The Devolution Of The Ork Race - 40K Theories

[@leatherjacket9]

Based off of what you said in this video... I have a theory as well. It seems as though the Orks mimic what the current need for them to survive is. During the war in heaven they probably needed to be as tall, intelligent, and technologically advanced enough to survive the current state of being they environment called for. Along with probably picking up on certain psychic wave lengths on how to do somethings instinctively and without training. This makes and made them very adaptive. Fast forward to the 41st and 42nd millennium and Orks are slightly below being on par with the imperium... Depending on what imperium world's we talk about. But the Orks seem to be in this sweet spot to not take over the Galaxy but not be wiped out either, which may have been what the old ones meant for their genetic design. Had they stayed in their pre-ork form they may have wiped out all other species in the Galaxy and thus not be able to fulfill their original war like religion or presently be able to find a good fight. The Orks may actually be the perfect species... Maybe even more so than the Tyranids. The Orks psychic ability even allows them to defy basic physics in every day rudimentary and mundane fashion. Like getting a scorcha or dakka gun to work, when by all reason it shouldn't. Other than the fact that in this moment in time in the very time and Ork needs the gun to work or the trukk to run, it actually runs. The perfect sweet spot of necessity being the mother of invention. The physiology and intelligence even seems to adapt to their environmental needs.

[@ruipinho619]

@justin leckey Can you show me the source for that non agression pact? I want to read it

[@41stcadian86]

It also would explains how feral Orks can exist even so their understanding of technologie is genetic. If it is not needed it doesn't develop.

[@leatherjacket9]

@ZeroWolf they wouldn't do it on purpose I would think. Like a band of Orks probably wouldn't declare a Waaaagh against an ant hill. But with the threat of the c'tan gone, the Necrons in hibernation, and the eldar just being ever elusive with the webway, it would be hard to find a good fight if they remained as powerful and dominant as they were. I think this is the same reason you don't come across a lot of Prime Orks. Where would Orks find a challenge or enough battle to ever get that big in the 1st place. I imagine Prime Orks are probably on planets that have or once had Titanic or gargantuan creatures and opponents to fight. Idk. It's just a theory. I think the krok would not choose to be weaker but adapt to weaker creatures in order to have a good fight. Orks can psychically develop weapons that could blow the eldar or imperium out of the water... But wits da challenge n'dat?! 😊

[@molliethomas2585]

@@leatherjacket9 that makes a lot of sense

[@AJ49377]

according to eldrad ulthran in the end of the beast arises series, the ork are the kork and they were design to fulfill a positive purpose. they constantly evolve to that point. they have just been stopped every time by the humans, and pushed backwards. you have to wonder, considering they at one point can get to primarch intellingence and teleport whole planets in an instance across the universe, what is the upper limit programmed into them ? probably ancient eldar or even old one levels, which would annihilate all the races in 40k. remember humans are nothing to what they used to be in the "Golden" age of Technology.

[@darkblood626]

Orks grow and become more advanced as they fight so the wars of 'modern' 40K may just not be as substantial as the war in heaven. I like this idea because it helps drive home just how crazy the war in heaven was.

[@marcuskurze9759]

Right,I think all the wars in modern 40K are just a little bing on the Radar compared to the war in the heavens.

[@darkblood626]

@@marcuskurze9759 Ditto. War in heaven was the war the turned the warp into a hellscape in the fist place, after all.

[@darkblood626]

@Lord of Warhammer No. The birth of slaanesh agitated the chaos gods into action and started their 'great game' for domination over the warp and real space. The war in heaven created the first deamons.

[@trollzynisaacjohan1793]

@Vulkan Primarch of the Salamanders the war in heaven began the gestation of the first 3 chaos gods to awaken in our earth middle ages 500AD to 1500AD.

[@yourneighbour5738]

For Orks, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude. -Uthan the Perverse, a controversial Eldar philosopher

[@Esau420]

I had a friend who said that orks are the only good guys in wh40k. They are true to their nature. Unfettered by ego. The last part I don't totally agree with but still an interesting thought

[@Esau420]

@@enclaveofdoom I really have no skin in the game anymore. So sure. You're right

[@p_serdiuk]

@@enclaveofdoom Tyranids are not really individuals.

[@angrysocialjusticewarrior]

@@Esau420 Everyone in 40k is true to their nature. IF humanity didn't have other aliens to fight, they would fight themselves just like they did from the beginning of their existence. And with the eldar. The last time they didn't have anything to fight, they didn't know what to do with themselves and ended up creating slanesh from exploring things they were not created to explore. chaos wants to just act out their fantasies and impulses, and they are doing exactly that. Everyone is true to their nature.

[@Esau420]

@@angrysocialjusticewarrior I quoted a friend. But I agree with you. The only really underhanded race is the TAU

[@exactinmidget92]

no need for "advanced" technology when all you need is "believe".

[@majormajorasic]

Orks are literally anime characters then. Instead of power of friendship they've got power of *_WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH_*

[@Squishysforbreakfast]

No they still need "props" like actors do to make things more believable. i.e. the vehicles need an engine and wheels but the engine might be in backwards and there's no air in the tires.

[@majormajorasic]

@@Squishysforbreakfast Or just a paper with words Vroom on it.

[@Squishysforbreakfast]

@@majormajorasic I'm not sure about that. Their guns still look like guns and not stick or finger guns. They still use metal shaped into an axe for choppas. Their magic is powerful but it has limits. They still need physical things to skrap a new vehicle.

[@XtreemAlan]

IT JUST WORKS

[@Nordicscholar]

Orks grow according to how much fighting they are getting into, and how good the fighting is. Some eldar mentioned how the Beast's invasion was nothing compared to the Krork's attack after the War in Heaven. The Imperium simply isn't putting up a good enough of a fight to really get the Orks going full Krork. I figure if the 'Nid hive fleets started to threaten the galaxy as a whole, the WAAAAAGH would register it as a PROPA FIGHT and get the Orks going full Krork to prepare for the fight.

