The end of the road for Onto. What happened?

Very sad news this week. EV subscription service Onto, which regular viewers of this channel will know we've been customers of for a while, have entered administration.
Here's what happened, what I think caused the problems, and what's next for Onto subscribers?
If you want to hear more about what happened with Onto (and how it could affect the whole used EV market), my friend ‪@NicolasRaimo‬ has made a fascinating video. He's a car dealer so knows his stuff! • 8500 Used Electric Car...
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Chapters:
00:00 - Onto is no more
03:31 - Used EV prices: great for you; bad for Onto
04:11 - Interest rates, Tesla, clickbait media
08:14 - What next?
11:14 - What will we do?

[@MrEV]

If you want some more in-depth info about what happened at Onto, watch this from EV Nick (Nick Raimo). He's a car dealer so knows his stuff: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4XTdJt_ra-Ao80

[@dreamsofhaegum]

I’ve been using ONTO for nearly 3 years and am sad to see their collapse. I’ve registered to purchase our current car and really hope I get the opportunity. Keep up the good work Andrew.

[@MrEV]

I'm glad you've enjoyed Onto for so long and do hope you can find a suitable alternative.

[@ambekars]

I’ve also been with Onto for a couple of years now - are they offering their vehicles to customers ?

[@nicholasellam3282]

I too am saddened by this news. I have been using ONTO for two years and kept the same car for the whole period. ONTO treated me really well giving a small discount on the monthly fee as the car was one of the older ones in the fleet, and allowing me to retain inclusive charging with Instavolt and Shell for as long as I kept the same vehicle. That was a really sweet deal. For me, I didn't want to take the risk of buying an EV and then being left with a vehicle that had fallen behind technological advances, so effectively I passed that risk on to ONTO. Like you I really feel for the people throughout the organisation who must be worried about their future, but also because I felt they were really invested in the concept and the company. I wish them all the best.

[@RichardBrooklyn]

If onto always needed external funding to keep going then it was always going to end this way, eventually.

[@goesuptoeleven]

That's simply not true. That's why VC exists. To fund companies before they become profitable.

[@RichardBrooklyn]

@@goesuptoeleven that's why I used the word "always"

[@stevecagle8002]

Love this video !!! Great job Sorry about Onto

[@leejordanful]

Thanks Andrew. Interesting times. Obviously Onto's business model collapsed. As someone else suggested, try contacting the press office for car companies, dealerships etc, and try to get some press cars. Other KZbinrs seem to do it ok. I love your channel so keep going!

[@michaelgoode9555]

We wanted to use ONTO to try a few EV's before actually choosing which to buy. The two things which did not work for us was 1: the cars advertised were not available and 2: every time I opened the website the fees and charges had gone up, again. Nice idea but just didn't work for us.

[@bdeithrick]

Yeah but you didn’t. Why they went bust

[@DJ-um8qw]

I had the same experience. I tried several times to use ONTO, but couldn't the vehicles I was interested in were just not available.

[@octarinehk]

A business model that worked at 0.25% interest rates and doesn't work at 5%+

[@FactsnotFiction555]

Citroen eC4 Shine Plus.. I know because I have one and it's brilliant.. so comfortable and efficient. Hope you find another supplier soon so you can carry on the good work.. oh and best wishes to you and yours

[@bigbambi2725]

I am with onto and have been with them for a year and loved the flexibility of their subscription model so much… I’ve just cancelled my subscription on my ID3 as I didn’t want to risk losing a potential months worth of money. I have just signed up for an Ioniq 5 on Hyundai’s subscription service, hence the reason for watching your videos! I am like a little school boy and counting down the days! Like your style btw ;)

[@GoGreenAutos]

Its amazing how much money was invested into this company. I'm baffled at how this seems to be the way to run a business now. I guess its the 'grow big quick, then sell up' idea.

[@robthomas7232]

Boom or bust with someone else's money isk?

[@gavjlewis]

Well that kind of works as that's how EVEZY became ONTO! 😂

[@rivergladesgardenrailroad8834]

It is indeed. Another get rich quick scheme unfortunately.

[@0-Will-0]

Leasing a second hand ev is something I’d like to hear more about.

[@mattlyons2802]

I think Hippo leasing do used EV leasing.

[@danielwalls5150]

Octopus EV now do that.

[@decimal1815]

I think their lease periods are 3 years, and I can't see any used EVs on the web site? Would be good to offer short-term lease periods for testing and trips. @@danielwalls5150

[@WillemvandenEnde]

Arval does as well

[@ambekars]

Select Car Leasing also do it

[@UloPe]

Have you considered going directly to the manufacturers / importers and asking for press cars (to keep doing reviews of different cars I mean)? 25k subscribers should be big enough that they don’t dismiss you out of hand…

[@DSTWizz]

Thanks, Andrew, and good luck with whatever comes next. Always love your output. It's tough out there in the EV world with so much misinformation being pumped out by the outlets you mention (and not only about EVs 😮!)

[@12alocin]

Ah, the "Misinformation" angle. If you don't agree with an opinion then it's "Misinformation".

[@potter2702]

We've just bought 18 month old Zoe ZE50 with Rapid Charge for a great price, its allowed us to get rid of our last ICE, my wife loves it.

