The Fall of DTM: How Germany’s Top Racing Series Died

[@MyILoveMinecraft]

I loved dtm because they used to run hot versions of affordable cars. DTM should be running C classes, audi A4s, 3 series and alfa romeo gullias. Not lambos and 911s

[@adrianbalboa5353]

The 3 series would be basicaly a BMW M4 gt3.

[@Mr.Marbles]

smart fortwo DTM version when?

[@MyILoveMinecraft]

@@adrianbalboa5353 depends how they set the rules up, I'd hope for more gt4 like cars with more power. Also mandating 4 door's could keep the manufactures which aren't "bread and butter" out

[@lansiman]

before lambo and 911, they're already a prototype race bespoke car with a fake skin that looks like affordable car

[@Ixxlostinabox]

Or if they do want to run the lambos and 911s they should be different to the GT3 cars

[@gammagirl1992]

As a German, I'm sad to see what they've done with the DTM. It used to be so cool and really exciting. Now it's just another boring GT3 championship...

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

It's one of the better GT3 based championships, but I agree that without the uniqueness it's a less interesting series.

[@Jasongilliar]

Same, DTM cars where just beautifull to look at. Amazing looking, now the closest we have is the super gt, whats funny because they raced together in 2020. But i dont even think i can watch thouse in germany, i watch everything thats streamed on youtube plus f1 obviosly but i doubt they stream. But yeah DTM was special.

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

@Jasongilliar Have you ever seen TC2000?

[@petouser]

​@Jasongilliar SuperGT is definitely one of the most fun motorsports series out there. It's a good mix of competitiveness, action, seriousness, and some chaos. Unfortunately, they do only show the Japanese recording one week after the race. There is a subscription-based live stream in English though.

[@motogp4658]

Well, GT3 provides one of the most exciting races around the world, you name the series, so in terms of money, attracting teams, and having a competitive championship, is no surprise why the DTM choose the class, it was that or killing DTM for good, but the cost was loosing the uniqueness of what was DTM.

[@HeyFella582]

I went to several DTM races at Zandvoort in the 2000s. Back then it was like the whole of Germany was at the Dutch coast. The series was very popular. Caravans, motorhomes and German cars everywere. The stands were packed. It was a sight to behold. I went with my nephew and brother in the summer of 2023. We had grandstand seats and it wasn't even fully packed. Germany no longer cares. Such a shame.

[@danieldorn9989]

No fun allowed when fighting climate change They dont even let F1 drive in the country anymore

[@petouser]

Germany fell pretty much out love with motorsports after the Schumi era. Even the Vettel era couldn't save it. Due to this, whole German motorsports struggles. The lack of manufacturer's interest in DTM doesn't help either.

[@beverly_hills_cop5142]

At least with F1, popularity took a big hit when the channel RTL gave away the broadcasting rights to Sky and the Schuhmacher Skiing incident didn’t help. Big part of every Sport in Germany is Storytelling and RTL or RAN are exceptional at it.

[@petouser]

@@beverly_hills_cop5142 Also, DTM used to be shown in German national TV ARD. While Pro7 and its online platform RAN are big, nothing beats the viewership of national public broadcast in Germany.

[@PIERS212]

I can sympathise with this, I went to a flyaway race at Brands Hatch in 2006 and the crowd was sold out even in England. I also went to the dtm race in Zandvoort in 2023… I was kinda disappointed by how much less attention the series gets. DTM had much more attention in the UK at the time than our own touring car series… the worlds going backwards.

[@Duncan94]

The insane aero on pre-2021 DTM cars is what I loved about them, very unique and the cars looked amazing. Sad that it's now just a standard GT3 series especially when GT Masters already exists in Germany.

[@SwineBrothers]

The problem is, now it's just another gt3 series. And not even the only gt3 series in Germany. I get why it had to change, but...plus it's not broadcast on KZbin in the states any more.

[@Magic_Kamikaze]

... then try vpn - i (in germany) was able (without vpn) to watch every dtm race live in the english dtm live stream

[@SwineBrothers]

@@Magic_Kamikaze Oh I know, I use a vpn. It's just annoying that I have to.

[@taiefmiah]

This is honestly the biggest source of decline for racing series in general. In addition to cars becoming a status symbol tool, where brand and model heirarchy are worth more socially than a lot of the features. People don't see racing anymore on TV and it is not easy to access online. The marketing sucks. F1 brought back its popularity with netflix series and films, to make it relevant to the modern day.

[@iPuls3]

Yeah, racing needs to be freely accessible to draw in crowds, they're gaining nothing with their exclusivity. I mean even NASCAR is available on KZbin, and F1 is available on ESPN.

[@darren2514fv]

The series from the 1990s onwards were trying to get a Japanese manufacturer into the series Toyota was the one mentioned several times over the years as Toyota has a European base for the Motorsport operation in Germany

[@frankj0484]

If Toyota enters the DTM for years, it could've took over the Aston Martin spot since 2020 with the Supra, same as they replaced the iconic LC500 in Super GT's GT500 class. Sadly, the costs have ruined the Class 1 which made DTM replaced them with GT3 cars.

[@wolvemedia]

As someone who attended the DTM for several years now, i can say, i don't care what cars they drive. For me it's the racing, which is, compared to other series, really good and offers the "door to door racing" the fans wanted to see (which in class1 was questionable, because of all the aero). The DTM was always a fan series. In no other series were you able to get this close to the cars, drivers or even mechanics. I even watched a race from inside the pits in the garage of Rene Rast (And no i didn't pay extra for this, i was just at the right place, to the right time). And also if you attend a full raceweekend, you have the whole 3 days of racing with multiple series from TCR, Porsche Cup, DTM classics and others.

