The Fatal Flaw in HP's Omen 45L broke me

[@LinusTechTips]

Hey folks! We've heard complaints that our Overall Performance Graphs at 10:10 are misleading, and we are deeply sorry about it. Starting axis values at 0 is our policy, but these graphs slipped through the cracks. It is not our intention to mislead the audience, and we hope that you'll forgive us for this oversight. Here is a link to corrected graphs: imgur.com/a/W5kZ97N

[@PrakharBaisakhiyar]

I came here to comment on this exact thing. Thanks for fixing it.

[@JarzWasTaken]

9 likes on this comment bruh

[@dotdotdot1000]

It's hardly a big deal anyway. God techfans are such spergs

[@MartinFinnerup]

@@dotdotdot1000 Expecting thorough and fair reviews, and transparancy about mistakes is not being "spergs". Good on LTT for correcting themselves. :)

[@drakepotatoe6452]

Can I please have a gtx 1650

[@HecklerUK]

OK, you got me with the HPenis line... well played to which ever writer/editor did that.

[@Astronautbrownboi]

Time ?

[@slackygaming9688]

@@Astronautbrownboi 11:00

[@doctorvondoom6368]

Shhh spoilers

[@bloodreapergaming8901]

At least censor the word!

[@RamkrishanYT]

@@doctorvondoom6368 clown 🤡

[@Verlisify]

Why do companies keep having such weird issues with their pre-builds

[@0638]

Hi linus tech tips

[@Admiral__]

It's literally cheaping out on the motherboard. That's their biggest way of cost cutting while still making the system "work" and most people won't do this digging into their system after they buy a prebuilt.

[@DailyCorvid]

These poor quality pre-builds are just collections of unsold components cobbled together in a fancy RGB case. That's why they are so bad, the components were not chosen together for any other reason that, they had loads of the stuff lying around unsold. Decent prebuilds are as good as anything you will make yourself, but there is no interest in people reviewing those sadly so people never see them.

[@drodmanfan8939]

I haven’t seen you since Shofu’s diss track

[@jakdan6598]

Dang bro I forgot you were still on KZbin. I use to watch you back when I was in middle school.

[@mrwhiskers5210]

Hey LTT, Can you try ripping out all the hp parts and build a PC in their case using off the shelf parts. Compare it with a similar size conventional case to compare the real gains of a case like this?

[@VoldoronGaming]

Great idea for a follow up video. Everybody up vote this comment.

[@Emell09]

I was hoping to see Linus rip everything out and do any other comparison!!

[@Da40kOrks]

just needs a motherboard swap

[@spiv]

probably didnt because the case isnt available as a stand alone purchase yet

[@lordofnothing.]

yes. i want to see that.

[@slinkytrips]

For those wondering the unpainted bits are part of the Faraday cage of the case. As a mass market device HP have to meet radio frequency regulations from the FCC and others. A fully metal case would do this but they wanted a glass window. As glass has no shielding properties they need to put a special coating on the glass which is then bonded to the metal frame, that metal frame has to make contact with the rest of the case hence the lack of paint. Case manufacturers who sell just an empty case with no electronics don't have to meet these regulations but your PC will be susceptible to interference without proper shielding.

[@pratyushjayachandran]

Thank you for posting. Now it makes sense.

[@tzuyd]

I wanted to give you a Like, but you're already at 69. You understand.

[@CybershamanX]

The FCC regulations are meant to limit unintentional radiofrequency radiation emitted from digital equipment, including PCs and peripherals, to nearby intentional radio equipment, such as TVs and, well, radios. 😉

[@TheSonicFan4]

@@tzuyd now he's at 169

[@tzuyd]

@@TheSonicFan4 God dammit people

[@kyslem]

I’d suggest building a separate control rig in a “normal” case an do the benchmarks. Then build that same pc in this case and repeat them. This way you can leave HP’s bull out of the equation and test the case’s cryo chamber’s performance on it’s own

[@NoTraceOfSense]

-There’s always the problem that a lot of prebuilt use proprietary connectors for IO.- Which they shouldn’t have if they’re selling it separately.

[@DanKaschel]

I really wanted them to just swap out the motherboard and run the same tests.

[@BC_CARS]

I nominate the H510 as it’s considered “that” case everywhere. Everyone knows about it damn near everyone has used it

[@abtinz7127]

I actually got this computer and the cyro chamber works great

[@borderhopper2148]

@@abtinz7127 have you done any switching parts out?

[@YoureWierdImN0t]

If they just did things "normally" then this would be a hard system to beat as a prebuilt. Even as an out of the box run and gun user would have a spectacular system. Especially considering the GPU is 60% of the cost of the system anyway.

[@Defender004]

Yeah. And this case just looks awesome especially compared to dell Alienware computers which look like plastics bombers

[@bangerairsoft4086]

Except clearly it was moving plenty of air

[@The_Stick36]

@@Chris-hw4mq if that's an issue just remove the front glass panel if you really need that extra airflow

[@saifaddeenal-manaseer6325]

@@Chris-hw4mq but it's for the gpu, hence it is not as bad.

[@gordon7478]

@@Chris-hw4mq Watch the video. Coming performance is fantastic. Too bad the implementation of everything else is questionable in a way only HP can manage

[@mycosys]

I dont see how HP can patent something people were doing from the beginning of water cooling (external rad mounting). At the very least other manufacturers can make a rad chamber that looks identical but just screws on like old school rads.

[@mirrorsandstuff]

Normally, the devil is in the detail: given that there's a lot of prior art out there, I'll wager the independent claims are fairly specific. That in turn limits the value and power of the patent. E.g. can openers exist. You have made a tomato shaped can opener. Perhaps that doesn't exist. One may be able to patent the concept of tomato shaped can openers, but that patent wouldn't affect existing or future non-vegetable shaped can openers.