[@MrEV]

Congratulations! What a great car.

[@1mw2mam]

Great video - I was looking into onto as a result of your videos and got the ‘no cars available’ message. I used a company’ EVision’ to take short term rentals across a range of ev cars from bmw i3, Mercedes, ioniq5 (with towbar) - while awaiting my Enyaq 80x which finally arrived 18 months after the order- love it btw. Was going to go for subscription for 2nd car for school drop offs etc - looks like 2nd hand market might be the place to go.

[@cez8017]

It is very really when I completely agree with someone about EV. This is one of those cases. Keep doing your great work. It is a pleasure to listen to you.

[@metalhead2550]

Hey Andrew, regarding the anti-ev rhetoric, have you seen the Stop Burning Stuff announcement? They're holding a free event in Westminster where they want EV drivers to help tackle this

[@MrEV]

I have! I'm hoping to be there.

[@metalhead2550]

@@MrEV Great, I hope you enjoy putting some EV lies to rest!

[@avidviewer1]

Very interesting, Andrew. Thanks. Sorry this has happened for you. Best of luck with whatever comes next (I'm sure we'll all be watching). Perhaps this is just the time to start a 'Living with Mrs EV' channel 😂🤣😂

[@kathrynmoll86]

Thanks for straightening out a slew of misconceptions and viral misinformation regarding the perks and positives of the EV.

[@mco6968]

I couldn't agree more with you about all the misinformation being spread around on EVs. Almost sick of hearing allways the same silly arguments against them by so many.

[@bryandavies6074]

From the Zinoviev Letter, through "Gestapo on the streets if Labour win", via Hillsborough and Brexit, the UK press has a long pedigree of lying.

[@ohyesitsme]

I can see how Onto was useful to you as a KZbin EV blogger which enabled you to have a different car on a regular basis but not everyone wants to change their car so frequently and at the prices they are charging I guess it wouldn't work for most people. Looks like you are in a Citroen EC4

[@wgemini4422]

Good for car buyers who want to try out the cars first I would imagine.

[@ohyesitsme]

@@wgemini4422 Ever thought of going to the dealer?

[@wgemini4422]

@@ohyesitsme So far all of them have said no to a two month test drive. :D Let alone 2 months in the summer and another 2 months in the winter to see how an EV would behave under different weather conditions.

[@MrEV]

I've had a lot of comments from people who used Onto to test cars for a while before committing to a long lease (or purchase), as well as others who used Onto for a much longer period and enjoyed the flexibility. I've also had comments from people who've regretted getting their EV and being stuck in such a long lease! Onto would have been perfect for them. My friend would be a good example. When she was looking to get an EV, I told her to go for a Niro or Kona at the time as they have such good range and she wanted to drive to Germany. She ignored me and went for the e-2008 as she preferred the look of it. Almost three years into the lease she's now looking at... the Kona and Niro and has been terrified to do any long journeys in the e-2008. So yes, Onto wouldn't work for anyone but I still think subscriptions had their place. (And well done with the guess of car!)

[@Netbookgeek]

That's a Citroen e-C4 you are sitting in. I used to own one and loved it.

[@MrEV]

Well done!

[@gavjlewis]

(Following on from the conversation on Bjorns channel comments the other day) I also think another factor that hasn't been mentioned is the uptake in business was artificially high with people taking subscriptions while they were waiting for new cars to be built (as a stop gap). These people have their cars now and for many models the wait times has dropped.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Left a comment yesterday but seems to have disappeared. Great video and explanation of what's happening to ONTO - I would have liked to tried a few EVs out before settling on one - oh well... 😞

[@SteveMorton]

Many years ago, Legal and General used to be a big seller of second hand fleet cars, lots of Ford Cortinas yes that shows how long ago that was!

[@DavidPlayfair]

That is a real shame.

[@dougowt]

I was with Evezy before they became ONTO and they supplied my first EV a 2018 Renault Zoe for £289 a month all in. I had 3 Zoes with them, they replaced the first one because I was putting a lot of miles on it. The second one got hit from behind, when someone wrote their Audi A4 off on the Zoe. I did drive that Zoe for another two weeks, before they were able to swap it. And I then ran the 3rd ONTO Zoe until I bought my own 2013 Zoe. So 3½ years in all, with barely a glitch. And very cheap motoring. It is sad to see them go, especially when it looks like it was down to reasons beyond their control. Fingers crossed someone can salvage what is left, as it was a good service and I liked all the people I spoke to at the company.

[@roderickmain9697]

Sad to hear about ONTO. Looked them up when you "first" mentioned them and they sounded good. But I'd already bought my Tesla so I thought worth keeping an eye on ...just in case the wife wanted her own car. As for the media ... the newspapers you mentioned to seem to have dragged people off the streets to do reporting and the concept of journalism - particularly the investigative type - seems to have gone out the window in favour of creating outrageous stories to enrage the gullible and get the clicks. (Not just EV stories ...). I used to deliver papers years ago and in those far off days the stories bore a passing semblance to accuracy and the truth. (Compare same stories across newspapers). These days I think even infants would struggle to think some of the stuff was not a fairy story.