[@ShaqNasty557]

@@skalgrimfellaxe5796 *Coughs* I think your forgetting about the octarius war there mate.

[@sand0decker]

I think that in the end, the only forces left in the Universe will be the Orks, the Tyranids, and the Imperium of Mankind. Well, obviously I'm speaking of before the Emperor awakens and leads the forces of Humanity on a winning streak against both Xeno threats. After that, peace will be everlasting

[@ShaqNasty557]

@@sand0decker Until horus heresy (Electric boogaloo) happens

[@DougStewart]

What was that Orc Warboss the size of a dreadnaught called again ?

[@ShaqNasty557]

@@DougStewart Which one? Theres 3 i can think of. 1. The beast (Probably bigger than a dreadnought) 2. The beasts bodyguards 3. Ghazgkull Mag Uruk Thraka (The ork warboss who is the closest to unifying the whole race)

[@Dima072181]

There is an inherent flaw in this logic Philosoraptor, though your ideas are quite good. You have to consider the Krorks as a half finished project, the Old Ones were desperate to create something which could stand up to the Necrontyr, thus they engineered a self-perpetuating horde specifically designed for combat. Since each of the Greenskins is effectively an ecosystem they would have an army that could have theoretically held the line against any force. The problem arises when you start to realize that the project spun out of control when the Old Ones went extinct...at least it partially did. I view each Waaagh as something quite different, we saw in the war of the beast technology and bio-types that were far beyond what we have previously seen. I believe that each time we have a WAAAGH the genetic programming of the original Kroks rises to the surface, as they were meant to fight in the trillions

[@supercellodude]

In a way, the Orks and the Tyranids are similar in how the cohesiveness and effectiveness of their groups is amplified with a "psychic layer" for communication and/or influence.

[@poodlescone9700]

What you are saying is the Krok is the equivalent of a galactic STD again the Necrons.

[@GrenzRell]

@@poodlescone9700 A super yeast infection basically

[@KelltheTitan]

There is also the very real possibility that the Krork being used for reference could himself be an exceptional specimen. There doesn't seem to be any way of knowing for sure if the everyday Krork reached that size or had access to that level of equipment.

[@iiMEiii]

I just think they devolve because if they don't they will be a out of control super weapon that even the old ones can't take out. They matched the necros but then have devolved to now match the much weaker Humans. If the old ones built them only for war but loved all life they would want to remove them at some point or containe them so they are not just wrecking the rest of the old ones zoo.

[@TheGreatThicc]

That rock/metal sounding background music and listening to the bit about the Krorks in the first half made me think. Imagine how apocolyptic the battles between Krorks and Necrons must have been. Robots with rifles that can gut tanks being rushed by a tsunami of hulking monsters the size of an African Elephant...

[@Slechy_Lesh]

This is the Final Liberation soundtrack and the whole thing is godly awesome

[@sidneymcghee2626]

Da Boyz dont need no komplex tinkin, lif is simple shoot da enemies till day dead den find more enemies. Lif is good for da Ork boy

[@phreakazoith2237]

In a galaxy gone mad, orks appear to be pretty reasonable

[@majormajorasic]

@@phreakazoith2237 *Galaxy gone right* Tink lik un Ork ya git.

[@phreakazoith2237]

majormasic yu one of da boyz! Yu right. Ork tinking guut tinking. We so green, we stomp galaxy big time! WAAAAGHH!!!!

[@marcjones9209]

Shoot em till dey dead den shoots em again until deyre oomie jam!!!

[@juliomontega2868]

Oomies are purple, da buttn iz red, gif me more dakka to shooty you ded.

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

Favorite quote for Ork survival " Be cautious.. (Alien technology)... Is incompatible with the psychicly motivated entheric generators of the Krork'... Thank you Talker...

[@meatybtz]

The Kork were defeated by the Eldar. It is likely that they "neutered" them. Orks are actually a singular gigantic psychic machine. As we can see the machine isn't working quite right. Ork society grows only as big as the psychic field of order created by its "boss" or bosses. Orks go Waaagh before their society reaches it's peak thus ensuring that they never reach peak because they go off to war before it happens. Then you have the Beast, a warboss large enough that his psychic calming effect brings ork society on par with Imperial Society and then beyond it. The natural Ork internal conflict was wholly suppressed. They built factories, farm worlds, and created a singular multi-world, multi-system ork society that ensured proper supply. On top of that new casts of orks emerged that can only emerge when ork society reaches that point but as we know they Waaagh before they reach that level. So we can only assume that the machine has been modified to "go off early" to prevent ork society from growing to that scale. After all, as with the Beast, we see them capable of feats of technology greater than the Eldar. So the key to Ork social development is the Warboss and his "size". The smaller orks of today were likely made that way to prevent the Ork society from growing, stabilizing and conquering the galaxy. It's also why the imperium learned early on that to end a Waaagh (some waaghs draw orks from all over to join them as long as the warboss is alive) to simply kill the warboss and the Waagh will disintigrate. Thus the linchpin of Ork society, tech, scale, and stability is the Largest of the Ork breed, the Boss. All of which, Beast excepting, are quite small and can barely suppress the wild instincts of the orks under them. Orks remain the ultimate species of the Galaxy, even neutered by the Eldar, they still can return to some version of their old form given the right genetic luck (a giant warboss appears). Add that to their natural transforming ability, they can take an airless world and over time it will develop an atmosphere, specific fungal forms will grow and start to produce it. IMO the Kork were the apex of the Old One's creations.

