The difference between support roles | Dota 2 7.28a

What's the difference between the two support roles? Mindsets, objectives, etc. Great question, kinda hard lol. There's a lot of flexibility to the roles, but I try to explain some general ideas for each role. Probably not so useful to experienced players.
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[@YY-mk4ti]

Low brackets: We don't do that here.

[@casecold1864]

No, because the chance you have to support a 1-30 mid feeding juggernaut is ultra high.

[@kasenkohen2347]

you all prolly dont care at all but does anybody know a way to log back into an Instagram account..? I was stupid forgot the password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me!

[@kasenkohen2347]

@Brayden Bjorn I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and im in the hacking process now. Seems to take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@kasenkohen2347]

@Brayden Bjorn It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy! Thank you so much you saved my ass :D

[@braydenbjorn9953]

@Kasen Kohen you are welcome xD

[@tanyboy]

Been looking for support content for a while! Subscribed

[@silverbird4770]

Loved the presentation. Clear and to the point. It showed that you took time and effort to prepare. Thanks

[@janeadita7489]

Thanks for the quality content! Really helped me to understand more of this roles! :)

[@handymasbos]

I respect the content, this shit help me a lot understanding my fucking role as suppport.

[@JeremyIVfr]

Quality content! 21:34 in my opinion, Silencer is a decent example of Pos. 5. He is both a strong and a weak laner. Yes, he is a little squishy but for me, he is item independent. Good crowd control with his global silence, he can cast it anywhere and he doesn't really need expensive items to function well as a support. Usually I make glimmer cape and force staff to save myself or my carry as a Pos. 5 Silencer. The Aghanim Shard is also sick cool for him. On the other hand, Skywrath Mage is also a good example of Pos. 4 hero, if he is played as a support. He obviously needs more gold than a Pos. 5 in order to function well. I have seen a lot of Herald-Guardian players play Skywrath as a Pos. 5, make about 2-3 Null Talismans and lose the game without having enough money to buy Rod of Atos XDDD.

[@markriveral6287]

Love ur content man always a masterclass. Thank you

[@StephenAndrichuk]

thanks for all of your videos!

[@Arrlic]

this is extremely helpful. i came from league and seen this number system and just assumed it meant nothing had no idea it had to do with gold priority.

[@TheGlenn8]

The way I've always understood it is that pos 4 heroes are heroes that seek to 1-2 key things in the game that they need some items for. They usually come in the roaming, initiating, or bullying varieties. So earth-shaker wants to initiate a fight and stun people so he has to get some mobility items to do that. Bounty hunter wants to gank and provide vision so he has to get these early game ganking items and a bit of tankiness so he can cast multiple ultimates. Venomancer is this powerful lane bully that can disrupt what the enemy pos 5 is doing and get easy kills on the enemy carry. Pos 5 heroes basically do everything they can to enable their carry and tend to need very little to do so effectively. They usually come in the disabling, saving, or boosting variety. Disruptor is a powerful disabler that can set-up for kills and can keep one or multiple enemy heroes under control. Oracle is the archetypical saver that has multiple ways of saving his carries from a bad situation. Io is a booster that makes his carry incredibly powerful by proving him with health, mana, a buff, and mobility.

[@fbwhitey]

Bounty is also an excellent courier sniper, I feel like this is something he's so good at it probably should be his main priority in lane. The pos 1/5 having only starting items/regen for the first 5-6 mins or so can be lane (or even sometimes game) winning

[@Jefrejtor]

Great video, earned yourself a sub!

[@AndiKod]

Quality content as usual :)

[@Kouterry]

Hey man Great video its really helping me

[@AnybodyKillMe]

Great info in this video. For a long time i just thought of the 5 as "ward bitch/babysitter" and the 4 as "ganker"

[@casecold1864]

Pos 5 enables the carry. Without pos 5 carry has no chance of carrying the game. No pos 5 is 100% lose.

[@Wombola]

been looking for a vid like this

[@ingridchen6102]

Easy to understand!! Thanks :)

[@Aliisgoingsomewhere]

Really good guide!

[@manuelmarce2544]

I was just about to comment and ask if Hoodwink is 4 or 5 but you already provided the answer. thank you very much!

[@stocktonfiero5379]

hi ZQ, do you do coaching?

[@cintyx2725]

Great video bud

[@TheBugB]

Thanks Z

[@PrinnyMi]

Awesome video. I would love to hear more details about how to roam effectively. Been kinda confused about the dual lane meta. I feel like if you roam, you're making the lane harder for your offlaner, especially after you soaked some exp. This makes your enemy safelaner have an easier lane which seems like a terrible idea.

