The Ultimately Forgotten Origin Of The MCU

In today's media landscape, it's hard to find someone who doesn't know the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Spanning over a decade of films, Marvel has created one of the most profitable studios of all time. Though the entire origin of the MCU was established by one of Marvels most popular comic runs, The Ultimates. But how exactly did The Ultimates inspire the MCU?
#marvel #mcu #nerdstalgic
Written by Dave Baker
Edited by Nick Murphy

[@ThePatxiao]

Spider-Man has a tendency of creating new universes because of how popular his series are. Ultimate, 2099 and MC2. They generally become the most remembered part of those universes as well.

[@Nerdstalgic]

MC2 was great. As was 2099. And you're right. The imprints the spider-people supported usually never lived up to their successes.

[@nadavwex]

IIRC Spider-Man 2099 didn't launch 2099 by itself; there were also Doom 2099, Ghost Rider 2099 and a couple others that started around the same time

[@glenwaldrop8166]

@@nadavwex Pretty sure the story was the Spider-Man 2099 was the original idea and it was expanded on as a gimmick. Only one survived though... I was reading comics back then, they told the story of how they came up with the idea somewhere, probably in one of the 2099 comics letters section.

[@10willybilly]

What MC2, I tried to google it and can’t find anything

[@bS0up]

@@10willybilly and alternate comic continuity with aged-up characters like a retired Spider-Man

[@46sn29]

I always knew the MCU was at least partially based off the Ultimates. Especially when they cast Samuel L Jackson and gave Steve Rogers superhuman strength instead of just peak human abilities. But I didn't know it had THIS much of an impact. I wonder if the MCU would have been as successful if they just stuck with 616.

[@Nerdstalgic]

I mean, there's a LOT of 616 in the early MCU as well. New Avengers is very inter-related to the movies, as is the Warren Ellis and Matt Fractions Ironman runs. Same thing with the J. Michael Strazynki Thor stuff. They pull from all over. But the aesthetic and tone (other than maybe some of the comedy stuff) is pretty directly pulled from the comics

[@OdaKa]

I was expecting Tom Holland's Peter to die once he became an avenger

[@moonrunnerisland1949]

@@OdaKa he did if you think about it. I don’t wanna go….

[@Salik96]

​@@OdaKa He did in infinity war.

[@OdaKa]

@@Salik96 oh yeah that's right, I guess that counts. But also kind of not since a bunch of others died from the same thing. I was talking about actually dying though

[@ntcnetwork9934]

The MCU perfected what Ultimate Comics was trying to do in my opinion. Update the origin stories in a simple easy to relate to manner for modern times, and expand from there. The MCU had the benefit of being made during a more escapist time in pop culture, whereas the Ultimate comics got bogged down by the grim realism and edginess of it’s time.

[@maxxgunner5573]

Right? The MCU may have been inspired by the Ultimate Marvel Comics, but that's only in the "aesthetics, feel and scope" approach. If they featured worst traits that were inconsistent to the OG Marvel Universe, it would have been unwatchable and a major flop. If anything, personality and moral-wise, the MCU is more akin to the aforementioned OG Prime Marvel Universe, Earth-616. And I like that more and grew up with it more. Plus, the Ultimates or Ultimate X-Men kinda lack the same wit, heart and soul of Stan Lee. The TRUE Man who made Marvel Comics. 12-15 year old me would have loved The Ultimates between 2011-2014; but adult me, absolutely not.

[@ntcnetwork9934]

@@maxxgunner5573 I feel ya my guy!

[@PleasantKenobi]

Great video. Ultimates really worked for me, Ultimate X-Men got me hooked, and Ultimates really sold me on Marvel, when up to that point, I was just a Batman fan boy in "High school". Nostalgic video in some ways, the Ultimate Marvel stuff is rarely talked about these days.

[@Nerdstalgic]

The book is a huge influence on all super hero movies and really deserves to be discussed and respected.

[@legendaryhero27]

I’m stuck on why you put high school in quotes😂. Like does that mean you werent really in high school?

[@maxxgunner5573]

Except for the way they turned into jerks. That was kind of a turn off for me. Plus I grew up with the 616 comics more, it had a perfect balance of flawed but sympathetic and genuinely noble and good superheroes in ridiculous but cool colorful suits and risking their lives to save the world with no selfish intent.