[@rivergladesgardenrailroad8834]

indeed

[@mozzaev]

OntO was my gateway into EV's having has the Ioniq, ID.3's and the worst car the Mokka, couldnt fault the service, the support and more importantly the Community Forum, which even though I move to a Salary Sacrificed car, was still somewhere full of awesome people and lots of EV and fleet experiences

[@royd63uk]

Good video, Citroen EC4

[@crumbschief5628]

I'm not surprised onto struggling, used EV price deprecation and energy cost increases must have hurt. I was pleased that they went to a no charging included but it was pricey

[@itmkoeln]

Found your channel through the alfgorythm From someone who thinks about buying a CCS DC equipped used Renault Zoe . The high clickbait of proICE articles and news stories... Is high over here in Germany as well... When the cargoship transoorting ice, plugins and evs caught on fire they were quick to claim (unsupstanciated as we nnow know the EVs are mostly intact... Making it pretty unlikely they are the reason). The update about the mostly intact EVs never reached the same attention...

[@Zimpaz]

Had a great chat with a lady from Onto at Fully charged live this year. We even won a Onto branded Hoodie (collectors item??)! Sad to see them go

[@AdrianNelson1507]

E-C4! Had one of those 😂 comfy.

[@shithead4767]

What we're they thinking charging those amounts

[@goesuptoeleven]

I bought 1YO e208 for just over 17k last month. After checking the documentation, it was sold originally by ONTO.

[@dmn1000000]

a lot of used Renault Zoes, Vauxhall Corsa-e and Mokka-es are ex Onto cars. The dealers are having a field day

[@ISuperTed]

I’ve got one on a company lease. Lovely car. When the lease finishes I’m in 2 minds whether to get another company one or just buy a used EV. TBH I like the sound of an almost new e208 (or similar) for £17k - it would be so cheap to run and unlikely to heavily depreciate from that point.

[@goesuptoeleven]

@@ISuperTed So far, we are very happy. Did 900 miles already.

[@adrianupnorth]

Quite a few car clubs are finding it difficult at the moment as well. Less cash about and uncertainty about the future is having an impact. Good to see a future challenge Andrew. Used EV purchase for £10k. What could you get - just a thought.

[@MrEV]

We won’t go quite that low but not far off!

[@rivergladesgardenrailroad8834]

Get a KONA EV mate.

[@iantaylor1172]

I just traded in my 20 plate , 20k miles ionq for £12k . So £10k decent used car is a real prospect now.

[@feline-fox]

We've just bought a 3 yr old Leaf for £13k there isn't really much about for £10k or under unless you are looking at the OG versions of Leaf or Zoe. @@iantaylor1172

[@kjh789az]

Thanks for following up your support for Onto, Andrew. Coverage which is strangely absent from other EV YT channels. An alternative to add to your post-Onto suggestions is join an EV car club if one exists in your neighbourhood and you don't drive much. BTW the cost of charging publicly, especially with Big Oil chargers such as Shell, is getting silly, even allowing for the equally silly structuring of UK electricity pricing. 85p per Kw?! No thanks.

[@ISuperTed]

I had a good look at the car you are in and have concluded - it’s a red one!

[@MrEV]

Well done!

[@davidcardus9088]

Thats tragic :-(

[@judebrown4103]

Oh thats a shame, I hadn't heard this. We've always been nervous about any kind of renting/leasing etc because of what constitutes wear and tear. I fancied the idea of Onto's model but the monthly figure was too much for us in one go. It has been a favoured model for more than a few EV KZbinrs though so i wonder if there's going to be an upturn in the turn over of the likes of EVGO. We're still loving our used Ioniq 38kWh... fortunately.... because its worth shedloads less than when we bought it at peak prices last year! I've been trying to make people aware that you don't need the £30k or more that people tout as the minimum price of EVs. I notice EVM's been doing that too but I do think sceptics or people who want to buy an ev but worry about the initial cost should be shown that used evs are so much better value than a used ice and are available in abundance. You can do a good job in that sphere but first you have to convince Flavia............. 🎵dat dut dah🎵...😅😅😅 We can vouch for the fact that used can be as good as new but so much cheaper, that might do it for her😂😄

[@rhiantaylor3446]

I expected leasing schemes to be a good indicator for the market transition to BEV but I admit I had expected ICE to rise as future values fell away and BEV to cheapen in comparison though there might be a risk that an excess of BEV demand over supply could push up residuals and new prices. The significant drop in used BEV values has therefore surprised me but it has meant that I have bought my own car earlier than I might have expected - I look for cars ~3 years old at least 50% below RRP which my car was, in fact 61% below at just less than 2 years old.

[@andrewbradley4261]

Also, lower company car BIK (Benefit In Kind), has brought masses more EVs into the market. It is strange that until now the mainstream press has banged on about EVs being too expensive - the prices have now come down and they are now 'too cheap' - can't win. Ultimately great news - it's just that companies who want to work in a 'steady state' economic environment didn't see this coming - it was predictable.

