The Finnish Mosin Dilemma: What is 7.62x53r?

[@ShutUpBubi]

My Finnish friends have access to 53r like no tomorrow, I envy it! Thankfully though my M28 has a 'D' stamped barrel so 54r runs just fine :)

[@WhataGunnR]

My Finnish M28 has a 53r chamber with a nearly mint condition bore. I’ve only ever fired it 3 times and it did not like commercial 54r ammo at all.

[@14metallicafreak]

I also have an M28 and my experience with it was rough. It actually pulled the case off the projectile when it was chambered in the rifle.

[@uunicorni]

That makes sense in M28-30s have tighter chamber and bore than say Russian Mosins or Finnish army M39 rifles. M28 and the updates like the legendar M28-30 (The rifle that Simo Häyhä used) were actually civil guard rifles and not Finnish army rifles that were build with accuracy in mind for Lapua D46 bullet. Those were used by the civil guardsmen while serving and some of them were modified for the larger Russian 7,62x54R bullets and stamped with capital D in the barrel to avoid higher pressures and the issues that you had.

[@uunicorni]

@@sabermouad9750 typically Finnish Mosins are accurate. 9 hole reviews did their accuracy test on m39 and the results speak for themself.

[@ShutUpBubi]

Finnish mosins don't like light ball ammo to begin with which I wouldn't be surprised is what you were shooting through it.

[@winged_destro]

Man the way you’re sitting the distance between you and the table makes you look so small compared to the gun 💀

[@MarshalZhukov]

I should have known! No way you weren't going to mention the Austrian 8x50R conversions. Happened to have one, once upon a time. Been a while. Very interesting rifles for sure. Got a 6 year old vid on my channel of it. Never could get a hold of a 8x50R round to put in it but all the forum discussion and our resident subject matter expert on the topic of Austrian conversions was satisfied it was a conversion. Had all the tell tale signs there mark on the stock and the rear sight numbers inlaid with gold paint. Anyways, always an interesting topic the 7.62x53R. Never had any issue with x54R out of any of the Mosins I had back in the heyday of collecting. Lots of new channels all these years later!

[@firestorm8471]

Quick note... If you take a piece of 00 buckshot and tap it through the barrel with a wooden dowel,. You can then get a proper measure of your bore diameter with calipers measuring the land/groove impressions in the ball. I would then run a copper brush through your bore before shooting.

[@rjy1446]

Thank you for this amazing library of videos. I’ve learned so much from your channel!

[@j.b.3502]

I never even thought about it. I got some Finnish mosins because they had the cheapest original 1891s and ran maybe a few hundred rounds of standard commercial x54r ammo and the accuracy was great. never realized they had different barrels/ammo.

[@rawdognasty666]

great video sam I learned a shit ton. love the history and didn't know mossin went back as far as it does. keep it up dude

[@klimovichrusland]

Very good explanation! Thank you very much!!!

[@mcn2050]

Thank you, the longer i watched the more interesting you got,. Alot of great information. Again Thanks, Big Sam,.

[@maverickpaladin4155]

You really need to slug the barrels of your Finn Mosins - all of them - to see what's what. The M91, M91/30, M30, and M39 are likely to be in 54r, whereas the M91/24, M27, M28, M28/30, and other M28 variants are likely to be in 53r. You can use a .33" lead fishing weight and a cleaning rod to check the bore of each individual rifle. I've owned (3) M28/76 rifles which are in 53r. You can tell because when you chamber a round and extract it, you'll see rifling marks on the bullet jacket. I have a non-D marked M39 which is in 53r. Firing 54r through it will result in extremely sticky bolt and pressure signs on the brass because of the lack of rifling lead (gap between the bullet jacket surface and the start of the rifling) and the slightly larger bullet diameter.

[@justacentrist4147]

I recently found 6 rounds of 7.62x53r finnish surpluss (1960s production) that was imported into canada back in the 1980s. Vary torn as to whether i should hold onto it or shoot a couple of groups and see how they shoot

[@johnmaslack8628]

The 8x50 used essentially bore riding bullet with only the base of the bullet being oversize...The pressure probably wouldn't be excessive, however to shoot a .323 bullet that is this diameter it's full length might increase the pressure a bit...They also shortened and rechambered to 30-06 and Poland refurbed to 8x57...