[@eoinPalmer]

With all due respect, the biggest difference between The Ultimates and the MCU is that in the MCU Avengers are likable people

[@meep9231]

Exactly

[@rudesword2852]

Only because you think they're funny and quippy. If you look at their backstories they're almost all aholes like the ultimates but they have mostly off camera redemption arcs to, in essence, become the MCU avengers. Stark is an alcoholic weapons developer war profiteer that doesn't think about how many brown people he's indirectly killing, black widow is an assassin with a very large red ledger, Thor is an entitled warrior prince that wants to smash adversaries while never using diplomacy, Hawkeye is a government agent/assassin willing to kill on an order, hulk is a fearful conceited scientist that doesn't want his formula to be used as a weapon so he experiments on himself and kills who knows how many people in the resultant skirmishes he has with the army. Captain America is the only one who isnt much like his ultimate counterpart in temperament.

[@maxxgunner5573]

Right? The MCU may have been inspired by the Ultimate Marvel Comics, but that's only in the "aesthetics, feel and scope" approach. If they featured worst traits that were inconsistent to the OG Marvel Universe, it would have been unwatchable and a major flop. If anything, personality and moral-wise, the MCU is more akin to the aforementioned OG Prime Marvel Universe, Earth-616. And I like that more and grew up with it more. Plus, the Ultimates or Ultimate X-Men kinda lack the same wit, heart and soul of Stan Lee. The TRUE Man who made Marvel Comics. 12-15 year old me would have loved The Ultimates between 2011-2014; but adult me, absolutely not.

[@vonvard9765]

I was actually working at a comic book shop when the ultimate thing started. It was popular but the old school nerds like myself had some trepidation. Little did we know what would happen.

[@CokinaClutch]

there is another comic that paved the way for the ultimates. it was called "the authority" and published by DC/wildstorm. and it was written by Warren Ellis who also pitched the idea of the ultimate universe as a way to tell classic stories in a modern way and later by mark millar who also wrote the ultimates

[@Nerdstalgic]

100 percent. The Authority is basically what Millar and Hitch were riffing on with Ultimates. Absolutely.

[@panthergod]

@@Nerdstalgic Ultimates is a direct thematic sequel to Authority and Stormwatch by Ellis and Millar.

[@Zombiesnyder13]

Kevin Feige was the only one to save IRON MAN from AVI ARAD

[@chasehedges6775]

Also: Kevin Feige: *Makes mediocre Phase 4*

[@johnrb0213]

@Chase Hedges67 all Feige did to turn the MCU into what it is...and thats your WHOLE Definition of the guy??

[@BrianGriffinW]

I’ll never forgive him for what he did for Spider-Man 3 😢

[@Zombiesnyder13]

@@BrianGriffinW and he'll do the same with Kraven The Hunter and Borderlands

[@Tores444]

I'd say Jon Favrue had a big hand in that too

[@LenBerry]

I'm so glad MCU Captain America has a moral compass. His Ultimates counterpart is nothing but a bully and a thug--just the kind of guy the MCU version doesn't care for. So, yes, the MCU Avengers are visually the Ultimates, but the characters get to be much more heroic.

[@meep9231]

Mhmm

[@Nerdstalgic]

Totally. Well put.

[@panthergod]

SO... JUST LIKE America?

[@wordyballoons]

I’m glad you made this video. Too many people unfairly call the ultimates comic cynical and edgy when in reality it was really novel for its time and had a huge influence on the MCU. I still think it’s a better story than the first avengers movie.

[@Wergoheb]

Mark Millar in general is cynical and edgy, so this is a weird hill to die on

[@overthinkingloki]

Ultimates 1 isn't too cynical and edgy. But that whole ultimate universe led into Ultimatum, which is exactly the kind of garbage folks claim it is. I do think Ultimates started with good intentions... but how the hell are you gonna kill off a teenage Spiderman and it not be cynical and edgy?

[@dlxmarks]

@@overthinkingloki Ultimates started off as an intriguing concept but, yeah, I think it went down the path of "to the extreme" and lost its way.

[@JoybuzzerX]

I loved Ultimate Spider-Man, is started sucking once they killed off Peter to replace him with Miles. Sales would tend to agree with that statement, as Miles run had decreased sales after the first couple of issues (and #1 issues always tend to sell high due to collectors). Ultimates was terrible. Hated what they did with Cap. X-Men was up and down for me. However, Spider-Man was the best.

[@William-the-Guy]

the ending of the the ultimates was cynical and pretty terrible. but that took years to get to. They had almost a decade of preetbaold stories before that point. I even enjoyed Ultimates 2, which is often criticized for being too political.

[@jearl75290]

The Ultimate line overall had some high-highs and low-lows.

