingaxolotl262]

Yeah lots of credits *says the guy with millions of credits already* it’s sooo helpful

[@Helloworld.11122]

the biggest issue with defence is that its too long, and you can get bs loot that many mid and late game players feel isn't worth the time, like the credit drops some game modes have is too small for steel path, when you can make that much passively in the same aount of time

[@DawnAfternoon]

Funnily enough with Xaku some Defense mission can be faster than other endless mode but without Xaku Defense Missions feel as slow as it is

[@zeeb2190]

Xaku? Not nova? ​@@DawnAfternoon

[@DawnAfternoon]

@@zeeb2190 Xaku yeah, Nova helps too

[@wisnu7846]

​@@DawnAfternoonhow? Is it the grasp of lohk build?

[@yokai1235]

defence probably would be better if was time bases instead of kill based

[@MythicalWatcher]

I appreciate the new corpus defense slander. One of my friends came back after 4 years and that was our favorite tileset. To say the least he was depressed when we loaded into the new tile

[@s_ludge]

I feel the same way, I'm glad I can enjoy the old tileset in Mirror Defense but I don't like the game mode of collecting crystals because I have terrible ADHD and its overwhelming. Skill issue, I know, but the tileset that replaced it is the getting stuck on doors and corners meme that's existed since forever only it's literally the whole map and not just narrow hallways. It's pretty and nice looking, but I hate the functionality design.

[@Demonwalkerproductio]

One thing I don't like as a point - Fissure Excavations are already nightmares if you have someone hard-on slamming in batteries into the excavators. At that point, you just don't have a single relic crack cause the excavators are done before you can get reactant.

[@dankmemes8254]

Especially low tier excavation mission you anit cracking a lilth relic

[@SimonLausch]

It would be nice if the excavators themselves gave reactant. Maybe give them some special effects or mechanics to make up for it, but that would make defense so much more important.

[@jackgamer6307]

Same goes for lower level disruption missions. You can and often do clear iut all conduits while having 4 traces total

[@techwizsmith7963]

​@@SimonLauschThat's such a solid idea, actually

[@mr.cuttystabby5331]

Excavation is a shitty game mode to begin with, what with piss poor balancing, courtesy of DE Glenn. I'd want them to rework excavs before seeing the content expanded on with any changes to relic cracks

[@gailengigabyte6221]

If mobile defense should get the chance of a rework, i think taking inspiration form the deimos vaults would be a good start. The part where we have to defend Loid and Otak while they unlock the vault genuinely felt like a mobile defense mission, instead of 3 stationary defence points.

[@justdillon5759]

right the only mobile thing about the game modes us the players

[@goshdarnchicken]

Isn't that just the Hijack game mode?

[@wynterthesplit9554]

Mirror Defense was supposed to fix the issue with Defense taking too long. Never forget how long it took us to get Citrine ;-;

[@Prettykooltbh]

ive been playing the game since before citrine came out and I was there when she was released and ive still never played mirror defense. Literally not once lol

[@robertharris6092]

​@@Prettykooltbh thats sad cause citrines one of the best framed in the game.

[@RobertoCorsini]

Citrine wasn't that bad of a grind tbh.. just getting Everything those crystals give you from Otak takes ages.

[@lookalike4805]

@RobertoCorsini Getting The Arcanes though... Is a Completey different Story....😱

[@RobertoCorsini]

@@lookalike4805 Exactly 💯

[@jacobhurst7275]

CC and the endurance running community died the moment void keys were phased out.

[@ulyssesthedm]

Yeeeup

[@Meowsamurai]

Endurance survival is still popular, except players usually run it solo or with a good squad

[@CryZii777]

​@Meowsamurai I cant get anyone to do more than 3hrs 🥲 everytime I've offered a 12hr run, I've had to go solo

[@suschilegge1683]

​@@CryZii777I mean it's not healthy to do 12hr runs, maybe only once in a while to challenge urself but after reaching lv cap it stays the same anyway. Also in solo at least you can pause it if you need a break, in a team you can't and have to rely on teammates

[@Reader999]

​@@suschilegge1683honestly, this ^^

[@Cryoxiis]

You're spot on that the value of CC has historically been influenced by the reward system of mission types. I agree a revisit of this system would help diversify the gameplay loop without devaluing the power creep of weapons that's occurred in recent years. Modern day Warframe needs game modes that incentivise things other than dishing out big damage quickly, and provides worthwhile rewards as a result of playing those modes. The power creep of weapons hasn't been the problem - it's simply highlighted the real problem - that the most valuable rewards are generally obtained from the same gameplay loop of dealing big damage quickly.

[@lookalike4805]

No... The Value of CC is more Influenced by the Mission Type than it is by whatever that mission DropS.

[@NovaUmbral]

But if said mission type isn't rewarding even though it leverages CC.... is it worth doing?

[@lookalike4805]

@NovaUmbral True.... But that was Never My Argument. The Point is Mobile Defense isn't going to Give Better Rewards or Faster Rewards if you Kill Enemies instead of CCing them even if it does mean people would Do Mobile Defense Less Often.

[@Cryoxiis]

Perhaps it's both then - we need game modes where CC makes sense as a playstyle, and there needs to be enough of a reason to play those modes.

