The Downfall of "Anti-hygiene" Influencers

[@Shanspeare]

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[@bumblehoney7206]

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[@endermanowa]

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[@teapotsoup2851]

Sounds like a great tool, I've seen similar things for world building for dnd and story projects. My first thought when you started the sponsorship section though was "dude you just need a whiteboard" but in fairness yea it has a lot more features than a whiteboard lmao

[@SewardWriter]

DUDE, that outfit and hair at 17:30 are DYNAMITE. 💖💖💖

[@jadziajan]

That's funny - I literally just started reading American Psycho... In the second chapter, Bateman describes his ridiculously long, detailed morning routine. Every product is of a specific, high end brand and he knows the specifics of what each one is for. It took more time to read this chapter than it would have taken me to wash my face and moisturise in the morning. Bateman would have done numbers on Tik Tok.

[@lawliet6910]

Hahaha FACTS

[@beckyginger3432]

The orginal girlboss

[@hericiumcoralloides5025]

The product focused chapters were just as alienating and neauseating as the extreme gore parts for me.

[@missdenisebee]

Patrick Bateman was a skinfluencer decades before skinfluencers😂

[@jacquesdaniels8314]

i always thought this! like the modern patrick bateman is your average influencer. RIP patrick bateman you would have loved tiktok 💜💜

[@juliasanders9155]

Hearing that people referred to you as Shane Dawson's racist caricature made my blood boil. That's disgusting

[@BreeonaNechole]

The way I was ready to FIGHT!!!!!! wtf type of mess is that?!?! And ppl have the audacity to be upset with Jackie for these nicknames

[@twiggledowntown3564]

Wait what?

[@inkwelldried]

shanaynay wasn't even his original creation. it was also a character martin lawrence did in his tv show in the 90s. shane just made it worse (which is saying something bc it was trash to begin with)

[@raisinbran531]

@ville__pedos seem to flock together, don’t they? 💀

[@triane2136]

My jaw literally dropped, that's awful

[@riversnow5771]

I always HATED when Shane would talk about how "poor" he is while wearing a ripped t-shirt, meanwhile he's standing in a million dollar mansion making god knows how much. I also almost puked when you mentioned the ass picking thing. Holy shit, not even the grossest people I've met would do that.

[@marcelskyy6631]

@ville__ you are replying to damn near every comment with this, get a hobby

[@riversnow5771]

@ville__ Oh, I know. They're both terrible.

[@Vash-Venture]

@@riversnow5771 Genuine question here... I had this video in my rec feed and haven't ever heard of Shan. Can I ask what you mean by this?

[@thesyrupdude]

@@Vash-Venture shane dawson. he was known for pioneering a lot of body humor content as well as he was racist in his content. a lot of very edgy/gross = funny content that you would look back on now and say "why did i watch this?". he is also the guy who was alleged to have sexual contact w his cat and is just a genuinely terrible human being

[@riversnow5771]

@@thesyrupdude I couldn't have said it better myself!

[@julietofthebriar]

I have oily, acne prone skin. The idea that my skin is “cleaner” with layers of foundation and color correctors is diabolical.

[@ToscaTee]

And those same makeup in turn make the acne worse 😭

[@Missalot108]

THANK YOU. When I was in high school, I was so confused and frustrated by everyone saying that I needed to wear makeup because my acne would look cleaner. Look cleaner? Boss, add any more oils or product onto there and I'll be one giant pimple. I can hardly put lotion on my face because I'll have a breakout. It's gotten a bit better with time, but even almost a decade later and I've still got the kind of skin that just refuses makeup and I suspect I'll have that for the rest of my life. It's horrid how 'cleanliness' is equated with makeup. Absolutely frustrating to no end.

[@omaimaf9963]

I had a friend in college who had very bad cystic acne, people would act like telling her to “wash her face” would be ground breaking information, when she had the best skincare routine I’ve ever seen. Same people would recommend product she could hide her acne with. She had the patience of a saint since she didn’t go around stab*ing them.

[@percedurza]

HONESTLY. if i wanted to be clean id put LESS makeup on, because that would just make the acne and icky pores worse, wouldn't it???

[@ukrivu]

​@@omaimaf9963 omg that really reminds me of something, i had really bad skin in middle school and people always told me to just wash my face (it was hormonal but okay!) and in highschool it really cleared out, leaving behind barely any acne scars. so then people started asking for my skincare, insisting i must be using tons of products to have gotten it so perfect so quickly. brotha it's literally just genes. just like it was when my skin was problematic! idk why that's such a hard concept for people to grasp

[@blancaluna572]

I always found it crazy how, if you're a woman, body hair is "dirty". Like, when i shower, i don't somehow manage to avoid the hair, it all gets cleaned too, how is it dirty??

[@PutkisenSetä]

Dirt isn't dirty when it's outside. "Dirty" means out of place in contrast to one's personal expectations.

[@blancaluna572]

@@PutkisenSetä but why are we expected to be hairless then?

[@PutkisenSetä]

@@blancaluna572 Because this person wishes to enforce their personal standards on you. Pretty basic human interaction. Low intensity bullying.

[@sunnyBunny-oq5ru]

Ive been called unhygenic for not wearing a bra, people are genuinely insane

[@thebookwormhotel5336]

women typically shave in the shower every time they shower so I think it's just the idea that if a woman doesn't shave at all they must not shower at all

[@andreahillman7808]

I've always thought about the fact that "clean girl" is always associated with white blonde women even though there is a lot of black content creators who have always focused on body care and fitness who are all dressed up in pink and do their skin care on camera everyday but they are never included with THE clean girls. apparently their "vibes" arent the same..........

[@uniquenewyork3325]

​@@jaz121 implicit bias go brr 😧

[@toyaJM]

I also think in our community being clean is very important and so I’ve never seen a video of a black person talking about how dirty they are or skipping bathing. It’s not like I don’t know people who do (I have teens lol) but it’s not acceptable in our community.

[@annabeinglazy5580]

​@@toyaJMtbf cleanliness and "uncleanliness" is a Class issue as Well. Im White (european) and from a working Class Background, and i can Tell you, if you are working Class and "unclean" you are Not ending Up on tiktok. You need to acquire a certain amount of wealth to be permitted to be Seen as unclean. Kind of Like how hobo chique only works for you If you live in a mansion, otherwise you will get labelled as unkempt real quick.

[@cottonclouds]

i've thought this about south asian girls as well

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

I think you have to label yourself the aesthetic name. A lot of aesthetics can be similar and it can be confusing.

[@ratpatterson8953]

i lived in a neglectful hoarder house as a kid and had multiple cats that would pee everywhere. i was unable be seen as clean by my peers because of my living situation, because i didnt own a thing that didnt have the scent of cat piss. today i am so scared of being dirty, i feel like i will never be clean enough, i dont want anyone to smell me i dont want to be seen as dirty again.

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

Same, hoarder house plus smoking. I'm always scared I secretly smell.

[@ratpatterson8953]

@@picahudsoniaunflocked5426 YEAH THE SMOKING TOO i was so scared my school would think i have cigs on me or something

[@fishy000]

@@picahudsoniaunflocked5426 Same for me except + dogs that were never properly trained to go outside. The cigarette smell was the worst for me. It was on my clothes and hair and backpack when I went to school, and I always felt like my teachers thought I was the one smoking and treated me poorly on occasion because of it. No one ever asked if anything was going on at home. 🤡

[@SpecialBlanket]

hoarder here (not child of hoarders)-- no excuse for subjecting someone else to those living conditions. when i had a pet i housed my pet elsewhere when my house got mildewy.

[@lisanneschop7317]

This sounds like you've had a pretty shitty childhood. I hope that you will be able to find healing with your friends and romantic partner

[@arielhawkins839]

Heyyy fellow black girl here. That was very brave of you to admit that others called you Shanaynay. Memories like those shame me for some reason I cannot explain. So, I choose to lock it in my mind forever.

[@rocyrino]

I’m sorry you are feeling shame. Shane Dawson is a nuisance. He was told repeatedly to stop. He never listened. Still had Shananay merch last time I checked. That’s the harm HE caused. The people who called you this should be ashamed. Not you ❤️

[@keelyemerine-mix1051]

60 something white woman here, and I happen to have a very unusual name that is mispronounced at first buy virtually everybody I ever meet, including the new couple I met at church this morning. I grew up in a really racially diverse neighborhood and a lot of my Black friends had names that were far more common than mine, or, if uncommon, were really pretty obvious to pronounce. And yet even in early Elementary I noticed how many times people would first apologize for getting my name wrong, even when I was six, and then managed to remember how to pronounce it correctly but continue to mingle my friends' names through High School. It was one of many Oddities that I later came to see as systemic racism racism, and while I'm really blessed to still be in contact with a few of my old friends, some of whom are now like family to me, I just don't understand why adults wouldn't have noticed the disparity in effort to get the most basic thing about somebody, their name, correct. As much as a white woman can, actually, I do understand, and I'm sorry to you that you've had your name used so disrespectfully. This is my first time seeing your channel and I've already subscribed. Good stuff!

[@justkiddin84]

@@keelyemerine-mix1051 the character was also a racist caricature, adding insult to injury.

[@VyctoriaBrooks]

@ville__ really?

[@naj2276]

@@VyctoriaBrooksdon’t interact it’s a bot

[@japansace]

I took a class in college taught by a Native American woman, and she had some incredible insight on what it means to be “dirty.” Dirt-soil, the earth itself-isn’t dirty when it’s outside. It’s only dirty when it’s brought inside. Therefore, the true definition of “dirty” is things/people where they don’t belong. That blew my third eye WIDE OPEN.

[@Saturnsspider]

so its really "dirty" colonisers!!! no that's such a good perspective! im taking that!!!

[@moatrboat]

ohh that's really interesting!

[@echoboriealis7542]

my ocd has always been much less intense on camping trips, like if i get dirty i dirt idk

[@maxismills]

What about doodoo? Caca? Poo? This is just baby brain philosophy. What’s the point in “pondering” this? It’s crazy how some people in this country can say the same thing as someone who is anti-immigration and get away with it. Is the problem with colonization the violence or the fact that people moved here? The problem is the violence. Not that people are here when they “don’t belong.” When this is pointed out, it’s no wonder some of the most anti-immigration people polled aren’t white people. White people are held to a higher standard (understandably so) but other people in this country aren’t encouraged to be self aware on how their own beliefs may contribute to further bigotry. This is “I’m 14 and this is deep” levels of idiocy.

[@maxismills]

The problem with colonization was the violence. Not that people are here when they “don’t belong.” Your professor sounds racist.

[@lesbemo]

its crazy how ive seen people argue up and down that brazilian waxes are for hygiene. i wish more people realized that having body hair is not an unhygienic thing. it also shows unfair standards put on women and femme-presenting people because i've been told that having leg or armpit hair is unhygienic but the same people wouldn't bat an eye if a man is covered in hair.

[@glass.hammer]

and men who do shave and wax religiously are perceived as feminine and therefore lesser. make it make sense.