[@ClassicLow101]

Spot on 🎯

[@Nerdstalgic]

Ain't that the truth. Ultimates 3. Yikes.

[@TheOnlyRealGamerOnEarth]

One of my favourite movies when I was a kid was an animated movie based off this series. It was awesome.

[@Nerdstalgic]

There's a sequel too, right? I've only ever seen the first one... I feel like I remember liking it but wanting it to have an art style more like Hitch.

[@TheOGSpartanNinja]

@@Nerdstalgic There was a sequel that added Black Panther to the mix and continued the story like from the previous, and a next generation movie, as well as five movies for individual characters (two were for Hulk).

[@goon5031]

Ultimate Avengers

[@TheOnlyRealGamerOnEarth]

@@Nerdstalgic Dude oh my gosh, y'all just brought back so many memories of these movies. They truly were ahead of their time.

[@Bonzulac]

Though it's true that the Millar/Hitch Ultimates title was hugely influential to aesthetic of the film adaptations, it was Bendis making the 616 Avengers Marvel's number one best seller that inspired them to think an Avengers movie could be popular.

[@maxxgunner5573]

Thank you. The Ultimates only inspired the MCU through tone and aesthetics, but it felt soulless for me. The 616 comics for the Avengers were the true best sellers for me. The Ultimate Marvel may have saved the company, but they still should have made them more likable. Especially with what they did to Hulk (a cannibal rapist, instead of a lovable sympathetic gentle giant who wants to help and protect ppl and fight for good), Black Widow (a traitor-snake who is hard to root for, instead of an anti-heroic assassin with a heart of gold and redemption and will to fight for the side of good), Captain America (a racist walking testosterone-poisoned cliche, instead of the kind and brave sympathetic heroic soldier who defies the 40s bigoted ways and make a good change of equality and justice), Deadpool (an uglier Deathlok knock-off who hates and hunts mutants, instead of the lovable, comedic anti-heroic merc with a mouth) and Wolverine (a complete sociopathic pedophile, instead of the gruff but loveable wise mutant who has respect for some ppl including the ones he hate).

[@brettgoldsmith9971]

This was a really well done, well put together video. Just really nice to see. Thank you.

[@jfeddx]

Fantastic video! The Ultimate Universe is such an interesting topic now that the MCU has brought so many of its core characters into the public conscious. Would love to see your thoughts on Ultimatum - the crossover that arguably killed the Ultimate Universe.

[@alejandrogonzalez9840]

Oh man it definitely killed the Ultimate universe

[@maxxgunner5573]

I think the overly dark and unrealistic take on the Avengers, I mean, "The Ultimates," by turning them into major butt-holes without being faithful to the OG vision from Stan Lee, personality and morality-wise is what kinda killed the Ultimate Universe for me.

[@hallamhal]

I don't half miss some of those earlier films though, where not every plot had to be a high stakes save the universe struggle, and the connections between superheroes were just hinted at and occasionally paid off

[@Zombiesnyder13]

Make a video about how LAURA ZISKIN helped to make Sam Raimi's SPIDER-MAN into a landmark And how she saved SPIDER-MAN 2 from AVI ARAD

[@rdstovall]

This was very good! It is forgotten and I'm glad you brought this up.

[@SuddenReal]

The Fantastic Four movie tried to do the same, but they only seem to have read the first issue of Ultimate Fantastic Four.

[@ilpochino]

This could also go a long way into explaining why the next phase of the MCU has been faltering. The ultimates essentially gave them storyboards to follow and every director and screenwriter has been essentially navigating their stories to moments. That's something that seems to be lacking in just about every other part of the MCU with the exception of the guardians of the Galaxy. However I feel like that was bolstered by the fact that the guardians of the Galaxy essentially became whatever James Gunn wanted them to be.

[@animesempai0]

I remember reading the ultimates when I was 13, great comic book series. Never really thought about it being the jumping off point for the mcu, brilliant video.

[@Nerdstalgic]

Thanks! We worked hard on it ! :)

[@animesempai0]

@@Nerdstalgic you're welcome, keep up the hard work.

[@arthurfortes8398]

I am so happy you did not mention Ultimates 3, especially given it is hated by pretty much everyone who read it. Ultimates 1 and 2 are the only ones who should be read.

[@lukasluna7475]

What Ultimates 3? The series ended on a high note with book 2 and no one ever heard of a lazy, parodic 3rd installment

[@Nerdstalgic]

Ultimates 3? I don't think there is a third book where Sabertooth screams SUCK IT while punching a dinosaur. I'm pretty sure the book just ended at 2.