[@danieltgrissani]

If you do research into something called fungal mycelium en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycelium you will learn how multiple colonies can come together to form more complex colonies. If you do reader has into neurons (brain cells) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuron you will notice how similar mycelium and neurons are. Orks are basically psychic fungi. That's why, in small groups they will eventually become feral. Once enough Orks gather in a space, they spontaneously evolve as a society and oddboys start popping up. Once a big enough Waaagh! gets going, and the biggest, oldest, and most experienced Orks keep surviving long enough they would eventually develop Primeorks again. Once they then eventually conquer the galaxy, theoretically they could re-evolve into Krorks

[@hectorandem2944]

How can a part-fungal creature be "neutered"? 🤔

[@meatybtz]

@@hectorandem2944 In this case neutered refers not to the alteration of reproductive organs but rather the capacity to produce certain kinds of orks or certain features of orks. Like how most odd boys are not quite "complete" something is missing from the puzzle that makes them less functional than they otherwise could be. A good example is Talker and Bozgat. Talker has all the mekboy components but as often happens his "true" access to mekboy genetic memory comes with madness and he is unable to use it fully. Bozgat on the other hand is a mekboy oddboy and actually understands and often implements what Talker reminds him about. Technically, all ork mekboyz should speak like Talker when he is "cogent" and mek like Bozgat. Instead something "broke". Considering that the Eldar claim to have "defeated the Kork" yet the Kork remain as Orks (orange vs green even) might mean that the Eldar "defeated" them via genetic breaking rather than annihilation because orks cannot really be wiped out. EVER, unless you completely destroy the biome of the planet and even then.. that's not 100% certain. Note that the Necrons during the war in heaven did not defeat the Kork but managed to defeat the Old Ones says something. The Eldar, most notably, ran away to survive the conflict. Yet they managed something the Necrons could not. So by defeat we mean neutered, by neutered we mean removed certain functions from the Kork rendering them into Orks. No where near as strong or functional as the Kork were. Remember even reduced when the right genes came up they still managed to grow as tall as a Hab Block and develop galaxy spanning tech and move entire planets and even move planets into orbits of other planets w/o destabilizing the other planet's orbits. That is some tech that even the Eldar cannot boast of and rivals that of the Dolmen Gates and similar of the Necrons. That is scary powerful. The Kork could do that and more and it took the Eldar Empire at their supreme heights to not kill them off but to render them "less dangerous".

[@vbgvbg1133]

@@meatybtz Orks are really just “i think, therefore it is” meaning that, with enough orks, they can do anything.

[@fieldy409]

Or maybe the psychic machine is 'broken' because a piece is missing: The Old Ones. The Old Ones were super powerful psykers, the Waaagh is psychic energy linking all the Orks that makes the Orks function as soldiers. Maybe the Old Ones were there doing some sort of psychic thing to the WAAAGH, cultivating it, fixing it when it goes wrong and directing it in the right direction. Without the conductor the Waagh goes off the tracks. Perhaps every horde was meant to have an Old One general psychically manipulating the Waagh far behind the front lines. It could also be a safety measure. Maybe they're supposed to go like this when there isn't a war as serious as the war in heaven was. Maybe if a truly galaxy ending threat emerges a switch will be flipped in Ork heads and they'll go like the Beast. Maybe this is standby mode functioning as intended. Sure they might seem pretty dangerous to everyone else in their current state but to an Old One is a modern Ork a threat? Maybe going like the Beast was the glitch, maybe those were Orks doing what they weren't supposed to. Aggresively expand, still build spaceships to travel and weapons to fight for room to grow, drop spores everywhere to build up the army stock, their killing each other is perhaps a byproduct of their agression but it's fine since they'll drop spores and make more anyway. Maybe Krorks could kill Old Ones if they wanted but Orks can't, so Orks are the safe mode.

[@Althemor]

Prime-Ork Primarch Prime-Orks probably disappeared when there wasn't any fun to be had in mocking the Primarchs.

[@DarthBigBen]

Well, I am now terrified of Talker.

[@poodlescone9700]

Or get him drunk and listen to him ramble on advanced engineering.

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

I loved that part...Alien technology 'consciousness' are incompatible with the psychically motivated entheric generators of the Krork'.. Pretty much the reason Orks break down and rebuild alien tech to make it "Orky" enough to work with Waaagh psychic energy to become 'effective' weapons, vehicles, etc...

[@alexandrejose8362]

I got terrified when I read that he knew what friendship is like. Even Ghazgkull can't think past having "best enemies".

[@DarthBigBen]

Alexandre José NANI?!

[@Oliolli3]

Also from Talker in a different story: "Concentrated psychical excitation point, emanating metaphysical influences designed to affect all those of Krork derivation" in reference to a fake WAAAGH! field generator.

[@MrMartechi]

I think the Orks take by design a form that best allows them to be successful in their environment. In the modern day galaxy, the Orks are arguably the most successful species of all, populating the entire galaxy and easily withstanding all the threads out there. There's simply no reason for them to be any more advanced - so they aren't. Going by that logic - given the current turmoil in the galaxy, we might very well see them ascend to more intelligent and dangerous forms once again, as they are presented with more formidable foes.

[@brandonaughtman9091]

If Orks can continue to fight and grow more powerful, then is it possible for Weirdboy to keep getting more and more Pysker powers until he literally transcends his body and becomes the first Ork Daemon Boy?

[@brandonaughtman9091]

We have never seen any Ork Daemons, maybe that is because a Weird Boy just does not live as long as it needs to in order to gather enough WAAGHH! energy in order to transform. Orks do not fear death because Gork and Mork both beat The Nightbringer bad.

[@KingChinny]

Course not, he'll pop.

[@NetMoverSitan]

Weirdboyz are basically shonen anime characters.

