The Difference Between Pretentious and Profound

[@ScritRighter]

You might be wondering "Why didn't you talk about Epic The Musical, or Avatar The Last Airbender?" And you see, their involvement was symbolic. If you had a brain and were paying proper attention to all of the symbolic messaging in my video, you would know that I actually didn't just forget to talk about them when I wrote the script, but that I am actually a very smart writer who intentionally left them out so that I could talk about other things instead. If you don't understand it, you probably just don't have a high enough IQ to properly enjoy my video. 🤓

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

I was smort enough to see that 🙃

[@charade539]

I see you there, Emperor's New Clothes'ing us. Well I'll not fall for it! I accept my stupidity!

[@ScritRighter]

@@RenderingUser Symbolism is neither plot nor storytelling. You're wrong again and I have not confused the two. I love character driven stories, and in fact, the book I write is primarily character driven. Plot is a part of storytelling just like symbolism is. And plot is not always necessary for a good story. Just like Symbolism.

[@Bruh_bruh-d7s]

@@ScritRighter think people should start on kizumonogatari

[@a_naotenhonome780]

Symbolism should always be the icing in the cake, not the cake. Because what's the point of having just a good looking cake if the taste and the texture is just messy

[@ERAA-on-YT]

Sometimes is more like biting a well decorated cake that resulted to be just glaced cardboard. Like "this is not an story but the author's thoughts and commentaries slapped over a fictional word with no substance".

[@a_naotenhonome780]

@@ERAA-on-YT yes its something that looks nice and is even fancy , but ultimately it doesn't have any consistency to hold it on

[@nykom]

No, symbolism can be a cake, you just gotta be good enough at making cakes, have you seen angel's egg? I love every second of that film, pure cinema!

[@nykom]

​@@ERAA-on-YTAlso , why would that be a bad thing??? Have you ever heard of poetry, at all?

[@ERAA-on-YT]

@@nykom The topic isn't poetry, pal, it's audiovisual productions. Basically worldbuilding, storytelling and characters. Those three elements need substance and symbolism can't be all they get to fullfil it.

[@coolcommcollect]

This video perfectly describes how I feel about Neon Genesis Evangelion. Like, it's a pretty good anime, but I literally had to watch a two hour video essay to understand it.

[@wanasfa]

same, and i was wondering why i didn't like it

[@immortalpickle3104]

Eva is funny because the Crosses is just for cool aesthetics and not religious symbolism apparently I think the religious allegory to Jewish Kabbalah as well is just fan made head canon lol (I haven’t checked Eva but I would assume if there was smth esoteric it would be from an East Asian tradition rather than a comparably niche tradition from Europe-MENA)

[@coolcommcollect]

@@immortalpickle3104 that is why eva, while being a solid anime, is kinda pretentious

[@chezmix64]

Haven't watched the video yet but I saw this comment and I have to say, I'd argue what makes the symbolism in evangelion so cool as a story telling device isn't that it's "deep symbolism". It's that the story itself involves the characters being involved in such complicated existential nightmare shit and so portraying it from their limited human perspective is such a cool and unique way to tell the story. It's not "oh and then all this crazy metaphorical stuff happens" yeah there are deeper symbolic and metaphorical things going on for sure, but it's much more like "oh and this crazy insane hard for the human mind to comprehend stuff happens, and so we will present it as crazy insane hard for the human mind to comprehend stuff"

[@sub.sa.3058]

​​@@coolcommcollect that was obvious from episode 1. Since then there was a focus on showing things without an obvious explanation, they did take it very far the last part of the story I admit. Which in the last movie (Rebuild 3.0+1.0) they finally explained everything The End of Eva left unanswered, and to me was an admission of this. The Gendo backstory alone is worth watching all of the Rebuild movies for. It literally explains all the major missing pieces of the story of og Eva.

[@nykom]

All my homies love symbolism, I love when a story speaks through human emotion using a wide range of images, even if it makes the story harder to understand, the process of understanding the story ends up being as fun as watching the story in the first place

[@allbthatmom2153]

ig if youre a film critic but then your taste becomes too sophisticated to enjoy simple things

[@nykom]

@@allbthatmom2153 bro, you can enjoy simple things and complicated things like, I can enjoy some funny ahow or slice of life anytime I have even aquired the power to analyze seemingly simple stuff and finding symbolism where there isn't

[@clevername5776]

​@@allbthatmom2153not being able to enjoy simple things is the opposite of being truly sophisticated. if someone thinks their taste us "too high" for simplicity then id say they are up-tight.

[@JonCrs10]

This is not what symbolism is to begin with. Its allegory. Watch Jonathan Pageau if you want to understand actual symbolism and how, if anything, symbolism IS narrative itself and the people who suck at symbolism are just people confusing the pattern of allegory for being meaning itself.

[@pr0xi_zura.]

When Symbolism works, it enhances what the storytellers want us know about their character/world/group/species etc. When it doesn’t, we get Han Solo’s Dice.

[@Superdude-rd2gs]

I don't think monogatari is that hard to understand, it's literally just teenage boy helps girls with issues with the twist that their personal issues cause supernatural phenomenon to happen. There's also the fact that bakemonogatari is probably the weakest season and can be hard to understand sometimes because it references kizumonogatari which came out after it.

[@dracotitanfall]

Bake is definitely not the weakest season lmao there are much worse ones

[@yeahbuthow2005]

Wow! you're so wrong about everything you said it's funny

[@preparedelite936]

​@yeahbuthow2005 I know this comment might be rage bait, but could it also be a joke that you make a statement but don't elaborate because of your username?

[@Dark_Peace]

Look Scrit, you often make good points. And i keep watching your videos because i think they're interesting. But there's always a point when you end up saying "this is because this group of people is like that..." "People like that think that..." And i'm just rolling my eyes every time. Generally, it's not like the behavior you're describing is inexistent, but it comes off as reducting over the viewpoints people have on Twitter. Sometimes, like here, it just makes me go "ah, classic Scrit moment", but other times i think "this guy is blatantly ignoring a huge part of a discourse that's been going on for ages. At this point, it's willfully." idk how you make research for your videos but maybe you should reflect on your biases or turn off twitter 'cause that won't help you understand actual talking points. It's not about this video only, but the channel. I say that because i think it drags down the quality of overall good videos. I hope it doesn't come off as hostile.

[@bmt_y_]

I couldn't agree more

[@gilgamesh310]

A lot of KZbinrs base videos around what people on twitter and social media say. While it’s true that the people on twitter represent a very small portion of people that exist and their opinions, it is likely those that are more likely to watch the videos than general normies, so it makes sense why KZbinrs do videos rebutting their points. The number of people that believe symbolism is very important, is numerically high too, even if it’s proportionally small.

[@fabbae215]

GOOD CRITICISM IN 2024?!

[@ScritRighter]

What would you prefer I do?

[@Dark_Peace]

@@ScritRighter thx for considering my comment. Well, idk how you do your research so idk what you should improve. Generally, when I conduct research on a community, I avoid post-based social networks like Insta or Twitter and look in topic-based social networks instead. Won't say Discord and Reddit are better than Reddit but they have the advantage of being able to jump into the space of a community and see what members say about every related topic. You can even see how the opinions change over time. When researching the neurodivergent community, I discovered some people prefer say "I have xxx" and others "I am xxx". There's a whole set of arguments for both and it changes over time. Then I look for KZbinrs within the community because it's long form content. But chatting with people about stuff is the best method to do research. I have to read the book "Misbelief" for college, it's about researching on complotists. There's the important concept of having a "scout" mindset instead of a "fighter" mindset in order to avoid being biased. And then just ask yourself "hey, is that comment about those people really important for my point ? Does it increase the risk of misrepresentation and by consequence, lessening the trust in everything else I'm saying? Is it worth the risk ?" Yeah it's a question of risk because I get that research takes time and videos don't edit themselves. In conclusion, if I happen to strawman you during this exchange, you're probably more likely to disregard everything else I say and stop reading. Well it's the same thing with video essays. That's how I see it, idk if it helps.

[@Izaiyusa]

I think the biges issue with the monogatari series is that the word play cant really be fully translated to other langue without loosing part of its meaning

[@redi.c.e.6046]

Could you explain what that meaning is to me then, _before_ I ever watch it, in case I get to it later?

[@drazenpoduje6168]

​@@redi.c.e.6046 The thing with Monogatari is that it is full of japanese cultural references and jokes, which you wouldn't understand without editor notes unless you were japanese or knew a lot about japanese culture beforehand. Some of it is not really integral to the plot however.

[@veturwinter]

monogatari is so easy to understand what the fuck? a large portion of it isnt even symbolism

[@Bruh_bruh-d7s]

Well he was talking about bakemonogatari not the rest, if he watched starting from kizu maybe he would have liked it

[@aryapratama5648]

He making as if Monogatari series have hard to understand story

[@dreamsalongthepath7377]

I bet if he read the books he would have a much different opinion. The anime if pretty good, but its way more cryptic than the source material.

[@nomado-sensei]

What do you expect from a guy who says "I don't understand Monogatari but I think it's pretentious." It's like me saying "I don't understand physics but I think it's overestimated." I clicked the video just because I was curious whether the preview was a joke. Turns out the joke is the author of the video.

[@straydoggo5973]

I couldn’t disagree with this video more strongly. Not every story has to be literal I think symbolic is just as valid (perhaps even more in my personal opinion) as literal storytelling. A large part of art is that it reflects our own human feelings and literal storytelling doesn’t always cover the nuances of human emotions. When I first watched evangelion I had no idea what was happening and the plot was confusing and despite that it still resonated with me in a way that most other works of fiction didn’t because it spoke to a part of me that couldn’t be described with words. I think “symbolic storytelling” can be interchanged with “emotional storytelling” (as opposed to literal storytelling) because it’s more focused on emotions rather than what is literally happening

[@straydoggo5973]

To add on to this symbolism in fiction is used for the same reason metaphors are used in language. When you say it’s “hot as hell outside” you’re not literally describing the outside being a fiery brimstone place like hell you’re describing how you feel because sometimes describing how you feel matters more than describing what is literally happening. To use another anime as an example revolutionary girl utena is an anime that is completely incomprehensible story from a literal standpoint. What it is about is fairytales and childhood dreams. When we are kids we are enthralled by these stories or princes and knights rescuing princesses that we dream about them. In the anime there is this huge inverted disneyesque castle hanging over the sky which is a completely absurd that can’t happen in real life. But what it describes is that feeling of fairy tale dreams looming over us completely out of reach, the characters duel each other for a chance to enter that castle until *spoiler alert* utena becomes disillusioned with the fairy tale dream and disappears from that world

[@johnlennon3107]

I think symbolic storytelling can be emotional but not interchanged. Symbols don't have to emotional you just interpreted the symbols of eva with yours. Symbols just need to be understood and often there is a deeper cultural context needed to understand symbols whether they be religious, geographically related (like a folktale) or some other kind of social phenomenon (like a meme or something). All hes saying is there should be a baseline of a cohesive and engaging plot so that the symbolism can when understood can enhance the foundation. Often times the symbolism is relevant and understood by the audience in meta but it doesn't translate to the characters narrative, so it seems like the characters making decisions that are nonsensical to fit symbolism that is irrelevant to their own lived experiences which is reasonably considered questionable if not bad storytelling.

