The Diviner A Treantmonk Build Guide Levels 5-10

[@SharanjitPaddam]

Build Summary 1: Variant Human, Int Con, War caster, Perception, 9/14/13/15/13/8. Cleric 1, Knowledge, Arcana, History, Religion, Insight. Sage, Acrobatics, Investigation. Guidance, Light, Mending, Bless, Healing Word. Mace (sell), Scale Mail (half plate), Light Crossbow, Shield, Emblem. 2: Wizard 1, Component Pouch, Minor Illusion, Ray of Frost, Toll the Dead, Find Familiar, Shield*, Absorb Elements*, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter*, Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages. Shield, (crossbow). 3: Wizard 2, Diviner, Feather Fall*, Magic Missile* 4: Wizard 3, Web*, Suggestion 5: Wizard 4, Alert, Blindness/Deafness*, Flaming Sphere 6: Wizard 5, Prestidigitation, Counter spell*, Fear* 7: Wizard 6, Thunder Step*, Leomund’s Tiny Hut 8: Wizard 7, Arcane Eye*, Polymorph*, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter(*) 9: Wizard 8, ASI Int x2, Banishment*, Detect Thoughts* 10: Wizard 9, Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Wall of Force*

[@XanderDraft]

Sharanjit Paddam thank you very much for your hard work.

[@daxdleader719]

I actually really like Alert on this build from an rp standpoint. Hard to be surprised if you can see the future.

[@skullkrusher-dx4kg]

I like using lucky and portents to pretend I'm manipulating reality lol. It works well with this kind of character to.

[@breyor1]

skullkrusher1999 I like using it to make it appear your being protected by a divine force

[@DJDJCOXCOX]

I never thanked you for this video, so, thank you. It’s been very helpful as a new wizard.

[@smbakeresq]

I do think Hypnotic Pattern and Fear are better spells, but I have always got more mileage out of Slow since it is much easier to target in general and especially target multiple enemies in various positions in a melee. It’s a 40 ft 3D cube, so that’s pretty big, and wisdom isn’t a bad save target. The variety of effects and ease in targeting to me makes it more effective in a greater number of situations then Pattern or Fear. YMMV though.

[@brucewish7137]

and against undead and constructs it is the only one that works

[@AsheandCinders]

Your description of Alert here just made me realize how massively powerful the feat is if combined with fog cloud. Enemies attacking you in a fog cloud would just get flat disadvantage, rather than all attacks becoming flat rolls without advantage or disadvantage, something like this would be really good on a two-handing tempest cleric for example.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Yes, I talk about that combo in my conjurer vid.

[@murtaniel]

Ow you need to see that in old editions, god was a true god back then

[@alanschaub147]

I am still trying to figure out how Blind Fighting, Fog Cloud, Alert, and Hide all work together. I am not sure if the Tasha’s version of Blind Fighting requires Alert to make it work, like the UA version did. Maybe just against ranged attacks? It seems like a Goblin with that Bonus Action Hide racial ability would be really good to set up with all these features.

[@sesimie]

Since Baldur's gate 1 (2e rules in a CRPG) i was introduced to multiclassing. Quayle a Party member was a Cleric/Wiz. he was the last one to survive in the last Boss Battle. It always stuck in my mind and i eventually became a more support oriented player in group type games. Since I've researched all the classes i'm set to play a Wizard. So i wannah have fun as a new Wizard player hence Diviner. I absolutely love your videos. I learn not just the Class specifics but how to play using tactical concepts and tricks. Thank you.

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

In BGII, IMO Dual Classing, which is no longer available (F for Respects), was strictly superior over time to multiclassing. Even for that kind of thing. You would be able to do what's now called "dipping," but could really excel at it. (Current multiclassing is arguably closer to dual classing than it is to old-school multiclassing, but it suffers from other drawbacks. It's still fine, but you can't build what you could back in the day). Imoen was a solid example of what could be done with dual-classing. My own main for my own most memorable BGII run-through did that but moar, with Swashbuckler-Rogue kit and mage. But you can definately dual other characters in that game for excellent results.

[@acm4bass]

An argument in support of Hideous Laughter, at the level you dropped it you will be facing creatures with Legendary Resistance. You will need a means to burn though those without wasting your best spells.

[@ben5056]

I think he doesn't like the concept of burning through legendary resistances. He prefers to get around them.