[@Matty002]

good old double standards 🙃

[@Emily-kd2zv]

i definitely think it's unhygienic for men to have that kind of body hair bc they don't fkin wash it

[@Laotzu.Goldbug]

It's not so black and white. Extra body hair always has the potential to be more unhygienic because it has the potential to trap more debris, oils, chemicals and so on obviously if one lives in a modern industrialized Society where they can wash their whole body with regularity then the relative difference in cleanliness is fairly irrelevant. but for most of human history where people did not have the capability to wash as thoroughly and as regularly then trimming or removing hair that you couldn't wash absolutely would be a hygienic practice. Obviously impractical terms 99% of people that are getting bikini waxes are doing it for sex appeal, since it's pretty implicit that if you can go and get a professional waxing you also have access to a shower.

[@SeleenShadowpaw]

​@@Laotzu.Goldbug weird how shaving body hair has been reserved for royalty and religious purposes for most of human history then. I also bet you would have loved to shave your ass hair blindly with a bent piece of badly forged steel and no access to antibiotics any time before good blades and mirrors would have been widely available to anyone under 'owning people'-rich. I bet the town barber won't do __that__ for you.

[@lousielouise8716]

It’s crazy how much the internet has stigmatized acne and wrinkles even more than they already were. A “pure”complexion is literally a matter of time and luck before it goes away. We all age (if we’re lucky!) and we’re all one accident away from scarring, one diagnosis away from chemo. Clean =\= health =\= goodness =\= purity.

[@fuckinghelenlikewhatthehel2629]

yeah. i always feel really self conscious seeing all these people with beautiful clear skin that have acne products that just work for them, meanwhile i’m here trying something and my skin at best doesn’t react to it and at worst acts like i was just next to a nuclear reactor meltdown. Being able to have a single or even a few products or a routine that help you is already a matter a luck, so many people can try hundreds of things and see no improvement :/

[@lousielouise8716]

⁠@quiznak1003 Hey, I appreciate what you’re going for, but this is the opposite of what I’m saying. Appearance does not dictate how interesting someone is- whether they are clear-skinned or not. Nobody is more or less human for their appearance. ❤❤❤

[@Ayem427]

Totally, I feel like it shouldn't be forced down people's throats like it is, and I say that as someone who has acne and hates it (not really because of how it looks anymore, it just hurts a lot sometimes :P)

[@teddiespicker]

“We all age (if we’re lucky!)” reminded me of something I saw on tiktok where a person said that she will forever see her wrinkles as positive. Every wrinkle is a smile experienced, a memory lives, and not every one gets to age 🤧

[@Kagomai15]

​@CheesusChrist-xv5bm good job! I'm glad your skin is less painful to live in now! My acne has always been mild with some flare-ups here and there, and the pain has always made me very sympathetic to people with worse acne than me. I have acne scars all over my back that I like to think of as white freckles. They never scarred on my face no matter how I pick at them. The worst has always been the big cystic acne that I'd get on my mons and inner thighs, absolutely painful. Thankfully those seem to have calmed down a lot since I got the Mirena IUD years ago. Just when I think I've found a skin care routine that works, I'll have a big flare up again, either from stress or my diet or I don't even know. Anyway yeah, just wanted to say congrats and that I'm a little envious lol I've kind of accepted that acne is just part of my face, honestly. Like my chin hair and my glasses xD

[@canifer5546]

Important note about the white linen shirts, they did have an actual purpose! Those clothes are closest to the skin, meaning that they were directly in contact with the sweat and oils of the skin. This protected the nicer outer layers of clothing (which, depending on the make or fabric couldn't be washed). The linen layer would be changed out and washed, sometimes serveral times a day, and was actually a very effective method of staying clean. Obviously using that to perpetuate colonial violence is bad, but it did have a use beyond that.

[@valolafson6035]

100%. That's why people advocate wearing shirts under wool sweaters.

[@networksims4357]

Yep, was about to say that. Also they were somewhat of a flex depending on how white you kept them lol (and how much you had showing beneath your outer layers). Source: I occasionally dress in early medieval clothing, though it also applies to later periods with petticoats/shifts/etc

[@BertaRS]

Exactly. Those linen shirts were there to protect the clothes.

[@sandraisyearning]

+

[@KatheHanna]

linen doesnt stink like cotton does either

[@monikamecarova8381]

An influencer that presented herself as a “big sister” “girls girl” “do as I say and as I do” posted tiktok saying “if you don’t wash your hair everyday, you’re disgusting, dirty and other people can smell you.” I called her out on her bullshit and got blocked. Some textures of hair should not be washed often, also modern shampoos tend to dry the hair and scalp out. It’s weird how some people that present themselves as “relatable” or “for the people” are often the ones that shame others for their choices.

[@thepovdweller]

My 4c hair would be dry as hell if I washed it everyday😂

[@FeyPax]

I’d argue MOST hair shouldn’t be washed daily. Your body is great at protecting itself and oils in the hair are extremely important. When you wash too much you are continuously stripping your hair of natural oil and actually making it dirtier quicker.

[@GS-ww1ju]

I have straight texture hair that’s quite thin and I only wash my hair twice a week. When I wash it daily, it gets like straw. I don’t care if it’s considered gross to only wash twice a week, that’s what I do.

[@psychedelicpegasus7587]

That kind of "advice" is usually followed by a paid promotion message for shampoo. It's a grift to get their audience to buy more of the products they're pushing.

[@lkcullen1918]

And in general, it seems 'shamers' forget you can still bathe/shower without washing your hair. It's as if it never occurred to them lol I shower every other day (since I'm not doing physical labor/getting dirty), but only wash my dry curly HAIR like twice a week. But when I tell people that, they assume I'm hardly bathing at all.

[@alyssafitzgerald83]

I feel like Bernadette Banner’s mythbusting video about dark ages cleanliness might have been a good resource to have around the 26/27 minute mark. It may not have been available when the script was being written, but since Bernadette focuses on clothes there’s a lot of information on why linen was worn as a skin layer and how that affects cleanliness and bathing. Everything about the colonizers being bastards is spot on, it’s just that section that strikes me as perhaps not as well researched as others.

[@rjturnipsauce]

Yes! I was thinking this as well!!

[@jbslimshaddy]

This!!!

[@idrisa7909]

I think it just needs nuance. I'm sure that while linen was practical it also gained a political dimension under colonialism

[@chloe5275]

Absolutely right. I haven't seen Bernadette's video myself, but Kaz Rowe has an excellent one on this subject as well!

[@aubreejobizzarro1208]

Colonizers are 100% gross goblins, but they also were heavily influenced (and traumatized) by the Black Plague recommendations. I think it’s also important to note that racialization and religion played an extreme hand in hygiene practices. There was the expansion of the Arab empire into lower Europe which that particular empire had well funded medical institutes and colleges at the time, making leaps and bounds in the scientific field of medicine. Of course the Christians are always weary of anything that isn’t Christian so the cross cultural exchange was very limited. IMHO colonizers really have shot themselves in the foot time and time again through their own paranoia of the other, and their undying trust in pseudoscience coming from their people. (But what else is new, look at American Christian nationalists these days oof)

[@terepipipes2675]

When i was in high school, i got bullied for "not baithing" bc i had really oily hair and we only had 1 shower for 5 people so if it was a rough morning id have to shower in the evening. Seeing the same type of girls now with their oily buns and face being beauty influincers and saying its ok to not wash your hair every daymakes me want to vomit.

[@soallender]

i would like to note that jewish communities throughout the middle ages maintained traditional hygiene practices passed down from ancient times which significantly lessened the impact of the plague on jewish communities, which unfortunately led to the belief that we were manufacturing the illness by “poisoning the wells” followed by mass pogroms

[@TyMarie92]

Omg! I knew that Jewish people have very hygienic practices but I didn't realize there was a belief that Jewish people manufactured illnesess.

[@canifer5546]

European history really is just people finding reasons to hate Jewish people, huh

[@dreadwolfrising]

Yes, this exactly. That plus our burial practices and culture around death. They were so close to "wait, leaving diseased bodies around to rot into our water supply is a bad thing?" and instead landed at "nah here's a convenient scapegoat for us to target for centuries instead while we refuse to bathe because water itself makes you sick"

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

During a pandemic there's always a need for a scapegoat. It's easier to blame a minority instead of trying to stop the disease

[@michaelk9279]

God, I can't believe we let Europeans live down the plague

[@dustind4694]

Real clean girl tiktok would be nurses, doctors and orderlies pointedly washing their hands with meticulous care as needed and warning you how there are free beds in the ICU if you don't.

[@dustind4694]

Is it a threat? Not legally.

[@piss7610]

"Free" not in the US of A babyy raaahhhh!!! 🦅🦅🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

[@dustind4694]

@@piss7610 True, I should say 'available'.

[@valeriasoto-herrera8610]

yes! also healthcare workers, particularly nurses and aides, have a good understanding of how important personal hygiene is because half of our job is washing people, and we understand that it often looks nothing like what these aesthetic videos show. I was also struck by that comment from a disabled person featured in the video, because so many people take for granted the simple ability to clean yourself on your own. I often have patients apologizing for being unable to wash or being incontinent, and I hate that there's so much stigma against being unclean, that people feel ashamed of it, when that's so counterproductive. Being clean IS a good thing, but the whole reason we need to clean in the first place is because real life is dirty. It is normal and okay to be sweaty, oily, to urinate and poop, etc, we should acknowledge that far more than we do.

[@dustind4694]

@@valeriasoto-herrera8610 Yep. When someone falls where I'm from, you pick them up, you don't demand they apologize for the inconvenience. Gravity isn't a discriminating thing that only happens to the lesser, anymore than excretion or germ theory are.

[@NyangJinArt]

My dermatillomania having self can NEVER relate to the clean girl aesthetic because of my skin picking wounds and scars on my face. The amount of people who assume I'm dirty and don't wash my face and give me unsolicited skin care advice without knowing I have an excoriation disorder is astounding.

[@sole_jewel598]

@ville__where’d you get this information from?

[@emisformaker]

@@sole_jewel598 They're making things up for a reaction and spamming the comments.

[@rachelsikorski9858]

I have trichotillomania and I very much relate. The scars, scabs, etc from ingrown hairs that then get worse and I see the way people will look that them. Much love to you.

[@justkiddin84]

@@sole_jewel598 it’s a bot

[@maddie9117]

Omg I think I have the same things as you, its a never ending cycle honestly :(. I always wear long sleeved bathing suits at the beach because my back and shoulders are just covered in scabs and scars. My face admittedly isn't as bad, but my family keeps trying to get me to buy and/or try a new face wash because its gonna work so much better than the old product, trust meeee 😅

[@gargoylegutz]

the whole moral of this video, that cleanliness in the modern era is associated more with consumerism and looks and smells versus the bacteria and actual dirt, expresses my thoughts perfectly. there was one thing i was surprised not to hear in this video, the link between female sexuality and hygiene in society. i often hear men talk about women who are open about their sexuality, especially if they have different partners frequently, do sex work, or if they use sex toys or masturbate, smelling "fishy", being "ran through", having "arby's roast beef" or just in general being unhygienic. the whole roast beef thing being linked with uncleanliness in and of itself is an issue.

[@Waywardwindfall]

The amount of time and money people spend trying to make vaginas NOT smell like vagina is wild too me.

[@zombiea1936]

“Gold hoops” , “slick back hair “ , and “dewy beautiful skin.” This all sounds soooo familiar… interesting how it’s beautiful only when they deem it to be

[@DryPaperHammerBro]

Wdym?

