The Early Imperial Armour Books - Codex Compliant

[@henderson2394]

I love an ork getting all philosophical just before he explodes. I like to think they all have a moment of clarity except in orkspeak.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

"Bloody 'ell, so dats what da meanin' ov life iz..."

[@AvaniDK]

"To be or nots to be: that'z the question... If itz better to be 'ard enough to suffer da dakka of bad luck or to waaaagh! 'gainst a 'uge lot of trouble..." - Dying words of the Ork Warboss 'Amlet

[@kimarous]

"No humie o' womie born may 'arm Mork'beff."

[@AvaniDK]

I WAAAGH, datz why I iz

[@soupalex]

@@AvaniDK -Deffkart, approximately 420.M41

[@ds_has_several_cats]

Canonically, the STD for the Lightning was discovered on Gonoria.

[@corbiecrow9738]

I don't care if your joking it's now cannon

[@krulla]

As a tank nerd, since you asked: The stats for the Leman Russ Vanquisher at 4:13 are... surprisingly reasonable. They are about what you'd expect for a second world war heavy tank, other than all the sci-fi guns, of course. What is interesting is that this points towards the general level of technology in the 40k universe being stagnated somewhere around the mid-20th century, other than things like cybernetics and warp drives. We rarely have direct comparisons with real life technology in 40k lore, since the performance of things like lascannons and plasma cannons compared to real life equivalents is impossible to compare; But here we have some very concrete statistics, i.e top speed and weight. The Leman Russ is apparently 64 tons, and has a top speed of 30kph on roads, and 18kph off roads; Which means that the Russ' engine is really quite weak. For a real life comparison, the German Tiger II heavy tank was about the same weight at 68.5 tons, but had a top speed of 41.5km/h on roads and 15-20km/h offroad, so substantially more spry than the Vanquisher - And this is a tank that was first manufactured in 1943. The engine on the Leman Russ would have been underperforming by 1943 standards. Since the Leman Russ is competitive on the battlefields of the 41st millenium, this suggests that the various 40k armies would be wildly outclassed my modern militaries. Which I guess isn't surprising, considering that "run at them with swords" is a valid tactic in the 41st millennium.

[@natetwehues2428]

Vastly outclassed until the 40K armies start calling down orbital bombardment.

[@busterbackster1]

GW was started by a bunch of history nerds so im not surprised they were pretty decent with those stats

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

you're forgetting we don't know the material strength of what 40k tanks are made out of, 200mm thick armour but of what? considering a russ is lifted several meters into the air by an explosion and then carries on unscathed in one book i would say they are significantly tougher than modern tanks. you can't judge the whole tank purely off speed. you're also forgetting speed isn't just based on engine power and power to weight ratios but also suspension systems, gearboxes and speed limiters. the fact a tank with no syspension system is able to go 18kph offroad (and 36kph offroad for the turretless russ variants, which is about as fast as a T-72 [despite no suspension and being heavier by 12 tons]) implies it actually has quite a high engine power, and even if its speed was limited it could still have a powerful engine with good acceleration (which we don't know) which is more important for tactical combat anyway, and strategic speed is based more on how often a tank needs to be repaired and refueled and how long it takes to do this. the abrams despite being faster then the Bradley has a significantly slower strategic speed due to its thirsty engine, and the T-72 despite being slower than the T-64 and T-80 on paper had a faster strategic speed in tests due to being more reliable and more fuel-efficient. you're also forgetting fording depth, the russ has almost double the fording depth of modern tanks, and the fact russ engines can run on anything that burns, if their engines are infact 'underpowered' arguably this was chosen in order to reduce logistical burdon. you simply can't base the effectiveness of a tank purely off its speed is what i am saying. that said it would be more impressive and realistic if they had stats closer to or exceeding modern tanks. 40k tanks are supposed to be STCs from the dark age of technology [humanitie's golden age] it makes no sense that their stuff should be inferior to ours in anyway, equal maybe [assuming a technological bottle neck is reached, but not inferior] also you're forgetting the Salamander has a speed of 78kph off road, thats insane! especially for a syspensionless vehicle. the abrams only has 48kph off road and its one of the fastest inservice vehicles off road today. its got the roadspeed of a ripsaw onroad and is about 30% faster offroad, all this with 150mm of mystery armour! although its fording depth is similar to current tanks.

