The Flanderization of Steven Universe

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Steven Universe is a show that many have conflicted feelings on, and despite my love for the show being rekindled recently I still hold a lot of my prior critiques of the series past the first three seasons. However, in recent years it seems a lot of things about the show, and subsequently Steven himself, have been greatly exaggerated or are spread around as true. I wanted to make a video to address many of these critiques and how a lot of them aren't very accurate.
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Tracks in order of appearance (Repeats not counted):
UNBEATABLE [white label] OST - Main Menu
Persona 4 OST - Like A Dream Come True
Persona 5 OST - Beneath The Mask (Instrumental)
Catherine OST - Act on Instinct
Sam & Max Save The World OST - The Office
Earthbound OST - Buy Somethin’ Will Ya!
Picross 3D Round 2 OST - Challenge
Spark the Electric Jester 3 OST - Shopalo’s Goods
Envoi - Wonders (Outro song)
Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.
#stevenuniverse #rant #entertainment

[@Cartoonshi]

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[@Aisubun]

Yo he got a sponsor let's go

[@WSendam]

You’ve hit the big leagues you champ ❤

[@Mossedhoodie]

Ayyyeee you got a promotion!!!!! Leta go😊

[@Mossedhoodie]

​@@Aisubun Ahlie hes never got one beforeee❤

[@yulee3266]

​@suspicious catwhat makes it the most degenerate show out there? And what does Rebecca being Jewish have to do with it

[@hubadubatron1045]

I still cannot comprehend how SU is the punching bag of modern cartoons when SVTFOE is right there

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Eh, Star actually FOUGHT most of her enemies instead of talking it out. I think that's why.

[@TranshumanMarissa]

@@DrawciaGleam02 I mean, Steven fought most of his enemies too, He just prefered talking it out when he could.. but even then, he usually fought them *while* talking it out.

[@jlwiseman98]

​@@DrawciaGleam02 tbf star's usage violence isn't the reason the show has the issues it does. Its problems are far more unique tbh

[@tiablue9106]

very different stories. SU: seen as an untouchable godly show for 2-3 seasons until ppl finally had to say "y'know...this show has some problems", then just soaked in the disappointment for a few years SVTFOE: pretty well-liked for most of its run but its reputation quickly tanked near the end SU just gave ppl more time to fester over their problems during the dang hiatuses. and the fandom being horrible didn't help

[@prowolf633]

I would also mention on MLP, both FIM and the horrible current generation

[@hoodieanimations08]

Man, Cartoonshi's going through a whole character arc. From edgy humor and rage, to calm and fair.

[@Cartoonshi]

I started my channel at a time where edgy humor and exaggerated anger were present in a lot of the videos I (shouldn't have been) watching as I was growing up. I'm glad to finally shake that off as it makes me feel more comfortable being more genuine, and I don't want to turn people away with edgy BS. I still like the occasional edgy joke but you get what i mean.

[@shinysoda6]

​@Cartoonshi Glad to know you're gaining your style then. And it's okay, we've all did/said stupid stuff because it was popular. Plus you were young and you still are.

[@ThatAllSeeingEye]

​@Cartoonshi シ I subbed for your E;R styled content back in the day, but im glad you found a style that makes you more unique. You and Reble Taxi are what i consider to be the true big shots of the cartoon sphere on KZbin.

[@justanothercomment]

@@Cartoonshi Glad you're feeling more comfortable man! Happy for you :)

[@pingus9934]

@Cartoonshi シ Good because i watched your other videos and they were interesting topics but then you when you yelled and went all edgy and shit on the topics it turned me off. Lept coming back because of the interesting video titles but again the edginess was too much. You were pretty calm and collected in this video though and i applaud to you. Again im a nobody so you can take my word with a grain of salt but yah know

[@asaknight321]

I feel like the biggest thing holding this show back was the writing and pacing. The diamonds while cool deserved to have better writing and white should've never been redeemed.

[@yggdrasilsaltar]

i definitely feel like if they werent rushed to get a finale out the writing wouldnt have taken such a large hit

[@asaknight321]

@@yggdrasilsaltar exactly, if anyone is accountable it is cartoon network for holding them back and it's Rebecca sugar as well for making some of the decisions and choices that ultimately got it that far down the drain

[@LooneyNuke]

I feel like the only one who even had a chance of redemption was Blue, and even then I feel like that would have taken a lot of time

[@BingBongFairy]

And lapis.. just no. She was the worst part of the show after the first season lmao

[@majesticmo5048]

@@BingBongFairy i'll never understand how people actually like lapis. I couldn't stand her after season 1. Her moody angst and split personality whenever she was talking to steven compared to when she talked to other gems annoyed me. Not to mention the countless shitty things she does to other people without realising it

[@eow4317]

The show has lots of issues, and they shouldn’t be ignored. But people have taken the hate waaay to far. It’s still a fun show that people can enjoy

[@garibaldibritann1240]

The only people who can't enjoy it was Twitter. They're obnoxious as hell and they can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with, and they will hunt you down until it ends

[@OakTreeIsaac]

Most definitely

[@daniapfel2825]

Yeah

[@tanishambrowne1137]

I agree

[@brandonlego]

Yes, Steven Universe is still an Enjoyable watch despite so many flaws the show had that honestly can't be ignored. Even coming from a Big Fan like Me that Watched the Show from start to finish at a time when less people were watching Cartoon Network anymore while some didn't really like the show. The Hate it gets is way too far even when I saw someone bash on it to an Extreme Amount and not being reasonable in the slightest. It wasn't a Perfect show but I still love for what it is and what it did Right.

[@milanesadearsenico]

Also we must remember Rebecca at least fought to do something with the ending after CN cancelled the show due to Garnet's wedding. They wanted to make a whole season for the diamonds

[@xRaineDropsx]

Man, that would have been great.

[@matti.8465]

Rebecca arguably sacrificed the show's reputation to have a on-screen gay wedding, which you gotta respect.

[@prismavoid3764]

god it really makes me wonder what the show could've been like if we'd gotten a full Season 6 set on Homeworld. While I don't think there was any way they could've redeemed the Diamonds that wouldn't have pissed SOME people off, I definitely think they could've given the situation a lot more nuance and development which would've at least let more sane and rational people see it as the best possible solution to a really messy situation

[@rappingbeaniedog347]

I am conflicted. On one hand, a season involving the diamonds getting the consequences of their actions thrusted into their faces would've been a god send, I feel like the show should've focused more on that than anything considering what it did wind up doing, or to put it better, just have that happen sooner than it would've. I feel like that was more of a problem due to it's poor pacing though that it took that long.

[@jimmyjohnjoejr]

@@matti.8465 i can't respect that because I am homophobic

[@milanesadearsenico]

People that called Steven a wimp failed to understand the message that being Empathic isn't being weak. It allows you to connect with people, to love and to be loved. And to be loved is to be changed. And that, as Steven says, is his most important power

[@thecod2345]

I think Steven shows the strengths and weaknesses of the empathetic approach. On one hand kindness is undervalued as an option and there is a lot of times that Steven shows how that option should be considered more. On the other hand, the show often categorically refuses to not take Steven’s side which leads to instances where an unbiased and logical eye would see that the time for talk is over and where empathy should not be an option, and instead the writers paint a situation in Steven’s favor when it isn’t or bend the situation to follow Steven’s ideas when it shouldn’t. I’d say Steven is to empathetic protagonists what Luz is to outsider protagonists, both are often good and dogshit representations at the same time.