[@ozanbaskan5524]

Better than super cars in Australia?

[@Andreas27696]

Yes it's "only another GT3 series" by now but: who should pay for anything else? It's already super difficult for the teams to find the budgets for a season now Manufacturers don't want to put that much money in anymore as they did in the past even if Manufacturers would, you still had the same issue as the DTM basically had all their live: The fear of sudden death when some drop out and most importantly: The racing is really good and tight! For me the best GT3 Racing at the moment

[@patthonsirilim5739]

GT3/GT4 cars are amazing there realtivaly cheap there very quick they dont only look like there road counterpart but are actully base on them there also easy on the budget for a million dollars you can run a gt3 car for almost 3 season you cant do that shit with custom build prototype and i rather see bmw ferrari lambo mclaren aston lexus toyota mercedez honda porsche and audi ducking it out on track racing with cars that still share an engine and chassis with the road going car that is on sale.

[@ExNought]

@@patthonsirilim5739 I am with you and Andreas on this. I only started watching DTM after it changed to GT3 and honestly? The racing is great! Maybe better than most other racing series! The qualifications are usually very close and they fight. Yes, sure I don't know what McLaren did this year with Dörr Motorsport, they consistently were in the rear during races, but even then, they did some great times! Also: Better to have good racing in "another GT3 championship" than no DTM at all and another dead motorsport in Germany. Happy to have them still. Also the 'feeder series' that accompany DTM have proven to be cool! LMP2, DTM classic, GT4, M2 Cup, NXT GEN all were awsome! (Yes, ESPECIALLY NXT GEN!)

[@Ixxlostinabox]

I'll start by saying I agree with everything you said, but the problem seems to be that DTM doesn't have a unique identity if they just run the same GT3 cars as IMSA for example.

[@StuffAndMore]

@@Ixxlostinabox It is not just "another GT3 series" imo, it is a unique format of single driver 55 min sprints, all other major GT3 series the car is shared between drivers with FIA rankings restricting lineups or endurance races, DTM makes it way more of a driver series

[@gavalant366]

The GT3 era was meant to bring stability yet the entry lists have still been really volatile each season. Starting with 19, 24, 27, and then a big drop to only 20 cars showing up in 2024 after Audi quits GT3 for F1 and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Dörr Motorsports is gonna quit soon because of McLaren giving them no help whatsoever like what happened to Pfaff Racing in IMSA.

[@fioralbannach6647]

Agree that DTM is not what it used to be, but it still offers some fantastic racing in its current form. It is also popular and the races get good crowds, with top drivers for e.g., Rene Rast, Mirko Bortolotti, Maro Engel competing. I think DTM has made the best of difficult conditions, and adapted to produce some of the most exciting racing we have today.

[@fengler212]

I followed the last 3 season closely and the racing was a spectacle. not perfect but far more entertaining than a lot of other GT series

[@AbrahamArthemius]

One of the biggest reasons for DTM dropping Class One regulation is "Manufacturer Loyalty". This is what makes Super GT still able to use that regulation in a stable manner with Toyota, Honda, & Nissan are all coming in to fund the series.

[@AbrahamArthemius]

Not to mention, Super GT as a series is more of a pseudo-endurance series with multiple drivers doing stints for one car and a two class system with GT500 & GT300. So they have full on support from big manufacturers in GT500, while they have support from smaller manufacturers and tuning shops or dealerships that form the teams in GT300. You wouldn't find that in DTM.

[@Maenfy]

Well there were privateer teams in DTM for a really long time, that didn't really work though since they had to use outdated cars and it was really expensive.

[@merobo5066]

@@Maenfy There also were the WRT Audis in 2019 which had the same machinery as the manufacturer teams (Abt, Rosberg and Phoenix), but didn't get benefits like sharing set up data (which based on something I read earlier this year, at least Abt weren't the biggest fan of due to feeling as if they gave away their advantage)

[@SBroadcastv]

Of course, Super GT has a much more adequate approach, particularly in the relations between manufacturers and teams. But thank the stupid Western "football" mentality of fans first and foremost. The consumer decides what product to consume, not the manufacturer.

[@lucasrabelo937]

3:22 This kind of aero profile could be seen in Stock Car Brasil between 2010-2019. In that time the cars here looked closer to a DTM car, but we used a Chevrolet(that had nothing in common with the street model and V8 engines). But in 2020 the series took the "closer to the street model" route

[@ArnoldTriyudho]

And Peugeot 408 until 2016 season

[@orfmark5185]

I went in 2021 to the dtm in hokenheim and it was incredible. The sound and the competition was very nice

[@celestialdesign9611]

I was just thinking about how much I missed those exotic looking sedans

[@jonniejones876]

Back in the 90’s it was unbelievably good

[@edugj23]

The "temporary" adoption of GT3 rules became permanent, and there's no other choice in the short term. In my view, DTM is still around because of the brand, which is still strong enough to attract top drivers.