[@thorgeachmus27]

One thing to add is that just stating the armor thickness dosen't really say much, as there is the actual thickness and the effective thickness of a plate, which is the resistance it offers against different types of ammo. The effective thickness of an armor plate can change depending on the ammo it is hit by, either kinetic rounds (a big bullet) or chemical rounds (explosives). I don't know what imperial tanks are made from, but modern tank plates are largely made from composites (basically a sandwich of different materials such as ceramic) which are way larger than just a metal slab, but a lot lighter and they offer more protection.

[@kyokyodisaster4842]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 So, what your saying is that while the Leman Rus tanks for example might not exactly be the fastest, they seemingly are remarkably durable and resilient machines with a high ability to withstand damage and keep trucking despite it?

[@theginger7148]

11:55 “Dragon Wagon” was actually the name of a US Army tank transporter in WWII. For the Trojan, this kind of fits and is actually a pretty neat reference. Assuming it’s not referring to another dragon-associated item of course

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

It probably was. More than half the Space Marine Legions got at least one of their names from US military units, like the “Dragon Warriors” (the Salamander’s early Great Crusade name) being a marine logistical battalion and the name “Great Crusade” being the evil General Patton’s personal title for WW2.

[@Tsotha]

@@dashiellgillingham4579 I did not know that, but it checks out with so many of GW's writers being military history nerds.

[@justarandomname420]

Last time I was this early, Squats were still mining the cores of planets.

[@vaniellys]

12:20 The photos of minis with an edited background and effects to make it look realistic gives a Thunderbirds vibe that I really love.

[@xenon3990]

I remember back before I was into WH40k that the nearest FLGS had a „Cadian Armour Column“ fully painted on display in the miniature section. I didn’t know what it or 40k was but I loved looking at it, especially since they nailed the painting and the power loader looked damn cool (I was big into the Alien franchise back then so i usually went down there to buy some of the Kenner Xenomorph toys they had on rerelease) and was right up my alley. Glad I got into 40k

[@hannas865]

The fluff about the tanks size, weight and equipment is all pretty typical of late ww2 production tanks, the only oddity is how light it is given the armour thickness, but I guess sci fi space magic go brrr?

[@hannas865]

Actually on checking, the weight is pretty accurate, though the 200mm armour is a bit absurd, also taking in the size would make them bigger, heavier and more heavily armoured than a tiger tank, a heavy tank by ww2 standards

[@krulla]

The maximum armor thickness on the Tiger II was 185mm, and that was 68.5 tons. Max 200mm at 64 tons means for the Russ is comparable, so not unreasonable.

[@hannas865]

@@krulla yeah, just for something that seemed more equivalent to a medium tank its a bit heavy hahaha

[@biggusdickus841]

You have to take into account things like dimensions too, even post WW2 heavy tanks would look like toy cars when compared to grandma's iron Leman Russes, armor wise it also kinda silly that tanks made of just rolled armor plates can sustain hits from energy weapons and the like.

[@KillerOrca]

@@biggusdickus841 Blessed by the restraining power of the Mechanicus! XD. They are kinda slow though...

[@daedalus6796]

I would appreciate a full video on the origins of the "Dragan Wagan"

[@footrot17]

I believe it was created after finding an STD on some planet, somewhere.

[@R0ssMM]

@@footrot17 I assume you're referring to Gonoria Prime?

[@Aliexster]

I'd wager that it's a miss spelling on account of a barely literate crew member, mainly that Dragan should have an I instead of a second A.

[@Chivaltic]

The real world Dragan Wagan or Dragon Wagon is an US made M25 Tank Transporter from 1941 that saw service during WW2.

[@kharadron3561]

The forgeworld resin dreadnoughts make me unreasonably happy

[@lonecolamarine]

Dat leviathan though 😔👌

[@weldonwin]

So is no one going to talk about how the Scout Salamander was the ride of choice for Caiaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium... Mostly because they were really fast for when it was time to Run the F*ck Away

[@ArchArturo]

... Hero of the Imperium.