[@T_E_G]

​@@thecod2345 Tanjiro from Demon Slayer is a good example of kindness- he's nice to everything and everyone but knows when it's time to step up and do your job. He always feels bad for Demons, but still kills them in the end for what they've done. Not only that, but he'll stop/scold someone from doing something bad, like Inosuke and Zenitsu, his close friends. He'll even stand up to injustice and is determined to his goals and word.

[@frog3630]

@@T_E_G exactly, tanjiro evidently shows empathy and sympathy for any demon, but still gets the job done. I just wish steven was like that because the diamonds definitely didn’t deserve redemption (ESPECIALLY white diamond).

[@xempororhxppyx]

@@frog3630 the only reason Steven redeemed the diamonds is so they would heal corruption. After that, he wanted NOTHING to do with them. 💀

[@frog3630]

@@xempororhxppyx yeah but they’re still walking around freely which is odd in my opinion

[@WSendam]

I remember when cartoonshi use to be a simple drawing now he’s grown up to be a slightly taller drawing

[@headlessmaskproductionswse9882]

I remember when he used to have a Loud House character Avatar

[@littlesamu5920]

Our boy grew so much

[@sicksodaa]

​@@littlesamu5920 They grow up so fast, don't they.

[@RandumbComNtary6251]

Minor note: 13:00 Steven does NOT get "pulled" out of his connection to White Diamond. The impact & pain of him ramming both their heads into pillars knocks him out of it. He went through with it, and I would bet money if he didn't knock himself out of it, he would have kept going...

[@064razor]

He would have made her perform Ermac's Hara Kiri

[@gamerbear84]

I think someone noted that he tried to make White headbutt the pillar that had already been dented by her punch, had he not, she would've been shattered, but instead his head connected before hers could, breaking the connection.

[@newthejsterjacob408]

@@gamerbear84 Yes that is exactly what happened, if he didn't accidentally destory that pillar White would be dead

[@RandumbComNtary6251]

@@gamerbear84 OH, I'll have to watch that scene again. White got so lucky

[@argentum8417]

i never actually processed that he was attempting to shatter white, i always thought he was just taking out his anger by harming her while in her body, in a “see what you’ve done to me” type of way, not flat out murder.

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

Steven Universe's worst parts were the fandom and how annoying Steven gets when he tries to play moral judge.

[@kingofcards9516]

Sounds like the writers.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@kingofcards9516 Yeah, the writers and the executive producer really dropped the ball there. Doesn’t help that the show was written by the artists.

[@kingofcards9516]

@@christopherbennett5858 artists with degrees in gender studies.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@kingofcards9516 but any creative writing or language arts courses under their belts?

[@kingofcards9516]

@@christopherbennett5858 none that I know of.

[@TheLexusKitsune]

I always thought Steven was more the kinda person to see the best in everyone as opposed to just blindly forgiving everyone

[@alexanderhunt88]

Ask Kevin that

[@Magosspud]

Seeing someone give an excessively hated show a fair shot is genuinely refreshing

[@InnerAtanih]

It’s not “hated”. It’s criticized. There’s a difference

[@Magosspud]

@InnerAtanih No its definitely hated. There's plenty of actual criticism but that doesn't offset the gigantic amount of people who just despise it

[@nayussysuccer]

@@InnerAtanih SU is like the punching bag for modern cartoons and it’s very clear that a lot of them didn’t even watch the show. I blame that one popular video essay titled something like “su is a bad show for bad people.”

[@JamesP7]

@@nayussysuccer The Lily Orchard vid is the worst one that even many SU critics call out

[@blizyon30fps86]

@@InnerAtanihno there’s actual hate

[@Deemee-ed]

I wouldn't say Steven "easily forgives" people, he's more like... willing to wait for them to change Heck, he sings a whole song about *change* , not forgiveness He shows patience to people, which is why he can forgive them, BUT ONLY _AFTER_ THEY'VE CHANGED AND ACTUALLY IMPROVED (the best example is Peridot: she starts off as an enemy, he shows her patience, she improves as a person, and that's when he forgives her) Also, Steven has met people who didn't want to change, and he did NOT like them (such as Kevin and that fusion between Acquamarine and Ruby) I think the adjective that fits him the most is "patient"

[@minotostar]

Their name is Bluebird

[@Loner098]

Steven almost reminds me of Dr. Kenzou Tenma from Monster, where his medical/surgical morals seem to cause him to hesitate when taking a life, despite also being forced to save another somehow.

[@DimeUhDozen]

Finally, someone giving SU some fair character discussion instead of the blatant flanderization addressed in this video. Another banger, Cartoonshi.

[@NintendoMeister2260]

*Cough* Lily Orchard *Cough*

[@wozziey]

​​@@NintendoMeister2260 it's funny how Lily says she hates SU but always mentions it in *EVERY SINGLE VIDEO* she makes

[@NintendoMeister2260]

@@wozziey I think we got your point in the future length movie you made about how much you hate the show. Even though in the hands of anyone else it would be like 20 minutes if she didn't exaggerate all of her points and let's not even talk about the pedophile allegations.

[@eduardopantoja9115]

​@Wozziey to be fair, it's best to know what you hate then to not know it and blindly hate it.

[@TheTediousFellow]

​@@eduardopantoja9115 I'd get it but for 4 years is Ridiculous

[@JesseGolo]

Nothing ruins a show quite like memes people gaslight themselves into thinking are canon.

[@TheCottonCandyQueen]

Say it louder so the people in the back can hear you

[@klickonthat5244]

It's especially worse with anime, it's amazing how quick a character can get misinterpreted through a meme.

[@tharinypremkumar6284]

@@klickonthat5244 astoflo fans

[@YourLocalRussianNegro]

Every time I think of Steven Universe, I think of what could have been. If the crewniverse just used the same formula it did for the first three seasons which was consistency and world/universe building, we may have gotten a top tier show. And when it comes to filler, the filler could have been worldbuilding filler like ATLA. It could have been great...

[@animeonepiecelife1663]

I feel the same way as you. This show deserved better.

[@asaknight321]

same here bro.. same here

[@josesosa3337]

Same. I kind of wish the arcs and episode releases were split between only townie episodes and only story focus. Instead of the random releases we got. I hope I m being clear.

[@gp-1542]

Well at least fanfics are there

[@andalilbitqueer]

It's not really fair to compare Steven Universe to Avatar, when they were created by very different networks that mandated different things; if you look at all the serialized shows in CN's catalogue they also had a lot of filler that didn't expand on world building.

[@gp-1542]

I like how in a way this conversation really took off when dreamworks make jack honer

[@christopherbennett5858]

I think it’s because the 2010’s was when, in storytelling, redeeming villains kind of became a selling point. Then Jack comes in reminding people why we love deliciously evil villains and that, sometimes, they need to be taken down. It’s seen in other shows like the Legend of Vox Machina. Sure, a guy may have to realise that a demon has been exploiting his trauma and need for vengeance, but it doesn’t shy away from the fact that, especially when the evil necromancies tells you she’ll kill again if it means her dark god will destroy everyone, she needs to be stopped… and the fact that someone who she and her husband manipulated and tortured for years was the one to do it was satisfying.

[@allanromeo360]

ikr, puss in boots 2 single-handedly changed the cartoon community lol, and im ok with that

[@aff77141]

Especially because with Jack Horner, the heroes didn't even actively cause his end--it was the fact they were willing to fight him and destroy the wish, that he died from his own hubris

[@miticaBEP07]

@@christopherbennett5858 I'm still scared that The Owl House will redeem Belos with remorse for killing his brother. They already redeemed pretty much everybody (I wanted a big final battle, all the coven heads looked like fantastic mini-bosses, and something shattered within me when I saw Terra, one of the adversaries I was the most hyped for, reduced to a pawn in the Collector's game and ultimately not disposed of by the heroes).

