The Faith Journey of an Ultra-Orthodox, Utah County Mormon Mom - Gretchen Day - Mormon Stories 1392

[@Moore2luv2680]

Been a Mormon for 26 years. My daughter, last October went through the temple for the first time for her endowments. I was sitting next to her, and just had an overwhelming feeling that everything taught in the temple is just unnecessary. Especially in regards to personal salvation and exaltation. And then my son, had his mission papers submitted to bishop, waiting for interview with stake president. He wrote my husband and I a letter and expressed how he can’t bring himself to teach people something he can’t get his heart behind believing. It was like a breath of fresh air. It was permission I felt to finally be honest with myself and say, “me too. I don’t think I believe it either.” Since then myself, my son, my husband and my youngest have made the decision to not attend church any longer. We still pray, we still believe in God. And guess what? We are still happy.

[@lenabruto2860]

Mormonism is a Patriarcy cult..Its dangerous..

[@sterlingday6362]

Love you Mom! I am so lucky to have such an understanding and supportive mother as yourself (:

[@kwaintraub2]

Cherish your mom. It takes guts to go public like this. My sons also have a mom like you do;)

[@hannahbellxoxo2414]

Your mum is amazing. And so are you

[@lisapurplehayes]

Those bishops can all kiss it. Take care!

[@777igg]

I commend your mom it sounds like almost every decision she has made was though!

[@jackm.j.3549]

You've got a badass woman in your corner. I'm so sorry that the church put you through so much. You deserve good things.

[@texella73]

John, I love how you pause and say, "Did I just see emotions coming out for you?" It's just an invitation but not a demand. Thank you, friend.

[@karencross3815]

I am a Utah County woman who left Mormonism 2.5 years ago. Only 2 neighbors have said hi to me. Good thing they threw me out 11 years ago when I got divorced or it might have hurt. It hurt 11 years ago and it was a breeze 2.5 years ago. What a terrible ride Mormonism was for me. I am glad it's not true.

[@paularoberts866]

I'm sorry! Did you get disfelllowshipped for getting divorced? That's terrible

[@karencross3815]

No. They treated me as if I had a disease. My ex husband had cheated our whole marriage and my daughter and I were ignored while my ex and our 4 sons were treated well. I was removed from young women's and put in nursery. My ex was excommunicated and upon his re baptism, and restoration of blessings put in a bishpric of his new ward. I kept going faithfully until I learned it was all lies 8 years later. I'm free from the manipulation which hurt me so much .

[@dianethulin1700]

@@karencross3815 Put in the Bishopric? Gross! Sounds like a recipe for disaster if he is alone interviewing anybody in his history of infidelity. Like I said, gross! It's so ridiculous how you have been treated by supposed Christians. I am sure there are many more who can relate to you even though nobody knows what they are going through. I want to extend my love to you and I want you to know there are many who love you. Please believe that! Model for your daughter how lucky she is to be away from all the dysfunction and toxic fake friendship

[@hbendzulla8213]

@@karencross3815 congratulations, I’m happy for you. You’re a free person now.

[@laurencek.1580]

I also left 2.5 years ago, but of my own volition. It feels like a ton of bricks being lifted off my shoulders as that lifestyle living a lie and beliefs built on commandments of narcissistic men in suits. But, yeah almost everyone wants to shame or pretend you don’t exist.

[@nd4539]

“If the truth spreads, Mormonism dies” …. Boy that’s the truth right there! Never mo here, and I find all these podcasts fascinating. I live in Idaho and I’m always trying to understand the LDS community because it’s pretty big here. One thing I never really hear talked about is tithing - this is Big Business. I can’t imagine tithing to the organization while not believing out of fear of being separated from your children. Not being able to attend your child’s wedding if you don’t pay that fee… manipulated to have more children than you would have otherwise so they can continue paying the Organization…. Absolutely despicable. I feel so sorry for people living this way.

[@Notfromhere347]

My son came home early from his mission too. I don’t know what they did to him, but it absolutely broke him. He refers to the MTC as prison and literally feels a class action lawsuit should be brought against the MTC. I never hear other moms talk about this, but I don’t think this is uncommon.

[@michaeld1770]

my neighbors son came home early a number of years ago. she tried to organize a support group for other early return missionaries knowing he still wanted to be a good mormon but didnt complete that one task. she was shot down not sure if she even organized a group outside the church or not.

[@imoutbye]

My mission broke me. I was a relatively have 19 year old doing normal things. Three months in I had my first serious thought of suicide. 19 years later still struggling. Never been the same again.

[@imoutbye]

Happy*

[@kirstena1363]

I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder BEFORE I left and I still went. I’m not sure why, i guess I didn’t understand the severity of bipolar. Came home after 6 months because of a mysterious gastrointestinal illness. Never been the same.

[@rebeccacarter697]

So sorry to hear another bad experience. I guess I'd be glad to get out of the church sooner than later.

[@burrellbikes4969]

Honestly - this has been the MOST important episode of Mormon Stories I think I have ever heard. I could not put it down until I finished it at 3am. This story impacted me almost to the level as the CES letter. Tears flowed, heart pounded, empathy felt. I also have to thank her for making me SO grateful that I am getting out before my kids have had a chance to be fully indoctrinated.

[@71suns]

Bless you friend. There's freedom in the grace of God found in the Lord Himself.

[@jackm.j.3549]

Hearing her swear makes my heart sing. I'm so sad she went through what she did but I'm so happy she made it through to the other side.

