The end of LEGO Mindstorms

[@RacingBrick]

You can read the full statement here - racingbrick.com/2022/10/the-end-of-lego-mindstorms/

[@lovemadeinjapan]

It is clickbait! Thing is they basically ran out of turqoise plastic. Mindstorm == Spike Prime. Spike is not discontinued. So we basically loose the option to order the cool looking variant. But you want to program the 51515 with your smart hub flashed as Spike Hub anyway. I think it has to do with A) Lego refusing to offer 51515 to school suppliers. I HATE being forced to buy the BFU Spike sets because of the way the education channel is stocked, and B) they seem to have trouble stocking their electronic components, so they choose to simplify for now.

[@RacingBrick]

@@lovemadeinjapan Mindstorms isn't the same as Spike Prime, not at all. Many accessories are different, the app is different and even the app features are different. If you are a SP user then the change might not affect you, but when the Mindstorms app will be gone then a lot of users will feel it, so it is not clickbait at all.

[@lovemadeinjapan]

@@RacingBrick You can and you should flash your MS hub as Spike hub anyway. The Mindstorm software is rubbish. The 51515 kit has a way better brick selection. Motors and sensors and hubs are identical.

[@RacingBrick]

@@lovemadeinjapan that's your opinion, maybe you should accept that others might think different about Mindstorms.

[@lovemadeinjapan]

@@RacingBrick It's just a fact. The internals are identical, and you can flash both firmwares on each hub. The opinion part: it might kill Gelo, Tricky and Blast, but that is not too bad imo, as 51515 is first of all a set that invites to build things from scratch from your own ideas. That capability does not change.

[@jameskratzer4538]

Lego seems to have missed the point by not making a unified product that completely ties Brick, Technics, and Mindstorms together. I've spent thousands of dollars trying to tie it all in, so I could build custom robotics prototypes; no luck.

[@Mr_Buzz_Aldrin]

Well said, and I agree with you. It seems like they don't have a unified vision, even with their power up products. I hope they combine & rebrand all the above into one unified system, but I won't hold my breath. I've lost a lot of faith in the company since the latest Hogwarts Express debacle.

[@RacingBrick]

Powered Up was the promise to become the app that supports all hardware, unfortunately we did not really see any signs of that happening

[@heikodatchi3715]

Agreed. They needed to bring it all together.

[@imaginitivity7853]

This really is the danger they are flirting with. We persevere with Lego robotics due to sunk costs, barrier to entry of investing in and learning other systems, but if Lego force us to consider alternatives they could lose the hobby robotics community completely

[@lovemadeinjapan]

Treat all offerings by Lego as solid hardware, but look for software elsewhere. Best one-fits-all package today is Bricklife's Scratch mod.

[@bdablader95]

Absolutely breaks my heart. The NXT and NXT 2.0 is what got me into robotics in high school, I even won 2 awards for robotics in my district for my programming and build for my sumo and sorter. I hope this isn't goodbye, Mindstorms is such an incredible introduction to coding, even small children can figure out basic codes for the NXT, hopefully Lego is creating a new generation of robotics.

[@BlackringIII]

The largest problem is that they iterated too much between systems. The entire point of this is to be able to build near limitless creations and capabilities with code, motors, and mechanics, given supply. They didn't grow a system, they just kept redoing it. They have had power functions and control +, why not integrate new sensor components and computer bricks into those systems?

[@RacingBrick]

Proper sensor and interactive motor control was not possible with PF. I agree with having wa too many iterations at the moment, Spike Prime, Spike Essential, Mindstorms, Control+ and so on, we had way too many. What I don't see is a clear roadmap going forward, as Boost and Mindstorms is dead, what is left for non-Education purposes?

[@imaginitivity7853]

Yes, even backwards compatibility between nxt/rcx was possible to an extent, then some of NXT/rcx. PF2 to anything prior? Really not

[@anthonygordon9483]

I honestly feel they need to support more types of materials besides plastic parts. You can build nearly anything but for example, its hard to integrate RC Engines into Technic and Mindstorm sets. They melt the material and the frames are too weak. Their sales are simply not high enough for the hard core enthusiast. There have been many companies that tried this engineering toy set feature and they have failed. If Lego wants to up their sales, I feel they need better materials to take on RC projects, I feel they could easily steal the RC Enthusiast community and market, and in some ways they already have. But the sets are not completely limitless because mindset and technic still technically only target teens and under. There are a lot of teen engineer geeks out there but there simply isn't enough and providing parts for people in college or for adults may make things interesting. Most of the adults that get into bigger projects grew up on legos and evolved to other things, Lego needs a way to keep even the adults and probably make sets that target older crowds. They could easily build a RC Plane set if they wanted. With providing more sturdier parts enthusiasts wouldn't need stronger technology from Lego.

[@tianxizhao4961]

They should’ve advertised it to school and have more competitions that encourage creation with this set.

[@Gzilla313]

Isn't that what the Lego First league is?