[@acm4bass]

@@ben5056 I think the choice though would depend on your party, and its ability to assist. Still some of his comments go back on that idea....up-casting banishment without portent at high level is questionable. I think you need to plan to utilize both strategies. Maze is great for LR creatures, but The dm needs to provide a worthy fight so eventually you will need to plan on other contingencies.

[@ben5056]

@Alexander Maxwell if the party is able help bring down the LRs with similar low level very inconvenient (for the bad guy) spell effects, you could make a good case for it. But if the party doesn’t or can’t help you are wasting at best 3 rounds.

[@smbakeresq]

But you did waste 3 actions getting through LR. There is something better to do most cases.

[@ben5056]

@smbakeresq might be better with a spell were multiple saves need to be made like with the contagion spell. But yes burning through LRs is expensive.

[@joek7621]

I’ve actually been playing this build for a while now in my Dragonheist campaign purely by luck as a result of my character idea(slightly shameless rip off of harry dresdan), however i couldnt cope with not getting L3 spells at L5 so took a level of knowledge cleric at L6. Worked out well for me so far 🤞

[@lyracian]

I went with High Elf when building my Wizard with Cleric dip that way I started with an attack cantrip using INT at level 1. It also allowed me to have a 14 WIZ as as well as 14 DEX as I dislike having a 13 in a stat. Just got to level 7 and I have been up-casting Flaming Sphere in my slots. It was good to see some suggestions for other spells to use, like Banishment, at higher levels.

[@GoticaArcana]

So you have a Constitution of 12?

[@icebarrierangel6610]

8/14/14/16/14/8

[@druxusthemage9806]

A second lvl mindspike could help you recover spell slots it an attack divination spell

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I'm not a fan. You trade a 2nd level slot for a first level slot, you use up a spell selection, a spell preparation, and concentration. All you get in return is damage comparable with a cantrip (cast at 6th level) and a very circumstantial tracking (on a failed save)

[@roberttschaefer]

Mind Spike has one very important use for the Diviner Wizard in mid levels. It is brilliant to cast Mind Spike upcast at 4th Level, in order to regain a 3rd level spell slot. So fireball, then mind spike, and you get back a third level spell, which can be used for suggestion or counterspell. If ONLY Mind Spike wasn’t a concentration spell it would be terrific for this build. However, in mid-levels when spell slot management can be a real challenge, this is a great tactic. Combine this trick with a Pearl of Power and you can regain TWO third level spell slots for one upcasted fourth level spell.

[@skullkrusher-dx4kg]

What do you think of tashas mind whip?

[@jrg305]

If you're a character that gets non concentration flying (genie warlock) your fear spell kinda becomes a circle you can aim better and stay ranged... And they have trouble getting out of line of sight if you're flying.

[@pedrostormrage]

12:22 That got me thinking; I really like Expert Divination but I'm still not sure how to make the most out of it. I've seen people trying to make a case for Mind Spike (a 2nd level spell), but the fact it requires concentration (meaning you can't cast it and still maintain concentration on whatever control spell you should be casting on round 1) seems to be a dealbreaker. There's also the fact it deals at most 3d8 damage (3 * 4.5 = 13.5 on average), which is less than the guaranteed 4d4+4 damage (4 * 2.5 + 4 = 14 on average) you'd get from a magic missile cast at 2nd level. For the first problem (about casting divination spells before casting any others), the answer might be on using (or getting access to) long duration buffing spells. It's not the case of this build (since you got Medium Armor and Shield proficiencies from the 1st level in Cleric), but having/casting something like Detect Thoughts (2nd level) could make up for the "Mage Armor tax" (since it's a long duration buff you really need if you have no armor proficiencies). Alternatively, maybe you could regain a slot used to cast Gift of Alacrity (which you can learn from the Fey Touched feat, but that might not be that useful, since the feat itself already lets you cast it once per long rest, and it lasts 8 hours). Other races that give access to interesting buffs are Variant Human: Mark of Sentinel (Death Ward - 4th level spell) and Mark of Hospitality Halfling (Aid - upcastable 2nd level spell), but that would come at the cost of picking a Feat at level 1 as a variant human. Still, I think the Mark of Hospitality Halfling with Aid (on top of Lucky, Brave, Nimble, Prestidigitation, Purify Food and Drink and Unseen Servant) sounds like an interesting option to deal with that issue. For the second problem (not having a lot of great divination spells available), I guess there's not much to be done, since that's a design issue.

