The End of Supervised Maintenance

[@cgtbrad]

As someone who has participated in assisted annuals my entire life - first on my father's aircraft and now on my own aircraft, THANK YOU for pushing back on the Moss LOI. Not only do I enjoy the satisfaction of turning wrenches, it's the only way I can afford to own an aircraft.

[@ronallen8897]

If am paying by the hour for aircraft maintenance at A & P rates (shop rate), shouldn't I be entitled to have the work done by a Certified A & P? Please explain why I should be charged $140.00 per hour for an uncertified $15.00 per hour "mechanical assistant"?

[@aviate68]

very informative as usual!

[@crosbymason1790]

Mike thank you for all the info and the willingness to fight back!

[@trentcarlson4857]

I remember back in the 90’s a customer asked me to take a test flight with him. I said oh no I don’t fly in anything I worked on. The look on his face was priceless!!!!

[@TheReadBaron91]

Depends, if I annual it sure I’ll go with yah. If not and it’s a turd, I’m not flying with you just because I changed a bulb.

[@trentcarlson4857]

@@venutoa Of course I flew with him, after we all stopped laughing 😆

[@turninmonyin2noise978]

The FAA needs a serious case of DOGE to get rid of all the job protecting beurocracts that have no idea how America is supposed to function. A retired FSDO boss slipped the lip when he stated, " I told my people." DONT SIGN ANYTHING WE DON'T WANT TO GET SUED!" Alas, that's what's wrong with America.!

[@harrydecker9159]

Great to see common sense prevail. Thanks for noticing, making people aware, and redirecting this bureaucratic blunder.

[@LuigiBarbano]

Why the hell someone asks bureaucrats to clarify grey areas??!! Grey areas are what saves us from bureaucrats... I know, I live in Italy!

[@Ayodehi]

I'm nearing the end of my apprenticeship.. the idea that my IA has to stand next to me while I do my 1,000th oil change is hilariously absurd. Are you telling me I have to go for my practicals without having ever done any task on my own ever.... we solo pilots as early as 5-10 hours of training!!!!

[@dougmackenzie5976]

You don't need an IA to stand next to you. You need a certified A&P mechanic. The fact you don't know this is an indication you need supervision. A lot of what goes on in aviation maintenance involves knowing the rules and regulations. You should know by now that you only need an A&P and not an A&P with an IA to certify your work.

[@Ayodehi]

@@dougmackenzie5976I work under an IA and have done so for several years. This is a comment on the absurdity of the interpretation not a statement of how the system works. You can chill and stop making assumptions.

[@dougmackenzie5976]

@@Ayodehi: You need a serious dose of humility, son. I hope it does not come at someone else's expense. You're a newbie. Try to learn. Pay attention. You don't know anything yet. My brother, a 50 year DME told all his students that your license is a license to LEARN, because you do not, and will not, ever, know everything.

[@dougmackenzie5976]

@@Ayodehi, I have almost 50 years in the field. I can already tell your arrogance is going to get you in trouble.

[@trentcarlson4857]

@@dougmackenzie5976 And that is the best advise and mindset to have. I used to work Ga and the airlines A&P and R&E Now lineman/trouble shooter and let me tell you can never stop learning something new.

[@gcarter1062]

The Chief Council is giving a literal interpretation and demonstrates his unqualified interpretation of what mechanics do. As a Pilot-Owner, my philosophy is that I trust my life with my mechanics work. I am not worried with the apprentice's work knowing that my A&P says it's good work. Much work on updating the Regs is needed.

[@GoodHare]

I am an aircraft maintenance technician here in Kenya without a licence. I have participated in maintenance in 3 different companies as an intern. There are bare no opportunities to gain experience

[@GoodHare]

Would really like to get the FAA A&P in the US

[@HairHelmet]

FAA attorneys interpreted the wording literally as they should have to protect themselves. Solution is to update the regulation to keep up with technology.

[@dougmackenzie5976]

As a supervisor, I have to sign off the work, so I ALWAYS ensure the work was done correctly and knowing my ticket (or maybe my freedom) is at stake, I take my duties as seriously as is possible. I've written myriad assembly/disassembly/modification procedures for the GE90 high bypass turbofan engine and we always included inspection points that required a disinterested supervisor to inspect before proceeding further. We based our assembly procedures on the USAF Technical Order system.

[@ChristopherLee08]

I am glad this was not only clarified but also on the conservative side.

[@billbrasher3437]

This MOSS with the FSDO was likely flexing. The interpretation was likely resulting in a challenge as a result for some mechanic Moss had his radar on. The stay will help if the person knows about it. There is a bigger “rest of the story” here.

[@PatrickDuffy-u3s]

I'm just curious, how many aircraft mishaps are due to incorrect maintenance done by unsupervised non-A&P mechanics? I'm guessing the answer is virtually zero.

[@TheReadBaron91]

Local no cert guy on the field somehow didn’t hook up a piston pin, no clue why the rated guy wasn’t watching that portion of it. Big bang upon start up with a hole in the case. Owner was a piece of work too, wanted the shop I worked for (not the offending shop) to lie to the insurance company as his prop was tired out and needed overhaul and to say it was due to that….