[@SuddenReal]

3 had some interesting ideas, but I feel it was rushed. If it had been the scope of 1 and 2, it would have been a lot better, but they didn't have enough issues, so things moved too fast.

[@arthurfortes8398]

@@Nerdstalgic great video and answer, Nerdstalgic, please read my suggestions for future videos: 1) What makes Lalo Salamanca a terrifying villain. 2) What makes Kilgrave a terrifying villain. 3) How Cobra Kai honors Karate Kid. 4) The perfect finale of The Wire. 5) What makes Homelander so scary. 6) Why is Game of Thrones finale so disappointing. 7) Agents of Shield - The most underrated live action superhero show. 8) Superman TAS - The most underrated animation superhero show. 9) Why Hellboy 1 and 2 were ahead of their time. 10) Why The Leftovers' finale is perfect. 11) Legion - The perfect X-men show nobody talks about. 12) What makes Arcane so special.

[@lukasluna7475]

@@SuddenReal no doubt, the set up from 2 and the idea of magneto's children having to fight him in open battle is great. However, the problem was more the writer than anything else. Loeb proved to fundamentally misunderstand the characterization. Instead of big personalities brushing up against each other, but ultimately coming together in service of the noble ideal of heroism, we just got a bunch of assholes who hated each other

[@alexandrefrauches132]

While not big fan of the Ultimate universe , really appreciate how some of it's elements were used to create the MCU, showing how adaptation aren't just stuck to one single version of source material. It can use elements from many version, creating a new one for the fans (both the ones who want to learn about the characters, and the one who already know the story). Plus, if wasn't for Ultimate universe, there wouldn't have been Bendis Ultimate Spider Man, one the best comic books and one the best new takes on Spider Man and his mythology (alongside Sam Raimi films, the PS4 game and Spectacular Spider Man cartoon).

[@Nerdstalgic]

Agreed! Well put!

[@alejandrogonzalez9840]

Awesome video man I was always hoping you’d do a video like this

[@calebclay2713]

You’ve been dropping great content lately😮‍💨🔥

[@BaithNa]

Thor is confirmed to be a real Asgardian at the end of Ultimates 2, when he summons an Asgardian army to help fight Loki's forces.

[@prenticeclark1454]

Thanks so much for this video! As a follower of the MCU films with no real knowledge of the comic book origins, I found this really fascinating

[@kylev.1163]

I always thought it was wierd how in Spiderman: Far From Home, Mysterio mentions an alternatative earth 616 that turns out to be a ruse to win over the glasses. But also, his made up origin was what they essentially introduced in future MCU movies with the Multriverse coming in to play. In theory, Mysterio shouldn't have even been familiar with the concept. But i wish that would have been his real origin. Its hard to get behind mysterios powers all being just technology.

[@Adoniis101]

Umm, him knowing of the possibility would be no different than us knowing of the possibility. You’re thinking too much.

[@SuddenReal]

The multiverse has been a theory for decades and isn't just exclusive to comics. So, while Mysterio didn't know that there actually is a multiverse, he does know of the theory of alternate dimensions. And don't forget, the oldest trick to con someone is to tell them a lie so incredible to believe it must be true.

[@Shalalacls]

Also, it was wrong, cause I believe they gave an official number to the MCU Earth and it's not 616, so it was clearly just a nod in the script.

[@lonestar2078]

@@Shalalacls indeed. MCU is 19999

[@SuddenReal]

@@Shalalacls It was a clever insert, one that made the casual fanboy go "hey, reference!" while it made the smarter fanboy go "hang on, that's not right..."

[@j.j.herrick6871]

When I was an intern at Marvel I worked in the office in charge of 3 books Dr Strange, Conan and Nick Fury. Nick Fury was my favorite book of the three but I wasn’t a fan of the artist we used. The artist was basically a John Buscema imitator. While it had a 70s classic look I didn’t think it fit a book in the 90s. At the time Bryan Hitch was relative newcomer working on Deaths Head in the UK. He looked a lot like my favorite artist Alan Davis and I pleaded with the editor in charge to see if Hitch would do the Nick Fury book. Unfortunately we didn’t as the artist we were using had just helped design some super powered shield agents that they thought was going to save the book. After the semester was over the super agents of shield arc came out, it was pretty terrible and I think the comic was eventually cancelled and Hitch left the company to do other work. What could have been.