[@FairyAngelBel]

@@johnlennon3107 can I politely ask for an example of such story ? Because I can name tons of symbolic narratives that have a simple plot and yet are still engaging : Cinderella, Alice in wonderland, Snow White, the little mermaid, little red riding hood, puss in boots, Pearls and snakes, Rapunzel, Aesop’s tales etc. A story without a plot doesnt exist and while relying on symbolism those story don’t magically loses any coherence: Them being entirely symbolical simply means that none of the events told should be taken literally. That’s as simple as that. Symbolic narrative have their own logic so even if it doesn’t make rational sense we still manage to follow a thread of logic. Symbolism doesn’t make a story more confusing sometimes it even makes it more clear without having to say it out loud it all depends on a writer’s skill to use symbolism.

[@charlie8829]

@@FairyAngelBel You notice how with all of those stories theres actually something personal being said instead of just slapping symbolism on just for the hell of it or to the point you can’t comprehend it? Symbolism I think can be the meat of a story if it’s used well and actually says something. There are also so many other things that goes into making art. All of those things have to work together for the symbolism to work properly. And like you said it’s simple at first glance. If your plot and story are muddled your symbolism is muddled with it.

[@FairyAngelBel]

@@charlie8829 that wasn’t what I was trying to argue. My point was that symbolism doesn’t make a story confusing and can stand on its own since it is (unlike what the video try to argue ) a form of storytelling. Much like environmental or visual story telling. Arguing that symbolism cannot be a replacement for (literal) storytelling is like arguing that visual cannot be a replacement for (traditional) storytelling. Hence my examples which are all symbolic narratives. My issue with the video and a lot of the comments is that they portray symbolism as this thing that’s very esoteric and abstract and that can make a plot needlessly confusing when it doesn’t, it’s here to add meaning and is surprisingly easy to write. I have yet to encounter a story or plot rendered utterly confusing by the sole use of symbolism as a main storytelling element Most story who only relies on symbolic story telling usually have a very simple plot whereas more complex plot tends to use it in a more restricted way and favor literal storytelling. I do agree that wanting to use it solely for looking cool and deep and not out of genuine desire to tell a story is a wrong mindset but if the symbolism fails that’s not because it was used but because it was used badly (that’s to say associating the wrong symbol to the wrong meaning) which in case can only happen in regards to the literal plot and that can apply to anything such as wanting a cool scene to happen solely because it’s cool even though it doesn’t make sense in the context of the plot so that isn’t specific to symbolism That aside I agree with your comment

[@realcloverchan]

I'll topple the bulk of this video with a one liner: what if I just like symbolism a lot, and seek that in stories I read/watch/whatever, above all else? Is it that crazy that someone could find enjoyment in something whose sole existence is to be interpreted? I'm not alone here clearly, stories that tell themselves mainly through what they mean and represent are interesting to some of us, there's an audience for them, and people who wish to make art like so. You know we exist, you mention us. But like, whether you get it or not is irrelevant, because you clearly don't value that kind of story and/or that kind of element as much as you value others, you're not the target audience, and that's completely fine. Something you touch on is that things like Monogatari are incredibly hard to get into because you may find yourself needing to invest serious time understanding what it all means, and that's completely fair and could be a good critique of stories that are like this, but that doesn't mean they're bad at storytelling, in my opinion at least, that just means it isn't your kind of storytelling clearly. Because people have figured out Monogatari from what I can see, maybe there's many interpretations but that's the beauty of art, we all see something different, we all have our unique perspective on things, and all are equally valid. There's other things I could say about this topic and your seemingly narrow perspective on it but other people have said it just as good as I would say it I feel. I will say tho, one of the most pretentious thing someone can do is say that something else is pretentious, it's never a good look to use the word ngl, it's used by many in this pseudo-elitist, some in a straight up elitist way, it just shows immaturity facing art in general in my opinion.

[@realcloverchan]

After further reflecting, it really is evident that you lost interest in symbolism when your family member told you that you should've just told your story. The reality is, what she was telling you was, to be commercially viable, you should tell your story instead of making it an interpretative piece. The thing she forgot to tell you is that a story that revolves around its symbolisms can work, but there needs to be a foundation where those symbolisms take from, which nuh uh, it doesn't have to be a story (as an aside, ofc this'll make it more niche, meaning it'll sell less unless you make your niche work, which is rare right, meaning whatever you do, someone inside the world of publishing will always tell you to be safer with it, more focused on what more people like, take that as you will). The best way to make symbolism work is to center it around a theme, or multiple themes; it's the guy being an alcoholic by picking up an extra beer pack, but it's also perhaps his friend coming from a dark ally to meet him sniffing with his nose because he's a drug addict, a theme of addiction and maybe surpassing it eventually, by him not buying the extra beer pack when going to the store again, or the friend coming from a luminated place and saying he's taking some medication for his seeming cold or something. The focus can still be in these moments of symbolism, of hidden meaning, and you can bring these characters to their cathartic end within those themes still, and if you do that it'll be good storytelling because you're applying it intentionally and well, and executing it well (in theory of course). You're almost there tho. You say that there can't only be meaning, and you stand correct, but you do fail to understand no storytelling can be with only one element, or technique, and that these stories that seem that way are not, they have other elements/techniques they're using, as it requires a whole kit to make it work, heavy symbolism is just one of many things you need to make a certain kind of story, and you may not actually be into it, and that's fine. Because like, not everything is for eveyone, it happens. Sorry if I ever sounded rude in my comments, take care.

[@realcloverchan]

Also, I'm such a yapper gg

[@rixdespo9144]

@@realcloverchan I agree with you 100%, I yapped like crazy under this vid too BAHHAHAHAH. I think another point in this video that just defeats itself in the same sentence is saying "If a prerequisite for understanding a story is googling it, then maybe it's not much of a story at all." but if you can find someone explaining the meaning of a story on google then that means that person themselves understood the story without googling, which means it was never a prerequisite at all.

[@ScritRighter]

uhhhhh I still use symbolism, and I never said it's useless. I said it's not storytelling on its own. I even listed several examples of symbolism which still exist in my book right after I said my family member critiqued it. The lesson for me (And the audience of this video) wasn't to get rid of Symbolism, it was to build the story and actually tell it to the audience instead of jerking myself off at all the deep symbolic and metaphorical allegories I had in my head. You need a solid story as the foundation for your symbolism, or else it's only a story which can be enjoyed when someone other than you (the writer) explains it to people. If you like symbolism, you'll love my book lmao.

[@rixdespo9144]

@@ScritRighter Wouldn't that just be for a different audience though? In my opinion at least, there are some people who prefer that kind of abstract thing, while others don't. Since the people that do write those long essays and explanations for those works exist then I think it's safe to say that it's a story that can still be enjoyed on its own, probably just by a different audience. So I feel like the lesson is more write according to your intended audience and be sure you're aware who you're targeting with your work? Curious to know your thoughts

[@veryredfumoze]

Omfg someone just missed the entire point of bakemonogatari im gonna fucking cry Because like Its a really simple story in and in retrospect and the pretentiousness is there just to be fun flavouring Pay less attention to the symbolism and more into the characters themselves and you'll see what we mean

[@reymysterio13__50]

The fact that the only discernible trait he manages to grasp from Araragi is that he is a "child touching loser" shows that he probably "watched" the show on 2x speed on the background.

[@danielellis6327]

The Reddit squad has arrived 😂

[@veryredfumoze]

@@danielellis6327 nonono,, im much worse Im a twitter user

[@theplaguedoctor6271]

The characters aren't allat If someone missed the entire point of bakemonogatari then that is kinda on the author. You've said it's a simple Story,so if the author made it somehow confusing then they're a bad author i guess. 🤷

[@yeahbuthow2005]

​@theplaguedoctor6271 Nah, it's just that there are some extraordinary stupid people like you. Peak fiction is not supposed to be enjoyed by everyone I guess

[@KonaKonaKaabisteru]

This does quite remind me of my relationship with Evangelion and as of recent times, Revolutionary Girl Utena. With former, I happened to start with the manga as I found the anime bit squeamish in it's 1st episodes - the manga would end up recontextualizing or explaining better some characters' backstories or motivation alongside reconstructing their personalities to be more proactive, which made it nice first-time experience in it's accessibility. I'd watch the anime later (which I find pretty good too)... One thing I tended to get impressed during this time has been observing certain very deeply invested fans of Tumblr that tended to collect certain recurring elements in the characters or setting and find pretty plausible symbolism in them. While I admire their brains for these kind of observations, I sometimes feel this might have given outsiders this impression that Evangelion's mainly appealing to very pretentious or "nerd-beardy" folk - or even *GASP* the show itself tries to be so as well (TBF, it does sometimes, especially whenever Rei's involved) It's odd thing to content as Evangelion's usage of christian symbolism had long been confirmed to be a merely cool flourish on the major elements seen in the show, in spite of places like EvaWiki trying to speculate meaning to them in context of how they're used in it. My experience with Utena could be described as me wading through a lot of it's allegorical/symbolical aspects to a point a middle arc of it didn't entirely stick with me due feeling pretty muddled in means of what was going on with the main antagonists involved in it (Black Rose Arc) - and some interpretations I got from certain pivotal scenes near end, I found out I got pretty wrong as I read on their true meaning later on wikis + fandom itself. I feel this might make Utena a bit confusing experience here and there for not-symbolically-literate people, even if it's been interesting to revisit the show again with some of these explained symbolisms/allegories in mind. (Now, the story and character developments for main chars of Utena isn't that hard to follow admittedly...) I guess this makes it all the more good to know that Ikuhara had said that people can take away whatever interpretations on the show they see based on their own experiences or viewpoints - though as of late watching fortunately driven-off hack breadtubers like James Somerton interpret it in a way that mainly seemed to reinforce his misogynistic views while missing even the most blatantly spelled-out storytelling in the show reminds me that some bit of putting two things together should be exercised alongside trying to meet a show at least in it's level. In the end, I feel symbolism really is there to_ enhance_ our experience, interpretation and/or fondness to these shows' story, characters and so on ultimately, as they can make them grow more in our minds as much as the newer discoveries of nuances in their storytelling. Guess I could compare it to spices/flourishes/toppings in cooking - can't really sell a cake that is mainly giant pile of frosting.