[@ivaneurope]

One correction - Germany HAD a TCR championship and in the first few year it had grid sizes up to 40+ cars, but dwindling grids and the fact that the then ADAC GT Masters (which was then merged with DTM once both were under the same umbrella) was far more popular, the series was killed off. A potential re-boot was planned, but scrapped. While the GT3 class is still thriving, that's not the case in TCR - the cars are based on C-segment family cars which is now facing extinction as car manufacturers are heading towards either EV's or SUV's (some of the best selling vehicles in Europe are SUV's), which also hampers the FIA's rallying pyramid as the cars used in the World Rally Championship are for the most part based on the smaller B-segment (subcompact class) which are also phased out (the Ford Fiesta ended production in 2022, which forced long time partner M-Sport to use the Puma crossover as the base for their next top tier machine, while the Fiesta family of rally cars below the top range look outdated).

[@JakeSimRacing]

It just seems like ADAC is reorganizing things quite a bit. How do you think the EVs will play a role in the future?

[@SwineBrothers]

Also, DTM was going to go to an electric series at one time. And let's not forget the 5 years of NASCAR announcing there would be an American DTM series.

[@frankj0484]

It would be awesome if Ford, Chrysler and GM join the Class 1 programs. Luckily, Super GT is still using this kind of race cars, so maybe they're trying to bring the Class 1 cars into worldwide racing series like GT3 cars do.

[@merobo5066]

@@frankj0484 fun fact, GM even had DTM cars thanks to Opel (which they no longer own, but used to when they were in DTM). My personal favourite is the 2001 Astra V8 Coupé

[@puma-racer0195]

TransAm is kind of like a American DTM Series to me just without the ground effects

[@ananastudio]

I want DTM to comeback someday...

[@AS19Motorsport]

Good video. For me (as a non-car guy) it isn’t a problem that they now use GT3s - the racing is still exciting after all - but I can understand that a lot of the traditional fanbase feels disillusioned. Heck, you see that in any DTM comments section nowadays. What still makes the series unique to me is the fact that, contrary to the other GT series in Europe, they still only have one driver per car, making viewers much more inclined to root for personalities and look out for rivalries

[@taiefmiah]

yeh, WEC was quite good because you can get team stories going because of how long it pans out

[@pavelskrylnikov9658]

The most hilarious thing about GT3 era DTM is that it is only technically D and M, and absolutely not T. Also, i used to watch it in my childhood, along with some Clio and Carrera cup racing, and i like tin tops more than open wheels since than. So it is really sad that DTM flopped, the example of Japan shows that it was purely because of bad management.

[@hkonhelgesen]

Exactly. DTM was, and should be, about fast family cars. Not useless supercars. When using rules and cars from another championship, it should probably be fossile WTCR or electric ETCR.

[@Maenfy]

Well Class One cars also weren't Touring cars, those were Prototypes. DTM lost it's "T" somewhere in the 90s.

[@SBroadcastv]

The most hilarious thing is when people get confused in terminology and don`t understand that "touring" is much closer to "grand touring" in its idea than to silhouette prototypes. Although I myself prefer the silhouette prototypes, as a kind of highest ("grandest", "greatest") level in the development of the idea.

[@StuffAndMore]

DTM stopped being a touring car seris when they dropped Group A regs and went to silhouette racing in the early 90's (the current name is just DTM no acronym anymore either)

[@ttv_pekka_]

As far as I know, Mercedes left DTM at the end of the 2018 season, because they announced their entry for the Formula E which needed alot of investment. As DTM was also very expensive they decided to pull out of the DTM to focus on their development in the Formula E

[@Giraffe537]

We still have Super GT and Australia Supercars which uses silhouette cars, lets hope they don't die out soon

[@adrianbalboa5353]

Australian Supercars never use to be silhouette cars and now there boring as fuck.

[@Jackinacox]

yeah Australian Supercars are not what they used to be either.

[@Deutschmaschine0]

@@adrianbalboa5353 I don't want to hurt you but Supercars are silhouette cars since the introduction of the COTF in 2013.

[@ZeugmaP]

What I don't understand is how Japanese manufacturers can make Class 1 work in SuperGT while German manufacturers totally gave up. Some of them are the biggest automobile groups of the world (hello VW ??) and it's still too expensive ? That said, even with GT3 machinery I would say the series hasn't entirely lost its soul, the format and the rules are still unique and it's very entertaining, thanks to the drivers.

[@Maenfy]

Japanese manufacturers mainly race in Japan. Only Toyota is really going international (WEC & WRC), Honda and Nissan are barely doing anything outside of Super GT.

[@ZeugmaP]

@@Maenfy Well, Honda are in F1, Indycar and IMSA, although it's the American division of the brand, so I don't know how independent they are from the main branch.

[@danielkiss7003]

Asian market is huge There's just more motorsport fans in that region Also i think F1 has got lot of the fans in europe Most people i know only follow F1 and they don't care about any other european racing series

[@judenoda9412]

Super GT GT500 sill uses Silhouette cars, I hope DTM can go back

[@frankj0484]

The costs have ruined the DTM popularity sadly which is why they dumped the Class 1 and switched to GT3 cars. In Brazil, a motorsport series called 'Stock Car Pro Series'. They also use silhouette cars too but their body platform seems very identical to average street cars. I also wish DTM, Super GT and Stock Car can merge to create a worldwide racing similar to GT World and F1 including racing in 24h of Nurburgring. Super GT has 2 class categories like FIA WEC does but they possess hypercars(LMH) as rebranded LMP1.

[@adityairawan1843]

Class 1 Silhouette is damn too expensive. I wish they adopt and improvise upon Mother Chassis instead.