[@NetMoverSitan]

Ah, as in the one who led a WAAAAGH!!!...that the Cadian High Command didn't even try (or want) to stop them from going INTO the Eye of Terror and eventually was told by Khorne "Your endless bloodlust pleases me...I an Khorne and I have brought you to my domain to fight my favoured generals, not even death will stop you, now come to me! To my brass citadel and face my armies!" and Tuska said "You want a fight?! alright boyz, to dat brass citydel, we've got som' krumpin' to do! WAAAAGH!!!".

[@Grubnar]

No. Not in the way humans view the Warp. You see, the Orkz are not like the humans in how they use and are affected by the Warp. Weirdboys for example, seem to be immune to Daemonic possession in a way, since although Deamons are fully capable to enter an Orkz mind, their can not control it ... resulting in a very bored Deamon, and a very happy Ork Weirdboy who finally has someone to talk to. Weirdboys also do not draw their power directly from the warp. But instead channel it through other Orkz around them. This makes them more stable than human psykers , in theory, but in practice it means that WHEN things go wrongm they go catastophicly wrong indeed since the feedback loop may cause any and all Orkz close to the Weirdboy suffer from a sudden case of exploding head syndrome, or to"'eadbanga!" as the Orkz call it. This makes the Weirdboys very unpoppular among other Orkz when not in battle, and they are shunned by most Orkz except for Madboyz, why seem to have a strange affection for Weirdboyz.

[@enthiegavoir5955]

I still love when you keep the elegant tone when talking about "Oddboyz, Sumboyz, Brewboyz"

[@jameshowell7178]

Talker has another interaction with Snikgob in the Waaagh! Faker, saying of the device; "concentra'ed Psychical excitation point emana'ing me'aphysical influences designed to affect all those of Krork derivation... 'Tis no Waaagh! You shall find it all a sham my good Ork." The Prophets of Waaagh! Is possibly my favourite audio drama and I wasn't into Orks before it. Hearing true Ork language translated into Ork English in the posh tones of Jonathan Keeble is worth the price alone

[@legionaireb]

It's possible that a 'krork' is merely an Ork that has achieved a certain level of development that has simply not been matched since the time of the Old Ones. The War In Heaven lasted for millennia. If an ork survived that long and had a sufficient number of followers, they might naturally develop into Krorks.

[@TheGreatThicc]

"Lasted for millenia" That's like calling the Battle of Stalingrad a minor skirmish.

[@bryanmaung4700]

+Eric Grieve No.. Stalingrad is not even a gunfight

[@vbgvbg1133]

@@bryanmaung4700 a fight???

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

I'm sure that Krork Specimen in the 'Clone Lord' book, was a high level Krok warlord and foe of the Nercrons and Ctan...he was probably more the exception, Rather then the norm...

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

Weimar Mintpublia ....it maybe a 90's thing I picked up as a teen?...I suppose I use it to represent trailing off on a thought ...or contemplating a concept...but I guess I should focus more on using 'Full stops' and appropriate use of 'commas' and other types of expression for the Grammar Inquisitors out there.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

@@ChainsawDunDeez I'm not exactly a grammar nazi, but you're using the technique wrong. Yes, it is meant to represent trailing or unfinished train of thought, but the idea is to keep the ending of the sentence ambiguous or leave a suggestion to be finished by the reader when you do it. Your sentences are all complete, so they just look kinda, you know...

[@ssorvete89]

@Jasper Atkinson me...

[@neuroticrith]

I'm in love with idea of a group of orks in fancy dress talking away when one of them suggests that all this silly pretense is ridiculous followed by them immediately ripping their shirts and top hats off and beating each other senseless with the chairs they were previously sitting on.

[@Gillymonster18]

12m tall krorks in armor surpassing a space marines in both technology and thickness? It’s a wonder the old ones lost...

[@TheChiconspiracy]

Can't the typical Necron footsoldier's gun shoot through a tank? If you are fighting countless legions of those, while the C'tan can casually will blackholes into existence and go toe to toe with literal Eldar Gods, that Krork was probably not so scary in his time.

[@Aceshot-uu7yx]

The krork was a terrifying prospect because he could survive getting gunned down by necrons and swarm them. Aeldari were also present during the war and were supper dangerous as well. Krorks were still terrifying back then but in an equal proportion to what orks are now.

[@Neuralatrophy]

What if the Orks are functioning exactly as intended ? When faced with overwhelming odds, they rise to the occasion, their technology and their warriors getting stronger as the struggle mounts yet as they face fewer and fewer threats, they themselves become less threatening allowing their creators to move back into the space they cleared.

[@WanderingVictorious]

Leave it to the Inquisitor to so casually name-check three obscure xenos in one breath, thus completely crushing my self-confidence. Crushed as I am, though, I still have a question regarding the excerpt from Clonelord. Is it possible Fabius meant that the exoskeleton, which moments before he described as crude, was the immediate conceptual precursor of his armor, as opposed to its immediate evolutionary successor?

[@TaCo0oCaT]

Saige Pilgrim Yes, possibly so. Did he mean that it looked crude simply because it wasn't polished? Too spiky? Too orky? Not big enough paludrons? Although since in he next mentions that it might be superior to his own it could only mean that Mr Bile didn't like the way it looked.

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

An example is the war of the beast where Orks didn't even need the webway and bad technology far beyond the empire but it still looked crude and less sophisticated.

[@bob999yaitis]

i always took it as orks scaled up verse what they were fighting so it could just be that the necrion forced them to be at peek at all times while nowadays the threats aren't strong enough to trigger their full potential. a harder you hit them the harder they hit back kinda thing

[@-Big_Big]

i think it was because the orcs had the ability to be connected across vast distances back when the warp gate system was used by them helped by the old ones. thereby allowing massive waaaaghs to be formed. Perhaps the waaagh itself was empowered or directed by the old ones since they would have that psychic power to do so. suddenly without the proper means of connection between them, the waaagh would slowly decline, because it never reached a proper potency the odd boys would never "quite" be right. the beast did manage to have a gigantic empire as far as i recalled. just multiply that several times and suddenly youd have proper odd boys and tons of orcs becoming prime orcs due to the waaagh field being strong enough.

