The Diviner A Treantmonk Build Guide Levels 11-20

[@SharanjitPaddam]

Build Summary 1: Variant Human, Int Con, War caster, Perception, 9/14/13/15/13/8. Cleric 1, Knowledge, Arcana, History, Religion, Insight. Sage, Acrobatics, Investigation. Guidance, Light, Mending, Bless, Healing Word. Mace (sell), Scale Mail (half plate), Light Crossbow, Shield, Emblem. 2: Wizard 1, Component Pouch, Minor Illusion, Ray of Frost, Toll the Dead, Find Familiar, Shield*, Absorb Elements*, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter*, Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages. Shield, (crossbow). 3: Wizard 2, Diviner, Feather Fall*, Magic Missile* 4: Wizard 3, Web*, Suggestion 5: Wizard 4, Alert, Blindness/Deafness*, Flaming Sphere 6: Wizard 5, Prestidigitation, Counter spell*, Fear* 7: Wizard 6, Thunder Step*, Leomund’s Tiny Hut 8: Wizard 7, Arcane Eye*, Polymorph*, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter(*) 9: Wizard 8, ASI Int x2, Banishment*, Detect Thoughts* 10: Wizard 9, Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Wall of Force* 11: Wizard 10, Mage Hand, Conjure Elemental*, Transmute Rock* 13: Wizard 12, ASI INT x2, Contingency, True Seeing*, Mass Suggestion*, Eyebite*, Polynorph(*) 15: Wizard 14, Forcecage*, Simulacrum, Teleport*, Reverse Gravity* 17: Wizard 16, Resilient Constitution, Illusory Dragon*, Clone, Mind Blank*, Demiplane 19: Wizard 18, Spell Mastery: Detect Thoughts, Shield; Wish, True Polymorph, Prismatic Wall*, Shape Change* 20: Cleric 2, Ceremony

[@fortunatus1]

Personally, I would not take the level 2 Cleric level. I'd take the level 19 Wizard level and take the Lucky feat. It's more thematic for the Augur and really enhances your capabilities. It essentially doubles your portents.

[@morganpetros9635]

Dammit, I was just writing a reply that was essentially the same as this one when I read down a couple of paragraphs. ;) But yeah, I find the Lucky feat to be super appropriate to the Diviner wizard. Now we just need to use Tasha's Customized Origins to give halflings an INT boost, and instead of calling him "the Augur," we could just call him "Lucky McSpellcaster."

[@RavenWolfStarcraft2]

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate how you have a thematic bias in your character creation. I'm never the type of player to hate on a hexblade/paladin with no RP reasoning (we all enjoy for different reasons), but I enjoy when a character picks something that makes sense even if it's not the very best choice mechanically.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Thanks! I've always been of the idea that you come up with a concept for the character first, then use the mechanics to bring the concept to life. However, I'm no slave to flavor text, I'll come up with my own, so I generally don't worry how the flavor text of Hexblade and Paladin would go together if the mechanics work best for the concept I have.

[@ChristnThms]

Bravo. I appreciate the fact that each choice is explained, at least briefly, instead of just saying "choose this, it's best." I know that Diviners are considered top tier of wizard subclasses, and transmuters are among the lowest ranked. But I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do with the transmuter spells and subclass features. I can imagine some of them being game changing at nearly the same level as the diviner.

[@44tuck3r]

Christian Swensen Are they really? I find it interesting that Transmutation, Evocation and Conjuration alone make up more than half of all the spells on the Wizard list, and more than half the spells on all lists overall.

[@ChristnThms]

@@44tuck3r from what I hear, yes. I think it's because the transmuter features are more exploration centered than combat. When played as a god wizard though, I think it can be a strong subclass.

[@44tuck3r]

Christian Swensen Or maybe buff/debuff

[@ChristnThms]

@@44tuck3r I think the fact that most spells with a duration are concentration really nerfs the idea of buffs/debuffs in 5e. I mean, if there can only be 1 concentration spell up, why use it for a debuff when you can use it for Hypnotic Patter or similar? When a greater number of players begin using the magic system for control, it becomes more possible. But when 99% of the player base cannot see anything but damage as valuable, debuffs fall behind hard control and direct damage.

[@44tuck3r]

Christian Swensen Totally. When I first started reading the treantmonk guide to wizards a while ago I had been surprised by that fact. As I have had more opportunities to look at the spells and see how things play out in combat, it makes a lot more sense now. The god wizard playstyle may be easily overlooked by people that think they should be dealing damage. But if played correctly (and with fortune’s favor) an effctive god wizard will have made the fight easier for everyone. The feeling of the combat having been easy is the thing that makes it seem like players might not recognize why it was easy - especially less experienced players. On the other hand, something the bless spell can be easy to remember because the extra d4 can feel like you are surviving by the skin of your teeth or that it is helping you get your hits in.

