The Disney Sue (Mary sues from Disney)

In recent years there seems to be more Mary Sues than ever and a lot of them are coming from Disney. so I came up with the term the Disney Sue. In this video I will be going over ray from, start wars captain marvel from captain marvel girl loki from loki and black panther starlord from marvel what if.
big thank you to Exro for editing this video for me:
/ @officialexroyt
Same Video but with the robot voice:
• The Disney Sues (Robot...
Too Many Mary Sue's:
• Too Many Mary Sues (Mo...
Mary Sues And Gary Stus:
• Mary Sues And Gary Stus
Dante's Inferno:
• What is Dante's Infern...
• Classics Summarized: D...
• Classics Summarized: D...
Star Wars : Rey Fights Luke with A Double Bladed Lightsaber:
• Star Wars : Rey Fights...
Just Stop's video Mulan 2020 Is a Failure in Almost Every Way
• Mulan 2020 Is a Failur...
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[@JUSTAROBOT_AKA_JAR]

Is there any other Disney Sues that I missed? or do you disagree with anything I said in this video? Same Video but with the robot voice: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKDPcqGDhZ1gabs

[@Garvity69420]

Ok

[@corbetthowell3392]

Gareth, from Camelot

[@HelloHuman1]

Interesting use of OSP

[@Im_connorreviews]

I disagree with you on Loki it’s a show that had special meaning to me. I disagree with you on that with you, but your opinions are ok with the result you’re videos

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

@@corbetthowell3392 Wait, as far as i know, that wasn`t Disney. Quest for Camelot was Warner Bros.

[@jackmack4181]

I created an imaginary friend who’s a Mary Sue that I used as a copping mechanism but I have never put him down on paper at the fear of being ridiculed for such a “perfect” (in sarcastic quotes) character. so I kept him in my head, trying to humanize this concept of a character.

[@gokukakarot5246]

Try creating an imaginary gun

[@spidermaster0543]

I think you shouldn’t let people bully you because of your character. If you like them, write about them! That’s it to say that Mary Sues are good writing, but hey, maybe your character can be turned into a commentary on Mary Sues!

[@TheRojo387]

Police officers are real-life Mary Sues.

[@celestialcreeper8736]

@@TheRojo387 how?!?!

[@jackmack4181]

@Putra Siregar that’s what I’ve been trying to do, I don’t want him to be overpowered for no reason given.

[@devastatheseeker9967]

Dante is so unintentionally hilarious and so is the game.

[@camerahead3118]

Dante, the guy who read the Bible and said "Imma write a fanfiction on that"

[@tuttiman55]

Been playing dante’s inferno and I’m not gonna lie you do feel overpowered when you start the game by killing death

[@alpha_nox5672]

I thought you talked about dmc for à sec

[@kabutoyakushi9739]

Damn I was thinking you guys were talking about Devil May Cry Dante

[@Dan_Kanerva]

wait , we are not talking about the protagonist of Devil May Cry ?

[@DangerDan64]

The fact he convinced Thanos of all people, made me instantly in disbelief, because everything up to that point seemed very possible and likely, but until that part was brought up. Yeah, definitely Garry Stu no debate afterwards. Especially the fact one can argue that in Doctor Strange's over 5,000,000,000 possibilities he couldn't reason with Thanos, then yeah no one can. Simple as that.

[@drakofox1362]

And the fact that we all know the real reason Thanos did the plan........HE WANTED TO STICK HIS JUNK IN DEATH!!!!!! Yes Death is a girl in Marvel who is already in love with Deadpool

[@SlimSamari]

@@drakofox1362 This is MCU Thanos he's an edge lord who wiped out half of the galaxy then later got bored and became a farmer who eats soup. 616 Thanos did it all for love to impress Death. If the MCU adds Death their going to screw her up with some dumb agenda.

[@emblemblade9245]

I thought I read somewhere that the reason he killed half the universe for death is because DEATH thought the universe’s population was growing out of control, so basically the reasons MCU Thanos had Which is kinda funny

[@l0sts0ul89]

@@SlimSamari would you rather be a Edge Lord or a SIMP

[@SlimSamari]

@@l0sts0ul89 Death was the one pulling his strings in the comic.

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

I think the thing that really bugged me about T'Challa becoming Starlord was the thought of an orphaned Peter Quill on Earth having no one left after his mother dies. Peter being kidnapped by Yondu and raised by him was something he needed, Yondu wasn't the greatest father figure but he gave Peter a new purpose.

[@emanuelstornello8009]

i agree

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

TheChildofAurqReborn, it’s because SJWS hates Chris Pratt as an actor is why they made MCU What If T’Chala into the Mary-Sue Starlord, and regardless if he’s a far right conservative, Libertarian conservative/libertarian liberal, centrist liberal/conservative, or a far left liberal that isn’t a SJW, and I don’t see why the SJWS shits on him as a person just for disagreeing with his politics that he shares.

[@modnarresu6758]

Did you forget about his grandfather? He was still alive in Vol. 2 so he would've been the one to take care of Peter after his mother died.

[@IcyDiamond]

Yeah I kind of wish we saw some negative side effects to T’Challa becoming Star-Lotd instead of Quill, that’s just my opinion though, it was still a fun episode I’ll give it that

[@voidhunter9474]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr Okay racist

[@Snow-dv7hx]

7:50 It makes sense that Rey would be better at driving since she had her own speeder back on Jakku that she, herself, made. I didn't know about this deleted scene, and now it pisses me off since it would've been nice to see her utilize a skill she actually has, but instead, she's good at anything anytime it's necessary.

[@LL-tr5et]

you're right !

[@nutellaninja4667]

She literally said in TFA that she knew how to fly ships, but she never left the planet.

[@Mysikrysa]

@@nutellaninja4667 Yep. It makes sense she can repair and fly ships because she worked for that ugly alien guy Plutt and her job was to scavenge useful parts of old ships, do some repair jobs on the ships (she knew what "tunning" Plutt did to Falcon) and most likely she did test flights of repaired or "tunned" ships too.

[@bluelanternguardianangel8038]

What's even more bizarre is that when she fell into that cave in the last jedi, she swam. I have friends who never been to a pool in their lives so if they were dropped into a lake like that, they would certainly drown. Rey, who was raised on a *DESERT* planet, knew how to swim. They could've shown her struggle and learn something new but nooooooooo

[@Bladezeromus]

@@Mysikrysa See, when people have a problem with the fact that Rey flew the falcon, I don't think it's the fact that she can fly a ship that they hate. In Star Wars, I'd guess that even a kid could hop into a speeder or a ship and pilot it. Not well, but they could. It's the fact that someone who at best fixes a part and then flies a few circles just to test it could fly expertly through a crashed star destroyer and pull crazy trickshots with no real expertise.

[@AlecMeyer94]

Rapunzel from Tangled is how Disney did a female character right.

[@JUSTAROBOT_AKA_JAR]

true

[@mariociampini4947]

Some female characters in Disney movies are so Mary Sue-like so people can be like “Look mum! A female character” and just make them overly strong for the sole reason as to what I just said.

[@mariociampini4947]

@Shank how does that make a difference?

[@ggt47]

Meh.

[@VinnyLovesYou]

What about Meg?

[@The_Ragequit_Cannon]

Man, the "All lives matter segment" with Thanos and Black Panther had me dead

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

I’m very certain that Free Hong Kong movement and All Lives Matter movements wouldn’t be able to convince MCU Thanos into stopping the massive genocide across the universe, so yes MCU What If Black Panther is definitely a massive Mary-Sue.