[@user-zx5lr8qo2i]

Just seen this and really sad to see Onto go. I wanted to move to electric but had the usual worries about charging, range, practicality, cost. Hired an Onto car for a month nd loved it so much I sold me petrol powered Mini and kept the car from Onto. I finally gave it back after nearly 2 years, when I opted to buy a Tesla, and I think the cracks had started to show - monthly subscription options were getting more complicated, milage allowance was cut, number of charging cards were reduced, and prices seemed to be going up. I guess it was always too good to last but I'm so glad I used them at the right time. I hope someone finds a way to make their subscription model work, as it was an idea I really loved. And thank you to the KZbinr who promoted their referral code on line. Can't remember who it was but it got me off to a good start.

[@timoneill5658]

This news is a bit sad, as it seemed like quite a good service. I had been wishing that there were something like it here in the US.

[@KodessR]

Citroen e-C4, interested in the review. Good looking car from the outside. But a nogo for me if you look at the horrible UI's on the entertainment and drivers dashboard. Still very happy with my ioniq 28kWh 17000 euros in 2021

[@graham5649]

Hi Andrew I did consider leasing but the payments were just too much so 6 weeks ago I bought a 2 year old Kia E-Niro 4+ two years old 15000 miles for £25000 and I absolutely love it and wish I could of afforded one sooner. The recent price drops have been really noticeable. Mine would of been nearly £40000 new. So many people run down EV's even my work colleagues have been going on about fires and terrible range, they just don't understand and some don't seem to want to. I just can't understand the hostility towards EV's.

[@avtomad722]

It was such forward thinking that ONTO had, weird it's gone into administration, and a great shame. Progress happens slow, and there will be other companies to follow their lead hopefully

[@gileshalliwell3591]

I think the Sun is the worst offender! Looking forward to hearing your views on the eC4…

[@MrEV]

True - The Sun is terrible.

[@gileshalliwell3591]

@@MrEV I take every opportunity when discussing EVs with people yet to be convinced that in 15 months and a combined 80,000 miles of EV driving none of the “problems” highlighted by unsympathetic media are real! Keep up your good work!!

[@siraff4461]

Its also worth pointing out that car share schemes always struggle - ev or ice.

[@stobysmith2583]

Was never gonna work as a model

[@QALibrary]

There is a EV hire/leasing company based in Portsmouth

[@rivergladesgardenrailroad8834]

Just heard a friend say his sisters Tesla caught fire in Queesland, but when i question the detail, it all goes vague.....

[@tomrobinson4781]

Aye!

[@iantaylor1172]

Ive just bought a kona 64 70plate. superb car for my needs, genuine 280 mile range at this time of the year. Lost a shed load on my ioniq the kona replaced, but the kona was significantly cheaper than 6-10 months ago. Im fortunate i saved over covid so paid cash. From now on its just 7.5p kwh from octopus to pay for elec.

[@MrEV]

Well done. The Kona is a superb car. It amazes me how efficient that car is. Absolute magic!

[@M0j0]

Combination of high interest rates, high insurance rates for business use, depreciation of evs, inflation/ cost of living crisis. Bit of a storm to be in. I do like Onto and their model and also hope they get rescued.

[@paulsm77]

Interesting, L&G pulled the plug on their modular home’s business recently too.

[@MrEV]

I'd not heard about that. Very interesting!

[@lookoutleo]

Wish had known about them , love my leaf 20 but would love to try other cars :) would loved to try onto. What would you suggest for me to get next? Would love bigger range

[@iantaylor1172]

Try a loniq or Kona. I've had both.

[@lookoutleo]

Couldn't find any ionic , what you think of mg 4 and 5

[@Roy-qn2ie]

Finally time to buy back that Ioniq 5 then Andrew xD

[@mrpugster]

I saw a Tesla with an ONTO sticker last week pull into the Tesco's just outside Dover. Was a little odd, just checked still into adminstration

[@MrEV]

Yes, there are people still subscribing with them. I'm not sure I'd fancy paying so much money to them without much support if something goes wrong.

[@mrpugster]

@@MrEV I literally just watched one of your video's that morning, noticed you lived pretty near me then and then saw an ONTO car for the first time🙂 Almost like a real time browser cookie shakedown thing going on he.. Nice video's btw.

[@wendyhopkins2902]

Such devastating news , thinking of they staff at this time x , my money is on you getting a kia niro lol

[@FFVoyager]

The original Kona 64kWh is a steal at the moment if you have to have 'long range'. Sub £20k will get you a Premium SE with mileage in the teens at the moment. But you could save £5k and you can get an Ioniq (SE spec) with similarly low mileage - but because the 38 charges very slowly I'd pick the 28 that you can get for a touch under £13k with 26k miles on Autotrader at the moment.

[@wendyhopkins2902]

@FFVoyager , just swapped a mild hybrid kona , for the new kia niro option 4 trim , its lovely 😍

[@bottletop101]

Andrew's "small car, big journey" video with the breakdown of costs of Onto compared to a traditional car hire company makes it clear why Onto was destined for failure. Two months Onto = 1400 quid. Two weeks traditional EV car hire = 1800 quid. Throw in free charging and pick up and collection costs included in the Onto price (IIRC) and it's hard to se how the business model works.

[@bshah4831]

Fantastic response to the EV fake information. Well done.

[@UntrainingUltrarunner]

“Pulled the plug” I can’t stand the mainstream media but that headline is brilliant.

