Beware the Spider God! The Feaster From Beyond Explored on Lorebeards w/ Andy & Sotek

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[@ethanhunstiger4868]

Two things. One, I would say that there is a significant difference between a god of spiders and a spider god. The first is a god whose domain includes spiders, the second is a spider that is a god. Two, I am very curious about the thriving forest goblin textile industry.

[@danielnewman8242]

The industrious, silk producing, spider worshipping forest goblins probably live in Cathay

[@zodrickzheioh7318]

I'm from the North East America, Sotek Pronounced Appalachia correctly. Whoever told Andy the other way was trolling him.

[@Garret007]

I really hope this god gets more lore in the future, obviously, he doesn't have as much impact as other gods in whats happening. But this god just sounds so cool and creepy!

[@skepsisrollins1711]

one of the things i like about AoS is how spider worshipping gitz are prone to arachnid mutations. The leaders often look more spider than gob. Spiders just rule

[@kyuken893]

There's probably some opportunity to do a classic GW "inspiration" and have a pseudo-Ungoliant situation where the spider god ate some section of the worldroots. On a tangent, there appear to be a lot of comments that are either filled with whataboutisms or claiming: "its escapism". That either don't realize or are deliberately ignoring the fact that Andy's comments about making non-human cultures their own distinct and fantastical thing (eg feathers through flesh), instead of a shallow derivative of human cultures (stereotypical headresses) *is* part of making it more effective escapism. Because doing so removes any question that there might be real world implications.

[@kanesideram7651]

I’ve always believed there was a link between the Spider God and the Sleeper Below from Gotrek and Felix, Orcslayer. The whole Arachnid fallen empire who fell to chaos - it always felt like they were the ones who originally created the Spider God, and the Forest Goblins simply brought him out of retirement.

[@jameschristophercirujano6650]

Time for them to copy from Warcraft. Especially if the War Within would be a hit. It's a pretty basic concept anyway, just need to change the architecture, and the shapes of the spiders just need to be different.

[@0815UserII]

Too bad I missed the stream, I would have asked if the Spieder God has a Clown Alter Ego. It might be worth pointing out that some Goblins being eaten (or played with) while they try to move into an Arachnarok's lair probably wouldn't be seen as anything noteworthy by the Goblin tribe. They are completely used to the idea that living with something that's bigger and stronger than (or even just about as big and strong as) is an arrangement that involves them being a potential source of food or even just amusement for whatever they are cohabitating with, be it Orcs, Squigs, other Goblins and now Arachnaroks.

[@chowchow1319]

Hey ! Always loved the format and looking forward each week to the stream. But I got to agree with some of the others that mention that the superchats are starting to take too much space. It feels like the actual chat about the subject that is chosen is taking a back seat. I understand that you do this to get money and that the superchats are probably the best source of income but at some point most of us are watching to learn more about the lore today's subject and not to see you have hundreds of small chats with random people.

[@lachlanbold8319]

My theory on why goblins are scared of elves is that they think elves ARE goblins who got some kind of disease that made them become strange.

[@blazindragon1833]

Hmm it would be cool to hear what you guys think about Khakkekk the Goblin Blood God worshiped by the Bloodied Nose Tribe with Ratscrode Boggobbler.

[@hangebza6625]

I love the part of Wood Elves working with Achnaroks and being kinda close with the Spider God. Same for other woodland factions . Suddendly Drycha and Mother Ostayanka having access to spiders makes a lot of sense.

[@rknowling]

Sorry I missed this live, but great to see Jef, Hugh, Jake, EJ, Quintus and the rest in chat!

[@benfisher961]

1:43:30 clearly the butterfly men live in Lumbria

[@ethancox1826]

That sounds really cool actually

[@Todesnuss]

The thought of a parasitic subspecies of greenskin that works like cordyceps is genuinely wild. Why wouldn't the spores of all those gobbos these spiders ate eventually adapt to grow inside their central nervous system? It's like Grom the paunch in reverse, about as gobbo as it gets. Though infectious greenskin spores is a big can of implications to crack.