[@BillyONeal]

A lot of patents are granted that don’t survive in litigation because someone found prior art like this

[@TheLostOne156]

well if Bruce Buffer can patent "Let's get ready to rumble" i dont see why

[@anlumo1]

Unless you have a six-figure sum to waste on legal proceedings, patents hold no matter their claims.

[@mirrorsandstuff]

@@BillyONeal in theory, as part of a patent being granted, there should be an action known as search where prior art of examined. Often this either results in the disclosure being withdrawn or the claims being restricted. It's also one of the reasons why there's a delay between publishing of a pending disclosure and granting - so outside parties can review and contest. Patents aren't academic papers. They can be really quite limited in terms of what they legally protect and really quite shit overall. But it sounds fancy sometimes and it does introduce a legal hammer that many might shy away from if HP's lawyers come knocking, regardless of the true legal value of any potentially granted patent.

[@chandanpuri2428]

Wow, HP can get a patent on mounting a radiator in a separate enclosure on the top of a case. Such innovative and difficult to conceive of solutions surely require protection!

[@SadMarinersFan]

It totally hasn't been done before and abandoned by nearly everyone because it has little benefit compared to the added complexity and time to assemble.

[@winjaywin]

@@SadMarinersFan the added complexity was because case designers had not found a simple way of doing it like HP has done now.

[@SadMarinersFan]

@@winjaywin what? Sticking a box on a box and putting the radiator in the 2nd box instead of the 1st. I'm sorry but that isn't worth the $200 on the low end cost that this case will probably go for stand alone, without any radiators. Not to mention the fuck off massive glass panel on the front that will choke out any air flow in the main part of the case.

[@Z4KIUS]

@@SadMarinersFan probably with whole systems emiting less heat than the card alone nowadays it wasn't feasible, but with these abominations they are pushing today it becames nearly neccessity

[@Dreddy72]

just make a case where the top half fully removes from the rest of the case. its 2 seperate things that can be connected, its not one unit like the pattent.

[@kiwimonster3647]

Weird and more difficult solution for a problem that could have been solved easier. I'm also waiting for Steve's tests and opinion on this. But preps for HP being non-proprietary

[@NTipton90]

Steve has, fortunately, already blessed us with his opinion of this in a news video 😂

[@STORMFIRE07]

@@NTipton90 link?

[@MallocFree90]

like...? Can you give us some amazing ideas?

[@少女愛-v6g]

Thighsucker 69 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJakZYCbpb6VbLc in the middle of this new review. Basically says what op said

[@0638]

Ok

[@XDSDDLord]

You forgot to mention that they are choking their 3090 with a giant front glass panel blocking the intake so it can't boost as high. I wish you tested it without the front panel like GN does to show just how stupid that is. Personally I won't buy any case that blocks airflow like that on principle. They created a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist.

[@deanthebean4818]

Yeah wtf. Why even put fans there if there's a solid object with no airflow

[@christianwatt2924]

i dont think they need those dust filters , i fucking hate the glass front trend its meant for fucking zoomers who buy their pc based on how it looks and how much it lights up

[@MeAMoose]

@@christianwatt2924 *me looking at my rainbow vomit machine* uuuuuh...

[@chazs6854]

@\f_a/ why’re you defending a terrible design? The front panel with side intake with also having air filters is providing basically nothing. Even if they are high pressured fans (serious doubt they are) it still would provide barely any air

[@ExarchGaming]

@@christianwatt2924 the only company that i've seen that does a glass front right, is Lian Li. the o11 dynamic (and dynamic evo) don't place their fans behind that glass and instead place it in the inner wall leading to the right side of the case. with the evo, it now has direct air access. but even the standard o11 dynamic tested very well under GN's battery of tests. Go figure, it's the case Roman helped design.

[@anotherSportsCarEnthusiast]

I know you guys uninstalled all the HP software, but in the "omen gaming hub", they have option to overclock ram. It did big difference in my 30L went from 3200mhz to 3467mhz.

[@tomgamez8449]

Same for me on my 40l

[@borderhopper2148]

So his review is basically flawed?

[@potatoes5829]

@@borderhopper2148 On a normal motherboard, you can oc from bios. Not sure about the HP garbage tho.

[@borderhopper2148]

@@potatoes5829 but it doesn’t matter though, right?

[@Kvicken]

@@borderhopper2148 The ram in the PC is 3733MHz sticks, yet they can only be ran at 3467MHz through HP's omen gaming hub "overclock" state. So you still lose out a bunch of power from it not running at their original speeds.

[@emlyndewar]

Cool that they patented it, so this is the only case choice with this. Will be even more awesome when they stop with this case design after a couple years. Great for consumers.

[@veduci22]

It's basically just radiator sitting on top of two (front+back) case protrusions, how is it possible to patent that...

[@barknbryce6993]

i am sure companies on aliexpress will obey this patent

[@generaxz5929]

​@@veduci22 I feel like this will hardly prohibit you from mounting a Radiator with a dust filter externally. That would be like pattening that the rediators for an AC are outside the building. Probably only this dual-chamber design isn't possible, but I'll let the legal departments of the case makers figure that out. External rediators are nothing new either way.

[@Zaptosis]

@@generaxz5929 You make a great analogy. Maybe a company can just make it look different & that will be good enough. Or they can challenge the patent in court should HP decide to sue.

[@WilliamJCraig]

They didn't obtain exclusive rights on this tech-they merely filed an application on it. There has yet to be any review of the app by an examiner (per Public PAIR), thus no one can really speculate as to whether or not this patent will be granted. In fact, I can almost assure you at least one revision, wherein the claims are restricted in their scope, will be completed prior to any patent being granted on the tech. First-action allowances are very, very rare. Especially in a crowded art like this. TLDR, there's really no need to worry about this. And if you are worried, or have done something similar in the past, you are welcome to submit that as a preissuance submission so that the examiner is forced to review it when completing a prior art review.