[@reecedignan8365]

Also, I am so disappointed that A. They have been moved to “Legends” because besides being a well known imperial vehicle and a very good one on the tabletop, it just takes away more choice for us guard players while a certain couple factions are continuing to gain more and more while the rest of us get Legendised or forgot. B. They never gave the salamander a transport capacity. In both the Cain books and Gaunt books (as well as several others) salamanders were quite well know for being good scout/team transports. I’m sad they never game them that 6 troop capacity so they could carry command squads or special weapon teams and such which would be accurate to canon.

[@KillerOrca]

@@reecedignan8365 My home games always gave em that. Mostly cause it didnt really swing the balance of battle either which way.

[@khartog01]

And the prophet spoke, "Frak this!"

[@Mrkabrat]

"It's not running away! It's 'strategically retreating'!" Ciaphas Cain

[@norksnorks]

I'm writing " my other car is a Dragan Wagan" on my Imperial Knight ASAP

[@rodneykelly8768]

04:08 The information helps make the tanks seem more realistic, but it fails with scale measurements. The Leman Russ’ battle cannon barrel is listed as having a 120mm bore. That would make the barrel the size of a soda straw, and not the sewer pipe we see on the model.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

GW has said their tanks are not to scale for ages, and warhammer (be it 40k or fantasy) has had oversized weapons for ages

[@steel_valkyrie3022]

Also, if you look at any of the cutaways, official or unofficial, you see how laughably nonsensical they are, really smol engines, no transmission, fuggin' chain drives, it's glorious.

[@nakenmil]

There's all sorts of scale issues whenever GW tries to nail down numbers. I can't remember exactly which sources it was, but I remember them touting a global campaign with many deployed soldiers, but upon review, the entire planet's fighting force was smaller than the deployed soldiers during the Battle of Stalingrad. Which was immensely huge, of course, but still very much not a global campaign in itself.

[@imperialus1]

Soo... I'm no tank expert but according to Wikipedia at least (and a lot of tab switching), the Leman Russ Vanquisher is basically a very slow Abrams that has been oddly stretched and has terrible armour. Compare the Vanquisher at the timestamp to the Abrams: Gun: 120mm caliber, 6.6m length. Tank: Weight 65 tons, 3.66m width, 7.93m length, 2.44 m hight. Max Speed offroad 40kph, on road 67kph. Front armour est. at 1300mm vs HEAT rounds. The Abrams also carries twice as many rounds for its main gun. It is kinda funny that a tank that was contemporary to the development of Imperial Armour was objectively better in nearly every possible way than a high end limited production tank available to the Imperial Guard... I guess you're really paying for that las-cannon. *edit* further poking about Wikipedia actually puts the Vanquisher pretty much on par with the wheraboo waifu Tiger 2 which had 189mm of frontal armour and similar speed. Oof... Wouldn't even need the modern American army, ze Germans could have probably taken on an Imperial Guard regiment with pretty good odds. I think @enthused norseman has it right. GW and scale just don't mix. They portray everything as these massive epic space blastey blast fests where planets get wiped out by orbital bombardment from dozens of spaceships spaceships with tens of thousands of crew as millions of soldiers battle a demon invasion on the ground underneath. A society where hundreds of billions live in a single city, who can starve to death because a ministratum drone forgot to carry a one on a food shipment order that would be leaving fifty years from the time he wrote it down just because everything is so HUGE!!... and then the mighty Ultramarines can field... 1000 doods, and a late war German Wunderweapon can take on an elite Imperial tank. At the hight of ridiculousness I even remember the Imperial Guard codex saying that the standard size of an Imperial Guard regiment is 100,000 men. That's nothing, Hell the Soviets put 1.1 million boots on the ground in Stalingrad. One battle. Sure, it was a big eff off battle, but still. The modern American Army has just under half a million personnel and the best these hive worlds can do is 100,000?

[@steel_valkyrie3022]

@@imperialus1 again, it depends on which source you use. Leman russes also have armour of different materials than conventional modern tanks, are easier to maintain, for the most part, and can run on almost anything that burns, which we still haven't managed to do well in the modern world (see Centurion tanks for an example). Leman russes also carry Bolters, which are also more advanced then weapons we already have, and as far as the battle cannon goes, they have an autoloader as well, and for anti-infantry, you can't get much better than a massive ol' HE shell. Are they backwards in other ways, though? Hell yeah.