[@anthonyhartmann9913]

Enjoyed the chat! Only gripe is that your volumes are on two different levels. So I turn the volume up when you are talking then get a startled blast of Dawi ☠

[@x0lopossum]

1:06:30 I see this as the realm of Chaos, but it's not completely chaotic. All the gods, daemons, and ethereal entities from every religion in Warhammer manifest and live there. And I see it as another dimension separate from the material realm where things such as men, elves, dwarves, animals, etc live. This dimension is completely different from our material world, they operate on a set of different rules than us and they aren't made up off matter like we are. Things from the realm of Chaos are made out of what we call magic. And magic is energy from the realm of chaos seeping into the material realm. 1:15:30 Elves, and especially wood elves don't like spiders and arachnarock spiders. This is proof that the Spider god forest goblins worship is evil.

[@rknowling]

"convulsive rhythms because they're high as kites" I've heard that in Southern Italy they used to dance the "tarantella", a particularly vigorous dance. When tarantulas were discovered, they were named after this dance as it was thought the venom would make one convulse in motions akin to the tarantella.

[@Mark-y1n8g]

Hey guys, long time viewer. I really love the banter and I'm really excited for all of your success with getting this show to the next level, but may I make a suggestion? I understand getting all those superchats pays the bills, but it's extremely disruptive to the flow of your show to the point the time you guys spend on talking about the actual lore subject has gotten way shorter and, quite frankly, a little more shallow than it used to be. Again, I understand you guys love the improvisation of the superchat subject discussions, but could you at the very least time stamp the parts your talking about the actual lore? I don't want to sit through 2.5 hours of your superchats to hear 30 minutes of the actual subject matter. Thanks and good luck with your future streams!

[@tiblam1019]

made a super chat about the idea that spider controling the population of goblin could be a possibility for the lack of a large waaagh of forest goblin ( yeah I,m really proud to get a "damn you slightly" from Andy) . Then I see a twitch cheer saying "Forest goblins starting Waagh to clear the path for migrating arachnarock". And yeah that make sense but what about my previous comment about their numbers? well ,What if arachnarock before their migration start by letting the green skin population increase? that way they got a better defence for their travel outside of their usual territory. They also get more emergency rations/snack for the trip ,a Trip that will need a lot of energy so loot of calorie consumption. And that also explain the start of the waagh at that time of migration!

[@josecoronadonieto6911]

I belief that every god being represented with an animal includes Sigmar, as his representation is a human, the real exception here is the Lady of the Lake

[@jackruby6696]

2:03:09 oh Hammond you made me literally LOL

[@nagashtheundyingking4404]

as someone who finds spiders super interesting and love them in fantasy settings i want more spiders in warhammer so bad even outside greenskins. also i mean as goblins and orks are symbiotic with each other even tho they are very differeny maybe that could be why they functions so well with other animals and creatures.

[@dagobfather9241]

Praying they give us the forest goblins for the new dlc that was announced

[@chrisc359]

I think it is widely known, but still interesting. There are real world tarantula species that have a symbiotic relationship with frogs. The tiny frogs are safe in the den of the spider and feast on the parasites that would threaten the spider eggs. I do not think this is too relevant, but a positive coexistence of goblin and spider seems not too crazy. It does show that spiders can coexist with others to profit from the coexistence, but for all we know, they cannot bond with people on an individual, or personality level. Their brain works so fundamentally different and is not setup to experience emotions the way we do. They would be very difficult to "understand" or predict beyond rather primal reactions. What I think is interesting to thinking about is what level of conscience you want to apply to the spiders, or alternatively how do goblins, through motion in trance, or chemicals after poisoning themselves can influence them. It would fundamentally change how an interaction, or conflict, could possibly be resolved in a world where magic exists.

[@SwopetheDope]

I Love Savage Orcs and Forest Goblins! If I'd had to choose, I'd Try and make them like the Picts, Celts, as well as like Tribal people in general... I don't understand why people get so upset about it....