[@ZQuixotix]

Roaming is harder in this 2v2 meta for sure. The main idea is that you aren't gone forever, just roaming for a little bit. It could change on the game, but you either want to find times where you aren't risking much leaving the lane, or your potential gain from roaming outweighs the downsides of leaving the lane (like getting a kill mid). Like you said, when you leave, the lane might be tougher for your offlaner which would be bad. So we want to tactfully choose when we leave the lane. Particularly, if you can get the lane close to your offlane tower, your offlaner will be safe on his own. This gives you a bit of time to roam. You want to return as the lane starts to push back to the safelane tower though. Another situation could be that you kill the support or carry. Now it could be okay to leave your offlaner alone while you go roam. Faster, mobile heroes are better at roaming because they reduce the amount of time they leave the lane. Another approach would be to stay in lane until you pick up boots/windlace so that you are faster.

[@PrinnyMi]

@@ZQuixotix thanks for much for the detailed reply! All that makes a lot of sense. Appreciate it!

[@SpySappingMyKeyboard]

@@ZQuixotix I'd also point out a lot of classic roamers - ES, shaker, tiny - will start boots tangos against a lot of lanes.

[@shohanranasinghe4403]

Can u do a video on how to calibrate high in MMR in dota for a new account? Really love ur presentations

[@MrRipYourHeadOff]

I think this is helpful for people who have no idea what a support is, but I feel like if the video had gone another 5 minutes you would have gotten to some juicy stuff. Questions I would have from here: Do we define positions based on the bare necessity of farm and xp, or on the scalability of these? example: Grimstroke obviously scales better than CM with items because of his ult, but he doesnt really NEED any items to function in a teamfight, whereas CM actually needs to buy something to guarantee value with her ult. Also, you mentioned ES would make a horrible 5, but does this go the other way for other heroes? Are there 5's that don't do the 4 role well, or is it always a bottom up philosophy?

[@vladpuia6960]

Cm scales insanly high with her as i think Ur wrong

[@jakerobertventura5546]

Been playing like a hard/soft support regardless of support role assignment lol. Might try this one out

[@ZQuixotix]

It matters less depending on what bracket you're in. The lower the mmr, the more you can get away with whatever support you want. And that at some point, pro dota shows if you go high enough, you can kind of do whatever again lol

[@808perp2]

Half my screen is broken so I comment to see all replies.

[@tomepajmakoski9095]

Before I watch this study I have understood hsupp is healer/stunner and support Is perhaps a slow/stun spam guy who is maybe a carry but leaves the offlaner to get the creeps :)

[@taylanerkene2181]

Wish every dota player knew these

[@katakgemok]

thanks, good contain and i have an idea i have to play support. and what the objectiveof hard supp.i should not leave my carry.

[@RamonNZ]

I am illuminated, thank you.

[@koken6433]

where do you go in game to see the picks for each position? i have dota plus but cant find that

[@ZQuixotix]

Go to the hero tab, and then near the bottom-left of the screen you can choose how to sort the heroes. SORT BY: Attributes is the default. Click that and choose Role Assistant instead.

[@bsj8302]

Good video Can i ask u one question Could i get to the 6k mmr by playing pos5 and pos4 only ???

[@ZQuixotix]

For sure! I got to 5K playing mostly support but still some core roles. I got to Immortal exclusively playing position 5, and currently I'm ~6.7k playing pos 4 and 5. I think you can climb from any rank with just support, but how you play support will probably adjust to your bracket a bit. At higher brackets, you do more typical support duties that everyone talks about. But the lower brackets require/allow supports to be played greedier and to do some core duties

[@bsj8302]

Thanks alot ❤❤

[@austinbrittenham9373]

Iconic

[@QUQINGPING]

hi can you make an update on this topic in this current meta? Ty

[@nguyentrung6460]

how did you do it can you share with me , thank you

[@tasce21]

What do you think about pos 4 pango?

[@casecold1864]

It's useless. A pango needs farm to be anything at all. Farm you can't afford.

[@djdimapasoc7988]

What about Visage?

[@DevoniusTrud]

I'm trying to figure out position 5 vengeful spirit. Can I send you a replay?

[@nudl4668]

Venge 5 isn't good right now. If you play solo queue, idiots just run back in when you save them. There are other supports that basicly bring the same kit, but are less shit so play them.

[@ZQuixotix]

Yeah you can send a replay! On discord is easiest, but you can send it here too, just let me know what hero (I'm assuming Venge lol) you are and any questions. I will get to it as soon as I can!

[@llai8501]

Do you have a patreon that we can support you on?

[@ZQuixotix]

That's very kind of you! The newer videos have it in the description, but here's a link to my Patreon - www.patreon.com/ZQuixotix It's absolutely optional though, just having people watch the videos is plenty of support!