[@lookalike4805]

@Cryoxiis Now we're Talking !!! 😍

[@Dac85]

I feel that the changes they've made to the Circuit - where you keep rewards up to the last wave you completed - should be rolled across the entire game. And then, after that, they can increase the rewards like you suggested, and lower the Defense objective HP back down - a lot. The reason I say this is that, even with rewards increased, there's really not a reason to take CC these days, even in those modes, because objectives are usually pretty beefy - you'd need to basically fully abandon most of them for them to have a chance of actually dying. You don't need to pay attention in today's Defense nodes. Note that SP Circuit WAS an exception to this, with a *frighteningly* fragile defense objective that practically necessitated locking down the location to secure its survival. You thanked your sweet Lotus when you hit that wave and had a Vauban/Khora/Frost etc. with you. But, after the buffs to the objective's HP scaling, SP Defense today feels like a freebie - like every other Defense node in the game. I feel that finding somewhere in the middle, perhaps just a bit more forgiving than the old SP situation, would be ideal. It could still feel hectic and dangerous without some control, then, but even if your objective did pop, with the other mentioned changes (and thus your previous wave rewards secured), you've at most lost a few minutes of effort instead of 15+. You make failure less painful, so that you can let players feel the threat of it more, and increase the value of diversity in your roster's capabilities. Oh, and eximus units should dampen CC effects on them, not cancel them completely. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[@lookalike4805]

I didn't read all of that so don't thank me... But that first part is Correct. Why is it that if I Do 10 Rounds and Fail on the 10th Round that now my previous 9 Successful Rounds Suddenly Don't Matter? It's Shameless Gambling at Best and Daylight Robbery at Worst. 🤔

[@atticlion7648]

Defense being reduced to 3 wave rotations like in Circuit would also be a nice bandaid fix.

[@haroldpedro726]

For eximus units, DE should make them like Demolishers. Make them susceptible to CC but they gain resistance as time goes on

[@Doku71]

Personally, Defense and Excavation, I did enjoy them in their hayday, and in current day I feel like they should get some form of addition that speeds up the excavation like collecting the void globules and depositing it into the machine, and perhaps a drone type that signals for stronger and faster enemy spawns during defense waves. Even Modile Defense, I feel this game should allow for players to interact with the machine and do the hack minigame to help speed up the progress or eliminating an enemy and bringing a module that expidites progress, doing so in turn increasing enemy density.

[@CoolKid369]

Fantastic video, I felt like your insight about rewards being an innate part of the issue was really valuable and something most other creators (myself included) completely overlooked. I don't honestly know if DE will ever enact any pro-CC changes as they currently lack any real incentive to do so, but I think videos like this do a good job of contributing to that conversation if the time ever does come for it to happen. As an aside, I feel like ESO was kind of the beginning of the end when it came to damage focused game modes, as it was the first I can think of that really pushed CC out of the question entirely. Add in damage just going up and up over time and even previously CC friendly modes like Defense have just buckled under our ability to blow up everything in seconds. Also, Ratchet and Clank music? Based, subscribing on 30 alt accounts.

[@NovaUmbral]

"Hey look Plumbers Crack!"

[@Sci-Fi_Freak_YT]

Ngl I never considered the rewards part either.

[@TheKingIzumi]

Void Armageddon definitely needs some changes, its so cool, and to make it even more cc focused I wish you could upgrade turrets so they scale with higher level enemies, the reward changes could be good too

[@SenseofNoneYT]

You know what? What if the planets all had relays with vendors that sell different stuff depending on which planet you're on, and those vendors can also act as pity systems for all the grinding? Maybe make it easier to get that one elusive vanilla Equinox part by buying it off of a vendor in a Uranus relay. Get those miter parts in a Ceres relay. Maybe even Mutagen Mass from Eris. On the side of CC, it honestly kinda hurts me that CC frames aren't even optimal in normal Defense missions. People wouldn't want to slow down enemies from coming because the missions lasts longer so CC frames are kinda unwelcome in a lot of cases. A Nova that speeds up enemies is somehow better for Defense. And I low-key think that means there's something fundamentally wrong in these "Defense" missions. It's really just stationary Exterminate.

[@lookalike4805]

Defense was always Doomed to End Up that Way because your Performance is Evaluated by the Waves of Enemies Killed Rather than the State of the Defense Objective. 👀

[@thegreendude2086]

Vendors for each planet is what also came to mind for me.

[@Leviathis_Krade]

mutagen masses can be quickly obtained doing orb vallis bounties. its one of the cycling rewards though so its not something that can be done 24/7

[@3thirtyDr3amz]

Point A - People will optimize the fun out of anything. Or don’t care to begin with. This is true, and exists. But idk, 15 minutes in public matchmaking and there isn’t any crazy shortages in basically any mode. Xini fills up as easily as the Void Marduk or Apollo. (Berehydnia also exists, and can be solo’d by Vauban turrets, go figure). Xinis new tile honestly makes interception easier then the old one, with easy straight shots for Void dashing, or if you make A the hard point forcing enemies to take a long path into a choke box. Void Capture or Disruption might be “optimal”, but repeatedly running to a red marker and doing a weapon DPS check before they escape/explode (might as well not use powers as many Capture targets are immune, and Demos are a mix of immune and nullifying) is mind numbing. If the measuring stick is simply optimal farming of relics, then might as well say Warframe are irrelevant since you can complete Void Capture with an unmodded frame and 0 Forma Braton (Disruption puts a bunch of bells and whistles yes, all totally irrelevant to what you actually do. Other then that DA mutator, which does bring CC back onto the field, at least until it combos with DE’s inability to follow their own design on that other OG-everything mutators, see Coolkids vid for that detail) Point B - Rewards. Guaranteed and Specific rewards will out perform random ones. Correlate Point - DE are the ones who electively abandoned what they said was a prototype or test run at the time for CCCCC… potentials and retroactively decided to keep it specific to Disruption (a DPS check mode) Void mission - Guaranteed Relic. Disruption- Guaranteed relic. Except for the ones that don’t. Which people don’t generally play unless farming Gauss/whatever. Apollo would be inarguably inferior to Kappa (no Nullifiers lol, or annoying front shielded bursa demos) for Axi relics except Gauss breaks the focused rewards logic. Other Endless Missions - Kind of hit and miss. Lots of silver or even not so good gold mods, endo (not terrible) and credits. Other missions- Other then Spy, most of them don’t even haven’t reward pool. Occasionally lacklustre bonus caches, or spectre blueprints for Rescues There’s obviously myriad ways to address that of course. Pity systems, only having evergreen rewards, or copying the ability to stay in a single reward pool. All of which have some implementation concerns to design stores, or relocate non evergreen rewards. Because you do need somewhere for new players to get their original copies. Another obvious one would be splitting off some specific rewards from existing pools into those missions that don’t have any. Point C - Lack of Efficiency Boosting Kill Objectives - Defense, Disruption, Alchemy, etc all speed up with kills. CC or “true” defense objectives…., do not speed up. By anything really. Survival kind of a middle ground. Both help, neither makes you more efficient though. But yes, kill based missions reward performance. Non kill based missions do not. As simple a change as having timers go 2x speed but only if the objective has active shields would immediately go a long way for Mobile Def, Mirror, Excavation. Or keeping enemies out of area (though DE has developed an obsession with the opposite for whatever reason) Interception is the only one that sort of does this, but only by a half step. You can have 50 enemies on the point as long as you shoot whichever 1-2 dudes are on the terminal In hybrid missions, or strategy. Kills often complete the victory condition, while CC (and tanking) avoids the failure state. Warframe is so ludicrously easy that the latter often falls by the wayside. A combination of power creep, forcibly bowing to solo player demand (remember Railjack got “dumbed down”, twice. Once before even release.), and an unfortunate but backed up by dev quotes criticism that they can’t seem to handle balancing in a non-binary non-reductive manner. That said, I wouldn’t say CC is “dead” in stuff like Defense/Survival. If, and this is a huge if when we take the broader playerbase, your squad is hyper optimized skilled endgame players, then yes. The DPS will largely outperform. In the probably 90% PUG squadding, that is a drastically lower certainty. Even less so if you aren’t chasing speed laps in the fastest easiest farm possible and deliberately engage in stuff like SP fissures.