[@Ciberbuster]

I've used tiny servant in combination with arcane eye at the start of the adventuring day (recover the 3rd lvl slot, later using scrying to recover a 4th lvl slot of 3 tiny servants). Tiny servants are a great way to gain extra actions for using magic items o help actions every round.

[@LG-gn9cx]

I have a 10th level build cap, and I have limited choices. So my spell selection was a little different. Also I chose Arcana, History, Investigation, Insight, Religion, Perception, and Stealth. Going to have to wear a Breastplate though. These are my spells in the order I selected them: Cleric: Guidance, Light, Spare the Dying, Bless or Shield of Faith, Cure Wounds, and the Domain Spells. Cantrips: Firebolt, Ray of Frost, Mage Hand, and Minor Illusion. 1st: Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Sleep, Shield, Absorb Elements, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Magic Missile, Comprehend Languages. Swapped out Sleep for Grease. I will somehow get Tenser's Floating Disk in here as well. 2nd: Web, Misty Step, Suggestion, Blindness/ Deafness. 3rd: Slow, Counterspell, Leomond's Tiny Hut, Fireball. 4th: Arcane Eye, Polymorph, Dimension Door, Charm Monster (using a 5th level slot, it twins too, but doesn't use concentration). 5th: Wall of Force, Animate Objects. I didn't take Rary's Telepathic Bond because in BG3 your party has tadpoles in their heads, which seems to link the party telepathically. I thought about Scrying since we will likely be hunting Mind Flayers. Maybe Contact Other Plane would be useful. I'll see when I get that far.

[@smbakeresq]

I also like sleet storm, but as a player and DM you must discuss how it works with DM. Think about the application, you drop a cloud of sleet and fog over a group, so that group won’t know how deep the field is in each direction. They might just charge out in the direction that they remember you being in, some might try to retreat out of it, a Wizard might know the spell itself and understand what happened. I play the bad guys according to their INT and WIS scores, but the decision isn’t always clear cut. Also, will your dm allow you to target a square you can’t see, ie. will they allow you to send a fireball blind into a square 40’ away? Ask first.

[@ty88]

Why doesn't anyone mention Bestow Curse for a diviner? It's a staple in my build because you can still attack the cursed target and as long as you maintain concentration, they're cursed. Even if they roll out of it one turn they still have to roll out of it on subsequent turns. Also, you can have your familiar deliver the spell with its reaction, so a hawk or owl can fly 120ft and touch the target.

[@wassentme1891]

Tasha's Hideous Laughter has a really similar effect. Is the increased duration enough to justify the higher-level cost?

[@williamcullen8756]

Why not take Lucky? I've see two other vids and they say Lucky is "Must-Have" and recommend it at level 1. Is Alert better than Lucky for Portent?

[@BlackTempleGaurdian]

I coulda swore I just heard mention of "Detect Thot"

[@mrsjg224]

I play this build and I chose sacred flame as a cantrip. I know it is based off your wisdom DC, but it is cleric only and it combos with wall of force, which is wizard only. Sacred flame ignores cover, so you can trap them in a sphere of force, no save, and drop sacred flames repeatedly on them until they die.

[@nickgutierrez83]

I'd love to see a 5r version of this build.

[@robsilvarn]

What do you think about the spell Mind Spike?

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

> Auger When does he get the tool proficiency? You don't cover the tactics of augering things. Is it to create pits for battlefield control?

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

before someone replies as if the above is a srs misunderstanding of auger/auger - I know what an auger is in the context of divining. plox! *whacks people on the back of the head with a wooden spoon*

[@ben5056]

@@Porphyrogenitus1 I thought it was supposed to be spelled "Augur"

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

@@ben5056 kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3vTn4ydabGlqNU

[@ben5056]

@@Porphyrogenitus1 lol fair

[@ben5056]

@@sharkforce8147 Definitely

[@mattnykamp2861]

Treant, what modifications would you make to this character is they were to remain as a researcher in a base vs being a full party member.

[@PowderKeg3838]

False Life is a great spell to use your 4th level slot on.

[@gigglestomp5403]

Great video and I agree with Detect Thoughts I had a good time using it in the political campaign we were in where our handlers kept screwing us. One note: Detect thoughts is for creatures within 30ft you can see. So you cant use it to find creatures.