[@wodstalker2819]

Hp : no compromise cooling 😱 Also Hp : here, have this super restrictive glass front panel that totally dont destroy intake

[@ao_qd]

God, I know, right? I really thought we were done with solid front panels.

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

@@ao_qd Retooling is expensive,better to just use marketing.

[@GamerErman2001]

@@ao_qd Prebuilts LOVE to use glass front panels. They think more people will buy it if you can see some pretty RGB fans at the front!

[@eriksvensson2098]

@@GamerErman2001 I have a feeling this is backed up by sales numbers than demanded to the engineer.

[@BeeWhere]

What a waste, who knows maybe the see the light with a v2. I still wouldn't buy it until Gamers Nexus gave it a run on their highly controlled test suite

[@MichaelWhittmann]

I have an Omen X desktop. I bought it day one when I found out Voodoo designed the case. I've had it for years and no problems. Still running AAA titles to this day in 4k. I've never loved a PC so much. HP does make great computers when they want to, I'd have to say.

[@da_pawz]

I can say, better than Dell Alienware desktop PC lol

[@isucktrustme8672]

@@da_pawz alienware beats in price tho. Higher price i mean

[@MuitoDaora]

Good luck for HP enforcing the patent. Just because the radiator have its own air path?🤣🤣🤣

[@pottedrosepetal6906]

so, my idea would be to just flip the radiator and put the pipes on the other side lol.

[@hawkanonymous2610]

Jup, I literally started laughing then Linus started to explain it because guess how I installed my 200x400 radiator on my case years ago lol. Yeah, mount the radiator outside is truely worthy of its very own patent.

[@mycosys]

Yep, people have been doing this for 20 years in PCs, a lot longer in other industries. I dont see how its a valid patent, tho they may have patented some design quirk, not the concept

[@0638]

Hi linus tech tips

[@oOWaschBaerOo]

my take.. you cant just patent something that has been done a million times already by people and companies before .. aka external radiator .. which this clearly is

[@Black3ternity]

Funny how this case gave me flashbacks to the era of 2006 where you could buy seperate case-addons for watercooling or Chiller-Units that went below or on top of your case to do exactly what HP now has patented...

[@ttomkins4867]

There also has been cases with a separate cooling chamber for your radiator(s). Difference being they pulled & exhausted from the sides.

[@CordovanSplotchVT]

That should still be doable without getting into legal trouble since a separate external casing for a radiator isn't what they patented, they patented having it as an integrated part of the PC case. The main problem with the separate radiator casing is that it requires a bit of DIY work with most cases to let you pass the tubing out through the PC case.

[@empath69]

@@ttomkins4867 *really?* Ouch, that would actually constitute 'Prior Art' for HP's application for patent of "Computing Devices With Integrated And Isolated Liquid Cooling" which is pretty BROAD, legally-speaking. Even the "Abstract" on the patent application shown at 2:20 isn't sufficiently distinct in its description to NOT include what YOU describe - they only describe the airgap between the cooling compartment and computing compartment being "defined by the external surfaces of the housing"...unless what you describe merely had an internal 'bulkhead' separating the cooler from the mobo etc, it'd be Prior Art, and proof that HP did NOT come up with the idea themselves.

[@nikanj]

I suspect these decisions were very much intentional. By enforcing power limit and not enabling XMP they probably reduced the annual failure rate a tiny bit. And people buying these systems will probably not notice.

[@austinverlinden2236]

Could be changed in later bios updates.

[@touness69]

Would enabling xmp increase failures as much as the performance boost would not be worth ?

[@mcknightujc]

@@touness69 no. Not if you havr a reliable kit

[@CST1992]

@@mcknightujc That's the thing - HP doesn't have RAM kits on par with gaming modules we can buy on the market.

[@JohnDoe-qc3bo]

I thought a fatal flaw would be something that was failing in a lot of these really. It is still a flaw, just a disappointing one. It is one reason I like to build my own PC even though the god damned miners and scalpers are making it really hard to do that.

[@desther7975]

Yep. Better to go with a good iGPU at this point. You may not have the fastest, smoothest, prettiest gaming experience, but it comes cheap and beats giving money to crooks.

[@madtech5153]

@@desther7975 and yet AMD didn't give it to us the latest RDNA2 igpu. only available for now in laptops and the upcoming steamdeck. still disappointing

[@Xfade81]

It is a fatal flaw in a lot of these. Alot of prebuilts don't have xmp enabled. The biggest flaw with this one is the locked bios.

[@ShowXTech]

@Mad Tech From what I know RDNA2 makes only sense with DDDR5 so you have to wait a bit for the next Desktop Ryzen, hopefully named 7000

[@madtech5153]

@@ShowXTech no, unless they restrict it to use only DDR5, the gap between ddr4 and early ddr5 is still small. even without ddr5, its also still a better igpu than vega, 1.5x-2x better.

[@thexgamer8240]

HP: *This is the PC with the best cooler right now.* Linus: *We’ll see about that, just like you’ll see our sponsors.*

[@arnox4554]

Doesn't have any 5.25'' bays. Don't care. And by the way, before anyone says, "Optical media is outdated!", you can use the bays for a LOT more than just an optical drive reader.

[@jacob_997]

fr he always has a sponsor

[@mycosys]

This is something people have been doing since the early days of water cooling, i dont see how it is possibly patentable.

[@SirAlph4]

@@arnox4554 and for what

[@0638]

Yes

[@tazamemaru159]

If anyone is wondering, the ram speed problem has been fixed as far as I can tell. In the omen gaming hub you can go into the overclocking tab and on the top right you can switch from your cpu to ram. There you can „overclock“ your ram to 3733 without any problems.

[@HavadaBulut55]

maybe removing all pre installed oem software is not realy the best thing to do, like suggested in the video?

[@yanni-duff]

@@HavadaBulut55 it is the best thing to do, 99% of it is useless junk. They obviously left the omen hub in.