[@pilarjohnson3326]

Sadly, this story is so familiar. My daughter was exhibiting anxiety and depression during her years in Young Women. The YW leaders were terrible to her, putting so much on her to perform in ways she couldn’t. They wanted her to go to Seminary at 6 am in the morning and do all the YW activities during the week. After a lot of different tries, she started having daily panic attacks. So we told her she didn’t have to go to Seminary. Her YW leaders shamed her in front of all the other girls every single Sunday. My daughter told me this after many months of it happening. If it was just me, I would have taken her out of the YW program and Church completely, but unfortunately my husband did not agree. This caused so much chaos, instability, and pain in our home. The traumas she suffered in the LDS Church and the tensions at home due to her inability to conform, caused her to break into a hypo mania and was diagnosed with bipolar at 19 years old. Needless to say, she is not active in the Church anymore. She is receiving medical and therapy treatments and doing relatively well. Several therapists told her that the Mormon Church behaves like a cult and that they had treated many ex Mormon patients with similar experiences. I am truly sad you had these experiences, but it gives me so much peace to know that my actions back then were absolutely necessary to protect my daughter. To get some validity after years of suffering alone feels so comforting. Like you, I followed my mother instincts instead of Church recommendations. Thank you for sharing your story, it helped me immensely!

[@maribeloliveros9260]

same thing happens to my twin daughters....after the church granted them the scholarship..they obliged them to attend institute class...when they were not attending because they were too tired bec they had classes in the morning and institute class was in the afternoon...the church cancelled the scholarship

[@pilarjohnson3326]

@@maribeloliveros9260 I am sorry to hear that you and your daughters had to go through this too.

[@nicolewade160]

Oh my gosh! That’s so heartbreaking but so happy she’s getting help & that you stood up for her

[@deannapowell7237]

I'm a former Christian raised in the Baptist "cult" and have deconstructed/deconverted fully and do NOT want to raise my kids in any kind of religion. I am so grateful I watched this episode. I have ordered every single book and can't wait to read them to my kids. Thank you!!! I want my kids to always have a choice....a gift my parents did NOT give me, that led me to make so many choices I completely regret. Also, I absolutely LOVE Brene Brown and Glennon Doyle. I can't wait to read the kids your Cheetah book. Ugh, so good!!

[@beverlyharward9631]

Deanna Powell, we Baptist are not a cult

[@jameswalberg3265]

This is one of the toughest Mormon Stories to listen to. So tough that I had to break it up into 4 sessions. Normally I listen to the complete "long interviews" in one session. Possibly because the Church of LDS was/is so abusive to Gretchen and I found their treatment of her and her son abhorrent. Clearly there is more to her story (family) but I'm guessing, it is to protect them. Even so, an incredibly POWERFUL story.

[@zoekaye7129]

wasn’t raised mormon but i can’t stop watching these! my favorite thing is how many times gretchen said “you can edit this out” and you never edited anything she said ❤️ i love that so much

[@stoutie18]

Me too! I wasn’t raised anything in the ballpark but all of this has me riveted and on the edge of my seat!!

[@ZeBeFruity]

Gretchen, you have every right to be so fired up. I'm sure everyone in the mormon institution is probably taken aback by your ferocity and articulation as a woman. But you are a great role model. Thank you. I kept wondering where your husband stands with all this.

[@christie8493]

Her story is the fantasy I have about my ultra-orthodox mother leaving the Mormon church. I haven’t spoken to my mother in over 10 years,, when I left the church she told me I’d be better off not-@live, and took me out of her will. I’ve made peace with the tr@uma but still feel sad for my very intelligent mother stuck in this religion and in the process of trying to hold on to her family, actually lost contact with all her children. And she still chose the church over us, her family. Although my mom may never make it out, I’m SO glad this woman did! It’s refreshing to see someone who was orthodox gain their freedom and become their own person! Just knowing that a Mormon mom chose her family and kids over the church brings me peace.

[@michelemiller3798]

I'm a therapist & like reminding parents like your mom that God, Jesus & our Heavenly Mother love us UNCONDITIONALLY! So for parents who are harsh &/or disown a non-believing child, they're not following what Jesus taught.

[@MarnieGolde7]

This sounds incredibly hard. I hope you’re doing ok. Sending you lots of love.

[@lindathegreat100]

One of my very good TBM friends (and myself) have been saying for years that 99% of people at church are acquaintances, not friends (so I was prepared for them all to kick me to the curb), except my 3 buddies. Those 3 people I considered actual friends, whom I cared about, but was still worried they would dump me. The "acquaintances" confused my friendliness and my kick-butt work ethic with being their friend. My 3 friends have stayed by my side, 2 are TBM, 1 already had a foot out the door of the church (which we surprised each other). I respect my 2 church-active friend's & in turn, they respect me. I have lived in this same ward for 25 years and I am known well throughout the stake. As for the rest of the ward, the acquaintances, I have no clue what they think because except for random food gifts in December, I have not heard a peep from a single soul since March of 2020. But hey, the treats? I hit the big time, and I let the hubs eat them all.

[@beckylynncoplengreer9136]

Gretchen, you are amazing and courageous. I admire you so much. Thank you for having the courage to share your story. So many resonated with it. Takes such courage to share your truth!

[@ThomasDove90]

God I can relate to this so much. My wife and I had kids when we ourselves were just kids. I almost cried with you when you were talking about your older self talking to your younger self. I deeply relate to that. Thank you.

