The emergent church

[@men_of_god7]

Piper dropping knowledge bombs as usual. He makes great points about not worshiping "relationships" at the expense of God's revealed word

[@hamptonkr]

Wow! Clear, cogent, right on point. John Piper says what we knew in way fewer words than anyone else.

[@jasonwilliamson8027]

Richard Rohr is awesome and really helped me

[@IncognitoMouse]

Doctrine is important. It does divide. Sometimes we must agree to disagree and move on, but we can not minimize it.

[@draz39]

I don’t understand how any Christian can dislike this video. How can you support people like Rob Bell who literally go against the Bible’s teachings??

[@WoollyLuke]

And here I am because I didn’t know what the Emergent Church is, 11 years later, because it’s still a thing....

[@TheCreepypro]

may we always love your truth and doctrine Lord

[@christopherd6399]

Dang, Piper got this one wrong. Emergent church may well be the great apostasy we've been anticipating. Because it is so widespread now.

[@tuppence144]

I agree. It's worse now than ever before. We don't hear the term any longer but it found its tenticles deep into many churches. Thanks to Richard Rohr and his cronies.

[@PulpitoftheLastDays]

I think the falling away began in the mid 1950's, with the advent of psychology in the pulpit. Psychology is not scripture and is not entitled to the same acceptance. By it, men are 'ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." The Emerging church is a pronounced iteration of the basically-psychology approach, but in truth, there is hardly a church in the country that is not infected with it to some degree.

[@skyhigh33716]

That’s why I’m not religious …and don’t belong to a church …..I believe in God and Jesus .

[@moonjp]

Jesus quotes from the Word (Old Testament) as well many many times. Also, let's not forget how we discover who Jesus is. Practically, it's by reading His words and what is written about His life from the Bible, and then following it.

[@RexLawson4eva]

You KNOW he's talking to black people, the way they're audibly agreeing with him, i love how we express ourselves

[@BronzeLincolns81]

nah, it ain't going anywhere. self loving, God's law hating humanists love the emergent church.

[@jnobap]

I took Piper's statement referring to priority of relationships over truth to mean the Emergent churches' emphasis on human interpersonal relationships over and above Biblical truths. And yes, I agree with you that relationship doesn't always follow from truth. But in order for there to be healthy valuable relationship, truth is often necessary. Unless of course unity in deception can be considered a healthy relationship.

[@tuppence144]

You hit the nail on the head. Unity in deception. See Alisha Childers teaching. Her book 'Another Gospel' is brilliant.

[@homeschooledrapper9174]

Exactly! Seems to me the Emergent church is a deconstructed church, trying to build a new system of theology. On the surface it's not bad, but the depths of its danger lies in the skepticism of the Biblical doctrine that'd existed since the early Church and the fluidity of its members in what is true. It's like joining a club to smell roses all day and chat but never understand what it means that God's Word is Truth.

[@illbehonest]

Amen!

[@matthewterry9413]

PREACH!!! 🔥

[@Dano853]

I would also like to add, that we often default to the passage: 'trust in the Lord with all your heart...(etc)" And then STILL lean to our own understanding by simply trusting what someone else has told us that a particular scripture means. This is usually done after we relate an event or feelings that we have experienced. That scripture is used to downplay and even dismiss personal experience. But our lives ARE a personal experience and our relating to God is a personal experience.

[@MauriceCBrown3rd]

it's normal for those who love to have the preeminence to criticize or even lie about those who could seem like a hazard against their control over the thoughts of their followers. I got interested in learning about the emerging church because I had known Brian in the early 80's in his own home fellowship, which was a bible study and a prayer meeting. I listened to a couple you tube vids with John MacArthur, and he made several false claims. John said that Jesus "never ever assaulted one social institution that was out of wack" . So what about Jesus driving out the moneychangers and called them thieves , and he referred to the corrupt religious leaders as vipers and hypocrites and such. MacAuthur also said Jesus refused to create a welfare state. I guess he forgot about how much the old and new covenants taught on how to treat the poor and needy and widows and orphans. And how the Holy spirit effected the early church to share all things common. In trying to criticize the emerging church, people have become blind leaders of the blind

[@kidkratoski3778]

Truth always wins over the devils lies.

[@men_of_god7]

"Doctrines divide and relationships pull together". This is such a great way to sum up the whole movement. It's essentially the worship of man and the minimizing of God. What happened to the words of john the baptist, "He must increase and I must decrease."?