[@IcyDiamond]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr *Gary Stu

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@IcyDiamond , Gary Stu is just another term for a male Mary-Sue.

[@IcyDiamond]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr That’s why I corrected you with it

[@The_Ragequit_Cannon]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr Nothing any of those people could say would actually change Thanos' mind. If anything, he'd be more inclined to eliminate them first. They seem inclined to bring nothing but chaos. Thanos might be going about it the wrong way, but his mission is to bring peace to the universe

[@amesstarline5482]

Looks like Lancelot being a Mary Sue makes it all the more appropriate that Shadow the Hedgehog was his Black Knight counterpart.

[@rachelc.8143]

Top tier comment.

[@zionthedragon8866]

Percival is also a bit of a gary stu, but no one seems to every point it out, but it's fitting blaze has her put in as Percival. She is a bit of a mary sue to some degree or has traits, but no one ever wants to point it out because I feel it's because she is a girl and the second biggest sonic fan wifu out there. That and the whole "I don't need a man" (imo, the WRONG kind of it) vibe she gives off, and many fan comics do the thing where she is basically better, stronger, and smarter than everyone around her, she becomes like how windblade from transformers has become, a no-it who is always right (minus the always right part). She doesn't even feel like a tomboy anymore, just the "I am always in charge, and always right, and pitty me" type IMHO. I am not saying she is bad. At one point I sort of liked her, and she's a interesting concept. But like silver, I feel eventually she was handled bad, thus a good character became a OVERRATED one. BUT she is not AS bad in problems as shadow IMO.

[@dashietheytpproductions2521]

This comment needs to be in a museum

[@masterseal0418]

Well, that's neat.

[@merchantziro4285]

The Ultimate Lifeform

[@ShadyDoorags]

After quite sometime after my last video on this topic, I've had a slight viewpoint change. The essence of a Mary Sue is that they are an insert for some form of the writer's beliefs that said writer does not want to be challenged, or at the very least, properly challenged. Usually this manifests itself as the writer inserting themselves into a story, but it can be a completely different character as well. These beliefs don't have to be political, they can be as simple as, "this character is good therefore shouldn't lose." The signs of a Mary Sue are that they are perfect and special. The effect of a Mary Sue is that they make the story less believable because the story seems to bend to their needs while ignoring their flaws. But the cause is always that the writer believes the plot should behave this way because the story makes sense in their mind that the Mary Sue triumphs.

[@zionthedragon8866]

I would believe it can be more than an self-insert such as someone making the idealized character or a character who everyone IRL needs to feel pitty for, and anyone in the game who disagrees or criticizes her/him is always an @$$hole who deserves to be belittled, ignored, disregarded, put down, etc.... Also, it's not necessarily having op powers that makes one a gary/marry sue, but how or why they get those powers, their draw backs to a small degree, and how it affects the story.

[@robinthrush9672]

I think boiling it down to the point of "this character is good and, therefore, shouldn't lose" kind of make the vast majority of protagonists Sues. Although, I do agree that a Sue isn't necessarily the author's insert/avatar and is, instead, the author's belief system made manifest.

[@zionthedragon8866]

@@robinthrush9672 I also think making them "special" without saying in what sense could make ANY deviant, aka some member of a fantasy race with albinism, a marry-sue which isn't the right mind set.

[@alwaysangry2232]

so even more childish.... makes sense

[@wannabehistorian371]

Oh my god this is so well put! That doesn’t make them a direct self insert, but they still are in a way.

[@chronic-joker]

"Inuyasha" benefited from the fact Inuyasha gets sidelined pretty often to let other characters do there thing he's still extreamly strong but he's not the only person in existence that matters, this is most present in the early episodes were sometimes he just acts as a wepon that needs other to use brain power for him to solve complex issues that can't just be hit harder.

[@MALICEM12]

Yeah he's pussy wiped half the time, wouldn't call that a Gary Stu

[@robertpaige4505]

Besides, Naraku's invincible, "two steps ahead at all times" villain shtick tends to override whatever stu-ish tendencies Inuyasha has.

[@liliesaregoodfortheliver2954]

​@@robertpaige4505that got to the point where I started laughing whenever Naraku explained his latest 4D chess move. I still love that show though.

[@MackerSlack]

Black starlord: hey thanos stop doing the bad and join me Thanos: OK.

[@wrongthinker843]

Thanos didn't want to be racist.

[@firepuppies4086]

T'challa never feeezes

[@CombatSportsNerd]

Ngl, that was honestly a pretty funny what if

[@theprofesionalist7927]

@@CombatSportsNerd Don't take What If seriously is the only argument that people have for this bull shit tho. It literally ignores Strange saying that their is only one possible universe where Thanos looses. I wholeheartedly agree that Balck Starlord is a Gary Stu. I would even go further to say that Captain Britain is a Mary Sue cuz she was able to rescue Bucky, which also not supposed to happen.

[@voidhunter9474]

@@theprofesionalist7927 Uh you are a bozo

[@PK-Radio]

Disney really be lovin incompetent writers lmao

[@kingleonidas2182]

“Oh your favorite scene? Yeah the actors actually improvised it.”

[@Kingbeat1]

The only good disney writers are the ones the cartoons

[@sonoio869]

@@Kingbeat1 press x to doubt

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@Kingbeat1 , even in the Disney cartoons the writers still hire terrible writers that writes cringey dialogue, and it’s not even the good cringey dialogue like in B-rated films and anime films but the terrible cringey dialogue that makes you facepalm 🤦‍♂️ anytime you watch the cartoons they make.

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

They hire blue checkmarks

[@12DAMDO]

"a Mary Sue is still a Mary Sue even if it's not meant to be taken seriously" i mean, considering the term came from a parody fan-fiction, i'm pretty sure that's common sense

[@EgrichSMG]

Common sense? In 2021?

[@12DAMDO]

@@EgrichSMG too be fair, _common_ sense is a social construct anyways..

[@tannerlipoufski1219]

@@12DAMDO Oh fuck, they're evolving. GET THE FLAMETHROWERS!!!

[@zeehero7280]

@@12DAMDO Common sense? I thought that went extinct years ago?

[@Capsirus]

Fun Fact: in a promo video for Shang Chi, they said that the Ten Rings were the most powerful things in their universe. Now, I doubt that the Ten Rings are stronger than the infinity gauntlet, but that means that Marvel has changed the most powerful hero in the MCU three times (if we take this literally).

[@invidatauro8922]

This is the problem with a shared comic universe. With so many heroes and macguffins, eventually you're gonna get a powerkreep so bad that stakes just don't matter any more.

[@KopperNeoman]

@Invidat Auro That's why Kingdom Hearts made its Keyblades so strong. So strong they can kill immortal undead and undo any lock - even divine ones.

[@clarity2199]

You're right on practically everything, including the Loki series. They ruined Loki utterly and completely. That series was complete dogshit! For Black Panther, was he a Gary Stu? Yes. Though I still feel it was a love letter to him. Yes, he was still alive, hell he played the voice of that character. But Hollywood knew he was dying of cancer far before we did. They knew he wasn't going to make it. It was a love letter to him and gave him a final part as well before he died. I truly believe that.

