The Division 2: Attacks on Fog Of War, and Creator Issues

[@Offc0nstantly]

Great video to wake up to. While i know my videos can look as such as well at time im trying to bridge the gap of pve to pvp. As we all knkw there is a damage difference in the two and play style. Thats why i try not to name those people upon thier builds that they suggested to not intentionally shun them in a way. For example FOW if i saw his video and disagreed, I'd just talk about the build but not him or his channel. Ive made this mistake in the past and learned my leason. So now i try to give the yes you can still run it that way if you prefer but if you try it this way you can see a bit more by doing this. This is also one reason why i dont try to do the spreadsheet thing. While i personally do it for myself players actually don't like that, one some dont want that much detail, and second some don't understand the math all the times. So keeping things simple and looking like an avg joe is more pleasant to those watching. But gehind the scenes im crunching numbers. In the end this video is very good.

[@OpenWrldHeadHunter]

Honestly, I just enjoy listening to more analytical style content. I tend to never pick sides, I just take the info and think about it myself and apply it to my knowledge bank of the game or if my time in game doesn’t reflect what’s being said, I just appreciate the take and let it be (unless it’s just literally wrong, which unfortunately happens a lot). I’m a fan of all the creators with a more detailed analytical style of creation, and it always kind of leaves a bad taste for me personally when the personal insults start to fly around. But eh... it is what it is and I’ll continue to enjoy the content from all sides of the community that have interesting content.

[@d15p4tch6]

I'm the same way - I don't like picking sides either. I've tried to stay as factual as possible. My next videos should be back "on brand" with more analytical content, thanks for hanging in there.

[@davidhache1267]

The division 2 has a lot of great people but it’s also so toxic. It’s a shame and gets old real fast. Thanks for the balanced take

[@d15p4tch6]

It's really kinda strange - Div 2 players skew much older and more male than other games, and yet it's one of the most toxic that I've ever experienced lol

[@fogowar2022]

We don't always agree but I appreciate our discussions immensely. You challenge me and it deepens my understanding because of it. I have had a steep uphill battle since coming on to the creator scene and I've nearly given up a couple of times, mostly because I've been repulsed by some in the Community. It is only through the support of friends and subscribers that I have stuck around. It's a true shame that a video like this needed to be made. Thank you for the support.

[@garyschei]

Please don't give up on the awesome work you put out there, it will be appreciated even more once more people find your channel. I used to watch the Dodo's channel quite a while back but the toxicity and general unpleasantness really starts to shine through after a while. This is a game and should be enjoyed, he thinks he is some kind of God and all should bow before him and never question his thoughts... What a plonker!

[@d15p4tch6]

I feel the same way - the dedication that you've had and the assumptions you dug up have kept me making content and looking at the game in a new light. Bravo Sir. Always appreciate your candor and respect even when we disagree.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

please don't stop Fog, I know I won't record my gameplay to go back and add up the # of and composition of targets, let alone do it multiple times for all content. short of the devs just publishing a compendium of this information, it's a gold-mine of info right there we only intuit as the end-users vs actually tabulate. hell, just the health of the mini tanks and dogs in your last video is information I've never seen published before after spending years in the div2 subreddits and watching I don't know how many hours of YT content on the subject.

[@wik_the_swede704]

Don’t understand why Dod takes the time to create and post these videos… this is a great game on many levels. The analytical nature of it is something I think we all enjoy (build making, min/maxing, best strategies, etc). Fog makes the game better. Dod attacks that and I don’t need or want that kind of negativity in content that I watch to enhance my experience of the game. He lost a sub after his first attack video. He’s not helping the community, but of course he’s free to spend his time the way he likes… #teamFog PS. Dod is not wrong for having an opinion on Fogs work, Dod is wrong for making a video attacking Fogs work without the same level of analysis to back up his opinion.

[@d15p4tch6]

110% lol I think you hit the crux of it: Dod dismisses Fogs work without giving the same level of effort Fog did.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

the irony is Dod was originally the 'anti-clickbaiter', no bull-shit guy and now he is making reacteria and YT drama vids? I mean, a guy has to eat, and I really give no shits either way (don't hate the player, hate the game WRT to YT clickbait), but I still think it's ironic.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

I just don't pay attention the drama honestly. I know enough to think for myself and move on. I don't always agree with everyone, but I can appreciate when people go out of the their way to define their method and point of view. Sometimes there really isn't a 'right' answer (like what is the 'best' build, for a given situation; spoilers- it isn't always a full red DPS build). all models are wrong, some of them are just more useful than others.