[@joecook5689]

Lots of mormons are kids when having kids, right? And lots of not mormons have kids and marry when they're just kids too. Seems hard either way. Bless them.

[@carolynaitken7632]

@@joecook5689 Having kids while you’re a kid means you’ll all be old together but that’s not fun for your kids when they’re old trying to take care of your elderly parents when they’re old yourself it sucks!!!!

[@joecook5689]

@@carolynaitken7632 good point. That would suck.

[@Will0wFire]

Every time I tune in, I hear from another extraordinary person. One theme I'm getting is that ex-mormon people are super-strong, admirable people whom I admire wholeheartedly. I just wish that every young Mormon woman age 16 to 25 could listen to this, before she decides to dedicate her life to the church.

[@mariannepolkowski-burns2627]

I also admire those who leave Mormonism after discovering the untruths and false religious stories. What courage it takes when the culture has surrounded them all their lives!!!

[@Mary9beth]

Yes!!

[@nancywallace4048]

Totally agree with you. I am a never-Mormon, yet find the people who tell their stories here so compelling, insightful and articulate. I listen often. And yes, I donate!

[@tomk5619]

BOOM! The last few minutes were the most powerful rejection of Mormonism I have ever heard. You nailed it, Gretchen. Edit: If you are reading this comment after the live presentation I'm referring to Grethen's comments from 3:32.28 to 3:36.09.

[@funkyfreshtx]

oh my gosh, most definitely! So powerful!

[@joelugo1812]

I totally agree with your comm ent Tom.

[@rubendhoyos9886]

3:32:28 to 3:36:09 it’s easier that way.

[@salindariebow8175]

At 1:56 it started hitting me in my gut. Especially when she said "I lost my voice.". It's soul crushing to discover you've been gaslighted most of your life and you just can't use your voice. Anyone that says just do it, isn't facing the reality of how complicated it can be to do so.

[@chubbuck35]

I laughed hard when she said “bull effing shit”. A perfect thing for a post-Mormon to say, kind of edgy but not all the way edgy. LOL!!

[@NikZ3r0]

Ya, I thought this was pretty fucking funny "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot."

[@johnhorner1969]

Reminds me of office space. Fucking A man.

[@hayleybeethomas]

Yep, the church talks so much about agency, but when there's only one choice, one correct way to live, you don't really have that much of a choice do you?

[@mariannepolkowski-burns2627]

I’m not Mormon. I lived in SLC from 1986 to 2001. I’ve enjoyed every minute of Gretchen’s story. So forthright and honest, brilliant and compelling. She has inspired me immensely. Through Mormon Stories I finally learned so much. I never was Mormon. (I attended The U of U Law school. )

[@ladyatlarge3844]

As I was watching this I'm so thankful once again that my sister was able to leave before her boys were fed to the machine of mormonism! Heart breaking. The last few mormon stories have really driven home how much pressure we place on every single person in the church. A volunteer institution. not hardly.

[@71suns]

It's spiritual brainwashing, deception and abuse. What is being described and imposed on those pulled into this 'religion' mirrors cult mentality and dangerous idolatry.

[@Geoplanetjane]

I was never a “by the book” Mormon, so when the anti-gay and anti-same sex marriage lessons started, I is wrote a heartfelt letter to the President, mailed it, and never went back, despite efforts made to bring me back. When the lies against the church’s involvement in Proposition 8 began, my husband left too. My children had quit participating years before, so they were not hurt by our decisions. In fact, they have told me that they are glad that we left. My younger son told me that even as a young child, he found the primary lessons and songs and the rote “testimonies“ of kids even younger than he was to be bogus. Both of them resisted overtures by missionaries while at College (Harvard and Stanford), so they escaped without ever having any interviews with the bishop, involvement in Mormon Boy Scouts, or any of that dangerous territory. I have moved on, as they did well before me. Thanks for this powerful message.

[@benredd2411]

I can relate to her son a lot. I remember telling someone on my mission that the story about Joseph Smith using a rock in a hat was an anti-mormon lie and then learning the truth two years later in my Foundations of the Restoration class at BYU. I was also completely broken when I got home from my mission (even though I lasted the whole two years) and was extremely depressed and suicidal for a number of years after returning home. At this point I've had my name removed from the records of the church and finally feel like I'm starting to feel OK again. It's been almost six years since I've been home though and I still feel like I'm just a shell of the person I was before my mission.

[@natalies4375]

❤️ it’s not easy. I’m sorry. It’s not fair, it’s not right. Parents and kids, siblings, entire life. So many like us. It’s heartbreaking and devastating personally. Still a shell of my old self too, but I will find my voice like this woman. For today, I just continue to try my best even though it sucks a lot. Absolutely most badass interview ever. She is MY REAL LIFE ROLE MODEL! 💥👊 I can feel my strength bubbling up and I love it. 💞

[@jadejohnson3144]

Same! My mission completely shattered me. And my first big shelf item was learning about the seer stone at BYU as well. Why would the anti-Mormons be more truthful about our history than we were? It was the beginning of the end.

[@carolynaitken7632]

@@jadejohnson3144 The trouble with you is that you didn’t fast and pray about it, the church is true!!!

[@jadejohnson3144]

@@carolynaitken7632 Hey Carol, don’t worry I don’t hate the church. It just really hurt me in a lot of ways. If it’s what works for you I’m very happy for you and wish you the best.