[@Xo-3130]

@@realtchallamama technically he isn't as he does have a conflict that is over if his nation should uphold the xenophobic isolationism of his ancestors or not. Killmonger, as much of a hypocrite that he is, shows him that it's a terrible idea and after the last act he comes to realize that Wakanda needs to open itself to the world. It's a genuine conflict. If Black Panther was a Gary Sue he would have easily breezed through it but he didn't.

[@ruhalajn]

Hollywood doesn't love

[@sambonbon755]

If I was dying and was an actor and the final role I did became a Gary Stu, Id be insulted

[@medievalcatguy6776]

How do you feel now with season 2?

[@mr.cobalt1668]

I thought Tchall-Lord being so good at solving everyone's problems was a bit comically overdone, but then the ending kinda reframed it into something impactful: that had Star Lord been literally *anyone* other than Peter Quill, then it wouldn't have mattered how much better a Star-Lord they were than our lovable rogue of questionable competence. All the good they could have done that Peter Quill didn't do under the tutelage of the Ravagers would have meant nothing whatsoever, because if Peter Quill wasn't Star-Lord, then Ego would have won, and the world would basically be over.

[@wolfspidervers1150]

thanos: "if all lives matter, then all brains must splatter."

[@zeehero7280]

I see thanos shares good taste in indie rappers!

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

I really don't like the direction Marvel movies are taking. It kinda gives the impression that they aren't trying as much as they did in the past.

[@emblemblade9245]

I mean it’s been like that for most of phase 3 honestly. It was so rushed and crammed and…ugh, I pretty much only cared about GOTG/2 and look where that went

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

@@emblemblade9245 I don't know about that: phase 3 at least still had a clear direction. Phase 4 is them literally throwing stuff on the wall and seeing what sticks.

[@jacoba6747]

@@matteomastrodomenico1231 I mean the direction seems to go towards kang and the multiverse.

[@jshadowhunter]

Dante's a self-insert, but he's not a Mary Sue/ Gary Stu.

[@TheFilippoman]

Dante suffered every step through hell, he had to see people he loved or respected suffer and didn't even get the girl at the end. Divina Commedia literally starts with Dante lost in a dark forest, scared to shit and chased by wild beasts. Definitely not a Gary Stu.

[@lordcavalier9688]

@@TheFilippoman even I understood that when I read it back in high school. Sure it’s a self insert but that a vehicle for how he perceives the concepts in the story.

[@voidhunter9474]

He is a Gary Stu for being op lol

[@diamondcrafter78shane68]

@@voidhunter9474 If that's the case, then every OP character in fiction is a gary stu/mary sue by default

[@Laaibach]

@@voidhunter9474 everyone is op on dantes world

[@Demolitiondude]

I have to disagree with Dante being a Gary Stu. The novel version. Because he never gets into combat where he overwhelmed everyone, or everyonelikes him because. Dante is a self insert tourist of the afterlife.

[@erika.s]

"Self insert tourist of the afterlife" most accurate description ever 😂

[@parrisol3xd524]

That is so accurate holy shit xD

[@antoninocaminiti9250]

And a few times he gets overwhlemed and it's heavily implied that without Vergil/Beatrice, he'd get his ass kicked

[@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375]

I already Know Mulan 2020 and Rey are gonna be mentioned

[@user-hj8oh9kh7v]

they gonna make them lesbians and marry them.

[@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375]

@@user-hj8oh9kh7v I mean Reylo is canon

[@tallflipkick]

@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 and Kyle's dead. They will make Rey a lesbian

[@SpringDavid]

@@tallflipkick sad

[@nutmatical1042]

@@tallflipkick isn't Disney kinda homophobic?

[@tylercoon1791]

Funny you mention Lancelot as a Gary Stu, because another character, I think Perceval, in Arthurian legend is best summed up as ‘he’s like Lancelot, but even coolerer!’

[@shamarbarrett9958]

Yep perceval and lancelot are both gary stus 😂😂

[@amandahealey2216]

I thought that was Gallahad...

[@florianfreiberger7212]

Not Perceval, Gallahad. Perceval is even just in Arthurian Legend because he was the preveous Grail-Knight, so that Gallahad can show how he's better than him too.

[@Ramsey276one]

Gary StuCEPTION?! XD

[@Ninetails2000]

Man, as a kid/teen my main character production was nothing but Mary Sue's. Rather than turning my back on them though, I decided to progressively refine and reinvent them into balanced characters with proper faults and limitations. It's actually pretty liberating to be able to flex my new writing skills on my old writing skills.

[@i8dacookies890]

I think the Thanos thing is the only far fetched part of Star Lord. I think his sort of upbringing was really hard to come by in that wild galaxy.

[@darwinxavier3516]

Yeah, but the Thanos thing was the straw that broke the camel's back. It went from "ok it's silly that everyone is fawning all over him when we haven't witnessed ANY of his supposed greatness, but I can accept that from a side character so I'll see where this goes", and then absolutely confirmed that this was someone's shitty Gary Stu fanfic by crossing that extra line of unbelievability.

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@darwinxavier3516 I guess I could kinda believe it since this still is a alternate universe but its still a bit iffy to say the least

[@jamesjoe1690]

Honestly, I'm fine with Wanda being strongest for the simple reason that she surpasses captain marvel, and she's atleast 10 thousand times more likable than CM.

[@IcyDiamond]

Yeah and she actually has, you know, flaws

[@goatlover6312]

@@IcyDiamond Yhea, who would like a character without a single flask. Flasks are very important for a character so that they can drink and stuff.

[@IcyDiamond]

@@goatlover6312 I fixed it lol

[@goatlover6312]

@@IcyDiamond Well now I look like a complete fool. And if I were to change my comment I would look like a sarcastic a-hole. There is just no winning this situation apparently.

[@IcyDiamond]

@@goatlover6312 Do you want me to change it back?

[@karastears]

A little off topic for this but we all remember the DeviantArt/Wattpad/A03/Fanfiction self-inserts known as Y/N right? Why are they always the "quirky im not like other girls/boys"?

[@ashleythetrashley1726]

I think it's because A.Sometimes people don't go to into depth with other characters and it could look like that. Or B. We think we have nothing or little in common with others to make ourselves feel special(a little sad but this is mostly it).

[@CrazyAlienLady051]

Are you talking about Reader inserts? I always assumed it's because the Reader Insert community is mainly young people (who most likely play Gacha Life) I know some who are alot older that actually write decent Reader insert stories.

[@asurabg7052]

I mean the "I'm not like other hirls/boys" statement does sound true for the people who consume them. I used to read them (much to my dismay) and now, looking back I realize how weird of a genre Reader Inserts are, the is definitely a very particular target audience it's appealing to.

[@geardestroy]

Man i should get back to searchin badfic reading channels, i miss a good laught out of them

[@fengroukan9148]

@@CrazyAlienLady051 From my experiences reading them. And from the community I was reading stories from, they tend to stagnate till someone drops a new style of them in and then they flock to make stories like them, heck most I've noticed tend to be female reader stories, so they just get repetitive with the "Reader baddass, but flusters" "Reader meak and gets so much love" Or "Reader badass but falls in love easy and is super flusterable" eh, it wears down on you if your there looking for interesting stories, most you can tell what'll be like quickly, because as I said, most borrow from one popular story in the genre. I'd say more, but yotube already deleted a comment and I aint remaking this again.

[@DozerfleetProd]

In Dante's defense, he even put scholars he liked in Hell, if he believed they had demonstrated themselves sufficiently off in some way to bar themselves from Heaven. He admitted that even some of his old friends were likely not going to make it, and then exploited that to illustrate whichever points he felt compelled to make. So his work wasn't all bad.