[@youdontneedtoseehisidentif4939]

4:08 I presume for a lot of Imperial vehicles for "Ground Clearance" it just says "No"..? :)

[@Ninjat126]

Ground Clearance: we have to have a serf with a shovel walk in front of the transport because the guy in the shop says adjusting the suspension would be a literal act of blasphemy

[@ToaArcan]

"Man cannot live on Imperial vehicles alone" Geedubs: I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that.

[@davidshea6272]

I will say, to give the curse lord GW its credit, they are a lot better these days.

[@alexcass7855]

2:21 I mean it could be the other pronunciation if the Chaos forces they were fighting were followers of Nurgle...

[@stunitech]

I'm sure this gets said on the comments in here all the time, but it is an absolute crime against the God-Emperor that Snipe & Wib don't have more subscribers. The content is interesting,informative, well presented and done with humour and enthusiasm. Along with Tabletop Tactics it's my favourite 40k channel. I'm old enough to remember 90% of these old books first hand and it's a joy to see them get airtime for the younger hobbyists

[@KabinMiniatures]

That Lightning origin tangent you went on... pure gold!

[@ironbomb6753]

Yup! Worth a second and third viewing 👌

[@99redpontoons]

If this is helpful for any other grogs like me who like to play old editions, you can use trigonometry to figure out precise ranges for 'guess' range weapons like artillery. You were in fact permitted to measure the distance of your enemy's units from their table edges if you want before turn 1 actually starts, and if you did this along with keeping track of where their models moved, and kept track of the position of your own models relative to each other & the table edges, it wasn't too difficult to calculate arty ranges to land the shots exactly where you need them. All perfectly legal too. Just get them to tell you how far they're moving each model, and keep a mental track of how far you move your own. A notepad to doodle a reference on turn-by-turn and calculate on helps. Definitely will give you sour looks from the other side of the table however! You can also legally use your fingers to measure, just nothing which has been marked in some way which would suggest it being a measuring implement - including marking your fingers with inch lines. Instead, practice spacing your fingers and thumb out to an inch's width apart and compare your estimate to a ruler, until you know the precise amount of space to leave between your index finger and thumb to make exactly one inch between them. Do this with either hand, and lay your 'gaps' end over end until you reach your target, then add or subtract a little to get smack in the middle of their base. This one is also considered a really sly move but it was legal for guessing ranges, because there's no markings on your fingers or any object involved which could be used as a reference or improvised measuring device.

[@Eruidraith]

Supposedly there was a legendary “all sentinel power lifter” list that was shockingly okay back in the day

[@BatteredWalrus]

Not gonna lie I much prefer the old Lightning model, reminds me of the double barrel shotgun nose of the IL-40 in warhammer 40k style

[@TheFastSalad]

Pretty sure I fell inlove with Snipe from those first few seconds of the video.. Great video, love this series.

[@geoffbushill5587]

When I worked at HQ at the time when IA Taros campaign was released. To this day I believe the reason that FW was never rolled into rules proper was FW’s studio was across the road from the Lenton site.

[@blastvader]

FW are behind BB, Adeptus Titanicus, Necromunda and Aeronautica Imperialis are they not? Those rules don't come from the main studio I thought? Specialist Games (re-imagined) are just an arm of FW.

[@BetweenDD]

There's something strangely warm and comforting about one of my favourite KZbin channels being a modestly sized one like this. Switching over from a 40million-sub behemoth of a channel to this is like coming home to a quiet little space with just my close friends and family after a day of shopping in busy crowds. So, while one part of me wants the whole world to learn to appreciate your style and chemistry, another part of me wants you to remain our little secret corner of the internet.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

Bloody hell 40 MILLION?! This channel is one of the biggest I watch!

[@romeman10]

I don't even play the table top but I find these videos enjoyable.