[@jonpayne6836]

I bought the 45L with 16GB ram and later upgraded with a kingston's fury beast but cannot overclock OR control RGB on those ones through omen gaming hub, also all my RGB is now acting sporadically...i cant turn it on as we speak and it pisses me off

[@anthonymagana8384]

@@jonpayne6836 Even though it kinda sucks I would recommend you just upgrade the HyperX RAM it comes with. I have a 30L with a R7 5800X, 3070ti and 16gb of 3200mhz DDR4. Overclocking the ram to 3700mhz definitely helped but I am going to order two more 8gb sticks to make 32gb and to add a more full look to the RAM slots.

[@Carmisci]

I'd like to see what would happen if you took the prebuilt and just replaced all the components with identical components (replacing the motherboard with a different one in the process) and seeing if the performance is similar

[@bradley3549]

Really all you would need is a new motherboard.

[@Fay7666]

Well that's why they'll sell the case separately (I hope)

[@redrangerJ]

I'd love to see a custom loop in here as well and see if it's feasible for that. Might be a cool use case for it.

[@gregkelly2145]

I'm surprised they didn't do that. Seems kind of an obvious way to see how well the Cryo Chamber really works.

[@st1ngplays]

@@Fay7666 2:23 has your answer

[@BGraves]

Wait, you're telling me that liquid cool has always share the same space with the case?! Not sure how they managed to get a patent for the most obvious uninventive design choice.

[@0638]

Ji

[@mycosys]

getting it doesnt mean its valid - people have been doing this since the beginning of water cooling. It also may be for some specific quirk.

[@TheLostOne156]

hmm they made the case design that they put RnD into. and they are planning to mass produce the case.

[@Joh_Lam]

In fact, since I started with custom water cooling I've always been looking for cases with separate chambers, which always existed. Pretty obvious as you say. Ended up working with external Mo-Ra Radiator, so the whole room is my cooling chamber and no fan at all spinning in my case anymore.

[@dero949]

It isnt patented. Their patent application has just been published. That isn't the same as a being patented and gives them absolutely no rights until it is actually looked at by a patent examiner and then allowed.

[@RicardoFlotte]

Hi Linus, just to let you know HP already released a BIOS update back in february (F.12) that let's you enable XMP profile for the RAM or a custom profile

[@JohnsonnPlays]

does this fix their issue?

[@borderhopper2148]

Does this fix the issue?

[@borderhopper2148]

@@JohnsonnPlays idk does it?

[@JohnsonnPlays]

@@borderhopper2148 idk does it?

[@HarmonicVector]

@@JohnsonnPlays It fixes one issue, which was them throttling their 3200MHz RAM. But their Power delivery on the CPU is still a problem.

[@kowalskidiazdegeras9190]

So... the front, solid panel is such an obstruction to airflow that the vacuum made by the fans makes the temperature drop by 1°C

[@4skintim962]

its not a bug, its a feature

[@0638]

ok

[@purplemonkeyelephant]

@@4skintim962 Limiting intake air but having it be cooler is like putting out a house fire using a glass of ice water instead of a fire hose

[@kowalskidiazdegeras9190]

@@purplemonkeyelephant it's not even that: the drop in temperature would only happen in the space between the fans and the front panel. Once the air has passed the fans, it regains the current air pressure and temperature (technically it would be even hotter, but in this case the difference is negligeable)

[@alanhobson9121]

I really hate the trend of some manufacturers putting fans in the front of the case and then sealing them behind a glass panel. What a freaking waste. Just put some RGB ring lights behind the glass if that's the look you want. It would have the same esthetic effect, cost less, be quieter, and use less power.

[@Jack32X]

really hope it is coming out as a separate case, even with its odd OEM unpainted bits, it's a classy looking case

[@therealdemen247]

2:21 ;)

[@bdr32965]

Actually you can override the kneecapping of the memory speed within the Omen Gaming Hub and set it to the full 3733 Mhz instead of using it at 3200 Mhz

[@Kcdeanoo]

how

[@JohnSmith-hr8xv]

@Kcdeanoo It's jut right there in the Omen Hub were you able to find it?

[@Blaze6108]

Did... did they really get a patent on the concept of putting a radiator on the outside of the case? How braindead can the patent office be?

[@mycosys]

They used to be about the most advanced company in computing believe it or not. Before all of us were born XD

[@LlamaCraft]

hewlett packard and dell used to be powerhouses until they werent

[@Hietakissa]

I doubt the patent is of the concept itself

[@awesomestuff9715]

i mean, the patents office dont care if the patents make sense or not, also it's this specific design of putting it like an inch or 2 above the case like that, and not just simply having a rad outside the case

[@Josh-cw8by]

I mean they used to be on the outside of the case... I still use my Coolermaster case that has loop holes for an exterior radiator. HP just sealed the deal.

[@Vatharian]

Mayne, many years ago I had Koolance's external top-of-the-case radiator, which was exactly this. They even sold a case which had raised mounting slot for it and cover for tubing. How the hell HP patented it?

[@chrisw1462]

With airflow design being just wide open in scope for decades, I can't imagine someone not finding Prior Art on this kind of cooling to invalidate their patent. Hell, a turbo aftercooler is probably close enough.

[@binurakulasinghe308]

Aren't patents granted AFTER the patent office finds there were no relevant prior art? I'd have thought the window for that would be over if they already have a patent.

[@darkpraxis]

@@binurakulasinghe308 You greatly overestimate the scope of what the patent office can does when granting patents. They get shit wrong all the time and patent owners and patent "violators" have to initiate legal actions to either protect their patent or invalidate it.

[@squidwardo7074]

@@darkpraxis just like the whole rest of the government, they only know what you tell them

[@marcbusby3625]

To me the omen looks like an attempt to go back to the days of voodoo pc, who where known at the time for making high end custom desktops before being purchased and intergrated into hp much like alienware was to dell. The omen was one of their full size desktop pc's when voodoo pc was a thing

[@risingstar1309]

Interesting history. Cool that you shared that.