[@rand0md00d3]

Both rewatched these two recently. My experiences with both Eva and Utena is that people had to tell me what was going on because I was just getting tired of the repetitive formats. Also, most, if not every single characters in these two shows were just characters I hated and could not relate to in any way shape or form, so I just couldn't enjoy myself. The obssession with talking about existential dread and crises were just not my cup of tea and the fandoms made my experience worse for me. With Eva I definitely saw that the christian elements were just there for rule of cool, so imagine little christian here trying to explain what's actually in the Bible and that it doesn't make sense with Eva and people are like : ''f*ck off it's symbolism, it's my interpretation!'' With Utena it's that no matter how many times people explain that it's metaphorical and the characters are all victims, their personalities are just so annoying and unbearable to watch on-screen that I end up not caring for what it's supposed to mean because I don't enjoy the surface-level stuff. When symbolism becomes a justification as to why the characters are unbearable, it just doesn't appeal to me. Imagine people's shocks when I tell them I like mecha and magical girl shows but don't necessarily like subversions of these genres. I guess the thing with symbolism is that sometimes it's better to just say the thing because it's more honest to the consumer rather than hiding the good stuff (Twin Peaks could've been peak if it had just stopped with the constant symbolism)

[@usernameunderdevelopment]

Idk I like it Also none of the the things u mentioned about “being confusing” related to me I could get it just fine, plus all the dense conversations are just entertaining and when I get a reference to something else in the show I feel enlightened, the characters feel fleshed out and I could look at their super symbolic sides or whatever and that’s always a treat but I don’t need to in order to enjoy it, part of what I like about it is it seems so simple yet so…full of ideas and interpretations, I don’t really care to know those interpretations too much outside of the few I caught myself, but I think the story lies more in these characters as individual people, not really set up for us as a story in general too much, but more like these are individual people with their own stories to tell. That is what I find interesting about The monogatari series, I don’t need it to be normal to have good stories to me, plus the apparitions and folklore are cool af. And the wordplay is fun (If I find out what it means, im a killer for that even just normal puns lol) So yeah, I guess mostly what you say either doesn’t relate to me or just doesn’t matter to me like how it does to some people. Plus I didn’t get it a lot either and still don’t, but the stuff I did get, I rlly liked. It was kinda carried by the cool visuals for me and soundtrack as well for those specific parts I didn’t get. I hate to be one of those people, but I guess you could say what carried it for me in those times was ✨VIBES✨(I really do find the dialogue enjoyable tho, it paces well for me and it’s just so appealing to me, even if I ignore the deeper symbolism that it may contain which, how much symbolism does it even have? Did that much rlly go over my head? Whatever, I still appreciate it cuz to me, there was no problems in the first place with how the characters talked). I don’t wanna sound like those people all saying you misinterpreted it either, cuz even if they’re right in some ways or not they should accept that this series just ain’t written for some people. Ok I’ve written to the length of the whole Monogatari series now so now I stop lol Edit: that creepy stuff is overboard tho, but I don’t think Araragi is all just creepy tho. I like that it can really shock me and make my jaw drop but yeah, it’d be better off without it I’d say.

[@ham-n-jam]

Naw man, the cool abstract visuals and unique dialog style in Bakemonogatari are entertaining as hell, even if you don't grasp any deeper meaning straight away. I feel like the overarching plot and themes are pretty easy to understand?

[@ham-n-jam]

also the whiplash of Araragi being like the coolest guy ever 50% of the time and then this fucked up degenerate creep the other 50% - to the point where it's like for fuck's sake monogatari, this is a new level of sus shit - is just funny LOL, but yea understandable if you're too weirded out by it

[@Medlair]

I wonder what you think of Who's Lila?(videogame) and Twin Peaks(series) They're two surreal and abstract stories that have good use of symbolism, I haven't watched Twin Peaks but Who's Lila? is realy self explainatory with its symbolism, you got even characters discussing them and it leaves you wonder what their existence as characters even is, which that too has symbolism that give you an idea but without ever giving a clear specific one. I also love how the game slowly teaches you to overthink, I didn't need any guide because the writing has built in me the methods I should've used to understand it and kept doing it till the very end. The story itself guides you to think by your own in a way that you are able to understand so you can get what characters are talking about and I think that's so cool, I swear that I haven't touched a single piece of content about it, like not even a theory, it's like the characters in the story are already discussing with you

[@luckyisfree775]

I think “stories” needing “plot” is an old fashioned idea

[@RookieREX]

honesty, good idea! why not try something new and be light on storytelling in favor for creating atmosphere and memorable experiences

[@Fullmoon9092]

@@RookieREXAvatar did that

[@RookieREX]

@@Fullmoon9092 which one? the blue alien one or the arrow head one? either way, they both do have substantial story so i dont think you get what i mean you know how some video games have sorta an inscrutable story/plot right? yet they still evoke feelings and moods from other parts of their compositions

[@ScritRighter]

I have a video on episodic storytelling and how stories can be told without a plot.

[@blackcatpirates8134]

Bro wtf does that even mean? Without plot there's no story

[@hypotrain]

real life soyjak manages to fool gullible audience into actually believing that a nickelodeon show and two children's movies about spider people are better written stories than hitchcock films and the monogatari series instead of admitting that he doesn't understand the concept of intertextuality

[@ScritRighter]

Not beating the 'pretentious' allegations I see. More power to you.

[@TheONLYFeli0]

he never directly states that actual hidden meaning, symbolism and theming is less important than surface-level plot

[@ScritRighter]

@@TheONLYFeli0 The definition was symbolic, you're meant to figure it out yourself and google it 😔

[@blackcatpirates8134]

I think Kung-fu Panda is a better movie than Once upon a time in America

[@drazenpoduje6168]

I think your criticism on Monogatari is misplaced. Even though the different supernatural incidents include allegories, it is not a story centered in "symbolism" as you claim, because you are not intended to deduce a second meaning in order to understand the story, you are supposed to be following the *themes* which are *explicitly* being talked about by the characters troughout each arc. Monogatari is not a story about some hidden meaning, it is a story about themes that are constantly being thrown at your face. You are not supposed to retrieve any hidden meaning from the snail girl's design, she simply looks like a snail because it matches her oddity type and that's funny, what you are supposed to understand is how each character deals with the themes presented in each arc.

[@drazenpoduje6168]

Instead of analyzing symbolism, you are supposed to be following the themes that the characters confront during each arc. It is a story driven by it's themes, which are the entire reason why the series is fragmented in so many small arcs. Monogatari ditches a chronological narration of the entire plot in favor of a fragmented narrative where the different themes are treated individually in their own arcs by exploring the perspectives of the characters that are confronting those themes at different points of the plot. You are not supposed to find the plot by analyzing allegories, you are supposed to find the plot by paying attention and putting a puzzle together.

[@ScritRighter]

The symbolic meaning of the snail isn't 'because it looks funny'. The symbolic meaning of a snail is that they are meant to teach valuable life lessons. The lesson in that scene being to reach out for help because not everything can be done on your own. It could also be meant to symbolize the Sazae-oni who has a story where they steal the manhood of several sailors for which she only gave back upon an exchange of gold. This reflecting in the emasculation of our main character and pointing that our main character is actually the one who needed to ask for help, not just her. And of course, the themes of Bakemonogatari are 'self-help' which makes the symbolic meaning important to understand for appreciating the themes. However, if the themes are self help it's lost in a sea of overstimulating jump cuts and nonsensical dialogue. And me knowing all of this doesn't make the story better. That's the point of the video.

[@drazenpoduje6168]

​​​@@ScritRighterWhat I meant by her design "being funny" is that it matches the type of spirit she is, but you are not supposed to necessarily retrieve all that meaning you mention from her design alone. The "hidden layer" of symbolism that you can retrieve from Hachikuji "being a snail" is not essential to understanding the story, and most of what you are mentioning is already either explicitly stated by the characters when discussing the situation or implied by how oddities work in the story. The themes of the arc are already being explored in the character's dialogues, any layer of symbolism is just extra info, at this point the show is clearly just not for you.

[@ScritRighter]

@@drazenpoduje6168 Yes I agree, but once again, my critique is that I do not understand the story. Therefore the symbolic meaning and themes of the story have no foundation to stand upon. I can admit a story is not for me, but I also think nothing about Monogatari would be worse if they just told a more coherent story with all the themes and symbolism from before. Build the world, show off character motivations, fix the dialogue, etc.

[@drazenpoduje6168]

​@@ScritRighterHow far did you ever get into the show? I think by Second Season (Neko White, Kabuki, Otori, Oni, and Koimonogatari) all of that gets really well developed, but I guess is pointless to tell you to wait until it gets better.

[@whovianmaverick6348]

I think a good story can come from symbolism. Mainly because what the plot and story depict are coherent with what it’s trying to tell you. This makes the stories more valuable because a lot of the time they are either cautionary tales or reflections of our own emotions, which is always important. Not saying everything needs to be symbolic but movies that want to be symbolic definitely have a place in cinema. It’s just I agree we need a moderation of simple plots and plots that want to teach us. I’m of the argument that movies should make us think rather than entertain since we live in a world that feels like its generations are devolving in education and wit. Nevertheless I completely understand where people are coming from.

[@MageBurger]

I’m stealing your approach from your generalist video and typing without watching the video first or reading comments. So symbolism is something I’ve been hyper anxious about when writing because I’ve seen a handful of people on the internet that have made it seem symbolism is a twitch reaction kinda thing. Oh, this image is here, lemme make a 40 minute video about what the whole story will be etc It’s a ridiculous anxiety and I’m learning to get around it. What I understand is that storytelling is the art of showing us a series of events in order to grasp the emotions, feelings and complex dynamics of all of the elements (people, places, objects) in the story. Everything automatically becomes a setup and the whole story will be weighed by what the payoff is and how it’s handled. When I say everything is automatically a setup, I mean we literally don’t know anything about anything at the beginning, we can only take what we are familiar with and guess from there. A literal symbol on its own with no explanation or relation to our individual past becomes meaningless and potentially confusing because all we can do is imprint our own meaning onto it, which is great for mysteries but only if handled the way it should. I think I like the box in FNAF 4 for being this endless mystery, but I get why something like that might be unpopular. We want at least some things to be paid off for the experiences to feel meaningful. Too much confusion can just feel like a waste of time. Yep, that’s all I have to say.

