The Fall of the Ultimate Marvel Universe

In this video, Owen discusses the demise of the Ultimate Marvel universe, and how the failures of stories such as Ultimatum and Ultimates 3 eventually led to the fall of this once popular comic book universe.
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[@OwenLikesComics]

Thanks for watching! If you enjoyed this video, please check out Part 1 where I talk about the behind-the-scenes origins of the Ultimate comics, and how its creation saved Marvel from ruins. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIPElnysl9KFoM0

[@paul1780]

Just subscribed, 👍 content.

[@TevyaSmolka]

Owen Likes Comics your welcome :)

[@spinnythebox]

Owen Likes Comics the clip at 2:07 was shot at my local shop. Can you point me to where it came from? Just curious

[@gabeheartz13saravia97]

I feel like without the ultimate universe, stories like civil war 1 and 2, avengers disassembled house of M, infinity, spider verse, Secret invasion, secret empire, Spider Gwen the mighty Thor Jane Foster and maybe even the modern guardians of the galaxy as well as much Of the main stream comics in the 2000s wouldn’t of been as great without it. Quick FYI I only vaguely watched some of these on shows like Marvel TLDR and Comicsorian

[@gabeheartz13saravia97]

New ideas like modernized action/adventure/drama stories nearly grounded in reality and cinematic streamlined illistrations That fit with the times

[@charliewrightm]

I still don’t know why Captain America didn’t help Peter after he literally took a bullet for him.

[@MoMagnus93]

Ultimate cap was a dick lol

[@mikeval1525]

charlie they separated by a explosion in the story.

[@HeilRay]

Too much freedom got in the way.

[@Ghost_Cat253]

captain america in ultimate universe hates spider man

[@superstarultra28]

@@MoMagnus93 They were all dicks in some capacity.

[@TheFLAMEXD]

The best thing to come out of the Ultimate Universe was Ultimate Spider-Man. That, to me, is it’s legacy. While the universe began to nosedive into a cesspool of horror, Ultimate Spider-Man became the greatest mythology of the character.

[@angelicagover2187]

Huh! ironical,the most relatable hero of marvel was the one who most got the glory of everything.

[@kylepietrusiewicz2749]

I'll always say that ultimate Spiderman was the only consistently great thing that came out of the whole mess

[@MarkQuick0411]

Ultimate Spider-Man will always have a special place in my heart as one of the first Spider-Man comics I read Also side note 3:30 the hell is up wit spidys leg lol

[@travisbewley7084]

Well most of what made the Avengers work cinnematically was ripped directly from Ultimates 1

[@aydinyorukoglu6150]

Without the ultimate universe the MCU wouldn't be as successful as it is today like the Civil war storyline and winter soldier as well as many more but earth 616 is the one they use the most.

[@almightytallestred]

ah... Ultimatum. The storyline where no one issues any kind of ultimatum ever.

[@smashmaster521]

But...Ultimate pun.

[@pnut3844able]

Magneto did didn't he?

[@zero28ism]

@@pnut3844able Nope, he just went full force, there was never an ultimatum issued

[@captainawsomeist]

🤣

[@zatharos6427]

*kills Peter Parker *reveals years later he’s invincible and can never die. Who the hell thought this through?

[@zatharos6427]

WikiThis exactly

[@nixonstand84]

@@zatharos6427 and then what did they do to peter nothing hopefully they make a story out of him.

[@oak3785]

Zatharos I’m sure Bendis had more to the story but that series ended quick and abruptly it was sad. The whole Miles and Kate Bishop was sooooo interesting and it ended with just a one panel break up just to wrap everything up for Secret Wars

[@virginiasaintj]

Hey, no one ever accused Brian Micheal Bendis of being a good writer.

[@nixonstand84]

@@virginiasaintj he used to be called a good writer.

[@Dubspez]

The Ultimate universe was hit-and-misses for the most part. You either got a cool, deep storyline or straight up fanfic material.

[@morgancarter5788]

@Shin Shaman totally not biased

[@RaccoonProductionsInc]

@Shin Shaman Nice b8 m8

[@knessing7681]

I remember Joe Quesada once stated "the main marvel universe will not cross over to the ultimate universe (and vice versa)" when asked if there was ever going to be a cross over into each other's universe. Followed by, "The day when there's a cross over, is the day we ran out of ideas" I'm paraphrasing here but I got the main gist of what he said and was trying to convey. Of course the Ultimate universe crossed (crashed) into the the Main Marvel Universe as a way of canceling the Ultimate Line of Comic.

[@ssjcosty]

Joe Quesada: "the main marvel universe will not cross over to the ultimate universe (and vice versa)" Narrator: "They did."

[@pnut3844able]

Besides miles, did anyone else stay in the 616?

[@gildapeixaria4433]

Nah, it was only to bring Miles Morales to earth 616, they could just cancel it if they wanted to

[@cristiancarrasco1682]

@@pnut3844able Yes, Jimmy Hudson (Wolverine's son) and Reed Richards (the Maker).

[@funnyfunnyvalentine7991]

@@gildapeixaria4433 And The Maker and Jimmy Hudson Jr

[@HSB819]

So ultimate Peter went from being a simple street level teenager to being the leader of the ultimates, honestly I think that's beautiful , he went from having the ultimates treating him like a punk kid and never treating him with respect to him leading a team of ultimates successfully

[@HSB819]

@BJ Br0wn true , that's mainly where they got the idea but tbh , I think for MCU Peter it's way to soon for him to lead the avengers , he really needs to grow up a little before that happens , like the ultimate comics version did

[@youtubersworldwide3713]

@@HSB819 MCU version is loosely inspired by ultimate Spidey. But he needs to grow up. We can see this. He is not dependent on Karen , he has better Spider sense. Also Raimi is now in MCU. I hope we can see him v Sin Six

[@HSB819]

@@youtubersworldwide3713 honestly I knew about the ultimate inspiration before homecoming came out , , they always seem to mostly take from the ultimate comics in the movies anyway , honestly I thought Karen was cool but it just wasn't Spiderman to me , also his over reliance on different suits in these movies , feels way too ironman to me , I know they are doing it to sell toys but these movies shouldn't be dictated on toy sales

[@youtubersworldwide3713]

@@HSB819 Karen was there for only one reason to talk. In comics there is thought bubble. Where spider man talks about situation. But in movies that is not realistic. Remember Spider Man talks and though too much , And in MCU that was done brilliantly without breaking 4th wall or being a creep

[@youtubersworldwide3713]

@@HSB819 remember In MCU , according to the old contract he can't use previous cinema versions inspiration. That's why he is different. That's why Aunt may , JJJ, MJ are different, due to contract. Also within a decade we get 3 Spider Man . So something has to be new. And if you have problems that he is too reliant on Gadgets. Then play Marvel's Spider Man or read comics .