[@SBroadcastv]

​@@frankj0484 No need for fantasies. Stock Car is much more primitive and closer to NASCAR than to the DTM Class 1 silhouette prototype. As the experience of Germany and Japan has shown, mentality is very important. In Japan, everything was done adequately in this case and they (and we) got an excellent result. In the west, they chased a stupid show to please not too smart fans who are used to watching football. The result is predictable.

[@JoshuaC923]

Lets hope Super GT lives long and prosper

[@ForburyLion]

I'm British, We pretty much invented the Super Touring era and the 90's were great because we had 10 manufacturers battling door to door, However we also loved the DTM because the cars looked great and were monsters, The Opel Calibra, Alfa 155 and Mercedes A class. Then the money side of things went crazy in both the BTCC and DTM and that's what killed them.

[@VWPirates]

Our racing fans are rather weird in a nice way. We all have great memories from the racing which impressed us when we were younger and want to experience it again. In Formula 1, older fans want the naturally aspirated cars back. In MotoGp they want 2 stroke bikes and ban rider aides. I've been watching DTM since the inception of the series and thoroughly enjoyed all the races but the racing in it's current GT3 format is of the most exciting I've seen. The live coverage from every conceivable angle including in-car action is better than ever. We also see an international line-up of top drivers. The driver commitment and aggression is spectacular! The cars are so closely balanced/matched in performance which leaves it all to the driver to drive the wheels off it and pit crew to win races. I'm an old bat who still races the cars I loved of yester year but I can also appreciate and enjoy fantastic current DTM racing. All I need on DTM race days is a vpn and beer.

[@denergodok]

DTM didn't die, it just changed. I agree that the championship was really something to behold and it was very interesting to watch, but the changes has also been positive imo. I see that a lot of people don't like it because "it's just another GT3 championship", and I see your point. But GT3 is also one of the most interesting classes to watch imo, because it's so close and you get so many good battles. Also, there's so many manufacturers in it, so it's a good variety of cars that has different strengths and weaknesses and the very most of them will be able to perform high up through an entire season. WIth that said tho, I would love to see a comback of the old type cars if it also meant that more manufacturers joined. But with so many different championships and different classes to take part in, I see why GT3 is so popular and that it has the success it has. And to be honest, the championship still holds its status and attracts the top performing drivers, so I still find it very interesting to watch.

[@Ramtamtama]

It may be seen as just another GT3 series, but it's a sprint series rather than an endurance one. It also carries more Super Licence points than any other GT3 series.

[@mdrc3288]

Being a petrolhead kid back in the 90`s i sometimes loved DTM more than F1!!!😃☝The competition, the innovation, the drivers simply amazing.🌟The cars looked like a normal series car on extra unusual steroids screaming for victory.Nowadays UFOs are racing with drivers comment always the same cassette. Unfortunately DTM lost its earth like touch and the audience doesn`t care anymore!! 🤗😕

[@TheTomatenfritz3000]

DTM is still the GT3 racing series I enjoy watching the most. So I don't mind the changes. It's the superb racing that counts.

[@lanarkorras4411]

I actually didn't mind them switching to GT3 cars, but after the shit show that was the 2021 finale I just couldn't bring myself to continue following the series. :(

[@AdminAbuse]

I lost all interest since it became a GT3 series, it is too generic for me personally to care about. I already watch WEC and IMSA and see enough GT3 cars as is

[@frankj0484]

The Class1/GT500 and LMH/LMDH cars are currently massively increase popularity and fans. The GT3 cars are everywhere like average road cars but I love it because it's more of a racing diversity.

[@fengler212]

well you are missing out. I follow WEC and the difference in racing and drama is hugh. Two absolutly different worlds

[@StuffAndMore]

you sould give it a try it is way more chaotic and faster pacem it still has wheel to wheel dor banging racing like older DTM

[@merobo5066]

A few things that I liked about silhouette DTM (besides the cars): The live team radio (which did survive for the first 2 GT3 years, sadly the ADAC takeover took that from us), ranging from memorable (infamous "Timo, schieb ihn raus" or the Timo Glock rant against Mercedes in 2018) to interesting things like drivers being directed to their starting boxes The later DRS rules (it took some time getting there). Not only did you have to be within a second of the car ahead at the line, you also had a limited number of laps during which you could deploy DRS (number depending on track), adding an additional bit of strategy (iirc there also were no official DRS zones but 3 uses per DRS lap, but those effectively resulted in de facto DRS zones, though that might've been changed at some point). I'm fully aware that DRS itself isn't the most popular thing, just think this implementation is a nice way of handling it.

[@Sp4mMe]

I'll never understand the "just another GT3 series". Which other GT3 series does sprint races with professional drivers and many of the top privateer teams again? Because I'd certainly watch it ...

[@Creeepz-ii7fk]

i got tickets to see it live at hockenheim in the last season they had "prototypes"(2020), mercedes was gone already and aston martin had a car that was bad, but it was a sight to behold altogether still. loud fast and uncanny, as they looked like streetcars and wentt 300kph. i understand why they went gt3 as a temporary soluion as the manufacturers didnt want to spent money on a "useless" engine, butr bmw using it for the gtp/lmh is a banger sign, aswell as talks about merging with supergt OR going electric and being the first electric GT series. Well see, i hope they know what to do with the name edit: didnt know about the thing making mercedes leave being turbos- while turbos are the future of combustion engines. Classic German decision, not going for the future and sticking with outdated tech.