[@maxkircher4671]

Fun Fact: that short story about the Fighta-bomma getting shot down was also featured in the Ork section of Battlefleet Gothic Armada some years later. There's A Lot To Unpack Here, but the one hill I am most adamant about dying on is the Flyer Rules. I maintain that the 3rd Edition Flyer Rules from Forgeworld (and the VDR system) is by far the best and most logical set of rules for aircraft that Warhammer 40,000 has ever had. There are two reasons for this: 1. They are essentially a tabletop version of the A-10 and TU-16 airstrikes from Command & Conquer and Red Alert respectively, which is just glorious in its own right. 2. They are in fact the most realistic game mechanics for air support at the scale Warhammer 40,000 is supposed to be played at. Think about it. 40k, at its heart, is nominally supposed to be a Platoon-Company level tabletop game. At the Platoon-Company level of an engagement, fixed-wing aviation isn't going to stick around your little section of the battlefield, it's going to come zooming in from edge of your little sector, perform its mission, and then go zooming off again, possibly coming back around for another pass if it has the time/supplies/mission parameters to do so - just like aircraft units do in the 3rd Edition flyer rules! In contrast, the post-3rd edition "They're sort of like skimmers but harder to shoot and with a minimum move distance" are the really weird ones. (also the original Razorwing is fantastic and I will choose it every day over the 5th edition version. All glory to the Cloud Car of Death!) Besides that good job again with this video! This series is by far my favourite one on youtube looking at GW rules publications. I've still got fingers crossed for an episode on Codex: Tau in October for its 20-year anniversary (yes, that's right, the Tau have been in 40k for almost 20 years now. Feel old? Because I sure do)

[@Kill3rballoon]

I shall be referring to every Salamander’s vehicle as a “Dragan Wagan” from now on thank you.

[@dc_mischief]

I was going to compliment you on the excellent sound design in this episode, since I kept hearing what sounded like cannon fire in the background and it seemed appropriate. But nope--it's the start of Freedom Month in America, and the neighbors were setting off fireworks. Still a great episode!

[@xGamermonkeyx]

Between this and a new Dana Howl video I am a happy chappy, thank you Snipple and Wiblet!

[@vaniellys]

Yes, another episode of CC that I will watch 8 times instead of painting minis.

[@darkspire91]

3rd Edition's armor scale was the best and no one could convince me otherwise.

[@yagsipcc287]

3rd Edition as a whole was and still is the best Edition of 40K. Everything had more flavour, options, style etc... Just look at Chaos the amount of flavour and how back then they also supported the player in making there own things, armies etc...

[@8bitbonsai]

i bought a forgeworld baneblade in 2005 and when i first played it in an apocalypse game the enemy army retreated, no one wanted to fight this beast of an tank. it was the largest model anyone in my playergroup had seen so far.good times

[@JAHogshead]

The fact a tow vehicle is called the DRAGon wagon is poetry.

[@andrewnewell1142]

That crab looks happy 🦀

[@R17inator]

the best thing about Ork aircraft cockpits: part of the fuel line runs through the cockpit in case the pilot gets thirsty.

[@ratspike8017]

Another enjoyable video as always... I love it when Snipe and Wib cover some books that I actually consider quite new... (anything after 2nd ed is `new' to me).

[@imperialus1]

I still actually have my Hydra from Forge World. Spent a whole lot of summer job money getting that kit shipped over from England.

[@Hjaulmandra_Kanathara]

Fun fact, “Dagon Wagon” is a term given to service vehicles in WW2 for transporting tanks. Basically a massive engine with a small cab, twin .50 caps, and a long bed for recovery. And the Painting of the name by troops is extremely close to Comic sans.

[@mattshaw5179]

'Dragan Wagan' is very Rogue Trader!! Great video!!

[@Dracowinges]

Ohh bless the seers, a new video! Last time I was this early, Ynarri could double-tap in the shooting phase.

[@The3dMan1]

Love these old books, also love how some of the later IA books (mostly 6th and 7th Ed ones) are still the current rules for some Heresy units, always interesting when someone rocks up with one of them!

[@sandragruber4596]

I remember seeing these back in the day in my GW store. But no one of us ever bought or used them. We did not have enough money to even think about getting these models 😅 I saw a single Baneblade once there at a large scale game, but that was about it. Seeing someone with two Leman Russ tanks usually blew our minds...