[@HH79]

Yes the number of misleading articles about solar panels and electric vehicles are increasing I really don’t get it. I am owner of both and love it and the amount of money I save monthly is insane and still people that are not even owners themselves still write about how bad solar and ev are. Sad to see the ONTO go out but there will be others again. As long as a market demand exists new players will emerge. In Sweden we don’t have ONTO but cars are insanely expensive so many lease and when the leases started going up due to financing the new Chinese Ev dealers have saved the day with affordable leases Mg and DFSK as well as BYD have for 300€ to 500€ per month in Sweden.

[@shikoku14]

I’ve just bought a 2020 Soul 64 kWh EV First Edition which had done 33K miles for under £19K. There are long range EVs at really decent prices right now

[@MrEV]

What a bargain! Great car.

[@1mw2mam]

Need a campaign to counteract the negative press - I think it is invested business (think tobacco industry)

[@stuartburns8657]

I did consider ONTO last year, as a trial for a 3 week lodge holiday near Wales. Didnt have what we wanted, nor anything close it it. Still rocking our 2 x 55mpg dirty diesels. Both paid off, both around 60k -75k mileage. In no rush to convert due to the ridiculously low yearly mileage we do. Whilst I agree the 2nd hand market is geting more realistic, im waiting for the non telsa charging infrastructure to mature, or heaven forbid adobt their model of sat nav / availability intergration. Not going to entertain charger roulette.

[@GrahamRead101]

It’s getting there, but I’d agree many motorways services are still poor. Look at reading Moto services - that’s what’s needed everywhere.

[@LEgoiste.]

Yeah the EV negativity is ridiculous, in our case we can’t charge at home. My wife tops up at a free charger at a local supermarket, never had free at a fuel station apart from £3 worth of fuel after filling up 10 times!😂

[@siraff4461]

We used onto for about three years from the very start and back then the deals were on par or only slightly up on leasing. Unfortunately that didn't last and the Zoe which cost £289/month (iirc) originally was around £400/month when we looked at them again. Completely uncompetetive and much more expensive than simply buying a car. The problem is the business model altogether. Car sharing means there always needs to be more cars than demand so either you don't have enough cars or you have a lot sitting about doing nothing a lot of the time. The largest cost on a new car is usually depreciation and it will cost most of that even unused. Its a model that can only work if you charge a lot or if the grants are flowing. Its a shame because they were really lovely people to deal with but it was never sustainable unless people were going to pay far more than a lease or buy for cars which may not be available or may have soared in cost the next time they want to use them.

[@DavidJohnston58]

I would say you are in a Citroen eC4 or eC4x? Shame Onto have gone into administration as I know it suits many people. Not the best way for me though now I'm retired and doing tiny percentage of previous annual miles. I did use a "Turnkey" leasing company for many years where I got a brand new car every 6 months or 20000 whichever came first. Was expensive monthly payments for a car but great value for the whole package. Definitely an eC4 (X) you are sat in.

[@CookiezFlow]

I have been thinking about the EV 2nd hand market for some time now and I think it is not looking too good for most cars. Technology is growing fast, and many cars are/will be outdated very quickly and thus will loose a ton of value. I think all cars based on the e-208, e-c4, mokka-e platform etc will be somewhat irrelevant sooner than later. Same for the Enyak, VW ID etc platform. They don't make a lot of sense after the Tesla price drops. Likewise for some earlier models of BMW, Audi etc with only ~130KW charging speed. I think the only cars that might hold somewhat ok value are the Ioniq 5, EV6 etc because I feel their charging speed will still be relevant in 3-5 years. And some Teslas that were bought at the right time (who knows when they might raise/lower their prices again). It is just inevitable when technology is growing a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if there are 1000+km WLTP cars in 3-5 years, with 300+ KW charging speeds. And if Tesla releases their Model 2 for under 25-30k in a few years, that will kill almost the entire competition in that price range, and drastically lower 2nd hand car values. It is a bit like console/GPU/Phones from 10-20 years ago where there were insane generational leaps every few years, that have now stabilized. Which made older models quickly irrelevant and loose lots of value.

[@RupOase]

Hello Andrew, A few points that would clear a bit the mist around some topics that you've covered in this video: - while I can afford and also think that subscription vehicles are a good alternative to leasing, it really depends on your financial status. Clearly a person which drives a 8,000 € car would not afford a 600€ monthly subscription. And I think it's not exactly true that leasing gets you locked with a car that you don't like. That's why test driving is for, so that you get to know the car you are about to commit to the next 3-5 years. Failing in doing so, is your fault, not the car's - EV fleets are mainstream in China, where there are lands filled with these kind of cars. The main reason is the lack of people driving them. But another reason for those kind of images is the fact that the ridesharing companies that opted for EVs didn't bothered getting some well equipped ones. When the time came to sell the used EV no one wanted to buy an outdated and poorly maintained car with so many missing features, not just in comfort, but also in safety. Yes, they're good to drive around and about but that's pretty much it. It seems that Onto invested a lot in the basic, cheaper EVs, that no one wants to buy back, leaving only the best ones out there for very old members. I mean... I wonder who will get to own the Audi e-tron. - Tesla secured its share of the marked by selling a car that is not only is superior compared to others out there, but that it also reflects the actual worth of an EV, leaving stupids such as Hyundai and other car manufacturers, that went for "limited edition units" (see Hyundai's Ioniq 6 that was offered with a limited 2,500 vehicles on the market). Those units not only are stupidly expensive, but you are getting placed on waiting lists. Remember what happened last year with all Ioniq 5 orders? They got cancelled to that they would be shipped over to the American market in order for Hyundai to honour their $10 Bn. investments over there. - mass media indeed polarizes choices towards ICE in a never-ending war against EVs, partly because one of mass media's main interest is to gain visibility which in term gains revenue from ads and clickbait stories. This has been around for a while now, but people still click or read crap around without performing a secondary check to see whether the story is true or not.