[@aguywithalotofopinions412]

The ultimate’s universe biggest mistake: Pietro and Wanda going all “flowers in the attic”

[@SylenceNight]

Sad thing is o just recently saw that lifetime movie and it's sequels. Lol

[@NickolasNameolas]

@@malus1426 The fact that you think incest is normal says waaaaay more about you than your boring homophobia.

[@suddenllybah]

@@malus1426 ... Naw, they totally can. The sex just won't be their idea of fun if they are cis gays or lesbians. And royal families don't actually exist to be useful.

[@suddenllybah]

@@malus1426 You explicitly cast incest as being more old than homosexual relations. If you are going to be that dishonest with your previous statements, then we are at an impasse. (Greeco-Roman societies had a large amount of same sex relations as the normal, with the expectation of sex for not fun for the purpose of children, and those societies are commonly held to be the a good chunk of the foundation of European and U.S. culture.)

[@PatheticApathetic]

Or Magneto killing Xavier... or Blob eating Wasp...

[@thelastcoolguyonearth4858]

The ultimates was supposed to condense the Marvel universe into a more mature and grounded canon. Instead it just tried to be edgy and violent for the sake of being edgy and violent with no real substance.

[@ianbyrne465]

sounds like Mike Millar to me

[@der_benson4478]

@@ianbyrne465 I was about to write something similar.... "edgy and violent with no real substance"=Mark Millar in a Nutshell...

[@HeilRay]

That about sums it up. Felt like every other large character was a cannibal.

[@turtleanton6539]

Yeees

[@ilikenougat8892]

So... DC?

[@TheETBubba]

Ultimate (Peter Parker) Spider-Man was the best. Most of the other characters were portrayed in a way that made it impossible to like or identify with them.

[@linkzone3797]

agreed

[@kennynguyen8673]

yeah. like why the hell is Captain America anti-French? And who asked for quicksilver and wanda banging each other? Why the hell is Wolverine, a 30 year old dude, wanting to bang MJ (in Peter's body) and Jean Grey (a late teen, but still). The ultimate universe are so horny that Hela turned from the goddess of death turned into a woman thirsting for Thor, Natasha Romanova and Tony Stark creating a sex tape, etc.

[@dixonb.tweenerlegs4225]

@White-Van Helsing No. I know you wanted to be edgy and funny by saying it sounds cool, but no. It's tryhard, cringy and pretentious writing begging to be acknowledged by the cool kids.

[@dixonb.tweenerlegs4225]

@@kennynguyen8673 30? I thought Wolverine was physically like 45 and his real age is much older? Regardless, he's still a pedo in this universe.

[@Double400]

@@dixonb.tweenerlegs4225 it may be tryhard and pretentious writing but making a sextape is something I imagine Tony Stark would actually do

[@johno1544]

Ultimate Dr. Doom with his goat legs killed it for me. As if Doom hasn't been disrespected enough by the FOX movies.

[@linkzone3797]

Funny and true

[@JamesSerapio]

Ultimate Doom wasn't really meant to be important though. It was always about Reed. Loved that series so much, glad that Reed made it into 616.

[@DavidSilva-mn4dz]

The FF not Bering a sciency family and making the world a better place with there discoverys was a Let down for me. In the comics the advances un science by all the geniuses often doesn't translate in the Marvel world in a Daly basis.

[@khanhnguyen-tt3ff]

Dude a least he got to be the main villain in f4, fox make cyclops into a cockblock to wolverine and jean

[@ItsStat1c]

goat legs?? tf

[@thered_hood7451]

i miss the ultimate universe and especially ultimate peter parker

[@chakkra69]

To this day I haven't gathered the courage to read the dead of Ultimate Peter Parker. He was like, my favorite Parker ever.

[@huey6248]

@@chakkra69 it's a great story

[@jamiekelly6851]

@@huey6248 death of spider-man cataclysm was the only time i actually liked ultimate cap. That scene with aunt may talking to cap and confronting him was heart wrenching.

[@SpiderMan-ek4sg]

Dude,whether its canon or not anymore. I just want marvel to start writing on it again. I mean bendis brought it back in the Spidermen issue before leaving off to DC and the coolest thing about it is that Parker's still alive in that revived ultimate universe. God I miss the edginess man

[@Merdicano]

@@SpiderMan-ek4sg Same, like it felt real, and explore the actual consequences of a teenager becoming a superhero

[@loganhurley4764]

Marvel: “Okay we got this new line of comics that we got coming out and we think it’ll be a hit, any ideas team?” Also Marvel: *“Make everyone an unlikeable a-hole.”*

[@rosesske2551]

Also Marvel again: "And when that doesn't work, kill almost everyone important for shock value."

[@loganhurley4764]

@@rosesske2551 Fr.

[@mr.badass9442]

Marvel:"Make everything in this universe suck balls,make every character a unlikable asshole except for spiderman,then kill him off and make a new boring replacement spiderman that had potential but was only used for black people thumbs up points but only worked in the movies and games because of good writers."

[@wolfdragox5563]

Marvel writer: why? Marvel: makes them more identifiable

[@theradionicrevival8068]

@@wolfdragox5563 more “””””realistic”””””

[@mechajay3358]

Quite ironic that the ones who created and kicked off the Ultimate Universe ended up being the ones that led to it's down fall.

[@ericcloss2501]

I thought it was Loeb the newcomer who ruined it with Ultimatum?

[@ItsButterBean1020]

It was but the cracks started to form in Ultimates 3 (Convoluted storylines and shock value)

[@Avocado11]

Marvel?

[@vladpiranha]

The architects of the Ultimate line ended up sowing the seeds of the entire company's downfall.

[@robhax]

@@ItsButterBean1020 which was written by Loeb.

[@FullFatVideos]

I would say Ultimatum is one of the dumbest things in comic book history but I think there's a fair few contenders to that, ahem, crown.

[@soulsofevil1117]

Oh my god, you are here?! Hi!!!!

[@B8V88]

I love your videos man.

[@ShibuNub3305]

*Coughs in One More Day*

[@sheilamartinez4307]

@@ShibuNub3305 Coughs Sins Past

[@TheFLAMEXD]

Heroes in Crisis?

[@RedShirtShaggy]

With such a dark universe, I’m surprised Miles came out of it. Btw, my favorite stuff from the Ultimate universe is Jessica Drew, Miles and Peter. And Reed Richards!

[@havanastyle1748]

👌🏾

[@der_benson4478]

Yeah, Ultimate Jessica Drew was my favorite "spider girl"

[@smashmaster521]

@@der_benson4478 Shame she didn't survive Secret Wars 2015. Would have been neat to see her and 616 Jessica Drew interact.

[@solen5529]

@Shin Shaman damn why you think that? I'm honestly curious

[@RonanStreamkiller]

I think while Bendis did a good job with Miles, I really feel like he dropped the ball with Riri Williams. She just kinda appeared out of nowhere and helmed the Iron Man books without build up and proper character development. Plus, her origin, showing why she strived to be like Tony, made her look like a psychopath.