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@miticaBEP07 I get that. Frankly, I was scared that they’d redeem Big Mama in Rise of the TMNT as well. Wow. We’re actually scared about these writing decisions now. What’s happened?

[@Peridot5xg]

Great video! Steven Universe isn't a flawless show. Arguing might work once, but it's always good to prepare yourself for a good fight next just in case arguing doesn't work. Steven might not be the *beeeest* character from the show, but he's definitly not a wimp. HE CAN THROW SOME HANDS

[@Peridot5xg]

@@yaboizero. [I am still doing it! Just... not as much as i've done before]

[@KysEcstacy]

Also, i feel like people forget hes still a kid in the show. No shit he doesnt wanna kill people, hes a kid!

[@maxiwaxipads]

Oh god, I was right. I SAW YOU IN TWO PLACES WITHIN A MINUTE OF DIFFERENT VIDEOS????

[@asaknight321]

@@KysEcstacy I think that we can all agree upon but there's 2 things that many people question including me. 1. Why did the diamonds get away Scott free and without punishment? Not saying they had to get shattered but them going to space prison or getting bubbled would've worked. 2 if that's the case then why did he shatter jasper over something so little?

[@MisPinkButterfly]

​@@asaknight321 I wouldn't say the diamonds are redeemed in any way. For your first point, they (Crystal Gems) can't exactly do anything because the diamonds still have a planet to take care of. All Steven did was plant the seed that they could change; in the movie they do but only because he asked. Steven actively avoided going to Homeworld in the movie (after he leaves) and in Future. Until, he gets desperate and tries to see if they can help. Second, if you're referring to SUF (where he's 16), that was because of his childhood. He just learned days ago that he's suffering from PTSD. His mind wasn't exactly in the best shape, so he shatters Jasper. He attempts to shatter White as well, for obvious reasons. His rational mind wouldn't want to shatter gems or hurt anyone, which is why when it happens he freaks out. When you're in an agitated state, you can't think properly and do things that you probably wouldn't.

[@cecijayx]

one thing that a lot of people miss when talking about this is that crying is considered a very “feminine” trait and that if you cry you must be feminine and therefore weak. our society has framed crying as the antithesis of strength, and calling someone a “crybaby” is an immediate shut down. but that simply isn’t the case. because steven and the other characters do not shy away from crying in the show (steven in particular is very sensitive in the first season, read: they don’t have any arms), many people point and laugh. steven is framed as a weak protagonist because he’s a man who cries.

[@fruitpun6h]

It’s not because he cries but because he cries over stupid shit

[@scoobertdoobert7348]

No he just cries all the time and it kind of takes the impact away when he tears up like every episode

[@Mrcleanfrfr]

@@scoobertdoobert7348 He's a kid, why wouldn't a twevle year old cry when faced with what he went through

[@annoyingnessbeginswithme5698]

​@@scoobertdoobert7348 bro any twelve year old would ball their eyes out if they had to fight people who were out to kill you often

[@powpowouchy5]

@@annoyingnessbeginswithme5698the battle hardened 5000+ year old gem warriors cry all thr time too. That makes no sense

[@MuchAdoAboutADD]

Looking back, I don't think I've ever thought Steven as a character was terrible or wimpy, so I don't think I ever realized how much people hate and continue to hate him. I loved the "solve conflict with kindness" theme; probably why I loved Waymond in Everything Everywhere All At Once. But man, the writing choices in the later episodes were really just too much for me to get over. Ah well, maybe I'll be more forgiving if I ever get around to rewatching it.

[@joyc.e.7511]

I loved Waymond and like Steven for the same reason. I think kindness and trying to talk things out are great traits to have. Great traits to illustrate in media, especially with male characters and not depicting it as weakness.

[@steampunk-llama]

I think people also really forget the fact that for the majority of the show Steven is 13/14 years old, and 16 in Future. Teenagers aren’t exactly known for having emotional stability even in the best of times, and yet despite that Steven still chooses to be optimistic. And people really fucking hate that in Western animation protags for some reason

[@audreyharris7643]

Interesting

[@xavierjohnson2321]

I know I'm 3 months late, but I think (at least for Steven) the reason is that there's usually a time to talk and a time to take action especially when early on in the series he knows and has been told that you can't try and reason/trust everyone.

[@manat31790]

Aang is 12 years old and he has a healthy/happy ending despite skipping generations. Dick Greyson the Robin started at 12 years old, fought in a hellhole like Gotham and he grew up fine. Sonic the Hedgehog is 16 years old in comic adaptations and he's cool and confident despite suffering a lot. Amuro Ray (Gundam) is 15 years old and is actually angsty, goes through actual wars, and learns to get over being selfish. Uso Even (V Gundam) suffers even worse at *13 years old,* having seen almost everybody he loves die gruesome deaths yet he still sticks to his beliefs and comes out on top. The idea that people don't like optimistic characters in animation is just wrong. And there are countless other teenage protagonists who are inspirational because of their developments yet never lose their ways. Steven Universe is *fictional.* I don't care if he's a teenager, because he can be whatever the writers want him to be. And what the writers wanted was to have him lose his innocence and become an a-hole in SU Future. I am not disappointed because the protagonist is a pacifist. I am disappointed because the writers think growing cynical and arrogant is natural for a hero/savior because of "PTSD", therefore they stopped making Steven optimistic like he was at the start of the show. The writers, for the sake of "realism", practically abandoned what made this show extremely good in the first place. THAT's what I don't like about SU Future.

[@steampunk-llama]

@@manat31790 I dunno how to tell you this but one of the most common symptoms that occurs with those who develop PTSD is abnormal behavioural changes such as unusual aggression (and he absolutely has developed PTSD as a result of what he went through). Steven becoming less optimistic due to trauma is a natural progression of his character *because* he never got a chance to act as anything other than a cheerful therapist for others, of course he's gonna lash out! And the ending of Future shows him getting therapy to deal with this in a healthy way, with him still remaining optimistic. He's not the exact same Steven anymore, but he's definitely not arrogant or cynical like he was during his lowest points. I'm certainly not saying you have to enjoy these changes, nor am I saying the way Future was written was perfect. But just because other series have their teenage characters undergo awful, traumatic situations and bounce back relatively unphased doesn't mean that *every* single character has to follow that path as well, regardless of if those situations are technically less traumatic than others

[@thatkingdomheartsguy9615]

The Diamonds didn't go unpunished, though. They're forced to fix all their mistakes for an eternity. Repairing shattered gems, bringing exiled gems back, etc. They didn't focus on their punishment, but bits of it are there. Especially in the future. This whole "the Diamonds faced no consequences" thing is a ridiculous statement made by people who didn't watch the whole series.

[@commonbridge4735]

Facts

[@elianaasiedu]

I also think while Steven didn’t forgive the diamonds, the show did because they never face consequences other than being estranged from Steven. I don’t know why the stakes are so high in modern cartoons but the punishment never marches

[@christopherbennett5858]

Reminds me of fanfiction in the 2000’s where everything was longwinded, threw every dark idea at the screen and just went to crazy extremes without really factoring in how those things would affect the story. Frankly, shows like Pose and Kotaro lives alone feel like an antithesis to this as the stakes are often more small scale and personal, more character focused and emotionally attached. The end of the world is too big for any of us to comprehend but we all know that the world doesn’t stop turning to take care of a hurt child. And shows like Pose and Kotaro depict that, whilst humanity can suck, it also has the potential to do good.

[@jbonceu2457]

They never get to flesh out the punishment and proper "redemption" of the diamonds because the show was cut out when the ruby sapphire marriage episode was released.