[@NathanMShapiro]

I have to quibble with this a little bit. There’s one thing the Ultimates did that the MCU (thankfully) didn’t: gratuitous changes to the 616 characterization for shock value. MCU is very much the 616 characters with a lot of the ultimates aesthetic. But if they adapted the ultimates directly and not the classic source material…wouldn’t have been good

[@The_Infamous_Boogyman]

Spidey is for sure my guy, and I always liked iron man, but making me care for cap and Thor was a feat I thought to be insurmountable. They really made it work

[@rudesword2852]

You should do the authority by ellis and hitch and then millar and quitley. The ellis hitch run was the first wide screen photo realistic comic book i can remember. It was the mark 1 version of the ultimates. Storywise it wasn't anything terribly new or inventive that hadnt been done before, but visually it was a giant sized leap for cinematic storytelling. Millar and hitch both springboarded from there to the ultimates and leads into your video from there.

[@bluesman9832]

I am so grateful that they modeled the series off of the Ultimates. The comics were coming out when my wife and I were working for a multimedia store and we both loved them! We ended up buying all of the graphic novels as they were released.

[@mttylerdurden9]

The Ultimate universe was one of my favorite things coming from marvel. ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, and The Ultimates we're my favorite.

[@SlevinKalevera]

Man, what a great video! Now I wanna go read The Ultimates.

[@issacmatthews934]

Wow!! Your right , I never thought about it like that before 🤯

[@thomaskuzma4360]

With rose of the beasts coming out, I suggest the Transformers Comic known as More Than Meets the Eye or Last Stand of the Wreckers. Or just go with Beast Wars, they literally transformed the franchise into a story and character based series that went into Lore and an understanding that these aren't just robots, they are a technological race of transforming beings

[@dimirockeropoulos6104]

As soon as l picked up the Ultimates back in 2002 l felt like l was reading a movie script. The dysfunctional nature of the Ultimates would've been interesting to see on the screen.

[@HarvestStore]

Great video.

[@deaf-tomcat]

I've been hesitant to read The Ultimates, but I might try them out.

[@Nightmster]

Mark Millar doesn't write comics, he writes colourful movie pitches. I'm glad that they only take some general clues in terms of story beats and design elements from the Ultimate universe, given how... much of a dick basically everyone is in the Ultimate comics :'D

[@Nerdstalgic]

Yeah, these days Millar is kind of a parody of himself. And his business model is not beneficial for the ecosystem of comics and creators rights. However, he's made some good work over the years. His Wolverine run, FF, Civil War, even parts of Wanted were cool. Until it went off the rails

[@AdronBuske]

This exactly. The big divergence from Ultimates to MCU is the desire and ability to creat likable characters. Millar ruined most of the Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men characters by turning them all into raging jerks. He doesn’t seem to know how else to do it. His version of Cap is particularly atrocious. I worked in a comic shop when The Ultimates came out. It was very popular, but everyone thought it was an Authority knock off, and reader reactions were typically “this is awesome! I mean, I hate everyone in it, but still, awesome!”

[@panthergod]

@@AdronBuske..It's a parody to critique America's fascism. Just like Stormwatch before it. Cry more.

[@AdronBuske]

@@panthergod Perhaps it was Millar's attempt at satire, but that doesn't mean it was executed well. And that excuse wouldn't apply to his characterizations in Ultimate X-Men, which were equally problematic. Really, it's just the way he writes characters. When it comes to Stormwatch/Authority, Millar was following Warren Ellis's lead, just (imo) not doing it as well. Also, "cry more"? C'mon, we can have reasonable critical discussion/disagreement without resorting to teenage gamer cringe, right? This isn't fortnite.

[@diegodreossi1458]

Its cool see comic books here

[@DanielBeadle511]

Grant Morrison's run on JLA in the late '90s COULD HAVE been the roadmap for DC's movies, but it doesn't seem like anyone was looking at the big picture. Morrison was Millar's mentor, and was a driving force behind the "widescreen" comics of that era.

[@HejaWolf]

This is why I love the Ultimate Marvel comics! Despite some aspects not aging well, I always had a good time reading those comics and it laid the foundation of not only the MCU, but other aspects of the Marvel universe. Marvel Zombies, introduced in Ultimate Fantastic 4. Miles Morales, Ultimate Spider-Man. The various designs used in the movies and such, the various Ultimate Marvel comics. Heck, it even popularized the whole reboot idea if you think about it. While it's usually used as a dirty term, back then, it showed that reboots can be done well. It's nuts, but awesome how influential the Ultimate Marvel comics were.