[@K1370]

I love John Piper's ZEAL. A rant? no. Zeal. :) God bless you pastor Piper! thank God for John Piper and Mark Driscoll :D

[@RadijjarDas]

I am so amazed that many of the people who called "Christians" are saying that Piper is not right , he does not have any rights to say these kinds of things about Emergent church or accusing of giving his opinions or thoughts on them. First thing what the Christians have to do it, just do investigation on what the Emergent Church believes especially Brian Maclaren or Rob Bell and compare to what the Bible claims. I did a bit of investigation and I am agree with Piper 100%

[@akepot]

@patriciacarrasco not necessarily, but they are closely related."Emergent" refers to a specific church movement, and "ecumenical" refers to a broader singular idea that seeks unity and cooperation in the church. Emergent groups are very commonly ecumenical. However, there can also be churches that are ecumenical, but not necessarily emergent. Bottom line, they are both very similar in that, they stray away from orthodoxy by favoring "unity" (even superficially) over doctrine.

[@Dano853]

But I also must qualify that in discipleship we must learn to trust (to some degree) those who have been placed over us to serve and teach us. Discerning who we should allow to teach us and disciple us ins paramount.

[@obg7]

Even if the Emergent church faded within the next 10 years, it has already infiltrated many "solid, evangelical" church with their ideas, teachings, methods and practices. Again, God warned of this in His Word already (2 Peter 2). Always, always, always rest on the authoritative Word of God when responding to questions!!! Keep opinion out of it, at all cost.

[@stevetucker5851]

As a born again Christian, I’ve recently been having trouble with the idea of an eternity of torment. And if you’re a Calvinist like Piper, it takes the idea of Hell to an even more ridiculous level. According to Calvinists, God created us, predestining certain people to an eternity of suffering. But not only that, he predestined the MAJORITY of us to an eternity of suffering. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and sits just fine with me. 🙄

[@tattooheath]

Steve Tucker it is in scripture so if you believe in the totality of the gospel then yes God has chosen those who will accept him. Yes Hell is brutal & absolutely terrible but no...God never “chose” those who will go to Hell; He simply can’t control free will & there is a huge difference. I was an agnostic for a decade & John Piper fully understands the authentic hard ball gospel presented in the Bible you won’t hear from those with immature theological understanding.

[@tuppence144]

​@@tattooheath Do you mean what you say that God can't change free will? Does that mean my will is stronger than God's will? If you stand by your point, you say God is not sovereign? Its hard to get our heads around predestination and selection. Take care

[@desertrose0601]

Truth. 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@riveranelson]

2020, 10 years later and is even more relevant today. Unfortunately Piper was wrong, is still active that term, shamefully. American Gospel Christ Crucified is making the point today with what is going on right now in that movement

[@johnwalterrautenbach1921]

Give an example of these emergent churches today please?

[@JayElleist]

JESUS COME AND TAKE US WITH YOU!!! John Piper, this message stands against the true evils of the emergent church, but have you fallen away so suddenly? I pray this man is a true believer, because I cannot bear the thought of him sending his congregation to the hands of the purpose driven apostate Rick Warren. May I be used for Christ, for He is my only life and besides Him I desire nothing.

[@obg7]

I have to disagree on one strong point Piper makes in this Q&A. The Emergent church is not about to fade in 10 years & it definitely has not seen it's peak. They are popping up left and right in my city and surrounding towns. Not to mention, you gotta stick with Scripture. Always go to the authoritative Word. God said the chances of "churches" like the Emergent are more likely to continue into the last days (2 Tim. 4:3-5).

[@Dano853]

Interesting that my experience with an emergent group over the last 2 months hads been VERY encouraging. For us Emergent means dropping the illusion that church must follow the prescribed formula of 1 person teaches & everyone else listens (and is expected to agree) with the points of the sermon. Not saying that agreeing is bad... but the notion that questioning what is taught is taboo.. VERY bad. In our meetings, we all share experiences, scripture, what we observe, & what our hearts desire is.

[@tuppence144]

How are you doing? When you gather as a church, do you meet around an 'objective' truth, or is each person's authentic experiences your truth? Does doctrine have a place in your relationship with the Jesus of the Bible?