[@cavemanpretzel9520]

Interception could be made more meaningful by having each intercept also reward "transmission fragments" which could be exchanged at a vendor for resources and one puchase per week things like a forma bp or exilus adapter bp(vendor could be suda, simaris, or some other new vendor). And have the number of fragments dropped have some sort of scaling so later star chart intercepts have more fragment drops or something and youd have a decent way to accomate new players and more late game players.

[@Smallets-n6i]

All I can tell about CC. Steel path Interception...

[@jr9529]

Steel path interception is... Hell. I'm in hell whenever I try it XD

[@Smallets-n6i]

@@jr9529 would not be so bad if at least team if two played it. But because no one plays it no one plays it... Actually it is hard to find teammates in steel path at all

[@Smallets-n6i]

As a harrow main I am something of cc player myself

[@jr9529]

@@Smallets-n6i that is something I've noticed. I've never been able to have a team on regular s.p. missions to clear the star chart. Only special events like incursions or archon hunts

[@jr9529]

@@Smallets-n6i see I'm a gauss main so.... XD

[@Kannibole]

Void Armageddon sucks, the fact that dudes spawn after the next one activates and youre already on your way is just stupid, and on SP they pretty much get three shot or less.

[@jackdeviluke3969]

Mainly the playerbases fault for crutching nuke builds so hard and also the devs fault for overbuffing enemies in some content while not allowing crowd control to have a niche

[@TPCvsJDU]

Defense is my favorite mission type but I will settle for survival since that's a lil more popular 😢

[@Maverick2736]

While you're right, I'd say the playerbase growing so addicted to nuke builds is also DE's fault, because of how difficulty curve is *_entirely beaten_* by simply getting stronger equipment with stronger mods, compounded by how trying to take unranked and/or powercrept equipment to higher level missions leads you to into a hard brick wall of zero damage, which feels especially horrendous in a horde shooter like Warframe. All of that *_teaches_* players that meta is king. If the enemies in Warframe, instead, were programmed like the enemies in... say, the Xbox-era Ninja Gaiden games--enemies that are difficult not because of level and stat numbers, but rather because of their movement patterns and dangerous movesets with telegraphs that can be learned around and beaten by the player's toolkit--we'd have a much different way of growing the playerbase around the difficulty curve, because there would be a bigger emphasis on player skill and reflexes over damage numbers, instead of the other way around like we have in Warframe. Another example is Tera: that old MMORPG had a myriad issues and is dead for a reason, but one of the biggest points of appraisal that old game used to get was its combat system that let players easily beat enemies multiple stratospheric dozens of levels higher than the player (something generally unheard of in other MMORPGS like Warcraft in which trying to fight anything close to 10 levels higher than you is a guaranteed instant death) by simple virtue of letting players dodge and parry around the enemy's telegraphed attacks, while keeping player damage always just high enough for the fight to actually be beatable in a satisfying amount of time that doesn't feel like it takes forever.

[@thegreendude2086]

​@@Maverick2736Absolutely,I'd love that. I have the impression that they have tried making enemies that need more skills. For example a therapy flying through the air is a hard pattern to shoot at but it is a pattern that can be learned. Doesn't make a difference though when I can't damage it.

[@sosa8549]

Yea blame the players because the game is easy asf and I mean EASY. My half assed builds since MR 10ish have cooked SP easily. It's 100% on DE for power creeping the game to hell. I had a harder time playing WF when arbi was considered endgame. The game has only gotten easier and easier over the years and I realized that from starting over.

[@jackdeviluke3969]

@@sosa8549 nice bud but its on both because some of the brain dead response de did was in response to people like you using busted builds

[@yamnbam4346]

Anyone else saw this video coming when Nova made those community posts a while back? I realized the modes he kept asking about were more cc friendly than others.

[@Twinkletoastable]

I played 1400 hours of Warframe from 2013-2015. I remember when the tipedo was nerfed. We used to ride that bad boy for miles! Unlocking CC and building around it was the key to get higher and higher in Survival/Defence, meaning better rewards. Every time slot had orokin rewards! It's a shame to see CC get gutted so bad. Frost Prime with a small but strong bubble and max duration with Loki dropping weapons to have your Ember and Excalibur doing huge AOE damage (before their reworks, when you could have infinite uptime with max damage on Embers World on Fire. This only worked because of Loki dropping weapons, or if you didn't have a loki, you could have a max range ember with energy reduction spamming accelerant. Thank you for the video!