[@Cohow]

Pretty bold of you to assume Monogatari doesn't have a story, even though its name is the translation of story in its original language. As a japanese, the storytelling of Monogatari Series is easily one of the best I've ever seen, and even if you can't understand everything (since a lot of jokes rely on cultural references and word play with the japanese vocabulary), other aspects of the work like the great character relationships, impecable cinematography and well thought soundtracks are also what make people like it that much. I can assure you that, while it definitely has lots of symbolism related to the japanese folclore and spirits, Monogatari doesn't rely on it, and for the most part it should be easy to understand, even if you aren't from Japan. You trying to show how "confusing" it is is just nonsensical considering it's usually more of a straightforward series than many others, it just looks that you didn't care enough to pay attention in the dialogue so you could understand it better. While I can't deny its flaws, like the pedophilic nature (even though it's used as a joke, considering the protagonist dates a girl of his age and even marries her later in the novels, on the other hand, even supposed victims of his "pedophilic preference" end up doing the same as him in other parts of the series, making it even more clear that it's all a recurrent joke) and also the excessive amount of dialogue (Studio Shaft didn't want to cut many informations from the novel, that's why there are a bunch of lines, which is a problem with adaptations from this type of books). Even with all these mistakes, the storytelling definitely isn't one of them, at least from my experience watching it.

[@lialiiz]

I have no problem with resorting to paratext if i can't get the symbolism, but yeah, good storytelling is nice. I just think that there's value in symbolism not only for the storytelling, but in the symbolism itself. Although, I guess that's a pretty different way to interact with art.

[@Anonymous-bl8df]

This video reminded me of my friend I used to work with. They work with their story for years but never published it. They spent years rewritting and asking help from multiple writers and everything feels directionless when I read it. They want to be unique and have such a strange ideology which reflected in their writing. I told them about it and let just say they got pissy about that. It's just sad to see someone wasting their time doing something that probably won't give them the reward they expected.

[@FairyAngelBel]

Oh boy where do I even begin So firstly : you do not at any moment properly define what symbolism mean, you just explain it as being one way to story telling Secondly : you don’t explain what you mean by « a good story » Thirdly : you are confusing the plot with the story (those two are different the plot is part of the story but the story is more than the plot) Lastly : your example of « I used to write symbolism too » with the man who lost his wife and child is bad because it wasn’t symbolism Symbolism has two definition. One more specific refers to an artistic mouvement while the other is more broad refers to using symbols as a way to represent ideas and qualities. The later definition apply to communication itself. If you are familiar with Ferdinand de Saussure he wrote how languages is made of symbols called signifiers meant to represent the meaning that which he calls signified. From the moment we speak we use symbols, and we use symbols for everything. Why does the dove symbolize peace ? Because we associated this bird with this qualities. Symbolism was always a part of story telling. Always. It started with allegory, paraboles, myth. Stories whose plot seemed nonsensical from a rational point of view but that made sense when you decipher the signs. Famous works uses it : think fairy tales, think romanticism. Take the metamorphosis which is a gigantic metaphor of a man turning into a cockroach in both figurative and literal sense.

[@Монс-й1ь]

The amount of hot takes on this channel is enough to accelerate global warming

[@FairyAngelBel]

Every story is symbolic to a degree . The characters are symbol, the events are symbolic they are all signs of a bigger message the writer is trying to convey because using imagery and symbolism is more appealing then simply telling things outright There is a reason why show don’t tell is such a revered narrative technique and symbolism is literally a pillar of show don’t tell Again the mere act of using words relies on using symbols to deliver a message that has to be deciphered because words can have a figurative meaning. That is what symbolism is about and that is why a story needs it, because the entire story is meant to convey a message, stoping at the surface level of the story aka the plot, the literal meaning and saying that « symbolism is used well if you can still enjoy the story without having to understand it » is implying a great misunderstanding of how symbolism works: symbolism is the key to access to what the story actually means without having got say it out loud which is why with all due respect I think the advice given by the editor to just say things outright is misplaced. This empaverish the writing but this is also missing the point. Editors’ job are to help makes the story sell and feel appealing, they think of things more pragmatically And again, the example you choose isn’t symbolism because a character drinking a beer isn’t symbolic If you wanted to convey this through symbolism you should have used a metaphor combined with stream of consciousness « he entered the bar, he sat, he asked for a beer. His eyes lingered on a painting showing the sea. Without understanding why he extended the hand towards it, he could feel the water in his hand. The water slipping from his hands. It tuned into a sea. He was drowning into an ocean of alcohol : champagne, eau de vie, wine, beer. Her dress was floating, her beautiful wedding dress decorated with white rose. His son’s ball was tormented by the flux of the sea. Jewelry, toys, the wedding ring, the bear he offered to his newborn son, the family portrait, similing happily, never to be seen together again

[@FairyAngelBel]

« A maelstrom of sadness was submerging him, raving everything, the portrait was dancing between the waves, his wife and son crying tears of beer.. beer… beer… he snapped. He was still at the bar. He commanded an extra beer. He just wanted to drown into it and forget about this damn portrait » See, this is symbolism because it uses the images of the sea to convey the idea of drowning which can ci to the reader the idea he is trying to drown his own sadness after the death of his wife and son and the reader can even understand from this that they died because they drown. That is symbolism and that is more effective than the man simply telling us about how he lost his wife and child. I really think that you didn’t thought this topic as much as you thought you did, and just saying if your English teacher told you this was how great story telling worked than there might be a reason for that. Lastly I think you made it abundantly clear that you did t like Monorgatori which is fine, what is not however is that you never explain why it’s symbolism is bad you just expect us to agree with you that it’s « pretentious story telling » because you said so, you do not provide any example or detailed analysis of why it doesn’t work and just makes the story nonsensical which brings another question in regard to how you view stories It feels like you view them as being limited to the plot and that they have to respect a certain logical way to make sense. And finally, this « the audience shouldn’t have to do research arguments » is missing a point regarding stories : stories are made to make you think about reality, even if it’s at the cost of challenging you or making your confuse: I totally get not everyone enjoys this type of content but that itself isn’t a sign of bad quality. You said yourself that a story should have more to offer when you revisit it, symbolism can be a way to achieve it but why would the reader even revisit it if he feels like he understood everything in first read ? What is the point ? Sorry for the long comment but as you can see I have quite my thoughts on this topic.

[@shakejumbo4700]

said pretty much what i wanted to say thanks

[@koibubbles3302]

I sort of agree here. It's not like a story HAS to make complete sense without symbolism, because if that were true a lot of stories have elements in them that really don't make sense without symbolism. There are scenes in many movies that do not move the plot forward but serve as foreshadowing or symbolism. But I think what Scrit is talking about here is when the entire story is comprised of these foreshowing or symbolism moments. At which point you don't even have a story to provide context for the symbolism.

[@Emiruuu]

nah me personally i disagree

[@ScritRighter]

Shit, I've been owned in the marketplace of ideas. How could this happen?

[@Emiruuu]

@@ScritRighter I'm simply just that good

[@ScritRighter]

@@Emiruuu I never admit when I'm wrong, but this is just too good of an argument. I'm cooked. You got me!

[@casmachinaa5223]

Sounds like somebody lost an argument to an eva fan on reddit lmao

[@skandaram7960]

As an Eva fan myself, I can guarantee you none of us win arguments

[@sergiudana8716]

Great video. I understand now that people that dont like Bakemonogatari are only surface level humans with not a ounce of depth to their characters. THANK YOU FOR Makin me understand that you're struggling on your endeavor and as a consequence instead of Givin the benefit of the doubt that there's something good there you slander and Makin obvious your answer is i didnt get it so is bad. SURELY i jave a responsibility now to spread this holy not biased opinion ww and credit you for your philosophy and not pretentious video which make it more ironically perfect in line with Monogatari 🎉🎉🎉

[@ScritRighter]

You're not beating the pretentious allegations, unfortunately.

[@gensokyodumpster8386]

thank you for this. you have truly spoken the words in my mind better than i could have articulated. Evangelion has forever confused me because of this large fandom. and when i first watched it i just realized its just the diary of the creator being spoken through the characters rather than creating a coherent plot that can be followed.

[@FunkyGoofyGoober]

It's funny how much fnaf was coming to mind throughout the video for me.

[@rand0md00d3]

fnaf do be like that

[@blippleblop]

I may not agree with everything he said, but I still feel like I learned something new. That's the reason I watch this channel.

[@SomeoneCoolAsHell]

I do agree that symbolism should be subtle addition to maybe make characters more coherent and most importantly make it exciting to write/design (quite a big part of character design is symbolism). However, it shouldn’t be needed to be understood in order to be a plot point; I think that’s where over symbolistic stories get complicated because not everyone will know what a lot of symbols represent.

[@DarkClaymore555]

It's funny because I agree that people often try to sell stuff like symbolism/lore as "good storytelling", but for me the examples from the video are actually the opposite: Bakemonogatari was fun while Dark Souls was terrible. I found Bakemonogatari engaging due to the colorful characters and interesting situations, without ever trying to think about any deeper symbolism. It had an "interesting story" for me just based on the events that occurred on the screen. Meanwhile, Dark Souls felt completely devoid of any story whatsoever. You play as a random nobody who doesn't even have a goal, the bosses are random creatures you came across in random areas (that you travel to just because you unlocked them), and even the environments make no sense (ex: why is the boss of a swamp area is a fire spider woman???)

[@ScritRighter]

She's a fire spider woman because she is cursed in the same way that Izaleth was. She is not the boss of the swamp as much as she is the guardian of the lava area and one of the bells. There is a lot of enviornmental storytelling in Dark Souls. From the scorch marks on the bridge warning you about the dragon's fire, to item descriptions telling a fragmented tale of what once was. For example, the swamp you mention (Blighttown) used to be a mining town. It was likely where undead infested with blight were dumped. Forced to mine titanite even as a plagued blight poisoned the lands around. Quelaag guards her domain of lava and fire against the blight of blight town. Quelaan had sacrificed herself to create a webbed barrier and staunch its spread. That's the general history you can gather when you look at the environments, item descriptions, and enemies of the area. Dark Souls is a game which asks you to be observant and to retread the same area multiple times. It incentivizes you to take some time and look at things. However I recognize some players simply want to complete the game and just run through everything. That's fine, but the great thing about the game is that it's enjoyable even if you're not trying to piece together the story.

