The Faithless and FICKLE Rule in the Rings of Power - IN-DEPTH - Season 2, Ep 6, Part 2

[@frankvandorp2059]

In hindsight, it makes sense how everyone believed Halbrand was the King of the Southlands based on that one insignia he had. "Whoever has the insignia becomes king" is about as sensible as "whoever stands next to the bird becomes king".

[@buu88553]

Whoever is standing nearest to where the ring falls gets the ring of power.

[@buu88553]

Whoever is standing nearest to where the ring falls gets the ring of power.

[@Krapvag]

"how do we get th...." prophecy "how does she kn..." vision

[@haleyschreiter9746]

Very true! And Sauron didn't have his Palantir until the Third Age when the Nazgul (who don't yet exist) reconquered Minas Ithil/Morgul (which also does not yet exist).

[@VanessaNicholo]

The whole Elendil storyline in this episode was screaming Ned Stark and, oh my, I really can't get why they are trying to pair every single character with a love interest. I barely went through the scenes with Elendil and Miriel 😂

[@yellomoth]

You know, I endure an entire rings of power episode to watch these. You could at least make fun of it for longer.

[@michaelgrumbine1971]

We do at least 3 different shows about EACH Amazon episode! What more do you want with us?? 😂

[@yellomoth]

@@michaelgrumbine1971 I appreciate that, but I am making the sacrifice of watching Rings of Power. I think you should come to my house and hold me while I cry. It's only polite to offer.

[@chrism3790]

The funniest part was that they're supposed to be going after the Faithful (because they worship the Valar and that's a no-no), but then in the trial Pharazon is like "let the Valar decide" 🤦‍♂😂

[@TheOneRingcom]

Yes. EXACTLY!

[@sabineb.5616]