[@asaenvolk]

interesting theory, and not a bad one, heck the Boyz seemed to be even using the webway

[@Matt-md5yt]

Orks are my favorite race in standard fiction and they are funny. thanks man

[@dimwitsixtytwelve]

orks are dorks

[@matttherat4638]

@@dimwitsixtytwelve orks like forks

[@guypierson5754]

Imagine a job where everyone else you work with has a passion for, and deep understanding of, the subject, you can all communicate ideas almost nonverbally because you are all working to the same goals, you all work just for the advancement of the project and the love of your jobs. THAT is Ork kulture. Everyone working. Everyone happy-ish. Good stuff.

[@poodlescone9700]

Hot take heresy: hook up a mekboy brain to a computer and try to extract xenos tech for the benefit of the Imperium. Please don't BLAAM me, Inquisitor.

[@sand0decker]

Wouldn't work because a cogiter would gain abominable intelligence and need to be destroyed, heretic. Besides, the tools the Emperor provides is all a guardsman needs to bring the enemies of the Imperium to there knees!

[@derrekmitchell1264]

Was the ancient ork warlord known as The Beast a Krork? An evolutionary thowback to their ancient past, a Krork who escaped Necron captivity, or something else altogether?

[@ANDREALEONE95]

He looked like a very old Warboss.

[@derrekmitchell1264]

@@ANDREALEONE95 Being a Krork could help with that...

[@dawarboss3709]

The beast was almost a krork, but he’s just a really big ork. he didn’t live long enough to reach krork level

[@glassdash]

Enjoying your content as always.

[@northumbriabushcraft1208]

Love your videos, you know so much about the lore of something I love loads. Your videos are all 5*+ your videos are so binge worthy.

[@you1027]

Krork and Ork strike me as a similar contrast as the one between dinosaurs/megafauna and modern day birds and animals. While the older specimens were more impressive on an individual level, their contemporaries have evolved into a more efficient collective organism. One that's arguably more 'advanced' in the design of their overall system, rather than in basic measures like isolated attributes of the individuals such as strength, size, intelligence, etc.

[@emperorkane317]

I heard that during the Great Crusade, during a massive battle, the intensity of the fighting was turning some Orks into near Krorks. And apparently these near krorks were so powerful they nearly killed the Emperor. Could someone either correct me or elaborate further?

[@ianharrison5758]

There was a battle between the orks and imperium where Horus and the Emperor were separated from eachother, and the emperor was found taking on those spicy orks you mentioned. Horus seems to ge believe his father was in danger but given that once he and Horus (pretty easily, despite having broken weapons, at least Horus did) dispatched said spicy orks, the emperor then basically one shot half an army of them. Doubtful they were a huge threat to the emperor, they likely just caught him off guard and Horus over reacted.

[@kennethcook9406]

Wow, a month in and nobody's pointed this out! At 10:00 your reader says "Physically" while the text says "Psychically" That's a HUGE difference in meaning!

[@casanovafunkenstein5090]

I kind of love the idea that (Kr)Orks were genetically engineered in such a way as to match but never exceed their opponents as a failsafe against them bringing about the end of all other life in the galaxy. The Orks are almost impossible to extinguish and through attrition would ultimately defeat all serious opposition before regressing to a primitive state, unable to pose a Galactic threat. It was a really clever idea and would have been brilliant if it had worked.

[@toawing]

In the war of the beast Theo orks made a network of stable teleportation "gates" housed primarily in attack moons. And the elder compared them to infants, whatever the Krok were capable of their tech would make everything save necron and aelari tech look like toys

[@aname848]

You forgot to mention those Ork diplomats completely roasted the High Lords of Terra as well.

[@BuzzChronicles]

im 30 books into the hh and im bored with all the seriousness i want to get into orks where do i start

[@DanielSan1776]

>Reads a book series about a Civil War in the Human Empire >Complains there’s no Orks in it

[@jesusbustamante2793]

@Zach cash the war of the beast took place after the horus heresy, and yes it is good

[@ethanphilpot7643]

Look into Deff Skwadron Absoultely amazing artistry, and is hilarious and right orky to boot

[@marcjones9209]

Enuff wiv da black library ya gitz needs da blork libry

[@SlackwithMe]

Could it have been purposeful on part of the Old Ones? Build a perfect war machine that eventually dies off as they devolve removing a possible future threat to themselves?

[@Darksmirk1]

“ And thanks for watching ( ahh ) “... literally thought you were about to yell Waaaagh!!! I’d of laughed uncontrollably. As always very informative.

[@magicalsealand5076]

Personally i think orks evolve based on the technology prowess of others. With further contact of tau and primaris , orks have devoloped many new weapons like tellyporta pads and many many different vehicles

[@TheWildmanden]

I love how reserves is an advanced tactic for orks :D

[@fishpop]

The word "Krork" is a palindrome.

[@vaiyt]

It also contains ork both forward and backward, making it double orky

[@IsikPalion]

I think it’s not a devolution so much as the fracturing of Kroc collective as a whole into smaller Orc civilizations has led to a weakening of the Waag field into smaller fields less capable of generating Kroc of sufficient power and mental acuity. However if all Orc factions in the galaxy were to be united into one civilization again they would once again become the krok of old with all of the power, technology and mental acumen thanks to the United waag fields power.