[@spencerowen7614]

Cryotic to rare resource shop (Tellurium, Argon Crystals, etc.) would be a huge W

[@uhhmary]

I actually really like the idea of defense mods giving more geared to the midgame player style rewards like endo packs and built formas, really would help bridge the gap between getting credit caches and getting kuva nicely

[@AnymMusic]

I was SO sad that when DE started talking about neglected status effects, they just completely omitted CC. Like yeah cool, blast will be more blasty, but with the armor changes and easier strip, it just puts even more fcking focus on DPS. I wanna be able to at least somewhat use my kit without a Saryn immediately wiping the entire universe with a cast of 4 🥲. Like, DE, you want us to actually play the game and not create a boring braindead playstyle but.... THAT IS WHAT THIS DPS META IS!

[@Tarudizer]

I love how many videos Ive recently seen on this topic, hoping that opens DE's eyes to the problem a bit

[@noahboddie3482]

Im glad you're talking about it from this angle, i recently started using qorvex in mirror defense and its actually so fun, but he's not always as effective everywhere and im starting to realize what frame mission compatibility feels like

[@fluffdafire157]

I still run interceptions for void relics with my homies as it lets us relax and just vibe

[@lordrefrigeratorintercoole288]

I wish DE would add the void Keys back, as an addition to relics. Like void only and the rewards are completely random, you could get like anything that was primed before.

[@sleihbeggey1992]

Ehh they’ve shown that they can make modes were CC is useful. Alchemy does require kills to drop amphores but the drop rate is plenty high and the enemy spawn rate is basically maxed. You need to add the amphores as fast as they drop to do the mission quickly and that’s time you’re not DPSing. There is value in having CC so your runner(s) can focus on progressing the alchemy objective. They just need more objectives in missions that aren’t solely tied to killing enemies as fast as possible to get your reward

[@Apprentice_of_Epitaph]

The eximus changes damaged a lot frames because if your whole kit is cc and you cant controll anything this just lets you put some frames to rest

[@Sci-Fi_Freak_YT]

Not exactly because even Limbo is fine because you can still rift eximus units and stop their bullets from attacking things (which is the primary threat since abilities from them are easy to dodge in general). The real problem I feel is that most cc powers don’t feel good/ rewarding to use in a mission unless it’s a cc focused mode or playing solo due to damage being a bit overtuned.

[@Noxims47314]

Eximus are still a work in progress... overguard still isn't hammered out. and feels undefined with where the concept is going. they're supposed to be difficult. but the mechanics that come with them are still a little skewed. some of them are definitely better in execution then others. and some are pure bs that most players can't seem to outpace or understand in the span of time between them fighting the thing and dying to it. toxin and arson being the ones i'm referring to. as ever... things aren't defined to stay as they are. but some abilities on older frames should really get a modernising treatment that comes along with keeping up with such new enemies.

[@randomthoughtinstantiator]

Mobile Defense needs to let you get multiple datamasses so you can activate multiple consoles. And it should have optional hidden consoles that grant special loot. Excavation should give you more loot the more power cells you supply to the excavators. Interception should have much higher enemy density so it can double as an affinity farm. It should also have floating nodes that orbit the map, and increased loot to compensate for the increase in difficulty. Finally, Overgaurd should be Damage Resistance + Damage Boost, not CC immunity. There’s no shortage of damage in the game. CC immunity is what the Nullifier Crewmen were for. When an Overguard enemy spawns, players should think: “Glad we have a CC teammate!”

[@screaminseaman6121]

Feel like each excavation should drop 2 or 3 reactant on competition too. Cant tell you the number I've times I've finished missions with 4 reactant because no more was spawning.

[@olivierdols5556]

for excavation you should be able to overcharge your excavator by giving it more power cells

[@Sveerlax]

Been playing Warframe since 2015 and I can't agree more. All I see now in 2024 is constant nuke builds and it has totally taken the fun out of the game for me. I miss having an actual difficult mission, everything now is way too easy and makes the game boring now.

[@lookalike4805]

There's no Such thing as "Difficult" in Warframe... You're Remember things Wrong 😳

[@reksraven]

@@lookalike4805 there was always cheese in warframe and op builds that trivialized the game, but wf had the potential to have a good skill ceiling. And and they nuked all potential for that. Pun somewhat intended.

[@TopHater29974]

Defense should be every 3 rounds per rotation

[@junktin1750]

5:00 THE GASPAR MUSIC DUDE I LOVE THIS

[@novaprime2297]

I think the thing that drives home your point the most here nova, is the fact that defense missions is the literal worst mission type for almost all farms, the ironically one of the few times where nova’s “cc” with 10% strength is invaluable

[@Noxims47314]

I love doing most arbs, I'm weird that way... what I don't like is knowing that if its an excavation that shows up, no-one will stick around or even participate because those excavators just can't survive the amount of bs thrown in their way. everyone ran around like headless chickens trying to murder immunized npcs that had their arb-drone with them, and I have to jump in with a weapon that has enough damage and fire-rate to get the thing to be removed... its the weirdest experience being with people who have an 18 to 23 to even higher mastery rate and still seeing them just not understanding what we're supposed to do to succeed.

[@hartantoanggoro]

Used to have my clanmates farming a lot of Carbides at Ceres and Cubic Diodes at Europa in defense mission because the resources only dropped in that mission. Needed a ton of them and actually it's bothersome while nice enough to spend times with friends rather than waiting for Railjack mission availability 6 months later. Then DE cut the cost of those 2 resources in half which refunds the effort my friends and I did to build Railjack and again near the release of The New War while revamping the Eximus units to drop those 2 resources, I guess the fun in Defense mission is over.

[@derpmorederp1417]

I'd like to point out that eximus fortress in sorties especially interception, can payout 6 digits, up to 500k credits easily with no booster. This blows both the index and veil railjack out of the water. You can finish the sortie and farm it to your hearts content.

[@alcrye6002]

babe wake up novaumbral posted another wf video!!!

[@derekspringer6448]

Thanks dude bro, got your notification. Just woke up. Love you bromosexual.