[@ManlyBalls1946]

I agree with others that's its just another GT3 championship when they switched specs. Now that WEC is getting better and better every year. I get my Hypercar and GT3 racing in one hit.

[@derpinguin7003]

DTM died in the 90s, when they changed from production cars to silhouettes.

[@eliasmaissour437]

The recent rise in cost in all racing series need to be studied. Basically every single racing series that wasn't using common regs was forced to change because of cost. How hard is it to put a cap on that and how the hell is so much money lost in r & d

[@JOHANNESwhoelse]

As usual, Mercedes is to blame for everything. They pulled out in 2019 and gave Audi ideas, so they pulled out too in 2021. Mercedes ruined the original DTM/ITC with their reckless spending, pushing Alfa Romeo and Opel into debt. Mercedes ruined prototype racing with their Sauber-Mercedes sportscar programme, effectively forcing other manufacturers to develop F1-Engines to keep up, prompting them to just enter F1 instead. Whenever you invite Mercedes to your party, don't be surprised if it ends sooner than planned!

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

Pretty sure it was the FIA that forced Group C to adopt the 3.5 litre formula, not MB.

[@nanobyte5567]

Mercedes have been in F1, and Audi were in WEC, and both series were really expensive. Plus, VW had to pay billions for their diesel controversy. They know the balance sheet and obviously the ROI was shit for the former DTM regulations. Don’t blame the manufacturer either when the regulations allow such freedom as you mentioned. That’s just business.

[@neo1711]

Why are you blaming Mercedes for a ruleset that old man Bernie and the fia made? Plus it was Peugeot that benefited from those rules.

[@SBroadcastv]

You seem to have forgotten that Mercedes revived the DTM in 2000. And the "coma" of the serie in the mid-1990s is more the work of Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone, who always tried to destroy the competitors to Formula 1. And in the end, we should not forget about the underlying reason for this - negligent Western fans who choose DRShow instead of sport.

[@jonhill7081]

As someone who has been to a lot of the races this year, I can say it's still a well supported series. Sure, it isn't getting the same numbers as it was in the 90s, but nor is pretty much any racing series besides F1. DTM was on free-to-air TV all this year (Pro-7) and the Hockenheim finale in October packed the seating allocation for both Saturday and Sunday. It's easy to cry that the cars aren't unique anymore - same can be said throughout motorsport and it's just the times we live in - but DTM is competitive and there is good on-track action at every race. As a motorsport fan of over 30 years, the racing itself is what I go to see, not the aesthetics of the cars.

[@阿尔达]

I was effected so much by these kind of videos and never gave a chance to the new DTM for a long time but when I did, it became my favorite GT3 series with the format and drivers. I know the previous DTM was something else but not gonna lie it was boring when there were only Audi and BMW in its later years.

[@las10plagas]

have just seen a Baby Benz the other day :) but old M3's have become very rare here in germany, I think.

[@moleyballin2270]

The BTCC in the UK is still showing how today, a series can use unique cars not seen in any other championship whilst still being successful and financially viable, and with manufacturers interest. But I think its now too late for the DTM to go back to being a true touring car championship, as moving to TCR/BTCC style cars would lose lots of the drivers and manufacturer interest, so any route other than GT3 seems impossible

[@dominicbarden4436]

I think the BTCC has it's own issues at the moment, what with hybrid power coming in a couple of years ago and now being dropped for 2025, and a pretty sharp drop in grid size from 27 cars in 2023 to just 20 in '24. Still produces great racing though.

[@tees6675]

@dominicbarden4436 2024 was a great season, and grids are expected to go back up to 22/24 cars for 2025. Bear in mind, team hard made up 6 entries in 2023 and they were pretty useless so their loss wasn't that much of an issue lol

[@jestifizzle]

Everyone saying that its just another GT3 championship...yes, GT3 is literally the most exciting racing format in the world. Look at all the endurance races, the Rennen24, the fanatec GT3 series etc etc. They are way more exciting than what the original DTM format used to be

[@recarsion]

My perspective as a new DTM fan. I understand why a lot of earlier fans are disillusioned with the current state of things, such a huge change will always ruin it for those who loved the old stuff, just like F1 has been ruined for many including me with the V6 era back in the day. However I love GT3 cars and the DTM is not "just another" GT3 series but possibly the best one, up there with GT World Challenge for sure and I'll be watching in 2025.

[@justinmau6419]

For me it’s another gt series like with the adac gt one

[@richardhammock2829]

Makes me glad Super GT exists

[@jdmimportlogistics]

Europe can barely afford heat let alone have interest in racing. I attended a couple GTWC events in the U.S. (abysmal) and Asia Sepang/Fuji. Sepang now has to be one of my favorite tracks in the World right now. The racing there was incredible- super fast flowing track and tons of battles.

[@mithritades]

I tried to adapt to the Series out of love but I gave up after 2022 and I caught one race last season and it was terrible, I didn't even finish the race...R.I.P. DTM

[@frankj0484]

I used to watch them because of the Class 1 cars until 2021 because the costs have made Audi left the Class 1 program, leaving BMW being the only brand which caused DTM to dump them and switched to GT3 cars but luckily Super GT is still possessing them as GT500 class. These cars are quicker than Le Mans hypercars when it comes to cornering speed but they have the same mass as them which is 1030kg but slower when it comes top speed. Nowadays in WEC, the hypercars and in Super GT, the GT500(Class 1) are currently racing together with GT3 cars. These race cars deserved to race everywhere like GT3 and F1 cars do but in the future, maybe they should go hybrid mode like F1 cars and Le Mans hypercars do instead of EV like Formula E.