[@danielolson437]

@@tuppence144 Our greatest dependence is on the Spirit, whom Christ told us "would lead us into all truth". What inspires love, peace, joy, kindness, patience, faithfulness, meekness... is the test of the presence and life of Christ. If we stick to the letter of the Bible, then the book LITERALLY becomes what we try to have a relationship with: IT becomes our God. So it is not so much the "Jesus of the Bible" as much as it is discerning scripture by the Spirit. Attempting to comprehend scripture complete at face value leads to madness. Many years back, I decided that I need to read the NT devoid of the bias of my previous teachings. It was then i started to understand why so much of what i was taught did not sit right in my soul. I did not want to be the kind of Christian i was being taught to be. I'm still FAR from what i would call a good Christian, but now my idea of what a good Christian is more attainable and palatable. And God isn't so fickle, petty, or arrogant.

[@tuppence144]

@@danielolson437 Thank you for the reply. No need to expand, would just like to know if you believe that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone?

[@danielolson437]

@@tuppence144 i do. I can't fully explain what or how God reaches us anymorethan I can explainhis presence. But he does. I know it is by His grace, in Christ, by faith. But I don't know if people have to understand that before they receive forgiveness. I didn't understand it when the power of God changed me. Previously, I was unable to respond to a gospel of fear of hell. Nor was that preached at Pentecost and after when thousands received the Spirit. But it was the power of God among men and the demonstration of his immeasurable love that prepares our hearts to surrender, sometimes, like my own case, we don't even know until it happens. Because God finds a way. It is His greatest desire to see us made whole... and the Spirit never rests. His grace is relentless!

[@moonjp]

@kingdomtheology Bell integrates his reformed tradition with some of the new perspectives. As for, McLaren, if you've read his newest book, even emergent people like Scot McKnight who's buddies with N.T. Wright will say his theology is not orthodox.. McLaren in his newest book, has come out clearly on what he believes.. No literal hell-'eternal concious torment.' 'no fall.' 'and that the gospel is basically about being non-violent,', 'Bible--evolving perception of humans of God.'

[@bobo577]

Jesus himself spoke about hell to his own followers interestingly, the warnings of hell are towards the Body of Christ.

[@K1370]

Well you can see the anger in him. He's human. Aren't we all...

[@104overnout]

This Brian Mclaren dude is lost...pray for him and the thousands that follow this kind of thinking.

[@fightthegoodfightoffaithmi8676]

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

[@brianfeaster1]

@ezragriffiths You're right. Piper should have read the book before giving his opinion on the matter. I haven't read his book either, but I have heard Brian Mclean speak, and that was enough for me to see that Piper has a point here. This church does not stress the need to repent as we saw with John the Baptist & Jesus. No repentance prevents reconciliation between God and man. And if we aren't reconciled to Christ then we are still outside of His church & salvation(John 3:7-12).

[@robertjosephkleist3761]

Good for him pointing out how the Black community was not swept up in this white, upper middle-class movement.

[@twalk4ever]

Amen, Piper.

[@ArugaPH]

10 years and they are still deceiving..

[@BooThing14]

@ShawnQuintero When Peter preached the very first sermon, what did he preach? He told the Jews assembled together that the Christ whom they crucified Is the SOn of GOd and they must repent for their sins. In all of the new testament the "method" was preaching the Jesus Christ and the Cross and His ressurection....

[@fawninthegrass5704]

They are in my city thats all thats out here Ted Talks with a few scriptures then stories about them and examples from Huffington post then a few scriptures at the end.

[@mjoshuacauller]

There are those of us who don't compromise the Truth and are very involved in the Emerging conversation (or what's left of it after so much of the church criticized it to the point of it nearly dying). Ever notice how the older church always criticizes the younger moves? What did Gamaliel say in Acts 5? If it's not of God, let it die. If it's of God, who wants to be caught on the side of opposing him? Correct in love. Not criticism. Personally, not with a broad brush.

[@Bev4Drawing]

OK. People. He was asked a question about the emerging church. And he answered it. He's not just talking to be talking. He giving his honest opinion. There are truths in his words. The emergent church is going away from Bible truth by a lot of the things they are "experimenting" in. I don't mind asking the hard questions about the Faith but I do mind answering them non-biblically. It's become so opinionated that it's almost all opinion and maybe a little truth sprinkled on top.

[@gggggg-lq8fs]

Friend, good listener, few words....

[@da7nesman]

That would be like saying "can't the United States Of America accept that there are other types of governments other than Capitalist Democracy? Why can't we stop policing other nations and telling them they need to switch to our way of governing." You will never hear a president say that at an Inauguration.

[@ahnandahn]

This sounds like the religious leaders' response to "earth is not flat!" A person who has the nerve to criticize someone (not having read the work) isn't worth listening to.