[@wakspacific6928]

Definitely executive meddling

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@jbonceu2457 Then please explain why the watermelon episode existed.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@wakspacific6928 Yeah, honestly most countries that wouldn’t allow it would’ve already banned the episode and, due to the show’s ratings decline, there wouldn’t be much of a threat to Sugar supposedly threatening to pull the show if it meant the episode didn’t air. Plus, considering what happened to Total Drama Island in the UK, censorship will happen even if it messes up continuity. Now, the term executive meddling gets thrown around a lot. Especially as an excuse for things not happening. Sometimes a show needs it. Remember the backlash to Voltron where the creators tried to blame Dreamworks, only for Dreamworks to refute it, showing they have a very hands off approach to creators?

[@Duskool]

This reminds me of when people also did this with Deku/Izuku from My Hero Academia, where the joke was he cried at everything and at everyone, even though it only happens in the first few episodes/volumes of the series (And most of the times he cried either were comedic effect or actal crying with good reason to do so.)

[@suarez9108]

The Steven Universe hate is so massive that 2 "Steven Universe good" videos from big channels don't even add up to 1 "Steven Universe bad" video from a smaller channel in terms of views.

[@dinolover]

Good, its a shit show and a niche group liking it doesnt erase that

[@helenaperez4343]

It depresses me tbh, because it’s far from a perfect show and it has a hefty amount of flaws, but it feels like people just hate on it for the sake of hating on it without contributing anything new to the discussion

[@-themightymittens-]

Yeah, it's sad seeing it be such a hated cartoon. It's not perfect, but sometimes it does feel like people hate on it just because they can

[@animeonepiecelife1663]

For me I personally saw more flaws than good qualities about the show as it went on. I just couldn't bring myself to love or like it as much as I used to as the show progressed.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@animeonepiecelife1663 Same. After the episode, Bismuth, I just couldn’t enjoy it without seeing those flaws. Reminds me of when I used to enjoy Twilight. Then Breaking Dawn happened and I read the bit where Jacob imprinted on Bella’s newborn baby… then I reread the series and saw all of these faults.

[@illusionaryheart3325]

“They are the only characters on the wiki with scrollbars on their crime section” This had me dying

[@yulee3266]

that is funny

[@garibaldibritann1240]

Wow

[@47ratsinahoodie]

I remember saying a lot that Steven never forgave the diamonds and that he obviously did not like them but no one ever really cared just because he let them live :/

[@DrawciaGleam02]

It's the fact that consqeuences for the diamonds were so vague.....if they were exiled maybe people would've been fine with them not being shattered.

[@DefyReality-ll2cg]

@@DrawciaGleam02 This! This would have been a perfect solution as they were sadly needed to uncorrupt all of the corrupted gems. If they were exiled after the uncorruption process maybe the reaction to their "redemption" would have been a bit less hated.

[@rickbill06]

​@@DrawciaGleam02 they can't exile the leader of a fucking nation. What whould become of the people? Steven knows that he can't punish them, because it could cause wars or rebels against him. Let's say they are exiled and Steven or another gem takes over, some of the gems of homeworld could miss the diamonds and go to them, and the diamonds could become a little angry after the exile and then start a war again. Pretty simple stuff, the diamonds can't be punished because they are too important for it. The same thing happens in real life like with Yakuza and the Mob.

[@officerwalter8877]

@@rickbill06 It’s better than letting tyrants who have committed genocide get off scot free knowing they won’t have action taken against them.

[@rickbill06]

@@officerwalter8877 Kim Jong In is literally making nuclear bomb against law. He is a tyrant do you know why we don't do shit? Because they have the power to bomb us and it will end up as loses for both sides. The Gems can literally destroy earth at nearly any moment Steven knows that he is leading with a time bomb and any punishment or any bad feelings they have can lead to bad consequences to earth the entire of earth is at Steven shoulders and he is more mature and responsible than you because I'm sure you in power whould probably cause world war III with these thoughts.

[@WDB2005]

I feel bad for rebecca, she had a great show going but executives meddled with the product

[@JoseSanchez-fk9dg]

The rose quartz pink diamond twist was plan from the beginning by Rebecca so you can’t blame them for every creative decision. What you can absolutely blame them for was the stupid Steven Bombs and month long hiatus that made it hard to follow and keep track off.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@JoseSanchez-fk9dg Yeah. A lot of writers who face backlash claim that things were planned from the beginning. It seems like a big gotcha card to rebuke criticism but it just makes people wonder why, after all this time, no one looked at it again and went “Hold on, something seems wrong.” Seriously, how many times does a writer respond that something that was well received was “planned from the start”?

[@presseagainidareyou4704]

It was still a poorly managed show, like, the Owl House managed to clean things up very well and keep an engaging and deep plot despite being cut short HEAVILY. SU was cut short but the creators never decided to focus on anything important

[@crfstewarje]

@@christopherbennett5858 I don't see what's wrong with creators mentioning that their story was planned from the start. Alex Hirsch from Gravity Falls planned the big twist from the start, and the writing is better than Steven Universe. I

[@MiMiLock58]

@@JoseSanchez-fk9dg i think rose quartz shattering pink diamond may have been planned from very early on, but i don't think they came up with the rose quartz IS pink diamond twist until later

[@lincolnlencioni108]

My main problem with the show isn't the fact that the diamond s are forgiven. Its the fact that they faced no punishment except for a stern talking to. Also the fact that white diamond was redeemed with less than 10 minutes of screen time.

[@matti.8465]

Mudering or bubbling the diamonds wouldn't really be in-line with the themes of the show

[@anonymoose662]

@@matti.8465 they corrupted, bubbled, and murdered jasper who isn't nearly as bad as the diamonds, and was just another victim of the war and pink diamond's carelessness at the end of the day

[@BunnyValentine439]

@@anonymoose662 And jasper was brought back and it was not ANY of the characters who did those things to Jasper say for the last part and that was an accident. It was Jasper who did that to themself. The gems or Steven calling for a death penalty would have been the WORST writing mistake in the show cause it IGNORES EVERYTHING the characters in it stand for. Also no they are not off scot free. Steven DID almost kill white diamond in a moment of angst and weakness so he very much still bears a grudge. That isn't getting off scot free. And yes I call it a moment of weakness cause it was, it was a laps in his judgment. Idc people on the internet being so eager for violence these days, that is rarely ever actually the answer.

[@jbonceu2457]

​​@@anonymoose662 Jasper being corrupted, she did that to herself though. I know Jasper was as much of a victim as the other corrupted gems, etc., but like, don't give her TOO much of a slack, she is still accountable to her own actions. She was a consistent bully all throughout the show and never wanted to change either.