​@@TheOneRingcom, l appreciate what you are doing, because it means that l don't have to watch this show anymore 😀 I also appreciate that you don't focus on the racial issue too much. It's true that the forced diversity of this show doesn't make any practical 😂sense whatsoever. Tolkien's Middle Earth didn't look like downtown LA or Manhattan! Peter Jackson wasn't perfect - but he created a credible and very beautiful Middle Earth for his movies, which has aged very well. But the show-runners of ROP, who had much more money than Peter Jackson, didn't manage to build a plausible world! I don't even think that it looks very good! The design of the orcs is the best part of the show. Everything else looks artificial and too new and shiny - it looks like a theater production of a private high school for rich kids. And while l understand Amazon's ambition to introduce more diversity in order to court a worldwide audience of potential Amazon customers, l think it was done in an extremely inept way! I don't think that Tolkien has ever thought about diverse hobbits or Black or Asian elves in his wildest dreams! However, while he was old fashioned in many ways, Tolkien wasn't racist. And if someone would've asked him nicely if a few non-caucasian elves could be introduced into an adaptation of his writings, he might've contemplated the issue carefully - and I like to think that he might've gone to his writing desk in order to create plausible and interesting back stories for characters like Arondir! Tolkien's works weren't written in stone, and he tinkered with his creation until the day he died. He also said he regretted that he had never introduced a good Haradrim character. Well, creating a plausible back story for Arondir could have been the opportunity to introduce a few good Haradrim through the back door. Arondir could have been a way more interesting and layered character than the rather bland and boring Black-Legolas-imitation we got. But the show-runners couldn't be bothered to develop so much creativity, and they have simply thrown a number of non-caucasian characters into the blender in order to check the diversity box and be done with it! And IMO that's the worst way to increase diversity. That said, IMO the forced diversity is actually one of the minor problems of the show. ROP isn't bad because of a black female dwarf without a proper beard and a few non-caucasian elves who are used mainly for decorating the show! If these characters would be compelling - and Disa was actually compelling in the first season - most viewers would've stopped by now to complain about the pesky diversity issue. But unfortunately it didn't work out like that at all. Even if we decide to ignore Tolkien's writings completely and pretend that the show isn't an adaptation of Tolkien's works and that the names of well known Tolkien characters are just funny coincidences, the show would still be abysmally bad! The scriptwriters aren't able to create plausible narratives or pace the show well. And they cannot write good dialogues if they had to save their lives! ROP will definitely make tv history - but for all the wrong reasons! Amazon Studios have created a truly remarkable mystery box and a history lesson for aspiring producers and scriptwriters. How on (Middle) Earth was it possible to make such an abysmally bad tv-show, although money wasn't an issue. Jeff Bezos had made sure that Amazon Studios has the biggest budget in tv-history. But ROP wasn't just about luring in new Prime subscribers who would then go shopping and subsequently forget to cancel their Prime memberships. ROP was also Jeff Bezos' personal vanity project! I fully believe that he wanted "his" show to be truly great. But he has apparently no idea how great tv is made. I also suspect that he isn't a great fan of fantasy literature or a connaisseur of movies and tv-shows. That's hardly surprising because he probably never had a lot of time for reading novels and watching tv-shows. But wasn't he at all curious what Amazon Studios had done with all that money? Didn't he watch a few episodes or ask someone who has the necessary know-how in order to have some kind of quality control? He could have asked his own son! 😉 Maybe, we will get an honest insider analysis or a tell-all book many years from now 😊 It’s probably a text-book case of a bunch of folks who were involved in a project which demanded skills and qualifications they didn't have. But they told each other constantly how great they were doing, how progressive they were and that everything was a-ok! And in that comfortable, dimly lit warm climate nobody dared to spoil the party by speaking up. Nobody dared to point out that the emperor is stark naked! Maybe, there was an Annatar who clouded the perception of those who were involved in this project, and Celebrimbor's forging of the faulty rings of power is actually a disguised documentary about the making of ROP 😅 And since everybody's supreme boss neglected to inspect his expensive product, or wasn't knowledgeable enough to realize that it was a pile of horse dung, the faulty plane went up into the air, although it must've been obvious that it would crash. Tolkien fans had been skeptical for a long time. But l think the show is even worse than the Tolkien purists suspected. I thought that it might be possible that the show might be interesting and worthwile to watch if we forget about Tolkien and his lore. There could still have been great story telling and interesting and relatable characters. Well - that wasn't the case, and since the foundations are rotten, the remaining three seasons cannot repair the show.

[@TheOneRingcom]

Agreed. The show is so poorly constructed and told that the forced diversity is like bad icing on an even worse cake.

[@sabineb.5616]

@@TheOneRingcom , l like your description of the show :"bad icing on an even worse cake" 😉 As l said in my looooong comment about the pesky diversity issues of ROP: IMO having a diverse cast isn't bad per se. A character like Arondir could have actually been interesting, if the show-runners and the scriptwriters had created a plausible back story for him. Think about it: nobody would conceive a tv-show about Vikings in Iceland and cast non-caucasian actors and actresses without giving them a back story which explains why they look different. It could even be an important part of the plot. And frankly, l think that would be far more respectful than simply pretending that different looks and skin colours are just a quirk of the gene lottery! I heard that the wonderful animated movie trilogy "How To Train Your Dragon" will be re-made as a life-action movie - and an African American actress has been cast as Astrid, who is blond and blue-eyed int the original movies - which is perfectly adequate because the human protagonists are Vikings! Will the producers do the right thing and give Astrid a back story which explains her origins? I would not count on it, although it would not be difficult at all. Vikings have covered huge areas with their boats, and they have picked up people with very diverse ethnic backgrounds as slaves, spouses and even as fellow journey men. But today's producers think that these things don't matter in the fantasy genre.