[@DarkClaymore555]

​@@ScritRighter For me, it was just a nicely crafted dungeon in terms of challenges and layout, but otherwise, nothing else about it made sense in terms of story or theme. I dunno how anybody can expect the player to care about cryptic lore details when the game does not even have any plot or characters. I didn't even know WHY I was in Blighttown, it was just the "next area I unlocked" so the only excuse to go there was to progress the game (... after I accidentally skipped past it earlier in the game and killed like 2 other bosses from way ahead) So, it was like an additional slap to the face when even the themes of the area didn't mesh together. At that point, it felt like there wasn't any thread of logic to follow in the game. Of course, that is unless I go to look up lore info to try to justify this whole setup... except, why should I? The game itself is supposed to tell its story. I have zero incentive to play lore detective before the story has proven it's actually well-written enough for me to ponder about it.

[@ScritRighter]

@@DarkClaymore555 a lot of the experience is also the endearing characters and their own self contained stories of struggle and tragedy.

[@spacemonke2937]

Characters being "like real people" is a modern meme, and so is the idea that events in a story follow real causality or common sense. What you call ""symbolism"" is just how stories are supposed to work, and hiw they were written for ages. No character is supposed to talk like a real person, go chech Shakespeare, Goethe, Tolkien(if this comparison seems odd to you, know Nisio has an absurd degree of mastery over Japanese, to the point half the story is untranslatable word puns and kanji wizardry, lots of nuance lost there) If Monogatari filters you I would love to see your reaction to something like Utena. You don't need to read a reddit textwall that is probably wrong either way in order to understand the story, you just need to take the characters at face value. Nisio is first and foremost a Mystery writer, and as such he is a master of foreshadowing. And because Monogatari is 99% dialogue so that's where the foreshadowing is, everything a character says is important. You also need to consider the Ki-Shou-Ten-Ketsu model of Eastern storytelling , here the Ten stands for the point in the story where things are suddenly turned around ( there are two snakes, Mayoi is the ghost, etc..i) and ofc all of these are properly foreshadowed. The idea that Monogatari has no plot is blatantly ridiculous, it's just that plot is based on information given out by the characters but that you choose to ignore. Senjougahara giving warnings to Kaiki about the "demonic charms" of Nadeko is a good example, in the real world that'd be just their personal opinion, in a story it is foreshadowing and Kaiki must suffer the consequence. I could be here all day tl;dr: YOU GOT FILTERED because you are trying to be smart about and opinionated about it. Also the toothbrush scene is true art.

[@VideoSayetGame]

Listening to you, I can understand that you complicated yourself by looking for a symbolism that is not there, at least in the way you are looking for it. The story is quite simple and it is designed so that you simply go with the flow of what the teenagers on screen are doing. Bakemonogatari is specifically a set of stories about teenage problems that are not represented through different paranormal creatures and that in each story we try to solve them. However, Bakemonogatari is not the beginning of the story nor the end. It is in the middle and it exists so that we just go with the flow. If you really want to fully understand what the work is, in my opinion you need to see more than just one season and create a video talking about how you didn't understand a story just because you watched it looking for something that isn't there, it is a way of showing me that this video really wasn't necessary.

[@ScritRighter]

Nah. I will continue to be a hater.

[@VideoSayetGame]

@@ScritRighter I didn't think you would stop being one

[@AStixMatism]

I found myself subbed cuz this man made some great points on a lot of his videos that not a lot seemed to agree on but I did I think this video though personally is a bit of a skill issue. A show does not need an overall plot to be coherent. Monogatari is an anime I've compared a decent amount to Gintama. Multiple different arcs, multiple characters that "seem to speak in riddles that have nothing to do with the story" but in reality it does have something to do with the story, has to do with their past (revealed in other installments of the monogatari series), or are simply puns or kanji-based wordplay. Saying monogatari tries to use symbolism to make up for bad writing is like saying frieren tries to use the viewers' empathy through sad/beautiful moments to make up for bad writing. I can understand it can be complicated in terms of cohesiveness of the story, but as you said in the video, this series isn't for everyone. As for the entire creepy weirdo stuff yeah that's definitely a thing LOL That's just Japanese manga and LN writers being Japanese manga and LN writers lol

[@rixdespo9144]

If I were to compare it to eating food, I see the message behind a story as the nutritional value while the plot is the flavor and texture. Naturally I get your point that if someone is just being fed nutritional slop paste that is technically good for your body but the taste and texture is horrendous I wouldn't consider it good food/story. But I also think if you just consume for the flavor and texture without looking at nutritional value then it's just junk. I do think this is acknowledged when you say symbolism is like layer 2 while the story being told is layer 1. I have the belief that the layer 1 should be enjoyable enough on its own but if someone wants to dig deeper then the layer 2 should be there to be gotten into. In a funny sense I agree that symbolism isn't storytelling, rather I believe that symbolism IS the story, while the plot is storytelling (how the story is being told). The story is the idea and storytelling is the execution of that idea and how it is conveyed. Naturally no matter how good an idea is, it will only ever be as good as the ability of a writer to express that idea properly. However if a writer focuses on how to tell a story without enough substance on what the story being told even is then I think that's a bigger problem. Because in one someone has a story they don't know how to tell, but in the other someone can meander on about their writing without realizing what exactly is the story they're trying to tell. In both of them the writer lacks something but in another they're just putting the cart before the horse. Worrying about how to tell a story without being clear on what the story they're wanting to tell is. There's a reason when discussing elements of the story both plot and themes are discussed, and it's because both are vital to a story. I believe that storytelling is ultimately just another form of art, and therefore of expression. Both the message being expressed and the way it is expressed are vital to conveying it well. However to me personally, a heartfelt story with something they genuinely want to convey, even if it is expressed clumsily, means more to me than a shallow story that doesn't focus on the message it wants to tell. In a nutshell I think if someone focuses only on symbolism then they need to remember that crafting that message into something enjoyable and digestible, or turning that nutritional food slop into something both delicious and nutritious is important. But if someone focuses only on making a story without any thought on the message being expressed and conveyed then they've missed the point completely.

[@rixdespo9144]

I fundamentally disagree with you saying that focusing on the messaging being expressed rather than how it's expressed is "pretentious writing". In fact, I think it's the most sincere form of writing possible. Calling it pretentious and how it's talked about sounds like it's being labeled as some "intellectual" thing meant for only "smart" people. But I think that couldn't be further from the truth. Stories that put more emphasis on that message are usually the most heartfelt. They don't know how to perfectly convey what they feel but if it's done properly enough then people will grasp that message, and something that is so sincerely expressed is bound to have some people resonating with the thing that's being told. I think the part that ticked people off the most is this, because lots of people including myself resonate with these stories where. Granted, the way they tell this story is clumsy and sometimes off, but because they are sincere in what they're trying to say we can resonate with how the author feels. If anything is insincere to me, it's writing that focus so much on the plot that they forget that it's a vehicle for the themes and message that's being told, because it just comes off as shallow. Calling people that really resonated with and were inspired by messages in stories as "pretentious" and making it out to be some sort of intellectual thing is just a bit off the mark in my opinion. It's just as easy as asking yourself why you found that a story spoke to you so deeply and struck a chord. Passing it off as some sort of intellectual superiority thing just discourages people from actually thinking critically and reflecting on their feelings and why they enjoy or don't enjoy certain things, and that's already something that's becoming less and less common. People are often too used to mass speed consuming media that not a lot of people stop to think and reflect about what they're consuming. It feels like when something really inspires you to be better and means something to you and then someone tells you "stop being pretentious, it's not that deep". I'm not surprised some people are put off by that. Lots of people with myself included hold a lot of stories close to our heart because of the message being expressed, so making it seem like a focus on whats being told is because of some desire to seem intellectually superior rather than just people really finding that a work struck a chord within them feels like a gross misrepresentation of why people love good themes. There are some points I find myself agreeing with and some I don't agree with but I don't feel like tackling them one by one because I'm just not too interested in a long discussion as I'm a bit busy currently. So instead of formatting this as a response to points I just tried to genuinely convey my own opinion on the same topic. I hope this makes sense. Side note: I also think that the pinned comment is a little vitriolic lol, I understand why some people are annoyed, especially those who place great importance on themes.

[@rixdespo9144]

I think it's a complete misrepresentation to say that the people who enjoy stories that aren't that good at conveying their message are doing it to stroke their ego, be part of some sort of club, or to feel some sort of superiority. You mention that a lot of people only grow to appreciate and enjoy the story when they have another person that isn't the writer interpret and explain the story for them in a way that is more concise and easy to understand. I think that these people definitely exist, and sometimes when someone is stroking their ego about understanding all the nuances and symbolism behind a story, it is someone that had it explained to them and then want to feel like they're part of the club of people that did understand the story and so they are very loud about it. After all, a lot of times those that understand a story the least want to be a part of the club that does understand it and so they are very loud about it. But this completely removes the fact that if you have people that had to have the story explained to them by another person to understand it, it implies the existence of people who did understand the story themselves the first time. The people who wrote those explanations in the first place, and what other reason would someone want to dig so deep into analyzing and interpreting a story if they didn't absolutely *love* and *resonate* with what the story had to say? The reason why there are so many people digging incredibly deep into stories and analyzing every part of it is because these stories spoke to them on a personal level and so they want to spread that enjoyment and discuss how the story made them feel. If someone just wanted to stroke their ego then they could simply look into what other people have already explained and then shallowly parrot the things they say and the explanation they provide in order to feel good about themselves, but they don't. The reason people look more critically and deeper into stories is simply because they loved the story. So naturally some people would be a bit ticked because the love and passion they have for a story is being passed off as "just wanting to be part of a club and to stroke their ego". When something speaks to you so personally that you feel compelled to share the emotions it made you feel and the happiness it brought you it feels bad to have other people say you're just pretending to understand it to feel important, because it invalidates the meaning and value that it brought them and how it moved them. If you say that the prerequisite to understanding a story is to google it, then that implies the existence of people who did understand the story and put those explanations up to be googled in the first place. Which means that it was never a prerequisite in the first place. It just means that some people found meaning in some things that others didn't and they want to discuss and share the meaning, feelings, and emotions that it made them feel because it's important to them and they truly love what the story did for them. Just because someone wants to be more abstract in how they convey their story doesn't mean that they're trying to cater to some intellectual crowd or stroke their own ego for being clever about hiding meaning. It often is just because the way it is conveyed serves the story. In Frieren, the core theme of how the passage of time affects people isn't something that's confined to the fantasy setting of Frieren, but the symbolism of Frieren being an elf opens up lots of more creative writing avenues for people to explore and express these themes in ways that you wouldn't be able to without this sort of symbolism. These kinds of symbolism are chosen because they're a way to express that message in so many more creative and novel ways and perspectives that couldn't be achieved if you wanted to just be direct about everything. The symbolism serves the message that the story is trying to tell. Those are just my 2 cents on the matter.

[@RowboatFleet11]

Always make sure that every character is a symbol for the importance of kindness, especially the villain. Bonus points if they’re also a queer allegory to make up for the lack of gay people in your story originally.