[@BooThing14]

@ShawnQuintero i don't understand what you mean by "whether they are made aware of the Gospel or not"...the TRUE love of the LORD is His CROSS.....they must be made aware of the Gospel...that is the POWER of GOD and LOVE of Almighty God demonstrated.

[@mtbugaj]

Farewell John Piper.

[@Tirzahhofman]

It's not over...

[@therealdrag0]

@ValueDream Generalizations are valid to describe overall trends.

[@Dano853]

Agreed!

[@BooThing14]

@sugarandeis Cite your source, when did I say I preach hell? I SAID that as believers we KNOW a person's eternal destination without Christ (HELL), Therefore, we must preach Jesus Christ Crucified, ressurected, Ruler and King of all, and the only way to eternal life in Heaven. We must preach repentance of Sin and Faith in Jesus. Repentance (turning away from) of Sin is a Requirement to Walk with the Lord in this life and in eternity.

[@PulpitoftheLastDays]

The emerging church had youth and enthusiasm on it side, with a desire to make changes. Their vehicle was 'the dialogue,' which means that everything, including good doctrine, was back on the table, so they would have something to discuss among themselves. But not to reach conclusions over. Because if they ever did that, it would have to come off the table and the 'dialogue' would end. This soon reached absurd levels. Everything from, "What does the Bible say about homosexuality? There is no adequate answer," to "Arius of Alexandria deserves another look." They were like a troop of fine young actors, boasting about the performance they would give; yet no one had given them a script. So they spontaneously changed for the sake of change, through dumbing-down. This made them the first generation in ages to actually lose ground. I consider this a very sad thing, given their initial outlook, but I make these observations because there are things we may learn from their mistakes.

[@BooThing14]

@ShawnQuintero "When he [the Holy Spirit] is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." John 15:26 You can't love people into Heaven!!!. Jesus preached repentance and coming judgement, He loves people and that is why he preached that message and that is why we preach that message!! REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND BE BAPTIZED. BELIEVE !!! TURN TO JESUS, THE LION OF JUDAH IS COMING BACK SOON!!!!

[@BooThing14]

@sugarandeis The Good News is that IF we repent (turn from our sin) and turn to Jesus who paid the price to cleanse us from sin, we will be reconciled to God the Father who can now teach us His ways through the Holy Spirit. How can there be repentance and true conversion if people arent aware of their sin and eternal destination without God, Jesus sacrifice makes no sense without that...

[@whatisatlas]

It sure feels nice to paint with a big brush, doesn't it? Just bottle everybody together in the same lump and judge them....ummm....feels so good.

[@landsdown44]

@Godsquad588 that God for people like McLaren and Bell who are bringing the true message of Jesus back into the light where it belongs.

[@moonjp]

@kingdomtheology As for McLaren.. . he doesn't believe in hell (where there's eternal torment), Jesus won't come back to judge and condemn, and believes the Bible as people's evolving perception of God. Thus, things that happens in Joshua about saying God is wrathful and instructed Joshua to kill isn't a reflection of God, but just a perception of God at that time.. These challenge, even for the sake of converstaion, what many Christians believe in.. so expect the controversy if you question it

[@men_of_god7]

@billb380 You see it as hatred and snark because your understanding is depraved.

[@doulostheou777]

When God calls a man to shepherd his people as a pastor, it is his duty to protect the sheep from wolves(i.e. those false teachers who distort the truth of Christ). So when John Piper gets angry about false teaching/emerging church, he is being more loving by exposing it and attacking it, than if he said nothing about it at all.

[@BooThing14]

@ShawnQuintero The "problem" is always the same with everyone. The problem is SIN

[@greenspey]

I think Piper's point regarding the middle/upper class comment was simply that the emergent movement is far and away held by middle/upper class white young people. Not that they're the only demographic with problems. Piper is consistent in saying all people of all cultures of all times are sinners. However, I would agree that the emergent movement is appealling primarily to those who have not suffered injustice (mid/upp class white). You wont' find it in the 3rd world, either.

[@JacobBoehmeOnline]

As North American Chairman of the World Council of Cults, I strongly disapprove of this message.

[@Madstmichael77]

Get this guy a straight jacket.

[@moonjp]

If you were to follow both John Piper and N.T. Wright. they have a lot more in common theologically than you think. The only difference I see is how they define as righteousness. Piper sees it as a moral standing that God places above. i.e. in Christ, God sees you as perfect. N.T. Wright sees it more as a badge of being in. I really think it's semantics and where they tend to emphasize..