[@spacewolfblackmane19]

Agreed, honestly most of the new comics feel shallow and weak when compared to the older great tittles. and the constant attacks from the writers and seemingly never ending social justice politics behind the scenes has put me and many others off of buying the recent titles they seem to launch faster and faster now a days.

[@rodney2x48]

Riri felt like Bendis tried to do Miles all over again, but he didn't have the same spirit when he made Miles. Riri is soulless, while Miles has soul, is what I think. It's noticeable when we see other people write Riri and she actually isn't a terrible character. She does feel unnecessary, though. We don't really need a mini-Iron Man and I think they should've used an established character to take that role rather than make a new one and just stick them in there. Having a new character jump into a legacy and not have some kind of build up has rarely ever worked all that well.

[@Ghidorah96]

She would've made a great villain But marvel won't risk making a black person a villain...

[@bluelocimon]

@@rodney2x48 Rhodes had a niece, if they really wanted a female black Iron Man they could just say she wanted to honored her uncle and fight along side Tony. Instead they gave us this new character we didn't know and replace a fan favorite with her That's why i feel that Miles worked out, because he was in another universe and even when they brought him to the main universe, he didn't replace Peter The same with Falco as Captain America, who has been with Steve for even more time than Bucky and was loved by the fans, so he deserved that title... Even Jane Foster as Thor seemed good at the begining, until they pushed all the "she's better just because she's a woman"

[@SuperBrian19]

@@bluelocimon Absolutely, but I think they pùlled the trigger on creating a new character instead of using Rhodey niece because...royalties for Bendis.

[@trevorwooten9485]

I really enjoyed this. But it had always seemed to me that the real reason for starting the Ultimate Universe was to give new readers a universe without all the continuity and the revolving door of deaths and rebirths. So, once they lost sight of that and started killing off main characters, adding in new ones to replace them and completely diverging from anything resembling their base model, they had failed. A lot of what they did was interesting, even groundbreaking, but it wasn't the original mandate.

[@johnpglackin345]

But in five years they would have the same problem. You can't start over and reboot everything. You might as well just retell their origin story every month. And keep doing over and over and over.

[@ssjcosty]

@@johnpglackin345 It could have been a limited series with a planned ending. This would still have allowed new readers a clear place to start and a cohesive limited narrative. A lot of new readers find the idea of jumping in the middle of an ongoing long-running comics series daunting.

[@nighthero_gaming9021]

@@ssjcosty Yeah. One reason I don't think I'll ever actually get into comics. It's far too messy...

[@ssjcosty]

@@nighthero_gaming9021 There are some limited series and one-offs that are self contained like that and don't require any prior knowledge or familiarity with the story or characters. Off the top of my head, here's what I'd recommend: - Superman: Earth One (3 volumes) - Batman: Earth One (3 volumes) - Green Lantern: Earth One (2 volumes) (the above are not connected to each other by the way, even though they share the "Earth One" title) - Superman: Birthright, by Mark Waid - Justice League: The World's Greatest Superheroes, by Alex Ross & Paul Dini - The Sandman, by Neil Gaiman

[@nighthero_gaming9021]

@@ssjcosty How long is 3 Volumes?

[@TevyaSmolka]

Also i think the destruction of the ultimate marvel universe was Jeph loab his awful ultimate's 3 and ultimatum which was the final nail in the coffin for the ultimate marvel universe which is sad because i grew up with the universe and to see this universe gone is really depressing in my opinion.

[@jefferykeltner9777]

Tevya Smolka hey the ultimate universe is coming back.

[@TevyaSmolka]

Jeffery Keltner wait what I don’t think so because I have seen no news or any attempt of a revival of the ultimate marvel universe

[@jefferykeltner9777]

Tevya Smolka at the end of Spider-Man miles crossover before bendis left showed the ultimates.

[@TevyaSmolka]

if you are referring too spider-men 2 yeah sorry to break this to you but i don't see any other writer at marvel comics touching one of bendis projects for a very very long time or forever at this point.

[@kev7161]

I agree. Killing off one or two characters for the sake of drama I get. Killing off 30+ characters (esp. when the universe itself was still so new) was excessive and a waste of some good characters. I kept following Ultimate until it finally died off, but my heart wasn't into it as much after Ulitmatum.

You know, despite the massive fall from grace it suffered, the Ultimate universe was not a failure, at least entirely. We must be thankfull for what it brought, as it helped develop new marvelous things like the MCU, and with Miles, well nuff said.

[@OwenLikesComics]

I agree, Angel. The universe fell *hard*, but it served a really important role in the resurgence of Marvel in the 2000's, and set a lot of the template for its success in the last decade. And also yeah, Miles. He rocks.

[@ironmaster6496]

Yeah i mean i love Miles and i think Samuel l jackson esque Nick fury looks WAY BETTER than the original generic looking Fury, also death of Spider-man was just GREAT......but i still cant forgive them for Ultimatum

[@Pixxeria]

Miles, ok. The MCU? The MCU is the biggest testament to how the Ultimate Universe is terrible.

[@suddenllybah]

I enjoy Miles as being not the first Spider-Man or equivalent of his setting. Assuming my take away from the movie is correct.

[@INFERNO95]

Angel Pérez Ultimate marvel was trash and did nothing creative for marvel. Miles is overrated.

[@dirkts5464]

Last time i was this early Spiderman and Mary Jane were still married

[@daviddyster4145]

Jeremy Arceneaux I miss that relationship to

[@TevyaSmolka]

Jeremy Arceneaux you and me both man

[@OwenLikesComics]

too soon.

[@Christ2010Grad]

Owen Likes Comics I think you should do a video on One More Day and why it’s so hated.

[@MegaSpideyman]

@@Christ2010Grad I'm glad they're at least bac together now.

[@NobodyC13]

I heard Jeph Loeb was working through some tragic issues during Ultimatum and it unfortunately bled through into his writing.

[@pnut3844able]

I hoped the video would have mentioned this but his son died around that time. You could definitely tell the quality of his writing took a major hit.

[@lazuruswolf6668]

@@pnut3844able say what you want about Loeb and his writing but I would never wish that on anyone.

[@jamainegardner4193]

@@pnut3844able so he got Zack Snyder'd before Zack Snyder.

[@wolfdragox5563]

@@jamainegardner4193 the difference being that Zack project wasnt affected in the same way Loeb project was bc of that tragedy, at least now we have the Snyder cut, but Ultimatum and Ultimates 3 will never get anything like that ik is different media but you get the point

[@deepfriedokra]

He was a bd writer his whole career though

[@benjamin6194]

I dug the social commentary in Ultimates #1 and #2. First you have a group trying to convince everyone they are "heroes" but deep down they doubt if they are on the right side, especially Thor, but in the end they hit a positive note and seem to prove themselves. Then in #2 they realize they are just a branch of the military being used to knock off Middle Eastern Oil Kingdoms, which provokes a backlash. So maybe they weren't so heroic after all. If you thought even a little bit about it, it worked as an allegory for the US Military and the War in Iraq, the "heroes" are America, always giving speeches about freedom but often acting unscrupulously. #1 and #2 complimented each other well, as we became more jaded with the idea of heroes. Although the side-effect of that is #2 is less fun, at least they felt connected as part of a larger story with a larger message. But after #2 ended... it wasn't symbolic of anything anymore. It didn't mean anything.