[@mikehalloran93]

The first half of the spell is about creatures you can see. The second half says, "You can also use this spell to detect the presence of thinking creatures you can't see."

[@michaelburton286]

This was made a while ago. If you were to make one now what would be different?

[@valentinrafael9201]

5e hasn’t changed in terms of rules. All the things work today as well

[@carsenik7143]

I took Gnome as race so dont get feat at 1st lvl. So at lv 5 wiz do you take War Caster or Alert still? When would you try and get War Caster?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I would take Warcaster over Alert 10 times out of 10.

[@alanschaub147]

@@TreantmonksTemple Will you please build an optimized dueling caster, like to defeat other casters?

[@smbakeresq]

A very important thing TM goes over here people is that you when you MC you will have spell slots with no spell known of that level you so you need to find spells that upcast well. You shouldn't MC without thinking about that. For Wizards there are some tough choices, for example for Clerics you can always cast Aid or Spirit Guardians in that higher level slot.

[@aaronrodriguez9376]

Why do you get 2 spells when you get to level 5.

[@ryanhodge8714]

If you are playing in a lvl 10 end campaign, is it worth taking alert instead of your ASI? You'll never hit 20 int if you do this.

[@princesspunkinn9958]

I was watching this to find out about the divination specialist. I can choose my own spells and ability scores and race. I only want to know what is unique to wizards who specialize in divination. I the first two videos on this and if you said anything about divination I didn't hear it.

[@DW221090]

Well, Portent might be the best ability in the game. So just that might make it worth it.

[@finnianquail8881]

portent lol

[@christophersauer9919]

Thank you.

[@johnpaullogan1365]

is tashas mind spike better than blindness/deafness

[@geraldosantos6878]

All those moments when you have spell slots for some level, but cannot use spells of that level. Is it really worthy get that 1o level as a cleric?

[@lipeeefl]

my problem with web is that we find ourselves in open field a lot in the campaing I'm playing, and when not in open field the points to hold the web sometimes are too far from each other

[@brucewish7137]

dude you can just cast it on the ground

[@lipeeefl]

@@brucewish7137 yep. Myself from 3 months didn't know that apparently

[@jand.4737]

Why does DDB rename Nystul's magic aura into Arcanist's magic Aura, but keeps Agganazzar's Scorcher the same? that's odd

[@acm4bass]

Nystul, melf and other are proprietary names of previous editions and the use of the names would require DDB to pay rights to Wotc. Aggranazzar is newer content and was included when Xanthars came out ...so short answer legal reasons.

[@jand.4737]

@@acm4bass but they are allowed to use all the other names? even Leomund's tiny hut, Mordenkainen's Sword, etc? Spells that are not in Xanathar's but in the PHB. I know that the SRD cut the lore names from all spells, but when you own the PHB, like it is the case here, why do some spells get the names back and other's don't?

[@conradkorbol]

Kapitän JadeDejavu I have noticed they typically have both names in there if you have all the books. So they have the SRD version as well

[@vine_teodoro]

Web work in lvl 8+?

[@DW221090]

What do you think about grabbing the lucky feat at level 4 wizard instead of alert? I feel like it provides much of the same benefit of winning the initiative, as well as doing lots of other stuff. Plus it's fun!

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Taking the Lucky feat is pretty much never a bad decision. It's so versatile.

[@Lastofthesigilites]

I'd make sure you get tongues. Cast that on your lesser vocal allies or someone that doesn't speak your language and you've got your other slots available

[@SANSd20]

Don't you get that extra cantrip at lvl 5, not at 6?

[@geniumme2502]

we are doing the god wizard tactics: not being in combat xD

[@hungry0154]

Detect thoughts won't help detect things as it only works if you can see them and they are within 30 feet.

[@valentinrafael9201]

For the duration, you can read the thoughts of certain creatures. That’s what it does when you cast it. It has a Target: Self cast. Lets move on You can also use this spell to detect the presence of thinking creatures you can’t see. When you cast the spell or as your action during the duration, you can search for thoughts within 30 feet of you. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 2 feet of rock, 2 inches of any metal other than lead, or a thin sheet of lead blocks you. You can’t detect a creature with an Intelligence of 3 or lower or one that doesn’t speak any language. Once you detect the presence of a creature in this way, you can read its thoughts for the rest of the duration as described above, even if you can’t see it, but it must still be within range. Hope this helped you understand it better!