The Definitive Freewing Gripen Review - 2.5 Years Later

[@steelrainfpv3383]

While MotionRc finally did right by you, I really think it's because you're a well known KZbinr now that can affect their sales with a negative opinion. I only say that because I just saw a guy get his warranty claim denied on a front gear door to the new B25 Mitchell, when he could prove it was a manufacturing defect from lack of proper adhesive to the attachment point.

[@TwoBrosRC]

This is why we mentioned "Not everyone will have a call with Motion's CEO." Jon specifically asked for several customer service improvements prior to feeling comfortable with recommending the company again. We won't work with or promote any company that we don't feel is up to our personal standards - because we need to be able to speak without feeling gagged. It may take some time for changes to take effect - if nothing changes in the future, we'll revisit our recommendations and opinions for sure. Don't hesitate to call this out.

[@Airguardian]

BRUH. 800 flights on a model aircraft is no small feet. Mad respect! This video was outstanding and so was the flying, big congrats! If I may add my grain of sand though, regarding your remarks on how to improve the jet, there's not much that can be done about the battery compartment to shift the batt further aft, but what CAN be done with much the same effect is redesign the duct to make the EDF sit further aft, as well as reposition the nose LG to have it retract forward instead of backwards. This places the retract mechanism further aft, shifting the CG as well. The light has to be sacrificed to achieve it, but a solution would be to make a gear door that opened like the full scale jet, and install the light on that door, as it is meant to be ;) Other than that, this thing should have had full span elevons from the get go, and while we are at it, the gear doors could use more robust hinges and a better closing mechanism. Mine is constantly messing up leaving doors open or failing to completely shut them close. :'(

[@TwoBrosRC]

The motor being much further back would be a significant improvement overall. There's just a whole host of things they could do to fix this jet and it's kind of a shame that it's still in the original nose heavy config.

[@Airguardian]

@@TwoBrosRC Aye

[@ModelAV8RChannel]

Jon that was impressive! I look forward to seeing you hover it later...

[@TwoBrosRC]

Prepare to be disappointed because it's a heavy jet and probably won't have the thrust to weight ratio needed, but we'll give it a shot!

[@IceMan2035]

The Gripen is still a good plane just an older model but upgrading would help it out. Maybe another paint job with some different decals. Yeah like you said Thrust Vectoring would sever this plane well. Some people just don't just like Motion but my experiences have all been good. Glad you're back flying it.❤

[@marcovandevelde]

Thanks for another inspiring review! I have the Gripen with an X45 turbine which not only makes it much more powerful but also gives the desired tail heavyness. It has a lot of fans at the club as it is super maneuverable (even without TV) and makes crazy high alpha passes then powering out vertically.

[@erikshute7153]

Nice Flying Jon! Awesome content the way you mod stuff up is wicked!

[@ArthurRC]

Glad you’re now in good terms with MRC 😇😘

[@mistermac7487]

Spent a long time painting and fixing mine. A trick I did was cut the square battery cutouts in the foam to push the battery further aft. I’ve kept the weight down and achieved neutral CG and it flies awesome!!! No VT for me though wanna keep it scale.

[@TwoBrosRC]

Gripen was originally intended to have TV. Might as well add it - the jet flies much better with it installed!

[@neilhands1708]

Finally got mine in the air after Motion RC replaced the faulty ESC. It flies really well, but I agree with the battery placement comments in this video, anything larger than 4500 mah just makes it too nose heavy, even with thrust vectoring unit installed. That said, it's the best flying EDF I've had and thrust vectoring is a gamechanger. Now looking to increase the surface mevement, especially the canards to get even more out of it.

[@nirlachman007]

Oh man, you made me want to get one and use the new FW 2150kv with all the TV goodies! Great video Jon! Can’t want for more TV stuff more from you 🙏🏻👌🏻

[@rcpilotwill]

That last landing was great 👍🏾

[@recoveryfpv8539]

Thanks for the great content, dig the drone work.

[@zacharynashalook8452]

Dear Jon without the H & Brother, I stand behind my word when I say this jet is absolutely ridiculous, I love it! It's cartoonish the way it throws that big Fanny around the sky pun intended but WOW! Now on a completely different plane like out of this world, I watched another video just before with one of your best maneuvers yet. It was a public apology, I didn't follow the beef. I actually never even heard of it until the video but that was Top Gun! There's not alot of hobbies that cross and touch so many of every kind of background, age or interest like RC does. I can't think of anything that compares or even gets close. So even though I didn't know about it I am glad and thankful you put the beef down. I love the channel, their's is cool to. They're both for completely different kinds of of experience levels, this one being more like college course and up experience. And theirs more for the beginners, including beginner grade vehicles of every sort. Anyway, nice to see it squashed before I ever saw a pattie on the ground. Take care

[@TwoBrosRC]

Happy to hear your thoughts Zach!