[@RunesandReapers]

You just know that a mid level manager came down to the writers room and said "Hey all, love Elendil not taking a knee, so brave! Love it. I think we should do the same thing for Queen Mirial." Writers -"But...he's already taking the sea serpent risk" Mid Level Manager "And he still is but we want to make sure she's also showing how brave she is. And being the Queen and in love with Elendil this will really make it a WOW moment. We really need that Wow. WOW moment." (sips from stanley cup) Writers: "Well...the thing..." Upper managment "Are we going to have an issue here?" AND SCENE.

[@upschutt4842]

It's Game of Rings, too

[@KingofMoorland]

The comments at the end on whether the show is going to make it to 5 seasons. On one hand you're right, this isn't Amazon's main business and more of a vanity project for Bezos. The money is there to be burned and I don't think he will ever admit it's a failure and will write a billion dollars off rather than cancel it and admit defeat. On the other hand the show runners have made so many nonsensical changes to lore and timelines already that to see it through to it's conclusion they are going to have to deviate more and more from what we understand the second age to be. It's going to be like a slow motion car crash watching these inept charlatans write themselves into cul-de-sacs and contradictions to try and keep things moving forward. Love your reviews guys. There's a certain satisfaction watching real Tolkien fans highlight all the ways this show utterly fails to even remotely represent one of the great works of literature.

[@givemecake5496]

The Valar were instructed NO TO meddle in the business of men and elves etc. and here the valar are sending a sea monster to judge whether a neumenorian is guilty of a crime or not 🙄

[@mortdeath1674]

So if the eagle swoops down and lands near the sea monster does that make the sea monster the new king of Numenor?

[@SingWhileYouMay]

The sea is always right, and giant eagles are clueless, apparently.

[@TETASARAIVACS]

Guys, it’s like paper-scissor-stone: sea monster beats big bird!

[@zirkalda9502]

At this point the show has done nothing but show why Valar should stay OUT of Middle Earth’s affairs because all of their actions have led to negative results. 1. Make petals fall? Get a bunch of Numenoreans killed and injured at Mordor. 2. Send an Eagle? Get Marx endorsed by mistake. 3. Have a sea monster decide guilt? Create an easily exploited justice system. 4. Rock a boat? Elves keep the evil Rings. 5. Send a wizard to middle earth only for him to turn evil? Send another one only without his memory, control of his powers, or basic faculties so he can’t do his job.

[@frankvandorp2059]

Also 6. Wait to long getting the boat carrying Galadriel into Valinor, so she returns to Middle Earth to convince Sauron to be evil again, and then cause the Sack of Eregion.

[@Luke-kj1rj]

My favourite TV show is watching actual tolkien fans slander this show on youtube

[@michaelgrumbine1971]

You’re welcome.

[@Luke-kj1rj]

@@michaelgrumbine1971 there are scarcely words to describe how horrific it is but i am enjoying the attempts/breakdowns

[@milutinzivkovic9314]

You and me, either

[@leonnunhofer3453]

So the sea monster puked her out, and that's why she is the queen now? Lmao 😂

[@JackChurchill101]

My assumption is the the writers thought: The sea monster is wild. But Ulmo or his servant Maiar can stop it if they see you and want you to live. However, Sauron, also had that power and can stop it. I'm exhausted by the length of mental gymnastics I have to go through to make the show make any sense, but like a nauseating logic puzzle, the mind still whirls. Could they not say "the gods can prevent the monster from devouring you, if they deem you righteous" but they just decided to leave that out. The rest of the scene however, the set up and the payoff, are all still baffling.

[@cromcccxvi3787]

Nuemamoronian

[@majkus]

It is inexplicable that J. D. Payne, a devout Mormon, is seemingly unwilling to seriously portray the religious aspects of Tolkien's legendarium, ideas that are so fundamental to the story of Númenor and the forging of the Rings (and the seduction of the Nine to reject the Gift of the One to Men, a phrase we will never hear). If they needed a Mormon, they should have hired Orson Scott Card, with whom I disagree on many, many subjects, but who does understand Tolkien. And, by the way, if the King's Men, unlike the Faithful, reject the Elves and the Valar, why in the name of mercy are these same people so eager to accept the judgment of the Valar as expressed by the Eagle and Sea-worm? What is the actual nature of the schism among the Númenoreans if not this?