[@rgama1173]

If you want to make an overpowered protagonist, you just have to do like Disney's Hercules. He is so strong he can't control his actions. He is insecure and an outcast as a result. Went he learns to use his power he becomes overconfident as is trick as a result

[@liliesaregoodfortheliver2954]

He's also quite likeable.

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

6:50. Bingo. The problem with Ray (and Mary sues in general) isn't that she's an inexplicitly overpowered even for Star Wars. It's that there is nothing for the supporting cast to support. Luke needed the help of the other characters both materially and personally in the story so there's an investment into them by the audience.

[@Ramsey276one]

Kinda like Superman in JSA He cannot be everywhere at once But ReyRei didn’t need anything, except an Uber to Grandpa’s… XD

[@secondheaven9545]

There’s actually a reason for Kyle being able to overpower Luke. Luke hesitated and didn’t try to kill him, so despite having the jump on him, he put himself at a disadvantage due to hesitating, and they’re both Skywalkers, an apparently naturally powerful force sensitive family. I’m not saying he’s a Gary stue, still, but there is actual logical reasoning why he overpowered Luke.

[@ChallengeIdeas]

One of the hallmarks of a Mary/Gary Sue is when powerful/important canon characters are warped OOC to make the Sue look more powerful or virtuous or important. These are known as "Scary Sues". Luke is, by most estimates, made into a Scary Sue for both Rey and Kylo.

[@secondheaven9545]

@@ChallengeIdeas that is fair

[@mazkeraid4039]

@@ChallengeIdeas Aha! An evidence!

[@fgjjdgb3949]

The old trick of inept writers and producers, it is necessary to devalue old characters and elevate new ones, but they certainly do not know how to do it well.

[@WhoTouchedMyReindeer]

Finally, someone acknowledges that Lancelot is a Mary Sue fanfiction character.

[@sergioochoa913]

And a shit tier one for partaking on NTR

[@ChallengeIdeas]

Lancelot at least faces consequences for his decisions and his sins, in most versions. Galahad, on the other hand, never has bad decisions or sins.

[@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme]

Yeah Wanda does have reality warping chaos magic but in the Comics and in her history her powers were out of control cause of being mentally unbalanced which Wanda Vision doesn't go extreme with like in the Comics since we're being more conscious about how we depict mentally unhealthy people. And her greatest feat in the comics was that she depowered Mutants all over the Multiverse, in the mainstream 616 universe millions of mutants were depowered by Wanda leaving 200 left. It was later explained in Children's Crusade that she took possession of a omnipotent power known as the "Life Force" Power that was greater than the pre retconned *Beyonder*, that she couldn't control explaining her Mental Instability and how she had that level of power. I said it before, MCU characters are never as powerful as their Comicbook counterparts.

[@nvfury13]

Her greatest feat in the comics was when she was used by Enchantress to rewrite all reality, remaking it into one entirely of magic with Enchantress as the supreme being…

[@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme]

@@nvfury13 what Comic Arc was this?

[@nvfury13]

@@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme Digging out that part of my collection would be almost impossible…it was some point in the early 00s.

[@nathanielclaw2841]

Neither are the ones from DC. Comics are too op for live action

[@emblemblade9245]

Comic book power levels are just…….stupid!

[@damiendarko9411]

Dante: "Why can't thou fair maiden recognize my elegant intellect? Hast thou not a heart in thine bosom for a supreme gentlemen such as I, Dante?"

[@Sevent77]

So you're telling that Gary Star lord came up with an argument to convince Thanos but Doctor Strange didn't when he search trough all the possible timelines? Did he just miss the one with Gary Star Lord?

[@electricion712]

Dr Strange didn’t look through all possible timelines because there are an infinite amount of timelines meaning that it impossible to look through all of them. Strange was looking through timelines where the Avengers win and stopped looking once he found one. Also, by time Strange started searching through the timelines, Thanos was already attacking earth to get the infinity stones which at that point, it was already too late to convince Thanos that his plan was stupid. Star lord-T’challa, met Thanos before he started acquiring infinity stones.

[@felipedestickman]

I feel like the Ducktales reboot does it right. But that can just be me.

[@BlazeHeartPanther]

Its a reboot where the creators are respectful go the characters and the lore. They add a bit of references from other sources like the Disney Afternoon and the Donald Duck comics, but don't just do that to pander since they also write the characters very well too and write good stories to go along with them. A reboot done right.

[@wrongthinker843]

Could really do without the objectively superior at everything OCs.

[@dashietheytpproductions2521]

Mary Poppins is not a Mary Sue even though she is, to quote the movie and Broadway show “practically perfect in every way”

[@derricgreene]

Because, if we're looking at Dante's Divine Comedy, she's Virgil, and the children are Dante.

[@The-X-Territory]

Because she serves a purpose for the story. A Mary Sue doesn’t serve a purpose beyond wish fulfilment.

[@dashietheytpproductions2521]

That is true

[@dashietheytpproductions2521]

That’s… a fun way to look at it XD

[@otakubullfrog1665]

Disney may finally be learning that creating Mary Sues for particular identity groups doesn't elevate those groups and just makes everybody cringe seeing as how they've now delayed the new Indiana Jones movie after their plan to replace Indy with a woman who would probably have been a Mary Sue got exposed and the reactions have not been what they must have been hoping for.

[@jonnyboy4289]

We are getting a live action little Mermaid remake in 2023 and we're getting a black Ariel. The directors claim that Haily Baily captures the youth and innocence of the original Ariel. But, if you do your research hard enough, Haily Baily is really a diversity puppet because Haily Baily has little acting experience. Plus, they are going to give Ariel more girl power. (Personally, that alone is what's making me worried that people are going to love the remake more than the original and original will end up being erased, forgotten, history based on how people are ripping the movie to shreds nowadays.)

[@Nekosage]

Who would have ever thought all Thanos needed was a good talking to.

[@fatherpucci8170]

Deadpool , squirrel girl ,cosmic Ghost rider, miss Death ,Adam warlock ,starfox

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@fatherpucci8170 , Squirrel Girl prior to the SJWS making her a serious Mary-Sue character was a gag character not to be taken seriously otherwise all the Justice League would need an army of Bat-Mite clones to make the perfect Justice League; Deadpool was gaven immortality because of him constantly cucking Thanos in the comics, and you’re probably right about the other comic book characters, but since they were never introduced in the MCU than I’d say that MCU Thanos wouldn’t change his mind by just having the most brilliant minds throughout human history talking to him.

[@fatherpucci8170]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr agree Thanos is mad titan even in mcu Also something Did make squirrel girl Marry Sue ?

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@fatherpucci8170 , Squirrel Girl in the original 90s comics was a gag character.

[@fatherpucci8170]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr I know that's we love her because she gag characters but seriously they made her mary sue and serious characters?

[@MenxiGoblinQueen]

talking Thanos down from his madness really was ridiculous...

[@rafaelluisi7832]

The star panther thing with thanos remembers me of Fallout New vegas, where if you have max speech you can convince Legate Lanious that the legion plan of taking the mojave is dumb, but on fnv instead of becoming buddie with the courier, Lanious see the logic and retreats with the legion, but he afirms that they will come back eventually.