[@DOGSDOGGER]

I work in edtech. Districts don't have that kind of cash. Edu products are all about mass-deployment at a district level. Niche private schools and the holdout public school clubs here and there can't hold up a product like mindstorms, especially not with Lego's current financial model. It's a HUGE program to keep afloat; it's barely even about the plastic - which is *trivial* - it's the stuff like edu research and consulting, software dev (which is likely *not* internal), and the whammy being post-sale support at a district level. The product is also marketed and advertized completely differently than the rest of their products, with the exception being corporate development kits. They *are* advertised to schools - theyre just not *buying* them. With Lego capitalizing on a new sect of hyper-enthusiasts and in the face of a massive price-hike on an already-premium-priced product, it just doesn't make sense to pursue edu as a demographic when that division is being outperformed by easier pursuits.

[@glowytheglowbug]

@@Gzilla313 there is FLL robocup and WRO i have competed in all and they are very good

[@imaginitivity7853]

@@DOGSDOGGER except in cancelling the home product and only keeping the education version they seem to be backing the most expensive to support option. I'd almost assume that sales of the home product could subsidise the education version costs. But as I'm sure these divisions are separate, such subsidisation, even if occurring, doesn't show up in the education department's income. I will put money on this being an accountancy driven decision. It would not be the first time a good business was damaged by bad financial decisions with no wider understanding of the business they're in.

[@kentslocum]

@@Gzilla313 Agreed. Seems they should have focused on unifying everyone around the First LEGO League, by selling a full product to schools and a smaller version to individuals.

[@JakubMarous]

We used Mindstorms EV3 at programing school as an "introduction" to programing and I loved it

[@Gzilla313]

I was 10 when first Mindstorms came out. I remember an awesome Mindstorms R2D2 set. Didn't know Mindstorms was still a thing, but now that it's being discontinued I'm sad about part of my childhood going away.

[@krakentoast]

I had the ATAT ;)

[@timesnewrman]

From what I've heard, i still hope for the fifth generation ❤

[@imaginitivity7853]

One of most disappointing aspects of this is that in the latest Mindstorms programming environment you can toggle between python and block programming, so it was a useful intro/bridge into python programming. This really is one step forward, two steps back!

[@2kBofFun]

They should have included a proper C++ library for Arduino/Studio Code. Python is laughable for embedded programming. The achilles heal is probably the STM line of MCU's. Not the best series for proper USB-serial port support for programming.

[@doncourter7164]

Wow! We just purchased several Mindstorm 51515 sets for our school robotics team since we prefer it to the Spike Prime set. I can't believe LEGO decided to discontinue 51515 so soon. I thought we had many more years of support and access to additional Mindstorm products in case we needed to supplement our inventory. This is very disappointing news.

[@Thinginator]

Better look into Pybricks I guess, since that might soon be the only way to program the Mindstorms hubs.

[@fellenXD]

We used Bricx Command Center in school for programming Mindstorms. It's great if you know or want to learn C, or at least almost C.

[@user-dz5yo3cv6k]

Luckily Spike prime products are compatible with Mindstorms if you're going to need supplement to your inventory in the future

[@2kBofFun]

@@fellenXD Is that working on 51515/Spike parts?

[@TheNewFaceOfHSP]

The NXT got me seriously into robotics and programming. I grew up poor and pulled myself, my family and friends into ~100k+ across the board, because I got good at coding. The (2) Mindstorms NXT sets I ended up owning (by m parents pouring their hard work into my Christmas gifts because I wanted nothing else) definitely contributed.

[@definingslawek4731]

How did you pull your family and friends into the same income bracket as you? Very inspirational!

[@leomorris1773]

I really hope we dont loose the Mindstorms system. FLL was a huge part of growing up for me, and now im a robotics student at the university that held most of the competitions.

[@ElectricGeckos]

The only anoyance I have with the Spike Prime / Larg Hub is that the mindstorm app doesn't support my PS5 Controllers.

[@henribg1]

This is sad. I have mine in a box and have hoped...

[@sailovspider]

For me the biggest drawback is lack of official hub2hub communication for RC or complex builds. While first is prohibited at FLL competitions, multi-hub setup could be very useful and educating for students. We can re-program all hubs to PyBricks, but this approach is limited to intensive text-only coding and lack of some support from TLG (many things is undocumented or not implemented at all)

[@RacingBrick]

As I see the Pybricks team is already better at finding features and documenting them than TLG themselves

[@Wolforce]

I've wanted a Lego Mindstorms set since it came out when I was very little. Could never justify the purchase price. The question now is, should I get one since they will disappear, or should I not get one, since they will disappear?