[@lyracian]

The second level of cleric does give some nice options but I prefer the nineteenth level of Wizard. You could pump both Con and Wiz as they are odd numbers. That gives you +20 HP and an extra pip on both common saving throws. With +9 Con save you never fail a standard DC 10 check (unless you are in a game with fumbles). You also get an extra point of Arcane Recovery which could mean two extra Wall of Force in a day if you recover fifth level slots as opposed to recovering a fifth and forth level. You could also get a sixth and fourth for more fun with Arcane Eye. Overall thought a great video thank you for the time you put into these.

[@Fuchsling]

Great video. Had to smile in the end where you spoke about foiling the DM’s plan, watching their face fall ... which is exactly why my DM will not allow portent, the feat Lucky and similar effects 😀 Your build sounds interesting and I love the explanations on when you stop preparing a specific spell. Thank you!

[@dmel7397]

Great build! I like the fact that the Auger fulfills the God-Wizard party role, but can definitely hold his own when push comes to shove in melee range. Very versatile, great at debuffing and controlling the flow of combat. It seems like a fun way to play the diviner. Thanks for the build guide Treantmonk!

[@ajt234]

I love these builds. Interesting choices! I’ve noted you often hand-wave language selection, but I think it’s worth mentioning that if you ever plan to conjure elemental the text reads “obeys any verbal commands” and the elementals only speak versions of Primordial, which make it a pretty important selection because languages are really hard to add later. The same is true for Abyssal and Summon Demons...

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Good point. I'll remember to make it when I do my conjurer vid, thanks!

[@thewholehorse7140]

Invisibile Stalkers understand Common

[@DieinnereStimme]

Hey Chris! i don't know if this is the right spot to comment on the "Transmute Rock" spell... but as you picked it with your 11th Level spellchoice, i'd like to mention somethin about this spell: You told us, that you can either target a ceiling (for damage) or the ground (for BC) - but i don't think this is correct. The wording of the spell is: "You choose an area of stone or mud that you can see that fits within a 40-foot cube and is within range, and choose one of the following effects." the "following effects" are either - Transmute Rock to Mud. or - Transmute Mud to Rock. Leaving "Mud to Rock" out, because it is seldom very usefull (unless you need a way to save someone from drowning in quicksand), let's take a closer look at "Rock to Mud": Nonmagical rock of any sort in the area becomes an equal volume of thick, flowing mud that remains for the spell’s duration. - ok, nice. The ground in the spell’s area becomes muddy enough that creatures can sink into it. (... and so on) If you cast the spell on a ceiling, the mud falls. Any creature under the mud when it falls must make a Dexterity saving throw (...) or take damage. So there is no choice between "cast it on the ground" or "cast it on a ceiling" - the choice is: Rock to Mud or Mud to Rock. And because we're targeting "an area of stone or mud that you can see that fits within a 40-foot cube" (wich is 3-dimensional), we can have both effects of the "Rock to Mud"-Portion of the spell at the same time, as long as there is a ceiling that is not higher than 40ft above the ground. So we can create powerfull battlefied control AND do some damage with a 5th Level slot WITHOUT using our concentration. I really love this spell and probalby will take it with every caracter who has access to it - even more so with a Druid than with a Wizard, because unfortunately the "Water Walk" Ritual is not on the Wizards list of available Spells. But it combos so well with this spell: just cast it before entering a dungeon on you group as a ritual and you have one hour of free "ignore the BC-effect of Transmute Rock", wich i will probalby cast very soon. So long, keep up your amazing work!

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I hadn't even considered casting it on both...

[@neovi6424]

Just theorycrafting and kinda rambling here. I think war magic is probably the strongest wizard subclass in most situations aside from the new chronurgist subclass (which idk if it is available at most tables but seems a lot of fun and I wanna try it out). Intelligence bonus to initiative + boosting saves (up to +6) and AC (+2 when conc.) is pretty sweet. --- Enchanter seems strong w/ split enchantment but it's not as good in fight where there's only a single strong enemy and a bunch of weak minions (lack of worthwhile 2nd target for split enchantment in an important fight vs BBEG). --- Diviner seems fun but it's strongest when you have a low portent roll to throw at a strong enemy and may encourage you to prep spells that you wouldn't otherwise prep without portent + legendary resistances. Basically, can't always rely on portent. --- Feel that bladesinger would be a lot better if not restricted to elves, allowing a variant human to pick up level 1 alert feat while other subclass features provide very good defense. --- I really loved the lore wizard concept of being being able to bonus action switch a prepared spell once per short rest, or otherwise being able to cast an unprepared spell as capstone and I really hope they bring back that concept. Feel like they should have just removed the OP metamagic stuff from it instead of scraping the entire concept. --- I'm currently playing a war magic wizard with 1 level of cleric (and alert + warcaster feats), and while it feels like it's very strong w/ no obvious weakness. Man does being even one level behind in spell progression hurt xD. Still w/ the new artificer class, I'm even more tempted to do 1 level dips in the future primarily cuz of CON save prof. and not have to take the warcaster feat. In my campaign tho, the DM rarely ever comes close to knocking a PC unconcious so the defensive dip in my case hasn't been very worth it. I'm also realizing the importance of non concentration spells as time goes on lol. --- Anyways, I reference your videos frequently and love the stuff you put out. Cheers to you being able to do stuff like this full-time now :)