[@nobodiesbusiness2731]

Are you being serious?

[@RowboatFleet11]

@@nobodiesbusiness2731 100% I am very rarely a sarcastic person

[@charlie8829]

Real asf like I was in a stop motion short class we had to come up with the story, everyones ideas was basically “it should represent so and so” and never was about what the story’s about. We eventually came up with something good but everyone was fighting over the story at first

[@bordeialexandru]

I'm genuinely baffled with how many people's takeaway of this video is you saying "symbolism bad", when you're basically just saying "symbolism is a narrative device, and not the story itself". Good video btw

[@ScritRighter]

Yeaahhhh it happens sometimes. "Windows are NOT a car!" "Um, actually, windows are an important part of a car. The Windshield is necessary for a car to be enjoyable, and the back window is important for visibility." "I don't disagree with that, but you can't make a car out of windows." "How dare you. >:("

[@FairyAngelBel]

@@bordeialexandru because he didn’t said that symbolism was not the story he said « symbolism is not storytelling » which is wrong. Unless he conflates story telling with the story which is a different problem

[@yangxiaoshlong]

​@@FairyAngelBel Bro why are you under every comment, take a break, go touch some grass

[@FairyAngelBel]

@@yangxiaoshlong ? Do I have no right to comment ?

[@yangxiaoshlong]

@@FairyAngelBel you do but with the amount that you're doing it, it just comes of as extremely pretentious. Im not saying that you are but the way you're doing things makes it seem like you are

[@furyberserk]

Bakemonogatari was a start of putting that kind of storytelling in the main stream. It used to only be movies or certain ambitious stories, but the anime made it common.

[@sergiudana8716]

9:27 I get it now Dude all the hatred os because he is projecting of what he didn't learn

[@elsalaxander2888]

Symbolism is more insightful than this. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@elsalaxander2888]

It's cool in entertainment media but that is not it's point.

[@ebubeike7010]

Good video, I think some people need to understand this topic because minimal symbolism is a typical argument used to discredit the story of some shows

[@WhatsToBeDone]

POV: me seeing the thumbnail Holy crap weather report

[@FranciscoCastillo-ot9ib]

I think you are partly right but if the story is ultimately conveyed the form in which you present the story must be entertaining not explicit. Monogatari is entertaining and all the people that has seen it understands the important part. Avatar is a more explicit story and very good story but there are times were the weaker story parts are made weaker by being too explicit.

[@Naknave]

Epic the musical mentions… I lose it at all the little details they slip into their songs but sound insane when I go to my family breaking down maybe a handful of notes

[@ScritRighter]

It's so hard to find someone to hyperfixate on those songs with.

[@patchering]

nah

[@ScritRighter]

Damn, you win.

[@ardidsonriente2223]

Proper symbolism doesn't need explanation. It works naturally, mostly in a subliminal way, and ehile some great creators do plan and integrate symbolism in their works intentionally, symbolism can manifest even when the author themself isn't aware of it being there. Then there is the forced symbolism, that can be a bad intentional use of the tool, or a sad accident, or, even more often, a result of an explanation by a third party, wich creates something from nothing. Finally you have symbolism interpretation, wich is a different layer, often called hermeneutics. The story can be crap, have poor natural symbolism, yet have a beautiful hermeneutic landscape that can be interpreted and understood with enough work, the right external information and acute attention. It is like a secret message. Story and hermeneutics can work toghether, in parallel, or despite each other. In general, I despise heavy hermeneutics that forget to work with the story, even when they are good. Its like writting a mediocre book with a beautiful poem that only appear if you take the first letter of each chapter. IT IS PRETENTIOUS.

[@FranciscoCastillo-ot9ib]

Yo diria que Monogatari es una historia que se cuenta muy oblicuamente, pero en ningun caso diria que es simbolica o extremadamente simbolica. Evangelion es muy simbolica y tiene un simbolismo psicologico, pero Monogatari expresa el contenido todo el tiempo por eso hablan tanto los personajes 😅. Creo que no necesariamente a todos nos gustan las series que son oblicuas (no comparten su sentido de la forma mas directa posible). Las series que son como rectas generalmente son pensadas para el público joven que quiere que los sentidos sean expresados de forma directa y es entendible que aun entendiendo las series oblicuas el sentimiento hogareño o comfy nos lo den las series rectas en su storytelling.

[@symtrey]

Man, you make such great videos. Thank you for keeping me motivated through these hours of drawing my manga. Consider me a loyal subscribe, Scrit.

[@issacthompson330]

I agree. The best media can be enjoyed with your brain turned off and overanalyzing it at the same time.

[@ViviBuchlaw]

Baffling that you don't see the hypocrisy of complimenting the Souls games in the same breath as critisting other stories for relying on symbolism. Having Gameplay as a focus isnt an excuse lol You can do both

[@harryfleutv666]

You have a cute character avatars ❤

[@AnimaidanFrames]

This is slowly becoming my favorite channel

[@supermonstars]

Brother, honest advice: please learn what the words symbolism, allegory, and subtext mean, and the difference between them, before embarrassing yourself in a video essay. Because this video gave me second hand embarrassment.

[@erikwirfs-brock2432]

Seriously, lack of precision makes this video essay useless and pretty cringe

[@albinoadinross]

What’s your opinion on chainsaw man?

[@ScritRighter]

pretty good. There's a part in the manga that was kinda boring, haven't kept up with it, but I'll come back one day.

[@Arcanist_The]

I am going to be as nice as possible, this video was well. Confusing. I do get what you try to say, but it took a lot to get there in a very confusing manner. It was made of tangents that didn't just work. Not only that, the content left a lot to be desired. Firstly, just because you need to "google" a storys hidden meaning or read reddit posts to get it doesn't make a story bad. Those stories weren't made for that. They were made so the audience could think about them as well as to experience them to fully get them. Plenty of stories require a second or even third go around to understand their full meaning. Furthermore, most of the time a story doesn't need to be understood entirely or at all. You don't need to understand every single piece of symbolism to appreaciate a story, just the broad strokes are enough. Heck you don't always need to understand those. I don't think most people understand what Angels Egg is about, yet people still can enjoy the movie just fine. Same with Cat Soup. There's also the fact that your thesis is rather, limiting. It only really applies to mainstream media, or mainstream media adjacent stuff. Plenty of famous and influental stories either are entirely abstract or allegorical, where their meat lies in the symbolism than the concrete story itself. Lets for instance take Jonathan Swift's famous novel Gullivers Travels. Yes, on the surface it is a story about a man traveling to silly countries with little men and talking horses. It does have a superfical story. But that superfical story serves to give social satire and commentary on society of the time it was written. And when I say commentary I don't mean in way like say, Hunger Games is a commentary on late-stage capitalism, Robocop is about police violence or Starship Troopers is about facism, I mean *the entire story is a commentary*. All the three stories I mentioned can be enjoyed on their own without relizing the themes, ideas and allegories it presents. But Gullivers Travels wasn't intended for that. gullivers travels was intended to be read as a satire, as an allegory where everything stands for something else, than a story that exists in and of itself. Granted, the storys ability to do so has lost itself as time marched on and thus has become just " a story" but that was never the intention. In general, your perspective favors heavily "plot-focused" stories that have a really concrete idea or concept, and leaves stories that are focused more on characters and themes unaccounted for. Since they tend to be more symbolic and allegorical, especially if they are older or on certain mediums. A good example of this is the play Waiting for Godot. If you look at the surface its just about two guys waiting for a guy who never comes, isn't that dissatisfying? But the story isn't meant to be looked as a concrete plot. It's meant to serve as an allegory, be a story about wasting your life waiting for something that never happens than actually living it, and pondering the life you could have had. Ultimately telling a story using symbolism isn't a "worse" than telling a story with other means with added symbolism. It is like if the only art worth making was realistic art, and any more symbolic or abstract art was completely worthless. When it's not. Abstract and realism are two different styles used for different means, but both are equally valid. Same is with storytelling. Telling yourself that only "typical" stories are worth giving a damn and symbolic stories are not is very limiting for the type of stories we can tell, and the ideas we can express by them. Some ideas work better with symbolic storytelling while others don't. Like you said, storytelling is a tool we use how to tell stories, so if some stories need more abstract methods to be told there isn't anything wrong with that. I am going to be as nice as possible :please experience media that isn't mainstream or mainstream adjacent alternatives and expand your horizons. I am begging you to expand your horizons beyond popular movies/anime, popular alternatives for mainstream media, nerdculture stuff and indie shows. Read some classic books, watch some classic movies. Go experience a play or an opera. And above all else, consume media that isn't just made in america or japan. As an european your opinios tell me you haven't experienced the litterary and theatrical classics we have made. If Bakemonogatari is "too hard" for you, I dread how you feel about works by Kafka, Don Quixiote or Belladonna of Sadness. Heck, I even dread how you will feel about Evanelions second half or the Utena movie.

[@Arcanist_The]

Also the Dark souls point didn't really support your video at all like how can you use it as an example of symbolism done well in the story and then argue. Heck, the example actually contradicts your point as you argue Dark Souls tells it story through gameplay than typical storytelling. Which shows you can use one tool to tel your story. So why doesn't that apply to symbolism as way. If symbolism is a tool like you say (and I agree with) why can't you use the entire tool to tell the story.

[@Mik-s2l]

My favorite Hitchcock trope is "the hero has his head down eyes up"

[@DLGanimator]

Imo, symbolism is what gives stories value. It can be smt beyond just a story, it can be a lesson for the audience that can improve their look on the world, people or whatever you want to tell with your symbolism. I disagree with the thing that symbolism isn't a way to tell a story (a.k.a. storytelling). I think that symbolism is a hidden story that ties with the "visible to anyone,, story. You could just say that SATBK is just a story about sonic becoming a great knight that beats an evil witch. But in reality, it's a story about a girl that has thanatophobia and wants everything to become immortal. But, since sonic is a symbolism for the nature itself, he doesn't allow her to make everything last forever, cuz' that's just how the nature is. This fictional universe that literally locates in book will die, everything is going to die, everything is going to end. But, sonic is also a symbolism for the good in people, and so he says to her: "Merlina... Every world has its end. I know that's kinda sad, but... That's why we gotta live life to the fullest in the time we have. At least, that's what I figure.,, A well done symbolism can be like a dlc that improves the main story. I really do think symbolism is a way to tell a meaningful story.