[@lukasort1762]

Beautiful camouflage paint job of the Czech Air Force. 🇨🇿

[@AerospaceMatt]

I want to add TV to my grey FW F-18 to make it an F-18 HARV variant. That only had pitch vectoring but it’s better than no TV at all.

[@highalpharc]

Thrust vectoring can be a bit scary. I have it in my Mig 29 and added it to the F-22. I only use it up high and shut it off when coming out of a maneuver. I noticed extreme caution has to be used to avoid flipping it at lower speeds. It will take me some more time to master it but it really opens you up to a whole new world of aerobatics!!!

[@davidgerlach1132]

I love this EDF. The Gripen "To Grip or grab onto" ...

[@TwoBrosRC]

🤛

[@davidgerlach1132]

@@TwoBrosRC That what Dr. Google replied to me.

[@letoatreides8098]

​ @davidgerlach1132 Well, it means that too, but this jet is not named after grabbing something, that would be ridiculous! It's named after the fable animal, griffin. which in swedish is called grip. See, much less ridiculous ;-) So to reiterate, grip=griffin, grip=grasp(as an order), gripen=the griffin. gripen=caught. Not at all confusing.

[@djjay9974]

Great, thorough review as always! Withe Freewing upgrading the motor to the 3658-2150Kv inrunner brushless with new 12 blade EDF do you think you still recommend th e FMS motor upgrade? Also for ESC would you go with a Spektrum ESC or the FMS ESC?

[@TwoBrosRC]

A better review of this jet was posted recently - definitely check it out and see if it answers your question: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWeci3d7hq-nlbs

[@balrogdrums]

Really great improvement, so what is your New final CG ? Best regards

[@TwoBrosRC]

Check our newest vid on it and you'll see!

[@henryairconcepts2999]

I have to use Newer FMS 2000KV edf paired with Flyfun 120A running with 7s Lipo to take off from grass. The power is enormous eventhough it's nose heavy. But with TV it does aerobatic easily, though it struggles with inverted high alpha

[@F3DPylon]

I’m happy you got closure with MotionRC’s customer support. I had several very bad experiences with MotionRC when all I wanted was for them to add an addendum to cut down the aileron throw in the Freewing manual for the Mirage 2000 v1. As called out the roll was far too fast even dangerous. Heck, their own pilot in the MotionRC videos were screaming to cut down the ailerons to 40%! MotionRC’s customer service claimed there wasn’t a problem and tried to sell me a gyro to tame the ailerons. This got so cantankerous that MotionRC’s solution was to not sell me any more product. This worked out fine as most of my foamy jets are now NIB FMS jets or Freewing jets I pulled from the trash bins at the field, most likely as a result of their customer support service. This was close to 10 years ago. But based on your experience I might have to try to re-establish a working relationship with MotionRC. I have to ask how are you driving the Freewing 9 bladed impeller with the FMS motor?

[@TwoBrosRC]

Expo can always be used to tamp roll response down a bit. We always prefer to fly with maximum rates and it's incredibly rare when we change that. We may have to give the Mirage a go and see how it performs for us.

[@F3DPylon]

Fully agree with the use of the full servo motion to maintain the highest servo resolution. The Mirage uses full span elevons. To get good elevator authority requires a lot of elevator motion at a stable CG. This motion is not needed in the aileron responce. MotionRC later did recommend in writing the cutting down of the aileron while maintaining the manual’s elevator deflection. Still used high expo values on the ailerons after cutting down the aileron mix to less than 25%. ( 50/50 is my usual starting place for elevons). Still can perform drill bit rolls. I wouldn’t waste any time with the Mirage. Your Gripen shows so much more performance than my Mirage even with the FMS power system. The question I had was the driving of the Freewing 9 bladed fan with the FMS motor. Freewing uses a proprietary fan drive. Or did I mis-understand your power system and that you are using the FMS fan and FMS motor. @@TwoBrosRC

[@TwoBrosRC]

@F3DPylon We're using the entire FMS fan and motor, no Freewing components were used.