[@thebiolibrary5572]

Thor, Loki, Tony Stark and Doctor Strange: Could you not? Thanos: Fuck no, it's the only way! Black Panther Star Lord: Could you not? Thanos: Oh my god, you make a super valid point. What have I done?!

[@zacksilverstone7642]

"A perfect world is a never ending comedy, while a flawed world is a piece of reality." My writing teacher used to tell me that, and at first, I don't really get it. Even now, I don't fully get it. But I can see the gist of it in today's media.

[@Ramsey276one]

Unfortunately you are going to see MORE of that… for a while

[@tzeechgodofchange3197]

I hated that they called Wanda stronger than dr. Strange Wanda is strong don’t get me wrong put dr.strange is in a whole different level of strong

[@bloodbrawler1438]

I like to explain it as power vs skill. Wanda has raw untapped power thanks to being a pseudo-Infinity Stone, but Dr Strange has learned to take full (or at least most of) advantage of using magic to at least be on par with or even above Wanda.

[@greenghoul157]

Both are as strong as each other in different ways, they are both powerful magicians

[@tzeechgodofchange3197]

@@greenghoul157 yeah you right

[@mongooseunleashed]

No, you're right. Wanda was stronger in the comics because she went insane. In the movies, Wanda technically didn't use magic. She had some psychic power. It wasn't even until Endgame that she looked stronger than Strange.

[@tzeechgodofchange3197]

@@mongooseunleashed yeah but then you get the refined talent and the raw talent which one would come out on top I have my money on the refined talent winning

[@MaverickhunterXZero]

JAR missed how with Scarlet Witch was emotionally validated for what she did in the series, which is a huge red flag, and seeing some of the upcoming MCU things, there's won't be a shortage to make this a series of videos. Gary Stus happen a lot less frequently then Mary Sues due to the moment there is one, people hate them. With how the current landscape, even disliking a female character brands you as some kind of heretic, so there's no wonder they'd pop up more frequently. Kind of the same with Black Panther; it's fairly mediocre and doesn't make that much sense in the grand scheme, but, you are forbidden to not think it's the best movie in the MCU(at the time before the last 10 best MCU movies) which is a detriment to the characters and story. Also seemed Shuri is insufferable.

[@noahmpinto14]

you know who is a gary sue: Future trunks from dbz and dbs

[@MaverickhunterXZero]

@@noahmpinto14 He gets his ass kicked all the time though. The only time he beat anyone without effort was Freiza and King Cold and it was established earlier that they'd have no change against a Super Saiyan.

[@noahmpinto14]

@@MaverickhunterXZero He also gets a bullshit power up in dbs from out of nowhere with no explanation about how he got it or how it works. He also killed fused zamasu in what is the dumbest ending to a fight/ arc I've ever seen. He even gets a happy ending that negates any purpose/ stakes the arc had. All while his character goes through the same arc he did in DBZ

[@noahmpinto14]

@@MaverickhunterXZero Also now that I think of it; Jiren; Kale; caulifla; andriod 17(TOP); and dbz broly

[@MaverickhunterXZero]

@@noahmpinto14 Kind of looks like every other Time Goku beat big bads with everyone giving him his energy. Honestly, a bit refreshing not to see Goku pop out of nowhere and finish someone off.

[@versus22REALLY]

The writers of what if literally had people coming up with pretty reasonable fan theories about what happened to Thanos but for some weird reason they thought it would be intelligent to debunk this theories

[@Rebelrose]

7:54 I think Rey is good at driving because.. Well she had a speeder on Jakku that she used, possibly her whole life

[@afterburnerdyanite4555]

yes. sadly rey cant have someone be smart in her general area, so instead of her use an actual skill she has they just decided not to.

[@Rebelrose]

@@afterburnerdyanite4555 it's kind of a shame. In my opinion at least, she didn't seem like much of a Mary Sue in the EP 7 excluding the duel with Kylo. But at least they had some sort of story going for it, they would explain how she could.. which ended up being a cop out

[@SpringDavid]

@@Rebelrose the exact reason why you need writers with the same vision

[@Rebelrose]

@@SpringDavid Yeah, It really was a dumb idea for EP 8 to be made by someone else

[@GeorgeDCowley]

@@Rebelrose To be fair, it took a physical and mental beating to bring Kylo down to Rey's level in TFW.

[@aaaah540]

I AGREE WITH YOU ON BLACK PANTHER STAR LORD!! Part of the fun with Peter Quill was how nobody took him seriously as a hero. It really contributed to the comedy of GotG and made Peter relatable. There’s nothing relatable about T’Challa here, though. He’s just perfect at everything and solved all the problems in the universe. Imagine how awful Peter would feel if he ever found out about this alternate timeline and discovered the universe would be objectively better without him. So depressing. (Though, Good Guy Thanos was really cool, ngl)

[@youtubecreators384]

I remember the early days of Teen Titans fan fiction work, where Beast Boy was constantly written as a Gary Stu. I cannot believe I used to like those stories.

[@LadyElfTari]

I think most of the Titans got Suification treatment in that fandom, Raven especially, and they had plenty of OC Mary Sues everywhere too.

[@Abram-Delgado]

I did not like Black Panther as Starlord. It was so bland and dumb.

[@VdeBeltran]

Also Starlord is the name peter moms give him, tchalla shouldnt be starlord

[@supremeconprimeoverlord8114]

Ok Boomer

[@supremeconprimeoverlord8114]

@@VdeBeltran u just mad a black guy stole your gal

[@culturalliberator9425]

Difference is Lancelot was a villain ultimately, and him being perfect was part of a theme.

[@tkgwildfire5339]

Not originally. King Arthur was rewritten over hundreds of years.

[@culturalliberator9425]

@@tkgwildfire5339 Originally

[@notthemama7296]

I think that black panther star lord was close to being a Gary Stew but not completely. Yeah, he had super human charisma but he also used a lot of teamwork, remember Thanos, Gomorrah and the others kept the minions busy while he was fighting the collector (I think this was the same time, I may need to rewatch the episode). I think the bit with the collector was a "you rely to much on things than yourself" bit. Star lord went, learned and trained while the collector was like "I have the better equipment and enhanced body, that means I win...or right not much use when I can't fight that well" overconfidence thing. Once again, have not watched it since the day it came out, memory was a bit fuzzy.

[@oneangrygeek4575]

1- I don't consider Kylo Ren a Gary Stu for 2 reasons: Whenever he becomes angry, he starts breaking his own stuff. For example, how much damage did he cause by destroying walls, monitors and whatever else with his lightsaber. Maybe Starkiller Base would have withstood the big explosion if he hadn't have caused so much structural damage. Also, Rey resisted his mind probe and Finn held up in a duel with him long enough for Rey to come to the rescue. 2- I'm surprised the last episode of What If? wasn't Star Lord T'Challa rehabilitating Ultron by simply saying "Do better".

[@Angwiser-zk7vk]

7:50 “he was a storm trooper so he is good at shooting” 60% of the Star Wars fanbase wants to have a talk with you, the other 40% either thinks their blasters are made in space-China or are salty Chapter 2 Fortnite players

[@righttrain6568]

This reminds me of one of the older versions of one of my ocs Let's just say that his redesign(and basically a total character overhaul) really fixed his OP ass

[@Mysikrysa]

Self-inserts aren´t neccessarily Mary Sues/Gray Stues. Only overpowered, absurdly skilled, smart etc. characters who bend the rules of the universe they are in are Mary Sues/Gray Stues.

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

Self insert + wish fulfillment = Mary Sue.