[@Carlitonsp1]

So that's why Bendis' run on Superman hasn't been well received: He's basically Lex Luthor.

[@BostonMBrand]

I definitely see how the MCU was built on the Ultimate Universe’s writing but I feel it still maintains a lot of the 616. Although I could go on and on, I find the MCU exists as a adaptation of the ultimate universe in terms of tone but it maintains the stories and look of much of the 616, both in terms of how the characters look (excluding obvious exceptions like Nick Fury, though I won’t lie, I cannot image anyone else besides Samuel L. Jackson playing the character) and making many of the titular stories of the 616 more modern and grounded. I mainly see this in Infinity War, as they managed to make a tale of cosmic proportions feel more at home. Also, they turned Thanos more into a complex, antihero type villain compared to his original, death obsessed counterpart.

[@antona.1327]

1. The MCU was not built on the Ultimate Universe. Ultimate Universe was about dark mood and grit, not cornball humor. 2. Their tones are nothing alike. The Ultimates tone was inspired by the movies like The Matrix and was not about superheroes, but bunch of screw ups who have to convince themselves and others they're capable of being heroes. The MCU mayhap had bits of that tone in The Incredible Hulk, but since that movie bombed, they quickly pulled the plug on dark and gritty and instead went with the comedic approach because Iron Man was their only successful movie at that point. Hence why Thor and The First Avenger were not gritty Viking epic or gritty WW2 movies, but fun summer blockbusters. 3. Many of the characters who in the MCU get multiple movies don't have any history to pull from in the Ultimate Universe. Likewise, Captain America, Iron Man and Thor have no stories or worldbuilding related solely to them, since they barely had any solo stories and most of their appearances are relegated to team-ups. They have no supporting characters or even villains. The Red Skull never existed in the Ultimate universe. 4. No, they don't, what a bunch of nonsense. Take Extremis, for example. A gritty, simple and grounded story about a neo-nazi recieving superpowers and wrecking havoc, forcing Tony Stark to biologically upgrade himself to fight him on equal terms. Then take Iron Man 3, which turned awesome gritty comic story into a farcical nonsense with the most embarrassing jokes seen in superhero movies. The MCU never improved upoon the source material. The source material was always superior.

[@SirsasthNigam.]

Endgame disagrees plus do you seriously think Cannibal rapist hulk is better than MCU hulk ?

[@SirsasthNigam.]

It was inspired by Ultimate while it adapts 616 comics

[@Stanlos]

The only things I can recall about thise Ultimate books was Black Nick Fury, Joe Madureira art, and Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver sexing each other and creeping me out

[@travellis1]

God. I'm the world's biggest Ultimate Universe fanboy. And I didn't want to like this. But it's so true. So honest. It slowly recovered from Loeb in terms of storytelling. And world building. But it wasn't the same. And I loved it. But it did die out. And I can't deny that. The evidence is all there. Great video man.

[@OwenLikesComics]

I couldn't agree more, man. When you read some of the post-Ultimatum stuff, you can really tell the writers were trying to piece the universe back together however they could, but unfortunately the magic of the first couple of years was already gone. Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it!

[@KenBeeKJV]

The thing that bugged me most about the post U landscape was Ultimate X-Men was actually getting good before Cataclysm came along and put the final nail in the coffin. Same with Miles Spidey really but then they dropped that awful New Ultimates book and that just really drove it home just how far the Ultimate line had fallen.

[@Axzle_MC]

This whole comment. I felt that pain as well, my friend.

[@channel99productions21]

Ultimate Marvel is the best Marvel

[@johnpglackin345]

@@OwenLikesComics I am glad the ruin the Ultimate Universe. They should have focus on the main Marvel Universe. The only one.

[@junkiiramen]

Ultimate Spider-Man was probably the most relatable character in his comic. I’m glad they also portrayed him like that in the Ultimate Spider-Man game even though the plot was very different.

[@CulturePhilter]

Loved this two part series. How come no mention of the other mini-series in the universe (Ultimate Daredevil, team-up, the Galactus trilogy etc...) ?

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thanks, Philip. Honestly I chose to omit the smaller books because I wanted to focus on the important and main titles in the series, and also because the video was already getting too long as it is. There's some great stuff in those miniseries' though, I own all of them!

[@CulturePhilter]

I figured that was the reason. I know it was divisive amongst long term marvel fans but i loved the take they had on Galactus.

[@leftovers9684]

Because he was pretty much reading the wiki pages

[@projekttaku1]

@@leftovers9684 no.

[@TevyaSmolka]

yeah i still maintain the ultimate spider-man comics was one of the best comics of all time and to see ultimate peter parker die really broke my heart into a million pieces but when he came back to life i was so happy because that means we can have two spider-men within the ultimate marvel universe and ultimate peter parker and ultimate mary jane had a happy ending was so happy in my opinion :)

[@Garrus1995]

I really liked Ultimates 1 and 2. For one, the art was amazing. I also felt Millar did a good job of showing what a real life superhero team would be like; not pure of heart do-gooders, but deeply flawed people with their own problems. It felt different and held a lot of promise, but they didn’t carry it forward in a n enjoyable way.

[@kylepietrusiewicz2749]

The only good thing to come out of the ultimate universe is the Spiderman stuff

[@kylepietrusiewicz2749]

Dammit I love that Doom panel

[@qwellen7521]

I feel Ultimate's 1&2 had some brilliant moments and fantastic art. It was mixed bag, but Millar's guiding hand and radical creative choices made it stand out for me.

[@darnis6497]

The Maker is pretty awesome.

[@rileighdabbs1950]

And the MCU. Don't forget the MCU.

[@futuremr.nadersnaggletooth5381]

The fantastic four stuff was great as well

[@unigenius]

Two things: 1. Wow, you're cute! 2. Ultimate Marvel failed because the "ultimate" versions of their characters weren't just mere updates like they were in Spidey's books. They were too different and too gross. They weren't fun to read. X-Men was for a while, as was the ultimates. But, soon, the novelty of differentness wore off. And, with it, went interest.

[@BigK13372]

unigenius Yeah pretty much. Its clear that Bendis and Millar have two completely different approach when writting these characters; and it really shows in the books they are involved in. Bendis actually attempts at doing a modern approach with the characters and portray them in such a way that doesn’t come off as parody as their former selfs. While Millar chose to just make everything dark in attempt at conveying realism and turn all the characters into bigger jerks compare to their original counterparts to artificially create drama in the stories.

[@unigenius]

Yeah. One of the things that immediately put me off was the first time Banner transformed into Hulk, he runs around screaming "HULK IS HORNY!!!!!" Like...ugh!!