[@Sajukhar]

Despite being a Voruna main, I'd indeed like to see CC being more heavily utilized. I primarily use Breach Surge for its Blind and rad prod to confuse more so then damage multiplier, along side a robo-doggo that is CC focused with manifold bond with cold gas rad (With forced electric pocs from its electric ball thingy ability) to control a room and prime her number 3. I rely on her stealth and CC ability to remain alive and the boost in her damage is secondary. As much as i like seeing Big funni numbers there's something satisfying for me personally to control a room.

[@thedango6890]

The best cc is to ragdoll the mobs as fast and as much as you can. Thry literally cant fight you while being ragdolled😂

[@lookalike4805]

They Can't do that while they are Dead either... The Difference is some enemies can't be Ragdolled while All Enemies can be Dead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@TimesOldRoman]

One thing that I feel should be a part of CC-based missions is some "speed up" mechanic, like in Deep Archimedia mirror defense. (Kill a necramech to drop 45 seconds of defense) You mentioned something like that going about mobile defense, and I feel that helps a bit, because you aren't simply waiting and are rewarded for having a proper defense going, good enough, that you may be able to take up other tasks. Now again, loot is a giant problem and needs to be looked at as well, because no matter how fast it goes - if it isn't that relevant - then what's the point.

[@ednotari1345]

Well, maybe if there'd be a new currency gained from doing CC focused modes in general maybe have Darvo either be the vendor or associated with him. So there's reasons to actually bother going to his shop. Maybe have something for some of modes where there's in mission modifiers that can be turned on. Like, normally there's very few Eximus units for a defense and then turning on a modifier adds a bunch and does something like doubles the reward or something. Or double the reward for getting something akin to a demolisher or mini boss showing up for a rotation. Maybe a modifier so Defense and Void Armageddon can also grant Cryotic so they're more tempting.

[@alfonsobenitez1269]

We will probably see more and newer eximus before we see crowd control looked over

[@lookalike4805]

Finally.... Someone who Understands how Operates. ♥️

[@derpmorederp1417]

Jade eximus units

[@deadsorceress]

About mechanic creep, the last week EDA had survival, on which you could get a lot of air support from killing necramechs, and also you could summon one by yourself, which on kill lowers timer, and whole survival at this point turned from afk kill everything you see mode to the mode, where you need run around the map and kill big guys when they are spawn, and I think is good idead to use this system to speed up defensive missions and make them more interesting play. In my opinion core problem of CC missions that this is unrewarding way to play, not in terms of loot or something, but in terms of skill expression, you drop your cc abilities and that's all, now you can just sit and wait for the timer, no way you can spped up the mission or do like l iterally anything that changes outcome of the mission, so I think i'd be cool if they add big chonky guy that you can summon on mobile defense mission or interception, that on kill will speed up the mission, and spawn him far from the object of the mission like on disruption, so you could just wait before he comes, or you can find him, but to defend object while you are away you should use cc abilities or something like that.

[@reksraven]

That sounds amazing. Warframe's big issue is that they don't have a lot of high priority targets. Nullifyers are still the only ones that kinda disrupt normal gameplay. Most eximus die so fast that they aren't really worth thinking about. And other attempts at high priority targets like nox and the like also suffer similar issues. Having a big chonker that not only requires some amount of skill to take down fast but also gives you a benefit for taking down is great.

[@liamspruyt]

i want CC back, but i mean it takes 20 minutes to get in survival, but even longer in defence. excavation is still decent i think but the defence is the main issue. they should do it like the other one and make it 3 waves each round. also i would solve cc to give us soft CC and hard CC, black hole, hard CC, lighting pellets from vauban, low CC. screaming in someone face with valkyr soft CC. and so fourth. it would make some CC frames which get countered by overguard more useful. so more god of destruction travelling other realms be thwarted by random butcher with flame suit on!

[@reksraven]

I was also thinking it would be better if Overguard impacts both CC and Damage but doesn't negate them completely. Something else they could do (but would just give CC a dmage meta of its own I guess) Is give all CC abilities Overguard damage. And make overguard immune or highly resistant to normal damaging abilities. This way CC would be incredibly useful while not immediatly invalidating Overguarded enemies. Another way would be to rework CC's in a way that they affect Overguard to a lesser extent. Instead of being stopped by Limbo stasis or completely ignoring it they should make it so Stasis slows enemies. Slova should only be able to slow eximus for a fraction. Instead of being sucked up by vauban the overguarded enemies get staggered. Stuff like this.

[@liamspruyt]

@@reksraven also interesting options!

[@ethangnasher3848]

Defense should have something like challenge mods, every 5 rounds a row of challenges available will show up which have variable numbers of stuff it can reward when completed, people can choose 1 to make up a total of 4 mild rewards or the 4 choose 1 to have the full reward of that challenge at the cost of being extra hard, but proportionately so.

[@Male_Parent]

7:02 I completely agree here. I'm just not a fan of how vertical and spacious the new tile set is (for defense and interception, the rest are awesome). I basically just played them for steel path completion and never played them again. I would also like to see reward pools going AABCCCC... That's one of the main reasons people like me even run disruption for farming relics, you can spam rotation C rewards. There's little incentive to staying longer than a rotation C (unless it's void fissures which you at least get the extra boosters and upgraded relics). Maybe not repeating rotation C's for all mission types, but at least some of them.

[@Ant-i-Freeze]

CC died when afk auto play became an issue even thought its specific to certain region more than others, still suffer rest. And as you said defense mission is more like hunt enemies down before they get the chance to attack objective, and hope while you aways 1 tap doesnt happen.

[@s_ludge]

For the longest time in earlier years of playing WF (like, pre 2019) I thought that Defense, Survival, Excavation, all repeated C rewards after the typical 20. 20 minutes, 20 waves, 20 Excavators, you get the idea. I understood going to 20 for the first C rotation then restarting was the most efficient for most players as you deal with lower level enemies, making the farming more chill. Yet I always wanted to go past 20 and the first C, not because im into endurance runs, I just thought marginal increase in enemy levels for the next few 5 would be worth it because the same builds that gets you to 20 can last till 30 or 40, maybe even 60. Why keep resetting for A and B rewards? Those were my thoughts at the time. And while it wasn't the point of the video, considering updating older modes that were designed with CC in mind (which I miss) I think a clearer understanding for how those rewards roll would also be great. Either Codex or on the mission node hover like they plan on with the weakness rework, put the rotation code on there too. AABABC or whatever it might be. Adding to that, the top comment is a joke about 5k credits rewarding for endgame. I think that itself proves your points, which I wholly agree with. As you said, DE is busy, but part of why I've quit so much and haven't played in a long while it's because of what you and others have brought up. I loved CC, I dislike the pure damage nuke meta, but what has me not playing is being funneled into repeating the same missions for a chance at a super specific reward. We have 2 whole Starcharts (including Railjack), third if they ever introduce the Tau system. Spread it out!