[@emolover]

@@DryPaperHammerBrothese are all things women of color have been doing for decades but NOW its a trend when white ppl do it

[@plumpbosom3670]

@@DryPaperHammerBrothose are things that black and brown women have adopted for years and it was called ghetto. But when white women do it, it’s called the “clean girl aesthetic”

[@mena8758]

@@DryPaperHammerBro they are usually style choices black women would wear, it was mocked until it became a trend for white women recently. correct me if i'm wrong tho

[@elianaordonez9483]

@@mena8758latinas, too

[@chantelcarter7656]

“poop shavings on the couch” really devastated me 😔

[@SK-xv1in]

I was eating dinner when I reached that part and I was like 🤢 he’s so fucking nasty

[@goldencapybara7952]

Kept watching the video and, the disgust has not left my face. Why would he even mention that? Ever???

[@Nikki_the_G]

Seriously, WTF did I just hear??

[@Niobesnuppa]

It made me gag everytime she mentioned his couch shenanigans. What an absolute cave troll he is.

[@Nightman221k]

Shane is just nasty. That's all I've got to say about that. He just exudes ick.

[@jacquesstrap5723]

An interesting thing about Roman baths is that they were heated and cleaned by slaves. There were small spaces underneath the baths where enslaved people labored to heat the water. Apparently it was also a status thing to parade your enslaved people at these sorts of places. I think this sets up an interesting idea, that horrible, exploitative things have always maintained the comfort, privilege, and aesthetics of the upper class :)

[@KingofBlades113]

The slaves that worked at these baths were not the slaves of the clients. They were slaves owned by the Thermae. If you brought a slave to a bath house they functioned like an attendant. Plus the baths were open to everyone who wasn't enslaved and were free to access.

[@KingofBlades113]

@@jacquesstrap5723 What you wrote suggested that the Roman elites brought their personal slaves to the baths to work in heating up the baths.

[@Callimo]

@@KingofBlades113 Oh wow, how nice to know that these SLAVES weren't the SLAVES of the RICH clients, but SLAVES of the bath house itself. But you could toooootally bring your OWN SLAVE if you wanted a personal attendant. :3 Bruh, what was even the need for this specification?

[@tedddybear]

⁠@@Callimoidk I thought it was interesting to learn more. Why can’t people add more info? Nothing they said takes away from what the of post said.

[@mereco]

​@@Callimo They were just adding more context. Being so condescending is not as cute as you think.

[@delflare]

I really wish people would stop conflating "hobbies" with " hygiene". If you have an extensive skin care routine, great for you! But I think it is very insidious to assume that you are more hygienic than other people because of that. It's not the same thing.

[@jvghibli]

Prime example of why you shouldn’t follow every trend. I have been saying this for years: Using more than three facial products, not out of necessity but just because you can, is wasteful and absolutely not necessary to maintain good hygiene.

[@Diamond-db3fx]

@@jvghibliit’s not unnecessary just because you don’t do it 😂. if someone washes their face everyday and has a routine, they probably are more hygienic than someone who washes their face whenever they feel like it!

[@jvghibli]

@@Diamond-db3fx most people wash their face everyday - but they don’t need 15 products to do it. 3 products at the max is enough. 15 is just a waste of money, time and effort.

[@actualgoblin]

I have a hard time not treating hygeine as a hobby. Like I spend hours every single day just taking care of my hair and skin and I'm not even supposed to mention it?? I'm physically and mentally exhausted after every shower. I spend ridiculous amounts of money on products and I don't even use the expensive stuff. Do other people not feel like this all takes up a significant portion of their life?

[@doid4354]

@@actualgoblinJesus how much time are you spending on all this?? I can say normal people only take like 15 minutes to do their routine (maybe 30 minutes if you’re showering too). Do you have really long hair? That took up allll of my time in the shower trying to wash it. Cut it short and cleaning is speedier. I only use a cleanser and moisturizer for my face. Literally I can’t imagine spending hours?! on my hygiene routine that’s too much

[@tarawatkins9095]

this is so random but my boyfriend was waiting at a bus stop and a random old white lady stopped to tell him that his chronic hormonal acne is the result of 'dirty pillowcases' and that he 'needs to just wash his pillowcases more'... unprompted...

[@glass.hammer]

your bf has better odds sleeping upside down like a bat so his skin touches nothing and can’t be occluded by the most pristine fabric. Which is insane. And I know there is some poor soul who would do it to emulate beauty gurus. also, how fucking rude. and not the first time I’ve heard someone deal with this. the olds need to chill.

[@pinkdarkman]

Bruh. I had awful hormonal acne when I was in my teens and early to mid 20s. You know what I did to get rid of it? I got old lol. Some people really think they're smart and the world cares what they have to say when the reality is the opposite. I hope he knows that his skin is just a sign that he's young and that everyone around who is smart knows that there's nothing he can really do about it besides possibly damage his liver by using Accutane or some other meds that might not even work. Acne is a sign of youth and I have no idea why society loves youth so much but treats the young people with acne like they're doing something wrong.

[@Siures]

@@pinkdarkmanWell, in some cases it causes pain. My now husband had bad acne and it hurt terribly and he had infections. So of course he tried everything to make it better. So, yes, acne is not only a problem cosmetically.

[@martjeeh]

Ugh, unsolicited advise is the most annoying and shittiest thing. They so badly want to feel more important or better then other people

[@kseni_vely]

One of my besties asked me again and again "how come my hair grows faster" and I told her point blank: firstly, it's genetic, but also - I don't wash it everyday, I wash it twice a week at most. The natural hydration of the scalp is indispensable for normal growth of the hair, so if you wash it everyday even if you moisturize - you're not replacing your natural oils.

[@alexanderreynolds6018]

damn I wash my hair every day and my hair grows way too fast. im bouta start washing twice a day to see if i don't have to cut it so often

[@confusedlizard]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for addressing the disability aspect of the concept of “cleanliness” - the dehumanization of disability and the view of disabled people as not deserving of the same standard of living as abled people is often overlooked in the social space.

[@joyflameball]

YEAH LIKE, I have ADHD, chronic depression (which causes very bad fatigue), and maybe autism. Executive dysfunction and fatigue makes it so that showering once a WEEK is like climbing a mountain, let alone once a day. And that's just with my own experience being mentally disabled, physical disabilities most definitely make it ten times worse.

[@life_enjoyer101]

real, it takes such a long time for me to get the energy to walk to the bathroom, let alone shower then lotion up afterwards

[@saltydinonuggies1841]

@@joyflameballif it helps, most people don’t actually need to be fully showering every single day. A wipe down here and there is great but for a lot of people a full on shower is terrible for their skin. You’re doing great as you are!

[@ShuhPond]

@@joyflameballI have all those things too, but I manage to shower more than once a week. Gross. The sensory sensitivity associated with autism would never allow me to go a whole week. Like, damn, get a shower chair.

[@maxwilson2785]

@@ShuhPond Did you watch the video with your ears plugged?

[@keith9379]

honey wake up new shanspeare post

[@Cshaw_13]

For 🏃🏼‍♀️

[@bobsonny]

oh my god will we ever be free of this type of comment? do we not all, collectively, recognize this as the same kind of low-effort likebait as "first!" comments?

[@joslyndove]

@@bobsonnyare you like. mad that it got liked or?

[@frog3630]

@@bobsonnyi can’t even hate if you’re mad because i honestly agree lmao

[@ashisburning7786]

I love how I can look at the comments section and the first comment is exactly what i would comment

[@ohboy-zi1yf]

thank youuuu for talking abt how all this "clean" aesthetic stuff isnt clean at all and is actually incredibly unhygenic. a 30 step skincare and makeup routine every single day to look like a porcelain statue will destroy your skin. a lot of cosmetic surgeries can straight up kill you. shaving/waxing your entire body to hide the fact that you are a mammal is incredibly unhygienic

[@MariaJoseRangelUwU]

Not to mention all that “clean girl” hairstyle that is actually just dirty.

[@dogearflopper7011]

Happy Easter, crucified Luigi ♡

[@Callimo]

I mean, when it comes to shaving/waxing is more of a ymmv situation. If shaving constantly leaves you red and irritated and you want to wax (or vice versa), that's up to you. Having hair, not having hair, you should be fine (unless you wax/shave between your ass cheeks, just....just be careful LOL).

[@sourstrapped]

​@@CallimoI think what they mean by unhealthy is that a lot of these "clean girls" kinda seem a little obsessed with being completely hairless. We are mammals, and mammals have body hair. So unfortunately there will be times it shows even if we shave and wax to our hearts content.

[@Callimo]

@@sourstrapped Ah, got it 👌

[@MorganMagpie]

Being disabled and on benefits, I have been penalised more than once because of a perceived too much hygiene at the assessment stage and it was always super focused on my hair. I have curly hair so had an assessor say that the fact my hair wasn't matted meant that I was overstating my disability because they couldn't understand the concept of braids and that just because my hair looks clean doesn’t mean I wash it daily. Something that would not be good for my hair anyway! Keeping up with the expectations of different groups over how hygiene and disability is an exhausting mix of moving goalposts.

[@glass.hammer]

this is the first time I’ve heard someone look at braids and curls and assume they’re not filthy. And it still backfired. can’t have shit apparently.

[@charinaviljoen6415]

I’m sorry about this being your lived experience. Women simply cannot win.

[@mikaylaholland5536]

My mom goes through similar things - she’s been mostly house bound for 4 years and part of that is immune issues that require her to be super careful about hygiene and cleanliness, but keeping up with those things is painful and exhausting. So whenever she tries to get home health care to visit a few times a week to help her shower, cook, clean, etc it’s this bizarre balancing act of like… well if you can’t do it yourself, why are you/your house clean? Or, well if it’s so important, how are you managing to be dirty now? Exhausting lol

[@Rosemary46840]

Disabled people* ​@@charinaviljoen6415

[@undeadreader23]

My nan always told me that her wrinkles were because she laughed or that she had smiled that much that it just left an imprint in her skin for the rest of her life - It showed a lifetime of happyness. Freckles, sunspots, tan lines, moles, laugh lines, stretchmarks and everything that has to do with living shows on our skin. Why would you want to go through life looking like you just came out of the god factory?

[@Eyebleachey]

I do

[@ciarabecker9800]

Medieval Europeans avoided tub baths but you better believe they were still scrubbing down with a soapy cloth every day. They were ignorant to science but they weren’t too stupid to realize that dirty = uncomfortable.

[@not_them]

I do wonder how much climate played into bathing culture too. Like I'm from scotland and submerging yourself in unheated water in an unheated house sounds deeply unpleasant. Where if you're in a warmer climate it would be far more appealing.

[@hithere911]

They also weren't as ignorant to science as we have been led to believe. People who had the opportunity to discover more about the world around them usually jumped at the chance. While this example is more Renaissance than medieval, when coffee first came to Europe and coffee shops had just become a thing, many philosophers would go to them to socialize and debate theories. And people would also go to listen to their debates. Edit: Coffee actually came to Europe much earlier than coffee shops. My mistake.

[@rjturnipsauce]

+

[@Antony_Oscar]

I'm so tired of the "medieval europeans didn't ever wash" lie being spread on the internet. There's a good blog post about it from 2019 called "I assure you, medieval people bathed" by Eleanor Janega, a medieval historian. The website is called Going Medieval.