[@Chociewitka]

I thing in RoP the sea moster in S1 was implementing the ban of the Valar forbidding men to sail further West than the sight of Numenor, and Sauron was to disgusting for it to eat him, he stank - it has also rejected the elven rings when Cirdan tried to sink those

[@Chociewitka]

was the shrine not in cave just by the sea, at the sea water lavel? Where would such an aqueduct lead to?

[@frankiesomeone]

The Plot-antir will show the viewer something that's needed to move the story forward

[@RB-sz9gv]

This show is much better than the works of Tolkien, which I have burned, since they are no longer needed because the rings of power is unbelievably awesome.

[@eteline_music]

They could make a sea monster vs big bird spin-off to decide who gets to be king or queen, like a pound shop Godzilla movie 😁

[@weekendatbidens8652]

The sea beast shall now be called, “The Beast-Judge of Mandos”.

[@saturn580]

I suppose citizens of a society ruled by giant monsters would have to be politically flexible. I mean, how the hell do you vote a Kraken out of office? 🤣

[@AnnoyingCritic-is7rp]

Also, why is Elendil innocent simply because Miriel isn't eaten?

[@EnygmaRecords]

I’m betting Miriel will marry Pharazôn to save Elendil’s life and he will be banished from Numenor

[@christianefiorito3204]

The episode before it was an eagle who flew away who decided Pharazon as new ruler. In the books it is clear. Miriel is the new queen. She is pharazons cousin. He forces her to marry him to get to the throne.

[@Chociewitka]

the figurine was of Nienna?

[@NudlemanJones]

"Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony! You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery [monster didn't eat you]!"

[@TheOneRingcom]

PERFECT! 😂

[@NudlemanJones]

@@TheOneRingcom That's all I could think about when you guys were talking about the scene . . . 🤣

[@TETASARAIVACS]

Kemen as in Kementari?

[@carlmcclatchie2122]

Numenor will resolve its political issues by communing with the great penquin, this mystical creature is both a bird and a sea creature, but it will side with the faithful as it no longer flies. If they use the mighty albatross they will get a hung parliament.

[@leonnunhofer3453]

The rotten tomatoes score is better than season 1, because people, who didn't like season 1, didn't bother to give season 2 a try. Just the "fans" and content creators are left 🤷‍♂️

[@TheOneRingcom]

Hmm. That's a really good point. The only ones left watching it are the ones who someone got through season one and still liked it.

[@givemecake5496]

I simply watch it to hate on it.

[@michaelgrumbine1971]

@@leonnunhofer3453 I believe you’re right about who’s leaving the Rotten Tomatoes reviews…which makes it even funnier that it STILL has only a 48% ‘fresh’ rating. 💀

[@Kendro311]

The sea is incorrect!

[@Runsfrombears]

8:21 hey if she weighs the same as a duck she’s made of wood. And therefore!!!?????

[@RianD-xp3kk]

A WITCH!

[@polemeros]

Defiled by the PC racecasting.

[@monicad99]

Andromeda predates Clash of the Titans by a couple of millennia; henry the viii stripped down the churches of all their ornaments and possessions and catholic iconography when he changed to protestantism(eventhough he himself, at his core, was still catholic inclined in terms of belief); the americans tore down penn station, an architectural jewel, to build madison square garden. and, don’t they say “the sea is always right” because they believe the sea belongs to the Vala Ulmo, and through him, to Eru Iluvatar? i mean, if you’re a believer, you would believe that whatever God/the Valar gives you, it must be right, or deserved, or part of a greater plan, i suppose. no?

[@AMore429]

Actually you’re right, religion is much worse than what they showed 😅

[@voljohe]

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