[@carolynaitken7632]

@@jadejohnson3144 I’ve struggled it hasn’t been a piece of cake my late husband went inactive many years before he died I was left on my own the church is family oriented and so it can be a lonely place and there have been times when it’s been only my testimony that’s kept me there and I do have a testimony because I’ve had many dreams my late husband appeared to me in a dream and told me concerning a special place where Latter Day Saints go in paradise I’ve even seen the church on the other side in paradise it’s called the church of the first born I’ve also seen the spirit of a woman that looked after me when I was small she has joined the church on the other side at the time I was backsliding and drinking tea she appeared me in a dream and warned me against drinking tea because it offends the spirit the Lord has also warned me that if I don’t keep his ordinances I will not be numbered among his people but he has also said to me daughter your sins are forgiven Joseph Smith had enemies and they made up lies about him, have you ever had people make up lies about you because they didn’t like you? I have and you know what they’re saying are lies but other people believe them, but in the end the truth will prevail!!!

[@amyferrill770]

I was riveted by your story. Raised by alcoholic father and rigid Baptist mother. Talk about confusing messages. I got saved in a highly controlling church and married into the same. No voice. I was told I could never say no to s**. You can imagine how our marriage started out. Anyway, he had a massive stroke three years ago and I'm now starting to find ME. I saw myself in your story! Our personalities are so much alike. I know how to stand up for myself and it scares people. YOU GO GIRL! And, DO. NOT. MESS. WITH. OUR. KIDS.

[@wesliepowell5698]

Me, too!!

[@calebspears8694]

Wow- how can we not instantly just love Gretchen?! What a great heartfelt and genuine interview. Just keep in mind that the LDS’s most recent response to stories like Gretchen's is “Kwaku-esque”... let that sink in.

[@emilymichelle158]

I absolutely love your personality and spunk. I’m glad that you never let that go. I love seeing people stand up for the things that they genuinely believe in. I see myself in you with the needing to be doing something and being driven and I love seeing that you never let that go.

[@GriffinPhillis]

This episode was frickin' incredible; it's so wonderfully full of emotions, it was super interesting hearing Gretchen's story and her various thoughts on topics and concepts, and it all brought out a few good laughs and grins from me, too! Thank you both for this. 💚

[@darlenethayne]

I loved listening to your story, often with tears in my eyes. It was my story in so many ways, and I so appreciate your honesty and vulnerability. I wasn't able to attend 3 of my 4 children's temple weddings (for which two have since apologized) and went through hell as my newly diagnosed diabetic son was called on an LDS mission. He had gone into convulsions once and could have died a couple of times while we were all trying to figure out how to manage that awful disease (Type 1 Diabetes). So, naturally, like you, I was VERY concerned about him being on his own in the mission field (thank goodness it was stateside). I talked to his mission president personally to explain that each of his companions needed to understand the symptoms and protocol for going low with his blood sugar, but the response of his arrogant mission president was to ignore my request and tell me that the Lord would take care of him. I could do nothing and thank goodness there were no really serious episodes. However, I could see in his face when he returned from his mission the dark circles under eyes showing that he was not well. The morning after he returned, he went into convulsions while showering and actually tore our the faucet because it was so horrific! We called the paramedics who could not get him under control, and he ended up in the hospital. Thanks, mission leaders, and LDS church for following the spirit to take such good care of my precious, believing son....:(

[@Abenn944]

My goodness ... 🙌🏻 Everything Gretchen said about her second daughter who struggled & developed increased depression/anxiety within the church is exactly our experience with our teen girl. “Everything that was supposed to help her ended up hurting her”... TBM people think we are crazy if we voice that when it’s really true!! Living in Utah county is quite the experience when you’re deep in the rabbit hole with a broken shelf. I know, I live here too - thank you for your courage to be open, share your story & for teaching us how we can better love & raise our kids through a faith transition. 💕💕

[@empressvee]

I'm slowly going through the older Mormon Stories, I truly feel this may be the best Mormon story I have ever heard.

[@craigstephenson7676]

If every child knew and applied critical thinking skills, cults, scams, and conspiracies would disappear within a generation.

[@joeblo7703]

Yup...so glad this happened to me while my son was pre-mission years, now he doesn’t have to waste 2 yrs of his life telling people a false whitewashed photoshopped narrative.

[@misscleo378]

I’m thinking that is why they lowered the mission age. They want to get their missionaries while they are still young, naive and unaware of life outside the Mormon bubble. They won’t recognize that they are being taught manipulation and marketing tactics to spread their faith.

[@h.a.k-m3370]

Wow. I apologize for the weirdest comment ever. But I'm a no-mo from the other side of the world and this is so relatable! Mama Bear Gretchen is literally me when I'm pissed. The way she talks about herself could be about me in general. This is so strange. I'm like 99,5% sure I would be like her if I would be on faith crisis. Thank you Gretchen for showing me how I would feel without ever being on involved in a high demand religion. Saves me a lot of time and effort. 😘❤️

[@heidimoore6513]

Wow, what an amazing story. Thank you for taking the time to share it with us. I resonate with you on many things but especially about your last point. Space opened up for me to love everyone with no conditions as well. It's the most authentic, liberating, and easy feeling I've ever experienced. I will never go back to a place that will cause it to be closed up.