[@cupidpop]

fr white diamond was built up to be this all powerful fearless empress god that nobody would ever dare to mess with or oppose and steven "defeats" her by saying 'i know you are but what am i'

[@christopherbennett5858]

Frankly, I agree that Steven did not forgive the diamonds… but the plot did. The focus is less on their atrocities and more on Pink’s. Pink Diamond’s story is told in reverse and, because everything she did is front and centre and the writers don’t have to show her face consequences, it was easy to make her the sole problem origin. The Diamonds became animation’s Streisand effect. It didn’t matter what the characters thought because, like if the writers wanted their ideal ending, they would get it. It also doesn’t help that the Diamonds had the near entirety of their “redemption” happen offscreen with none of the characters subjugated by the diamonds outside of Steven really having a say in the matter. Like, if Garnet was allowed to show how hurt she’d be that Steven told Blue Diamond, the gem who tried to kill her for existing, that he saw her as family… that would at least be something. Even the most negative critics of Steven Universe will admit that the shows had some really good episodes. Heck, season 1 and 2 are really good examples of children’s fiction. For me, however, Bismuth the episode was where I fell out of love with the show. Bismuth was a great character but the attempt to villainise a character who had lost so much to the diamonds, when the show was in the middle of the Cluster arc, with the whole “you’re just as bad as them” spiel and keep her bubbled for years afterwards… that was just the thing that got me to question everything about the show. It was like when I read Breaking Dawn and read about Jacob imprinting on a newborn. And just like how the Twilight sage tried to refute that imprinting was always romantic, the characters in Steven universe say (or don’t say) one thing but the story tells the complete opposite. Now, character redemptions in stories are not a new thing. Growing up, I was a fan of Digimon and, in every season, at least one character turned from villain to hero. They were often a pawn in someone else’s game, misguided, bewitched or lashing out at the world. No one initially buys their redemptions and they work their asses off to try and do something. They were active participants in the process. Sometimes they win people over. Other times, they would fail because there were some things they couldn’t just put right and their victims needed to be saved and recover first. And it was okay. The two that stand out to me the most are how Beelzemon tried to save Jeri and failed because she was still traumatised by what happened but, by the end of the show, she was recovering and seemed like she’d forgive him when she’d moved on. The other was in the second season where Cody is conflicted on seeing Ken as a good person because he did not just hurt Cody; he hurt everyone in the digital world. Those two examples show two things. Forgiveness is not how you move on; it’s what you can show when you have. The other is that, whilst you may be able to forgive what someone did to you, other people should also be able to recover just like yourself. Unfortunately, a good amount of shows and movies seem to forget these things, especially when the villain getting redeemed is a love interest or family. Rise of the TMNT (a show I love) may have done better with Draxum in season 2 if the season hadn’t been halved due to cancellation but, in a mix of making Draxum a passive participant in his redemption, no stories where Draxum faces those who he affected outside of the turtles and Mikey (a character who almost always sides with those who have been abused in other iterations) telling his father that the only way to heal from trauma is to forgive the one who did it to you… it left a sour taste in many mouths. Movies like Star Wars and programs like She Ra paired up abusers with their victims yet went all out with such disturbing levels of violence that the kisses and confessions in each finale turned stomachs around the world. Shows like MLP went so overboard on the villain redemptions that, not only did it make the shows predictable and boring to many but also caused some weird hypocrisies to appear. At some point, redemptions became a selling point in storytelling but less about compelling stories about characters overcoming their past but more on some weird messiah complex that, with just the right words, you can reach across the aisle and bring back those who had lost their way, disregarding everyone they had hurt, out of obligations of either love or family rather than characters actively wanting to be better. At some point, redemption became less about interesting stories (like with Peridot) and more about some sort of white saviour complex. Apologies for the rant but had to get it off of my chest. You do good work, Shi. I’m glad you’re able to self reflect and go back and revisit things with a clear head. I think there are glimmers of decent quality nowadays. Maturity doesn’t always mean a grey morality. Sometimes it means picking a side knowing that the right answer isn’t going to be an easy one. I just wish that writers could show that once in a while… or at the very least stop redeeming the leaders of genocidal groups in fiction.

[@asaknight321]

Okay hear me out.. imagine if we got 1 scene in the movie opening where they were near him and he just got a bit uncomfortable or unsettled by all 3. IMAGINE THAT TINY SMALL SPECK OF A DETAIL that could've made it make more sense

[@aff77141]

Definitely this, really good points

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@aff77141 thank you. I think I got a little carried away in length

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@asaknight321 You mean something that could be easily overlooked?

[@LucaxCorp]

Don’t apologize for anything. You decided to cook and ended up with a 5 star meal.

[@hustinyano.a]

What I don't like about SU is not the show itself but the fandom AND hatedom. People that love or hate SU could NOT stop talking about the show

[@nayussysuccer]

The fandom was so fucking awful back in the day. Thankfully it has chilled out now but are constantly bullied by the hatedom, which i think is much more annoying than the fandom nowadays. Like if you say something positive about SU and have that get a lot of attention, you get jumped on.

[@garibaldibritann1240]

@@nayussysuccer One of main reasons why i hate current entertainment discussions: constant bandwagon about the said subject to the point kicking the dead horse

[@shroomiwoomi]

I'd like to point out (even though I know nothing about Future) that PTSD comes from one traumatic experience. Steven had literally dozens of traumatic experiences and likely has C-PTSD (complex post traumatic stress disorder). C-PTSD can have entirely different symptoms than PTSD and manifests in lots of different ways; ones that even the medical field has trouble characterizing. As a person with C-PTSD, all of the clips of Future I've seen actually handle it pretty well.

[@newthejsterjacob408]

Yeah and don't worry the show does not say he has PTSD specifically just trauma, probably because they still wanted to leave it a bit general so people could relate, everyone just says that's what he has as its the easiest to say

[@ponponpatapon9670]

the only thing about Future I dislike is that Steven seems to be reduced to *only* his C-PTSD. i'm not defined by my trauma FFS, so why is he??

[@elisfangs]

@@ponponpatapon9670you know, im unsure, but i think that Steven universe future takes place during a time in his life where hes really dwelling on what happened to him, he can never catch a break from his own mind, things trigger him constantly, etc. id like to think usually steven is just normal ol' steven, but during suf, he cant come to be himself during a time in his life like this especially since he sees himself as a monster who cant be a people pleaser anymore

[@newthejsterjacob408]

@@ponponpatapon9670 Future didn’t just focus on his trauma but also how this is affected by life rapidly changing. How the relationships which kept his mind stable are also changing but he learns that it’s important to embrace this change

[@timburtonlover369]

Where did you hear that about PTSD? Seems weird they would change the definition of a condition to exclude the people it was initially discovered about (soldiers that likely had multiple traumatic experiences in war)

[@Vleaso]

Cartoonshi saying something good about Steven is a nice redemption arc

[@WSendam]

Now where’s the villain arc

[@klamacz47]

No, that's the villain arc

[@joshbuoy8661]

Better than the Diamond redemption arc in Steven Universe for sure

[@quangamershyguyyz7166]

@@devildolphin2102 People like you are the reason I lose hope In society every day.

[@andalilbitqueer]

​@@devildolphin2102 nah, channeling your anger into something that's actually productive is a good thing actually.

[@Flugel_Halogen]

people act like Steven is the only one who forgives people for doing a lot of fucked up things, in fact most main characters do that

[@maxwellschwass]

Honestly, I've always knew that I consider forgiveness/diplomacy as alternative heroism

[@3starsburningbright]

The episode Volleyball in SU Future shows that to you pretty blatantly too, Volleyball comes to a realization that Pink Diamond actually _hurt her_ and that she had just been making excuses for her this whole time. And that’s something I really relate to as someone who has gone through similar.

[@Signedcentaur]

Tldr; Steven isn't just a pure good pacifist who tries to argue his way out of situations, and cries if something goes wrong. He is a paladin, through and through.

[@micaiahborchers8914]

Steven Universe is really special to me. I just got into it WAYYY LATER like YEARS LATER than everyone else but it's just such a beautiful, heartfelt show and it's helped me through so much pain. I know about the continuity errors, flaws, bad characterization - whatever, whatever. I get it, but if every porkchop were perfect WE WOULDNT HAVE HOTDOGS anyway. that's all. thanks for the video! you've earned a subscriber. i don't want to think about all the failures of my new favorite show, but as a writer myself i'm acknowledging them and trying to figure out how to prevent them in my own work.

[@deadite3879]

Redeeming someone like the diamond, are not bad inherently but that's something you do over a entire season or even series. it is not something that is done over just a few episodes.