[@F3DPylon]

Thank you, I too found that the FMS EDF power unit really woke up the older Freewing 80mm like the F-5, Mirage 2000 and F-14. Today with the 12bladed 2150kv Freewing in my Cougar I don't see a nickels difference.The FMS might be faster and the FW might pull better. Still having an inordinate high failure rate with Freewing servos. Again thank you. @@TwoBrosRC

[@tabdycollins]

I think it is Airguardian who has reversed the nosewheel, which helps to bring the CG further aft. I think he also said it looked more scale in positioning although incorrect so far as retraction, which goes rearwards in the full scale aircraft.

[@TwoBrosRC]

That's correct.

[@ayyyyph2797]

I wonder if sometime in the future we'll see newer models based off the new wing and control surface configuration?

[@TwoBrosRC]

Hopefully!

[@jriley-tv1on]

Greee-punn! Now when i see this plane, that's what I'll hear. 😊

[@TwoBrosRC]

Ja! Det är godt

[@jared6072]

Thats a great sounding gyro setup for the thrust vectoring. Going ti have to listen to that setup part a few more times to unpack all that to set up my freewing f18 v2 with tv and a fms 90 fan.

[@TwoBrosRC]

It's a lot of info, sorry about the dump! The easier to digest form: Prior to setting up the AS3X gyro, assign the pitch TV servo to Elevator in the receiver channel assignment, and the yaw TV servo to Rudder in the same menu. Go to Servo Settings and change the travel of the elevon and rudder servos to 70%. Set the canards to 150% (assuming you have an IX20 for canard control) and set the TV servos to 150%. Set up the AS3X gyro in Forward Programming. You can set much higher gains since the elevons and rudder won't be working anywhere near as the TV will. TV doesn't scale with speed like control surfaces, so you can crank up the gains pretty high without any issue - but do it slowly until you find what you prefer. Once the receiver is programmed, go back to Servo Settings and set Rudder and both elevons to 150%. This programs the gyro so that the vectoring system and canards compensates way more than the elevons and rudder do, which prevents it from oscillating while providing a ton of low speed stability. The gyro will use TV to keep the jet from sliding out of high alpha. It's like having a micro flight computer!

[@jared6072]

@@TwoBrosRC hey thanks. That makes sense. Its like setting up the eurofighter canards, but its for thrust vectoring instead. Yeah, im sporting the ix20. Been messing around with the programmable sequencer for stuff. Kinda sucks that i havent found a clear cut way to use the sequencers from spektrum, but your vid a few months back gave me a starting to start figuring it out.

[@m-e-m-e-y]

Some questions, What battery do you fly on (mah wise), I was wondering which one I should get because motion says anywhere from a 4000 anywhere to a 6000. And I’m considering getting the thrust vectoring kit, for that do you need the FMS motor to pull of those crazy stunts tbh at you did or can I still do those in the stock motor?

[@TwoBrosRC]

4400 LiHV batteries are what we generally fly this jet with. You don't need the FMS motor for this - the Mirage 80mm motor from FW is a better choice. You'll see two Saturdays from now - we did some mods to this jet to make it perform even better!

[@nirlachman007]

Hey Jon! Did you do any mods to the battery tray in order to be able to move it backwards? I’ve heard some people cut the foam to achieve it. Thanks

[@TwoBrosRC]

Nope, no mods to the battery at all.

[@nirlachman007]

@@TwoBrosRC so just all the way backwards? :)

[@TwoBrosRC]

Yep.

[@nirlachman007]

@@TwoBrosRC cool, thanks!

[@nirlachman007]

@@TwoBrosRC another small question about it- you haven’t move the battery plywood either? I see that if moving the battery all the way back it’s sitting on the foam

[@moredesignbuild]

You fly way better than you pronounce Gripen 😉 Now I really want to buy a RC like this

[@TwoBrosRC]

That's how it's supposed to be pronounced lol It's not "grippin"

[@moredesignbuild]

@@TwoBrosRC You do it better than many other. I’m Swedish so I know 😃

[@adrianocpaer3989]

hi friend. are you using original mix canard and elevator and canard aileron?

[@TwoBrosRC]

Search "two brothers Gripen setup" and you'll see what we're using.

[@edwarddietrich717]

It's nice you kissed and made up with Motion Rc. Customer service sucks with FMS. They don't even answer emails. Love you content and the fact you jive alot of information in well shot and interesting videos. Cheers to you!!!🎉🎉🎉

[@lafranja6969]

Hi, how can i connect gyro or gyros (to work toghter) due gyro (hobbyeagle) has only 3 inputs and on gripen have 5 due of canards ?