[@dm7876]

Wow! At 3:37 your advice was spot on. I’ve had sister in-laws and a little bit, parent in laws who I learned 15 years ago that I never divulge personal information to because it will be used against me either as gossip, or to make condescending or passive aggressive remarks to gaslight me or plain put me or my kids down. So I haven’t spoken to them beyond the bare minimum for that long.

[@harryfve5]

Oh, to have had access to this in 1990. This is one of the best mormon stories. heart felt thanks for your hard work.

[@rubendhoyos9886]

2:52:52 Love this part on why the church needs to stop calling members who question the church or ex-members as “anti-Mormon”.

[@willbyrd8584]

So fuuny how "Give Said The Little Stream" was the favorite of so many of us who grew up LDS. I left in 1965 at age 18 ... and that is one memory that stays with me.

[@rhonda-maenelson9826]

...sorry to post so much. This is the first time for me posting. After many MS, this one really resonates. :)

[@Smileygld123]

Kudos to you for protecting your kids and being a good mom.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

"There should be no interview process on belief." -Gretchen Wow, this interview is so revealing about the places that Mormonism guides its members.

[@JPark118]

I just came across this video. I haven’t been to church for a while but still define myself as a “mormon”. All these experiences that i hear actually is like a wake up call. It validates the experiences that I had from the church, and i decided to start my own spiritual journey. I don’t think I’ll officially walk out of the church and cut all the ties at this time or ever yet but i really appreciate for this video.

[@71suns]

Consider seeking the truth in the Good NEWS of the Gospel of Grace which the Lord has poured out on us all through the Lord Jesus Himself.

[@fatimaahmad1955]

I come from a muslim background and I am addicted to this channel. Listening during all my free time. Yep Joseph Smith is like my Ex prophet ..

[@alissat.4363]

I’ve never been Mormon but am fascinated by religion and cults, which is why I’m here. Great interview! I just wanted to throw this out there for you, Gretchen. It sounds like you’re struggling with labeling the “spiritual” moments when God was talking to you, now that you’re out. You seem very perceptive. I wonder if those feelings of “get off the wagon!” and whatnot were really your own intuition trying to get your attention. Some of us are just more perceptive. I am like this too. I’ve had my own inner voice telling me not to do things and it turned out I was 100% correct. Trust your instinct. It has been right all along. You’re just better at honing in on it than others.

[@anonymousone9699]

❤❤❤❤❤

[@SheSmilesattheFuture75]

Grew up Mormon, God took the veil off my eyes over 20 years ago. Hard pill to swallow, but the reality is it’s one of Satans many masterpieces. Saying all that, there is still only one truth and that truth is Jesus Christ alone. He is the way the truth and the life.

[@aaronstewart6903]

I can’t give enough thumbs up. Thank you so much for sharing your story.

[@douglaslivengood359]

I love her! She said things to her bishop that we would have love to say to him. She sounds a great loving mom. I was wondering how her hubby is doing with the church. Thank you for a great interview.

[@leem3299]

Mormon Stories magic here. Facilitating someone telling their own story. Connection. Compassion. No pressure to believe anything or not. Just authenticity. Let's talk about health baby.

[@helms01ya]

Saying I love you doesn’t require the same belief system. This right here🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@EvelynJoy]

I thuroughly enjoyed this full video! Thank you!!!

[@brendavirtue1881]

this was a great interview i had an uncle that lived in the Provo area and a very dedicated Mormon. after extensive research he left the church and convinced most of his kids to leave it too. He too found it was all a lie. He was devastated and endured a lot of threats and intimidation from the Church. It is a cult no question about it.

[@71suns]

Thank you for saying the truth out loud. People need to hear it.

[@subice2158]

My god, what a badass mom! I loved to hear how protective and loving she is

[@RB-zh1eq]

I grew up in Utah County. My family were devout Mormons. You can't get more Mormon than Utah County. Glad I don't live there now, and glad to no longer be part of the cult. Gretchen, your courage is amazing. The only thing separating you from my wife is education. She's still deeply TBM. Especially since I left TSCC four years ago. She avoids science, and knowledge in general, while burying herself in scripture and other church literature. I'm glad you got out. Some people never will.

[@Sunset-chaser777]

Gretchen’s story is SO much like mine with Catholicism...several correlations, the 8 kid connection, the natural births, the being a Mom dedicated to the church...wow!

[@kollettebowman5247]

I grew up in South East Idaho I have never been LDS and as a child I was sent home from friends homes for not being a member and as a teen being told I would be told we can't go on a date because of not being worthy of going to the temple one day etc....I was raised to not believe in one true church but the LDS church messed up how I felt about myself in some ways so I can only imagine how bad you felt

[@brothertyler7628]

2:38:50 John just made the comment about the church Inoculating the next generation of the church. The thing about inoculating the youth with more information about the church to keep them in the church is it will either work or postpone them leaving. I know it will work because I learned about all of it in my youth and I didn’t doubt it until I was 27. I read the CES letter at 24 and I knew all of it except two points and it didn’t even give me pause. It wasn’t until an innocent question that made me think about the double think I had on Joseph smith to realize there was something wrong. I am worried about these kids because when I broke it hurt and I can’t imagine hundreds of people going through the same thing when it could be prevented.

[@mormonstories]

I would love to talk to you more about this. This is John. Plz email me. [e-mail]

[@kirstieanderson9399]

I had a similar experience. What was your innocent question about Joseph Smith?