[@toraqa3592]

also the white undergarments weren't just for show - those were washed regularly as they had direct contact with the skin, giving the outer garments more time before they too needed to be washed (which they were) but omg thanks for mentioning it, i'm enjoying the video otherwise but that segment just didn't sit right with me

[@mediatingSeamstress]

"we're people not Pinterest boards" I LOVE YOU SHANSPEAR (PLATONICALLY)

[@gagamanlovesyou7560]

homestuck pfp :3

[@mediatingSeamstress]

@ville__ wdym

[@jvghibli]

@@mediatingSeamstressi think they mean shane dawson and not shanspeare, which is why they used capital E

[@pgakt]

@@mediatingSeamstressthey’re a bot

[@mediatingSeamstress]

@@gagamanlovesyou7560 hehe yes

[@maliciousintent5398]

I've got a younger sister in her early teens. She wears a full face of makeup and does her hair every. damn. day. Recently we took a trip to the beach and EVEN THEN, when we would be splashing in the water and just hanging out (family and a few close friends) she took a couple hours to do hair and makeup. She is in middle school. She'll talk about working out for better legs/glutes and I sit there like...do you hear yourself? At such a young age you're putting in all this effort to look "perfect"? As a fucking CHILD you spend this much time and money and energy on "clean" appearances all while she gets maybe an hour of sleep each night. I worry for her and all the other little girls who see all of this shit on social media and think it's normal and healthy to have a ten-step skincare routine and don't see how it's not so much health and hygiene as it is companies exploiting their insecurities. Sorry if this comment seems a little aggressive, I'm fine with people using makeup and all, but I feel like there's a point where the reasoning being personal choice doesn't outweigh the fact that a lot of it is very exploitative.

[@uniquenewyork3325]

This may help her- tell her the best thing for her skin is to get eight hours of sleep, which is 100% true. It also helps brain development and reduces impulsivity which she may need 😅

[@Silvermoon424]

More feminists need to talk about how gross and exploitative the beauty industry is. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to look good, but the industry preys on women’s insecurities so they spend all their money on “fixes” to “problems.”

[@uniquenewyork3325]

​​@@Silvermoon424 the part that crushes me, is that modern feminism did exactly that in the 2010s. And the world responded by calling them hairy armpit smelly feminazis.

[@annaleena1975]

Oof. It’s crazy how straight up preteens have these super elaborate skincare routines, some of them even using actives like retinol and chemical exfoliants, which are definitely not good for them. Their skin is going to be absolutely wrecked by the time they turn 18, which means they’ll have to buy more products from Sephora and get expensive treatments in the future to fix it 🫠

[@honeybun3492]

@@Silvermoon424 We tried it. Choice feminism called us oppressive. The "girls just wanna have fun" crowd will call feminists killjoys and buzzkills if you mention it but go head

[@jamesstark6499]

The quote about “Baths, sex, and wine ruin our bodies, but they’re the essence of life,” just has me thinking of the song from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend-“Cold Showers”

[@PeeperSnail]

As someone who REALLY, I mean REALLY struggles with personal hygiene due to mental health reasons (there's been times I haven't showered in MONTHS), those "anti-hygiene" influencers never once made me feel seen nor offered good advice for my situation. If anything, they made me feel a lot worse, since these people were both so wealthy and completely uncaring about actually encouraging ways to improve one's hygiene that wasn't a long, meticulous daily routine. It was always either an extremely tiring and expensive daily routine, or attempting to become a walking biohazard by never wiping their ass, wearing the same clothes for months at a time, and not using soap when showering.

[@PeeperSnail]

For anyone struggling with hygiene due to financial or health rreasons, here's advice I've learned along the way: > When you're able to shower, do not try to do it daily. Not only is this not necessary for most people (unless your work makes you enter in contact with extremely dirty things), but if for whatever reason you fall out of schedule, you'll smell worse, as your skin will get accustomed to having its natural oils being wiped away, and thus will create even more. > If you can't brush your teeth, try using just floss/interdental cleaners. If this isn't possible either, rinse your mouth with mouthwash or even just plain tap water. It'll go a long way. > Change your clothes regularly. Most of the stink is concentrated on these, and constant use can really diminish their useability. > Use facial wipes to wipe both your face and your body in case you cannot shower. Alternatively, a rag with soap and warm water also does the trick. > Use deodorant and consider using dry shampoo.

[@charinaviljoen6415]

I also have horrid hygiene (although on bad weeks i get around 1 shower a week) and ive found what helps is making it easier/enticing you to shower. For me it was cold, i HATE HATE HAAAAAAAAAATE feeling cold and my insatiable boredom. Now I’ve worked around that by playing a good podcast or video (hah usually one like this one) and having my entire floor covered in towels so my feet dont feel cold. The next step will be getting a heater. I know the same wont give you comfort but what i was hoping was to give you an example of how you can try to change it yourself. Good luck girlie. Showering is so shit house. Edit: my real bad hygiene is centred around my hair and clothin

[@Sleepy_Sunshine]

@@charinaviljoen6415 for me it's playing music, being able to take a long shower, and being able to SIT i have to either have a stool or a clean tub so i can sit, because otherwise i have to rush so my back doesn't ache and my tub doesn't make my feet sting, and rushing means i can't enjoy the pleasures a shower can bring, like feeling the water run over you, the droning sound of the water, and the feeling of isolation, so it discourages me from wanting to do it anytime soon, cause i don't have the spoons for a rushing shower that takes 20 mins and i'm cold way too soon, everything beyond the water is a sensory nightmare hate having soapy textures and slimy textures on my hands and skin, i have to wash my hands off between each step of my hair routine, because i HATE the feeling of conditioner on my hands, and music helps because i can sit there the water running over my and imagine my little characters dancing to the music lol and, something I've noticed, i still live with my parents, whenever i'm staying somewhere else or i have the place to myself, i have much more motivation to do hygiene tasks, because i don't feel like I'm being observed and judged, my parents know i don't have good hygiene and feel the need to comment on it, like its going to help, when i am alone or at someone else's house, i either can do what i need to do in peace and quiet, or the people around me don't comment, because they assume i know how to care for myself the best way possible for me, and it makes it much easier to go about my business peacefully, so those of you who also still live with a unhelpful critical parent, and struggle with executive functions, it might get better and easier without them around

[@yourancientancestor]

They don't give a shit about mental health or actual bacterial cleanliness they're referring to the aesthetic that's literally it lol plain smooth monochrome basic aesthetic

[@harrylane4]

@@PeeperSnail nusr as a little addition, the part about showering daily should be kept in mind if you have high testosterone levels, including (some) trans men on T. Obviously use your own smell to judge, but for a lot of young men or trans men just starting T and still in the “second puberty” phase, unfortunately you should expect hygeine to get a tiny bit harder 😔

[@magikarpg]

I was once minding my own business outside when an older lady came to me and said "you should consider washing your face" lmao. I told her I've had acne for 19 years and I bet she was thinking "you haven't washed your face in 19 years??" It was a baffling, demoralising encounter. :')

[@heavensbambi]

she'll pass away soon, don't let it bother u.

[@kenyaillianart4346]

You mean to tell me that instead of trying all those skin care products, medications and diet changes, all I had to do wash my face???😱😱😱

[@gem9535]

Bro, the audacity of that comment. Older people constantly demand respect while they act like THIS.

[@pumpumdtt]

@@heavensbambichill lmao

[@anniestumpy9918]

I'm sorry you had this encounter with that lady that clearly lacked empathy! Feel hugged 🤗 (if you're okay with that) I know how much it can hurt to be judged for elements of your appearance that you can't even change. Some people just still have to learn a lot ...

[@squimbling]

i'm wondering if the 'clean girl' kind of sets big name influencers apart from the rest and makes them more unattainable than your average influencer? since tiktok, virtually anyone can be an influencer, i can't help but think that these unattainable aesthetics of cleanliness and pefection is a way of some of these content creators to try and distinguish the proverbial cream from the crop...

[@nadiam926]

I remember a newsletter from Jessica DeFino, where she mentioned that in the body acceptance/self love discourse, skin wasn't included. If you have acne, theres little in media and society that suggests that such a thing is normal or acceptable. I am experiencing hormonal acne, and i must take medication to control it. So many people suggested i have a more hygienic routine to get rid of the acne. Its infuriating, to assume that lack of hygiene is the reason for my acne.

[@flowerheit4512]

+

[@raybradburied]

Psoriasis sufferer here 🙋🏻‍♀️ fully agree!!

[@mobbagg0812]

People who have never struggled with acne are clueless about it! The amount of times that I’ve expressed frustration about my acne after years and years of trying to have clear skin and my friends and sister with naturally clear skin will say to me “why don’t you just wash your face? You know they sell face wash for acne right? One time I had a zit so I used an acne face wash and now it’s gone”. Like girl it’s not as simple as washing your face or not!

[@doid4354]

@@mobbagg0812Yup. It’s always the people who get 2 zits every 3 months that think they know what it’s like to have acne 😂. Nah bitch you would not last A DAY in my skin. I always ignore these people, they don’t get it and they never will. They don’t know how much self love it takes to get through the day when your face looks like roadkill. They don’t have our strength fs

[@er6730]

I think it's so tied up with the fact that sometimes acne does come from not washing enough, so those people say "I get bacne if I don't shower for 4 days, but now I do it at least every other day and it's gone!" as a helpful tip. Or in the case of some people, being extra clean by changing the pillowcase every night reduced their acne. And that's not normal, at least I think it's common practice to change the pillowcase once a week at most, so for them, it's helpful advice. People love to give advice. Sometimes it's helpful, but often it's just added another irritation to an already burdened person.

[@herecomemacOnTT]

My roommate over the last 3 years (who I am related to, but owns the house) is a very Rae Dunn white girl aesthetic subscriber, and has a crusty Maltese and three cats she doesn’t take care of. The house APPEARS minimalist and pristine, but then you notice strange rings on the floor,and smell a strange funk from her room. She lets her dog piss and shit everywhere, only picking up the poop and throwing a paper towel on the pee to sop it up, and her cat box is constantly overflowing and dirty to the point I have to buy more litter for my OWN cat box, as all the cats use the one that is cleaned regularly. She only mops and cleans the litter box when she’s expecting company, but she has a mini fridge in her bathroom to chill skin care items so they cool her face when she applies them (they do NOT require refrigeration at all) and buys all of her hygiene items from Ulta while food rots uncovered in the fridge and dishes pile up from her using every pot and pan in the house for a single meal that will go in the fridge to rot, and then she’ll ask ME to do the dishes while not sharing the food she made. It’s a fucking nightmare, so whenever I see her picture perfect Insta selfies it makes me so mad, KNOWING that she lives like a pig. Me? I look and live like a gremlin, but at least I try to keep things clean, it’s just tiring when there’s animal piss everywhere.

[@halkiierid4084]

As someone who used to live with a very elderly dog with incontinence issues, I can't fathom WILLINGLY let your dog do their business in the house.