[@christopherbennett5858]

And even then, the bulk of their redemption is skipped over in the two year timeskip. Makes you wonder if the writers actually cared about telling that story.

[@garibaldibritann1240]

@@christopherbennett5858 They have a restriction due to Garnet wedding so it makes sense that they need to rush everything on their sleeves to ramp up the stories, hence the endgame felt rushed

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@garibaldibritann1240 Definitely could’ve removed a lot of the watermelon episode. I was thinking something just added in “Legs from here to Homeworld”.

[@cometsgallery]

how do you redeem something that has slaughtered countless organic life, wiped out planets, enslaved their people, were a metaphor for homophobes and abusive family members? i dont think 20 seasons could ever make that okay

[@garibaldibritann1240]

@@christopherbennett5858 That Watermelon episode (escapism) is a part of the story which doesn't make any sense to erase it

[@kawakawaii]

YAY CARTOONSHI GOT HIS FIRST SPONSOR!!!! Anyway ive noticed a pattern. Every time a show enters season 4, something weird happens.

[@Office_chair]

Yeah most of the time if a show goes past season 2 it starts to kinda get worse from there. At least in my opinion.

[@sacreddeer9711]

I think a lot of people also forget one crucial detail: SU was cut short. It was cancelled because of the Rubypphire kiss.

[@kingofdemons948]

Most of SU’s flaws can be blamed Cartoon Network screwing over the show. Rebbeca said she really couldn’t make the show in her image.

[@sacreddeer9711]

@@kingofdemons948 yes, thank you!

[@TulpechaidoplaysMC]

If it was cancelled due to them kissing it would've been cancelled since Season 2

[@sacreddeer9711]

@@TulpechaidoplaysMC It wasn't cancelled on the spot, it was cut short. Let's not deny blatant homophobic censorship.

[@NintendoMeister2260]

@@TulpechaidoplaysMC I'm pretty sure back then it was believed Ruby was male and they ignored her being addressed with female pronouns until the wedding.

[@jeepmega629]

If he found out what Jack Horner did, Steven would try to do what he did to White Diamond to him.

[@maxhadanidea]

@redloiyu654jay not likely

[@maxhadanidea]

@redloiyu654jay p much

[@kaylakay1241]

​@redloiyu654jay his pink form is kinda op

[@mentosvagabond]

@redloiyu654jay if anything, the shield spike wall that he using to accidentally kill that orange gem girl is probably enough, I doubted Jack Horner can even be punch and go through like 7 big ass tree and still not break a bone like Jasper. So that Steven spike shield wall is like a hydraulic press and Jack is like a crayons box.

[@jeepmega629]

@redloiyu654jay Steven has the powers of a god, so the odds aren’t looking good for Jack.

[@Jul-fu4yu]

The discussion about the diamonds evading consequences brings to mind Queen Moon's similar situation where she was pardoned despite her secret actions causing chaos for everyone.

[@ruminatingreptilian5907]

*Cartoonshi:* "I think Steven Universe is somewhat overhated". *SU Fandom: "You weren't supposed to do that."*

[@toxicfox3242]

Thats not how "Fans" Work. It's randos Some of the fans are pretty shitty to though

[@burlyfoil1022]

"A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one"

[@honeycomb170]

It’s really sad that People nowadays are so willing to use series/products with plenty of issues as excuse to act incredibly shitty to towards it and the people who like it. I have lost mutuals relationships for Semi-liking/Defending things in very fair ways that even they would’ve have understood very fairly for the others Franchises that we were fans of and acted similar in the past. Seeing people like this that are so readily available to throw away their morality for things they dislike is so disheartening to me.

[@toon4thought]

I appreciate that someone like you was willing to take some time to pump the brakes on all the discourse and be all "yeah, you're REALLY going too far guys". Character development right there.

[@dollette3275]

Maybe it's weird for me to feel this way, but sometimes I like characters having inconsistently. It makes them feel more human, and sometimes inconsistences aren't always a bad thing. There were definitely things about Steven's character I found annoying, but one example I can think of that I found to be enjoyable was his hatred of Kevin. A lot of people pointed that out as "unfair" and as an inconsistency in his characterization or wtf ever, but people aren't fair sometimes, and I can understand why he felt the way he did about Kevin. Not only did Kevin make him feel objectified as Stevonnie, he knew that Connie was made to feel the same way. If I were in a similar situation, I wouldn't give a shit if I treated people of worse offenses differently. (Something else to note, I am going off of my memory. I dont know if it was actually "inconsistent" with his character or not, or if it was handled well or poorly. I haven't relwatched the show in awhile, I am just pulling from my memories and my feelings at the time that I remember lolol)

[@burnttoast3925]

I love that both videos ive seen defending overblown hate on SU (the other being the roundtable's vid about the hate wave the show got a few years back) do point out the shows flaws, but also explain how those flaws have been wildly twisted into something very innacurate. also that jack horner meme is quite ironic considering that song was steven's LAST resort.

[@geet9830]

the closest steven has ever gotten to how memes portray him as is in the bismuth episode. he randomly gets uncomfortable at bismuth's fighting and refuses to use a weapon that would shatter the diamonds. and even then, he still fights back and poofs bismuth when talking doesn't work. related: the bismuth episode always bothered me. it's all steven preaching that killing is wrong and how killing the diamonds would make them just as bad to bismuth, who has seen her friends die in war against homeworld.

[@christopherbennett5858]

Doesn’t help that, since the writers confirmed racial coding is used in their characters, it’s basically Steven whose family created and benefited from the oppression talking down to a gem of colour about shattering the diamonds would make her just as bad as them… in the middle of the Cluster arc.

[@garibaldibritann1240]

@@christopherbennett5858 Please stop using racial code references it's been done to death and i don't want any case of racism when discussing about the show

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

@@garibaldibritann1240 you can ignore it all you want but that doesn’t mean it’s not there

[@jbonceu2457]

You can't blame steven, he is just a child full of innocent pov facing all this war shenanigans etc. Of course he will not side with "an eye for an eye" ideals. He will always find a good and empathetic resolution as much as possible.

[@mrdinosaur7690]

@@jbonceu2457 that's honestly what I appreciated about Steven and why i hated his arc in SU future. Stevens entire arc was always about optimism and peace.

[@sososbizarreadventure]

I don’t understand why Steven gets hate for wanting to talk out issues instead of fighting, does anyone actually just punch people in the face irl when they disagree?? Glad you’ve had a more open mindset, I hope others follow in your footsteps

[@GalekC]

The show or the character?

[@Mankey619]

Steven Universe is ten years old now. When people on the internet think of him being a wimp is misunderstanding his character. This is the kid who shattered Jasper, and not to mention trying to shatter White Diamond.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

I remember when those episodes aired and people were fussing about Steven's character being ruined due to those instances.

[@sophisticatedPJs]

THANK YOU. Everyone wants to act like he just ignored the diamonds' actions entirely and solves every conflict with a hug, it's like they haven't even watched the show. They were removed from power and never once does steven even show a hint of forgiving them for their actions, just taking Bismuth's advice right before leaving. "Roaring at the lions in their own language" if you will. While I do have my own thoughts on parts of this video (I personally really enjoyed Future as someone with their own childhood trauma) I'm honestly just relieved to hear someone even giving it a fair chance. Most "discussions" around this show are just people shitting on it blindly and thoughtlessly.

[@AizakkuAnalysis]

It's probably down to Steven being a child. But I remember in the first few seasons he was all about fighting. Whether it was him excited to use his new powers, or watching the gems fight. He loved watching people throw hands. Where'd that Steven go? 😂

[@jstrachan2602]

He grew up? Learned that violence doesn't solve every problem, at least not healthily?