[@ma101661]

Preach it!

[@phi223]

@TheCannonofMohammed Communion is simply supposed to be done by believers in Christ when they gather together to remember our savior. It is incredibly important to me as a Christian, and I do it because Jesus said to do it. But it is nothing superstitious, simply a symbolic way to remember Jesus death and my resulting salvation because of it. It does not bring unity, but it is done when we are in unity.

[@KnightOwl2006]

The church of whatever floats your boat.

[@BooThing14]

@ShawnQuintero If your saying that you show love ( works) and then share Jesus the Cross and the resurrection, including why His sacrifice was necessary ( Our sin)...then I'm in total agreement. But you cannot show God's love apart from the message of Jesus and His Cross...

[@Insaneplanetman]

You Da man Pipe Bomb!

[@jthomson1]

Truth.

[@moonjp]

I've read McLaren's book. His most recent one, he explicitly comes out with what he believes in. I'm not sure how you define as being heretical, but he doesn't believe in a literal hell, he doesn't believe that Jesus died for our sins, he doesn't believe in Satan, he believes the Bible as a collection of peoples' evolving perceptions of God. So, I don't know what you believe in, but for many Christians, this is what they believe in and so McLaren sorta attacks their beliefs.

[@greendesert69]

I hope he is right... I hope this deception fades away as fast as it appeared. Unfortunatelly, I think it will come back dressed up as something else. And yes he's right, it's a sick deception and should be exposed as such.

[@antichristkiller]

amen

[@WTG194]

this makes me want to read Brian Mclaren even more! Never liked men claiming to be holders of the "truest" gospel, John Piper is one of them.

[@kidkratoski3778]

Well go to it dude.. Trust "feelings" over the Word of God and see what you get, but take it from me you WILL regret it until your dying day,

[@ArugaPH]

People will want to hear what their itching ears want to hear.

[@ViktorOddy]

read him, laso take a look at Rob Bell's books

[@WTG194]

@@ArugaPH are you talking about Brian Maclaren or Piper. I used to like Piper a lot but then I got turned off by the way he sort of makes people reliant on his interpretations. my opinion of swung completely in the other direction, but of late I find myself not taking either extreme. So I kind of regret old comments I used to make like the ones above. But still I won't listen to Piper as though he is the be all and end all

[@dennislane4972]

You say you're against it mock it , but saport them that have it , ( decieving ,spirts)

[@Dano853]

Thanks.... I suppose thats good advice for everyone.

[@andrewrpearson]

How can an intelligent man like Piper critique the emerging church by attacking Brian McLaren while acknowledging that he hasn't even read any of McLaren's books. Does no else think that's astonishing?

[@ellenhenderson6865]

Absolutely. It is hypocrisy at its best.

[@moonjp]

@gibberish47 that's John Piper's point.

[@obg7]

@wonnthree - don't just avoid them. Warn others about them and warn them with the truth of God's Word!!

[@dfpolitowski2]

@acslater017 truth is often time difficult to bear. Bro. But we must embrace it.

[@mjoshuacauller]

@99minerkc I'm sorry. I'm not trying to speak authoritatively. I'm referencing how Jesus responded in John 6: specifically from verses 25 and on. I tend to like how Jesus responds to things in the Bible. It's very different from what one might expect.

[@GabrielHarder]

Why are truth and relationships at odds? Last time I checked, Truth was a Person long before it was propositional.

[@moonjp]

Personally, I see that in his previous books, but not in this recent one. Have you read his newest book, "a New Kind of ChristianITY? I don't think you have to question orthodoxy to be a more peaceful, non-violent, justice advocating Christ follower. Scot McKnight, which Pipers alludes to and has written book published under the emergent village, even wrote a critique and questios McLaren's orthodoxy.

[@moonjp]

@kingdomtheology Personally, I see that in his previous books, but not in this recent one. Have you read his newest book, "a New Kind of ChristianITY? I don't think you have to question orthodoxy to be a more peaceful, non-violent, justice advocating Christ follower. Scot McKnight, which Pipers alludes to and has written book published under the emergent village, even wrote a critique and questios McLaren's orthodoxy.

[@jnobap]

Hi Atheistan87, It isn't a standard evangelical belief that relationships trump doctrine. Definitely that a relationship with God through Christ, trumps certain insignificant doctrinal differences. But many evangelicals would agree that in order to have a relationship with the true God, there are basic truths about Him and His will that one must come to understand/believe.