[@Zhantzher]

About Mirror Defense, didn't Rebbeca said it was an experiment and it has concluded, so they won't bring any more MIrror Defense nodes?

[@darkumineru1681]

the CC problem is amp up by CC being free for any frame to get is massive ranges and effect from endless lullaby with baruuk subsume or condem from harrow so if cc ever is good mesa can slap it on her saryn can slap it on her and so on

[@lookalike4805]

Why Would they Do That ? 🤔

[@xXSonyKilerXx]

I really love the new endless gamemodes as far as disruption (ofc the OG ones too), I wish that endless bounties were a thing where I could go void cascade for example and get a new bounty reward after each round and not just the first round. I feel like the majority do not stay for long runs because said missions do not refresh the bounty reward on subsequent rounds. Another example is farming disruption for Dante but make it so every round I'll get a new bounty and not just the first one.

[@jackgamer6307]

Defense has to be the most boring, painfully dragged out mission. You can't progress untill you kill every single enemy on the huge tile full of small rooms the AI loves to get stuck in, without any timer. It can drag on for agonizing minutes per wave, and even the "gameplay" portion consists of running circles around the objective shooting a few enemies at a time. Defense doesn't have the enemy density of other endless missions, not to mention the tile variation. You *WILL* get bored of the same tile after 15 minutes. And unlike every other gamemode, you can't move to somewhere else

[@thegreendude2086]

After the poll I have decided to try out disruption again, everyone said it got a lot of love and people enjoy it. I just needed some somatic fibers to build voruna, I dont actually care what disruption rewards you with (I also dont have the time to farm prime stuff and therefore dont care about relics). Yes, the mission was way more approachable and finding the demolist was better, but honestly I found myself very bored. Run here, kill, put in, run there, kill and so forth. I was playing solo btw, in a group Ill probably wont get to participate as everything just explodes around me. This made me question if I generally dislike the damage meta focused content. I have been farming in the Zariman before and 2 things come to mind. Void flood is fun because I get to use the space ninja movement. Void cascade has to some extent CC, but isnt required (Killing the enemies in the bubble finishes the thing faster). DE delievers a lot of quality for free and I am willing to overlook the majority of missteps, but man there is so much fundamentally that I miss about the old gameplay. CC is fun, ragdolling enemies is fun, Melee combos are fun, most melee weapons feel like slob now, the only difference is the look or if it has a range mechanic. Im totally fine with defense not being engaging, Im just trying to relax and maybe hangout with my buddies, void cascade is stressful in comparison. The great thing is that the options are there to play old content, but as you said you aren't getting good rewards out of it. Im kinda fine with that, but I wish they would retouch those things. It really does feel like the gameplay side has been going downhill since the kuva brahma while the story and art has been going uphill.

[@reksraven]

The damage meta is fine, until it invalidates all other playstyles. I mirror the feeling that I don't enjoy pubs. i usually play solo or in a duo with my SO. Because why play support if everything is dead? Why play CC if everything is dead already? No reason really. And there are some unique synergies that can arise if the game wouldn't make everything solo firendly. Koumei and Nezha have a really fun synergie that is also really good. I want that for more frames in this game.

[@thegreendude2086]

@@reksraven I agree with that. Since im mostly playing solo these days, I obviously appreciate being able to do it alone but the game is fun when you come up with a tactic together and actually play together.

[@nev546]

man I'm boutta drop my own rant at this rate it's just a straight up trend lmfao

[@Zwidu621]

Game speed up and im happy of it, got bored same slow mission like 7 - 8 y ago. Btw. in EDA CC works great, for me it's enough, but I understand that there are people who want to use it more often.

[@IplayTeemoasaWard]

While this video is mostly about CC, I definitely agree 100% on every gamemode critique offered in this video. I think when they released Steel Path I thought for the first time: "Damn, I dont wanna continue any of these planets because all the remaining nodes have incredily annoying gamemodes. Since then its been very up and down with new gamemodes, Defection, Citrine game modes, the void one with turrets (holy shit its so slow) and as other people mentioned Relic Excavation that you have to do very carefully, unless you wanna walk out with 0 Relics opened. Over the years our toys have become better, more fun, more efficient, more stylish and TBH Its been fun. But the playgrounds we use them on still are incredibly hit or miss and IMO its one of the biggest things that keeps me from endlessly enjoying the game. (Except the circuit, that shit was the bomb!)

[@Legendaryrobot64]

Might just be me, but I feel like CC being dead is not that big of a deal these days, speaking as someone who used to despise overguard making CC even more irrelevant. Warframe evolved into a different game and it's ok. You could say the game prob lost a bit of its identity along the way and it became more like every other looter shooter but... looter shooters are great. For me, current Warframe is like a more mobbing focused live service Borderlands game with mechanics from all of them and more playable characters than all Borderlands games combined. Which is awesome, because Warframe has more variety and MUCH better writing Still, I definitely agree with bringing older, slower game modes up to pace and improving rewards would make a massive difference. Other than making defend type missions duration based so CC has relevancy, imo they should also give them a significant buff in rotation rewards. Just doubling what's already there, or changing how rotations work won't be enough. We should also get guaranteed resources of all types from the planet the mission node is on. AND they need to be big chunks of resources, at minimum on par with doing an SP survival for 5min with a booster. With helminth being a massive resource sink I think giving out resources would be pretty useful regardless of where you are in the game. It would help encourage CC as well because the resources you get at the end of a round would be enough to make up for the reduced amount from killing enemies and overall slower rotations

[@torunsmok5890]

From my experience the change for excavation would make fissure excavation worthless, since as it is I already regularly get idiot teammates who rush excavators and kill enemies before they corrupt so we don't get enough reactant to Crack relics before a round ends

[@NovaUmbral]

They can always buff the drop of reactant (they did this with cascade, its quite weird how Excavation was forgotten in that regard

[@lookalike4805]

@NovaUmbral A better Solution would be to tie Relic Cracking to Actually Mission Objectives so that it becomes Mandatory. DE create Reactant to slow Reward Cycles so there's no Way in Hell they are going to Buff it's Drop Rate unless it Doesn't Matter (Like in Survival... You're locked into a 5 Minute Cycle Regardless of when you Crack your Relic).