[@ryanlajeunesse7931]

If youre still interested id check out bricklink and buy one of the older iterations. I personally bought an Robotics Invention system 2.0 on there for ~$150 and a remote that basically turns it into an rc car that works of tank controls. You might need an older computer or a vm to use the actual cd but since i have an xp and a 98 laying around it works flawlessly. I also like the RCX designwise as it just seems the most "raw lego" like yeah its technic, but technic isnt 98% of the design like in nxt or ev3. I would suggest those latter two if you want something more advanced but be forewarned last i checked they do cost more on average. The only other con with RCX era mindstorms is the wires tend to distintegrate (not the actual wire itself but the insulation around it, if its a huge deal they dont cost a huge amount to replace either on there) the other con i can think of (this one for the NXT series forwards) is that for like if you wanted to go with any expansions there isnt much in terms of just a variety of extra sensors and motors some wires and a revision for nxt 2.0 ( robot inventor has nothing really) with RCX , they have an extreme creatures expansion, a robosports expansion, a discount webcam(grainy by todays standards but usable if you want to dink around with it) , a mars rover themed pack, an accesory pack that comes with a light and the remote, an ultimate builders set (which comes with some fancy stuff like a differential , pneumatics, throwing disks and a third motor and lastly the 3rd option being the robotics discovery set. Which can be used with the RCX brick but due to its programming being integrated to the brick and not customizable youd probably want to get it after you got an rcx to add on to it as by itself its very proprietary unless you have the remote to control it. Nonsense wars did a great review on a good portion of the RCX line up if youre interested. Still waiting on him to publish the robosports one .

[@jimlewis1]

@@ryanlajeunesse7931 I agree, as with most Lego, the hardware lasts for decades. I also like the RCX, particularly that creating simple sensors using electronic components is possible. THis aspect is really missing from the later iterations IMHO.

[@LeoQKepler]

man i remember always wanting a lego mindstorms set when i was a kid i couldn't get it because it was too expensive sad to see something i wanted be discontinued

[@mr.wooper6605]

You can still buy it somewhere, but the app will not be updated anymore

[@Aussie50InspiredDavidZ]

@@mr.wooper6605 You can also still download ALL the software, except for the RCX one. For that one, I recommend you use Bricx Command Software. However, there was a youtuber on here that shows you how to use "LEGO RCX in the modern World" using Windows XP tho. if you want to use the original software.

[@jtd8719]

Can't say that I'm surprised. Lego robotics is losing out to other manufacturers/systems in the edu space, which is too bad as you can build just about any kind of mechanism using Lego. I think they (IMO foolishly) marketed and themed these sets and the software to younger primary school students, which is a shame given some of the amazing AFOL projects we have all seen. Add that they've now burned everybody who invested in Power Functions and NXT/EV3 with no backwards or forwards compatibility.

[@2kBofFun]

Totally agree. The kids focus, fugly colouring of Spike and weird part selection of Spike/FLL sets kills so much potential. Lego could have been great for students prototyping machines in the age 15-25, yet they refuse to see that.

[@geekyglen]

I can understand if you have two very similar sets, only choosing to produce one, and I can understand that they may have had more success selling to education institutions than to parents. But I just can't help but feel that there is a missed opportunity having more integration technics and mindstorms. I am sure there are more than a few people who have mindstorms and technics and have looked at integrated builds, or ways to control sets through an app on their phone.

[@thatonepossum5766]

Oh man- this sucks. I remember doing Lego League at school years ago. I didn’t get to do any programming, but it was still a fun memory. It was probably the first time I got to do anything with a robot. I remember how cool it was to watch the trials of getting it to move right, and eventually getting it to pick things up. Wish more kids would get to do that. I know there’s still the education-centric Lego robotics, but with prices going up there’s no way it’s feasible for most schools to do (not that Mindstorms was any cheaper xD).

[@diytoolbox9016]

Oh, man, I'm still owner of a RCX 1.0, I'm 31 years old now, I remember that in school I used to be in the Robotics club, using the NXT 1.0, or maybe NXT 2.0, and we went to the Lego League competition to compete with our robots, that was soo much fun. I didn't even know of this latest one, to be quite honest, I was out of the LEGO scene for about 10 to 15 years, only now I have my childhood collection back, which actually includes pieces from my moms childhood too, some really old shit in there.

[@widdomonki238]

lego has had so many variations on motorized functions it is hard to know what to get. they need to make an executive decision instead of retiring multiple workflows every other year :(

[@EricAlainDufresne]

I'm very disappointed to see the Mindstorm line disappear. I loved the EV3 and whished that Lego had improved on it instead of veering off into another direction where compatibility between sets is lacking.

[@scottish_cafe]

Looking at the availability of this set in Europe it looks like it was discontinued like a year ago. Now it is only available on the aftermarket for 3x price of its original cost ;/

[@henribg1]

see, a year later you posted your comment i got the last one from the official shop in Bulgaria, on a regular price, still exoensive. I got and small ones and still didnt opend it. Now i am searching info on what i got only to find out it is no longer supported. I finished buying it, couse i ask if there are any sets with electronics and they told me this is the one. So now i wonder shoud i open it or sell it to a coollector

[@nikolaivanis4144]

It's just a dirty sales tactic. Just think about it - robotics and smart appliances are on it's peak rise, and they decided to discontinue the product line they invented back in the day when you could only see it in movies. Many other things don't add up, but this one's enough.

[@PepijndeVos]

Wow a sad moment. I have been playing with Mindstorms since the RCX and yea... I really wish they made a unified platform and stuck with it.

[@staticbuilds7613]

Mindstorm EV3 was one of the best Lego sets I ever got, I hope they bring it back in some way in the future but with the idea of robots being less interesting to people everywhere and many popular companies investing into it already gone like Anki I guess it was only natural for others to go

[@opsisoid]

Hello, do you know how to connect new Lego Mindstorm to Wi-Fi to control it via the Internet?