[@BnnBznaj]

Yeah made a similar experience with my roommate(s) in University ,gosh 😂

[@xg2513]

I wanted to interject as someone with fragrance allergies. The idea that fragrance makes you clean is beyond ridiculous and I’ve always felt annoyed by society’s OBSESSION with fragrance. I’m allergic to basically all artificial fragrance. Tell me why I have to HUNT to find unscented garbage bags, unscented tissues, unscented detergent. Why do these things need scents? I would love a video essay on peoples obsession with added fragrance because living with an allergy calls attention to how fragrance is in EVERYTHING

[@LMvonLebkuchen]

What's nuts is that "unscented" doesn't always mean "fragrance-free". I can't remember the brand names off the top of my head but when I was looking for deodorant and body wash that didn't have scent added there were a few that sounded like they'd fit the bill... until I checked the ingredients. "Parfum", "Fragrance". WHY?

[@xg2513]

@@LMvonLebkuchen DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED!!!! Stuff will be unscented and then literally have added "parfum" and Im like uhhh this is false advertising!

[@jpage813]

I really miss who I was before I heard “poop shavings” and “poop on her sleeve” 🤢🤢🤢. But this video really shined a light on arguments I would have with a white friend in middle school. She thought I was gross for not washing my hair everyday (🙃) but I thought she was gross for taking “2-minute showers” that were basically comprised of washing her hair and letting the shampoo run down and not scrubbing her legs or feet.

[@halkiierid4084]

I'm white, and I don't wash my hair every day. If I do, it makes my scalp horribly itchy, and it looks much nastier because it starts flaking.

[@RS-mu9cw]

I remember at school the kids who were made fun off for being unclean were usually incredibly neglected at home but for some reason no one noticed this as a sign of child neglect.

[@jbell7105]

And they were the bullies too

[@kiya_ki260]

@@jbell7105no no they weren’t😭

[@BlueCyann]

Yeah, that's so weird. As a child you don't think of the reasons (if you come from a home without those problems, yourself), but in retrospect it's like, what were all those adults doing? There is no way that 8 year old child smelled like that of his own accord. Did anybody even try to do anything?

[@robbieboydudeguy]

Yeah I had to repeat clothes a lot and some of them had threads coming undone, which either I didn’t know how to mend or my parents didn’t have the time to mend cause they didn’t have enough money to be home a lot, and it was always teachers making comments about how I looked raggedy. No further questions, just a whip quick, “You should get a new vest.” As if my 10 year old self wanted to be threadbare 💀

[@Alex_Barbosa]

It most likely isn't neglect, just poor families.

[@user-ov3yb9lk4o]

Jenna marbles was a good example of an influencer who wasn’t seen as anti hygienic but still didn’t perform it to the camera (in the sense that she didn’t show up in a full face always).

[@croissant2882]

Yeah and her makeup wasnt super professional, just a normal everyday thing with eyebrow sisters-not-twins and cheap mascara we would all use She was there for fun, not gain, she truly was a relatable person that was just funny and knew how to use that on social media.

[@asukalangleysoryu8449]

i miss her she was so iconic.

[@Gudrqa]

I just need to add that the "European" part of history is only about the more popular countries. If you see any black plague statistics you can see how little it impacted Poland. It's a combination of small cities spread around but also that people were bathing much much more. We don't really have a lot of slavic/early christian history of these regions (because christians eradicated it and slavic people had much less written texts) but it's sad to ignore what little we have. Europe is not a monolith either. It's sad to lump it together just to prove your point. Same with Jewish bathing traditions and much, much more.

[@DorpyScorpy]

Islam also put a heavy emphasis on personal grooming and hygiene, but the whole Islamic region lost roughly 33% of their population during the first waves of the Black Death. Therefore I do not think bathing traditions had that much of an impact on reducing the Black Death transmission; if it did, we should see significantly less casualties in Islamic countries which did not happen. The Eurocentric view of history sadly overshadowed the impact of these global catastrophes on non-European countries, which leads to so many misconceptions. A sparse population + less travel between cities is likely a much more important factor than personal grooming, which did not help Islamic countries at all.

[@Neineon77]

When I was first transitioning I was obsessed with hygiene bc I was taught that being dirty or having body odor was considered masculine

[@sanadvir]

Omg I just thought something similar: Being sweaty / having acne / letting my body hair grow can be gender affirming to me sometimes (I’m trans masc), because I associate it with masculinity. (But of course, this connection is learned and women/femmes can be smelly or dirty, too ^^

[@The_Official_King_Clawthorne]

@@sanadvirI’m trans masc too! I finally have a little bit of a beard going but my problem is that I love being able to shave my face so trying to grow it out is really hard because I want to shave instead

[@mermaidpotato]

A note from somebody pretty deep into European historical costuming/reenacting: I think it's helpful to frame the cultural positioning of white shirts in a way that's a little more mundane. These shirts were the length of modern dresses and were, usually, the only piece of clothing directly contacting your skin, so they would be picking up all of the skin-oils and most of the skin-smell. They would be changed super often, I've heard some accounts that it could be multiple times a day. So saying they owned more shirts than any other item of clothing is like saying a modern American owns more underwear than any other item of clothing. And I definitely do own more pairs of underwear than pants! It's maybe tied with shirts. I'm critiquing the book you're using as a source, more than anything, because I personally don't really believe that treating attitudes from the past as foreign or super different from us is that helpful. If we make the much closer comparison--to the near-ubiquitous modern-day underwear--we suddenly have an example of a group of people who felt almost exactly the same as us about the necessity of their chosen undergarment, which is *different* from ours, and you can see that that attitude, which was a part of the xenophobic colonialism-justification-machine, isn't missing from the modern day. Edit: So, basically, the point I think you made much better at the end about the way that hygiene becomes tied up in morality (understandably, often through mass death events) and then people don't push past the initial disgust response in the way that would be necessary to understand how someone else might have a different cleanliness routine or even *gasp* a different *definition* of hygiene altogether. Great vid, Shan!

[@violetsnotroses3640]

Thanks for saying this, came down here to see if anyone was defending linen shirts! Linen is a super absorbent material. I think it’s also notable that people needed these undergarments to keep their outerwear from getting sweaty because the materials they were made of (wool, silk if you were rich) were not easily washable. Submerging yourself in a warm bath was a very labor intensive prospect, too.

[@PatchworkNovelties]

I was wondering if anyone would mention this. That said, how white your shirts were was definitely tied up in status and class EDIT: cause cleaning takes time and effort and there's a difference between a clean shirt and a white shirt

[@joylox]

I was going to say I was similar with undershirts in middle and high school. Especially in middle school, I wore tank tops a lot because I didn't want to wear bras, and just getting a camisole with an extra layer, or being tight enough, helped a lot. Plus, it was fun to have different colours to wear under my uniform shirts so the colour would stick out the bottom (when having layers and lacy trim under other shirts was a trend in the 2000s). I had so many of them, easily 3 times as many of them as I had uniform shirts, because if I wore something under it, then I could wear the other shirt more. You just wash the under layer after each wear, and then the outer layer can stay clean for longer. Which would have been much more important before washing machines when doing laundry would take all day.

[@abigailbailey9633]

The awesome historian and educator Ruth Goodman did a little experiment with the cast and crew when she was filming 'Tudor Farm' and writing her book 'How to be a Tudor'. For about two weeks, all of them wore the same unlaundered outer clothes a was normal in the period, she had half of them shower completely every day (if I remember correctly they could also apply deodorant) but wear the same shift. The other half would only wash face and hands, but changed their shift daily. The shower-and-deodorant group had noticeable BO by the end of the two weeks. The clean linen group barely smelled at all.

[@Bokatisha1234]

People used to always try to give me tips on getting rid of my huge eye bags and get so offended and confused when I tell them I like them. They remind me of my dad. I used to be told how much I looked like my abusive mom, and the eye bags connect me to my dad, and make me feel better and I recognize my face better when I'm in a bad mental space.

[@keelyemerine-mix1051]

Wow, I think I really understand this! I wear my hair way shorter than *some* deem acceptable, but age and short hair have made me look, at least to me, like my dad (and many steps away from looking like my abusive mother). For that reason, for just the ability to see his face in mine, I'm keeping my hair short.

[@TomMinnow]

Eye luggage gang!! I've grown to like mine too. Also means I can simply take off my glasses and frown and my boss will tell me to take the day off because I look ill lmao

[@cassualtea2040]

Ohhh a fellow eye bag enjoyer!! Personally I like my dark undereyes because they give depth to my face, I've had them covered up for family events and stuff before and I just feel like my eyes dont pop as much without them.

[@misstekhead]

I’m so glad to not be the only one that has a similar reason for loving an imperfection on my body. I have hands that are VERY red along my palms and fingers. There are other areas on my body with pigmentations that would be considered “unwanted”, but at this point they remind me of my father who is of Native American descent and passed away when I was young. They are in no way a health concern and it’s all superficial cosmetic “concerns” of others pointing it out to me. In the same way we encourage people from a young age to keep their hands to themselves, I wish we emphasized not commenting on another person’s body or looks. Rock those beautiful eyes!

[@MichiruEll]

I feel this about my overlapping front teeth. I love them because they overlap in the same way as my mother's do and my grandmother's used to do as well.

[@Owesomasaurus]

Theres an overlap with "clean" eating and wellness culture's obsession with bodily purity, where what food you eat is elevated to a moral imperitive.

[@krista6538]

absolutely and well said. The ties are definitely there and come from a similar sentiment/motivation to be “pure” in a bodily sense

[@Diamond-db3fx]

it is… you can’t eat like crap and be into wellness lol

[@lkcullen1918]

And I've noticed there's a slippery-slope there into anti-vax territory. People took "Food is medicine" and RANNN

[@DreamItCraftIt]

Im obese and feel like UTTER SHIT. If you eat well you will feel good. This is just veritable fact

[@actualgoblin]

​@@DreamItCraftItyeah but i feel like "clean eating" can be overly restrictive

[@lunatykica5636]

Historically, bathing and cleaning weren't always the same thing. Bathing referred more to full body submersion- which was dangerous for most people who'd have to use rivers (currents) or lakes (parasites) for that. Afair the average person did what we call sponge bathing instead. Which ironically is considered unclean today largely due to ableism.

[@Varanids]

i dated a fat person and one day we were talking about hygiene, and they told me they are constantly terrified people will smell ANY bad smell and immediately assume it was coming from them, because that happened to them their entire life. like, we both had the same mental illnesses, and cleaning habits, but they would go out of their way to ensure they had a daily shower, because of how they were perceived by others. some days i would skip a shower because i, a thin white femme, could afford to indulge the "i'm not prepared mentally to shower today," but they were not allowed to do that, because they were fat. it was VERY eye-opening.

[@xanclips.gg48]

Self care is taking an hour out of ur day to watch shanspeare and not 11 step Korean skincare routine atp

[@Afterglow_333]

@ville__ you mean SHANE, right?

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

@@Afterglow_333 They're a troll harassing several creators online. Please report as spam or harassment or otherwise ignore them. People are trying to get KZbin to limit their destructive behaviours & it undermines those efforts when you respond to them like they are real people writing real comments. They aren't. It's all spam they post the same hateful misinformation whenever they do this crap. It confuses the algorithm into thinking it's not spam-posting harassment across progressive creator pages when people who don't know better interact with them.

[@missmia196]

Why not both at the same time ✨

[@Afterglow_333]

@@picahudsoniaunflocked5426 sorry, I hadn’t seen any of these in particular so I wasn’t aware it was a spammer. I don’t mean to “undermine your efforts” was literally confused.