[@Clavichordist]

Thanks for that info. I wondered what happened to Voodoo.

[@tylerpals7891]

It would have been cool if you tested it with a different motherboard bios and see how far this design really improves things.

[@Emerald.Islands]

The standalone case for the 45L Omen has officially been launched! As Linus showed interest for it I think maybe it could be redeemed with a new episode!

[@e3super2]

They go through all this trouble to separate the radiator, then they put a glass panel over the front intakes. Why couldn't it be mesh front so the GPU is getting nice airflow, too?

[@tahsin28]

Doesn't matter bro, air flows just fine.

[@skroozscrungus6738]

@@tahsin28 no, it really doesn't. non mesh panel fronts are unacceptable.

[@HUSTLER1346]

isn’t there a gap in front where the glass is tho?

[@tiladx]

@@HUSTLER1346 Air would come through the side gap (which also is mesh-like and will easily get clogged with dust) and immediately have to turn 90 degrees, which slows down the airflow immensely. The gap also only appears to be about 10-15mm, when it should be at least 25-30 to properly work.

[@carsonschreiber]

Probs so the system sounds quieter. Even if with the mesh front panel would have better thermals when the system is noise-normalized, it’s maybe just safer for HP to put a glass panel. Also potentially less people complaining about coil whine. And some people prefer the look. My guesses anyway

[@HUSTLER1346]

i think i’m just going to buy the case, and build my own. can’t trust that motherboard and i really like the cryo cooling. it even looks cool, people say it’s over engineered but i like how roomy it make the inside

[@noelcovarrubias7490]

@Tech & Gaming Keyword "looks".

[@stayed9694]

motherboard is terrible.

[@kyleholt7112]

Same bro but with so much demand of the case its gonna be like $400 lmao

[@brucesummers7448]

I bought the HP Omen 45L with the RTX 4090 graphics card in December of 2023. Upon opening the case to add in a 10GB Ethernet card and a Firewire card I found that with the mini-ATX motherboard there were no slots available. I shipped the computer back to HP. Lenovo Legion 7i does allow for adding a 16-lane PCIe card along with a 4-lane card. The Legion also has a 2.5GB Ethernet port which is considerably better than the 1GB Ethernet port provided on the HP 45L computer. Great job on the case design but a very poor job on the motherboard design by the HP product engineers.

[@sterbebett]

Man, I can't wait for them to finish the lab and see this sort of conclusions on MANY products on the market clamming _Fastest/coolest/quietest/most efficient_

[@zackmatey1793]

You're better off to watch Gamers Nexus. They've reviewed many such prebuilts in the past and shown their myriad of issues.

[@sterbebett]

@@zackmatey1793 That's true

[@byroncassidy6878]

Im just getting into the pc gaming scene and your videos have been sooo helpful. Thank you and please keep up the great vids 👍

[@SudheeraPalihakkara]

That’s how you get hooked to LTT 😂

[@zzaynz7146]

You’re in for the best ride of your life

[@calebstuhldreier3099]

Bro same, I’ve just gotten into it and I’ve been watching his videos nonstop. He’s been extremely helpful and all around love the videos. I learn new things everyday

[@0638]

Hi linus tech tips

[@Splarkszter]

Nice to have fresh meat here

[@severgun]

1) front glass reduce airflow. 2) top rad have no filter on intake side 3) In some cases you can mix preheated air with fresh by adding intake coolers from bottom or side (lian li, corsair)

[@Daiwek]

amazing graph at 10:13 LMG great job i love the botched x axis ironic the VO is "stacked the deck in their favor"

[@MccElite]

They noticed it afterwards and have the correct graph

[@gromett]

Separate water cooling was something I was doing well over a decade ago with a Zalman Reserator 2. However, I do like the idea of the separate chamber up top. I am now rejigging my plans for a custom case I am building myself.

[@dougle03]

I'm willing to bet the design is not original, but HP have deep pockets to apply for the patent...

[@builderbrothersgames]

9:24 there’s a way in omen gaming hub to over clock the ram

[@eric-.]

there's a clear reason why HP did this - by limiting the power draw, this PC will not overheat. That, in itself, is a huge plus for HP, who have had chronic overheating problems for 20 years. The end result will be HP will have less warranty replacements to cover. Win for HP with fewer customer returns, win for customer for having a more stable, longer lasting computer. In the real world, 15% in cinebench should NOT be a deal breaker. Ok, now I have to go get some mouthwash to deal with this disgusting aftertaste of having to say something good about HP. 🤮

[@nepderp8343]

"HP's patent means no one can do this" China : Hold my BING CHILLING

[@lolpl0000]

BING CHILLING I LOVE THIS ICR CREAM BING CHILLING

[@anxiousearth680]

6:30 I don't quite understand what this means. "Hp routes CPU air off to the side and the GPU air out the back" Isn't the side panel non perforated glass? And the other side would be blocked by the motherboard itself.

[@josesantos672]

Having used a fog machine for similar purposes professionally for an HVAC project, I'd caution doing so excessively with PC's and especially ones you want to continue using later. They can leave behind some gnarly, sticky glycol or glycerin-based residue. Definitely looks cool though!

[@apexlegendsseniorcitizen2166]

You can overclock the Ram now in the omen gaming hub. Big W. Getting my first gaming PC soon. Omen45L i712900k / 3080ti.

[@demetriusholloway9599]

I just bought the same one today but it's i9-12900K . It will be my first as well. I cannot wait!

[@izenbice]

Hows your PC been? Just purchased my 45L but with a 3080, super stoked for it to arrive!

[@apexlegendsseniorcitizen2166]

@@izenbice It's been really good to me.

[@darkdoe1]

Would be interesting to see you guys strip out the supplied parts and build a custom system in that case to see what you can get

[@andiders]

My CaseLabs STH10, basically has this. Two separate chambers, which pulls air in and out independent from the air in the main chamber.