[@Sci-Fi_Freak_YT]

I think it’s less so CC is bad to use because it really isn’t, I mean I wouldn’t be maining Limbo if i didn’t find him fun/ engaging. But it’s more so like you said it isn’t engaging and rewarding enough to run CC or CC focused missions if you’re going strictly for the loot. Which is the sad part because I don’t want these kinds of tactics to be removed/ neglected. Because it is a Sandbox and I can understand that some tactics can be better than others but you shouldn’t make 1 method MILES better than another.

[@vidyastuff3509]

How to fix most mission types: Make every wave a 5 minute timer by default, enemies spawn endlessly with small breaks between waves. Get rid of the "kill all the straglers" part from interception and the like. Killing enemies reduces the timer up to 2 minutes per wave total with sufficient kpm. Apply this also to mobile defense, interception, etc. Reduce the number of waves for reward cycles by 30% pretty much across the board. You now have a mode that rewards fast killing but having CC doesn't make it take an eternity. Make rotations for ALL modes be A, B, C, C.

[@kingkobra4910]

Cutting loot intervals in half would help endurance runs, lot of dead air in defense or survivals

[@UNGGodYT]

Indeed. with power creep and the introduction of KPS competition, CC aka slowing the flow become undesired, so far the only places where it is desirable is interception and excavation, more when it is a high level like archon, so far the only solution i can think is to change how CC is done completely, which will piss of CC frames or make specific mission where keeping enemies alive or requiring CC to be able to do massive damage , but those would need to be on par with disruption or people would not do those missions. Btw , no one talks about spy anymore, worst mission atm, bureaucratic, slow if you want to be stealthy and rewards are minimal, only deflection is worse afaik.

[@xero9082]

My friend i can tell you listen to funk and i love you also yes with the new updates such as netracells we love rewards all together rather then going through a rotation constantly only to get 1 part espesially for warframes but relics to are a exception but its been the same for years the only 1 you can get alot of relics on is survivals or defense and id rather wait 5 mins then 5 waves to get my rewards but yeah relics also need a improvement on their gamemode

[@amolistic_]

The problem with Crowd Control taking a backseat and lean more into a supportive role is also due to the fact that the game is too easy to the point that you can do whatever you want to. it has become one of the worst designed gameplay system in history of game design and it cascades into utterly boring gameplay of brainless sheets. Compared to its competitors, it just sucks, the gameplay, the mechanics just didn't exist, since its a horde shooter, dmg is gonna be good but this is like league of legends where instead of either you oneshot, or you get oneshotted, the dmg is literally overflowing and barely any meaningful mechanics is solving that, not only this turns the game into a boring, uninspired loop that many called it nothing but wasted potential, it feels so bad to play and just lost that kind of spark that is their slogan: ninjas play free, emphasizing on ninjas btw. its genuinely sad that the game simply has no variety, no fun, no, nothing. Even damage gets boring now. This is just how bad it is. Modding versatility is not important when even a person that knows nothing can thrive regardless. Understanding mechanics is not important either when the game is just that easy. Everything is easy, this SHOULD BE a 18+ game, not something that is for toddlers.

[@eliaspanayi3465]

Power creep

[@Smallets-n6i]

Tell me about it. I just run corpus steel path mission with antigrinear setup and did not even notice the difference. What we need is high difficulty and risk = high reward. Kind of how all games do lol. This deep arhemidia or what ever it is called. Mater of time when people will speedrun it. I remember how eidolons were presented. A boss to fight by full squad. Now one vold with 30+mr solos it while 5mr dude, (that for some reason just started with the game) stands and watches at this madness

[@GreetYourMind]

Here is a solution. Faction related Crowd Control. Robotics have no eyes and shouldn't be able to be blinded however they should be sleep when they're guns are Jammed like an emp this type of CC would bypass over guard

[@princehusky2280]

BRO YOU JUST CALLED OUT DRACO AGAIN, what a time to be alive 😭

[@derpmorederp1417]

The only modes I can actually enjoy is void flood and Tyana Pass. I only do excav fissures for ducats.

[@gothfalcon]

I think that it would be better if defense ran as AABBCCCCCC... so that it has a ramp up and investment, but then there's a return on that investment after a bit, similar to disruption. Endless missions should reward the endless part more and reward the early investment some less. It would also be nice for the defense missions where you cycle between objectives to be separate instead of a random chance at certain nodes, then you could make them into an endless version of mobile defense where you defend each point for a time instead of a wave of enemies, then have to go unlock the next spot, but it can still stay endless with maybe 3 waves per reward to match mobile defense

[@lookalike4805]

All that does is Solve People Playing Defense Less... The Mode is Still Evaluated By number of Enemies Killed hence it doesn't Help Crowd Control.... All it does is Bring those Sweat Disruption Nerds to Try Defense for Faster Rewards.

[@steampunkheart6530]

I like the points you addressed here, but you did miss a BIG factor of why Void Cascade and Disruption are popular: level cap. They scale FAST, and fighting enemies stronger than most will ever see = bragging rights and/or views. People who play for level cap won't bother on a node that doesn't scale, survival is a good example of this. Worse still, if defense, excavation, etc did in fact scale well, the objective would be gone in seconds. If there's going to be a fix for these mission types, they need a fundamental change from the ground up, or they'll still be ignored, regardless of how fun they can be at low levels.