[@Diamond-db3fx]

self care is both…

[@kerisaltchannel3817]

4:03 we need this reminder! Acne shouldn’t be seen as ugly! The only reason I hate pimples is because it HURTS.

[@lunairies]

Me too~! I am genetically predisposed to acne from both my parents so I will never have clear skin without the help of medications such as Acutane due to my hormones. I wouldn't have an issue with my acne if it didn't hurt so much, and god does it hurt most days, especially leading up to my period.

[@gwennorthcutt421]

goddddd i know. i wouldnt worry about blemishes so much if they didnt also hurt sometimes. i have to squish something to stim bc otherwise id feel compelled to keep messing with them or worse, popping them to make it Stop

[@Sofia-zg8ix]

So trueee

[@gem9535]

I only pop pimples when they hurt. If they don't, I let them chill. Sometimes they're only there for a few days, other times for a couple of WEEKS. Either way, they can stay as long as they don't hurt.

[@user-kx5en8dg7u]

100% agree! i don't have acne, but ive never seen anyone with acne and thought that they are ugly because of it. perhaps that's because i had family with acne and knew from an early age that it is just an unfortunate skin condition for most people, and not the result of poor hygiene. i'm not sure why that mindset is still around. i knew kids in school with terrible hygiene and flawless skin. it's really genetic most of the time

[@Kossa-Odessa]

I have no idea what poopgate is and I dread the fact that I will probably be learning about it in this video.

[@gem9535]

Same.

[@Jamangel]

Oh god

[@JuliesManyHats]

I spent sixteen years on Twitter being my fat, feminist, loud self, but none of that compared to my most hated tweet: I said showering was annoying and I didn't like it. This was in a conversation about neurodiversity and how executive dysfunction makes hygiene harder, just like Jay said in your video. Of course, none of that context mattered and people assumed "I don't like showering" meant "I don't shower." The way people came after me was bonkers-: calling me filthy, dirty, smelly, a bad mom, a waste of space, everything. BUT. I also got a lot of gratitude from folks who struggle with the same issue and feel too ashamed to talk about it. Helping people feel seen made it 100% worth the amount of blocking I had to do.

[@TsubasaVampire]

The reason for linen shifts had less to do with the color (beyond how easily white could be bleached) and more to do with being a barrier between the skin and clothing, linins were relatively inexpensive and could be changed and washed regularly whereas the outer clothes were more expensive and difficult to wash. The shifts were so completely equated with cleanliness cause they kept clothes clean from the unwashed wearer, and the wearer clean from any unwashed bedding. So it was essentially a 1-1 for underwear and the equivalent of modern people oppressing others for wearing underwear that is "too slutty" no matter how normal it is lol

[@idiedeadandicoulntbreath]

Love the plague mask in the background

[@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx]

On the subject of all the white linen shirts/chemises - people used to own so many because they were easier to clean than outer garments, so instead of constantly washing your 1or two outer dress(es) or tunic(s), you switched your undergarment every day or so as it got sweaty/grimy.

[@TaylorHam]

As someone who suffers from contamination OCD, I gotta say this "clean" movement has made it really hard to get unbiased information to help soothe my anxiety about cleaning and disease and hygiene. It isnt great that im seeking affirmation from the internet for this as that can feed the obsessions on a good day, but its overwhelming when people online seem to be afflicted with a kind of "social contamination OCD" and end up making over the top clean lifestyle content with voice over rhetoric that is honestly triggering.

[@JustIsold]

Clean by James Hamblin really helped me tackle my worries about hygiene, it talks about how the concept is constructed and how we arrived where we are. I don't know that it would necessarily help with OCD but I wanted to suggest it anyway

[@Kikkarlin]

Yeah the amount of differing opinions online sends my OCD into a frenzy too. I'll occasionally come across content that will make it hard not to develop a new compulsion because now x is never clean enough so I have to wash my hands every time I touch it. I won't go looking for it but the algorithm will show it and it is ten times harder when it's someone who should be knowledgeable but is the only one in their field saying the thing. Bc on the one hand, 'they're an expert', but on the other hand places like the WHO or the CDC haven't said anything similar so you're like not just battling the ocd but also wondering if it is even credible information that you should incorporate without anxiety/compulsions.

[@TaylorHam]

@@Kikkarlin this is all so real wow thanks for sharing. I feel so seen with the "new unclean thing, now i have to wash hands after touching it" part. And i totally agree with the frustration of the one expert talking about a topic. It's also frustrating because sometimes the cdc lies lol like with their reduced covid quarantine so i have a hard time trusting them now. It just sucks when i'll be scrolling on tiktok and get a video that is deliberately trying to evoke a grossed out response in order to keep attention. Their audience might forget in a day but if im not super fast with swiping i might have a new compulsion to battle 😔 i wish health/skin/disease content creators would put a trigger warning tbh

[@shamra1245]

This is the biggest mood 😔

[@sgsummerisle]

So, I'm a fat influencer in the beauty space and I'm very open about my struggles with hygiene and cleanliness. I shower two to three times a week, but due to a number of factors, I find it incredibly difficult to get myself into the shower and sometimes can try all day and still fail. I'm not saying I'm every fat influencer, but I feel like my audience feels compassionate and often seen by my struggles, and sometimes I even go to them for help if I need an extra boost to get myself in the shower. I guess I'm just saying this because even though fat people are treated worse overall, there are ways to overcome that and still be yourself.

[@susie8799]

I have such horrible cleanliness anxiety. I’m constantly worried I smell bad or I missed a spot while bathing.

[@victoriajankowski1197]

As a disabled person who has to schedule my showers around my other needs within the hourly limits of my care giver I feel discussions around hygiene are usually lacking in nuance and empathy, very few people choose or desire to be dirty, while tolerances varies if someone is noticeably 'unclean' there probably something else going on.

[@joyterri548]

Funny enough I saw a TikTok about how not painting your toenails and not having a pedicure is unclean... Had me a bit confused because since when? I get wanting to look nice but how is it unclean? I don't have 60-80 dollars to spend on a pedicure every other week 😭😭

[@theunderstatement6842]

it's funny because painting your toenails makes it harder to see if dirt has been trapped underneath the nails, so that's even grosser

[@gingerjessietalks7685]

I'm not saying I agree with them, but I can a little bit see where they're coming from in terms of how getting a pedicure will often remove the dead skin from your feet, etc. I've only gotten one once though, it was too uncomfortable to have someone down at my feet doing stuff lol. Plus expensive

[@glass.hammer]

The only time I can say a pedicure, not necessarily getting your nails painted, is a good sign of hygiene is if you have chronic hang nails that can get badly infected. Keeping them trimmed, keeping your cuticles and dead skin managed is pretty essential. But that’s shit you can do at home too if you’re skilled enough.

[@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396]

It’s unclean…says the mani pedi people. Putting polish on your nails is actually not healthy. It’s paint.

[@eyesofwater123]

So it's better to "appear" clean vs. actually being clean. I'm sick of people

[@T.JacobMain]

yes people are shallow as fuck lmao

[@joylox]

Reminds me of the people who go to comic cons and think that deodorant or perfume is just as good as a shower. Nope... For one I'm allergic to those scented things, but also it's just there to cover up dirt, not actually clean.

[@glass.hammer]

@@joylox I feel for fursuiters. Even if they wanted to, it’s painfully difficult to wash the sweat and dirt out of fur suits. A friend of mine still tried, but it was always a lost cause. She’d just boil under all of that fabric despite basically taking a chemical shower before putting it on. There’s a reason why convention buildings are at most like 60°F usually.

[@AngryMothNoises]

People seem to forget that cleaning to much can be bad for you. I can't help when people say they wash their hair everyday. Its so bad for your hair to wash it everyday.

[@alexanderreynolds6018]

Ngl, people say that especially in the curly hair space, but my hair feels better, looks better, and behaves better when I wash it every day, and it's extremely curly. Trust me I have done the co washing and the no poo and the every three days before, for months on end, always hoping my hair will "adjust". It never does and I always go back to washing every day so it looks good and behaves well.

[@uglysongsforuglysouls]

⁠@@alexanderreynolds6018yes, bathing needs vary among people

[@user-kx5en8dg7u]

it really depends on the person. i absolutely have to shampoo every day, and it's the only way my hair stays healthy. others are good with every 3 days and 1x a week. i agree though that people shouldn't be hygiene shamed into cleanliness habits that harm them

[@KateRunsIntoWalls]

I want to comment on the white linen thing - the reason why white linen was specifically worn under clothes is because it was easier to wash and also kept the body cooler, while protecting the garment worn over the white linen from getting sweat and oils on it. I don't doubt that the rich definitely flexed over how white they managed to keep their shifts, but if you read personal historical accounts of ordinary working class people, they very much bathed regularly and the linen shifts were white because they were just plain and un-dyed linens that would be easier to wash more regularly in hot water for sanitation purposes.

[@stinkyspicee]

Thank you for saying we're currently living thru a pandemic. Wit almost everyone I know ignoring covid, it can feel like I'm "crazy" for still being cautious 😆

[@childofgod759]

people dont even wear masks anymore :/ its like people just stopped giving a shit about the disabled and immunocompromised im living in hell right now

[@nadiam926]

I just can't believe (but I actually can) how many people still can't even cover their mouths when sneezing and coughing, and can't be bothered to wash their hands. 😢

[@TMJW]

@@childofgod759 This assumes people ever gave a shit about the disabled/immune compromised. We’re only there for people who want to perform awareness and then we’re immediately cast aside the moment people actually have to inconvenience themselves

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

Fab Socialism posted one of the most beautiful videos I've seen about the pandemic being ongoing a couple months ago. If you like Shan you'll prob like Fab Socialism too. I've got immune issues so the pandemic has been very present & still is, & it sucks I'm having to choose between social isolation & exposure to viruses that will likely disable me more than I already am (I'm less worried about dying than the likelihood it'll mean a year or two of more extreme symptoms & fatigue, since just catching a cold destabilizes me for weeks.)

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

@@childofgod759 I just tried to shop for more masks (I have to wear them bc I'm already immune compromised). My local shops have stopped ordering N95s, I went to like 4 of them yesterday bc I only have 3 masks left. Looks like I'll have to order online.

[@TyMarie92]

Intelexual Media did a video on a history of hygiene and the hygiene olympics among black women on her channel a while ago. I feel like that's a good companion video to this one for anyone else interested in the topic.

[@Boohurghhoo]

Exactly!! They would go hand in hand fr. What this video maybe didn't get that video will, what that video didn't this video will esp regarding black women. Watch them back to back 5 time over if you have to.

[@mindyowens6676]

I love Intelexual Media ❤

[@GwendolynnBY]

every time someone mentions "dewy" skin as a goal, all i can think is 'you want to look moist? you want to look sweaty?'

[@toyaJM]

When you hit a certain age your skin starts to get dry so it makes sense to want a dewy youthful look

[@fishy000]

"Dewy" doesn't usually look literally wet and dripping, unless you're doing it wrong or don't have the proper skin properties to begin with. If you're already oily, you'll likely end up too shiny. If you have texture, dryness, or acne it just won't be smooth. I personally can't achieve it with my combination dry/oily skin and texture (nor do I have the desire to), but that's just not what it's supposed to be. Dewy skin just means very hydrated, smooth, and fresh with a very slight shine or "glow". Not straight up wet.