[@MaVeRiCK216]

Would love to see a High Fidelity video. They did a great job adapting a British story in an American setting.

[@mdpeterson27]

This is absolutely true when it comes to the look. Great point there. But the Characters are completely different. In The Ultimates the “characters weren’t heroes. The Banner jumps from a plane or helicopter scene. In the movies he’s a hero who decides to save a neighborhood or die trying. In the he’s pushed. Tony Stark isn’t a repentant man who’s seen what his tech has done to the world. He’s a playboy playing with his invention. Movie Captain America is a man who’s scene so much violence he’s tired of it. In the Ultimates he loves it and uses it without any heart or reluctance.

[@omniviewer2115]

The Ultimate universe also introduced cannibalism, incest, and it leaned into Hank Pym being an abusive psychopath. Yeah, some stuff was kept out for a reason.

[@Nerdstalgic]

Yeah, the hulk eating a dude was pretty funny, the other two... not as big a fan of. the 2000's man. They were EDGEYYYYY.

[@SuddenReal]

@@Nerdstalgic Yes... the cannibalism part is the Hulk eating the Skrull... definitily not the Blob eating the Wasp... Because that was just... God no...

[@claytondavis6835]

I mean it took a lot from it but thankfully not the worst bits. Like Hulk being a cannibal

[@stapuft]

you kinda forgot, about how they SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED the new versions of the heroes, to look like actors/actresses that thet creators of those heroes wanted to play them, WITHOUT EVER ASKING PERMISSION, or paying them, which got them into some trouble with a few people, causing them to change their designs, while others, were actually flattered, and those comics were what made them want to be in the movies, should they ever get made. (sam jackson being the latter, not the former)

[@matiasmir1550]

It would be interesting a video about MIRACLEMAN

[@brennanscarcello1443]

And the DCEU tried to use the New 52 as its blueprint, one of the most hated retcons in comics History.

[@fireworksfactoryshow]

I think a video on Marvel's Age of Apocalypse would be downright awesome.

[@crazedmimic]

Its wild how the Ultimate universe and the Ultimates comic specifically would start so strong, then crash spectacularly in the end. The one series that stayed consistently good through out the Ultimate run would be Spider-Man.

[@The.Ronin.Kuzuri]

To be fair I haven't watched this yet, but I just got the omnibus for the Ultimates as well as the animated movies again and I cannot wait to dive back in. I wish more people knew about it, especially since the MCU would not exist as it does today without it.

[@trevonpernell0814]

5:58 ANOTHA!

[@chaisrocha9853]

The reason why we got the MCU was because fox had the x-men rights and sony had smider man's so the only option was to capitalize on the properties marvel still had

[@mrgreatbigmoose]

Please do JUSTICE as illustrated by Alex Ross. Yes, it's not as much fun as Kingdom Come, and yes, it's not Ultimates, but it does show a really good contemporary DC story. It's the book that made me see Aquaman in a different light.

[@scottthewolfgamer]

There were also 2 animated movies that came out both named after both comic series: Ultimate Avengers and Ultimate Avengers 2

[@sullivancalgary]

I have to get my hands on that original 13 series

[@Lavenderlore1043]

Rob over at ComicsExplained never lets us forget.. Rob remembers.

[@Nerdstalgic]

Rob is a good dude for that, haha

[@Rodlikespants]

Nerdstalgic doing a video on the ultimate 1610 universe? Instant like

[@juanss9383]

Do a video about George Romero's Resident Evil

[@binchcity6119]

Weird to claim there was nothing like The Ultimates blockbuster spectacle when Hitch came to that job straight off The Authority with Ellis, which prefigured that entire mode of wide-screen comics entirely. Strange omission; great video otherwise.

[@craigjomaia]

Or Kingdom Come over at DC, a non stop blockbuster spectacle that came out several years before The Ultimates.

[@panthergod]

@@craigjomaia Or JLA by Grant Morrison, which Authority was a direct challenge to.

[@DrKillShotEsquire]

I was disappointed that in the Avengers movie they didn't fight the Hulk at the end of it. Honestly thought they were going to

[@mrgreatbigmoose]

I've always found the Hulk is so hard to write for movies. Unless it's Gray Hulk, or Professor Hulk, etc. how do you make mindlessness something the audience invests in? You'd be making a Godzilla movie.

[@mickeymouse7726]

Ultimate marvel comics was very dark man

[@Zombiesnyder13]

Everything was heading towards INFINITY WAR and ENDGAME Now the MCU became one big bubble, ready to burst

[@Devils_Lair_Comics]

🙄

[@jamcalx]

True.