[@jeffreyblackwell1444]

I have been playing a god wizard for nearly 2 years. he is 16 div wizard 1 level light cleric. the extra dice manipulation from the cleric end was used from time to time but when you use blink in combat, that really really helps you just have a hard hard time even hitting him. using your luck and inspiration to keep blinked. you are really really a pain in the bum. I would have a hard time to allow this character in a game if I were to dm. It is so so hard to control. YES ...alert is a must have. it nearly eliminates sneak attack at range. because you dont allow advantage to attacks you dont see. helps you if you get blinded too. this feat is well worth the price of admission. I plan on lvl 2 light cleric the ability to eliminate all darkness.... that is "niech" but could be so worth while the investment. LUCK, yes a requirement. I took war caster and a resiliance in constitution a plus 8 or 9 to con saves with advantage to make the consentration check is lovely. but wont stop a huge hit. Hence best defense is not to be there in the first place... blink. It was actually funny that the dm has to add monsters to the ethreal plane in our fights just so he can hit me a few times. I went with a contengency of cure wounds as a lvl 5 in the event i lose down past 30 hit points. and have gained a boon too.. i truly feel godlike when i play this character. by far this character was my favorite class after playing dnd since 1982

[@thewholehorse7140]

Considering this build was made a long time ago. Harengon Twilight Cleric 2/Divination Wizard 18 is a good variant of this build now. Little less defendable due to no War Caster until Level 5, but +4 to initiative with advantage on top means you'll almost always be first in combat.

[@TheObsidianWarlock]

The biggest question for my DM with this build is how much focus on tactical combat there is. If there's a good amount of social interaction, then I'd swap Warcaster for Lucky, which along with Portent and Guidance keeps your God Wizard doing their thing in town as well.

[@DavlinViari]

Your builds are great and very inspiring. I really appreciate your work! And i can’t wait to see the other wizard builds.

[@sesimie]

If i ever reach these levels i'd play this Build. I get all the nuance from these vids. Ty.

[@acm4bass]

You have on a few occasions mentioned how you would decrease the use of cantrips as levels increase , which at its surface makes sense. However, with forethought you can find uses. So if you had picked chill touch as a damage cantrip, you might find that stopping magical healing beneficial. Also mage hand can always be used to open doors to avoid traps. Message is a great cantrip in more nefarious campaigns, where your wizard is in disguise and doesn't want to reveal him/herself. You might be using Rary's telepathic bond as well, but if you hadn't picked or found it....and certainly at lower level a great choice. Does Minor illusion ever suck?

[@corylohanlon]

@20:10 you state that Spell Mastery automatically prepares your lower level spells. That's Signature Spells. You still need to prepare your spells that you select with Spell Mastery in order to use them.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Good catch. Thanks

[@sphinx19l]

@Treantmonk's Temple Is there a variant of this build you could recommend going straight wizard without multiclassing? For example, would it be equally effective not taking cleric1 for the AC and warcaster to cast with a shield+spellfocus and instead take Lucky and go pure wizard? Doing so makes a more standard array friendly approach and allows more focus into Dex for better initiative (if getting wis to 13 early on isn't possible?) while Lucky and positioning could help with early game self defense given the low AC? Would that also work thematically and progressively when getting portent at level 2 for a much faster use of tasha's+Portent, leaving less likelyhood of needing to rely on the cleric spells? It also seems (correct me if I'm wrong) more cost effective early game instead of hoping you can earn enough gold for a spell book/spellfocus etc... Would this also change your spell selection?

[@roberttschaefer]

One of the problems with Transmute Rock, is that the severity of the effect is highly descriptive and thus completely managed by the DM.

[@Sean-fo8kg]

No fireball?? 🔥 What better crowd control than nuking a mob of minions? And it scales.