[@simosivado]

Wow, that's shocking. I gave my son the 51515 for his birthday 2 years ago and he loves programming it and making up weird machine. We are using it to build a halloween decoration (including the powered up lights) at the moment and my son (now 9) just got a book for himself on Python to learn more code. So, it's really a great tool for kids to get into programming and being creative. It's a lot less hassle than the arduino (which is maybe better as he gets older). So it really fills a niche and will be very much missed....

[@RacingBrick]

Hopefully there will be some sort of replacement until 2024

[@IoannisKalyvas1]

1:34 there is also lego wedo . Question :Is it good idea to hold or to buy more lego mindstorms (2013version) to sell later?(i think right not it is not available online

[@FlyMyTurtle]

I am glad Mindstorms gets dumped into the ground, because that is where it belongs after Lego broke all compatibility and interchangibility to the NXT/EV3 generation and power functions for no benefit other than to enrich themselves with proprietary crap. Hope this e-waste never comes back from the abyss and instead custom Raspberry Pi replacements with physically compatible motors and sensor to Lego Technic take over from now on.

[@nkende]

Quite unfortunate, and seems a bit rushed too. The set was already sold out alot of the time, and I gues now it will be evern harder to get, with everyone trying to get a copy before it's discontinuation.

[@alexshepherd]

The Dacta robotics I collect from the 1990s (and the Technic Control from the 1980s) was education-only, so I guess LEGO is returning to its roots. It’s certainly a nice touch that the firmware allows use of the Mindstorms product with the education software (that used to be the case with RCX-era Mindstorms but you had to purchase the education software (Labview). Are there costs involved in using the Spike Prime software? Pybricks sounds a great solution, like NQC was for the RCX. Basically, the 51515 was a good set with a nice selection of modern pieces, so it is a loss, but the technology will live on - we’ve dealt with restricted availability in the past :)

[@eitanskital7735]

Does anybody realize whether after 2024 the mindstorms app will stop exist or just stop get supported by firmware upgrades but still will exist?

[@changyoplee5931]

My mindstorm blue hub one isn’t working :/

[@NooceneSounds]

I read the title and said "WHAT??!" out loud

[@Mocsfromscratch]

I'm so shocked that LEGO decided to discontinue the LEGO Mindstorms 51515. I'm having a feeling that LEGO might discontinue the LEGO Mindstorms product line itself.

[@RacingBrick]

That set is practically the Mindstorms product line currently

[@marslensart]

When I was in elementary school I was obsessed with Lego mindstorms. I started off with NXT 2.0 and then moved to EV3, and I still have my EV3 kit to this day. I’m just sad that Lego has made this decision. I’m going to be honest, the newest mindstorms sets (from what I’ve seen online) are less powerful than their NXT 2.0 and EV3 counterparts, but still sad to see that Lego is going to be discontinuing it.

[@mrmansir3734]

is there a limit to how many lines of code you can add to this?? also, can you code using text (typing), instead of block code? Is python the only language u can use?

[@thatbillguy5211]

I surely hope that they are to be replaced with something better, this would be the worst time for them to stop producing a robotics focused product

[@jedisith3864]

It's been way too long of a wait from when I first wanted a robot companion (1988) and they still don't have anything close. Lego actually has the best chance at this, all the buildable possibilities are there and we just need a personality/OS that fits :)

[@LiamSPC9065]

I’ve been relying so much on Mindstorms for years. I’ve always relied on making a robot to solve a Rubik’s cube, but now that it’s discontinued, and my nxt is starting to not work anymore, it’s going to be difficult to find a new LEGO brand for robots.

[@henribg1]

so it is not usable any more? only for collectors on a shelf?

[@quentindonahue9042]

I am really sad because of this LEGO Mind Storm is awesome!😢

[@Quelqu_un_9880]

In scool, we use EV3 and it’s a good base. From what I know, lego robotics competition use EV3 and, sometimes, spike or NXT. A cool thing for newer electronics could be a brushless motor.

[@l0k048]

aren't all of lego motors brushless? especifically stepper motors

[@tpobrienjr]

I am confused.

[@nikolaivanis4144]

Nothing to be confused about - it's just a dirty sales tactic. Just think about it - robotics and smart appliances are on it's peak rise, and they decided to discontinue the product line they invented back in the day when you could only see it in movies. Many other things don't add up, but this one's enough.

[@darrylbuckett5380]

All these comments should be forwarded to Lego, they need to realise their mistake, the Mindstorm brand is their most important, come on Lego get your act together. Cheers

[@bami2]

Guess I'll have to quickly get a 51515 set then to add support to my own PU control program.