[@Strelnikov10]

My 1898 Finn Izhevsk looks exactly like that rifle. The wood and metal patina is identical. Beautiful.

[@wildweasel8564]

I have a Sako M-39 (non-D) dated 1943, with strong but dark rifling. I reloaded 10 rounds each using Hornady .308 and .312 150gr SP bullets under equal charges on IMR4350. The .312 bullets shot significantly better than the .308 bullets at 100M and beyond. Presently Lapua is the only source of 7.62x53R brass I am aware of but $2+ per case is a bit much for my budget and use instead Prvi Partizan (PPU) brass stamped 7.62x54R at less than half the cost. With full power loads this gun is a beast!

[@slowhand1198]

Good point that each Mosin can be different. I've got a 1944 M39 with a Sako barrel that slugs out at .312.

[@robber1231]

Great info as always Big Sam!

[@VCBird6]

Austro-Hungarian Bubba were some words I never thought I'd string together until today 😂

[@cullenjohn1737]

Hello! Thanks for your video. Thanks much, big mosin sam!

[@bdub2957]

Great video big Sam!

[@ukriroutalempi5124]

Luckily here Finland you can buy 53r from stores.

[@ol1guy994]

Thanks. Great info

[@firestorm8471]

What about the stories of the Finns taking over sized bores and chrome lining them to reduce the diameter ? I actually have an M27 with a heavy barrel , octagon receiver and a chrome lined bore. Looks great, shoots great. Just odd to me with the chrome.

[@neuzdost1939]

You putting out great content. Thank you

[@jopeteus]

You pronounced "Tikkakoski" surprisingly well!

[@Jay-ln1co]

It's crazy many of the rifles were later converted into the 7.62 Tkiv 85 sniper rifles still in service. So, as many of the Finnish rifles were based on older Imperial Russian rifles, some of the receivers are well over 100 years old.

[@Oldman899]

Excellent video, making sense of a confusing subject. This is a subject that has never been covered before on any post dealing with the Mosin Nagant. You covered all the confusing and conflicting issues regarding barrels and ammunition. You also covered the “D” designation on M39’s. This is a video that must be watched several times to absorb the huge amount of information you shared. The Mosin Museum is truly the “Gold Standard” of Mosin Channels and videos. Thank you Sam.

[@windogendoors7566]

I should add that the Austrians did rebore/rebarrel many Mosins to 8x50r. As you mentioned and showed, some were not. The 8x50r Steyr round produces much less pressure than 7.62x54r thus the pressure added by shooting a bullet with the wrong diameter probably wouldn't be enough to hinder the overall safety. I mentioned probably because I don't know any that were tested or have any documentation such testing. Furthermore, the 8x50r bullet itself is only oversized at the base as it is a bore riding bullet, thus less pressure would also be created. I can assume, the Austrians probably realized this through testing the rifles but since documentation is so limited, who knows.

[@BenG1776]

Were the other barrels made in the 1940s for finnish Moses more safe like an m39 is? Did they have a larger board diameter starting in a certain year on all of the Finnish barrels? Like an example is I have a Finnish m91 with a 1943 barrel with no D marking.......

[@GaborFeher67]

Thanks for the video!! Great infos! Can we get a video where you would show this austro-hungarian mosin? Or a 8x56r mosin in the snow or something like that? 😁 Im so curious about the rifle. im from Hungary, ive never seen any...

[@BigSamMosinMuseum]

I will make a more in depth video at some point. I will also work on getting better pictures and info on the website

[@Oneofthetwelve]

Great video. Very interesting. I don’t find .311/.312 projectiles easy to find. But I do enjoy reloading for my M91.

[@firestorm8471]

303 British is.311 isn't it ?? Buy a bullet mold that is listed for it.

[@johnmaslack8628]

Hornady, Sierra, and Speer make .311-.312 bullets...At one time Speer also made .313 bullets I still have a couple boxes of those...

[@WardenWolf]

Confirmed, .311 is the same as .303 Brit. Which is also the same as 7.7x58 Japanese. These bullets are all interchangeable. 7.62x54R, .303 Brit, and 7.7x58 can all take the same bullets.

[@Oneofthetwelve]

Great feedback.

[@maverickpaladin4155]

Re: the Austrian thing...please post your source for that information. I know you can make 8x50r cases from 54r rounds, but the rest is new. However, if it's for the .318 7.92 bullets, I guess that's possible.