[@JohannJVR]

Greatest case manufacturer our world has ever had the priviledge of knowing!

[@tvw4951]

Same with my SMH10 with the pedestals, granted its sitting in my attic but I'll never let go of that case. Its in the works for a 'retro' SR-2 EVGA build. **Edit I mean M10 w/ pedestal addons (both top extended and bottom)

[@TyphoonNLD]

my Silverstone TJ-11 has something like this as well

[@Catsrules1]

Holly crap you could fit a child in that case lol

[@efeyzee]

HP's patent includes an air gap between the two chambers, making it distinct as far as I can tell. This also means that as long as there is no air gap, other case manufacturers can keep doing this

[@talhahtaco2035]

Of course, they make something cool, and make it patented, what else was I supposed to expect

[@ZarkNasir]

That's how they will make money

[@talhahtaco2035]

@@ZarkNasir yeah I understand but it's just shitty of them, instead of just relying on a good product they have to stop others from making better products to make money

[@Lo33y_]

Unfortunately it's law that needs to be in place. Would screw over little guys if it wasnt.

[@Bijoubix]

It's an Omen, patent it!

[@PrimeDonut_]

So if you design something that is better than the competition you wouldn't want to protect yourself? They can license the design to other manufacturers

[@tsterling5276]

Great Video and I love that you always look "behind" the cover! Maybe one add: if you buy the Ryzen version you can use the Ryzon Master to change the Memory speed. With Intel you are absolutely right: no way to change it easily

[@falkjensen8629]

Hey Linus, have you noticed you can switch the RAM to 3733 HZ inside the Omen Gaming HUB? Just go to Overclocking and on the right there is a switch between CPU and memory overclocking.

[@angeloprado3056]

It looks like he went through the bios and forgot to check the Omen Gaming HUB 😅 Would be nice to get a feedback on it, the RAM speed was a major withdraw as he mentioned.

[@spencerz2]

I have an hp omen 30L and I will say you can get the ram speed to go to 3733hz but the timings will be much worse than they are supposed to be. It doesn't use XMP timings, it uses JEDEC. Even at standard speeds of 3200hz it uses cl19 or cl22 speeds instead of cl16 its rated for.

[@ryanhenak]

He could have deleted it right off the bat.

[@rip1597]

Hey very urgent. Can you do this on Non-HP Ram and is this in all Omens? (someone says their 25L does not have this option!) Urgent. Very Urgent.

[@Ther0]

Just came here to point out that the Sony VAIO VGC-RA820G from 2005 basically did the same thing but with heatpipes. It was quite remarkable

[@Niko-op3oz]

Wow

[@ninetenduh]

Would love to see a test where the case uses actually decent components against a standard case.

[@Sectric]

ya

[@steakmaster9026]

so in order to boost the ram in this system you need to access the omen gaming hub, go to desktop, and click overclocking, there you can boost the ram

[@borderhopper2148]

His review is flawed then

[@percy3815]

Omen gaming hub can (on some models) help you ‘overclock’ (read: set to actual operating frequencies) your ram… In many cases it can’t, so I ended up using Ryzen master to manually OC my ram and cpu! The uefi settings with HP Omens are an absolute disgrace

[@alphacompton]

I'm glad to see some good progress on the prebuilt front even if it's still not ideal. I'm excited for the case. I'll consider it for a future build.

[@NarenDrives]

You can enable XMP in the HP Omen app instead of going into BIOS

[@2APatriot]

I bought a case years ago that had a separate radiator zone but it was on the side not top. HP just did what others have in a different spot and patented it.

[@qwertyuiopasdf160]

HP In future: Um YeA wE MaDe a rAM WitH a CoOl DEsigN aNd uM yEa wE aRe GoNNa pAteNT It

[@circuschris2880]

Nice writing Anthony, HP-ness choking it up gave me a good laugh.

[@biscuits1943]

I’ve had the 30L for over a year now love everything about…once you swap all the prebuilt parts out, and I do mean all of them. But the case is great.

[@samgray49]

I might buy this case when it's available, my Rosewill Challenger is a fantastic case for cooling (as in 75 degrees c for Crysis 2 maxed out) but the case has horrid cable management and I wouldn't care that I will need to externally house my internal blue-ray player.

[@flow3631]

now i have an omen 30l with rtc 3080 and i7 10700k, the case and the aio fan are fantastic. I just changed the 80mm backfan and added another 120 fan

[@helloyellow4773]

Same i got it this year after 4 months waiting i love it 😍 the only way to get an rtx 3080 for the normal price (eu)

[@BaconNBeer]

Since you can buy the case by itself does that mean it will take standard mother boards? It would be nice to get away from properity mother boards.

[@chrischaf]

I could swear, a while back, that everyone was writing articles and making videos saying that higher ram speed didn't really make that big of a difference when it came to gaming...

[@omegapirate6356]

I was looking at the Omen before deciding to just upgrade everything instead of the GPU because I wasn't sure if the BIOS was on par with aftermarket motherboards. Thanks for validating that for me.

[@luhmenace1970]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3jLk5SMgJV5fa8....

[@_____alyptic]

I wonder if it's possible to replace the UEFI/bios itself, I mean there are f-OSS firmware implementations out there now 🤔

[@goncalo33]

6:42 I can see "It's freakin' fantastic! Go buy one now!" appear on their website as a review anytime soon. :)

[@CoolJosh3k]

I think they went extreme on stability, while trying to still appear like they are actually using the performance they marketed.

[@firefly9838]

Some of us like stable and don't need to run the entire matrix on our PC😒

[@CoolJosh3k]

@@firefly9838 I agree. Depending on what you do, stability and reliability can be very important. With more people working from home these days, I expect the desire for stability is more common.