[@dougmackenzie5976]

Very hard to identify. Some 13% of mishaps are maintenance-related. As most employers do not employ uncertificated mechanics, virtually ALL maintenance is done by certificated mechanics. Regardless of who does the work, it must be signed off by a certificated mechanic who is authorized to return the aircraft to service.

[@kenrobba5831]

There are some poorly maintained machines but nothing compares to doctors’ involved in incidents; as there are no accidents per the dictionary definition.

[@lifeflightunlimitedblu-deu1592]

This is a direct result of the oversensitivity towards “remote work” arrangements - there’s a concerted effort across many industries and Government to reverse remote work arrangements adopted during the pandemic out of necessity to avoid the abuse by some workers, particularly government workers who have not returned to work and are deliberately circumventing work from office arrangements to perform required tasks that might be better performed collaboratively in the work setting. The bottom line is: are things being done(supervised) to the level of output needed to achieve production goals (productivity) and are they being done to the standards set (quality). And is there an opportunity to have those levels measured, verified and checked. If so, then remote vs physical supervision becomes a matter of personal execution philosophy given assigned accountability. Get it done and get it done right and you should be fine there’s a happy medium here.

[@RonGlasgow-s7l]

The FAA attorneys decide on the perceived facts by the rule of law based on safety. The FAA administration makes the final policy decision. Anyone, that has standing and even without a FAA Far citation, can go to a court of equity and ask for advisory decision. Amicus briefs would be welcomed by the court to see how experts argue in behalf of the cause. It is all about 14th amendment concerns. Safety issues will be the leading facor in the decision.

[@jeepjeffy04]

Unfortunately the FAA like the BATFE (ATF) has been allowed to run wild and unsupervised for the past many decades. They have developed the bad habit (because the people and the rest of the government had allowed it) of making their own laws, enforcing those laws, and dealing out the repercussions of those laws. It is a slap in the face to the American people that they are supposed to be working for and is absolutely disgusting. Hopefully this comes to an end sooner rather than later.

[@tomdchi12]

The initial question from Moss appeared to potentially open the door to operations where the certificated mechanic could be located remote from where the actual work was happening. That might allow for a business where a tiny handful (or only one) actual A&Ps supervise a large number of "apprentices" while sitting at a computer clicking through images or "zoom" chatting. I think the lawyer at the FAA overreacted. I very much do not want a shop that never or rarely has a certificated mechanic getting hands on with the aircraft being maintained so it's appropriate to shut down that concept. But, of course, the lawyer's knee-jerk reaction about being there to intervene if a mistake might happen was absurd and not in line with either the plain reading of the regulation or the time-proven effective current implementation.

[@TheReadBaron91]

One A&P and multiple uncertified people are a non-mechanical minded repair station owners wet dream. Worked for one RS that the owner didn’t even know what a torque wrench was and every decision made was purely profit motivated. Of course money makes business go, but that led to us being treated like poo.

[@raffly4449]

In the bureaucratic world as well as the lawyer world there is NO room for common sense.

[@olympiashorts]

It’s disconcerting to hear that FSDO inspectors were “licking their chops “ in anticipation of violating mechanics. Why in the world would they have that kind of attitude? Were they somehow aware of shoddy maintenance that had been going on unsupervised and they looked forward to preventing injuries and deaths that resulted from these issues or is this simply a game to them and they look forward to making their jobs more interesting?

[@venutoa]

Thanks Mike for all your hard work. 2 years of taxpayer dollars paid to high dollar lawyer. to review something that should have taken 24 hrs. They will take another 2 years of taxpayer dollars yo review the stay.....and not talk to us pilots and mechanics before wasting time. Unbelievable

[@LimeyTX]

Funny how the FAA lawyers think it’s ok for them to issue a written opinion on something without going to every shop to see how the rule was practically being implemented. I guess a lawyer can sign off on stuff remotely. By their own logic they should hand deliver the decision to every A&P/IA in the country.

[@tomcoryell]

Mike Patsy’s plane went over 400mph. Don’t know his cruise speed.

[@pharmakon6]

This idiotic Interpretation was the final straw in my decision to step away from Certificated plane ownership and move to Experimental. Especially as a hands-on plane owner.

[@ottob.884]

experimental is the way. I guess you can build A/P hours this way as long as an A/P was supervising

[@chriswilcox9650]

When a potential DIE attorney hired flips the game board upside down

[@ottob.884]

DEi fasho

[@RonGlasgow-s7l]

The FAA is actually your friend, otherwise some would ask the baby sitter to help work on his airplane while he looks at her pretty legs. It is the same theory as church boys singing in the choir, they just want a cheap thrill.😢

[@ottob.884]

You drunk?

[@RonGlasgow-s7l]

@ottob.884 it is Friday night....early celebration for Monday

[@ottob.884]

@@RonGlasgow-s7l My Man!! Daddy's home

[@RonGlasgow-s7l]

Some of these issues are raised by book sellers and pod casters because of advertising dollars paid to person raising these issuues in the public venue. It is not unusual for a yubtuber to make 6 figures on these programs. Follow the money trail!😂 Thats why they want you to hit the subscribe or thumbs up icon. Its all about money😮