[@sneakysneakyraccoon8538]

@@jstrachan2602 sort of like how children play soldier toys until they went to an actual war.

[@madderandmadder]

It's easy to be gungho about fighting and getting to play the hero, until you're severely traumatized by it lol.

[@AizakkuAnalysis]

@@jstrachan2602 Except violence 100% would've solved all his problems.

[@Laiser]

It's an intentional part of his character that he stopped loving violence when he real violence started affecting him and his life.

[@Flugel_Halogen]

being self sacrificing, having zero self preservation and putting other people's happiness their own are also things most main characters do

[@nocturnalcove9736]

The show was at its peek during Peridot's redemption arc. No idea what happened but the show just slowly rolled down hill and fell off a cliff when they redeemed White Diamond.

[@owenfautley]

That was because the show was cancelled by CN due to the wedding so they had to rush the ending.

[@blizyon30fps86]

It was canceled at season 4

[@Rosy_Blossom]

Steven kinda reminds me of three characters, Tanjiro, Takemichi, and Deku. All three have kinda the same motive but a little different. They want to try to help others if they can or can't change. Like Takemichi isn't strong but is good with his words to the point some may listen, Tanjiro would feel bad for a demon for what had happened but still has to end there life and not forgive their actions but feel bad on what they've been through, Deku would understand someone else pain and try to help them but won't forgive them at any point. Steven is like those three characters in my thought. All three would want to help others but not always forgive them at times, to which in Steven's case in both the original show, movie, and future.

[@RainyStast]

I think the show fell when it decided to go ham on all of the things Pink Diamond has done, but everyone else is "redeemed". When other people are around the diamonds it's either completely ignoring them or "slightly peeved". Even in that one episode where Steven almost shatters White, it's when White is completely defenseless and doesn't actually address the negative impact she's had. However when people talk about Pink, it's either depressed, running out of the room, or screaming. I wouldn't mind the diamonds having a redemption arc so much if the show didn't chastise Pink so much, and let everyone else off basically scot free. Putting the proverbial target on Pink's back when the source of nearly all of the problems in the entire show (the diamonds) just kind of stand in the background has never sat right with me.

[@newthejsterjacob408]

The reason why that is is because most of the characters had a deep love for Pink as well. It hurts a lot more when there are massive flaws in someone you love than with someone you hate. It is clear they all dislike the diamonds and interact with them as little as posssible. In almost all instances when a villian is redeemed the gems work with them but with their guard up and at an arms distance in order to keep them in check and so they don't have to interact witt them, or in comedic cases are very annoyed with them

[@harrybechtle4333]

So basically rose wasn’t a person but an idol to be discarded

[@joyc.e.7511]

THANK YOU. It's not even the characters hating Pink that gets to me (we meet many characters directly wronged by her, they are within their rights to) it's the FANDOM. Some people will say with their whole chest that Pink was pure evil and is responsible for all the problems the character's face. Even though she's one of the better written characters in my opinion, with how her character development was presented in reverse order. We go from seeing the best of her as Rose Quartz to the worst of her as an immature Pink Diamond. She made some god awful mistakes but she also did incredible things. Fans like to blame her for everything but with out her there would be no humans left on Earth in the first place??? We see that she was a good person, learned to be good, and showed remorse for her actions, but people still think she's the worst of the worst, despite knowing that literal genocidal space dictators raised her💀I think she turned out alright.

[@MisPinkButterfly]

​@@joyc.e.7511 Oh my god, thank you. For some reason a lot of people forget about how Pink was treated even before and after she was given the Earth. The diamonds treated her like a child more than a diamond. She was never taken seriously but even through all of it, she changed! Even before the Earth, she must have loved creatures but learned to love life more after experiencing it herself. She learned what it meant to be human. While some of her actions may have been a bit extreme. Given her circumstances, what was she supposed to do? She flawed. She made mistakes. She became human. She's actually really well written then most people think. Finally someone agrees!

[@HappyHyperHuggieNini]

I just wish they'd stop making us forget that she grew as a person/gem.

[@WayneGlensky-vx5er]

Growing up is realizing kratos is literally more forgiving then steven 💀💀💀

[@glowstickspinalfluid]

my favorite part of the jack horner memes is when they use the steven crying from the last future episode, because at that point, he literally killed someone just a few episodes ago

[@Sootielove]

Gotta say that Steven Universe the character is transgressive in having a male protagonist being so emotionally open. The fact he cries so much is mocked feels like it comes from a source of "Haha! Men crying is pathetic!" (note: he is also a child throughout in a show for children) The show tried so hard to do something different and portray queer and atypical characters but it only got mangled by the studio and loathed by the public for it. I'm more than aware of every issue of Steven Universe's writing (strange pacing, awkward thematic conflicts, series of episodes focusing on its weakest elements like the townies) but knowing the background of how Rebecca Sugar's team was rushed, cut, and bullied, I forgive a lot of it. Again, the diamonds were redeemed so quickly so Rebecca Sugar could have the first gay wedding in children's media. They had to rush their ending because production was going to be cut after Garnet's wedding. That's straight up censorship due to homophobia. I think people forget a) how quickly society has progressed from the early 2010s homophobia and b) how hard this show worked to allow queer and atypical shows in its wake.

[@absolite6]

Steven Universe had so much potential as a show. I fell in love with the mysteries of the gems and many of the characters (Peridot is still best gem) but what initially hindered my enjoyment was the pacing, especially during the "bomb format" of Season 4 through to 5. It was always so annoying that amongst dozens of plot threads going on we were essentially forced to come to a halt to focus to the townies, who I mostly found boring. The Pink Diamond twist was where the show started to test my patience with its writing. To this day I'm still very conflicted about it but I still held onto hope that maybe it could still do something good. But no.... I understand that they wanted to do the character development in reverse thing but with the amount of damage caused by Pink I wasn't invested, I was just....really sad.... It never felt like Steven got the closure he needed..... Still stand by that White is the one Diamond that should never been redeemed or at least gotten off half as much for her actions and that Blue is probably the only Diamond that had potential to be a legitimately redeemed character. Her first interaction with Greg was fascinating when I first saw it. It would've been a perfect way to allow Greg to be more involved. I have loads more to say but that's a few of my thoughts. I haven't revisited the show and I don't intend to any time soon but maybe a decade down the line I will.......once the bitter taste is out my mouth.....

[@purplehaze2358]

This video’s energy was entirely like, “It’s a bad show guys, but it’s not _that_ bad”.

[@garibaldibritann1240]

@@sirpheredin1379 How? Even you disagree with Cartoonshi but when he explained something positive in any media he had enjoyed it doesn't felt forced or downright disingeneous Even a good or bad media we should acknowledge its goodness and flaws

[@Jakeneutron]

Steven accidentally shatters Jack Horner

[@whiteknight8445]

As long as that one meme format keeps getting passed around and reproduced, I feel like the flanderization will never end

[@campcampcamp]

No matter people's stance on SU, it can at least get the honour of having been one of the shows that Fujimoto (Chainsaw Man's author) watched

[@duka7799]

WAIT WHAT

[@ianbadeaux7774]

Well... I finally see why the manga has fell out...

[@campcampcamp]

@@ianbadeaux7774 Ok? Lol

[@kyperactive]

RIP Cartoonshi's social medias after this one 🗿

[@entityontheinternet]

He is gonna be able to fill an entire Dictionary with all the Buzz Words that People will call him

[@limeyell0w945]

at least he'll be safe thanks to surfshark vpn

[@entityontheinternet]

@@limeyell0w945 You should become a KZbinr

[@limeyell0w945]

​@@entityontheinternet :D

[@anxurious4307]

​@Negative Luigi what do you mean by that?