[@12171010011010]

To be completely honest, *this is actually fine.* For one, since NXT, Mindstorms really wen't downhill. They started removing functionality and sensors, replacing it with gimmicks and unnecessary additions. The community surrounding the NXT set was truly inspiring and innovative, as the accurate servos and variety of sensors added a lot of programmability and flexibility. The NXT 2.0 improved the programmable brick and the light sensor, but was inferior in every other way. Then the 3.0 was just insulting to the intelligence of children, and replaced all of the customisability for RC compatibility gimmicks. The Spike is a joke. The NXT was really *a gem* of its time, and inspired thousands of teens to learn programming and engineering. It was truly educational. Lego could still make sets like this if they wanted to, but it's clear they cannot compete with how cheap microcontrollers and electronics can be, vs how expensive Lego has become. If anything, they should just focus on something like an Arduino compatible kit. For those that don't know, controllers like Arduinos are perfect for teens to get into electronics, as they are extremely easy to use, cheap, and has a large dedicated community behind it.

[@nathanl6598]

I bought the 5in1 set and it's simply awesome. Everywhere I looked nobody else seemed to own it, there was no community of people building much of anything really. A lot of people complained that it was worse than the NXT hub, for some reason. It was like people are protesting the product. Well, success everyone. If you have one of these hubs now they have been increasing in value at a steady clip.

[@veschyoleg]

I ordered 51515 as soon as I saw this video. I never had any experience with Mindstorms, but I don’t want to never ever have any experience with Mindstorms. As for the reasons… Spike Prime is more expensive than Mindstorms so why sell the same bricks and motors for less when TLG can sell them for more? 😅

[@stijnlenting]

Is it smart to still buy this set now?

[@Aussie50InspiredDavidZ]

I was thinking that too. Since production has stopped, most likely, it'll get more expensive. However, it may still be worth getting, tho. I'd definetely recommend saving up $20 a week and buying it at the end of the year. Because of this, it may actually increase in value. I may buy this kit 2-3 years down the line. Hopefully, they don't take down their software tho. That would really screw everything up. So, if you are getting it, make sure to download the software needed to make this work on their website.

[@robl39]

So what products should I buy if I want to build robots and write programs?

[@RacingBrick]

Practically any sets with a hub, check out Pybricks

[@crazybird199]

RIP old friend, one of my favorite themes.

[@Besrethen]

Woah, that's definitely not cool :( Thinking of previous generations lifespan I thought I had enough time to buy this set later when my daughter grow up a little to be more interested in something like this... Looks like the time has come 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@cismeo]

69euros for a battery .. nough said. While Lego talks about "inclusive" bla bla bla, if you do not have a Lego workshop or whatever and are not rich yet passionate to give your children education, the retail price is a clear "fk you poor people".

[@mcandrew8332]

Man i wish they had mindstorm or robotics Club at my new school

[@pwcorgi2000]

Although packaged differently, Mindstorms is educational as well. Heck, you can make any of the Lego themes educational.

[@Galaxy-oy4nj]

I hope they just want to replace the hub with a better hub with stuff we wanted(like colored display), or maybe make an upgraded EV3

[@mic8per]

Agree, they didn't give enough info about the reason. Honestly, ev3 is still better than both Spike and Robot Inventor.

[@nikolaivanis4144]

It's just a dirty sales tactic. Just think about it - robotics and smart appliances are on it's peak rise, and they decided to discontinue the product line they invented back in the day when you could only see it in movies. Many other things don't add up, but this one's enough.

[@2kBofFun]

Not only is the venerable 51515 no longer available, Lego seems to have thrown the whole robotics program in the recycling bin. Spike is braindead as well, has seen a massive price inflation and availability is near 0, also on Bricklink where prices are even higher than with Lego, which indicates Spike stuff is becoming very rare as well. It is time for education to say goodbye to LEGO.

[@nikolaivanis4144]

It's just a dirty sales tactic. Just think about it - robotics and smart appliances are on it's peak rise, and they decided to discontinue the product line they invented back in the day when you could only see it in movies. Many other things don't add up, but this one's enough.

[@Stoopidman]

So is it not eorth buying just noe?

[@jayanthacharya449]

Wonder if Lego was a company that had the largest catalog and if that might be pulling it down. While Lego Mindstorm EV3 and it's ilk are in a completely different category, but the rapidly growing popularity of boards like RaspberryPi Pico, Arduino etc, which cost a micro-tiny fraction, with individual makers and robotics enthusiasts moving to those, could be the paradigm shift that they saw coming. With large catalog comes the problem of heavy inventory, and if it is all over the place, which is what one'd need for non-educational i.e. enthusiast market, the decision could start making sense. Purely educational part of the catalog serves a more predictable and steady market perhaps.

[@p15phosphorus]

I just had a eureka moment while watching this. I didn't realise that the latest Mindstorms set and the spike prime are actually different. I thought they were simply yellow for education and blue for home/public. My school has 5 sets of Mindstorms and I can't get the Spike Prime software to talk to them. Now I get it.

[@supalognon]

Pybricks is the answer for you !

[@neuronoc.7343]

Mindstorms really peaked with EV3. As cool as 51515 was, it was so ubiquitous with Powered Up and all the other standardized lego systems that it was pretty much redundant. LEGO will probably try finding ways to recycle the Spike Prime sensors into the Powered Up system since they're similar enough. I feel like it would've been better if 51515 actually tried to one-up the EV3, not downgrade.