[@screaminlead]

I lament the loss of DTM. There is absolutely room for it however, cost is becoming the primary driver for racing as technology has grown so far beyond what we could imagine. I wished for a future with DTM, Super GT and Ford and Chevy pushing Australian Supercars into a world touring car championship akin to the 80s'-90's series mixed with more modern F1.

[@EagleFntm]

What about the differences between DTM and Super GT Championship in Japan?

[@benjaminbrockway5998]

Super GT has two classes, GT500, which has the class of cars DTM was supposed to have, and GT300, a modified GT3 spec that allows for absolutely hilarious scenes like a Prius blowing past a Lambo. Easily the greatest racing on the planet.

[@RikuroWasHere]

DTM is touring race series, while SuperGT is GT race series, also SGT has multiclass race..

[@frankj0484]

DTM is a sole class racing(formerly the Class 1 and now the GT3) while Super GT has 2 class categories. In GT500 class, it's basically the pre-2021 DTM cars they're still possessing, since 2014 to today, the cars require to have 2 liters turbocharged straight 4 engines with 650hp and the mass is the same as Le Mans Hypercars(LMH/LMDH) which is 1030kg while in GT300 class, it's a modified FIA GT3 cars which also allows mother chassis like Prius, Supra, BRZ, etc to compete with the matching homologations. Both Super GT and FIA WEC(endurance Le Mans series) are the best and most interesting racing series in the world.

[@AbrahamArthemius]

@@EagleFntm Super GT uses two-class system with GT500 & GT300. GT500 is pretty much the same as Class One DTM but they don't use DRS system and there's a tyre war between Bridgestone, Dunlop, & Yokohama (they also have it in GT300). In GT300, you will find your regular FIA-GT3 cars, but there are also two different types of cars racing against it. First is GTA-GT300 which is basically what GT500 cars used to be back in the 90s & early 00s (road car based race cars) and the second one is Mother Chassis cars which is a pure silhouette formula with a Dome chassis & Nissan derived V8.

[@AbrahamArthemius]

@@frankj0484 The retired Prius is a GTA-GT300 car. A GTA-GT300 still keeps some parts from the road car (mainly cabin) and can use any engine they want as long as it came from the same brand as the original car, hence why it used the RV8K & 2UR-GSE across its life. This is your Prius, GR Supra, GR86, BRZ, LC500h, & Z/400Z. A Mother Chassis will all have the same Dome chassis & the same Nissan derived V8 no matter the silhouette body. This is your Evora, MC86, & Mark X.

[@jamelo2132]

I would love to see a return to nearly road legal cars. Let M4 and C63 AMGs Race against I30 N Performance and Golf GTIs. I was born after the era but I love the fact that in the early 90s big Audi V8s raced against 190 Mercedeses and Ford Mustangs.

[@StreetComp]

Nicely done, a little generic but you picked a good subject as clearly others like me are wondering what happened to DTM. IMO, would’ve been nice to get some more info and detail photos of what exactly made the DTM cars so expensive - the really wild aero and crazy interiors that had drivers seated way back and in middle of car

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

Several weeks ago I asked ChatGPT how Super GT had managed to maintain Class One cars despite the costs while DTM could not, and the answer was interesting. I encourage those wondering about the same question to follow my attempt.

[@erikfinsterwalder1195]

I think you could get around that with a real tourenwagen ruleset, thats close to the original car. So only factory chassis and limited difference in bodypanel and aero. Then threw in a cage, fire supression system and the other fia stuff. Then get a small and efficient ruleset for BoP so everybody can use the engine configuration they like. There are many more details to consider, but overall this idea could have helpes the series to not drift so far away.

[@callsignkasper624]

At least they could add something like DRS and push to pass to the current DTM grid so that they are set apart from the normal GT3 series

[@alexcarolan8825]

I remember in the late 90's early 2000's my dad would say that any DTM champion has F1 potential. And you would often see drivers leap from DTM to F1, now talk about a feeder series. F2 is a joke or the ladder to F1 in general now, is a joke. You can't even jump from rally or le mans or indycar into F1. Just gotta have even richer parets to pay for a junior formula seat....

[@raymondkoledoye9941]

Thank you so much for you making this video about of my favourite touring car racing series all time. Also my favourite cars in DTM it was the Mercedes 190E Evolution 2 and BMW E30 M3. and my favourite races in DTM was the 1992 season between these two German rivals legends the Mercedes vs BMW both of them racing against each other at the race track and suddenly Mercedes win the Championship season in 1992 and that's my favourite manufacturer rivals in motorsports history.

[@CameronPrebbleNZ]

I felt another factor of decline, in the final years of ITR's ownership, was a lot of the races were being held at empty Grade 1 circuits around Europe (e.g Imola, Algarve, Spa), which I imagine people near the locations had little interest in the series. I hope ADAC's push to have more of the races back in Germany helps get a fan base built back up. I also feel they could look to the current specs in BTCC or the Australian Supercars for inspiration.

[@11vag]

I haven't seen modern DTM races, but the pictures I've seen don't look very promising. I remember those magnificent races back in 2014, 2015 ... It was really special. Great drivers came out of the series, that you can see now in WEC or FormulaE for instance. But it's hard to replicate the appeal of those sexy machines from that era and the races they produced. I was so excited when they started talking about the Class One initiative, to then only see a very forgettable cameo of Super GT in DTM or the way around, I don't even remember how it was. Sad.