[@BigK13372]

unigenius And that is why I prefer Al Ewing’s darker take on the Hulk than Millar’s. But seriously, Immortal Hulk is the best Hulk comic I read in years.

[@CosmicNerdStudios]

8:44 That's not Johnathan Hickman, that's obviously Sal from comic pop... Wait... ARE THEY THEY SAME PERSON?

[@OwenLikesComics]

It cannot be unseen.

[@obsidian5146]

@@OwenLikesComics wait

[@treynevs4888]

Bendis's Ultimate Spider-Man series was my first comic book series. I have it to thank for my comic obsession and interest in a future career as a writer. I was really sad to see the Ultimate universe die in quality, but I was grateful that Ultimate Spider-Man was almost always really awesome. Some story arcs were better than others, but none of them ever reached Ultimates 3 or Ultimatum levels. I do think it would be cool to see another Ultimate universe, but I think that they should make a new version - maybe one were some characters are replaced right from the get-go (i.e. Miles is always Spider-Man, Jim Rhodes is Iron Man, etc).

[@linkzone3797]

I see what you mean

[@aliastheabnormal]

I'm pretty sure that Ant-Man and the Wasp are more than happy to bury the Ultimate comics anyways.

[@BigK13372]

aliastheabnormal I think anybody who is an Avenger likes to pretend Ultimate comics doesn’t exist . . . except maybe Tony; his Ultimate counterpart is the only likable member of the Ultimates.

[@ReedRichardsPhD]

Even as a teen, when I saw the Blob eating Wasp, it was depressing and terrifying af

[@theotherjared9824]

Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it. This happened with the ultimate universe, except what took the regular universe 60 years to be a convoluted mess and in need of a full reboot, the ultimate universe did it in 10.

[@jakeproven5931]

Ultimate Spider-Man was a great book and it was one of the biggest love letters to Spider-Man u will ever see but ultimate x-men ultimate fantastic 4 and the ultimates felt more like a terrible parody of x-men fantastic 4 and the avengers the heroes were cruel in those books and there was nothing resembling good story telling

[@virginiasaintj]

Ultimate Fantastic Four is actually really good until Ultimatum.

[@jakeproven5931]

Sir Regenald Fisty McAssplug the 34th it was never good neither were ultimate x-men and any of those atrocious ultimates books

[@soundofmadness595]

Jake Proven at least Ultimate Spider-Man and ultimate X-Men was good

[@Maximus4587]

Ultimate Spider-Man: Great all the way to the end. Ultimate Fantastic Four: Good up until Ultimatum. Ultimate X-Men: Wildly inconsistent, but definitely went beyond the point of no recovery after Ultimatum. The Ultimates: 1 and 2 were great. 3? *Not so much...*

[@jakeproven5931]

Maximus4587 i know ultimates 3 is bad on its own but it astounds me how there are people out there who like ultimate 1 and 2 I mean bad story awful characterization and now I refuse refer to ultimate captain America as captain America I have picked out a name I here by dub him stuck up Brian

[@TevyaSmolka]

As for miles morales yeah his future right now is very questionable unfortunately which is sad because i liked miles morales but damn it ever since he went into the main marvel universe his character has just been useless which is sad because miles morales can work if handled right :)

[@batmenace15]

Well with the success of Into the Spider-Verse it looks like Miles will likely live on in other media

[@huey6248]

He hasn't been useless He's a cool character Who captures the charm of early Spider-Man comics with Miles still being a teenager who deals with teenage problems whilst also coming into his own as a amateur street level Spider-Man with the power and potential to surpass Peter

[@TevyaSmolka]

i certainly hope so

[@Merdicano]

@@batmenace15 Don't forget the videogame, although from what I understand, it's a very different Miles

[@caffeinated2478]

I feel like miles needs his own identity now that he is in the main universe. Peter has been spiderman forever and Miles ends up being the other spiderman. He needs his own hero name even in games it affects him. As an example in marvel ultimate alliance 3 in the character select screen you can pick spider man and Miles Morales

[@Nada-fj8ij]

Ultimates sure was XxEDGEYxX but most Millar stuff is

[@INFERNO95]

Troll Bones edgey is mediocre.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

@@INFERNO95 I think it's just passed the time-period for sheer 'edge' to get a writer by - comics have matured a bit, along with a portion of comic readers.

[@theodriutti6266]

@@INFERNO95 Most of Millar's Ultimate stuff was amazing.

[@Jakemufcfan]

Ultimates 1 was just a great evolution of his authority stuff which is great, 2 is alright and 3 is a train wreck

[@tjjordan4207]

People often say that the Ultimate Universe is a failure, and... I can't argue with that. It has a lot of problems and most certainly screwed up a lot of things, but I don't think it's a bad idea to ground it in realism and making characters go through real-life problems. For me, the real problem was the writers and the obvious miscommunication between them. We needed more writers similar to Michael Bendis, someone who can bring in the realism while still focusing on the characters. I know people are blaming crossovers and shared universes for being the cause of continuity errors (which they are part of the problem), but Supernatural shares no universe with no other properties and there are tons of continuity errors to be found. The Ultimate Universe is a victim of lazy writing and poor care from those in charge. And it's a shame, because there was so much going for it. Hopefully with the reveal of the Ultimate Universe having survived during the Spider-Men II story, we can see a redemption done for the world and begin a new chapter. In fact, just start over with everything having been reset after the events of Secret Wars.

[@f67739]

I seriously cannot understand why Marvel is so eager to relaunch their 616 comics yearly when UU fans have been waiting since the end of Spider-Men II for a new chapter in the Ultimate Universe. Miles was much better with New Ultimates, SHIELD, and Ultimate Taskmaster. Hopefully with the new Spiderverse movie coming out this week, 2019 could have some promising plans for the UU. CBR even mentioned that something was underway in April.

[@tjjordan4207]

@@f67739 Agreed! You would think they would lanch another Ultimate Spider-Man comic that sets up for the rest of the Ultimate Universe. In fact, I want everyone to be resurrected this time around. I know it's a cliche and would seem like a copout, but so many deaths happened in the awful Ultimatum comic and I think everyone would love to see that get reversed, maybe even de-canon-ed as well.

[@f67739]

​@@tjjordan4207 They could definitely resurrect the characters with the help of Reed Richards to provide an in-universe explanation. I don't see why they can't do what comics have been doing for plenty of years.

[@tjjordan4207]

@@f67739 It would make sense for the UU. A do-over for everyone and a chance to expand on everything. I still want the old canon to be relevant, as a reminder to other writers of what not to do. Maybe have Professor X, Reed Richards, Spider-Man and Nick Fury be the only ones who still remember.