[@tinysandwich4686]

Nostalgia hitting my like an emplaced Earthshaker round. While I love the more streamlined play of 8th, there was just something fun about armor facings, guess range weapons, templates, etc...

[@bigbritgaming930]

ok forge world, when can I get my ridiculously oversized battle wagons and fortresses again?

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

Definitely need more ork vehicle designs along those lines. Would also love more plastic options that follow the aesthetics of the Killtank a bit.

[@NMahon]

Customisable battle fortresses where you can build your own like a titan and purchase individual pieces!!

[@pauliusthemad3498]

We need rules and threads and wheels from there we are good to go with orky madness

[@topkek996]

Good old battlewagon that could carry as many orks as you could fit on the model. If they fell, they counted as dead.

[@Inucroft]

*Happy Imperial Armour Volume 2 noises* >Notices it is the OLD OLD on *Super happy noises*

[@Mrkabrat]

The turrets counting as troops choices may be due to the fact that in WFB sieges any siege attack/defense gear costed points you'd spend in the army. Though in WFB sieges it was common for the attacker to have double the points of the defenders (if you were the defender with 1000 points then the attacker would have 2000 points) in order to keep it balanced. But I could be wrong

[@Donnerino]

4:10 The Leman Russ Vanquisher is about the same weight of the US Army's MBT, the M1 Abrams, give or take 4 tons. but is actually less lengthy by 2-2.5 meters, making it actually quite compact, which makes sense given it's armor most likely consisting of Steel or "Ceramite" Armor plating, which I imagine is a little heavier than regular Composite armor used today. The barrel length compared to the size of the turret is absurd, of course, but it gives it that fun, bulky, dangerous look to it that the IG is so well known for. It's top speeds on the other hand are something to be desired. It's exceptionally slow at 30 Kph, whilst other MBTs today can go much, much faster (not that they should, it gets very bumpy). This leads me to think that the IG's engine technology isn't exactly up to snuff, given the weight of the vehicle. Back to it's Armor, 45mm-200mm is somewhat similar to modern MBTs, but the maximum armor protection is quite low for what I would expect. A lot of MBTs today have effective armor ratings from around 400mm to 600mm depending on the area (on the frontal arc, mind you, the rear and side arcs are extremely thin) Hope this helps anyone who was actually interested in the technical specifications, this actually wasn't very complicated, but not a lot of people know tank stuff, so it's whatever.

[@MrWarptime]

A love the style of the Imperial Arnour books. Presenting 40k like a historical wargame.

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

The Imperial Armor volume books were one of the things alongside Dawn of War to really introduce me to 40k. It's nice to see how they got started, even if it was the more barebones busybodyness of the modern style books than the big loredumps I'm used to.

[@Henners1991]

17:28 - The bit about destroyed Ork vehicles being counted twice and being mistaken for Battlewagons strike me as both being "in-jokes" about WW2. Namely the German habits of not counting destroyed tanks as lost if they were retrieved and the phenomenon of "Tiger Fear" (wherein rookie tankers would misidentify Panzer IVs as Tiger tanks).

[@blitzwing1985]

Still have a bunch of the old Leman russ kits and books. I wish I treated some of them better when I was a teen and but most are kinda obsolete now. But I still dig them. I actually have a destroyer and the old Bane Blade I loved using them.

[@Zaprozhan]

Any model that doesn't have official rules can still be played, as long as everybody around the table agrees to it. Only like 5% of 40K are "Tournament"

[@ashuramaru]

I just love listening to you two lovely people talk

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

Much love for the deep dives you do in these videos.

[@AFnord]

Is the towing platform that the Trojan is pulling at 7:44 made out of Epic-scale Landraiders, or am I just crazy?

[@snoophogg85]

Holy Emperor that ends credits music is awesome!

[@ironbomb6753]

Back in the early nineties the group I was throwing dice with were into Epic. Then, like now, availability of certain miniatures was hit and miss, mostly miss. So one of the guys got some other brand sci-fi lead space craft to use as a proxy Imperial aircraft. Another of the group told proxy boy, "you can't use those, they're way too aerodynamic for 40k". Well, it was funny at the time, guess you had to be there. Great vid you two, I still have those Imperial Armor books, well worn. Those weird rules were great because we finally had something concrete for our games. When looked at thru 3rd edition era rules, these were the cats ass ( or arse, depending on location) All hail Gav Thorpe, All hail Warwick Kindrad, All hail Jervis Johnson, All hail Tony Cottrell 🫀👍

[@Echo1608.]