[@Banksy122]

My theory is the de-evolution of krorks to the orks was part of the design. The old ones created them as foot soldiers and knew they could easily get out of hand after the war. To combat this they made then rapidly devolve to a mere pest, but if a big enough conflict arose they could re-evolve back into the krork, which we could see with the tyranids

[@darthplagueis13]

Well... One one hand, the Orkz might suffer from a simular issue as the imperium of mankind: Lack of innovation. It is very much possible that Orkz are simply not capable of inventing new concepts or at least it is extremely rare and as the milennia pass by some ideas may simply get lost because they aren't required or used. If knowledge is lost over time and no new things are invented devolution is bound to happen (again, look at the imperium). On the other hand Orkz simply may be more effective even on a lower tech level. It is a general universal rule that everything thrives to operate on the lowest energy level it can get away with and if the Orkz as a species have felt that they are perfectly fine with where they are at, anything on top of that is just an unneccessary waste. Maybe the Krorks simply have not been challenged enough to the point where they felt like putting maximum effort into their fights and if you don't have to bring out the big guns for a few thousand years you may simply forget how to do it...

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

In the war of the beast they innovated Extremely efficienctly and even constructed ships that didn't need to utilize the warp anymore and didn't even need to use the Old ones webway, they developed the massive mobile planetoids known as Attack Moons were capable of FTL travel through the creation of what were known to the Adeptus Mechanicus as "subspace" corridors, a hyperdimensional realm that existed "in-between" the Materium and the Immaterium

[@magnusthered5994]

Orks churn out new technology and innovations on a regular basis though most of them are bizarre and downright insane. Some of their weapons use the Warp in a way no human or eldar weapon does and they regularly come up with insane technology.

[@Kuwaitisnot_adeployment]

I can't get enough of Ork videos and you have tons...I love it

[@XtreemAlan]

Krork: ok I need to get this armored playing onto the stompa. Where did I put my welder and- Ork: SMASH IT

[@Rain..._]

This is your best video in a while. Very good work

[@Lyze]

Being that one of the big general themes of 40k is entropy, it stands to reason that the Orks are a race in decline as well.

[@christopherg2347]

A very common misconception regarding the rules of Evolution is that the more *complex* one will prevail. That is not the case. The stronger/better adapted one will prevail. And genetic simplicity does have it's own kind of strenght. For 65 Million years or so, the ork have been selecting towards simplicity in Warfare. Aside from the odd Eldar culling, they did not have a serious challenge or enemy to fight on other planets. Basically their Krork Strenght has Attrophied and given rise to a simpler, robuster form of the Orks. Of course now that they got the Whetstone of the Imperium - and the resurgent Necrons - they might select to be closer to Krork strenght again.

[@DeathInTheSnow]

As PBS Eons often say, evolution isn't just about getting bigger, stronger or existing in a current state. It's about surviving and filling in those ecological niches better than other species. Orks are hugely numerous and can continuously keep reproducing. They haven't devolved, they've just filled a certain role (or roles) better than others in their locales through adaptation. Any similarities they have with other species would be convergent evolution. The same role, if approached from a different way.

[@DemonicEngineer]

If Ork growth is affected by the number of Orks fighting around them, it makes sense that the Krorks were at their biggest when every single Krork in the galaxy fought on the same side during the War in Heaven. If they want to become that big again, i think Ghazgkhull is gonna have to recruit every single ork in the galaxy for his great WAAAGH!

[@tech-priestmagnusreparatum5328]

FIRST! BLESSED BE THE MACHINE SPIRIT! 000101000100 (OK second still BLESSED BE THE MACHINE SPIRIT!)

[@thehoodedteddy1335]

Eh, I prefer the theory that WAAAGH energy just makes their tech, ships, food, medicine, and strategies work regardless of pesky things like the laws of physics and common sense

[@liberator101]

This was my first video that I ever watched about 40k, thanks for getting me into this glorious masterpiece.

[@Deamon93IT]

I think it is due infighting, due to a lack of a predetermined enemy, and purges perpetrated by the other races (primarily Aeldari). Those two coupled together would stifle development by killing the bigger and more sophisticated Orcs and disperding their WAAAGH as a consequence. At the end of the day you could see the reason in how the Imperium keeps them in line, to avoid having to face something similar to the Beast ever again

[@Gormathius]

Well, Talker is now officially my favourite 40k character.

[@notalpharius3861]

Ork in old days: stronk and big also smart Ork this day: REEEEE

[@An_Imperial_Guard.]

Old one: No! You can't just ruin your genetical perfection! It was difficult to archive! Nooo! Ork: Ehehe Gun goes daka daka...

[@TheGreatMoonFrog]

They devolved because their greatest foe, the necrons, decided to take a snooze. They became a gork without a mork. No-one in the galaxy was strong enough to fight the orcs at a level needed to keep them in their prime. The imperium got them closer, the Tyrannids if the hive fleets are just scouts, would definitely get them there, and in such a situation, would the orks become even stronger than the krorks of old? Sure that one krork as an exhibit was 12metres tall, I doubt that was the tallest, and there's nothing I've read that suggests an upper limit to their fighting power given a strong enough opponent.

[@kitten2799]

It would be awesome to see the Krork in 40k in some way. Like a few krork apearing out of the warp.

[@Daimon-X]

In "Space Marines Battles: Overfiend" Trilogy(David Annandale) Orks from Waaagh of the Ork Empire of Octarius. Where bigger, stronger and more resilient then other orkoids. These orks where changed by the power of Kaela Mensha Khaine.

[@FinallyAlone]

"a waaaah field" Well one Ork out there is a waluigi fan.

[@asaenvolk]

Supposedly once the Orks had a peace agreement with Humanity, who is to say they have not been degraded by Chaos as well.

[@asaenvolk]

@Ethan Oden Nah, heck even resently they were confirmed to have been the Krok, and that the Krok were more refined (different sources for both). Heck their was even an ork (named Talker) who would use the old "Brain Boy Speak".