[@TwoBrosRC]

No idea. We don't use non-AS3X gyros.

[@DaylanKeathley]

So is this I good jet to fly after edf training on a 50mm Habu. I could really find much one if it’s a good level up above that

[@TwoBrosRC]

Definitely wouldn't recommend this as a second jet. You'll want to fly something like the E-flite Viper 70mm first, which will train you on how to fly jets with heavier wing loading: kzbin.info/www/bejne/boHdfGOVbN2SorM

[@dsmithwc04]

Where did you put your CG at? Sorry if I missed it in video.

[@TwoBrosRC]

20mm behind the marks with the TV setup on a 4400 SMC HV pack.

[@adrianocpaer3989]

what CG are you using friend?

[@TwoBrosRC]

20mm behind the marks.

[@adrianocpaer3989]

@@TwoBrosRC thank you

[@redwineisfine]

Jon, question. What is it about the fms edfs that convinces you to interchange? Is this the regular plastic or the aluminum upgrade to 80mm you prefer? Do you prefer the Rafael or this rig?

[@TwoBrosRC]

That was several questions, not just one. 😉 The FMS motors generally have more thrust, weigh less, and are more efficient. We're using the standard FMS Pro 2100kv motor - it's linked in the description. Rafale edges out Gripen for being lighter, but a thrust vectored Rafale would absolutely dominate Gripen.

[@redwineisfine]

@@TwoBrosRC sorry, walking typing and working out thoughts on venturing into the Cunard flying machines.. Just watched too many wreck them at my local field and it leads me to believe its all in the set-up

[@sanexup1038]

Ive had nothing but great experiences with MotionRC customer service, for many years and many planes. Not sure who your comparing them with, seemed like petty slander from someone trying to create an income generating youbube channel. Plenty of satisfied customers who've been flying them for a long time. Id say of all the manufacturers planes i own, the Freewing Flightline planes are the likely the best value. It seems like no one, who claims independent reviews, ever reviews a plane on value. It's usually coordinated with a release date and what usually follows is an exaggerated post maiden review. Am i being critical, indeed. I think learning to hear and value some level of critique helps with the realization of improvement. It seems like MotionRC gets that. I fly all manufacturers/dealers planes, but this is why Motion is my favorite. Pure value. Tak sa mycket for revisiting the Gripen. I'm pretty much convinced to put TV on mine now, with an upgraded fan unit.

[@TwoBrosRC]

We posted our experiences with Motion and provided evidence in our Eurofighter vid (kzbin.info/www/bejne/momWeJ2gjZV5n80) - none of which was slander because we spoke truthfully about what we experienced and the way we were treated by their CS representative. Our main pilot Jon works as a support lead and community manager, and would not accept that kind of service being provided by his own employees. Therefore he won't accept it from a company. In terms of value, what people often overlook is that Freewing/Flightline planes are sold as PNP models. You have to provide a receiver. E-flite models are usually Bind & Fly, meaning you get a receiver already. If you don't want it, you can sell it and still come out cheaper than an equivalent Freewing jet in several situations. Value is also subjective, and what one person values, another may not. Definitely appreciate your unfiltered commentary, though we disagree with some of it. But that's totally fine so long as we can stay respectful!

[@lars9966]

3:00 thats cool but they didnt wanna give me some stupid plasticparts for the su 35. was highly annoyed

[@TwoBrosRC]

That's probably going to be less of an issue going forward.

[@flyingfools47]

So does this plane (with thrust vectoring) beat the Rafale for you?

[@TwoBrosRC]

It brings it closer to Rafale, but Rafale is still a more capable airframe because it's less heavy. TV makes it fly better for sure, but fly better in ways it should already have been flying. It's hard to explain. The light feel of Rafale in the air compared to the heavy feel of Gripen is the best way to put it.

[@Netherboiii5443]

Is freewing f14 good on stock setup because I don’t do agile maneuvers like cobras

[@dustinkoehen]

sadly not. You would need to upgrade the motor since it's massively underpowered and even worse you would need to strengthen the main landing gear because if you don't fly of smooth asphalt and butter every single landing the main gear will sooner or later (likely sooner) become loose and brake. It's possible to make it a good jet but it cost way too much sadly. The guys of this channel made a video about that too: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZnKfXqMe7h3jqcsi=qGtle62HhEMqxWKF I wanted it too but choosed to wait till they decide to upgrade it in the future

[@TwoBrosRC]

The commenter above covered our thoughts perfectly.