[@tomgamez8449]

I've had the 40l with 5800x and 3080 since February and it's never missed a beat really powerful also doesn't feel like they limit performance at all cpu typically draws 112w max load and GPU 310w

[@olbaze]

10:13, 10:16: Charts don't start from 0%, making the differences look much bigger than they are. First chart is a 1% difference that looks like a 20% difference, the second chart is a 10% difference that looks like a 200% difference. Bad graphs, literally stuff you see in "how to lie with statistics" during "intro to statistics".

[@dgw4049]

When HP wants to build a nice computer... they can totally do it. They also regularly choose to use standardized parts.

[@ohmahrie]

For anyone looking at these, HP gaming hub recently got an update that lets you OC your ram, so the hyperXs can now officially hit that 3733 mhz

[@touness69]

Are you seeing any boost in performance since then ? What about temps?

[@ohmahrie]

@@touness69 performance is amazing, and temps also amazing. The cryo chamber isn’t a gimmick, it really helps. It’s also SUPER quiet compared to my last computer.

[@touness69]

@@ohmahrie could you provide R23 score ? Timespy ?

[@xXVenezuelaXx]

8:20 HP released an update to the BIOS you can know overclock the RAM.

[@Foxwolf9Tails]

I would also go out on a limb and ask the same question Steve from Gamers Nexus would ask - why does HP think, in 2022, that its still necessary to make a case with a solid glass front and only small side intake ports when a mesh front would work just as well or better?

[@jermwerty]

Aesthetics bruh! /stupid hp

[@aule10]

I hope that case will be available for itself. Because i honestly think this is the way forward to be able to cool both powerhungry components CPU and GPU.

[@burtmacklin6443]

Recently got a Dell Inspiron 16 laptop, it came with outdated firmware and the graphics settings were defaulted to Intels UHD instead of the RTX... I don't think the average consumer would have found out about the latter and if it weren't for a dodgy touchpad I wouldn't have found out about the prior. Things like this really make me question these companies.

[@justanirishtayto5755]

I’d love to see you guys do a hp 30l. Got one recently and it’s been doing really well so far, but would love to see you guys find it’s shortcomings

[@helloyellow4773]

I got one and im happy with it :) Best prebuild for a good valv in eu => Cost 80€ more than the normal priceses 😇

[@justanirishtayto5755]

@@helloyellow4773 it’s really good so far for me too! However, I’d love to them do a tear down and maybe learn something more about the prebuilt I got

[@helloyellow4773]

@@justanirishtayto5755 Very good video idea maybe tssting all variants of cases from hp :) Would be very interesting! 😊

[@Ghandjaloodah]

Same. Got one too. Performance is really good. Just worried about thermals and fan noise. Sounds like a yet taking off. Also not being able to change settings in bios is lame. Debating if I should upgrade to the 45 L for better thermals airflow, Get a noctua 15 something to replace current CPU cooler. Or buy components and make own build. Which would be at least 800,- more then what I paid now.

[@Capt_Lucy]

Can't believe the lack of options in UEFI, but let me guess, they also locked the sata mode into RST with no option to change it so you can't install Linux. That's how my omen laptop is. It sucks because I was wanting to make the switch recently. I'll definitely be checking for that option with my next purchase.

[@TheRandomASDF]

Thank you for your honest opinion. At least everything is upgradable/fixable unlike many other prebuilds 😬 I‘m happy with mine so far 😬

[@nehemiasaquino9080]

Thinking of buying it myself let me know if your satisfaction holds

[@TheRandomASDF]

@@nehemiasaquino9080 Still holds up 👍 But I think there are some differences in models. For example, my 2nd ssd slot was beneath my gpu, contrary to some guides on youtube and it required a heatsink (ssd beneath gpu, makes sense). Otherwhise it seems really accessible and upgradable for the future, except for the newest generation of ram, for mine at least. But that depends on the motherboard, so choosing whats in your pc (gpu, cpu, etc. is most important). One thing I have to mention is that you have to be somewhat knowledgeable about softwares or at least not be afraid to tweak it. The omen gaming hub for example, has an unnecessary overlay that you can disable. It requires some guides and knowledge of where and what to look for. But its not too difficult. As you have to run the omen gaming hub and either the amd or nvidia softwares it can also be somewhat tricky to understand what you need to disable, what is needed and what is just unnecessary. Hope I could help 👍

[@BOBs_bricks]

Interesting case but I am sure there has been something similar to this years ago. I was working on a concept dustless case and came across something like this , still would love to build it but the watercooling loop I need is out of my reach :-(

[@phenomanII]

Get yourself an EK Leak Tester and look for good deals on used parts. The leak tester allows you to take apart the blocks, clean them out completely, assemble them AND test them afterwards to make sure they won't leak. You can even test parts you can't take apart, like radiators. It will save you tons of money, there's deals on used hardware out there and even a 10 year old D5 pump will work just fine for years. Nevermind old and beat up radiators that still don't have any leaks, just some dents, bent fins and scratches. I'm only saying this because I was also waiting to build a dustless case (though more just to seal in the coil whine). Now that I have it, I couldn't imagine having any other setup.

[@empath69]

gee, you might wanna make copies of any documentation of that and send them to the US Patent Office, because that would constitute "Prior Art" and *invalidate any patent HP would be applying for* When can a patent be declared invalid? *If one can prove that the invention was known or used by others in the U.S.* or patented or described in a publication in any country before the invention thereof by the applicant, the patent is invalid. Heck, even if you got the idea from *a description in a magazine article* that's 'reasonable doubt' that HP's named applicants came up with the idea independently...

[@BOBs_bricks]

@@empath69 I am not sure if I prior sketch on a piece of paper from 5 years ago with no date on it will affect their patent as I have no evidence to prove it other than my word.my idea was to create a seperate cooling chamber . The idea was similar to this but they made it work while mine was all theory with no actual design just a sketch . Maybe some one found my sketch and shared it with them .

[@ukoo]

is this a good starter pc anyways? i know i can’t build anything, so this is my best option.