[@vksasdgaming9472]

Orks are species which thrives at challenge. Every challenge overcome by Ork makes it better at overcoming challenges. Bosses make other boyz able to overcome challenges. Grim darkness of far future has only war, but of relatively low intensity and that has kept Orks in their brutish, hoodlumish manners. The Beast was some kind delayed response to Ullanor Crusade as new and bigger boss was needed to fight against threat caused by then-Emperor of Mankind's Imperium. Tyranids might be able to force Orks to evolve further.

[@sledgehammer9966]

I just think that a table top army of krorks would be awesome Imagining this 12 metres tall ork like monstrosities ripping space marine chapters apart is just delightful :D

[@wargriffin5]

Who else wants to see Primarch vs Primeork? LET'S GET READY TO RUMBBBBLLLLLLLLEE!

[@jackssmirkingrevenge9365]

one of the primarchs fought and killed the beast, which isnt far from a primork. cant recall who though, perhaps papa smurf

[@stealthephant4098]

@@jackssmirkingrevenge9365 It was Vulkan; who RAMMED 'IM GOOD INTA ONE O' DOSE WAAAAGH GENERATORS DA GREENSKIN BOYZ 'RE ALWAYS TALKIN' ABOUT. It destroyed the planet. Aaaand the Beast then had five of them. Aaaaand Vulkan is a perpetual. So. Functionally the only change was planetary annihilation.

[@angerousangel9371]

Wow, didn't realise that Prophet of the Whaaa had a prequel ( I recommend it. It's a good listen). I got to find a copy now. Thanks for the info. Great vid

[@bobbaganooch2843]

In Prophets of Waaagh, Talker is the best part. Incredibly fun/short audiobook

[@TheTeddyIsALiar]

I like the idea that the only real difference between the orks and krorks is the scale of conflict they were involved in. That given a large enough WAAAAGGGHH current orks would reach the size and capabilities of the Krork, it's just that even given the scale of conflict in the galaxy now, it pales in comparison to the war in heaven,

[@phreakazoith2237]

Trazyn allowed Fabius Bile to have look at his collection? Gee, I hope he did not take something out of the original box.

[@gianlucaborg195]

You say devolution- I say end of a scourge- Either that or they are simply reverting to animal level, then to fungi, and then as food for the imperium

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

9:50 Holy fuck that is terrifyingly elegant for an ork!

[@therich17]

That was a great audio drama and that part showed the old one's design. They integrated a Shield system from an Imperial Knight into a Gargant. Oh, and they ate the pilot too.

[@40KTheories]

Yes, I mentioned the novella of it in this video ;)

[@helios0074]

Love it when you use the soundtrack from Final Liberation!

[@smoothseeker6196]

De-du? OI DIS HARD TA SAY!

[@al424242]

Loving the final liberation sound track

[@Alpacnologia]

i should point out that although its cause was unknown, the appearance of the Beast coincided (or maybe caused) huge steps forwards in Ork battle tactics, biology, size, *WAAAAAGH!* energy etc.

[@axelNodvon2047]

I HAVE A THEORY! What if the Emperor used some of these Mek Boyz genes in the creation of Perturabo? ;)

[@axelNodvon2047]

Another theory is that like how the Emperor turn baseline male humans into supersoldiers(Space Marines) for war, the Old Ones might have done the same for the Krorks and Eldar, genetically and biologically altering them or a portion of their species to use as weapons from their baseline form instead of creating them entirely.

[@boonk9732]

As the ctan are referred to as gods are they in fact just that and could if all the ctan shards belonging to any single ctan be reunited considering their age theoretical power and knowledge would they be able to annihilate the chaos gods and anyone else for that matter and wipe out all life in the galaxy for the lack of a better term “fun of it”?

[@zenoblues7787]

In theory it is possible, by killing all sapient life in the galaxy. The Chaos Gods feed off belief and and emotion. So if there is no beings with the complex beliefs and emotions necessary to feed them, they are doomed to starve themselves out.

[@boonk9732]

Zeno Blues is there the possibility that the ctan are also in tune with the warp in such a intimate and powerful manner they could simply will the chaos gods out of existence?

[@Glaaki13]

well its a bit hard to know as the C'tans and the necron are so "new" to the game and their lore hav changed a bit -but they might as the the old lore state that the nightbringer made all livinge creatures to fear death (except orks) and the that some say its only a shard of the Dragon the emeperor fought on mars and he could not kill it - but then you have the lore that the c'tans needs bodies or that they dont know how to fight the warp

[@boonk9732]

Glaaki13 I see so while the possibility of the ctan being tuned to the warp is extremely likely it’s not directly confirmed

[@unintentionallydramatic]

A single C'Tan is probably on par with an arch demon like Drachnien (sp?), but nowhere near the level where they'd be capable of killing off the entire Galaxy or the Chaos Gods for that matter.

[@derekburge5294]

I think the question is framed incorrectly... The krok have gotten smaller and probably much dumber, but is that a step backwards? It's important to remember that evolution isn't about *improvement;* it's about what *works.* During the time of the old ones, it must have been extremely advantageous to be huge and smart, but think of the resource cost of something that big. Not just equipment: food, time to develop, energy exerted for movement... A single krok was a huge drain! Take away the old ones, who we can pretty safely assume provided a lot of that initial investment, and your hulks are left to their own devices. In much of the same way the colossal dinosaurs gave way to much smaller mammals when the environment changed, I can easily see it being advantageous for the krok to get 'cheaper' in the post-old one era: smaller and dumber, but much more numerous and easier to maintain and replace. No, I don't think the krok devolved into the orks... I think the orks greatly evolved from the krok.

[@broutefoin]

Exactly! literally argued that exact point on another comment... Being huge is awesome for as long as your environment can sustain it, past that point, it becomes a liability, and nature tends to weed those out pretty quickly. There is also the added artificial selection pressure of competing intelligent species. If being smaller and less of an overall threat means that the whole of the galaxy isn't teaming up to eradicate you, then I would call that a legit adaptation.