[@Devils_Lair_Comics]

@@jamcalx it's not true. This person is just hopping on the "it's cool to shit on the MCU now" bandwagon

[@jamcalx]

@@Devils_Lair_Comics I actually happen to agree, because I worry that the MCU would start to lose luster eventually when they got bought by Disney. Whether or not it's for the reasons you say or not neither of us can say, but his statement is an appt one in my eyes.

[@captainbotstick2443]

@@jamcalx it’s been owned by Disney for almost its entirety

[@lpjunior999]

Joss Whedon wrote the forward for the Vol. 1 hardcover of Ultimates but we don’t need to bring him up.

[@dariodavis56]

Were these characters really d listers before the mcu? If so i cant imagine that

[@reneastorgaterre1954]

If you wanna look up a great comic book story, go with DareDevil: Born Again or The Man Without Fear, truly the defining stories about the Devil of Hell's Kitchen.

[@lacrartezorok4975]

The Ultimates just exist because before there was The Authority, the single most influential comic book in the first decade of the 21st century. Both Millar and Hitch worked there, just not together. The first three arcs, written by Warren Ellis and drawn by Bryan Hitch are like a movie trilogy.

[@panthergod]

Stormwatch before the Authority.

[@ameliaarrows2790]

It certainly demonstrates why the first three phases of the mcu were great

[@moisesinfantes2797]

I hate when people say the Avengers were mid tier charactrs and team. that not true at all. probably to the public but not in the fandom, comic, geek, world. They have always been very popular. Even before the MCU I really liked characters like Ironman and Hulk.

[@petermj1098]

Exactly if you read the comics you know the Avengers were important in the Marvel universe. It was only till the movies the Avengers became mainstream

[@moisesinfantes2797]

@@petermj1098 All the cool marvel villains like thanos, ultron, kang, the masters of evil korvack, Loki are all avengers villains, but people still want to say they were a b lister team.

[@blash7991]

Did Browntable kind of touch on the same subject?

[@scottthong9274]

The Ultimate imprint was great during its early run, especially The Ultimates 1 & 2, Ultimate War, Ultimate Nightmare, Ultimate Extinction. Unfortunately it devolved into standard comic plotline fare by Ultimates 3.

[@talos935]

I liked this one

[@takeawildguess.5525]

Not many people know that the marvel cinematic universe is actually based on a universe of comic books by the same name

[@professorbaxtercarelessdre1075]

a fun history lesson/retorspective if nothing else

[@tylerhackner9731]

Love the first iron man

[@chasehedges6775]

Still one of the best Marvel films and superhero films of all time.

[@ryzigg7187]

guys i've got a drinking game - take a shot for every whoosh sound effect

[@jonathankreamer]

One thing I've never understood....if Mysterio/Beck was just using Stark tech to create literal VR, how is his acknowledgement of the multiverse: A) even a thing, and B) credible?

[@Morlock19]

when talking about the large scale, cinematic style - the ultimates weren't the first. that would arguably be the authority by ellis and yes HITCH in 1999. hitch was tapped for the ultimates BECAUSE of his work ont he authority. so no, the ultimates didn't do this style first. was it good? definitely. but credit where its due.

[@LeonardoKlotz]

Before Disney took over The MCU was following its own rules

[@chasehedges6775]

And the MCU was doing awesome.

[@chasehedges6775]

Even under Disney, they had some good products, but the Stan Lee died…

[@princeampadu8739]

@@chasehedges6775 well if you consider that they already had those projects lined up before lee died, then they still were their own stuff till the start of phase 4. with the disney+ stuff

[@kevin10001]

@@princeampadu8739I would say when Isaac Perlmutter was demoted to marvel tv front being the head of marvel is when Disney got more say in the movies and they went down to being unwatchable movies and really showed the movies can’t stand on there own cause of how they interconnected the movies the connections to other movies should move the plot a lot not stop the movie to make the reference to another movie

[@luismedrano6680]

@@chasehedges6775 phase 4 is doing quite well at least commercially, 5.5 billion with wakanda forever being the 7th film and final film. It best out phase 1 3.8 billion and phase 2 5.2 billion without any iron man, cap, or avengers movies during this phase

[@ChamarM]

I wish the MCU used Ultimate Spider-Men as a blueprint for Tom Holland's Spidey don't get wrong I like what they're doing with Tom but I feel like Tom would've been a perfect live action Ultimate Spidey

[@craigjomaia]

Spidey is the weirdest adaptaion because MCU Spidey is basically Pete living Miles' life. Ned is obviously Ganke and the school and much of the rest are straight lifts from Miles Morales Spider-Man.