[@Karak-_-]

Not even those have to belong in Stue family tree, if they have to struggle. My fav fanfic has in universe self insert doing wishfulfilment but it's stull interesting because, it does not go smoothly. At the exact moment they think "all problems are solved" the universe will show them the courtesy and give them a cold shower of "it won't be that easy". Which happens almost every time they try their shenanigans to solve important problems.

[@commonsense5199]

Kylo Ren: The First Order don't tolerate the Weak, Agent Tierny Agent Tierny: Didn't you lost to a girl with No training of the ways of the force? And you fail to make the girl to join us. You had training from both Luke Skywalker and Snoke and you still failed. You didn't even beat Luke, he was holding back(No wise and rational adult would Tried to kill someone on their sleep) I however at least managed to Convince Tamara Syvora to join us, by using my brain and Valid Points. And I came from the scrapes under the New Republic, Your just a sad and entitled little boy that was spoiled by his parents. Kylo Ren forces Chokes Tierny Tierny laughs: You are pathetic. *Agent Tienry* is one of the Best Villain and Good character from the Star Wars sequels which make sense she was created by Dave Filoni. wish she wasn't killed off. Also I want to point out that Kylo Ren wants Rey to Join Him is a Nostalgic Rehash of Empire Strike Back. I said this cause I'm getting more annoyed that People keep Saying that TLJ did something new, original and it doesn't rely on Nostalgia. TLJ is a copy of both Empire Strikes back and ROTJ(Compare Rey surrenders herself still believes there good in Kylo Ren to Luke and Vader in ROTJ and compare Palpatine's Throne Room to Snoke's Throne room). TLJ said let the past die, TLJ is Lying to you

[@sigmagrey3236]

"Fin's good at shooting because he's a stormtrooper." Best. Line. Ever.

[@malikpierre-louis3343]

Stormtroppers were always good at shooting people you just think they aren't because the scene most people refer to is a scene were they are letting the character get away on purpose.

[@andysee6996]

Wasn't Lancelot's affair with Gunivere one of the reasons for the downfall of Camelot? That sounds like it would disqualify him from being a Gary Stu.

[@kamikazoo6599]

I think fall of camelot wasn't in the book where Lancelot was first featured. I think that came with The death of the Arthur.

[@shamarbarrett9958]

But was it writtin by the same person who first introduced the character ?

[@andristudio6327]

@@shamarbarrett9958 nope. The guy who wrote Lancelot first actually presented the affair as a good thing

[@dudenamedzelda3179]

So the names Dante and Virgil are the only things the divine comedy and Devil May Cry share?

[@itsblitz4437]

Man seriously this is what writers in the movie/TV industry is all they can do and make with and still get PAID FOR IT?! With minimal effort!? Seriously as a guy who actually wants to write his own book or TV Series, this makes me sad for humanity we come to this point as this is the norm now.

[@ethankillion786]

Plot devices have Mary Sues, comic books have Gary Stus... Hollywood has Terry Crews. 🤣

[@khfan4life365]

In the Wandavision show, it seemed like the writers didn’t know what to do with Wanda’s powers. They seemed to change her powers to fit what they were writing. Wanda is undoubtedly strong in the comics, but she wasn’t the strongest. Thor and Dr. Strange were more powerful than her. Agatha Harkness was her mentor, meaning Agatha was stronger than her. If I can remember correctly, the comic in which Wandavision was based on ended with Dr. Strange and Agatha stepping in to fix the timeline and clean up the mess Wanda made.

[@DiosaDelOscura]

Wanda in the comics curbstomps all listed characters

[@HighPhoenix1754]

Mmmm.. gotta disagree with the Inu Yasha portion. Here's why. Inu Yasha was the team powerhouse. Full stop. However the rest of the team was far from Useless because even Inu Yasha had his fair share of weaknesses: Having the Charisma of a Brick to the Face being the most obvious, but him being half yokai was also a major one that made him vulnerable and human during certain phases of the moon. Him being half yokai also served as a liability for a while until he got his shit together. Basically the equivalent of a DnD character that was min-maxed and optimized only for combat and survival. Miroku, and Songo while not as powerful as Inu Yasha had a consistency about them that allowed them to function in just about every situation. In fact, they were frequently left to deal with hordes of demons while Inu Yasha and company would be left to deal with the bigger threat.. because, he's the team powerhouse. That's his role and he plays it well. Miroku and Songo also serve as a knowledge base and the talkers for the group and thus had a wider array of uses outside of combat. Inu Yasha? Basically had to wait around while these scenes occured until he had something to fight again. Kagome isn't as tricky because she's literally vital for the plot to happen, due to her unique ability amoung the party to detect and find the shards of the meguffin jewel and is also the only individual with the power of compulsion over Inu Yasha, i.e. the "Sit Boy!" command that is used quite often to both make sure Inu Yasha doesn't get out of hand and also to socialize him. Albeit hilariously. Could even make arguments for Shippo. Because everyone in that group had their role, and combat was far from the only thing that was happening in the series. Unlike the Mary Sues this video is discussing about.

[@Oskanwhitchfather]

Your analogy with Spider-Man doesn't work. He _does_ get a power boost when he stops being responsible. Well, when he stops holding back. See, in one comic storyline, Doc Oc and Spidey switch bodies. Scorpion attack Spider-Man, who's body is currently housing the mind of Doc Oc, and Doc-Spider *_punches Scorpion's jaw off._* Doc Oc realizes in that moment "holy shit. If Parker ever stop holding back, he'd kill us all."

[@SlimSamari]

Also Peter doesn't want to crush his web shooters.

[@doomzillaX25]

That's not a power boost, that is power he has always had that. He just doesn't use because he doesn't want to kill anyone. A power boost would be gaining access to power he did not previously have, like Goku going Super Saiyan for the first time.

[@alldayagain]

On point of Thanos' plan, it actually worked better using the Comics' lore. He didn't want to make sure the universe would survive by ensuring there wasn't too many people, he just wanted to kill half the universe as a gift to death so she'd date him.

[@darktigersharkmax4432]

I always hated when captain marvel just eats thanos' headbutt and forced him to use an infinite stones like yeah "finally Thanos gets his shit rocked" but at the same time "wtf is this?"

[@oxcare5]

I personally wouldn't mind Thanos needing to use an infinity stone to cause serious damage to Captain Marvel due to Captain Marvel also being powered by an infinity stone (or that's how I saw it at least, I only saw Captain Marvel once in the cinemas), but her just not flinching at all is just annoying.

[@EsoiTheGrumpyMawile]

@@oxcare5 I'm pretty sure the reason she doesn't flinch is because Brie larson can't be bothered to act anymore after she got that Oscar.

[@wrongthinker843]

On that note, if anyone should have been able to go toe-to-toe with Thanos, it should have been Hulk. The entire damn point of Hulk is that he is equivalent to a force of nature but largely lacks intelligence. They basically ruined him entirely.

[@KeripiK_CTMM]

i highly appreciate the sonic cd music, especially the jp/eu list

[@Crackmiser]

Kylo did not beat luke he caused the ceiling to cave in and he got knocked out. In an actual fight Kylo wouldn’t stand a chance. I usually have no issues with your videos but that one is just incorrect

[@minidwarf4266]

I know I'm late to the conversation but I thought the whole point of Loke was that they needed another Loki because of how unpredictable a Loki is..... I felt for the most part they did a good job of making eachother similar in power level in that show but I feel we will never see that again

[@MALICEM12]

I'm of the E;R mindset that Mary Sues and Gary Stus, while similar are different. As men and women are different so most often so to are their ideal forms. So you pulling up Lancelot and Dante as examples of Mary Sues falls short.