[@LumpiaHauler]

I went to my first DTM this year at Hockenheim, it looks like just GT3😢

[@slimchristoff]

I used to watch dtm a lot in the late 90s. One thing you didn't mention was too many drivers were killed. It wasn't a good look for a manufacturer led championship

[@chrispraz877]

This series had its own character and style of car. Shame it had to change so much.

[@samspencerRS]

I wish DTM, Super GT, Australian Supercars. and a new American national championship could create a ruleset that caters towards carmakers like the LMDh/LMH regs. This would be a pipedream but would be awesome to see cars potentually race in major events across the globe such as, Bathurst 1000/Suzuka 1000

[@SimTester]

maybe they should have used the FIA GT4 regulations to stay more similar to the original A group regulations maybe costs are less. but I enjoy more DTM GT3 class than F1. to watch both races without comentators is awesome to hear V10, V8s sound amazing

[@SBroadcastv]

Marketing > tech, show > sport, costs cutting > common sense, and predictably "DGTM" (like most western series in general) < Super GT GT500 (DTM Class 1 silhouette prototypes).

[@dennismundt7378]

I used to enjoy watching the DTM races, especially when the British driver Esmee Hawkey and the German driver Sophia Flörsch were competing. I saw great potential in Esmee Hawkey and hoped that more women would enter this motorsport. When did I break with DTM? It was the race at the Norisring in 2021. I don't like races where there are agreements and team orders that cause drivers to change positions so that the contender with consistently good performance doesn't win the championship title. I also think that many fans have not forgiven DTM for this incident.

[@Maenfy]

Well you couldn't watch any racing series then. It would be dumb for a team / manufacturer to not take this opportunity if they can. It would happen the same way in F1, IMSA, NASCAR or Indycar.

[@joe718gt4]

Totally forgot about that Aston Martin part

[@SBroadcastv]

HWA 💡

[@peterfruchtig5334]

I don't get why so many are crying about the DTM is dead. In the last two years I have been to several races and the ever growing number of fans at the tracks tells a different story. Everything is bound to change.

[@rakr9334]

A classic example of "I want something special, but I don't want to pay special" A GT500 compatible European Series could have been tried... Not as expensive as international travelling, but complelling for the vastly larger european audience

[@vt2077]

wasn't group A the most common series raced all around the world too back then?

[@JakeSimRacing]

It was. Ton of series used it

[@apexvisiontv]

I hate that it became another GT3 championship. Gran Turismo doesn’t even have them besides the one RS5. I always thought with Class 1 merging SUPER GT and DTM it would be secured. I was wrong 😢

[@niklas5597]

6:40, ADAC TCR Germany stopped this year, due to too few competitors, so no, there is no more TCR Championship hosted by ADAC. Even though they added an extra class for TCR cars in the Series called "STT" which means as much as special tourenwagen trophy, but this is not what I would call a proper Championship, since its multiclass racing with all different kinds of cars

[@VykronianF1]

Easy way to bring DTM back: Budget cap, used German sedans, stock engine can be modified but cannot swap to different engine, each team uses the same wind tunnel, general body shape must stay the same, mostly German tracks but cannot got anywhere in Europe, then all the usual small print regulatory things.

[@testicat8462]

What I liked about classic dtm was a lot of the cars were just suped up 4 doors and coupes instead of real race cars

[@hkonhelgesen]

NASCAR starting in 1948, was the original touring car chapionship.

[@krisby1]

I enjoyed it in the 90s, proper touring cars, not DGT3 it has become now. I thought I might get back into it when Liam and Alex partnered up, but the final race was a farce with what Van Der Cocksucker got away with, without penalty. They say F1 is a joke, but that was insulting to me as a race fan.

[@SSDMusic692]

....or they come back to their roots. Stock body, hp cap, weight penalty, any car. No more 600k full carbon bespoke thoroughbred that implicates financial bankruptcy with just a fender cracker. The raw essence of motorsport is why i love my historical race events

[@keefgtp]

I still don't understand how the Super GT partnership didn't work out. The car formula was very similar to DTM or yore, at least aestetically, and Super GT in Japan is a fantastic product in and of itself. Was it the cost of travelling? Seems to me like DTM could've used the same multi-class formula as Super GT and they could've had several cross over races, like WEC does with Le Mans and a couple others. They could've even pegged the class to perform alongisde LMP2 which seems to be about the performance level of Super GT cars anyway. I assume the business really got in the way of the logic but that's what happens when rich people who don't actually give a shit about racing are in charge of the show.

[@XCougar85X]

Early 2000's DTM was fantastic. GT3 is the best and worst that has happened to GT racing. All the tech is making the cars way to easy and boring to drive. No more power slides, locking breaks , flames spitting out the sides, crazy sounds Even the top prototype classes in their series feel sterile as hell. Just a real shame.

[@vammy_]

atleast we still have supergt, im more than sure they wont drop their class 1 cars for many more years

[@1loumellor51]

DTM did go turbocharged in 2019

[@victorlucena988]

Now the same car can run maybe 4 championship. IMSA, DTM, WEC, ELMS. GT3 is the best by far. But it is sad to see the death of some iconic racing machines. I dont know what is gonna happen with NASCAR but looks bad as old DTM. With the growth of Weather Tech sports car maybe something is about to be done. NASCAR racing at Le Mans isnt just for the joy of the moment.