[@derekishmael4034]

Great video, I wonder, in the long run how much you're really getting from cleric here. I'm experiencing the difficulty of MC when you have the spell slots but no spells.

[@yosharian]

Detect Thots (2nd level divination): for the duration, you can detect any thots within 50 feet of you.

[@siddharthbianchi9322]

I find many of your build have low constitution I Always try to have 16 on most classes or a 18 if it has some extra asi

[@markeyestone9980]

I wonder how fun it would be to combine the diviner with 6 levels of grave cleric so you could also negate the DM's criticals. You wouldn't get the fun high level spells, but it would be a neat "Bully the DM" build

[@davidpowell9376]

No Animate Objects at level 10? (I get that there are a ton of really good Level 5 spells, but I'm incredibly biased in favour of it both for combat and for shenanigans)

[@Ciberbuster]

No taking Foresight was an oversight? It's absolutely thematic and benefits from expert divination.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I wouldn't call it an oversight. I did consider it. It would be just fine with the build

[@curthill5185]

Can we get an updated build?

[@MateusNBueno]

Great work with the videos! In other builds, and also in your Wizard Spells videos, you mentioned Slow as a good option for a chaotic battle situation. In this Auger build, you didnt get Slow. Was it because of the spell selection limitation, to diversify the builds a little bit, or you had another reason for not picking Slow? Im building a lvl9 divination Wizard, in this God Style, and I was having some trouble picking spells that would fit this chaotic situations, and also a single difficult enemie. So I got Slow and Animated Object for that purpose.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

It was absolutely due to the spell selection limits

[@beverlylogan801]

question you mentioned mass suggestion being better because of contingency but mass suggestion is a 6th level spell and contingency is restricted to 5th level spells

[@Lastofthesigilites]

The diviner AKA Magic Jars powerbuild. Once you get magic jar you need to buy a True Polymorph Scroll and hand it to an ally. When you manage a Nat 1 and Nat 19-20 you need to find a dragon.

[@hintofinsanity]

Since Transmute Rock is only in Elemental Evil and not Xanathar's I don't think you can take the spell at lvl up and be AL legal

[@TreantmonksTemple]

You had me questioning for a bit. It's there, Xanathar's pg 169.

[@hintofinsanity]

Great build, look like fun. One question, I was considering making a Vhuman School of Warmagic god wizard using warcaster, Resilient Con @ lvl 4/8 over Alert due to Tactical Wit, and arcane deflection to maximize my concentration saves early Do you feel the arcane deflection would be overkill compared to having access to portent dice? I know you are going to be making a school of warmagic build in a few weeks, but since it sounds like it will be more melee-focused I wanted to get your thoughts on it as a god wizard comparted to divination.

[@Noxious47]

How do I conjure the invisible stalker if it’s neutral. Conjure Elementals requires you to cast it on an element

[@Noxious47]

It’s made of wind incase anyone else doesn’t know

[@christophersauer9919]

Thank you.

[@thertsman8233]

magic jar is really really good for a diviner.

[@minibuscus2]

why take detect magic when the cleric can prep it?

[@BreakingStarGames]

Detect Magic can be used as a ritual without needing to prepare it. Plus you get too many 1st level spells anyways as a Wizard so might as well take rituals.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Because as a wizard you don't need to prepare it

[@djbreaktime5272]

Your beyond link isn't working.

[@Maximum7077]

Why thunderstep ? Its so hard situational no ?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Teleports are pretty useful a lot of the time, teleports where you can bring a passenger more so.

[@Maximum7077]

@@TreantmonksTemple I dont think you can bring a passenger with you with thunderstep

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@Maximum7077 You can also teleport one willing creature of your size or smaller who is carrying gear up to its carrying capacity.

[@Maximum7077]

@@TreantmonksTemple oh yes. but only people in 10 feet gets dmg. Doesnt seem worth for me for a 3rd level spell slot with spells like fireball, counterspell, tiny hut ,fly , disple magic. there are enough other abilities like invisibility or misty step to escape situations where you are surounded no ? One person more to escape with is not that big of a difference i think. I am pretty new to the game so i would appreciate every good answer .

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@Maximum7077 OK, imagine the party Barbarian gets surrounded, and that HP pool is draining fast. The wizard steps in and POOF - Barbarian and Wizard are in safety and the wizard has done their job. The enemies taking damage is just a side-benefit. Thunderwave is basically a poor-man's dimension door (another great spell). Being an effective wizard isn't really about doing damage - it's about controlling the battlefield. That is largely based on positioning that is tactically advantageous (or removing bad positioning).

[@Banejbt]

You should set up a discord server, IMO.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Good timing! I have, I'll post a video with a link this week.