[@thelukygamer17]

To fix the bios problem wouldn’t be enough to change the mother board? I’d still do it because the original one is terrible to look at (I’d go for an asus one) but if it also fixes that problem it’s even better

[@MistaKilla361]

There is definitely an option to activate XMP in the Bios, atleast there is now. A new video relooking at this PC in 2023/2024 would be great because they really did a lot of work in the UI and performance tuning.

[@RandySpeer]

That's great to hear as I just ordered the 4090 version and these videos were starting to scare me.

[@Keyser-Soze08]

@@RandySpeer io ho il 13700k 4090 .. ragazzi sono italiano e non so l inglese.. comunque l unica cosa da fare e cambiare la scheda madre. e il pc e una bomba e non sale mai a 60 gradi in gaming. la 4090 non riscalada mai..

[@abgnarkill904]

2 years later…. Have they made any changes to fix these issues ?

[@luke2168]

@@abgnarkill904 I am now getting 1200w power

[@vxxed8668]

@5:31 so I see this airflow pattern and I think to myself, why haven't gaming focused desktops adopted the plastic airflow shrouds that Dell workstations utilize? The Dell Precision T#### series desktop cases usually have dedicated flow to CPU, GPU, and ram separately.

[@crushrevczar]

I’ve bought two decent priced Dell XPS in the past that were near top of the line spec but not great Gaming PCs. Both of them suffered with cheap motherboards that couldn’t be overclocked. They’re both still good computers, it gave me the time to buy and build my own Gaming PC.

[@imglidinhere]

HP limited the TDP limit to 210w instead of the impossible-to-cool 241w that Intel specifies. If it was like... a 125w limit, then yeah that's not okay, given that's almost halving the power limits... but this is completely fair. Hell, this is what most 12900k owners do. They undervolt and lower power draw, since overclocking does jack shit these days BECAUSE the CPUs auto-OC as needed to maximize performance. The memory problem is unacceptable though. Especially when you equip a machine of this caliber with high-end memory... only to run it at severely gimped frequencies. Makes no sense.

[@touness69]

You seem to understand what the problème is, english is not my first language, is the XMP fail fixable ? What about a RAM Swap ?

[@noway9880]

@@touness69 XMP needs to be unlocked by HP-yes this is fixable, but it would require a BIOS update. You could use jedec-specc'd ram..and it would run at up to 3200 (because that's the highest standard, anything over 3200 is an overclock) but that would be a waste of memory modules that can run higher. HP limiting the boost tho..idk. base is 125, isn't it? the official intel spec is that it can boost at UP to 241w-indefinitly! keep in mind-this is a desktop! i understand limiting it on laptops but on a desktop??? if intel can cool it, there's no reason HP can't except for cost cutting. Dell is doing this with this CPU too. they're limiting longterm to 160w. it only boosts to 200+ for the first minute. Odds are at Intels spec-this ran too hot. Raising power limits isn't something you'd be able to do..unless HP became super consumer friendly and their next BIOS update unlocked advanced settings.

[@Nates5212]

The Omen Gaming Hub software CAN enable XMP, check the Tuning section

[@paulbrooks4395]

A little shaving on cost saving ends up with bigger performance hits. However, it’s possible that the components HP sourced were quite a bit cheaper and more available than what LTT had. The final price difference could have been disproportionate depending. Remember that they compete with other builders and DIYers to hit price points. I hope they do make better models in the future, but given the shortages, it may be a while until we see it.

[@ZeronicMatrix]

I really want to see GN Steve to tear this apart.

[@eb1900]

I wonder, does this mean that HP’s conservative power delivery inadvertently helped their customers avoid the 13th and 14th gen intel issues ?

[@unsanitizedclanker1042]

Will this computer be enough to run Minecraft mod packs?

[@UsernetOhio]

Bro i just got this pc and while doing a driver update the display just went gray and never went back to normal and i had to return it, it was a faulty gpu, womp womp, build quality 10/10, pc performance 10/10, weight 2/10.

[@carlo1132]

HP trumps Alienware for sure. My home built HP Omen X is still running strong, love the case enough to have a spare new one in the box for a future build.

[@CherryKirktown]

For this system, you know from working with similar components that more is available. The answer is that they lock you out by limiting the bios configurations. HP has almost always underrated products by 10 to 25%. This was a strategy that they use to help ensure reliability. There has always been performance left on the floor for products as diverse as calculators to main frame computer systems. Speed is not the only characteristic that has been throttled. The same applies to operating environmental conditions to power utilization. Build the device to a higher level than that stated by marketing for better reliability numbers.

[@randomcsorely]

This pc is a beast. Never runs hot and games looks beautiful and run great . Don't let him dissuade you for buying this

[@dyrecords27]

hi linus one of these days can u try to add a entry level graphics card into a beelink mini computer preferably the sei series

[@SaxaphoneMan42]

Kinda hope they make the case available, I would bet they would sell more cases than prebuilts

[@mycosys]

Other manufacturers will make similar - the idea of an external rad has been round since the beginning of water cooling, its not patentable.

[@Bigdog1787]

If they make it available hope it's with mesh front🧐

[@Art_Matters]

Great recommendation to remove the HP bloatware, but for people who are not technically savy showing someone dragging the desktop icon to the recycle bin would likely lead them to thinking that is how to remove it. (Assuming a fair -portion- of pre-built buyers are not well enough experienced) Would love to see a switch to showing the uninstall in this case in the future.

[@aaronthomas6155]

If you're watching this channel, you should know how to uninstall software properly.... It's been pretty much the same process for the last 25 years...

[@haleypotter417]

Hope we get a follow up to this!

[@korkutsert498]

I am really sad that they patented it. It would have been great to see what other case manufacturers would do with this type of design.

[@blackmamba___]

Depends on which other countries the patent is secured in. U.S patents are only for U.S and its territories. HP would have to apply and be granted a patent in every country for it to be fully protected from someone else doing it and even that doesn't stop the small moms and pop shops.