[@firdausbj1]

The best ever Mindstorms is the EV3. and its still is !

[@djSpinege]

i still have the original set from back in the day. sad to hear this.

[@kentslocum]

It's a sad day. Wish all of the different components and hubs were more compatible.

[@sarahgill1504]

Do you know if this applies to Lego Boost?

[@lukas_studio_brickagit]

I am also very saddened by the fact that Mindstorm is disappearing. I know that there is not much profit in mind storm area. I think that was probably the biggest reason, and it makes me a little sadder.

[@R0Sch88]

I didn't even bother with 51515 because of the ugly and simplistic design, but loved the EV3 and even bought 2 sets because it was compatible with previous NXT 2.0. I guess the end of Powered Up is also close (I give it an optimistic 2 years) because there was no new hardware released this year and the angular motor gets discontinued. Why a motor that is used in a current Technic set is also kicked out is pretty lame.

[@RacingBrick]

That motor was actually not yet used in any Technic sets

[@R0Sch88]

@@RacingBrick You're right. Thought it was the Volvo Hauler motor.

[@RacingBrick]

@@R0Sch88 regardless, all these motors and other peripherals scattered among the different sets and themes should be working with all hubs, so ideally they all should be available for purchase separately

[@Dewebje]

😱 I remember trying the first set at legoland Windsor and later buying it. A really wow. But perhaps a little difficult for Children. So they introduced another robot series. I dont know. But this is sad news. Even while I did not use it for years.

[@generalgrafx]

Within a few years the Control+-app will also be discontinued, reducing all the Control+ dependent LEGO sets to an ultra expensive pile of plastic.

[@RacingBrick]

Not exactly, there are already multiple alternative apps to control those :)

[@generalgrafx]

​@@RacingBrick That might be, but even these alternatives will only function until your Android or iOS device goes obsolete or the 3rd party developer decides to no longer update the app. Other than with old WIndows PC applications, once pulled from the app store by the developer, there is no way to ever download the app again, not even from an alternative source, and install it (again) on your mobile device. My point is, I have an rc car that I bought in the late 80’s which still fully functions today, almost 35 years later. I don’t see that happening for the LEGO Control+ sets.

[@RacingBrick]

@@generalgrafx I can play Commodore 64 games from more than 35 years ago on my smartphone. If there's a demand, the sets will be playable.

[@Closestwinter]

Does the lego mindstorms work without the app?

[@RacingBrick]

It does work with alternative apps

[@Closestwinter]

Which apps?

[@RacingBrick]

@@Closestwinter you can use Pybricks with it for example

[@Closestwinter]

@@RacingBrick ok thanks

[@PatriceGremeau]

I only got the Boost Creative Toolkit which I kind of enjoyed (with additional books), but the Robot Inventor set has been on my wishlist for a long time and never got around to buy it. It's been sold out ('temporarily sold out') for a while now, but even if it comes back, it looks like once the app is gone, it will be fully dead anyway? This makes your previous Powered Up video even more upseting, the one where their roadmap was really just some documentation changes and vague promises...

[@austinmurdock1945]

Hello I was wondering if and when your gonna build the new razor crest set

[@RacingBrick]

Not anytime soon I think, I have plenty of stuff to build and show for the following 2 months so maybe next year

[@diprosla592]

Hi, Where i can buy more motors from Power Functions? I wished they wouldn t ended manifacturing PF (i forgot to buy them before they removed them from store in 2019) :(

[@system11yt]

Used, some new (very expensive) or do what I recently did and just buy clones. Mould King seem to make the better ones.

[@RacingBrick]

You can check Bricklink

[@tobo5757]

Toypro

[@clopec]

I have been waiting for my son to be old enough, justifying buying into Mindstorms and use it as an introduction to coding. Was a kid myself when the original Mindstorms was launched, but never got it back then. Sad. But hopefully there will be something exciting, fitting the same niche to replace it.

[@marcelmeyer983]

Whilst Lego is figuring out their future avenue in robotics, you could check out Fischertechnik. A different brick system, but they also sport very capable robots.

[@pixelcatgames208]

that means if i have the app downloaded can i still use it after 2024?

[@RacingBrick]

You can use the app, not sure about the downloadable content in it

[@chrismcbricker1765]

The failure of the new mindstorm is the electronics are not Lego compatible with 9v. I spent a lot of money on my collection the past 31yrs and will not cast out my old brick for something new, and i knew Lego will never support any software long term. I am making my self loud and clear that I'm going with new brick brands and company's if electronics are not 9v compatible. I still have some of my first bricks after 31yrs.

[@Bricksley]

In my opinion this is next step to comonalize these elements from different themes (C+, Powered Up, Mindstorm etc.) to ONE system. For a lot people is hard understand/find information that the different elements are in one hardware and mayby connect self mutually and programed. Now we have a lot of theme's name, apps, etc., but someone (through years) forgot to say this is one system, I think that it was great misatke on the start... maybe time to rework this?

[@RacingBrick]

There was a promise at the beginning, Powered Up was supposed to be the app that supports all compatible hardware components. We're still waiting that to happen... But honestly at this point I'm not sure if the effort should go into this or creating something brand new that corrects the flaws and limitations of the current system.