[@tyrantking9000]

"If character B could beat character A, but if character C could beat character B, that means character C is more powerful A." Unless Character A isn't as powerful as they usually are, or shit is pushed into character C's standing.

[@ChallengeIdeas]

Fighting isn't straight power, either. Character B might just have advantages over A that he doesn't over C, and thus A can still stomp C into a mud puddle.

[@Megatron_95]

I remember the Dante's Inferno game. It was the clone version of God of War

[@HaruWuu]

It was yet very interesting.

[@johngonzalez2495]

@@HaruWuulol and unlike Kratos, I find myself rooting for Dante more as he's forced to reflect on his own sins

[@HaruWuu]

@@johngonzalez2495 same as well. I really like his fight with death a lot lol.

[@johngonzalez2495]

@@HaruWuu Right? It's satisfying to see him panic once you take his scythe! I just bought the game and am relieving the old days!

[@HaruWuu]

@@johngonzalez2495 it is, makes me want to watch the whole thing again lol.

[@SnuSnuDungeon]

I'd like to think Disney's Sue problem is misguided pandering if I wasn't so cynical

[@Cloud_Seeker]

"A big reason Rey gets called a Mary Sue is because she beat Luke Skywalker" - No. She was called a Mary Sue before TLJ was even made. The biggest reason she is called a Mary Sue is because she just succeed and bearly understand why or how she did what she did. Fly a ship she never flown before? She is a ace pilot. Repair ships she never been in before? She knows exactly what to do based on rumors she heard. What about CQC? She is an expert fighter that can hold her own no problem. Finding a rare and lost Jedi weapon? She is choosen by fate. All of this is from TFA and not TLJ. TLJ just sealed the deal that she was a Mary Sue.

[@emblemblade9245]

Pretty sure that “sealed the deal” reason is why it’s the one that was mentioned. It was the one that really made people turn heads, point fingers, and feel totally confident in the conclusion that she is one

[@Cloud_Seeker]

@@emblemblade9245 I don't agree. He said that "the big reason was X" when it was actually cumulative of reasons in the previous and in the movie itself. Lets not forget how she moved a mountain of rocks without any effort (even thinking the effort was to easy for her) at the end of the movie. I also do not remember how people said the fight with Luke was the biggest issue. People even when TLJ came out, the Luke fight was just tacked onto the Kylo fight. The "She defeated Kylo and Luke skywalker in a fight without any real training at all". JUST A ROBOT is just wrong. The reason were several reasons over the course of the movie. I think hetakes the argument fans presented and split them up. The Kylo argument predates the Luke argument, and they were often brought up together in the same argument. When Luke was the only example, it was mostly just when TLJ was under the knife and TFA was ignored. It wasn't the fight with Luke that sealed the deal. It was the movie as a whole that sealed the deal.

[@da-vidcargill4975]

@@Cloud_Seeker dude wtf you chatting, 1) there are explanations to her abilities you lots just want to be spoonfed on it, she has flown ships before, she is a scavenger so she has knowledge of the layout of certain types of ships and she had beginner's luck and help from the force, stop using that crap knowledge when luke who had 1 year of training beat DARTH VADER who had 22 years of experience with a lightsaber and killed JEDI MASTERS who had more experience than him

[@da-vidcargill4975]

plus in ep 9 kylo showed he was way stringer than her and almost killed her if it was not for leia's interruption

[@Cloud_Seeker]

@@da-vidcargill4975 Just because you have some throwaway lines does not mean you explain or foreshadow it. " she has flown ships before" - But she hasn't flown off planet and never flow the Millennium Falcon. Just because you have have driven a car before does not mean you have the expert skills of a professional driver. Just because she has flown a ship before does not mean she should be able to pull of the stunts she did. "she is a scavenger so she has knowledge of the layout of certain types of ships" - Completely irrelevant. Just because you have knowledge of a Formula One circuit doesn't mean you can pull that circuit off like a F1 driver. "and she had beginner's luck and help from the force" - This is absolutely a horrible argument since it only proves my point. Any beginner's luck should also be removed by the inexperience from them, you also have to remember that the Tie Fighter pilots are not beginners as well. To say Rey is a beginner harms your own argument since it means she does things well outside her own knowledge and skill. And to use the force is literally saying "magic power made her better". Congrats. You proved she is being a Mary Sue for the sake of flashy scenes. "stop using that crap knowledge when luke who had 1 year of training beat DARTH VADER who had 22 years of experience with a lightsaber and killed JEDI MASTERS who had more experience than him" - Apart from that is false. The skip between Episode 4 and 5 is three years. The skip between episode 5 and 6 is one year. So at the very least it is 4 years. You do have a point and I am not going to lie about that. However you forget a thing about experience. You don't keep growing in experience until you become a unbeatable super soldier. After a time your abilities gets worse and you are set in your ways unable to adapt. Its funny that you think time do not work both ways. Sure. Darth Vader has more experience in combat, but so does Luke at that point. Luke is also younger and youthful and Darth Vader is old. Do we send out our old men into combat or do we send out our young men that "lack experience" in real life? So far you have no proven anything. What you have shown however is my point still holds.

[@RaphBlade7]

The scene with Finn being a better shot should have been left in as it makes perfect sense as he's been trained as a soldier his whole life, but like the Clone Troopers from the Clone Wars series, he's a heroic figure thus a better shot than the notoriously bad Stormtroopers (unless their taking on Jawas or a couple of moisture farmers)! It would also give Rey something she doesn't excel at, nor does her Force sensitivity give her advantage, like with piloting as Jedi have a long history of being decent to skilled pilots so her being a better pilot is consistent with the series lore! Firing a blaster is at least something she doesn't excel at, thus less of a Mary Sue & would thematically work with her picking up a Lightsaber against Kylo! But of course, Disney was too blind to realize how the deleted scene helps both Rey & Finn!

[@camarokidbb4347]

Is it wrong I love how *cursed* the original Mary Sue was?

[@ChallengeIdeas]

Have you ever read Ensign Sue Must Die?

[@rainershea3880]

The Mulan live action remake gives me the same vibes as the Last Airbender Movie. It’s just more technically competent.

[@redx5605]

Oh I agreed BP:SL is a Gary stu but at least it makes more sense besides the Thanks part I believe T'Chala could do what he did in that what if. But I might just be bias who knows

[@MasterTSayge]

At least Black Panther lord was a extremely likable and charming guy.

[@frostreaper1607]

Holy hell, Black Panter Starlord sounds like it was written by a young angsty teenager, even Idid better when I was starting out with writing.

[@DwightJames-eo9wk]

I feel like Lancelot does not really count as a Mary Sue in the traditional sense. Mostly because he actually has several flaws. He also started off as a throwaway character. The reason he became more perfect was because he became extremely popular. His son Galahad would have been a better example.

[@lightninghawk1014]

I used to make Gary Sue type characters when I was younger, nowadays I have to wonder if I’m torturing my characters too much with how much crap I put them through and if I went too far in certain places.

[@i_Hate_All_of_You420]

Still has me cracking up that thanos literally punched captain marvel away like a horsefly and she never shows up until the end of the film. Proves she honestly shouldn't have participated in the first place since she's more useful off the field then on

[@GJYYNGII]

Seeing JAR with All Might's face is blursed.