[@danielellis6327]

This is honestly good

[@charlie8829]

Yeah but at the same time you can’t just put random shit together and say “ THAT SYMBOLIZES SOCIETY” or something like that, it’s got to make some sense. It’s like putting a dot on the wall and calling it art just because someone makes up a bullshit allegory

[@BlueJGilbert]

The way you feel about that anime is how I feel about Kingdom Hearts. It's so convoluted I can't even begin to understand it after 1 and 2

[@drazenpoduje6168]

Kingdom Hearts and Monogatari are very different though. In the case of Kingdom Hearts, the plot is convoluted but the narration is mostly straightforward (at least within each individual game), but in the case of Monogatari, the plot itself is actually pretty straightforward but it gets fragmented and narrated out of chronological order, in order to focus on each character's arcs individually. Also I personally really like both of them, even if they get kinda ridiculous sometimes.

[@nightlydata2181]

@@drazenpoduje6168 As a ,mono fan but not a KH fan but still knows a bit bout that franchise. This is a very apt explanation I feel

[@djroscurro9859]

5:35 THAT'S WHERE THIS CAME FROM???????

[@nightvision999]

Dark Souls is good storytelling but Bakemonogatari is too hard to understand? I politely disagree.

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

Symbolism bolsters a good story to make it become deeper, but can't support poor writing any more than a good character can

[@dreamsalongthepath7377]

Monogatari series fan here: read the books before dissing it. The anime is pretty good, but it’s WAY more cryptic than the books. Watching the anime you understand next to nothing, so I find the books much more enjoyable. Plus, Dialogue is way more enjoyable in a written format.

[@jackstain8948]

Has to be the worst monogatari analysis I've ever seen. Monogatari isn't even a story which depends on symbolism like eva or something + bake is the weakest part of the story.

[@theplaguedoctor6271]

If bake is the weakest part of the story and you're supposed to start with it Then maybe MAYBE that's the reason why most don't complete it cus the start is shit

[@jackstain8948]

@@theplaguedoctor6271 Saying something is the weakest part of the story doesn't equate to me saying it's bad, matter of fact i lt probably isn't the weakest tbh

[@Phoslin]

zaregoto pfp

[@Phoslin]

@@theplaguedoctor6271i disagree with bake being the weakest part, theres much more weaker parts in mono

[@asrieluniverse9873]

The first 2 minutes of this video and it's thumbnail tell me absolutely everything i need to know about Before even watching it one can tell the things within won't be of very high quality by the title's implications on the 3 works in the thumbnail and the red and green outlines on them, i can't speak for monogatari as i haven't watched it but JJK I am familiar with and to imply that JJK is lacking in something because of it's use of symbolism is deranged to me considering Gege puts more time, thought and research into every last piece of symbolism in JJK then this person probably put into this video But the far greater stinker is the implication that even a show as good as TLAB could possibly be better written than any of Alfred Hitchcock works, Hitchcock is the master of symbolism for a reason every single word in every single book, show or movie he's made have more though put into them then you've had in your entire life and have more meeting in them then your whole existence But far beyond that the whole of this video stands on the foundation of an utterly idiotic belief that symbolism and "story" or "plot" must and are separate, to return to JJK the entire manga every event that takes place in it is nothing more than a vessel for the real message of it's narrative one that most of those who read the manga every week don't know or understand because all they can see is how many Dismantles Sukuna is shooting out at the moment because to them that's the story to all those thousands of people the story of Jujutsu Kaisen is "two pink haired people really hate each other and want the other dead" or "Gojo Satoru is really hot" because that's the plot that sells millions of copies every month, but for one to know the real story Gege wants to tell you have to look beyond the power system or Gojo's muscles you have to look at the symbolism behind hand signs, the names of characters domains, the objects that have attention put on them or even something as small as Sukuna using a kimono ment for women because they have much bigger sleeves to fit his extra set of arms If you can't understand a story because you can't grasp the symbolism that's not often a fault of the person writing it but your fault for not actually trying to understand but just giving up 5 minutes in because you thought that the snail girl having a design feature that indicates she has something to do with snails is super important and significant when it's literally just clever character design and then getting mad that you read to into that one so everything else went right over your head

[@arlequinelunaire418]

I'd argue The Color of Pomegranates (1969) shows a story built on pure symbolism can work. However, that movie's very much the exception, not the rule, and I definitely agree that symbolism can't save a bad story

[@TeiwazTheGoat]

I subscribed the moment you told me it turns gay.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

I'm of the philosophy that Plot is overrated and Plot centric writing advice like in this video is what truly stifled creativity. I think that stuff you wrote before your family member corrected you is probably far more interesting then anything you're writing now. On the subject of highly abstract Anime you chose to pick on Monogatari because it's easy to get with hating on, all you have to do is repeatedly virtue signal your disapproval of all the Loli content and your safe. But a lot of what you said sounds like what some Anti-Intellectual hater of Serial Experiments Lain or Revolutionary Girl Utena would say. To this day I don't understand the plot of Lain, and that doesn't bother me because I'm not watching it for the Plot I'm watching it for the Vibes and the Themes. With Madlax I don't believe there is a logical way make sense of the Plot especially of it's finale, but I don't care because by that point it's running on pure Rule of Cool and that's all I ever needed the show to be.

[@ScritRighter]

...You have a problem with me not liking the sexualization of child characters?

[@jonathan9044]

because those don't tell an actual story, you said you're watching for the vibes and theme, not the plot, plot is what's happening in a story, if you don't know what's happening or nothing is happening then it's less of a story and more of a moving art piece then a story, as vibes and themes are things you get while looking at art

[@tinybonestudios7332]

​@@jonathan9044yea exactly

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@ScritRighter No, I only have a problem with people Moralizing about Fiction.

[@JazmenCarolina]

​@@Kuudere-KunThis has got to be one of the dumbest takes out there. Fiction literally influences culture, ideals and human behavior. Fiction is literally the reason why people think sharks and piranha are bloodthirsty killing machine when in real life they rarely attack and are often very afraid of humans. Its also the reason why people think radioactive waste glows green when it doesn't or that rabbits eat carrots when in real life carrots kill rabbits due to the high sugar content. The biggest example of this I can find is how Dante's Inferno convinced entire Generations that hell is a place of fire and brimstone when in the Bible it's just a place devoid of God and nothing more. Not liking something because it panders to weirdos who want to diddle children is a very valid reason. Japan is a country plagued with pedophilia and uses propaganda to pretend like it's not. Children owning rape whistles that they wear on schoolbags. I vaguely remember a politician publicly admitting his lust for middle schoolers. Japanese schools and other public areas needing to warn people of hidden cameras in bathrooms doesn't come from nowhere. Let's not forget the companies that allow you to order a custom sex doll that can be modeled off of pictures of real life children. To believe that pandering to pedophilic degenerates isn't a problem is delusional. But hey, at the end of the day its just greedy Japanese companies easily exploiting these people with this trope because people who think like this are whales and will defend/buy this media no matter how bad it is.

[@idkman948]

Always a good day when Scrit drops

[@gilgamesh310]

I’m going to have to disagree on the Souls games, despite agreeing with the overall sentiment of the video. Most of the story that people heavily praise is just stuff they made up. There’s far too many gaps in the story and even the item descriptions themselves. Most people need to watch vaatividya’s videos to have a clue what’s going on, and he needs to get info from the developers to ven manage to make the videos.not to mention all this is background lore and not even plot. I do think there are some good characters in the series, but I can’t advocate it as great storytelling anymore than the stuff you describe regarding symbolism.

[@ScritRighter]

I enjoy walking around and reading item descriptions and trying to piece together what happened. It's part of the experience for me. The mystery and the gaps are the point of it. Just fragments of a history. All while you play the game and make your own story as you go.

[@gilgamesh310]

@ScritRighter So how is that different to filling in gaps regarding a symbolism in other media? You could argue environmental storytelling is a form of symbolism too. The Silent Hill games get heavily praised for this.

[@ScritRighter]

@@gilgamesh310 Because Elden Ring and Dark Souls can be greatly enjoyed as an experience without knowing the plot or symbolism. It's built on a solid foundation which is enhanced by the symbolism and environmental storytelling.

[@gilgamesh310]

@@ScritRighter It can be greatly enjoyed because of the gameplay. That's the main reason I enjoy them. Anime and other media don't have gameplay, so it's kind of a poor comparison yo draw in that regard.

[@ScritRighter]

@@gilgamesh310 Not really because my advice is plainly: "Symbolism cannot stand on its own. It should be built on a foundation which can be appreciated without understanding or appreciating the symbolism."

[@The_Watsons_Works]

I'm too dense to even make symbolism of my own😭

[@Brandonツツツ]

As someone who has been a fan of FromSoft's games for nearly a decade and also someone who quite likes the Monogatari series, I have to say that your critique of Bakemonogatari comes off as insanely biased and uncharitable, while you hold the Dark Souls series and Elden Ring on a pedestal for doing basically the same things. It just sounds like an attempt to intellectualize the reasons that you didn't like it, when the reality is that all of your reasons for disliking it are personal and subjective. Saying "there is no story told" and that the plot is hard to follow is kinda just a skill issue on your part; the structure of the story arcs is painfully simple: a new character is introduced -> that character's conflict is introduced -> araragi helps them solve their conflict, and then maybe a bit of character development by the end of it. It definitely doesn't require reading a reddit post to understand the general surface-level plot, and doesn't even require watching a video essay to understand a lot of the deeper symbolism, foreshadowing, and themes if you're paying attention. Also, it's mind-boggling how you can bash Bakemonogatari for being "too focused on symbolism to tell a coherent story" while praising FromSoft games for supposedly doing the opposite when those games are *literally* famous for their obtuse, difficult-to-follow plot. It can be safely assumed that most people who finish a playthrough of Elden Ring without googling anything about it probably have almost no idea what happened or why. But, as you would probably agree, that bit of mystery and intrigue can serve to keep players (and watchers alike) invested in the story and its nuances, even if they can't fully grasp it all. At the end of the day, it's totally acceptable that you don't like Monogatari because of its depiction of minors (absolutely valid criticism!) and aspects of the writing which subjectively didn't appeal to you, but just don't grandstand about how it's objectively "pretentious" or "dogshit" with such piss-poor reasoning.

[@ScritRighter]

It's very simple. If you don't understand the deeper meaning of the soulsbourne series, you get: - an engaging and rewarding skill based combat system - likeable characters - A sense of accomplishment - Areas to explore and secrets to uncover - Silly hats - Amazing music - Incredibly beautiful areas - Jolly cooperation IF you don't understand the deeper meaning of Monogatari you get: - Blank void backgrounds - Insufferable characters, some of which touch children or are children who are often exposed or framed sexually for some reason - The camera cutting between shots every 3 seconds on average - Jokes which you might not understand even if you are fluent in Japanese - Uncomfortable scenes surrounding aformentioned children. - Fantastically animated fights and boobs - great music It's almost like symbolism isn't the issue. It's the lack of substance above the symbolism that I was critiquing.