[@Em-tj6rh]

No, I think people mean they want to have like a natural glow

[@eggy3231]

keep in mind that the trend that preceded the current dewy boom was matte skin/lips/eyeshadow. Oily skin was considered a flaw that needed to be fixed, and most products available had a heavy matte finish, and were followed up with a thick layer of powder. In comparison to that time, having even a normal amount of oil on the skin is "dewy".

[@blue-dabad33]

as an oily skin girly who grew up in the age of matte skin reigning supreme, i have never been able to get behind the dewy/glass skin look because no matter how much i like the idea of it I am terrified of being perceived as greasy

[@MichellaneousMe]

My name is Michelle but I was still called shanaynay or Mishanany (or Michelle Obamaniqua). They were some creative bullies for sure. I had totally forgotten that childhood nightmare, but you talking about your similar experience opened up that memory box lol

[@freezerburning]

so interesting fact, my mother has lots of medical conditions and SUPER sensitive skin, so she can only properly shower every few weeks (sometimes even months) so she doesnt have to go to the hospital with severe chemical burns and bleeding from excessive skin flaking. she does still keep The Important Parts clean but she often physically cannot be in a hot shower without having to calculate the risks.

[@idknemore525]

I'm fat and bearded and there have been more times than I could keep track of where someone "complimented" me by saying I smell surprisingly good and they assumed I would smell bad when they first saw me.

[@Jess-qk1qh]

As an autist with executive function, Jay is absolutely right. I can know I need a wash for days on end but just not be able to start

[@missdenisebee]

Executive dysfunction is the worst. Especially when people think you just dgaf, but internally you’re berating yourself & worrying about whatever you’re not doing, until it’s all you can think about…but you STILL CAN’T DO IT😭

[@Jess-qk1qh]

@@missdenisebee absolutely, you feel like sh*t

[@xiola]

Yeah at this point I basically have the half of the week where I can go out and the half of the week where I'm too ashamed to leave the house because I feel gross and my hair looks like shit but I can't manage to deal with taking a shower... eventually I'll take one but depending how bad my sensory issues end up being it'll be anywhere from 30~75% of my spoons for the day :/

[@chocomelo454]

I don't have that that's just my depression and adhd having an all-out war with my brain damage as the hostage, but damn that's so me. Even though someone would probably consider a future where people can shower without needing to stand up and get everything ready and start the water and wait for it to heat up and try to carefully get their body to adjust to the water and that jazz to be dystopian, I kinda wish it did exist. I'm always Lightheaded it sucks and half of the time I'm probably konked tf out so if someone made a shower that you can just step into and just basically becomes a human car wash, yk spraying the soap and water on and being relatively quick if not even enjoyable (love that rainbow soap) I wouldn't be complaining. Bonus if it can also dry you off quickly and stores clothes for you so that if you're in a pinch and are missing like, socks or whatever all of trim are in the laundry, you can just press a button and boom emergency socks.

[@gwennorthcutt421]

ugh ive had the same struggle! for me the "foot in the door" technique works well. instead of having a full shower, i'll tell meself, i'll just rinse myself off, thats all i need to do. sometimes thats all i really do, but even that's better than before. more often than not, however, i find myself thinking, well, im already in the wetbox might as well use soap while im here. ditto with washing my hair. after a few weeks or months of doing this, taking a shower is sort of "demystified". it doesnt feel as Big or Difficult as it did bc the steps are familiar to me so it doesnt take as much time. it's become another routine. i have shampoo in a nice scent and soap with a quality i like, and washclothes with fun patterns. little things like that can help make it a more enjoyable experience too. ive also got one of those silicone head scrubbers not bc of ~influencers~ but bc i rly like the feeling of it. like a dog getting hteir head scritched :) ive joked about going to take a shower to "get groomed" haha

[@VelcroPoodle]

I have sensory disorders that trigger migraines, idc if I'm considered ""unhygienic"", I'll never wear perfume.

[@sariannas2799]

Yeah - I know a lot of people who are very sensitive to artificial scents. People talking about how strong and long-lasting perfumed products are as positives always makes me uncomfortable.

[@guggelguggel7491]

I dont have as bad an issue, but as a kid I was waay more sensitive to smells, especially perfume and I could Not fathom why so many girls my age (from around age 9 and up) were using perfume, and I bet everyone thought my coughing was perfomative... I remember once I literally couldnt stand near one of my teachers because she smelled so strongly. I swear nobody liked me when I called her "heavy smelling" because she was everyones favorite teacher, but I genuinely couldnt stand whatever perfume she was wearing. Have only ever worn mild cologne when going to parties, which is Rare. Dont think Ill ever really "get" perfumes. Same with makeup but not olfactory based reasons, more, "I cant bother, you do you but be careful with your self image".

[@nerdycurls6253]

​@@guggelguggel7491 young children are usually more sensitive to smells (perfume/candles etc). I work with young children and my building is a scent free zone much like a medical space would be, it's not healthy for anyone to constantly inhale manufactured scents 24/7.

[@avavavaa]

I do too! I remember as a kid my eyes would water and sometimes I’d even cough because of all the body sprays pretty much everyone used. I’m still sensitive to smells especially in stores. For some reason the smell of new clothing and products give me migraines. Today I use unscented products but I found a nice perfume oil that doesn’t affect me badly.

[@joylox]

Me too. With perfumes, scented products, and also a lot of household cleaners. Thankfully I found some local brands that make unscented or more mild disinfectants, soaps, and shampoo, but I've been judged for it. Like, no, you don't have to soak your clothes in perfume to clean them, even a nurse I saw about the issue said she washes all her stuff in baking soda and vinegar and suggested the brand of unscented hair products I use.

[@Smetterpetter]

Poop-gate is such versatile word. Shut your poop gate. Hurry! The poop gate is opening!! Who blew the toilet, it’s a real poop gate in there.

[@maryella7163]

The linen shirts of Europe did actually serve a purpose. They 1) kept the oils and sweat from the body from getting on the outer garments, meaning they had to wash them less frequently, and 2) linen does wick up oil and sweat, so changing into a clean shirt did was a form of washing

[@jdng86]

This clean girl aesthetic just makes me think of Frank Reynolds covered in hand sanitizer lamenting not being pure.

[@VirtualRealibri]

The original clean girl.

[@geheseo]

Saying people didn't keep themselves clean in the middle ages etc. just because they didn't bathe is so misleading. The "problem" at the time was submerging oneself in the water. People still cleaned themselves using washclothes and a bucket etc. Also people changed their linen shirts so often, even multiple times a day. Yes they weren't as clean as we like it today but they weren't some uncivilised dirty people.

[@ph5.484]

It's honestly such a shame, I was enjoying the video until it came out with the same old sensationalized history myths :/ It's a real miss

[@Antony_Oscar]

I'm so tired of the "medieval europeans didn't ever wash" lie. For anyone interested to learn more, there's a good blog post about it from 2019 called "I assure you, medieval people bathed" by Eleanor Janega, a medieval historian. The website is called Going Medieval.

[@amethystle]

And there also seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding by this creator (and possibly a completely intentional misrepresentation by the source the creator is quoting) as to the purpose of linen undergarments. The whole point of having multiple white linen undergarments was that linen is a highly breathable fabric that is also highly absorbent. In a time when people didn't have antiperspirant, and only had a couple changes of clothing, linen undergarments absorbed sweat and kept body temperatures regulated. People had more linen undergarments than outerwear because they changed their linen undergarments more frequently in order to keep their outer clothing from becoming sweaty, smelling bad, and needing to be washed more often, which would cause those clothing items to wear out faster. Linen was more durable, could be washed regularly, and hung or laid out in the sun to dry (the UV rays of the sun of course would kill the bacteria, though people didn't know that at the time). Linen undergarments were considered good hygiene because they actually WERE good hygiene, not simply because they were white.

[@furbyacolyte5604]

​@@amethystle the key here is "white". white clothing was not the default, especially not for landed gentry.

[@eldara3]

@@furbyacolyte5604 Except that, if it was linen, white *would* be default, because undyed linen is inherently off-white with greyish or yellowish tinges, and would only become whiter when exposed to cleaning products. Before synthetic dies, there'd be no point in dying undergarments, because those would be designed to be washed often and hard, and natural dyes simply wouldn't survive that treatment for long; most of them just aren't that colourfast. Ergo, white (undyed) undergarments.

[@SmiggzYh]

I was so nervous about watching this when I saw "anti-hygeine" because I've seen so much about men not practicing proper hygiene, and as an autistic man it really bugs me, especially one who was previously unhoused and one who lives somewhere without a shower, meaning I have to daily wash in a sink, or run a bath (which feels inherently wasteful), I was nervous to watch yet another critique of something I am only so capable of influencing (during the winter, washing in the sink felt genuinely painful for me) But this was a wonderfully written, truly critical and informed look at our cultures attitude toward cleanliness Vs hygiene and I really appreciated watching it. Thank you for making it, I hope everyone sees it, and everyone understands.

[@justrenthx]

not sure what it says about me that this is your first video the algorithm served me but omg I adore you. your script writing is on. point. 10/10. no notes.

[@nadia1997]

At the end of this past summer I underwent a surgery to my left knee. For two months I was unable to walk or put any weight on my leg. And for about 1.5 months I was unable to get my leg wet at all. I remember not only feeling "unclean" because my bathing routine had to drastically change, but I also remember having felt unattractive, ugly, and undesirable. Not being to maintain my regular level of "cleanliness" changed my perception of myself greatly. I just felt icky even though not getting my fresh surgery wounds wet was the smartest and healthiest thing to do.

[@TooSickToDressVictorian]

Small correction: As far as I know linen shirts and undergarments do actually help keep the body clean, but they to have to be changed daily for that. That’s also why they owned so many of them, they were one of the few types of garments that were washed regularly. This isn’t to say that it justifies them using linen shirts as a justification to opress and colonize native and POCs.

[@Cinderbloom]

I will say, in regards to the white linens - those do actually help keep you clean. Linen is a naturally mildly abrasive material and anti-bacterial, helping clean you while you're wearing it. The cottons and plastics that are used right next to the body is actually a lot worse for our cleanliness and our skin (but cheaper for companies to make so more profitable).

[@joylox]

There was one time I wore polyester underwear, and never again! Natural fibres from plants are much better, and even if it's not linen (which I find too itchy), cotton isn't bad (as long as it's changed when wet since it holds moisture), and the rise in bamboo seems to be good too. There are some uses for polyester of course, like making waterproof things like boots and coats, but people don't often think about how much fabric impacts things.

[@cottencloud5811]

When my disability rly took off my first year of college, I remember skipping showering for days bc I couldnt stand long enough to shower w/o terrible pain. I've still barely admitted that to anyone, bc I didn't want to be seen as gross. And then my second year, I had access to a shower w/ a seat and it was like a MIRACLE to me - but I was still worried ppl would think it was gross for me to have to use the seat in a communal bathroom. Social pressure to not only be uber hygienic, but specifically to perform it in certain ways, always leaves out people and creates shame. I think the specificity of HOW hygiene is performed is even more damaging, because it does not consider that the natural variance in ppl will require variance in how common tasks are done (whether it be bc of ability, finances, housing status, culture, age, etc).