[@Netherboiii5443]

Wow thanks

[@CentralRC24]

I put the motionRc 90mm motor in my Jas

[@TwoBrosRC]

That's ill-advised since the jet isn't designed for 90mm intake or exhaust.

[@tomatoe44]

my uncle working at saab developing the gripen is screaming in brazil somewhere

[@TwoBrosRC]

???

[@TwoBrosRC]

??

[@TwoBrosRC]

???

[@tomatoe44]

@@TwoBrosRC thrust vectoring is the thing, its not supposed to exist on the gripen

[@alexrobertson557]

Motion only made it right for you because you are a popular youtuber that called them out, they never gave a shit to fix things for me.

[@TwoBrosRC]

They haven't actually lived up to their side of the agreement yet. It remains to be seen if they will. But at least we're attempting to use our influence to make things better for everyone, not just us!

[@alexrobertson557]

@@TwoBrosRC I am really glad that you are doing that and its why I love your channel, keep up the great work gentlemen. Its a shame I cant even get them to respond let alone fix an issue.

[@TwoBrosRC]

Update: Just got an order notice for the replacement parts we'd asked for which absolutely makes up for the Gripen issue we experienced with them years ago. We'll continue to do what we can to help MotionRC see the importance of customer satisfaction - but it looks like they're trying to improve which is all we can ask for.

[@alexrobertson557]

@@TwoBrosRC Well I'm glad it worked out for you, I suppose ill have to start a youtube channel and get popular then call them out before they bother replying to my emails about something that was faulty on delivery eh.

[@Mikeylikesit1968]

The jet is nice , but the nose gear is in the wrong location, it's much further back like the real one I think the reason to move it forward was cause of battery placement

[@TwoBrosRC]

That's accurate, but moving it back would most likely make it even easier to ground loop at speed.

[@Mikeylikesit1968]

@@TwoBrosRC would make it short wheelbase Nice flying otherwise

[@briankmavpro5246]

So you give MotionRc a good report because you got a call back from CEO and he said pick whatever you want. Meanwhile, many people like myself get stuck with poor quality gator-looking foam or bad speed controllers because motion says "Sorry that's how it comes" or "You used it" so it's not covered. I've owned almost every EDF motion sold over the last 5 years and will never buy another plane from them again. Besides the limited stock of parts and discontinuing planes just a month after buying a $500 edf is nothing short of BS. Glad you were upfront and said you were compensated to give a better review but sadly it won't change my view of them.

[@TwoBrosRC]

No, as we clearly stated in the vid and in the comments, we spoke positively about Motion because our video on the Eurofighter spurred them to reach out and realize that how they've been treating customers - knowingly or not - was unacceptable. That they've committed to change and improve. Time will tell if that's the case. If it isn't changing for the better as time goes on, we'll definitely speak up about it. Please don't misrepresent what we've said. We haven't received *anything* from Motion yet. We made this update about our experiences based on our conversation with their CEO and the understanding that they'll be improving their CS for all customers, not just us. If it doesn't improve overall, we'll definitely be speaking out about it.

[@morpheus61361]

That is one influencer experience. The real test is how they treat the average joe and in general it's poorly.

[@TwoBrosRC]

That was our experience. As we mentioned in the vid and in the comments, we asked for Motion to live up to their "Where customers matter" slogan. We were informed that the kind of support we received was not acceptable. That sounds like a commitment to change to us.

[@sanexup1038]

That has not been my experience in the years of doing business with them. And in comparison to other companies, any out of the box issues I've had were quickly resolved by MotionRC. Other companies, not so much. Your experiences are what they are but my experiences are not in line with your statement, at all. Motion has been great.

[@Netherboiii5443]

I’m waiting

[@TwoBrosRC]

Yep, that's what people do when a video isn't published.

[@Smashsalladyt]

the ikea aircraft

[@TwoBrosRC]

IKEAJet

[@BamE-qj8hl]

Grrrripen😂

[@henryairconcepts2999]

Now you still think FMS rafale is a better jet than this ? 😁

[@TwoBrosRC]

Yes, because it's lighter and easier to maneuver and fly. Gripen is much more heavily loaded, but the TV unit helps significantly with keeping it maneuverable. It shouldn't *need* TV to fly better though.