[@linkzone3797]

@@tjjordan4207 you are speaking my language

[@ianbyrne465]

Jeph Loeb's contributions were really tragic. He'd lost his son only a few months before, I honestly think he should have passed writing on to someone else and taken that time to grieve, and come back to the Ultimate Universe later

[@ElvenRaptor]

Anyone else notice the running theme of "[Insert Comic Book Company Here] decides they need to rebrand and goo super-edgy, and end up alienating most of their readership with decisions only an edgelord moron would have thought were a good idea"?

[@Protosilver97]

Yeah, every company does that.

[@anthonydeadman]

There's a reason why people always make fun of Edgy things by going "Ow The Edge" whenever it happens within a story.

[@ElvenRaptor]

@@anthonydeadman I'm not against stories going dark if needed, but there are a lot of examples of doing it very badly.

[@ElvenRaptor]

@S.W. Jackson That's okay, you'll grow out of it.

[@ElvenRaptor]

@S.W. Jackson Fair enough. Here's the thing about grimdark reboots as far as the rest of us are concerned, though. Quite often, they'll just lean into the grim and everything else anyone ever liked about the series behind. Yeah, we'll get the dark and bleak, but not nearly enough of anything else, and it just becomes a chore to sit. t becomes monotonous and I eventually just stop caring because I know the sun isn't going to rise, these characters' situations are not going to improve, they're not going to overcome their personal struggles, because that would be something hopeful and grimdark rebrandings can't have that!

[@edgewiseCL]

The Ultimates first arc reads like the gritty reboot of the MCU that will eventually happen in a decade or 2.

[@outpostalpha]

Super interesting. Owen, your videos on comics history are the best! So well-made, and always must-watch for this comics fan!

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate that!

[@spacepenguins8939]

So 1 man leaving DC for Marvel gave us Ultimates 3 (and Ultimatum) and All Star Batman and Robin

[@Dr.Caligari-scabinet]

Why did I just find this channel on KZbin? Don’t know why KZbin put this in my queue, but I’m currently watching all your videos. Love them

[@anonimatus007]

"violence and excess for the sake of violence and excess..." that sound a lot like TITANS S1

[@EnzoDraws]

Your videos are always great, thank you for these insights dude

[@ohnosmoarlulcatz]

The problem for me with the Ultimate Marvel series is that it eventually fell into the same trappings that the main universe did. The big plus of Ultimate Marvel was that because of how it was made, characters had more development and progress compacted together rather than spread out. On top of it, the lack of reboots ensured that these changes stuck. But once Ultimate Comics came around, it fell into the exact same pitfall that the main universe did. What was the point of killing Spider-Man if you were just going to bring him back? What was the point if you continue to just repeat the same storylines over and over again? What made Ultimate Marvel work was the lack of resets. The idea that when a story was done, it was done was something that the main universe did not do allowed them to make drastic changes that stuck. But once we started with the reboots, they were no different than the main Marvel line. I loved Ultimate Spider Man and its the only series that I have the full collection of, but Miles Morales came along as a replacement that made Spider-Man's development and sacrifice pointless and I hate it for that reason. Peter had a fairly continuously changing status quo. We saw him grow and develop over time and that was what was important. But, in the end, he sacrificed himself and that was the end of his story. If they left it at that, then it would have been fine. Unfortunately, it was just rebooted. It feels awful because it's just like One More Day, a cheap way to cheat Peter out of a happy ending that he should have earned. This doesn't mean that new characters shouldn't take up the name. It means that characters should earn their happy ending and get it, not just kill them off when you're stuck or have them do the same stories over and over again. Have your superheroes retire if you want to change their origin stories instead. Let them grow, let them change. Don't just constantly reboot them every two years.

[@fenomozo9108]

Really great comment

[@projekttaku1]

eh, atleast it worked in spider-verse.

[@ohnosmoarlulcatz]

@@projekttaku1 Not really. The Spider-Verse movie so far is an origin story for Miles Morales. This is the beginning of a new story for just him. We won't actually see a second entry until next year with Across the Spider-Verse. The comics on the other hand have absolutely ran the Spider-verse into the ground.

[@projekttaku1]

@@ohnosmoarlulcatz that's what I mean. The spider-verse movie put miles to good use and did the whole "peter dies" thing very good. Also, what's your problem with the comic spider-verse?

[@ohnosmoarlulcatz]

@@projekttaku1 My original post was about the repetitive cycles brought about by comic books. Into the Spider-verse is only one movie right now so it is impossible for it to fall into the trap of the standard Marvel comics. As a standalone origin for Miles, it is fine and mirrors the early comic events as well. The problem when you look at the comics is that it has many more years of history that are very different. For example, though Miles came after the death of Peter, Miles was given Peter's old web shooters and a Peter Clone left from the Clone Saga but preserved by Nick Fury was left alive. Though this Peter Clone was revived, he turned into a coward and quit being Spider-man within the same arc, thus completely undermining Peter's legacy as a whole. Spider-verse cheapens death and uses a high body count of a variety of unknown Spider-men to attempt to build stakes, yet also revives them within the same story arc, making deaths less impactful.

[@megamonstercookies]

Thank you for this, exactly what I was looking for!

[@mikelennon1243]

Still think the Ultimate line had the most potential of any initiative in comics. Ultimate Spider-Man is timeless and wonderful. I'd love to know what Bendis' pitch for X-Men would have been like. The whole line should have been a little more cohesive, with writers making a slight effort to establish a consistent tone within the universe. Its a bit jarring going from ultimate spidey to the ultimates.

[@LowBudgetToons]

I love how in-depth this was! I loved the launch of the Ultimate Universe and was sad with how things played out

[@AHeroAlmost]

New to the channel....loving these videos so much history and back story to them. ..

[@OwenLikesComics]

Glad you're enjoying them, welcome to the channel!

[@TevyaSmolka]

yeah the self destruction of the ultimate marvel universe was just sad in my opinion

[@dcmarvelcomicfans9458]

That thing pissed me off what were they thinking killing off the characters was going through Marvel's head and also the storylines was way to dark and it didn't even do what it was great to do which was say goodbye to this universe so what was the point

[@TevyaSmolka]

Great video on part 2 of the ultimate marvel universe as a whole

[@robhax]

I enjoyed the new takes on characters I knew, characters I vaguely knew of, and characters I barely knew at all. I was never a Spider-Man guy... but I bought every TPB of that series, to a point. Grew up reading X-men and I really enjoyed the revamp - especially Prof X turning out to have a dream, a vision, but not holier than thou and making questionable decisions. Now, after about 3-4 TPB arcs, it changed and I stopped reading at a point. Loved The Ultimates because it was constantly in our faces. It was epic and cinematic in scope, but since it was short and sweet, it worked well for me... to a point. Fantastic Four was enjoyable - but I was never into FF. Ultimates 3 then Ultimatum were the killing blows, but... the series started falling apart prior. As I read, I noticed the revamped characters appearing to look and even sound like their regular counterparts. X-men storyline officially jumped the shark with me when they introduced the drug derived from Wolverine to enhance their abilities. BUT Ultimates 3 was the worst offender. Many point to the relationship between Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, but it's more than that with me. Suddenly, Stark isn't a fun-loving drinker that is dying and is just enjoying life... Pym is back on the team for some reason. Janet, Wasp, isn't a petite woman anymore. Suddenly she has a massive chest. Captain America is masquerading as Black Panther for... unknown reasons. Hawkeye is a straight up killer and suicidal - I can understand some of it due to his family, but it's over-the-top. Thor is his stereotypical self, speaking in "thees" and "thous" for no discernable reason. And Valkerie is his girlfriend and has powers, although when we are introduced to her, she's just some girl that knows some karate and has a fling with Hank Pym when he is forced to slum it with Superhero wannabes. Then Ultimatum... was just ridiculous. Characters killed off for no reason other than to meet a quota... characters being violent, moreso than previously seen. Just went really, really bad.