[@stevewheatstone1856]

Citroen EC4 or EC4x?

[@bobtetstall2681]

Case of rapid expansion and reliance on Stelantis group cars that probably have too high a churn. Pity but someone will buy them and remodel.

[@MrEV]

That's a really interesting point. I did wonder why they didn't get the Kia Niro, Hyundai IONIQ 5, MGs etc.

[@jimmyjohnstone5878]

I looked at doing ONTO but the vehicles I wanted were not available. It's a good idea but if I could not have the car quickly I had no interest in waiting.

[@MrEV]

When did you look? Availability used to be really good I found - this year it got progressively worse.

[@paulbailey207]

I've got to give my zoe back by 7th November, so scrapping around to find another subscription ev that suits my limited budget. as I need it to get to work.

[@MrEV]

I would have said to try Elmo but suspiciously they have no cars available. Hopefully another option will present itself soon.

[@paulbailey207]

Just beem in touch with Gridserve, so im looking at a Funky cat ora , had test drive on sunday, quite impresssed, car leasing over four years, 412 a month and my insurance would be 50 a month, so it a little cheaper than what I was paying at Onto. I think i will go for it as I am not getting anywhere with Elmo. so I wish you a happy and fruitful search, and look forward to your up-and-coming videos to see what you have put in place as your next EV..

[@apierc1]

I wonder if some company or someone has called in a loan which is why they have sold a lot of their cars.

[@stevegreen2840]

Citroen e-C4 Waiting to see your review!!!

[@MrEV]

Well done!

[@stevegreen2840]

@@MrEV and the review? Waiting before buying. Take tape measure to boot for size, how high driving position, is the spoiler a real spoiler across the rear window?

[@MrEV]

@@stevegreen2840 It may be a little while off yet as I need to finish the last of the e-208 videos. The spoiler really does go straight across the rear window. A really odd design! I didn't measure the height of the driving position but it's fine. I just find the Stellantis cars windscreens a bit shallow - they all seem to suffer from it. I've measured the boot and that'll be in the video. It's a good shape but it seems larger than it actually is. I'll try to get the video out asap.

[@stevegreen2840]

Thanks. Unlike most EV (and reviewers) not interested in how fast it can reach supersonic (rather like the slow 9 sec acceleration). Looks an ideal car for us over 70s ,urban, shortish trips with comfort and knobs not touchscreen. @@MrEV

[@MrEV]

@@stevegreen2840 I'd say it fills that brief perfectly.

[@craigblaymire]

I've just been to look at a Zoe GT line + only 1 year old and 8000miles for £15000 it's an ex Onto car and looks immaculate. Loads of ex Onto cars for sale on forcourts with good APR incentives.

[@73henny]

Obviously too expensive.

[@AL-ib3lu]

This could be the time for a used Ioniq 5 or an I-Pace HSE. The other option is wait to find out who you have been paired with in the forced car share scheme. It's possible that this now won't happen thanks to SevenBinSunak.

[@allanedwards7756]

All good comments Andrew, shame about Onto but that’s finance, asset book value slashed by market forces, lenders crystallise their book loss to actual loss to offset taxable profits elsewhere.

[@kevinn1158]

Amazingly, because of currency exchange and relative prices, in Canada full EVs still have long wait times. The OEMs completely ignored Canada for 3 yrs. The only company wanting to drop prices or send cars is Tesla. And they've seriously dropped prices. I just glanced at used EVs here, and many are on the Autotrader for more than a new one. LOL. I just don't get it. This crazy behaviour really kills EV adoption. And lease rates are 8-10% here. Just nuts. I'm going to buy a new car soon, but I'm not going to pay a huge amount just to go full EV. It just doesn't make sense. So who knows, maybe this full EV price drops come to Canada soon, who knows. I can't wait much longer. As for your situation, so sad. EVerytime you mention the Ioniq 5 I expect a tear to run down your cheek... 🤪

[@jean-marcgruninger9019]

so if you cannot purchase your current onto car, what will you go for? there are second hand ioniq 5’s going for a bout 30k.

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Sad to see Onto biting the dust but there will now be a glut of relatively cheap EVs about to hit the market meaning prices will drop like a rock, nows the time to buy one

[@craigroberts3732]

I’ve had my eC4 from ONTO for 2 months and was suppose to be serviced back in May and I asked ONtO to service it via RAC but when RAC didn’t show up I called them and they told me RAC has terminated their relationship so basically the car can’t be serviced which means the car is getting devalued further! .. it’s a shame as I love the car and the ONtO service, I hope some car company buys ONto and uses it to Intro new customers to their cars in a commitment free way.