[@emmahagens]

2:17:00 spider artillery that fires spiderwebs from far away and just slow down enemies

[@disappointedviewerh7303]

If zoats were made by the old ones do you think they were the intermediaries to teach the elves magic? they teach life magic but maybe there other types of zoat that originally taught them the other magic?

[@stefvanroey8191]

That would make sense since the elves would not have made direct contact with the old ones

[@patrickmcginty3234]

Is it possible for a beast wizard to form a connection with spiders?

[@rknowling]

LawHammer THIRD CAMPAIGN!!!!!!!!! Sigmar's Beard! Heard here first!

[@x0lopossum]

1:55:50 Mount Aracknoss vs the Black Pit

[@shanechudzik8554]

Do we get any information on what the Beastmen think of the aracnoroks?

[@Varahkas]

Man alive, surely this isn't a topic you needed 3 hours to cover.

[@grim9657]

Im not seeing a problem with the raindance, perhaps your being to sensetive

[@stefvanroey8191]

Who sais they are being "too sensitive" instead of just generally respectful + competent writers?

[@grim9657]

@@stefvanroey8191 it's a dance who cares.

[@stefvanroey8191]

@@grim9657 i mean why do you care so much as to call other people sensitive for discussing it?

[@grim9657]

It's a game if an orc does a rain dance that's not racist, it's a dance it's not racist. Calling something savage isn't racist. If your mind goes straight to racism because a fictional character is a savage and does a rain dance you are being to sensative

[@stefvanroey8191]

@@grim9657 i mean i think they literally stated that they dont think this was meant to be racist, it is just an unfortunate depiction in combination with the language used.

[@Juliusstarcraft]

Edit2: Andy, if you wanna be all PC about stuff, the term 'Indian' is no longer in vogue, the more modern 'correct' term would be native american, indigenous, first people's, etc Edit: I don't want to seem like i'm unhappy with the content or annoyed with Andy for having an opinion just that he is not consistent with when he says 'appropriation' exists and therefore is a problem. Why do a cultural appropriation trigger warning here but not for basically anything else? All of warhammer, as you have both mentioned many times, is taking the real world's cultures and myths and smashing them together and turning it up to 11. I don't recall trigger warnings for Norsca, a clear rip off of the Norse and one in which they are often 1 dimensional bad guys. Where was the warning for the overtly cartoonish French cultural appropriation for Bretonnia? To offer a brief summary, the Bretonnia's of 3rd edition were described as pre-revolutionary France, indolent and terrible nobles, wigs, and powdered faces. Stereotypes? Yes, but no warning because who cares about the French apparently? I also remember those episodes with at least a few over the top accents + the deep lore conversations and thought provoking points that this series is known for. Where was the warning about how warhammer Dwarfs are rip-offs of Tolkien's Dwarves and how those Dwarves were based on Semitic peoples, including more than a couple stereotypes that would be considered 'problematic' to borrow the terminology. Most interestingly, given the one giving the trigger warning, Kislev. Kislev, as we presently conceive of it, is in a large part thanks to Andy, and he and the rest of the team did a marvelous job. Now Kislev is a blatant and so painfully reductionist almost meme of Eastern Europe but again we were provided no warning for that and nor should there be because that is warhammer being warhammer. For context, watch the first few minutes of the Hag episode from late last year, in that episode Andy describes the Gospodar side of Kislev which is again a clear allegory for the Slavic cultures of Eastern Europe and the nomadic cultures of the Eastern Steppe for the Ungols. I get it, this is a pretty progressive show, the issue is not the politics, nor even that the politics is part of the show. The issue is being inconsistent with how the politics insert itself in the show. Want to say cultural appropriation is bad, sure have at it if that is your stance, just be intellectually consistent with it and flag it in all instances, otherwise please keep it out of the escapism that warhammer should be. Love the content just wanted to give my 2 cents about the inconsistencies that I and many others in the comments have noticed. Good episode and had lots of fun learning about the topic.

[@jameschristophercirujano6650]

Besides, every culture had rain dances at some point, heck. Mine had them till recently, which involved a lot of burning, then some 'shaman' does some either weird dance, or prayer, most likely an amalgam of both. It is savage, but we all were at one point. Europe just advanced earlier than us, it is what it is.