[@Bricksley]

@@RacingBrick Personally, I found myself faster in the Mindstorms app than PoweredUp. At this point, the most important thing is that they should combine everything into one whole - the new system has great potential, although not appreciated by everyone, and I think that this is due to the current inconsistency / mess. So "something new" instead of PoweredUp also seems more sensible to me, do it right away. PoweredUp's bad reputation would be harder to get rid of. I just hope they will not change the hardware completely, Mindstorms / Spike 6-port HUB is more interesting for me and so far I have had a lot of future in MOCs.

[@moritzathms8185]

I have both kits, MINSTORMS Robot Inventor and SPIKE Prime, the LEGO MINSTORMS 10.4.2 APP works on both hubs. Including the (Bluetooth) remote control feature, that requires a little coding. It's a great "Real World" application for my 8th grade engineering students. Drive to a staged location and then execute a program, awesome. As a teacher, I'm glad to see the educational emphasis by LEGO, the possibilities and applications are endless. But the Robot Inventor kit is far superior when being used as a mechanical engineering tool. Must be a $$$ thing.

[@-WandreW-]

Mindstorm is how I learned my first programming language

[@imaginitivity7853]

And by the way, did you notice the very odd reissue of the spike prime expansion set. The added part was a board to allow microbit or RPi to be attached to the model. I thought this was a weird choice given this would obviate the need for Lego's own smart brick. Who knows the rationale behind that one

[@RacingBrick]

I don't think LEGO would try to lock people to use their own solutions, especially in Education. Seems to be a great addition, although I'm not sure how many people will actually use it

[@romankristofic3208]

I can still buy 51515 today for 250 EUR - do you think I should do it? There is no risk that I won't be able to use the robots after 2024 considering that Mindstorms ends and customer support will be zero. In my opinion, Lego cannot afford to sell a non-functional lego set in the future, and the price of 250 euros per box is tempting - also considering that it is probably the last set - that mindstorms ever produced.

[@RacingBrick]

The hardware will work with alternative applications like pybricks, so if you can live with that it's a good deal

[@romankristofic3208]

@@RacingBrick Given that it is the last series from the Mindstorms workshop, I will go for it, a year or two after it is discontinued, it will still be sold for 500 euros more. I'd rather buy it for the kids now for 250. Thanks

[@jenesuispluslameme]

I am interested in learning to build robots. Can you give some tips for newbie starter - thanks

[@strawberry4450]

I had mindstorms ev3 but was looking to get a new system for my kids and I had no idea mindstorms was discontiuned in 2024. I was excited to see the latest. What the heck they dropped it totally? Even mindstorms 2020 sounded silly... a unified system that can continue growing and expanding... i don't get the issue with this.

[@lerbyn]

That sucks, mindstorm is what got me into programming which now 10+ years later is my proffesion

Hello, I've just bumped into this when I was searching something for my 7 years old nephew. I would like give him some tool to make his creation more alive. Remote controller, motor to move forward, backward, motor for turning. Basically a car. If I can connect to tablet to program it thats a plus. Thanks.

[@RacingBrick]

It is a good start, but you need to know that this product is discontinued and the app support will be only kept alive until the end of next year

[@ivanarsenijevic]

As an owner of EV3, I consider current Mindstorms as a a major step down. So I decided never to buy it. I know of other people with similar opinion. Maybe there are enough of us who think the same to draw the sales of current Mindstorms down - that would be a reason enough for Lego to stop selling it.

[@michaelroyames]

Was literally about to buy the Mindstorms product for my son. So sad to see such an excellent product get pulled. I've already got the Boost set, the the Mindstorms is/was definitely a step up in sophistication. Can't understand why Lego doesn't offer the Spike products on their site... very strange and counterproductive.

[@RacingBrick]

Some Spike products are available, but not all individual parts like on the Education page

[@imaginitivity7853]

I really wonder at many of the decisions coming out of Lego these days. I have a bad feeling the bean counters have more say that the actual visionaries and creatives these days. Having said that, the division between the education and home arms of Lego have seemed to me for a long time to be antagonistic towards each other. Home sets with broad capability were not well supported by the education arm (Boost in particular) meaning a lost opportunity for first time Lego robot owners to actually develop learning of languages beyond the Lego graphic interface. Education sets, requiring a big investment are out of budget reach of many of their intended users (in UK at least). They're obviously resource demanding from Lego to create as well. PF2 proliferation means the product portfolio is very large, but as you say the technic hub as supplied by Lego does not support on board storage of programmes. So as things stand, for the home market, there will no longer be a Mindstorms product??? That would be a travesty. Mindstorms, was an entire pedagogical ethos. Whatever rebranded name/capability comes next, the brand developers need first to reread Peypert's book. Otherwise it will be just another robot toy and will disappear into the very wide market of these. Not for the first time it looks like it will be down to the third party support, like pfbricks to ensure we don't soon own expensive paperweights!

[@imaginationsquare]

The prices on Brinklink will Spike... Right as I need so many of them!