[@brothertyler7628]

@@kirstieanderson9399 I was reading the dead sea scrolls and someone asked me how it compared to the JST

[@windyday85]

You are worthy of Love.. For real. Thank you. Are we not supposed to worship the Savior not a man Not a book

[@kathrynclass2915]

I grew up in California. I was an ultra true blue Mormon. I had 100% seminary attendance all four years, didn’t matter if I was deathly ill or falling asleep in school... I felt that seminary was more important than any of those things. Any questions I had or doubts I chalked it up to the adversary and told myself my to shake them off and get in line with the church. For example, I had a BIG problem with polygamy but my mom said it would be sorted out later in heaven and my leaders said that if I didn’t agree to it on the next life that I would be destroyed; I would cease to exist. I was too tried to get good grades in HS and we didn’t have any money growing up anyway, so I didn’t go to any of the BYU schools. I scraped up enough money to go to community college part time, and I went to institutes. This is a really long way to get to the point I wanted to make. I was also taught, just like Gretchen, that it was my godly responsibility to be a mom. That it is a commandment for couples to multiplying replenish the earth. So I agree with Gretchen, this was not just something cultural. It was taught as doctrine. And yes, to the garments thing... totally felt like I couldn’t go without wearing them for just about anything and was told by the temple matron that if I did need to take them off for a doctor’s visit that I needed to pray for protection and tell god that I am only taking them off temporarily and would put them on as soon as possible. I used to carry them with me to the doctor so when it was time to get dressed again I would put them on before I left. Or I’d wear my garments to the beach and change into the swimwear in the bathroom and then change back before driving home. I hated exercised because I was too hot and too bogged down with clothing. I’m in awe of Gretchen for being able to keep going with the exercising!

[@71suns]

You're describing similar requirements set down in any number of CULT-IDOLATRY groups regardless if they present themselves as a 'religion'.

[@theelliottfamilyvids]

My kids …28,26,22 and 13… when my husband and I realized we had been lied to. Only 4 months ago and we are trying how to figure this out. Horrific.

[@emptybusseat]

What a beautiful interview. Thank you for sharing and for John for your work

[@t-lilyshock9531]

I could not look away. Thank you for sharing your story so candidly.

[@kentthalman4459]

These past several months, JD has been bringing some important moral concepts to the forefront, making these podcasts quite important. The key theme in this podcast is Unethical Persuasion. JD has other podcasts emphasizing Informed Consent. These are enormous blind spots for TBMs and the Q15. We need to pound that moral hammer until they recognize the merit of them.

[@jodigirl6610]

This story resonates with me so much. I was a Jehovah's Witness for 40 years and I am not casual either, I am always careful. Always. I don't do anything without planning it or over thinking it. At all. Ever. And when I left I agonized about it for about four years. I knew what would happen when I left. After I left I realized I was in a cult. We have been out for 11 years and my only regret is that we didn't leave 10 years earlier. I realized that all my deepest friendships were all conditional. I knew that, and I was right. They didn't want to know why I left and were terrified I was going to tell them. I had dear, dear friends I knew since I was a child who blocked me everywhere without ever asking me what was wrong or if I was okay. I STILL grieve for them, and I wonder if they even remember me now. This was a excellent video, thank you so much for telling your story! You are one strong woman! ♡

[@Cessna8057F]

“Conditional friendships” what a great term to describe almost all the church friends I once had. Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it.

[@jodigirl6610]

@@Cessna8057F isn't it a sad realization? That your friendships you made were all conditional on your religion. And I think the other part that is sad is that I could have maintained all those life long friendships--if I just kept up the charade of going through the motions and pretending that I still believed in all the b.s. My "friends" didn't care what I thought as long as I just went along and never said out loud what I truly felt. THAT part really made me realize they weren't my true friends in the first place. It was all conditional. I am sorry you went through something similar.

[@71suns]

How desperately hard. 😢...Bless you friend.

[@Balaganbetty]

Amazing strength and power. Sending you lots of love and support… from a non-Mormon who grew up in Provo… and is still in years of therapy to undo the trauma and harm from the Mormons, that culture and oppressiveness

[@lj9524]

I can relate to so much of her reflections about being an intelligent, smart girl and woman. Corporate America back in the 1980s through 2010s were the same. Men taking credit for my ideas and work. Uggghhhh….. Great interview. She is one amazing woman. God bless her❤️

[@CulturedGem]

I love her. She is so real. Thank you so much!!! I thought of converting, as our country is so individually alone, and the LDS offers community in many ways, but after all I have seen I would never convert and am so grateful for your YT site.

[@Smileygld123]

Thank you for writing these books! I really needed these and didn't know it.

[@joecook5689]

I like the sl Tribune writer, a mormon, but makes fun of mormons. Kirby. Robert kirby, I think. He wrote how in priesthood meeting someone in his ward said how tithing is so equal with the 10 percent rule. Kirby said nope, rich people can eat lobster and steak every night while poor people that donate ten percent eat cat food. I just thought of that article when she brought up her childhood stories. I thought it was funny.

[@michaeltaylors2456]

Tried explaining that to my widowed solely living on social security TBM mother ..... she literally pays (tithes) 180 on her monthly 1,800.

[@abracadanielle9647]

LOVE making this info accessible for kids. I’ve been struggling on how to teach my kids to protect themselves from unethical persuasion

[@susanbaldwin5454]

I love this interview. It is very helpful

[@auto137226]

Just ordered her 3 children’s books on Amazon.

[@Jsppydays]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. God bless you.