[@pandgames3982]

Crazy stuff right there

[@dictatorceround5846]

As a late game player I actively avoid mods like mobile defense and void armageddon especially the former because you gotta do so much for a chance at good rewards and a quill from the angels is pathetic

[@Tricsterfull]

First - thanks for the highlight) Second - you have some good points about loot distribution. But it is still doesn't fix a main problem with normal Defence. This mode is annoying as hell. And the reason is stupid AI. If Defence used timer instead of killing all enemies on the map - it would be sooo much better. Because it is always some mob stuck in the corner of the map and you need to go and kill it. Simple timer solves this problem. The Mirror Defence using this method and it is working!

[@ciaranhenderson9464]

Lethal league music spotted

[@Valdyr_Hrafn]

People need to stop saying "CC is dead". Its not always the best option, and in some cases its made obsolete, but its nothing a few tweaks can't fix.

[@thelastgekko]

We kinda just need to accept there's a wide margin between types of players in Warframe. As I progress through the ranks (MR17) in 3 months, I constantly am learning as well as understanding more interactions within the game. Most people are just not learning these interactions and not incentivized to learn. I definitely agree with your idea of rebalancing loot. I would even go to say rebalance older missions by letting you gain standing for open worlds by doing steel path missions on respective planets

[@MrShawn1190]

The new corpus tiles still suck. The only way CC will come back is if they force players to do so.

[@marsinaresvt]

Crowd control? In MY warframe game?! Unheard of

[@MoonChild8189]

I think defense should be changed not to be permanent c after 20 waves instead after wave 20 it should become BBC but you also always get an a roll. Then after 40 it's cccc with an extra a and b roll.

[@noahedenborg4221]

i like that also blade and whip thats an anchor

[@espwonder5135]

2:29 Me too man, me too.

[@kuruhona7903]

Valkyr waiting room…

[@francobuzzetti9424]

and we seem to be getting 10x less armor in units overall in the next patches! de needs to start removing sht from the game, i have about 10-20 things that should be either removed or reduced by 50-75% and the game would be 10x better but they're really controversial for the wf players i believe I'll just say a few: most acolyte arcanes, shield gate, adaptation, overguard, prime sure footed, self stagger(back to self dmg) i already hear the big number edgelords saying "but my dmg" i know but enemies are becomeing less tanky while dealing more damage these days, you die in 1 hit even with 99.99% DR(serious realistic number btw let that sink in ) making you rely on I-frames or gimmicks , healing is dead specialy tap heals like triny you're either full hp or dead , no time for healing rant over

[@wellplayedninjas]

not even cc get's the 2 day notice

[@AK-mf7fw]

14:00 new mods with cc effects included

[@M3l_0N666]

I cant help but feel work load is increasing and rewards are not worth the time put in. I get the idea is a whole lot of lip service to have people stick around playing for however long. And now i hear theyre putting and end to enless event farms to prevent burnout. Like thanx DE, people hammer shit because the rewards are crap. And now you want to slam on the breaks, now it means people have to grind that much longer to progress the same amount. Again just make fking drops better. Less work, worthwhile rewards means happy players.

[@Ardygun]

Ugh I HATE interception missions with a passion. They take way too long and are not fun. Especially solo

[@francescogugliotta5427]

I think people are exaggerating. CC isn't dead, just less effective... but because of overguarded enemies. With the overguard removed, enemies are once again vulnerable to CC. I (mastery rank legendary 2) always and only bring warframes from CC in defense, mobile defense, excavation, mirror defense missions... and I feel great. I know that a player does not make a community, but for me the CC is not dead. There are only 3 or 4 modes that have more enemies with overguard than those without, and I can understand that CC is useless there. But in all the other missions? It's still good, not OP like before, but good.

[@lookalike4805]

I'm MR 5 .... CC is Dead... You just haven't Realised it Yet. 👀

[@novaprime2297]

Also I really love mobile defense, but unless there’s a bunch of shit mission types they are pointless to to in fissures

[@el8779]

The only defense which is worth doing is io where u can do 10 rounds in 5 min and maybe helene otherelse the rest arent worth doing

[@ShadeColdfang]

i lost fun in Warframe after they reworked Eximus to be more annoying and OVERGUARD. Also they made Eximus too common... making playing survival or anything end game or long runs a throw of the dice to not get nuked by 100s of Eximus swarming you with their Magnetic, life steal, Poison and more effects. Overguard should not protect eximus from CC... this ruins viability and fun of many Warframes that build on CC... cuz in later runs... u simply can't use em anymore.

[@TheFIRELORD15]

pls put corrupted holokeys as rare drops in defence. anything but solo'ing railjack my livia has been at 50 for too long

[@NovaUmbral]

This is a pretty neat idea, or at least have them in corpus defense, considering Corpus Defense isn't as popular as grineer

[@TheFIRELORD15]

@@NovaUmbral its very similar to what you suggested too. it'd be giving you a currency to spend in the relay and would make those tenet weapons more accessible, i do agree with the corpus specifically, i was going to say that but i wasn't sure if that was *too* specific

[@nicktheninja3166]

Can we please fix some nightmare missions. I'm still faming ham,earshot, sure rescue, capture and stuff is fine on rocky planets. Also OK with mobile defense and survival, who thought it was a good idea to have two waves of interception (solo, most of the time, because, of course, farms nighmare interception?)10 waves of defense, and the worse offender, 5 freaking drills for exivation. Gift of the lotus this week was a joke, 8 drills for some cosmetics, I would of told her to go f*ck herself, keep the trash, if my friends didn't want to do it. 10 mims survival for an umbra forma on killing steel path acolytes, nice. 8 drills for some cosmetics I will never use, GTFO.

[@oldmanrae2061]

Interception just needs to be removed. Period

[@Joogoo96]

>1 hour video on Valkyr YES YES YES FUCK YES!

[@Catzillator]

eliminating if fater and more rewarding XD when killing is too effective why CC///

[@BL4CKIUNG]

GAUSS