[@DustDemonTwilight]

DoD did end up apologising for it at the beggining of one of his newer video.

[@ManiacalThumbz]

Cant deny dods facts, but fogs information is just as important. Dod seems to be on this high horse kick for some reason and it shows with that last rant. at the end of the day ... just enjoy the game, enjoy the content they bring and stop the hate.

[@bryangolf6084]

I’m no content creator and have no desire to be. Seems like in some cases if your sub #’s aren’t “high” enough some other creators jump on you instead of saying hey I was new at one point and I should help this person or at least give them a minute. It’s a game we have fun with and I always look for something I don’t or didn’t know.

[@novaDF6871]

Drama=Content. Content=views. view=duckets! the game is too easy to be using so much energy on this game lol.. also thatnks for the relativity class during the video lmao.

[@darwinia8]

Fog does his best (and his best is indeed admirable) to build our knowledge base and thus, our understanding of the underlying numbers that make this game run. The time he must spend garnering and analyzing D2 data boggles my mind. Conversely, I've watched Dod 's work often in the past, hoping that amidst his ire, sarcasm, and general unpleasantness, there would be something of value. I haven't found much. BTW, I told him this directly in a long post to him. I wasn't surprised I didn't receive any kind of response. By his own admission, Dod is misanthropic and downright rude. He seems hell-bent on attacking click--baiters (which,to some degree, I can support), but why attack- erroneously I suspect, and you here seem to suggest-- someone like Fog, who clearly isn't in this for the KZbin money, and who is certainly working diligently and fastidiously to produce quality D2 content for which Dod claims to pine? Leaving that aside, what I say to you, Dispatch, is, does Dod's math hold up? I'm an historian, not a math guy. I'd like to see you dive into this issue with more verve, honestly, and, if one of these people are substantively wrong, consider firing away. We don't need any fence-riding here. Thanks for your work. I always look forward to hearing your cogent, reasoned thoughts.

[@d15p4tch6]

I agree with a lot of your points, and you some really good questions here. I might take a look at the methodologies or math or conclusions of some other content creators - it'd have to be careful of the scope, however. We've got a situation where there are lots of different areas where things can go wrong. The math, for example, isn't particularly hard, but it does require a lot of inputs that would need to be untangled. I'll give your suggestions some thought!

[@blakemorris2753]

Tbh, I wouldn't trust Dispatch for any mathematical analysis; this guy can't even take simple... Measuredments... correctly XD. I kid, of course, and dispatch's response to your query is perfect and highlights his supple deftness with analytical thought. It really is an excellent question and one with several layers of what may seem to be contradictory answers. To state it in short hand, yes and no; dod's math, without me having *really* crunched the numbers, seems to generally be correct... Within the framework by which he considers the game and mechanics. The math is simple, but even the simplest math is made convoluted via application to non abstract systems, especially those in which subjective assumptions as to optimization come into play. For the love of God, please turn this subject into an entire series on your channel, Dispatch. There's so much good stuff to unpack here! Y'all's truly, Blake "Algebra" Morris

[@d15p4tch6]

@@blakemorris2753 Blake Algebra Morris (BAM) renown rogue agent and known contact of rogue agent "Trig" lolol

[@blakemorris2753]

@@d15p4tch6 ROFL

[@vondiegelgaming]

Well Said! This is why I started making content for The Division games. I started my content with Div 1 because I found information given by some content creators to be skewed to only represent their view and platform they gamed on. I have watched Fog's content and appreciate the effort he goes through to break down and explain how the game's math mechanics work. I watch what he is doing in the firing range and can relate as I have spent most of my 10,000+ hours of game time down there testing and retesting guns, talents, and gear combinations. There are too many gaming content creators who don't put in the work and find it easier to cause controversy to get their views. Thanks for speaking up and making this video. This needs to be heard. Good Luck Man! If you ever need an outside view on some of these topics, hit me up.

[@d15p4tch6]

Thanks, I appreciate the offer!

[@RonaldJapenga]

I'm glad you brought it up. I watched Dod's video and then FOW. I was genuinely confused what the reaction was for and commented as such in the reaction video.

[@drewdimusmaximus9436]

Yeah, Dod's video was a non- reaction of a reaction video. I used to really seriously respect Dod, but while he spoke true facts yesterday in terms of his own metrics, he posed them as an answer to FoW's video while they had nothing to do with FoW's video. Whether because he didn't watch the video or not, this is blatant intellectual dishonesty.