[@tiffanijohnson611]

I would agree we didn’t have a choice at 19. 😥

[@thomasmoore3204]

My eyes started filling w/tears for Gretchen while listening to the first hour(s). How really crazy, brainwashed she sounded and I can see my own Mother, Sisters, Niece. This is why Exmormons need a type of deprogramming (or religious methadone clinic) because members are so gaslighted with commandments/teachings were never commandments or taught? We accept and believe the leaders to be our saviors and problem solvers, only to find out they are, were and will always be the problem makers and tormentors.

[@dr.bandito60]

Gretchen is so amazing. So proud of her and impressed by her integrity. I love that she demands that her voice is heard and won’t let anyone else write her narrative. I’m kind of amazed that such a powerful woman and mother could be raised within the church and have stayed so true to herself. My own LDS parents are quite crushed and soulless. It’s like they were held back developmentally by mormonism. They’ve been completely negligent and unable to step up when any of their six kids have run into issues at church or school. They let the cult own all the authority and don’t make their own choices. On an emotional and spiritual level, we’ve been on our own and raising each other.

[@meliossabatini3540]

I am sorry you fell for this hook line and sinker. My aunt introduced me to it at age 12. Then at 16 I lived with them for 4 years. Attended church meetings had missionaries come over even after I lived on my own. But I never ever fell for it. I was blessed enough to stay on the outside. I even have some lessons at home teaching. I am a born again Christian I was blessed enough to know truth and a good foundation

[@shannonpyne5349]

Watch out for some of the same unethical persuasions in the evangelical world-especially youth pastors

[@Sunset-chaser777]

WOCA is for women of all faiths! I’m a WOCA but because of the similarities between Catholicism and LDS...and I’ve lived in Utah for a decade. It really helped me deconstruct my environment

[@71suns]

What similarities specifically?

[@dianethulin1700]

I have a son who is ADHD and I can relate to trying to get help for him (mental health history on both sides as well as schizophrenia). His father died when he was young and I would have to deal with teachers and administrators who would react to me as though I was crazy, same as Gretchen is talking about here. To this day I am still dismayed that those who are supposed to be experts in childhood are so lousy and unsupportive. A few times I would be asked about where is his father was when all they had to do was make themselves familiar with him by reading his record. Gretchen I salute you in doing what you had to do to get him help!! You are amazing!

[@johnhorner1969]

Love this women. Wish all Mormons were as free thinking and inquisitive as she is While also being so loving and supportive to her kids and tribe. Such a wonderful person. So happy she shared her story.

[@kirstensims138]

The first 15 minutes I was a bit "on the fence". Gretchen came across like many overwhelmed mom's I've met (both inside and outside the LDS church). As a native Utahn AND "never Mormon", I sometimes roll my eyes at the stories told by friends who go through some bumpy times in the church. But, Gretchen overcame all of my preconceived biases. What a wonderful human being. She eloquently and passionately describes so many facets of why Mormonism can be both a light and dark force in the world. For a long time, I rationalized my friends' faith by thinking it was "symbolic", but as I watched friend after friend fall away from the Church, I couldn't understand why it seemed so hard for them to cut ties and run. Gretchen's children are lucky to have her. Also, edit to mention that I also attended a "religious" institution of higher education (Gonzaga University - Jesuit). The Jesuit education program that I went through actually intentionally allowed students the space to question the foundations of the Catholic Church. It felt extremely healthy as a "sort of Catholic" from Utah. I'm so sorry to hear of students who are interviewed about their faith in such a way where they learn to parrot talking points, rather than critically think. Her son sounds like a casualty, and she sounds like the right kind of mama bear.

[@jaysoncohen8250]

Wow ! This woman is INCREDIBLE ! What a fighter she is. An enthralling 4+ hours had me at the end of my seat as a nevmo. Thanks John.

[@pilarjohnson3326]

Me too!

[@nolinpowe]

If I was in your son's situation in Brazil, my mom would've personally flown up there and brought me back home, I have autism & ADHD and my mom does not play with anyone antagonizing people with disabilities

[@smb123211]

Gretchen for Queen!! Incredible story. Does everyone notice the same pattern in all these who left the faith (Mormon, Islam, Christian)? None was an average church goer. All were devout, in fact the most devout, whose curiosity drove them to learn more about their religions holy book, beliefs, history and founders. After all, it is intellectually dishonest to believe in something you know is not true.

[@lesliecan8]

What a feisty Goddess! I appreciate her courageous story.

[@owencraven7361]