[@leandrosn962]

Great content! Thanks for the research and video!

[@TheWazzoGames]

I really liked Ultimate X-Men post ultimatum with Jimmy Hudson dealing with the legacy of his father and the X-Men being on the run.

[@joelrivardguitar]

After Ultimate FF ended the 12 issue series Ultimate Doomsday where Reed Richards became the Maker and Ben married Sue was one of the best runs ever. It was broken up into 3 titles, 4 issues each. I just re-read it and was blown away at how good it was. It was like watching a really good movie. How Marvel let Bendis go is the ultimate mystery?

[@fulcrum6760]

Ah the ultimate comics, if the MCU was released in the early 2000’s.

[@oscarrivas6879]

This was so amazing and thoughtful. Loved it. Hope more people watch this video and the last and hope that you make more like this!

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you so much, Oscar. Please do share the video around if you can, it helps out a ton!

[@noticias6111]

When ‘Iron man’ came out around the end of last decade, I remember thinking how an MCU would try to stick closer to ‘the ultimate universe’ b/c of less continuity issues and a more updated look.

[@wilfredmack3665]

Great video having been out of the main reading circulation for over some twenty years I never knew that the Ultimate series had such a impact on the Mcu animation movies as well as the Mcu cinematic universe. It seems to me that the cinematic universe is based more on the Ultimate characters than the golden age comics I grew up reading .

[@MrSuperoldskool]

I love your channel, really glad i discovered it!

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you so much, George! I really appreciate that

[@thereidfamily8221]

As someone who loves comic this video was helpful you have a new subscriber

[@MoisesHernandez-sw5pt]

The art was sick tho

[@buffbeenstuffed]

great stuff , I really enjoyed this two part series. I remember seeing the writing on the wall the day I read/saw Ultimatum, when that story line killed of a large number of the character's they had spent so much time building up, I had a feeling that this universe has but a few a years left. But now upon further reflection The Ultimate's 3 was another sign, that story had some odd choices such as the Maximoff implied incest story and the leaked sex tape of stark and widow. In fact I am sure it was even implied that Wolverine was may have been the father of those two. The lack of cohesion between all the comics was another factor which you pointed out. By the time we got to 2011 the one good thing that kept that Universe going was indeed Miles Morales. I will write some more tomorrow morning, but this has been an excellent series well done!

[@OwenLikesComics]

Oh I agree 100%, while the writing was definitely on the wall after Ultimatum, the problems within the universe can be traced back much further. Though at least the post-Ultimatum years did give us Miles and evil Reed Richards, which I'm extremely glad for.

[@buffbeenstuffed]

The two greatest elements ...I will say that was also the last great Brian Michael Bendis run as I enjoyed his Miles Morales spider-man comic in 2014

[@samfrito]

I am happy you pulled this off. When Ultimate Spider-Man was taking shape I had already been out of the comic reading scene for about five years. Nothing Marvel was doing at the time interested me. I read a few issues of Ultimate Spider-Man and it did seem about the rich differences, evolution and conventions comics were starting to take. I definitely didn't see at as replacement for the characters I spent almost 30 years with, but almost a parasite. I enjoyed very few of the stories outside of Spider-Man, but did hunt down a few titles in trade to see if the magic was there. I thought it was just my tastes were too reliant on the universe I grew up with to stray as far as the Ultimate books had. Great video.

[@DireAxis]

As a longtime comic book reader, the Ultimate Universe was a massive shift when it first came around. Especially with the Ultimate X-men and even more Ultimate Spiderman. Marvel was just coming out of almost going under as a company, it was the early days of the 21st century and now they had to recapture the existing and a burgeoning new fanbase (especially with the films that had started dropping) You spoke more about Ultimatum than I think anyone ever should. It ended as a mess but the good runs are an important point in comic history.

[@tychanel3406]

The problem with comics is that they don’t have enough younger writers or illustrator with wilder imagination Nd story telling use different characters like spider woman , song bird different versions of the character etc

[@der_benson4478]

The current crisis that Marvel and Dc are in, was for the most part caused by young writers who have stupid ideas and behave unprofessionally on social media when their ideas are called out as stupid.

[@dwainjones2251]

@@der_benson4478 True...

[@mikenayers5981]

Peter was revealed to have come back to life in Miles’ book right before Secret Wars.

[@ace_gamer12]

You explained this perfectly Owen, thank you

[@daveyjoneslocker4703]

Ultimate Spider-Man was the first comic book I ever actually consistently followed. It was straightforward, grounded and relatable.

[@daveherz998]

Bringing in Jeph Loeb was the single largest mistake that ended this amazing continuity. If you want to see more of Jeph's failures in action, check out the terrible Marvel XD cartoons, and the powerfully mediocre non Netflix Marvel series. He had a hand in the Netflix series too, just a drastically reduced role. How Loeb hasn't been fired as head of Marvel TV is beyond me.

[@queenie_bee]

Well this became prophetic

[@pnut3844able]

He also ran Heroes into the ground

[@jaythosonmp439]

Yeah...but ultimate did give us marvel zombies is just *mwah* amazing

[@aydinyorukoglu6150]

That was earth 2149 not earth 1610 but they are similar realities

[@CAKECO.]

@@aydinyorukoglu6150 ultimate fantastic four actually introduced the marvel zombies concept I think , it had something to do with Reed I think

[@VioletSerenade]

Aydin Yorukoglu yeah Ultimate reed made a machine that could go to other universes, Zombie Reed tricked Ultimate Reed and shit hit the fan

[@nickbell8353]

Mark Millar is a comic writer who despises comic books. Almost all of his work seems to say that super heroes are stupid and you're stupid for liking them.

[@nickbell8353]

dragon stare24 his writing style is so mean-spirited, it's hard to tell the good guys from the bad.

[@BigK13372]

Nick Bell So what you are saying is that he is the Kevin Nash of comic books. Well that explains why the Ultimate Universe failed.

[@thegangsternerd5230]

DUDE, AWESOME!!! this is like the behind the scenes explanation, I've been needing.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you very much, glad you enjoyed the video!

[@MrEdd215]

Hickman's run on the Ultimates was godly.