[@MrEV]

Oh no. I had a feeling that might be the case. I wonder what the deal is with breakdown cover?!

[@craigroberts3732]

@@MrEV yeah who knows. I am surprised my shell recharge card still works :)

[@michaeledwards8079]

I think the problem was resale values have plummeted and some EV's have lost more than 50% in 2 years, I have just had my GWM Ora delivered this week and total lease cost for 2 years is just over £7000. the list price is over £32000 so the car has to make at least £25000 when sold, I doubt it as I expect it to be about £15000, this is why when the lease ends I will be buying a 2 year old MG ZS or MG5

[@garrybye4415]

these fluctuations will have had a massive impact on the company balance sheet when they dropped quickly. That’s what probably gave L&G cold feet about putting money in

[@jackbroom7928]

You can get a 2 year PCP on a 2 year old Renault Zoe for £260 per month with a £200 deposit, obviously that goes down if you put more down as a deposit. Bear in mind the Zoe will have warranty until June 2026. Ironically, Onto kept raising their prices but used EVs kept getting cheaper. Whilst Onto maybe wasn’t expensive compared to a new EV, it was compared to a used EV. Also I heard of owners in the ID. 3 owners group having Onto cars whilst they had 12+ month waits due to Covid/chip shortages. The supply for EVs has increased, and dare I say the demand has decreased. Therefore, anecdotally, fewer people may be subscribing to Onto if they don’t have to wait anymore to get a new EV. Completely agree on your other points Andrew. I just think it’s a perfect storm unfortunately. I really feel sorry for the employees.

[@BeastLabChronicles]

Which auction sites are the evs going through?

[@carlarrowsmith]

All car auction sites but BCA has the most

[@hollyandtheev6519]

EV subscription may be a business model that is too niche at the moment. But I’d be surprised if it can’t be made to work in future. Hope the others in the market can survive the current economic headwinds.

[@KevNpton]

I’m a bit sad about it. I had a Renault Zoe for about 6 months and it went really smoothly. My old diesel died and I wanted an EV but the one I wanted still hadn’t arrived. I was after a MG ZS, but ended up with a MG4. Also my bright orange MG4 turns the heads of teenage boys, so it must make me a man.

[@mistymu8154]

To even make this a viable business, they would have had to charge double the price to offset depreciation, which is more in line with a car hire company. But who would want to pay £1500+ a month for a medium-sized family hatchback for the flexibility of having a different car each month? If car subscriptions were viable we would have seen a lot more of them with ICE cars. Also, it appears they based their business on the used market of COVID levels and did not factor in when the market normalised again.

[@jtchivers]

Sad news about Onto. I enjoyed the section on the press coverage on EVs and your responses too. From my perspective, I think the press onslaught against EVs is, as you mention, click-bait. There are many people on either side of the debate who enjoy a good debate and the press knows that it's going to drive clicks and comments. And yes, I indulge from time to time. But I've come to the conclusion that it's largely irrelevant now. The reality is that over years, family and friends of those of us who have been long-term EV owners have seen that we've managed perfectly well living with EVs. They've seen us live with them, seen the journeys we've done (even around a decade ago), seen us change to even more capable ones, seen us do overseas trips, experienced them themselves when travelling as passengers, and had the opportunity to talk with us for an honest view of them, and yes, that includes warts and all (and it doesn't get much more warty than bloody lane keep assist on the MG4!) I've had friends and family subsequently go out and get themselves EVs. My daughters both drive what were our previous family EVs (the Nissan LEAF and the MG ZS EV). My eldest daughter had the Smart ForTwo electric for a while too, before we sold it. Friends have bought one after asking me about living with them (one of them was in contact with you too about the Ioniq 5 and he ended up buying the Project 45 when it was released too. Now both his kids own Nissan LEAFs too). My mother-in-law bought a Peugeot e-208 around 18 months ago and loves it. More neighbours of mine have bought them and I'm seeing increasing numbers on the road. More people in my motorcycle IAM RoadSmart group have seen me riding electric motorcycles since 2016, training up petrol bike riders, and leading or participating in group social rides on them. They saw my 2017 electric motorcycle LEJOGSkaw journey and then saw me repeat it last year with James Coates. They have inevitably asked more generally about EV ownership and a few have subsequently made the jump, if not to an EV motorcycle, to an EV car. You have to be pretty dedicated still to be an EV motorcycle enthusiast or ride a lot to make it financially justifiable. I don't take credit for their move to EV, but the mere fact they've seen me live with one since 2014 and manage, even in those early, "pioneering" days of scarce, single, free Ecotricity Electric Highway charge points, has all sowed a seed. And for every person who successfully lives with one, there is a number of their friends and family who will experience exactly what we've experienced: that EV ownership is a convenient and enjoyable experience and not the horror story the press would have us believe. Chatting with folk at EVs in the Park a few years ago, I remember musing that we would one day arrive at a time when such an EV meet would seem a little strange, in the same way that a meeting of ordinary combustion engine vehicles might seem strange. We might not quite be there yet, and certainly the social side of such meet-ups has been enjoyable - and I'm looking forward to the EV Festival next April - but I don't think we're too far away. Oops. Written more than I intended and it's not even strictly relevant to the main topic in your video, except that you touched on how commonplace EVs are becoming. I may recycle this comment elsewhere. 😂 Good luck with the next car hunt and I feel duty bound to put in a good word for the MG4 (SE version, with its LFP battery). LKA annoyance aside (I really hope that a firmware update changes that, though I fear NCAP concerns will prevent that), I love the car, and it more than proved itself this summer, getting all five of us in my immediate family and all our luggage to Lake Como and back in a 2203 mile tour, which was wholly lacking in drama as far as the EV experience went.