[@camrsr5463]

Covid sure didn't help but that's old news..... DTM was awesome and it still can be....The TCR format is very cool and perhaps something like a GT-E version of TCR could work....if you don't know look up the difference between GT3 and GTE Super GT (the 500's) is also very cool TransAM is another one that has potential to be a very popular domestic series .....damn Nascar! lol

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

Trans-Am was pretty popular in the 80s and 90s. I don't think it's downfall had much to do with NASCAR and a lot more to do with declining relevancy. Eventually it reached a point where it was the Paul Gentilozzi show, then it went dormant for 3 seasons. I feel like right now it's the TA2 series that's really sustaining Trans-Am, meanwhile the TA1 category has been pretty stagnant since Ernie Francis Jr won 7 consecutive titles. I don't think Trans-Am has done much to position either TA1 or TA2 to become a top-tier category. Manufacturers sometimes use TA2 as a place for oval track drivers to gain road racing experience, but besides that I don't see it doing much to draw eyeballs that aren't already familiar with Trans-Am. I don't see much of a way for Trans-Am to actually grow, vs. merely cannibalizing attention from TA1 to TA2 or vice-versa. If they move away from the SCCA GT-1 formula for TA1 they lose their main pipeline for teams and car builders, I don't see much gained by adopting the Gen 7 Cup car or the Gen 3 Supercar relative to what would be lost and switching to GT3 would just make them IMSA Jr. I feel like no matter what they do, they're more likely to harm TA2 than grow TA1 or grow overall. So, where's the growth potential?

[@asterixdogmatix1073]

Even the first GT3 season was full of dodgy manufacturer instructions to teams and race manipulations. Why bother watching such a series?

[@nopenottoday0]

Its not dead man. There are still alot of people there every race

[@portugalmath]

Brazilian StockCar is the closest to DTM that I remember but the run in much cheaper cars

[@olgaderwaldfee]

i visited the oldtimer gp 2 times and i have to say nothing was nicer than "DRM" (Deutsche Rennsport-Meisterschaft) i really have to say i lost my passion for modern cars after visiting "classic days" and "oldtimer gp)

[@Bncxx1275]

Now i only just collect dtm and supergt500 1/18 or 1/43 spark diecast

[@williamford9564]

GT3 racing is just fine. Adapt as DTM finally did, or die, which what it did to itself twice already.

[@frankj0484]

GT3 racing is like everyday drives but in motorsport. In Super GT, WEC, IMSA, WRC and Dakar, they have various type of vehicles in racing. The Super GT's GT500 cars, it's basically the Class 1 cars(pre-2021 DTM) and the GT300 is basically the modified FIA GT3 cars but also includes street cars with silhouette body which is called 'mother chassis'.

[@noduj]

While i think the lost uniqueness lost them many viewers, the biggest issue with all racing series besides the formula series, is that there are way too many and the races spread all over the year. You have all those GT3 series, with i don't even know whith how many drivers, with pro drivers, paid drivers, amateur drivers, then you have the endurance series with 3-4 different drivers per car, how are you supposed to follow any of that? Its just too much with the same cars. If they would make a DTM series which would go for 3 months and its a race per week, it would be much easiert to follow and probably had more viewers, also the races and qualifyings all start in the morning, its just stupidly designed.

[@paullacey2999]

Like the BTCC it got more expensive and less relevant to the car you could buy in the showroom

[@ChaseSchofield-dj2pb]

DTM should bring back the Class 1 cars using the current GT500 regulations from Japan’s Super GT

[@nanobyte5567]

The German manufacturers wanted to maintain a competitive global presence in GT3, and still compete in other Motorsport series. F1 and WEC were certainly big factors that influenced the switch to GT3 in DTM. On the other hand, the Japanese manufacturers don’t bother with a competitive GT3 presence, and would rather support customer teams in Japan and retain their GT500 cars. The reality is, DTM and Super GT cars are far too niche and bespoke which automatically makes them more expensive. Toyota might be proving this wrong with their current motorsports presence, but the question is how many cars will be in each series? Even then, GT500 at this rate is very likely to discontinue given Nissan’s situation, and the GT300 class being far cheaper but also having unique cars like the GR86.

[@vammy_]

the gt500 regulations are the same.. it would still be to expensive

[@f1b1777]

Australian Super V8 is best as it’s still pure .

[@The_BenboBaggins]

DTM has always been cool in its own way, but touring cars have always been and should always be about racing cars you can see on the road. They should have stuck with the GrpA/BTCC/STC formula and ended up where BTCC and TCR are today, instead they chased the glamour and glory of F1 and Sportscars, fighting to exist in a very limited market space.

[@BrianSwedenberg-s1z]

Two door - "Coupee" ???

[@JakeSimRacing]

I watched too much Top Gear

[@Janfey]

Did anyone even watch that series?

[@moiseulpasmoi]

I think it's a German thing. There isn't hype of motorsports as such. Even F1 had the German GP but it was cut. Mercedes started F1 with a German driver pairing; Schumacher and Rosberg, which has devolved to an Englishman and an Italian headed by an Austrian with British employees. BMW pulled out of F1 and didn't come back. Schumacher and Vettel left leaving Hulkenberg as their hope. It's a people thing

[@watchnocatch171]

Yes, unfortunately nobody could retain the hype that Schumi created in Germany, not even Vettel. To be honest I don't understand it as Germany is one of the biggest automotive country in the world obviously. But other nations just seem to be willing to spend a lot more money on watching racing than Germany.