[@jameschristophercirujano6650]

Did you delete your reply, or did you get censored? From what little I read from youtube notifications, not really, lol. Asians in general are very racists to each other, we brush mild things like 'appropriating' our culture pretty easily. But that's my generation, the later gen Z are pretty fragile, and have been influenced by American politics. My point previously is more like to highlight that there isn't really a difference between us Jungle Asians, the Jungle Americas, and Jungle Africans, but skin color, but at least for us Jungle Asians, we don't care much about PC things, as long as it's not an overly racist caricature of us. Heck, it's nice to be acknowledged that we exist for a change, lol.

[@tiblam1019]

like some others here , you're trying to justify one case of bad cultural appropriation with other exemple who are also bad even if not as much. It's not even the cultural appropriatio it's the lazy writing. None of them should be like that. And I'm french and yes a cringe a lot about the bretonnians, but you know what at least most of it is about honor beingthe good guy etc. That's not the same with the orc. Even norsca have a better treatement than the orcs after all they are human and an old tribe of the pre empire. And I still know a few finland people who cringe about it... It's not politics, it's writing complex characters worthy of interest and not just lazy rip-off based on a old almost racist stereotype. And kislev? yeah it's a country with complex internal issue , but still they're the good guy. And I do remember Andy and Sotek saying the same thing , that some of it was lazy and it could be better and that's why just calling a character babayaga was just bad writing... strange you don't remember that? Be consistent? they are!!! apparently even for 30 years for Andy. Try to do the same! and stop thinking of everything as politics but just trying to be respectful of your material and inspiration

[@jameschristophercirujano6650]

@@tiblam1019 KZbin heavily censors comments. It's a racist stereotype, but at one point all of humanity has been savage at some point, like in my country we had a history of cannibals, pirates, generic jungle kingdoms, and man hunting tribes, just in the couple of centuries. However, you can just as easily see the same in other neighboring countries of SEA, in Africa, and in the Americas, is it cultural appropriation if it's just savagery? To me, the worse aspects of it, are not culture, but rather a hurdle that we had to move past, we're not rain dancing or anything nowadays, and we don't consider it as part of our culture since such practice is obsolete. It's insulting to think that it's cultural appropriation, especially in the case of the Orks, coz we're now in the modern world after all. We have Skyscrapers too, lol.

[@TheSIngemeister]

@@jameschristophercirujano6650 But savage orcs are just 'savage'. There's nothing else to them. They are monstrous, idiotic brutes who live only to fight and kill, and cannot develop past that point. And when the only way that Africans or Native Americans are really shown in a setting is as that, especially with the history of Europeans treating Africans and Native Americans as less than human, you gotta admit its rather insulting. As Andy pointed out, even the Lizardmen manage to avoid the trap by being interesting, complex, cool, and not just savage monstrous brutes.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

Is it strange that when it comes to Warhammer cultural appropiation, I only hear people offended on behalf of other cultures and not people from the cultures themselves?

[@thomasweale]

I think just large majority of the fan base are white dudes, I’m sure there is a mix but not a massive majority. Cultural appropriation often people outside the minority are offended when the culture themselves are not; but I think in this case it’s fair to assume they’d be offended, just look at the Pygme.

[@stefvanroey8191]

Its not that they are offended, its that they could have been written better and with more depth

[@recreantraze5248]

Could you guys be more cringe in your look at me ive been virtue signaling since the 90s on how woke i am. Jeez the guy you described was so innocently excited and thrilled about the savage orcs being brought into the setting. And was in No way being racist or demeaning about anything. But here comes andy in his white guilt savor self seeing everything through race and what ever other identity politics lense he can apply to virtue signal on how not rascist he is. When he literally said he was the only one in the room who implied these fun fantasy concepts for a made up game to actual representation because he is the racist and can only see things through race and sex.