[@BooThing14]

@ShawnQuintero I shout because I have the Victory in Jesus and I have good news. whats wrong with preaching, john the baptist, JESUS, Peter, Paul, and all 12 apostles and others after them PREACHED BOLDLY! If it worked for them it will work for me :) Glory to GOd... Be Bold Brother...Jesus loves it!

[@lauraleighparker]

I want to follow Jesus, not Piper or McLaren. Isn't the conversation about Christ and what he taught a part of the beautiful tradition of Christianity? Let us not inflate ourselves or anyone above Christ or each other. The conversation is what pushes us to grow, reconsider, and affirm. It should never end and God is big enough to guide our growth and conversation.

[@obg7]

don't get stuck there. The greater issue to remain focused on is that fact that many are being deceived away from the Truth (2 Peter 2). Jesus is the only way and must remain the head of every local Christian church in order for them to please God. Plain and simple. The Holy Bible is clear on that - so don't get distracted by Piper's side statement

[@BloodCovenant]

The emergent church is not over. It has gotten its second wind. The focus is still all about relationships at the expense of sound doctrine. The main way I spot this type of Church is the preaching is all about me, me, me, my, my, my, and some Bible verses are thrown in for good measure. The glory of God is not declared. The cross has been replaced with psychology and the wisdom of men. Is it any wonder this is the case? for at least the last 50 years the status quo has been to turn our kids over to Satan for 12 grades and out pops someone less inclined to believe in or live by infallible truth and then in the last 30 years, theses now parents from 50 years ago turn their kids over to Satan for 12 grades with the added bonus of having them on psychotropic drugs that nobody, even the doctors don't know what will happen from the long term use of the drugs? Let me tell you what happened. CRT, SJW, Alphabet Soup of perversions and violence has filled the land. We should not be surprised folks. We should repent.

[@Dano853]

Whether someone considers any specific group of assembled believers "a church" according to Man's definition, seems irrelevant. Our human tendency to label people and groups of people, helps us mentally manage an unnaturally overcrowded sphere of interest/concern. I find while scripture indicates we should hold one another accountable... it does so assuming a limited community, those with seemingly direct interaction, not the world wide cacophony of those who claim the name of Christ.

[@marypeter7957]

DECEPTION

[@Creationcreed]

Most "black" churches are not emergent from what I can tell, but many of the "black" churches are more of the line of Pelagianism with a sprinkle of Calvinistic type doctrine. That's the only way I can describe the doctrinal teachings(not that any are bound by those labels though).

[@ambassador_in_training]

The Scripture warned of the great falling away and teaching doctrines of demons. It's not a surprise that such things are taking place. It's literally fulfillment of the more sure prophetic Word. Many walk the broad road to destruction and fear not the warnings of Jesus Christ. It's a sad thing to behold that 2 Thes 10-12 is bring fulfilled before our very eyes: People believe a lie. That's a tragic situation!!

[@pablitohan]

@gibberish47 Piper is talking about how "emergent church" people emphasize relationship and having good relationships. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but when you dismiss the Truth of Jesus, that this Person died for your sins, then it becomes problematic,

[@FortheLuIz]

um, yeah. Check out SGMSurvivors. Can you answer those questions?

[@drayker99]

Im more disturbed by all the comments here....John is upholding and defending the truths found in Gods Word but all the comments on here are aimed at John.... For those of you who make all these comments(out of ignorance)you need to realize that even Christ was rejected and talked about for defending and explaining the truth to the people of his time.... So are you mad at John or what the Word has to say....?

[@moonjp]

@kingdomtheology Anyway, you like McLaren and I can see that and you feel his message resonates. I'm not critiquing McLaren's beliefs, just that when he questions beliefs that have been important for many Christian, I"m just saying expect a controversy. If I say, to you.. 'did Jesus really exist?" you'll naturally defend it and may even call me a heretic. So don't be so surpised and call people names when they're not as receptive as you are to McLaren's questions.

[@BooThing14]

@sugarandeis How do you tell someone the Good News if they don't know the bad news. The bad news is we are seperated from God because of our sin and disobedience condemned to an eternity without Him in hell.

[@FredZ2012]

I'm a fan of John Piper, but my comment is as a fan of Brian McLaren as well... I'm wondering how reliable a person's criticism can be on someone else if he hasn't actually read the book... I feel that John's criticism toward McLaren is unfair (especially if one concider that he hasn't even read the book on which he actually bases the most of his criticism toward McLaren)