7:09 No no no, please continue. The formula one joke was so outa left field I choked on my drink because I was laughing so hard.

[@michaelhowell2326]

I'm glad I'm not alone in hating it when they make a series of books or codices and they are of different dimensions. Irks the hell out of me.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

I've never been someone who cares about precise statistics like weight and speed and stuff for vehicles, fictional or otherwise, and I've just never been a vehicle person in tabletop games. Nevertheless, this is a BRILLIANT video!

[@vattmann1387]

I'm glad I've still got my old Laser Tank destroyer & Manticore models :) I'll have to hit up one of my mates who has a bunch of Ork and Grot Forge World stuff to have a nosy at them again. They did require a fair bit of work to fit due to some production issues from the early days of Forge World though.

[@anarchistmugwump9137]

The bit about third edition rules for armour penetration got me to recall this particularly nasty rule from the old Necron codex about Gaus weapons and Disruption Fields, where if you rolled a 6 to hit they automatically score a glancing hit. So a squad of regular warriors had a fair bit of potential to immobilise a tank. Unfortunately for me I used to play necrons like an absolute lemon and never took much advantage of this, I relied too much on esoteric units like wraiths, heavy destroyers and tomb spiders, so I rarely won against my guard player adversary. I should have been using more warriors and immortals.

[@The_E_Paladin]

I actually have the White Dwarf with the vehicle design rules. It’s really interesting.

[@Nemoknowsnothing]

I actually like the idea of fast flyers not being fixed on the table

[@DismemberTheAlamo]

@5:22 - One might say that dreadnaught was pretty.... 'armless.

[@ravensroost3224]

Another great vid, really enjoyed it. And the F1 joke made me laugh, so please squeeze one in in as many videos as possible, pls!

[@ddlee84]

Comic sands the font that will outlast history itself :P....Plus I did love the pedal setting discriptions in the Ork cockpit I could actually imagine a fighta commander saying "Speed to fasta you gitz"

[@just_taccat]

Currently building a guard army. The dragan wagan will definitely be making a return on a chimera or something

[@kiskatona3439]

Many moons ago I converted a Lightning Strike out of the Dark Angels Nephilim fighter, and pulled it out recently. The rules have changed for it several times since, so I refurbished it to regular lightning with the autocannon.....then I discovered that the latest IA update book only has the Voss pattern. I like my work with the autocannon too much to take it off now, but at least I can still use the 8E rules. AFAIK there's been no changes to it in Apocalypse, which is what I'm mainly going to be using it in.

[@Ralndrath]

This makes me want to listen to the audiobook of Honour Guard again. The tank battles in that are damned cool. Good book too!

[@SwordlordRoy]

I think I have a copy of the (Later) Ork Bommer, it's missing a set of gunz for the turret, but nothing a set of spare Ork Boy Shootas can't solve.

[@frostyheretic299]

Oh one thing id love to see on this channel is if you guys cover DnD 1E id say there might be some good audiance overlap!

[@zozo4177]

The lightning looks like Stargate SG-1 fighter jet

[@j.e1334]

Dragon Wagon was a nickname used by the United States military for various heavy trucks, so that might be where it came from.

[@davidshea6272]

On the subject of the Lightning having two different origins but not different names for basically the air frame, I would like to point you to many historical planes that share the same name, for instance, the 25+ variants of Spitfire which are all slightly different, produced at different times, with different loadouts, engines, wing setups etc.

[@darrylelam256]

I run a forge world variant of the chimera, not sure which book it's from. But it was just a chimere with an autocannon for the turret weapon. Using the battle script app it tells me the current points cost, a simple 10 point upgrade but it is listed as (legendary). To be honest I wish they would add that variant to the main rules as I think it works well.

[@tshaeness7410]

I have one of those knocking about somewhere, It’s now called a storm chimera in legends but also used to be a gryphonne pattern chimera

[@marcwittkowski5146]

I wonder if the STD for the Lightning jet was discovered on Gonoria...