[@RLeVeriteArt]

Love the video. Nerdstalgic never misses. Although I will have to disagree with one small sentence/line (and this might be a hot take I'll get flack for): "It (the MCU) is just the Ultimates." No. The Ultimates IS the better version of the MCU.

[@gordyjacques]

Being this early feels great

[@zillaquazar]

Ultimate Avengers has a nice ring to it. We could write a whole ultimate marvel generation spanning the next 15 years of movies and shows will all new cast

[@nukabat5386]

I found it weird @eeing the Ultimates on Screen but their personalities were from the 616.

[@TaekLuutzen]

I think that if DC adapted the Authority books from Ellis and Millar but replaced the characters with Justice League characters (the Authority members are basically stand-ins for JL characters), DC could potentially keep up with the MCU. Especially with the state of the world currently as the backdrop.

[@panthergod]

Yeah, no. Snyder already tried that with Justice League, a Wildstorm esque JL. No. They need to ground it in Kingdom Cone visually and Morrison’s JLA thematically, with aspects of Authority/ Elite to contrast the edgelord stuff vs classical heroism.

[@Howuf]

How did Mysterio know about that reality being called 616 if he was faking being from another dimension?

[@uchihabomber1296]

Yeah a lot of the MCU really is based off the ultimate universe for sure. Although I’d say a massive majority of MCU fans don’t even know what a comic book is and only have movie lore about the characters

[@TheNcc1701xyz]

A major factor was that the top tier characters had all been sold off to movie studios. Luckily for marvel and us was that they had to look at the characters they could use, otherwise we may never have had iron man, thor ant man etc

[@zackvannarsdall6186]

I see we stopped before we had to mention Ultimates 3

[@animatorFan74]

Great video.... I had heard they based some of the movies off the Ultimates but didn't reali8ze they stuck that closely to it. Have you heard of or seen the Valiant Universe of comics? Valiant is a publisher like Marvel or DC and they have comics like Bloodshot and Ninjak. Bloodshot was adapted to a movie a couple of years ago with Vin Diesel in the title role. It's a very good action movie and they're trying to make their own Cinematic Universe like their own MCU. Maybe you'd like to check them out? Looks interesting. :)

[@Nerdstalgic]

Yep! very familiar with Valiant. They also published all the old Dell Gold Key characters in the 90's and then got bought by a video game company that turned Turok into one of the best video games ever. :)

[@animatorFan74]

@@Nerdstalgic awesome :)

[@Joecbg100]

Love me some Ultimates retrospective.

[@meep9231]

Agreed, at least the good qualities of the comics. Too bad multiple shitty characterizations were keeping the universe from being as special as it could’ve been

[@Joecbg100]

@@meep9231 there's cynicism and then there's this

[@meep9231]

@@Joecbg100 I’m not being cynical

[@Joecbg100]

@@meep9231 no i mean the comic IS, there's little actual humanity in here.

[@meep9231]

@@Joecbg100 yeah, i will say that the artist definitely knew how to make the panels feel cinematic and epic in scale. In some points the characters do feel human but there’s so little of that humanity by the time ultimatum rolled around.

[@firefool125]

The thor change is pretty funny. Can't care about the environment, and be a status quo hero after all /s

[@mathismath2098]

Oh yeah baby

[@the5thsun]

You said “majestic execution” and Roland Emmerich in the same sentence 🥶

[@Nerdstalgic]

we're out here trying, man. we're trying haha ;)

[@AdronBuske]

I wish you would have touched on why the Ultimate universe is largely forgotten (as implied by the video title). It was both the template for how to do these characters/stories cinematically, AND a dire example of how to crash and burn a franchise. Bendis’s terrific Ultimate Spidey aside, Marvel Comics let a small handful of creators run wild in the Ultimate universe, going full edgelord grimdark. They ruined it so hard that the whole line had to be buried. As you showed, there’s no doubt that the Ultimates were the blueprint for the MCU. But it was also a cautionary tale, and one of the best arguments for Feige’s firm hand on the MCU’s rudder (and the eventual expulsion of the “brain trust” of comic scribes attached early on).

[@mrink8822]

that's the secret cap i'm always angry

[@hauser8130]

Ultimates was my ultimate Avengers origin, in my 17