[@tofuachoo]

I actually have the old version, the EV3 brick. it is now extinct in the lego sets, the new one is nice but i think in my opinion its hard to program.

[@enricobarbera4964]

they can make more money with schools and institution than private. And yes, spike prime is pretty the same set, with less pieces but more expensive

[@iuter87]

possible scenario: 1) mindstorms hub V5 2) bring mindstorm hardware on technic hub cause this is a fail (only 4 ports and not personalizable codes as the powered up works) anyway the question is: buy the set 51515 before the end or skip this and hope in something best (maybe in 2025?) ?

[@elliejohnson2786]

Sounds like a business decision made entirely with finances and employee management in mind, not end-products. Not the end of the world, but certainly not a favourable decision for end-users.

[@pablesm]

If Robot Inventor is 51515, the next Mindstorms set will be 71717-2, since 71717-1 was a Ninjago set. There are already sets that share numbers (6200, 7170)

[@Mocsfromscratch]

I was really expecting the next LEGO Mindstorms set after the 51515 set. But after I saw this video, I don't really expect the next LEGO Mindstorms generation in the future.

[@TheDenyingDutchman]

I love Mindstorms! I own most Mindstorms sets, except 51515! I didn't like it, I didn't like the name as if it was "the ultimate" Mindstorms set, and I definitely didn't like the lack of backwards compatibility! Lego f#cked up, they wanted a whole new set designed for children, while the majority of Mindstorms enthusiasts are adult!

[@otaciliodearaujo]

Is this a Mindstorms move only or Spike prime can be reaching its end of life also?

[@RacingBrick]

It's only about Mindstorms currently

[@jimlewis1]

I think Lego would really have a mutiny on their hands if all the schools suddenly found their less than 2 year old investmentin Spike Prime was a waste

[@censorbleep3018]

I was just thinking of expanding into some robotic aspects to my city . . .

[@Kelkschiz]

I think the smartphone will take over the function of the Mindstorm brick. That is the way this news makes sense to me. After all, you don't have to sell a minicomputer with Mindstorms when 99% of us have a much more powerful computer in our pocket. The only thing left would be to recreate the full Mindstorms software for smartphones, which brings us to the developers that are now not working on Mindstorms anymore. So my best guess is that everything will be consolidated in a more versatile version of Power-up. This also makes sense at a macro level, just ask yourself how many functions that we used to have separate devices for are now performed by an app on our smartphones... The list is long...

[@RacingBrick]

I don't think moving computing to the smart device is a "smart" move. In case of Mindstorms itself the difference is quite visible, there's a significant lag if the code is running in the app and not on the device.

[@Kelkschiz]

@@RacingBrick I made no judgment on my prediction. I just think that they will be doing it like that. I am not sure if the lag you described is an inevitable consequence of running software on a smartphone. There are many applications that run on smartphones without any perceivable lag. Instead, it would not surprise me if it was the Mindstorm brick in the equation that was causing the lag you mention. With that component eliminated...

[@RacingBrick]

@@Kelkschiz you still need a bridge between motors, sensors and the smart device. If you run the code on a hub that is connected directly to the peripherals, everything is running locally and you know exactly the hardware you are using and its abilities. There are thousands of different smart devices with very different abilities, it is extremely difficult to provide the same speed and user experience on a $100 smartphone versus a $1000 smartphone, and you still have the additional lag of the wireless connection.

[@Kelkschiz]

@@RacingBrickAnd yet, all Bluetooth headphones I've ever used ran without lag. More relevant perhaps, the same goes for the remote control apps that control Sbrick and Buwizz. And that while the smartphones I owned have been in the $100-200 range. I am pretty sure the more expensive smartphones will be fine as well. We should not forget that all these thousands of different smartphones use standard protocols for communication. Seeing as this is becoming a Mindstorms vs smartphone debate. I would also like to point out a big benefit of using a smartphone as the brain. I loved my EV3 brick, but it was big, heavy, and expensive. I've built some LEGO sailboats, in which I would have loved to have used it. But it was too heavy and even if it wasn't, I wouldn't have dared take the risk (pond waves are awfully big for a LEGO boat). I ended up using an Sbrick. Part of me still wants to make a program that can sail autonomously. But I've heard that you can program Sbricks these days, so perhaps will try that the next time I feel the urge to sail with LEGO. The EV3 brick as lovely as it was, was just too big and heavy to incorporate in many of my builds. if you reduce the hub to a simple dumb Bluetooth transceiver and leave the thinking to the smartphone, the smaller size and weight will make it practical for a lot more builds.

[@osmanpasha_diy]

Then you can forget about time-critical applications like self-balancing or line-following robots. There needs to be a tight and predictable timing of "read sensor -- compute -- actuate" loop that bluetooth cannot provide. Actually, it's not only bluetooth but all the levels of abstractions that would be in play on a smartphone. On top of that, none of smartphone OSes are real-time.

[@kiro-fo9qg]

They were too expensive for the average American Household.

[@Phoenix0224]

Bright side: still thousands of possibility’s with all of them, so hat if robot inventor is gone, still got spike prime and ev3, ev3 is best for big builds and is most efficient. Nxt is from older times and ev3 would prob be better