[@ezekielthedragon7558]

Gunwagons came back in 8th edition. They are the same model as battlewagon but with rules to help it be more shooty.

[@Vladislav_Sargas]

In the grim darkness of the far future there's only COMIC SANS

[@cyrilscordia9565]

the shells endowment is for the campaign and very big game like some unofficial "siege world thing " ( epic to 40k ) set of rules

[@jacktraveller8290]

The music at the end of the video is rad

[@SimonClark]

Dragan Wagan

[@bryngoldsmith1848]

The thunder wolf gunship is perfect

[@UnkleKlumsy1353]

Sweet Gork I remember when these books released

[@LordProteus]

Never forget the legends of the Cudbear and Dragon Wagan.

[@matttaylor4003]

The Dagan Wagon was based the WWII Tank Recover Vehicle M25 That was nicked named Dragon Wagon en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M25_Tank_Transporter

[@ArchArturo]

11:55 You guys don't understand... The Machine Spirit of that tank needed... nay... DEMANDED... To have its name proudly emblazoned on the Sacred Scriptorum 'Comic Sans'.

[@paddymick4627]

great vid thanks, its nice to know how we ended up where we are now... gav thorpe rules! wonder what he's doing now...and 'i feel like it's art' made me lol.

[@Starman_Dx]

When are we getting Kicking Pattern Dreadnoughts?!

[@EternalQuestion]

The Saint-Saen crusade.... As in the composer of 'Danse Macabre'. Brilliant.

[@thra-x1855]

And most whole unit entries were for nothing more than weapon swaps. I swear, if GW would just implement an equip limit for vehicle hardpoints and an equip cost for weapons they could increase on-table variety 10 fold and print half as many books (fat chance, that's how they think they'll make more money).

[@meanmanturbo]

4:14 Size about right. Slow as hell though. Barrel length looks very short for such a big bore gun, but that might just be the modells fault, for a modern 120mm canon the length is about right. Biggest thing is the armour which looks very thin if one were to assume RHA values. RHA means rolled homogeneous armor, armor made from solid steel. Tanks now days dont use solid steel armour, you use fancy composite armours. But you give protection of armour and penetration values of anti tank weapons in RHA equivalents. So you could say that the frontal armour of a tank had the protection equivalent of 200mm of RHA, or that an anti tank missile could penetrate 300mm of RHA. For comparisson a Soviet T55 tank from 1947 has 200mm armour in the front turret, weighs about 40 tons as opposed to 63 and has a max speed of 50 kph as opposed to 32. Now the one thing is that the Leman Russ armour thickness might be for something more fancy then solid steel, and/or it might not be RHA values. Then again, Leman Russes are supposed to be converted from tractor STC blueprints, so it could go either way. From a glance the stats looks impressive for a WW2 tank.

[@legokid0118]

What was the music in the last minute of the video? Because I like that .

[@qaon5748]

what's the closing credits tune? sounds amazing

[@micheal4526]

As someone who genuinely enjoys rescue jobs I’ll keep my eye out for undamaged boards if you want to trade for the damaged ones

[@nightfire734]

My dad got me a gun wagon with las as a kid and thank god that thing is resin because I did and redid so many bad paint jobs and strips over the years. Beat it the hell up and it just looks better.

[@noops9220]

1:55 mission accomplished banner deployed!

[@walt_man]

I recall this book having absolutely TINY armor thickness for the Imperial Guard vehicles, like WW1 Tankette levels.. lol

[@librarianseth5572]

The idea of making ideas for flying vehicles makes me wonder why no one has kitbashed a heldrake, painted it gold, and made some form of space eagle servitor/dreadnought for the imperium? Would I be the only one into legions of astartes backed by golden eagles with thunder talons and lasers for eyes? Someone with more time, money, and skill than me should try it out

[@Zaprozhan]

Sounds like fun! You and your friends can play anything that you all agree to.

[@SgtSwiper]

the vanquisher's cross country performance isn't loopy it's slow at 11-12mph, but that was how fast pretty much every afv moved cross country in ww2 something oft forgotten by documentaries and historians the older books are finely polished gems

[@philmccrack698]

The old lighting was beautiful.