[@MrEV]

Thanks so much, John. It's wonderful to hear so many people you know have been positively influenced by your experiences. We've certainly already past the point where EVs are niche, although I do still see an infectious frisson of excitement for many new drivers at charging stations. It's not often a new piece of technology so transformative comes along. Many will keep an open mind and enjoy the EV journey; others will naturally back off. Unfortunately, at least in my experience with people I know, they tend to be in the second camp - and I hear the same click-bait talking points over and over. In fact, as much as I'm in favour of the 2030-2035 ICE bans, I wonder if it does adoption any favours in the short term. People hate a hard sell! It's a slow process though. I'm actually encouraged to see so many comments on my videos from the "EV-curious", seemingly enjoying the video but also commenting that their diesel Merc can drive to Italy on one tank. We'll certainly consider an MG4, not least because LFP batteries really appeal, but also because there's not much that comes close in terms of value. Hopefully LKA is sorted by then. It's the bane of my life at the best of times and is why I favour the school run in our Leaf: most other EVs want to nudge me into the oncoming traffic!

[@computerbob06]

I'd watch it if I were you, it would seem that Octopus is only interested in taking over companies that are pink! 😂 I would have loved to have got an Onto car for a month or 2, to try out EV driving/owning, but the thing that put me off was their £1k excess! No thanks! As you've said Andrew, the prices of good, long range EV's have come down a long way, so it may be worth the while buying a used car with some or no finance - then getting rid of it if you don't like it? They're still a little too high for me even at £17k for an E-Niro 4, so it'll be a Golf GTE/E no finance or a Niro on finance next car! Very difficult decisions to be made soon, especially considering the prices may still drop further in the wake of the Onto glut and all those cars coming off 3 year leases!

[@ram64man]

its not paid by big oil, im one of those that has evs and looking to go back, i feel that the issue is people expect it to be like a regular automatic but evs have due to warm up cycles often given significate below range if you use it for the 10 mile run around, vws being the worse, but i am also tried evs twice now, once with the origonal leaf that couldn't do the winter run around 80 mile trip i ended up swapping jobs that made charging impossible, and ended up getting a mk6.5 golf tdi, this was written off after a major crash, but after a test ride of the then mk 1 model 3 standard range its shortcomings was not my cupper regardless of the supercharger network, i now live state side most of the time and got a lightning (due to rebuilding a home) that never makes more than 250 miles and what's worse no heat pump , and a chatanooga id4 that failed miserably in last winters sub -30c with just 20% left (of a 90% charge when unplugged) after 8 days in snow with no power for another 3 days i couldn't get to work, but the job takes me up to 350 miles a day, again no ability to charge in the day as i maybe miles away from any charger, i now drive a phev ford kuga (escape) and love it it does the trips to the shops but if i have to go out of town i don't have to worry about running out of gas and spending an hour waiting for it to recharge to get back home, (most of the network is 50kwh around here) sure gas is expensive but convenience and quality soft touch plastics and buttons is key, and evs are just not there yet, that's why i was so glad of the temp reprieve don't get me wrong if you drive less than 60 miles a day your laughing but getting into a normal everyday ev other than kia/hyndai all the rest are deliberately making it more simple and bland and button free people just don't want it,. i would be happy to have a mk 7 golf with a 70kwh pack (if they could fix the warm up high usage) but the id3 especially is not there evs for mass adoption need to be a power train option only and the same high quality car above, stop following tesla who have made two major mistakes as far as im concerned with the raven and highland 1 removed acoustic parking (and disabling it when going back in for service , my friend hit the roof) and now no storks that's fine for dead straight roads but the rest of the world and around me its all twisty. volvo did the same combining the wipers and one stork and now i read id 4 is doing the same its daft, clearly designed by people that don't like to drive, its no wonder cars are sitting on the lot, no matter the public pressure given the choice ill rather go e85 than ev again,

[@Zimpaz]

You should buy another eniro! You can get top spec 4+ Mk1's for around the 20k mark now! First editions ive seen as low as 15

[@MrEV]

Watch this space!

[@chrisbarrow9909]

Money pit, surprised it lasted as long.

[@sausagemcgregory]

I've just learned that the 98% of the cobalt in oil refining is recycled. It takes about 1 pound of cobalt to remove the sulfur from 80,000 gallons of petroleum products, like gasoline. 80,000 gallons would power a car for about 2.4 million miles, but 98.8% of that cobalt is recoverable, meaning we permanently lose only a pound of cobalt for every 6.6 million gallons we refine. Just thought that was interesting.