[@zo_mi_di]

Deadass you’re so brave for saying this. My physical problems have gotten better but I’d absolute have similar days where my legs and feet were just aching so badly

[@enerioffutt1881]

In regards to perfume, which I wear every day (and I don't shower every day), part of it is simply that it's become part of my getting ready in the morning and part of it is that I like to smell nice. Although I do worry sometimes, a little bit, about 'odor', mainly because I smoke and work with the public. Which is also why I wear body spray and not perfume.

[@ArturGlass.C]

I've got bad OCD and seriously your video helped a lot take me out my own head with all that stuff. So I wanted to say thanks and I hope you reach a lot of people because it's a more interesting topic than people can necessarily assume.

[@mariapaz6379]

i recently saw a video about "the nasty smell of bbls", a video compilation of people talking about the bbl smell and how many creators believe It's because these women don't wipe well. I took notice of a few things, this almost exclusively refers to black women, the criticism also comes from black people, it was often anecdotal evidence in spaces like the club or a party, it fully blamed the person who had the bbl, it felt permanent (as in no amount of cleaning can solve it). big asses have existed during centuries and people have found ways to clean them, but somehow increasing the size of the ass makes it impossible to wipe? i just don't buy it. It felt very much like a targeted dig towards a particular group of black women who enjoy their fuller figures. As it to say "it doesnt matter how pretty you are, you are nasty"

[@justkiddin84]

Yeah, it’s not at all like really obese folks who sometimes cannot get into a bath or shower (Amberlynn Reed is an example). I did see somewhere that the bbl smell may be a result of infection, though. Like the bad veneers put on over diseased teeth (😮).

[@hafeezahbashir2516]

​@@justkiddin84 Lord!

[@junolysses]

​@@justkiddin84don't understand the point of this comment. this is nothing like what op was talking about ...

[@chocomelo454]

​@@justkiddin84ok but most obese people are not amberlynn reid + I'm normal weight for my age and tubs are STILL small they can only really fit a baby.

[@chocomelo454]

​@@junolyssesI guess the only actually related point would be the "only thing I could find on why bbl smell is infection" part cuz at least with that it's offering an actual answer. And because procedures go wrong so often with plastic surgery that the idea of an infection happening isn't too off the mark. I mean apparently some surgeons have done labiaplasty on like, young teen girls and intentionally botched gender affirming surgeries on trans people. They don't seem to care much. Sorry if I sound like I'm centering myself.

[@misterantrobus]

Will say I’ve noticed this outlook that my trans and queer friends are perceived as dirty often. Sometimes it is even something I see being perpetuated in our own group unconsciously. I know a lot of trans men or transmasc ppl are seen as dirty because not only are we altering a “feminine body” and covering it with hair, a lot of times we are plus sized or start balding etc. Some transmen seem to even show disgust at others changes or their own because of our obsession with keeping these bodies hairless, skinny, luscious, and smooth. edit: A note on transwomen, I identify a lot of my trans fem friends with smell. Strong perfumes and lotions and hand sanitizer. Good smells, but strong flowery fruity scents. I think they feel an insane pressure to not smell bad or be caught being gross. People are not lenient to women. Let alone those who are transgender.

[@sereously]

Testosterone literally messes with the pH of vaginas which creates unpleasant odor but go off sis

[@passchen-fail3704]

Another stereotype is the result of bottom surgery. With a bad surgeon and care team, of which there are far too many, necrosis can take effect, and a lot of people think dilation is gross as well. I’ve also heard the term “rotpocket” online. We truly live in a society.

[@SparrowBranks]

If you're going to be a woman, you have to be willing to deal with the pressures we face. It's much easier to be a man. 👌

[@SparrowBranks]

​@@passchen-fail3704if people think dilation is gross, they should try being a real woman 👌

[@Sh12pen]

Bro acts like being any from of human being is easier than another ​@@SparrowBranks

[@Monoflower2]

I saw the thumbnail and thought to myself 'Oh yeah, it's April's Fools Day! Ha ha! What a quirky joke premise!' Then I realized 'Oh wait. It's March 31st. *Oh no.'*

[@SaltedRain]

what would the joke premise be?

[@chocomelo454]

​@@SaltedRainidk i guess just Shane? Just shane. Just how disgusting Shane is and hey guys Shane is also now a father and talks about his baby's poop on the podcast

[@GodheadNee]

unrelated to all the good work you did, i think this vampy outfit + blonde hair + décolletage situation is really pretty and looks good on you

[@minami3823]

I told an online group chat about eating an orange in the shower. It was going around a few years ago as being a freeing experience. They acted disgusted because the orange had "touched bathroom air" .🙄

[@NattiNekoMaid]

can I just say its odd to call wearing makeup clean when it is grimy and uncomfortable to me

[@capital_L283]

Yeah, I love makeup as a hobby but calling it clean when everyone who is even sort of into to makeup knows you have to wash it off when your done with it is silly

[@halkiierid4084]

I hate wearing makeup because of both dysphoria and sensory issues. I get that some people enjoy it, but having it on makes my skin crawl.

[@Anindeterminateamountofbees]

That’s so true!! I love makeup and wear it all the time but nothing about it is “clean” lmao

[@user-ov3yb9lk4o]

A lot of West** Asian practices are seen as unclean still today. Things like foot-washing in the sink (Wudu) or eating with the hands rather than utensils. A lot of it comes off as obvious racism in the lens of concerns about cleanliness and hygiene

[@josephinedykstra3383]

Wait- people find foot washing in the sink dirty? I ask as a white American who always did that as a kid because it was the most convenient way to clean dirty feet without taking a full bath. It's a SINK

[@SpecialBlanket]

@@josephinedykstra3383I do it too. I do it in my house like every day but I ask if I do it somewhere else and I try to watch it if I'm doing it in a public place. (I'm not talking about my feet after tromping around in some disgusting conditions, I'm talking about been-sitting-indoors feet bc I don't like dust in my bed)

[@in1624]

@@SpecialBlanket oh I always hate when all I have access to do Wudu is a public bathroom because anytime someone who doesn’t get it can walk in on me (especially if I’m doing my feet). It’s so weird for it to be seen as dirty when it really means my feet are more clean than most people’s are.

[@strawberrymilk174]

Do you mean to say "West" Asian instead of "East"?

[@user-ov3yb9lk4o]

@@strawberrymilk174 lol yes imma fix that

[@dia5131]

I used to be one of those people on a "hygiene high-horse" as I was depressed, but never depressed enough to (god forbid) stop brushing my teeth, washing my hair etc. It was only after experiencing a more crippling version of depression, I realised how privileged I was to even think that way. I always feel so proud of myself or friends when we feel motivated enough to take care of ourselves after neglecting hygiene for a while. However, I remember seeing a TikTok of someone who was really proud of themself for showering after months and months of not being able to, and the comments were FULL of people calling them disgusting and gross. Hygiene isn't always accessible to all, and I think we should all try to unlearn these preconceived ideas surrounding the topic, and try to uplift those who are struggling, not condemn them! Let's all try and be kinder to one another :D !

[@spuriusbrocoli4701]

Another shanspeare banger! The discussion abt how Christians saw a clean body & clean dress as hiding an impure soul is really interestjng to me. It's a classic example of how religious practices sometimes function as in-group/out-group signifiers, here being used as a way to differentiate Christians from the (presumably pagan) Roman upper classes. I've even seen queer historians argue that anti-sodomy laws, particularly those targeting sex between men, were another instance of reinforcing this Christian in-group vs upper-class Roman out-group. There's def a very interesting Nietzschian slave morality vs master morality analysis to be had in there.

[@Tyxaar]

Btw just here to say you look STUNNING in that gothic outfit fromthe beginning, it's really camp and flattering and just awesome!

[@rachel844]

Something I haven’t seen mentioned and also that no one will probably see, is lice. The misconception that nearly EVERYONE has that they’re attracted to dirty hair, or that if you have them you’re unclean. The reality is that they prefer clean hair, and I’ve had this conversation numerous times when I’ve described my experience with them. We have so many misconceptions about cleanliness and hygiene that I’ve began to wonder if the average person really knows anything about it at all.

[@dragons_of_magicgirl368]

Exactly, having constantly perfectly clean hair is begging for lice to nest there. They cant lay their eggs on hair that's oily

[@dotcom3015]

That’s misinformation as well. Lice are not selective about hair. They’re parasites that feed from your blood, and hair provides shelter and warmth. They spread more with kids because children share things and interact more closely to others

[@a.evelyn5498]

“Skin looking like skin” immediately stood out to me as well, as I think it probably did for many. I wish my skin “looked like skin” everyday all the time. I have clear skin as well; I’m fortunate genetically that way. Our skin is so vital to appearance, to cleanliness, to health, to beauty, to confidence. We wear foundation & concealer to hide our skin, to change its texture & even out its appearance. We smother the largest organ on our body with creams & oils & fragrances, altering it in every which way possible, not only the way it appears but also feels, smells, even tastes. We seek to reduce bloating & redness, as well as the size of our pores. Glass skin does not “look like skin.” The “clean girl look” is the attempt for naturalness that exceeds, if not defies, that very naturalness.

[@emisformaker]

Another autistic chiming in: I was a full-grown adult when I realized that nobody had ever taught me, step by step, how to wash myself. I guess I was supposed to pay attention to how I got washed when I was small enough for that to happen, and just keep repeating that, but nothing stuck. It probably doesn't help that all the grown-ups who raised me are also neurodivergent (if undiagnosed). Before I had a set of steps, the act of a full-on 'shower' seemed like a bit of a waste, since I just did a kind of all-over swipe with soap instead of a proper wash. I'd just as soon wash my hair under the tap and be done with it, since I hate being wet. Once I had the steps, it made more sense. There is a system and a routine, and something is being accomplished. Another thing they didn't bother covering in so-called health class.

[@gwennorthcutt421]

i was in the same boat!! i didnt even know i was doing anything wrong bc we never talked about it. my parents arent ND and it happened to me still. im very proud of myself for the process i made when i first learned.

[@artsy_angie355]

I felt that!! I remember when I was in middle school, mom would get on to me cuz i won’t properly wash shampoo or conditioner out of my hair and it was worse cuz I have thick hair. But my mom never taught me to how to know if I still have shampoo in hair. Also they would be times where I get so focused on washing my hair properly, that I would forget scrub body wash or shave my pits. I really wish they went over this stuff in health class or something.

[@comradepeggyhill9085]

same. i don’t think im autistic and i was washed as a very young kid, but getting into 5th grade and older i was washing myself once a week on sunday (as i had been taught by my parents was enough) and didn’t realize that my hair was ‘greasy’ or i was dirty. my mother was raised in a not great environment so she was unbothered by it and i assume was raised the same way and my dad washed my face in the morning but didn’t seem to mind much else. idk i was told by a girl who i considered mean but was mainly just oblivious and dense that my hair was greasy and i didn’t understand it.

[@antisocialmanic]

That would have been me if my mom hadn't taken the time to set by step tell me and give me a laminated list. I need instructions!

[@antisocialmanic]

​@@artsy_angie355same! My and my mom have totally different hair textures so what worked for her didn't work for me. But I didn't have anyone else to tell me what I was supposed to do. I think someone actually told me good advice for my Hair was last year. I am 16

[@natalieburns]

I love the lady they said we don’t need to match her skincare routine or expectations. That was so real.