[@llai8501]

@@ZQuixotix thank you! It's so great that you're making so much support content. It's a niche that is finally getting the attention it deserves. When will coaching be available on your patreon again?

[@ZQuixotix]

@@llai8501 Thank you! As for coaching, I'm not sure, usually a few spots cycle open every now and then. If you're able to drop by the stream on Wednesday nights, I raffle off free replay analyses to viewers which is sort of like mini coaching haha

[@llai8501]

@@ZQuixotix thank you! Where can I find more about the stream? I'm based on Australia so will have to figure out the time difference!

[@peaceofmind5819]

I get 6 minutes in and all of a sudden my entire understanding of supports has turned upside down 😳

[@JK-li1ve]

If you are below Ancient, forget about pos 4 and 5 roles as almost no one in pubs really do like ZQ said. Almost every games are just either 2 supports or none. So just pick any supp hero and do everything mentioned here.

[@casecold1864]

Just make sure your carry has space and stop taking his XP behind a tree with 0 regen xD.

[@TwoBeesOneWhy]

I think Dota is changing. I've felt the soft support is kind of evolving into "jungle support" on the 2v2 meta. Am I completely wrong?

[@ZQuixotix]

I don't feel like we're quite at a jungle support yet, but I've seen a couple attempts at it recently in pro games. For pubs, I'd still heavily recommend 2v2 or at least roaming rather than jungling.

[@TwoBeesOneWhy]

@@ZQuixotix Sure, sure. But since those neutrals camp moved closely to side lanes, support position are more active in the "small jungle".

[@SumChange]

Well I thought pos 3 did everything a pos 4 does here except ward... what does a pos3 do???

[@ZQuixotix]

They can be similar, but the position 3 is more farm oriented than the position 4. While the position 4 might move around more in the early game, the position 3 tends to stay in lane trying to farm up. Position 3's will have more money to then do whatever their job is (different offlaners do different things so it's hard to say). Also, in a given game, the 3 and 4 roles will likely be different. Every game will have a soft support and offlaner, but sometimes you might have an initiating 3 with a more backline damage focused 4. Maybe you'll have an initiating 4 with a tanky aura building 3. So while overall they have the potential to do similar things, in a given game, the offlaner is probably doing something different from the soft support.

[@Daniel-zr4pk]

pls make update for 7.34 2023

[@StiCk995]

do you make replay review for money?

[@ZQuixotix]

I do them for free right now! If I reach the point where I get too many requests, then maybe I'll have to charge something so that I'm not overwhelmed. But I like doing them for free to help people

[@StiCk995]

@@ZQuixotix you are amazing ✨ i got inspired by your new video about spamming a hero in order to improve. i’m gonna send you my replay to analyse once I feel I reached some point where I’d need some help and a piece of advice

[@abca14045]

so there is no difference between the two?

[@ZzeaLoT711]

5 is the lowest from 1-5

[@DroisKargva]

I agree cores are easier to play. They literally just hit creeps

[@casecold1864]

The hard part in carry lies in being the fastest, and die the least. It hard in an other way. Support is still harder if you ask me.

[@toram6210]

Support get yelled all the time Especially when dps see u kill creeps

[@nsmx1]

pos 1-4: nope. i'm too good to ward or bring dust. that's for pos5 only -----sea players

[@maironannatar7335]

Been a support a long time ago, buying wards makes you poor AF, thankfully theyre free now. Just got back after about 10 years XD

[@o.k.2254]

+

[@LongDefiant]

Pos 5, but the rest of the team buys all the wards. Then cry like infants when there's no vision because they are sh*t at ward placement.

[@kingarzal1502]

Me a Soft Support on my team... 30 minutes Later : somehow I become the Core of my team. The enemy build Counter item just for me...

[@casecold1864]

You know that's bad play right?

[@kingarzal1502]

@@casecold1864 Idk man... i just have Blink and that Invisible Amulet as CM when that happened... and all 5 enemies carried Dust all the time while My Team don't have Invis hero...

[@darukona7218]

@@kingarzal1502 me too, i play CM and omg wraith king and all of the ennemy team comes directly with BKB on me (then I flee and die but my team is far away and manage to kill them all LOL)

[@kingarzal1502]

@@darukona7218 it's been a long time since i play. But yeah a Support Role is more Crucial than you think. Only an idiot who think support role is only for vision. The most role that need a lot of Calculation is a Support LoL...

[@OneOfTheLoveless]

Ong I can't hear you on my headphones.

[@allanjeffries6937]

Then get new ears

[@Ascendedepic9349]

I really like the role of support, but absolutely detest the idea of "warding", it's something I always forget to do in matches and I just don't want to think about positions etc and just wish my teammates would do it all instead lol. If only warding wasn't a feature in this game, life would be 10x easier

[@ramaalhussami3070]

Too much blah blah