[@d15p4tch6]

@@drewdimusmaximus9436 I agree with both of you. I couldn't believe he stopped watching the video, then proceeded to waste an extra ~7 minutes to test, when he could've just... watched the rest of the video

[@amonus-air2160]

@@d15p4tch6 I watched both, and don't know why Dod got so toxic. Changed my viewing preference for sure. Thanks for taking the time and sharing. 😎👍

[@grumpyoldman6503]

@@amonus-air2160 its just kind of his brand at this point. That said, it's like the concept of a derivative vs an integral out to infinity is lost on him or something. idk.

[@EDN-ii1yk]

This is crazy how people get so angry.......its a game. there's pleny of content creators who discuss this game, you just have research, and see whom you like. what I see if someone gives info that another party doesn,t like........then starts the hate party. your video made alot of sense

[@andygreener3130]

And you DID get through that before I finished MY morning coffee!! Personally, I’ll watch anybody from whom I can glean info that may help ME decide the best route for me. Everybody has a valid point somewhere.

[@d15p4tch6]

Even if Fog was completely wrong on every point he made, I'd still respect his dedication and the way he thinks about and tries to analyze the data.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

@@d15p4tch6 hell, just his tabulation of the HPs of tanks and robots etc. is a contribution I haven't seen rolled up anywhere else. not even by the spreadsheet commando crew.

[@patrickgeagan9509]

I’m just playing the game for fun. I know nothing of dps or anything else. One thing I’ve learned from this game and many content creators is take it all with a grain of salt. Play the game how you like to play it and how you feel comfortable with your build.

[@d15p4tch6]

You hit the nail on the head right there

[@rh6053]

Thank you for the video. I watch both fog and dod. I like dod for his spreadsheet and how he breaks down the “DPS” of weapons. But I disagree with the all reds all the time mentality. Also like that he try’s not to mislead in his videos and if he gives out bad info he will apologize and correct it. Now I like fog for again spreadsheets and his out side the “DPS” thinking and that it’s not all red all the time. My thinking leans towards fog more than dod. For me dod is the quick numbers guy that’s easy to understand and fog is the more complex thinking that you need the whole picture to get not just bits and pieces. One last thing I found your channel from dod recommending your build efficiencies video thank you for your work in the community

[@d15p4tch6]

It is true that Dod basically gave my channel a leg up and was a big supporter of mine - he really helped me get into the space. It's a really uncomfortable feeling being in the middle of two people that I enjoy and respect.

[@scooternut7198]

i would show caution with this type of content you my get caught in the cross fire ! ill post a theory based on my experiences of running the incursion virtually all with randoms , over a hundred leaderboard completions plus many more partial, where joined in half way and many fails at various stages to boot . whats clear to me is the vast majority of these players (on xbox)either do not watch , dont care ,or cant be bothered to get the gear needed despite a large volume of guidework on this platform so maybe your collective channels are just an echo chamber for the hardcore geeks and nerds amongst us i actually blame the devs for allowing these situations to occur , because of a lack of accurate Game info on their part they are happy to sit back while these slanging matches take place across multiple platforms then do nothing to correct things and take it as all good publicity. instead of arguing petty points , petition the devs for real game info or encourage some action against their current trend of cosmetics instead of content you would do the community a greater service.

[@d15p4tch6]

You've got some good points there - most players of any game are pretty casual and don't really use our advice, no matter how informed. And it would be MUCH MUCH easier if the devs just told us how much EHP each enemy has, actual recoil and spread angles, etc. hell, even just making the rangefinder from the Ranger weapon talent just a standard part of the UI would be awesome to make sure we're in the optimal range of our weapons

[@scooternut7198]

@@d15p4tch6 Hi i should say i count myself as one of the div2 knowledge geeks too ! . Dod has said he has Aspergers so although not an excuse for seriously poor behaviour i'd cut him some slack , i do wonder how much people "pulling the pin " on social media for Dod to lob some hand grenade while they sit around and watch the ensuing arguments are at play here , taking advantage of his situation. i think he has taken the video down and issued an apology too , unlike the many populist creators who release utter garbage and when called out dig themselves into a deeper hole rather than just say "hey guys i got it wrong ,ill do better research in the next one" i agree re range finder and hits points being known. remember when you could get official game guide books , just dug out my old fallout 3 one ,official division info is like some secret society in comparison

[@davidhache1267]

Is there a reason that they needed to make damage so complicated? Thats were 99% of the issues are. I wish that I could make a build and the damage of my weapons adjusted accordingly. Destiny 2 has other issues, but you also don’t need a phd in statistics to figure things out.