[@a.gravemistake3061]

Up against the combined might of the Eldar and Krork, the Necrons were C'tan ducks.

[@TheAnalatheist]

I love that orks are actually so strong in the warp/memetically but they use it so bizarrely, because they don’t actually have the collective intelligence to put it to use for anything too useful.

[@animemanXLK]

My guess would be the old one's designed the Krork to need a kind of genetic maintenance at regular intervals otherwise they'd begin de-evolving into the race the Imperium today knows as the Orks. Since the Krorks like their Orkoid descendants were created to a warring race the old ones probably used this as a type of failsafe or to limit their destructive potential if the Krork ever betrayed them or if they survived past the old ones demise

[@shadowturtleyinyang]

my theory based on the war on the beast and the supposed size of the war in heavens is that orks and krorks are the same species just that to maintain krorks requires a sufficiently big waaagh as was no doubt present during the war in the heavens and the reason the name changed was just that orks speak so simply and that ork is just the simplification of krork

[@thegrumpymanlikestopaint]

I'd love to see an advanced Ork race were they stand upright as tall as primaris marines and as technologically and socially advanced

[@StarboyXL9]

"Shit! The Necrons are almost here!" "Send the Krork out, they'll buy us some time" "But they aren't ready yet! We still have to teach them about tech and give them a culture." "Just put it in them." "...What?" "Just put it in them, put it in their DNA." "Are you fucking mad?" "You got any better ideas?"

[@guillermosuarez271]

SUGGESTION; is Judge Dredd taking place in the same universe as Warhammer 40,000? Is Mega city One a low tech hive city? Is judge Dredd a Arbites? And are the Dark Judges Deamon princes. PLEASE ANSWER?!! I see a lot of similarities between the two and it’s driving me crazy. Love your videos, keep up the good work!

[@NetMoverSitan]

Painboyz...when a Ork shouts "WAAAAGH!!!" other sentient races run in terror, when a painboy shouts "SIRGIRY!!!" other Greenskins run away in terror. So Weirdboyz are a more recent mutation? | 4:06 - A psychopath, even by Chaos Space Marine standards. | The War of the Beast...they almost wiped out the Imperial Fists. | 8:29 - I can imagine one of those dressed like a clown saying "Why so serious?" | 10:40 - In other words, a Cockney accent (spoken around the east end of London) | The Old Ones are known as the Brain Boyz to the Orks, aren't they?

[@AsbestosMuffins]

I suspect if they were to fight necrons again in any substantial number they'd 'evolve' again. The orks seem to be a hard counter to whoever their major enemies are. They seem quite capable of holding their own against chaos even though they're wielding their own psychic powers, and their gesalt conciousness is on the face of it, a big hard counter to the tyranids and their warp shadow. they also would make it very hard for tyranids to take over as they don't have anything for gene stealers or other infiltrators to infiltrate, and reproduce about as quickly as the tyranids

[@amarketablesalmon6294]

I’m new to 40k... are there no goblins to slave away and work on their ships? Or be flung from cannons into the enemy?

[@jalpat2272]

yes, they called gretchin

[@DocWolph]

Thw Orks are a war machine without an "off switch", or maybe the old ones never got a chance to install said "off switch".

[@martinx3450]

As was evidenced by evolution of "the beast", the orks grow bigger to meet demands of potent adversary (in case of Beast, it was the Emperor, his primarchs and spacemarines). It is possible, that in the situation, when whole of the Necron race would wake up, the orks will grow big as krorks again. And another possibility - the studdied speccimen was Krork warlord, and simple krork footsoldiers would be considerably less big.

[@johnathonowens6516]

Im gonna quote the late great loyalist captain of the 3rd grand company of the Emperors Children Solomon Demeter. "Whoever claims the orks as being mindless savages, never had to fight them."

[@sk00b72]

To be honest. This is possible, depending on the Ork. For most clans it is seen that the warlords are large, but soon killed by an opponent nob or clan. The bigger the ork, the bigger the chances of him developing not only himself, but those around them both physically and mentally. For the ork diplomats, they had to be unlocked in the gene code of the orks when they reach a certain state of cultural development. This is what I think. And if they one day reach the level of culture and technology of the Krork, then they may have more strains of genetically gifted orks, that unlock depending how large their culture and empire grew.

[@demilung]

The huge krork in the collection probably was an outstanding individual of its species to b included in the collection. After all, 12 meters tall footsoldiers would be pretty cumbersome.

[@fumarc4501]

There’s another type of Odd Boy. If orks are not technologically developed, they communicate over long distances by LITERALLY SHOUTING! “Shouters” in more developed Ork societies become “Rockaz,” Ork musicians that whip the boyz into frenzies with loud deff metal bandz. I.e. War Bards...

[@hastonestanhope]

Since their social status has control over their size too, couldn't one of the reasons be that in the days of the old ones, the whole of the krork was one people. That would mean a lot more social classes and more on higher rungs, which would mean more bigger specimens. Just a quick idea I got while watching :)

[@gruszkaryszard580]

Brewbois ? Sounds awesome, yet something tells me I wouldn't like the Ork brewed ale :S Great video Remleiz! Orks may devolved, but it's more likely that They need numbers (kinda like ants colony ) to "generate" increased number of intelligent dudes and more advanced tech. Who knows maybe the Beast might be some sort of a Krork or a Prime Ork, fingers cross to see what else will happened to Ghazghkull, maybe He will be pimped up into Krork/Prime Ork :D

[@spike.strat1318]

Perhaps the tinkering of the Old ones os what gave us the present simpler Orcs. The Old ones would have recognized the threat that the Cron represented to the rest of the galaxy without something to keep them in check. So they dumbed them down, allowing the Orcs to live and even thrive without posing too much of a danger.( within a 40k perspective of course)