[@Snowthree]

My general rule for Sue-ness is how much the world is warped (not the same as characters with reality altering powers or whatever) in order to accommodate them. It's not that Black Panther would have made a better Star Lord, it's that the world warps around him in order to justify that he would be a better Star Lord. It's not that Mulan is... whatever... it's that the world warps around her in order to make that point. I can buy a character discarding their disguise as a man and embracing their femininity giving them a power boost. I CAN'T buy that a girl with such blatant power and skills would be so absurdly powerful both in that setting and that the story would effectively warp to show she was basically always in the right. In the original part of what made her grow as a person WAS her training. She was just a screw-up girl who took her father's place so he wouldn't have to fight and had to work hard to even become viable which also served as part of her character growth (remember, it was implied she was the best soldier towards the end of the song when she was the worst at the start). The world didn't warp around her to justify her point even though it was discarding her male identity that helped her win in the end (and she got punished when it got revealed but that's sort of irrelevant).

[@youngbounty1394]

My issue with all powerful characters is when they can have all this power and skill with no training, but then have no consequences. Aang was super powerful, but he had to train in order to use those powers correctly and even then, he has hurt his friends and others from using said powers. Even the consequences of his past lives effect him. Aang couldn’t just throw his weight around without paying the price. Jimmy Neutron was powerful in being smart, but being a genius never came without consequences. Because he was smart, he was able to launch a message thing to other aliens that included the location of his home planet, resulting in the abduction of all the adults of the world. That’s not even the worst mistake he had done that came from being a genius. He is still a child and the idea he had an overly powerful skill of knowledge makes it dangerous without the wisdom and common sense most adults have to know that you should always take caution when talking to strangers. To me, what makes someone a Mary-sue is when they’re so perfect that not even the plot effects them. They can throw their weight around without any consequences. Disney doesn’t seem to understand the concept of characters needing to be human and learn how to be a good person. Not to say the character can’t be morally perfect, but there does have to be a basis such as being raised by a good family. Even so, they still need to be given consequences for being perfectly and morally good. Not everyone likes someone that’s perfectly and morally good for many reasons, most of it being that this good person makes them feel insecure and awful about themselves. Disney once made very good characters that had to work and suffer to get their happy ending. Now, they just have to be powerful and badass.

[@kelsothesarcasmpirate]

I can't disagree with anything in this video. Though the 'holding back flaw' can work, but usually has to be accompanied by other things. Think of Thor in Ragnarok where he becomes even more powerful than he was with his hammer, and that the hammer was there to help him control them and sorta dampened them. But in his case it was more an issue of self worth and belief, after the death of his father. And Thor still failed. Twice.

[@modmaker7617]

Yeah, Thor never won against Hela in Ragnarok. The film ends, with him literally running away and leaving Hela to someone else, Surtur. That's how to wring a good consistent character.

[@wrongthinker843]

The "holding back" can be played as a straight flaw if not holding back causes massive collateral damage and possibly makes things worse as a result. It doesn't work as a flaw if it just makes them win (or win even harder).

[@pamelotms5867]

Honestly it doesnt even matter how powerfull a charechter is or even how they got to that point if they are an interesting charechter. Thou having explenations is nice

[@cosmicspacething3474]

I think Lancelot’s character was fixed in later iterations, because from what I’ve seen, him banging the Kings wife leads to his downfall

[@slippery4664]

3:14 this point has always bugged me and here’s why so before this fight back when Kyle killed Han you see chewbaca shoot him with a Wookiee crossbow,and it is shown to be pretty dam powerful in the film because most of the time the people who get shot by it get 1 hit.The fact that Kylo didn’t die was kinda insane.So keep that bit of information in mind,this fight was not a fair fight.Kylo when this fight started basically lost half of his hp when he got shot by chewbacca.So what I am trying to say is that Rey didn’t win cuz she’s naturally stronger than Kylo no it’s because he was already extremely hurt when the fight began.So what I am trying to say is it wasn’t really a fair fight for Kylo.If Kylo was at full hp he probably would have won.If he were at full hp and he still lost then I would see were you are coming from.It just really bugs me when people just skip over things that are shown to the audience.

[@ChallengeIdeas]

To be fair, this was when they were still working from the idea that Rey was being fed information by Luke, remotely and without her knowing it. Silly idea, but at least the power wasn't hers from being Special(tm). So it was technically Luke vs. Kylo. That being said, with that avenue never materializing, she manifests a lot of "better than the canons" abilities throughout the film that are instantly hers without enough justification ("I bypassed the compressor!"), and everyone who isn't a villain just absolutely loves her despite knowing her for all of ten minutes.

[@straightjacket308]

I NEVER thought about the Kylo Gary Stu thing!!! That is actually astounding and aggravates me again 🤣🤣🤣 Dante and Bayonetta are the best examples of how to make Gary Stu and Mary Sue characters likable. Maybe Disney should take a note from them.

[@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme]

15:02 Yaknow it's funny Robot that you bring up how none nada no one of the characters opposing thanos actually debates with Thanos in a substantive way. They just decided, he's gonna use the Stones to erase half the universe, and the Heroes are painted as mindlessly driven to defeat him cause he's simply the bad guy doing the bad guy things, Not even a five Ws conversation with him. Kay and Skittles makes Excellent points about this. About how Marvel has a clever trick to making Villains, were instead of being Cartoonishly evil and murder happy for the pleasure of it, their best villains are people who have good intentions but those good intentions are condemned as "Bad" when they resort to murder, crime, terrorism etc, and the Villains lose but any meaningful attempt to upend the status quo is thwarted.

[@JUSTAROBOT_AKA_JAR]

so none of this would have happened if they talked? none of the billions he killed tried?

[@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme]

@@JUSTAROBOT_AKA_JAR I doubt 🧐 he would have been convinced so easily in the Actual Story. I know very well that when Thanos has a goal he's going to stick to his guns. I was saying how in hindsight it's pretty funny how he was convinced in an Alternate History and by a Character that wasn't even a very pivotal in the comics universe but because of our Contemporary sensibilities they made a story where T'challa is the big cheese of the story.

[@wrongthinker843]

@@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme In the comics Thanos did it to court the literal avatar of death, not for some "misguided greater good", so...

[@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme]

@@wrongthinker843 You mean the Cosmic Embodiment of Death.

[@grimrocket5592]

to be fair on your point with tfaws, the flag smasher girl was the leader of the main villain group and only took up a lot of screen time in like 1 episode lmao. I think it actually would of have made even less sense if they beat the royal gaurd. sam didnt have a suit, bucky wasnt trying, and the new captain america didnt have the super serum+ it was like a 4v1 and theyre all super soldiers, theres no way hed win realistically.

[@kuitaranheatmorus9932]

I always love a good JAR video,so that's pretty good,and lovely. Also hope yall a good day.

[@veggsbacon1891]

Robot talking about mary sues as Sonic CD music plays in the background. Nice. 👍🏽

[@BenHyuga]

And here i thought the title "Disney sue" was about disney suing everyone as usual

[@jeffreycn1]

One critical point you left out of Luke vs. Kylo Ren. Luke intended to kill him, but hesitated. It was because of that hesitation that Kylo was able to overpower him.

[@jviper2004]

I think I've noticed a trend with these so called (m/g)ary (sue/stu)s, and that is their writers failing to full write their characters.