[@TheWilliec1999]

Does your M24 have a Christmas tree stamp at the barrel shank? I am still trying to understand what that stamp is indicative of. My M-24 has it and I'm wondering how it affects what ammo I should be putting through it. It chambers the few rounds of 54r I have no problem, but I'm still unsure if it's safe to go put some rounds through it. It'll not be shot a ton by me as it's more of a collectors piece. But I want to shoot it a bit. Should I go for it? I know you can't say so, but I think you can give an educated guess. The bohler Stahl barrel is in pretty rough shape and shows a lot of evidence of a lot of shooting.

[@johnmaslack8628]

I don't think any barrels other than those from SIg were absolutely settled at 308..OF course the Swiss had standardized at 308 many years previous to this and I suspect it was simply tooling convenience...That is just a hunch on my part though...I have owned probably 20 different Mosins and most were Finnish...None that I have owned were .308. All were .310 or larger...I think the Finns also just reamed everything to D size I have 3-4 M91 Russian rifles, including at least 2 that are antique from the 1890's and they accept D ammo perfectly fine....

[@johnp9402]

My 28/30 non D marked chambered 7.62x54 with no issue and the x53 is only like half a millimeter shorter so all you gotta do is load with .308. I used the d46 bullet from Lapua

[@bluemouse5039]

I have a Finnish Nagant and saw videos people talking about the two different rounds and was unsure about how to find out what ammo my rifle was supposed to use for quite a while, because I thought all the nagant rifles used the 7.62x54R , then the other day while at a gun store yesterday I was talking to others about the issue, One man that was a Military rifle collector said, Just look for a stamping in the metal on the gun what round it uses, because all importers were required to stamp what caliber any firearm uses when bringing it into the United States, I thought to myself , that guy is wrong because I looked all over my gun plenty of times , saw plenty of other numbers and letters but no information of what caliber it was, later that night I started thinking about it , got my rifle out to examine it with a magnifying glass and bright light, after a minute or two sure enough it had stamping near the end of the barrel , it was barely legible but I could read 7.62x54R

[@philmerrow174]

What ever happened with the giveaway?

[@ClutteredMind-yt4gg]

Amazing knowledge. I took a chance on a M28/76 buy that was (prepare to either chuckle or drool) reportedly one of 6 that arrived in the US (in a large multi dozen crate lot buy) in one case together, all gussied up in what looked like modern dupont emron paint and fin flag emblem. Very VERY unused looking barrel.. sterile clean. It seemed no one believed it was genuine because it sold to me for 800. It would be neet if you wanted to make a video with it where you conclude that caviat emptor lives large in the horse trading game. I dont mind the embarassment.

[@bdub2957]

What about Finnish captured SVT 40’s?

[@mannywilliams6409]

Similar to the difference between the 6.5 Swede and 6.5 Norwegian.

[@marco529]

This is why I love M-44's.

[@bdub2957]

What round do you think a 1942 Tika m91 is chambered in?

[@454FatJack]

Tika❌Tikka is a Woodpecker ❤

[@454FatJack]

VKT , Sako made rifle. State Rifle Factory, Civil Guard Armory . VKT was at Tikkakoski town (Woodpecker Rapid’s ) and Sako Riihimäki there still today

[@beaublackford3697]

Is there a Mosin museum in Denver?

[@mkl13]

What is the twist rate?

[@brigond1]

I WOULD LIKE TO SEND YOU A LIST OF 11 SUGGED MOSINS AND THE DIAMETER FOR EACH. Fee free to share it along. It's interesting to see the variations I. A few different models. Do you have an email or place to send you a picture?

[@454FatJack]

Wrong First Mosin’s came 1891 . Old Fin Quard of Grand dutchy of Imperium. It was special unit. Mosin factory number 1. Is in Helsinki Military Museum. Early field trial’s to special unit evaluation. Since 1891-2024😂 1905 it was ❌fear of indepence ❤

[@Letsgofishing911]

Are you a x tewker

[@robertwilliams2623]

Hey big sam thanks for the info .I finally get one but it was two that i got. I got them for 700 bucks

[@asac_onvenient]

Sko

[@George-tz1cv]

Long winded, rambling, and not 100% correct. 👎