[@spectacularultimatespider-2055]

The Ultimate Universe is the Marvel Universe I grew up with! I Love Ultimate Spider-Man (Favorite parts were the Ultimate Spider-Man Venom Story Arc (I Love The Black Suit Design and Venom Origin) and Ultimate Mary Jane Watson). However I wish the X-Men From X-Men Evolution were the Ultimate X-Men instead of the ones we got!

[@willieoelkers5568]

Yeah, it started interesting but then just got weird with all the name-dropping and them just screwing around with the characters. Is Jean actually in touch with the Phoenix Force or just schizophrenic? Is Apocalypse real or just some nutjob's delusion? Depends what month it is! Hey, let's addict half the team to this weird drug for no apparent reason! And let's make Nightcrawler, the one character who was most iconically open-minded and accepting, a homophobe! I get that they were trying for "realism", but tearing down every single team member isn't realism, it's misery porn.

[@NerdonFilm]

Your videos are fantastic. Great work!

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you mate, that means a lot! New video coming Thursday🙏

[@NerdonFilm]

Owen Likes Comics I’ll be sure to check it. I know this is tacky, but I’ve been working on my own videos and did one on the Punisher film from 1989. If you feel like checking it out, here’s the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHmkeZedfsljidk. Any input would be appreciated.

[@joefur2835]

These videos are great I’m surprised you don’t have more views.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you Joe, I really appreciate that. Best way you can help is sharing the video around on social media, that actually helps a lot!

[@joefur2835]

Owen Likes Comics I got into the ultimate comics universe in 2001 when I was 21 and I had a very Patient friend try to explain to me that it was a restart.

[@RogerFusselman]

Nihilism sucks. Not much for the we-hate-life approach to comics.

[@ashleigh6192]

WikiThis Actually, I think that of some right it could make a greater, more noble hero. In the sense of optimistic nihilism which basically believes that yeah this is pointless so may as well enjoy it stand point. This hero could have come to a conclusion that everything is pointless but, see that people around him still enjoy life and so, in the interest of all those around him who find the point in life he couldn’t he sets out to defend them so they can live the life he couldn’t. This would also make a cool point because, to some extent they wouldn’t mind dying, if anything they could be suicidal. An extra layer added. A character who puts himself in deathly situations but has to resist the urge to go too far and let themselves die. I think it would make a great character.

[@lukedalton]

@Drake Barnes yes, but he is the damned bad guy, not the protagonist and hero

[@Historyfan476AD]

@@ashleigh6192 In a way is that not Batman and his never ending war on crime.

[@user-ManofStyle1]

Great video, but 1:59 Bendis wrties about hope ? His Spider-Man goes through physical and emotional hell full of misery and embarrassment, then he dies, get's replaced by a new S-M and everyone forgets about him, except Aunt May, Gwen, and MJ. So where's "Hope" part ?

[@grandpaeren6839]

Arcas Son of Light that anyone can wear the mask

[@theochua2810]

@@grandpaeren6839 ITSV

[@Gemnist98]

It’s a leap of faith.

[@MrODIE1972]

Great article. I too enjoyed Ultimate line at beginning..

[@elrayoxephier1393]

in 1989 a decision was made to put the original Marvel comic book universe to rest. Many things we're in the works behind the scenes, And the opportunity to split the universe into two was more lucrative to the company. one part marvel comic book universe, and one part movie universe. the new age had arrived and "Marvel Ultimate comics" would be a canvas that would take on many forms and new variation over the years, and years to come. this would make it easyer to make the movies with out comic book cannon geting in the way. there hasn't been a stable cannon since then, and there never will be again as long as marvel and who ever control's the characters, and their license want to make movies. when i learned all of this it actually made me feel better to know that all the cannon and the characters "thair for of" that i love so very much, and that i grew up with can rest in peace no matter what they do with this new marvel universe. The original marvel Universe is still the best. But it is still important that there be a place to tell the new storys of today, and into the future for good, bad and indifferent. 😀👍

[@AceLM92]

I read so much of the Ultimate Spider-Man comics up to and including the death of Peter Parker, but I have to admit after Ultimatum it was getting kind of on the stale side and when they killed Peter Parker and brought in Miles I just think it could have been executed better in terms of giving Miles his own personality. I felt that he was just Peter Parker with a different skin color, I would have liked him to have a different personality at least to distinguish him as a character, which I did not get until I saw the into the spider-verse movie, so get some lose some

[@AceLM92]

*also a different origin for his powers

[@omniframe8612]

Ultimates vol 3 and the new 52 got me out of comics.

[@darkavenger1929]

Ultimate Spider-Man Death absolute saddest death in comic history😭😭 6 monsters killed a 16 yr old kid😭😭 And a good kid who just couldn’t sit back while evil triumphed even with a fatal gunshot😭😭😭😭

[@Remix-pr4xd]

When a kid from Queens was more heroic than any hero from the Ultimates.

[@bartosgyorgy]

I grew up on the Ultimate universe comics as well started reading it in 2002 (that was when it first appeared here in Tranyslania), still have it in a box to this day the USM,UXM & UF4 issues, I couldn't get enough of them and since then Bendis & Millar have been my favorite comic book writers (I know both of them have flaws, but can't help it, I remained a fanboy), but Ultimatum really was the jumping off point for me. I was so devastated to see this universe I loved and could immerse myself in it be savaged to the point of being unrecognizable. I started collecting Miles' USM and I liked it but couldn't finish it or get back to it. Probably the last I read was Jeph Loeb's Ultimate Comics: X miniseries. Since then I only read DC starting with Flashpoint & New 52. Really like Doomsday clock. Great video, both parts, hope you do more Origins videos.

[@bartosgyorgy]

Left out Ultimates from the first paragraph, those appeated in trade paperback, collecting the volumes.

[@israelfavila1529]

I don't know, but for me the Ultimate universe was like the writers met up and said "Hey. Let's take the worst from every character and build up an universe with that"

[@kevin10001]

What I think happened was it got to big for itself and clasped in on its self and I think that is what will happen to their movie universe cause now we are almost being forced to have to see everything their studio puts out to understand what is going on and that in itself will become its own undoing

[@pugman9672]

I feel like I’ve see this exact video for a third time in a single month. It’s like my mind keeps getting wipe and I watch this video as if I had never seen it before it’s so bizarre

[@daxecutioner101]

Joe Quesada said that if the mainstream and Ultimate Marvel universes ever crossed over, it would signify that Marvel "had officially run out of ideas. Well that explains everything.

[@danielcraig9666]

The entire ultimate universe was ruined from the inception. A world where everybody is a giant douche is no fun to read.

[@chancecole437]

Ultimatum might have been the most disappointing comic book I have ever read.

[@shawnswint1521]

The Ultimates 3 & Ultimatum were like the ''All Star Batman & Robin Series'' of the Ultimate Marvel Universe.

[@iliasVoolgaris]

You didn't mention that Bendis essentially didn't kill Peter, he brought him back even when Miles' series was going on.