I’d like to share a little background on the “Careful vs Causal” talk in order to hopefully provide some healing to anyone hurt by that motto. But first, WOW! What a powerful and emotional story. I’m so glad that you and your family are finding a healthier and happier space! Thank you for sharing your loving and courageous thoughts! Regarding the “Careful vs Causal” talk, my aunt delivered that address in General Conference. Now I want to say that she is a very loving, generous, intelligent, and kind Christian woman. (I truly can’t overstate how great she and her family are.) I believe she had the best of intentions delivering that talk, however, I too have felt hurt over the “Careful vs Causal” idea. You see, my grandpa coined that motto many years ago, and it became one of our family’s mottos. I can’t tell you the number of times that I heard this motto growing up. This motto caused me anxiety as I was always wondering whether I was being “careful” enough. It also caused me to unfairly judge others as I felt part of an elite “careful” family, unlike so many “causal” families and people. Ironically, I am now out of the church. Anyway, imagine my surprise when I hear our old family motto broadcasted for the entire church and then studied in Sunday School! So if anyone has felt hurt by this motto, I hope that by sharing some of the motto’s humble origins that I can take away some of the stress caused by the motto. My grandpa was very loving, but very conservative and deeply loyal to the church (he did serve as a General Authority and was very orthodox). This motto was simply created by him, and he used it in his family, and so I view the whole thing as simply someone’s family motto that got elevated in General Conference. If you feel that the motto doesn’t apply to you, then please don’t feel the need to live it. I mean if you do believe in a higher power, please do whatever you need to do to connect with it, don’t worry whether or not you are not being “careful” enough. Feel free to live both carefully and causally according to your individual needs and desires. For me, letting go of that motto and church expectations has been very healing. Anyway, thank you for sharing your experiences with that motto. Your feelings of anxiety and unfair judgment resonated with me, as that has also been my experience. Thank you again for your wonderful and heartfelt story. I’m so happy that you and your family have found health and safety and I love your work with the educational books. Thank you!

[@mormonstories]

Who are your aunt and grandma, Owen?

[@owencraven7361]

@@mormonstories My aunt is Becky Craven (she is the Second Counselor in the Young Women General Presidency). My grandpa is the late Rulon G. Craven (He served as a seventy, temple president, mission president, secretary to the 12 apostles under Pres. Benson and Director of the Aaronic Priesthood program). My grandma is the lovely Donna Craven. They are all wonderful people.

[@gretchendayauthor8763]

Thanks for sharing. One of my good friends and neighbors is one of her counselors. It's not the motto that was offensive... it was the way it was given in the talk because it was directly related to covenants. Are you careful with your covenants or casual with your Covenants? So I've actually responded to one of her counselors before because a lot of the rhetoric the leaders use is considered gaslighting when it's putting people down who leave. Her counselor used similar rhetoric in a post talking about the grass isn't greener on the other side. And I responded to that with the same response which is that's gaslighting and not healthy to put people down who leave your group or say they're less than or casual because they aren't going to the temple or making covenants like you. Thanks for sharing it's always good to get another perspective. I know her intention was good. I have no doubt of that. Most of the people in the church are amazing. I think it's the higher-ups that could do better and could avoid so much pain and divorce and family splitting up and lgbtq suicides. That's what I'm speaking out for. Thanks for sharing💜

[@owencraven7361]

@@gretchendayauthor8763 Agreed. I think we are on the same page. Pretty much whenever you have binary thinking it creates problems, especially when it is in regards to anyone's spiritual life. The "careful vs casual" statement does just that, it is binary thinking, it creates unneeded tension, unneeded judging, and unneeded pain. Thank you so much for addressing the problems this and other similar statements cause. I agree we need to get rid of gaslighting, false dichotomies and all the other problems of Mormonism, and focus on love!

[@jmt1335]

@@owencraven7361 Hey, Owen. Thanks for piping up and adding your voice here. High five. :) What reading your comment did for me was remind me of the interconnectivity of all of us Mormons/exmos/pimos.... We're connected by this experience and this story. It's done damage, it's done some good. It's a complex web of us who are linked together. I'm also out of the church. Putting the pieces of my life back together. Wishing you well!

[@Cessna8057F]

Gretchen Day, you should be THE speaker at next lds general conf! Thank you for this and John for having you on! You are the real definition of awesome. ❤️

[@judynoall1980]

I want to hear how your faith crisis/resignation has affected your husband/marriage.

[@lauracorsi3309]

Yeah me too. She must have not wanted to talk about that part because it’s usually a big focus of these faith crisis stories.

[@irishnomo]

Fascinating interview!! Thank you Gretchen… you are an amazing woman!

[@Mary9beth]

I love your favorite songs there mine too!!❤️❤️ “I’m small I know but wherever I go the grass grows greener still” that you now!!! Good job for listening to you intuition!! Thank you for sharing ❤️❤️❤️ John thanks for your talent and creating a platform for all of us to heal!!! ❤️

[@justshani8950]

This lady just spoke not just about mormons but alot of what's pushed on women. It took me forever to realize that I need to take care of me then I can take care of my family. You can't live your life for others.

[@elise12345]

Love this. Thank you for sharing so passionately and for all your work on protecting children. note* acrostic was the word Gretchen meant while talking about her post-mormon teaching, not anacronism. took me awhile to remember the right word and wanted to share if anyone else was finding it on the tip of their tongue!

[@darylstevenett1]

I love this episode!!! Thank you so very much John! One smart lady!!

[@blakeryder6060]

I learned that a women’s main job or duty is to multiply and replenish the earth. My whole up bringing . You are not the only one.

[@domijess]

So much fire in this interview, emotion, thoughtfulness, and life experience. One of my favorite episodes ever. Gretchen seems like an INCREDIBLE woman - her personality really came through in this interview. Also a great job to John Dehlin for letting her story shine here so much!

[@janwilson1497]

She is so compelling. It may be my favorite Mormon Stories yet.

[@sunnya8]

So much admiration for Gretchen.

[@Cocoon68]

Amen sister!! You said it as well as can be said!! I’m with ya!!

[@nolinpowe]

Gretchen how are your kids currently doing in 2023 I'm curious to know your story has really inspired me

[@tlcmeans]

Did no one leave your ward before you? How did you treat them, when you were a believer??? Your so hard on how they treated you, but you surely understand why...