[@Brandonツツツ]

​@@ScritRighter Do you not see how it makes no sense to compare GAMEPLAY in a video game to STORYTELLING in a tv show?? At least compare apples to apples. Remember your own argument, that if we remove all the symbolism there's no story left underneath. If we remove symbolism, as well as every point you just listed relating to gameplay for the Soulsbourne series and just focus on that which relates to storytelling, we get: "likeable characters". If we do the same for Bakemonogatari, we get: "insufferable characters". Now, if you wanted to go from there and make a substantive critique of the characters in Bakemonogatari, that would at least be a more coherent argument, but you made no substantive claims about that here or in the video (other than "no one talks like a real person" lol). This whole video is just you mistakenly conflating storytelling with """E X P E R I E N C E""" and """V I B E S""". A piece of media you don't like for other reasons can still have good storytelling and vice versa. Again, it just seems like you're grandstanding and trying to over-intellectualize your (otherwise completely valid) distaste for Bakemonogatari with criticism in places where it's not deserved; you can go off about the sexualization, the sub-par localization, and "blank" environments, just don't pretend that those have anything to do with the storytelling, which is actually quite strong.

[@ScritRighter]

​@@Brandonツツツ Storytelling-wise Dark Souls gives you an intro on the world, who you are, and what you're meant to do. Monogatari does... nothing. They yap about an obscure yokai and reference things which haven't happened yet during dialogue which makes no sense unless you've watched or read parts of the story which were not adapted at the time. The story is told out of order and it's rarely ever truly told. Characters are insufferable because we have: A child touching incestuous loser, a psychotic yapping girlfriend who has 0 chemistry with the main character, a lesbian who likes the girlfriend and offers to have sex with the main character to get with his girlfriend because that's how lesbians work, a child who is frequently assaulted by the main character, a sister who is frequently wearing clothes which are pretty much falling off of her, etc etc. There isn't a story here, and there are several scenes dedicated to depicting our main character's obsession with children and sex. I'm sorry, but all of that is completely no-diffed by Solaire in my eyes and the 'deeper meaning' of Monogatari is lost on me because I have no incentive to explore it deeper.

[@drachenrecke5090]

This comment is important! I don`t think you get many of the words and things you talk about in this video yourself, which is okay. The video seems more like a self learning experience for yourself. *But* in regards to the title: I think that many stories either feel pretentious or profound based on the believes and intentions of the creator. The sensation I get from Elden Ring, Lord of the Rings or other things with rings is genuine and profound bc the end product mirrors the intentions of the makers. They were convinced of the importance of what they were making and it shows. Most of these anime shows however often sacrifice ernest moments for cheap laughs or skirt peaks. One moment they are pretending that all the goals and wishes of the protagonist are at stake and in the next moment they show some fan service. The creators don`t take their own show serious, so how could I?

[@dDoodle788]

I actually think that the main problem is that he doesn't keep in mind some basic things, for example, he doesn't speak Japanese, therfore a lot of the actually very obvious visual puns of the monogatari series seem like " criptic symbolism".

[@chao3948]

wow your voice reminds me a lot off KingK

[@gaelfranco8411]

The point youre making is great, symbolism means nothing without a good story. What i think youre getting wrong is the diference between symbolism and subtext. Symbolism is the representation of something in a symbolic way. For example the color theory used in Beaking Bad to represent the personality and ideology of the characters. Subtext is when you tell something in an implicit way. Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion for example. NGE is about the subtext, it has its story and plot, but the main goal of the show is showing what can not be seen. Just like the example you gave of the man drinking one extra beer. That example of yours does not work because what you made is not symbolism, is subtext. With you showing someone drinking more alcohol than usual, you can demonstrate the character is feeling down or sad or whatever. If you showed him drinking alone, while in the background we see a family having a good time having dinner together, that IS symbolism. What you wrote wasnt wrong because it was symbolism; it was wrong because it didnt tell what you thought it will (it was poorly writen). Again, the point youre trying to make is good, but you got it wrong.

[@syalemmeta]

Idk if the redacted part was about jjk or the thumbnail was just bait but, idk or care for anything about the Buddhist symbolism ppl hype up, the deep part to me i think its how the story since mahito goes to how other ppl can curse you, to how your family can do it, to how you do it to yourself. I might be biased but very recently i understood what shadow work was about and when i see yuuji admiting crimes "his shadow" made and then carrying the disgusting thing on its hand saying he has to accept it regardless of how ugly it is it hits kinda hard to me.

[@EPadraigM]

EPIC MENTIONED LETS GOOOOO!!!!!!

[@flair541]

I think another good use of both symbolism and IRL history is Killzone. As a series. Sure, the Helghast are basically glowy-eyed Nazis. But that isn't the end all be all and even if it was, the story still explores the idea of their fascist tendencies rising from the fact that they were forced into all sorts of worse and worse situations. Being cut off and declaring themselves sovereign, having their planet taken from them and being forced to live on a hostile hellscape of a world, that world was left uninhabitable and a billion of their people were massacred. And there's all the other war stuff going on. The Berlin wall thing in Shadowfall for example. The corporate interests gradually corrupting things beyond repair. Etc. But first and foremost, it's a story about war and what a fucking nightmare it is.

[@nelisezpasce]

Monogatari is just brilliant. That should be a fact by this point. Call it a Tsukihime ripoff. It doesn't change how much it rocks. It lies to you. Switches narrators. Plays with your assumptions. The wordplay might be the only aspect even natives miss. Appealing to authority: The author is extremely popular. He has published multiple book series, not just this one. The anime is also revered because it performed a miracle: It nailed what was thought to be impossible to adapt. And the people involved only did it because they're fans! The animators at Shaft understood what the story is about! There must be examples of whatever point you're making. Examples of hollow symbolism, failures, and so on. But not Monogatari! You chose a terrible example! Virtue signalling may be one of the worst things ever. You're showing a very ugly part of you. Consider fixing it. Acting smug. You're not stupid cause you didn't enjoy it. But you would be if you refused to reassess your stance. Looking forward to your "I WAS WRONG" video eventually.

[@syalemmeta]

"Appealing to authority"? That's not a good argument, it's a fallacy dawg

[@TheBigMannyShow]

This basically explains exactly why I think Evangelion is dogsh*t

[@sergiudana8716]

You should read the books

[@parkourmaster7610]

writers who got nothing to say and fail to find the point of their own stories often use meaningless symbolism to hide that insecurity so that the readers themselves project their own ideas into them

[@anidiot1122]

FUCK YES EPIC MENCHOND(cant spell)

[@DonJuan-ex2id]

How many times are u gonna change the thumbnail 😭

[@Nito4ka228]

Kolobanga mentioned

[@blisseyconfuso6500]

Why is bro arguing "stories being soulless is fine actually"

[@blisseyconfuso6500]

Edit: I removed the first part of this comment, I was being unhinged because I use KZbin comments to vent when I don't like a video since usually people don't look to much at them, I stand by what I said but the first part was really mean I apologize, I promise to be less unhinged in the future XD (edit end) I don't even disagree with everything you are saying it's just the fact that you felt the need to make a video like this as if we have the problem that stories require to much media literacy now days, what are you even trying to achieve by saying this? Make art have less substance? I don't understand, it really feels like you just have an issue with this very niche style of storytelling that relies a lot on the spectator to make an effort to understand the point in order for the story to be fulfilling and are superficially unengaging otherwise (?) the shows and movies you are criticizing are not the norm AT ALL, it really feels like you are mad at the monogatari fanbase and made up a whole fake topic to base your video around because it would be too cringe to hate on a show people like for no reason

[@beneon]

​​@@blisseyconfuso6500i think he pulled off "You just wasted your time," in a polite way before he ended the video, like this video being useless the same way as he argued the concept of stories being soulless

[@novettevezoe]

He said stories should be coherent and convey more than just symbolism, not that stories should be soulless. I honestly don't know where you got the idea he was saying but he wasn't, in fact 8:37 is a far cry from the "soulless stories are good" argument you were claiming he made.

[@blisseyconfuso6500]

​@@beneonsorry, I don't mean to be rude but I don't know what you mean, if it's the part about people wanting stories to be deeper than they are I think he is just being dismissive, I don't really see any clever thing about wasting your time watching the video or anything but maybe I am hating too much to see it lol

[@ScritRighter]

Is 'bro' in the room with us?

[@Sappysappster]

Fullmetal Alchemist is my favorite series OAT that ive reread countless tomes hrowing up The reason why i like it is because you dont need to be an analytical super genius to enjoy the symbolism and references; as the story and character writing is just so strong youll fall in love with the series anyways Yet when you DO get those references/symbolism, it makes you realize just how much of a goat Arakawa is with the pen This, to me, is what makes the story age like fine wine. As when you get older, you notice more and more things about the series She's someone I strive to be when it comes to writing stories and characters

[@rohkandagoat7679]

So uhhh.... How much would your family member charge to edit a 99 thousand word novel?

[@ScritRighter]

I think the going rate is like 4-5$ per 1000 words.

[@raktimamchiforthe4thtime445]

Mulholland drive disagrees

[@alexandredesouza3692]

To be fair, the snail anime you brought up only seems to have symbolism that basically implies he's a sexual degenerate. I think symbolism can be good storytelling if you're good enough. Basically nothing happens in the films "Anatomy of a Fall" and "Zone of Interest". But the latter has the symbolism to expose and critique the banality of evil. It's a much more engaging movie than the former, which is just "we need to prove your husband's accident was a suicide, so you don't get framed for murder". Which was a total snoozefest, because there's nothing, not even theme, to latch onto.

[@Kanyes-alt]

This is a hot take oh boy hehe

[@charlie8829]

You can see it in the comments too omg. The Redditors be going crazy

[@obluda5609]

You are just not suited for Monogatari's storytelling. Acting like it's failed in some way is odd. Monogatari is NOT a plot-focused series, yet you conflate plot with "storytelling" throughout the video. Monogatari is a character-focused series, and the dialogue usually relates to breaking down the characters and their feelings in the story.

[@blackcatpirates8134]

Holy sh*t someone else other than some people ik finally said it, I'm so tired of people yammering on about symbolism and themes. As a wannabe good writer, I mainly think about plot, characters and world building while writing a story not themes or symbolism, same with analysing other stories

[@VooshSpokesman]

Love from a CaptainMack and Vaush fan!

[@syalemmeta]

These comments are bad lol

[@valviform]

So you're saying FNaF is trash

[@Azureneedle]

Very good advice to learn for both reader and writer.