[@d15p4tch6]

I think on one hand, the level of complexity can be daunting, or even frustrating, but it absolutely adds depth as well. The reason that there are so many builds and content creators that have differing opinions is because of this fact.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

The math involved isn't actually that hard. The models are really easy, even if is sometimes the in-game presentation of information is frequently not consistent (dev-team problem)- eg what things are actually independent multipliers. The issue is the application of the models and the implications on gameplay- which is hard, multi-variable, and to some extent subjective if it 'works' for your playstyle or not. To someone like DoD, he gets hung up on the idea of diminished marginal returns because I guess it is counter-narrative to the way to maximize the DPS function (which is to build all red with maximal chest and bag talents). This is 'true' in the strictest sense of 'technically correct is the best kind of correct', but in practice, isn't always useful to people seeking advice on how to build, and even counter-productive if it leads to you dying repeatedly vs clearing content quickly (which he will be quick to cover with a 'git gud' quip). I mean, that's the whole memento vs striker bag argument at essence.

[@TheJudge1985]

Very interesting info. I'll be looking into this.

[@framed_mcrib3412]

issue at hand they have issue with each other not first time they went back and forth like kids

[@Offc0nstantly]

👀

[@foxxllee]

All content creators must develop skills and turn into context creators for sake of clarity😆

[@brassbat]

Fog ftw

[@tareqalfarah1109]

Stopped watching Dod videos when he had the issues with identity not saying identity not in the wrong too in some points on his videos & way of putting it out but you expect people to be mature.

[@elfmz]

Great video, unfortunately there are a bunch of D2 accountants that love to hate Fog’s ability to analyze numbers differently

[@scooternut7198]

why are you so convinced hes correct any more than any other youtuber most are wrong at some point !

[@elfmz]

@@scooternut7198 on this matter I have extensively discussed it with Dod (talking pages) and I have tested it my self. Dod just made up a methodology to confirm his hasty opinions as usual 😂

[@d15p4tch6]

Every creator deserves the benefit of the doubt while also some healthy skepticism. There have been plenty of times I assumed the way things were in this game only to have new information blow those assumptions up!

[@scooternut7198]

@@elfmz i wouldnt say he "made up a methodology" he was guilty of not giving the content in question enough time and misinterpreted what was being claimed within it . nothing wrong with challenging the validity of content as long as done to broaden the knowledge within the game . if garbage info goes unchallenged the danger is the devs might use the info or be influenced by it look at the mess they could be creating following PTS revisions , when was the last time you were killed in the DZ with Scorpio or Regulus !!

[@elfmz]

@@scooternut7198 you’re unaware of what this is, let me explain: 1-Dod made a video comparing Ourobouros and St Elmo’s where I had a discussion with him stating the 21%DTH could not be ignored as there was at least 50% on average health damage on missions and open world 2-Dod made a hasty video to come up with a different (lower) percentage. This is where he use a method that would benefit his opinion but not the real numbers imo 3-Fog makes a video with a tremendous amount of work to prove him wrong 4-Dod watches only one and half minutes and decides to make a video. After everyone tells him to watch the full video, he does and realizes he misinterpreted 5- Dod deleted the video and apologizes to Fog Dod is a nice guy with a short fuse and a bit impetuous, he is actually now wanting to collaborate with Fog, hope it happens cause we don’t need 2 good content providers make videos against each other

[@Calaxanasgaming]

That dude DOD is a troll he dies this in conjunction with off constantly they have built there subs dissing Kamikazevondoom, Identity and Nothingbutskillz. I wouldn’t even par mind to them if I was fog of war

[@d15p4tch6]

Thanks for the share man. I wish it was on a happier subject!

[@ghostisthegoat]

Dude, you are a known clout chaser. that's all you do. If there's a chance to clout chase calaxanas, you'll be there. You back nothing up with facts you just go off the rails and anyone who promotes you like Soak, another clout chaser does, or like Off used to. They end up falling down for a bit. So stop your lying. It's your boy ghost.

[@iU9LY]

i thought cal was the exploits guy

[@grimreaper6112]

Who cares.