[@Lightzy1]

Savage Orks are awesome. The rain dances are cool as hell. People who use such idiot phrases as "cultural appropriation" with a straight face, are not :) That said, if savage orks were inspired by native american tribes, then it's a huge 'whitewashing' of the ACTUAL savage barbarity of those tribes, taking only what could be considered 'cool', 'mystical', and 'unique' rain-dance themes while leaving out all the actual subhuman barbarism and mass child sacrifice to fill pools of blood for serpent gods themes. You could, in fact, call it an act of cultural appreciation :)

[@Manisteefly]

Yea that was incredibly cringe. Then insulting the entire Appalachian region which is an incredibly diverse and beautiful region that spans a thousand miles of the US in the next segment. I’ve been a fan for a long time but this is awful.

[@zerk813]

@@Manisteeflyexactly… we can’t make a cultural evil similar in some small part to a living one. But then Appalachian are fucking crazy people. Who the fuck knows what those people do.

[@mbw370]

So the forest goblins are theoretically smart enough to create tapestries from spider silks but not able to create a headdress similar to native american Indians? What, how does that make sense? Why is the world so sensitive? I bet if you'd ask any Native American about it they'd love that they're being represented at all. The fact that it's this way doesn't make a difference. They were barbarous and savage at the time. They were warring with each other for hundreds if not thousands of years before the white man came, indiscriminately wiping out tribes of each other. But no these days it's white man bad, everything they created bad. Why are people virtue signaling so hard, if anyone has to talk 10 mins about something related to 'culture appropriation', maybe there's a you issue there instead of what your discussing.

[@Mahgackoh]

andy is so lame with the "problematic" stuff. just pretend that savage orcs are based of celts and germanics if you have such a problem with them being based on native americans

[@walkrvc]

The main thing that I think Andy’s problem with is that they are closely basing a warhammer race off of a real culture and that race is monstrous which can easily lead people to look back at the original culture it was based off of as also monstrous. We humans are not nearly as smart as we think we are sometimes nor as tolerant as we say we should be. We always find ways to dehumanize each other and that idea is the abhorrence that I think Andy feels in this representation.

[@tiblam1019]

the culture you based it of is not the problem . It's the way to do it , the why and how you use it. If you used my heritage to make savage and mostly dumb monster and that's it.... yeah that's come as a lot of tone deaf at best. For a writer, being careful with your inspiration is a basic and there is nothing lame with caring about the other people. And making the savage orc look like celt and german would just push the insult toward them. That's not better... that's just missing the point completly. As Andy said it's much better to create thing with their own identities ,distinct from real world even if lightly inspired by it. And at least give them a good part. And be honest, the savage orc are not worse without the indian feather style, some would say even better. You don't even care so why are you trying to act like 14 year old troll ?

[@jarlwilliam9932]

Yeah it’s dumb, who cares savage orcs are savage orcs not Native Americans, many fantasy stories and fandoms would be a lot better if people stopped trying to make everything an analogy. Savage orcs and forest goblins being based on native Americans is perfectly fine when you have Norscans, and Kurgans who are literally savage monsters themselves, for all that is good they didn’t even change the name of the Kurgans, just took them right out of the pages of history and plopped them into the Warhammer world, culture name and all.

[@Juliusstarcraft]

Yah and to counter Walkrvc's point, the Dark elves are consciously the bad guys and are also very clearly based on the American culture. Going off in either direction trying to connect warhammer, a child's game, to modern identify politics is just lame and asking for trouble from either direction. Let the escapism be escapism.

[@Lightzy1]

​@@walkrvc Except native american culture WAS one of the most barbaric and savage you could ever imagine. Cannibalism, child sacrifice by the barrel loads, constant and never ending tribal warfare, slavery, mass ritual sacrifice of prisoners, torturing parents in front of their children and vice versa before enslaving them etc. It was the modern definition of barbaric savagery. We should only be thankful the Europeans got there and put an end to that. But that nonwithstanding, it's also incredibly cool an inspiration for a fantasy culture. In fact, using them as an inspiration for Savage Orks, if anything, whitewashes their savagery to a great extent, painting it over with ideas of "mysticism" etc.

[@morathi9956]

The beginning is so cringe…