[@Dylan-ds3dc]

Honestly, I wish we’ve seen more of the reasons on why the diamonds created such a vast and destructive empire, as well as a more well written ending. Also, how would the end up uni the end?

[@BunnyValentine439]

To be fair the show got canceled so that's why the ending was rushed. They probably wanted to explore allot more and maybe make the "redemption" take longer if they had the time.

[@purpleemerald5299]

That destructive empire was literally how gems reproduce. Every single gem we see is the product of that. Asking why they did it is like asking why a carnivore violently kills other creatures for its offspring. It’s stated numerous times that that’s what the gems were made to do, and White Diamond even hints at that being a purpose imbued on her. In the cancelled sixth season, there _was_ going to be an arc diving into the origins of gemkind and their seemingly artificial creation. But we never got that. Which sucks, because I always assumed the diamonds themselves were also just cogs in a machine based on the lyrics in “what’s the use of feeling blue”, in the same way that an ant queen doesn’t actually have real authority; she’s just the most valuable member of the colony because it’s birthed from her.

[@Toriyamaus]

I can't quite put into words how... Cathartic(?) it feels seeing Cartoonshi (partly) defend this show now. Years ago, he was one of the only people I saw critique the SU film (which I found myself unable to enjoy) and I felt good to see someone back me up (even if he was a little edgy). Recently, I've been thinking back on the show, the good parts, how much they met to me, and even the ending, and I was thinking "Maybe we were to hard on that show..." And now Cartoonshi posts this. And it's funny, because... it feels *even better* than when I heard him trash the film. Point is, Thank you, Cartoonshi. ❤ It's been great to see you grow, and to grow as a person with you. I even put your Amphibia video in my comfort video playlist because of how good it makes me feel.

[@barf_lord_9399]

Trauma can affect so many people differently. I also had a near death experience a few years ago and I still get freak outs and nightmares from it. I think Steven is very relatable in suf. So just because it's not relatable to you doesn't mean it portrays it poorly. The show makes me feel so much better because I feel less alone so it hurts to have people say Steven's feeling are wrong because it's exactly how I think and feel

[@barf_lord_9399]

I got send to the hospital and was told I have post traumatic stress and a psychiatrist is getting me a medication prescription soon to deal with my meltdowns and panic attacks. I find it kind of offense to say a character with the same struggles as me is "bad representation" when I've never felt so represented before

[@blandon93]

bro he cannot die, gem heals him and creates protection aura. relating to Gary Stu is stupid.

[@diminie_chimket]

​@@barf_lord_9399 good job saying his opinion is "offensive" just because you disagree with him lol nothing he said was offensive, he just has a different opinion than you. Don't take things so seriously

[@st4r_b0y80]

As someone who adores Steven Universe, I agree with everything in this video. Steven inspired me to start doing something when others hurt me or wouldn’t listen. It changed my life and helped me get through some really tough parts of my life.

[@pidgedidge]

I think that IF the show had not redeemed White Diamond at least the hate would be lessened. There was already the idea that she controlled the other diamonds, literately controlled them if they chose to disobey her. It wouldn’t have been good, and it still would have been a cop out, but at least it wouldn’t have been redeeming the one who was actually consciously committing all these crimes. The “big bad evil guy,” as it were. I do however think that Pink Diamond got the short end of the stick as far as redemption goes. You see her story in reverse, so by the end of the show the other diamond’s crimes aren’t the main focus but hers are so in comparison she seems much worse than she actually was. Not to say she was a good person at all, but at least she was more the antihero, morally grey kind of character instead of a flat out evil dictator. Also if Lapis got redeemed Jasper should have too. People love to overlook that scene where Lapis admitted she liked hurting Jasper, and Jasper herself was so much more sympathetic later on.

[@cisnt9244]

I think people forget about "just a thought" too, where stevonnie panics over the images of all the people Steven had to hurt because there was no other way. He was a kid forced to hurt people, suffered trauma, and went forward trying not to hurt people ever again unless he has to.

[@cisnt9244]

He's a child and the characterization reflects that at every stage of his life.

[@LectroArt]

This is a great video, and I agree with a lot of the points made! Although with the topic of the Diamonds being punished for what they did, while I agree they should be punished, would there ever be a punishment that would actually work? They're a bunch of all-powerful space tyrants, I feel like the chances of some kinda punishment working on them would be next to none. Them being pacified feels more like something done out of necessity than just being "what's right."

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Taking away their powers? Exiling them from Gem Society?

[@MiMiLock58]

yeah, this is why i think they messed up as soon as they made the diamonds these all-powerful beings. like how do you even stop that

[@audreyharris7643]

​@@DrawciaGleam02 how do you take away there powers

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

@@MiMiLock58 I say they messed up after making the diamonds an abusive family metaphor too

[@MiMiLock58]

@@Saltedroastedcaramel i think it could've worked if it was just that from the beginning, and they were weak enough to actually be defeated somehow (poofed and bubbled probably). could've been a "it's cool to want to give people a chance to change but sometimes it just doesn't work" type deal actually now that i'm thinking about it i guess that's what they did with bluebird. could've been way more impactful lol

[@marmalade8915]

The redemption of the diamonds is not about forgiving their evil deeds, it's about allowing them to change, making them into better people

[@audreyharris7643]

I've heard this before if this is true then it's a huge misunderstanding then

[@mxochii5159]

Which is bullshit because they clearly deserved death

[@owenfautley]

​@audreyharris7643 Well of course since if Steven did not rationalise with them many gems would still be corrupted and shattered. He needed to placate them to get them to help.

[@Viggar]

I still really enjoy the show despite its flaws, to me the good outweighs the bad, and the mischaracterization of Steven that everyone seems to think is true gets pretty annoying after 5000 copy-pasted tweets

[@badbitcheswalkthrough8195]

Personally I really liked Steven Universe Future’s handling of PTSD! It resonated very strongly with my experience of it, especially as someone who got PTSD when I was a child and only came to terms with it as a teenager, much like Steven.

[@felipequaresma4215]

i think this is happening cause a lot of shows started doing the thing with redemption, tied with the bad thing that was the ''redemption'' of the diamonds, this ended up taiting the memory of every person.

[@christopherbennett5858]

Agreed. Usually by making the redeemed character a main antagonist who was either family or a romantic interest. Off the top of my head, She-Ra, Star Wars and Rise of the TMNT come to mind.

[@dustyrose192]

There needs to be a message that not every person can be redeemed. I think perhaps blue could have but yellow would have worked very hard for it (with blues help.) White should not have been redeemed

[@greenamber9827]

The diamonds being redeemed is a fan interpretion, it's not canon.

[@tarzanfashionist1575]

personally i think that Jasper Un-shatterd scene added more to fuel to steven's degrading mental health, essentially showing that 'its fine if he fucks up he can just fix anything' which also just adds to the general message of future that you can't really JUST depend on yourself to fix an issue. tho yeah admittedly the way they brought her back was kinda sleezy

[@jtlego1]

And it's not like the scene is without consequences either. Jasper takes the moment as an admission that Steven is worthy of Diamond-level respect and Steven *does not take that well.* Hell, everyone *balks* at the end of Everything Is Fine when Steven just casually mentions mid-breakdown that he shattered Jasper.

[@morgancrowley4484]

My problem is that the show goes more and more out of its way to villianize Pink while the narrative seems to bend backwards to justify redeeming the diamonds

[@jesterdays]

It doesn't villainize Pink, her whole redemption was just told backwards. She goes from no different than the other diamonds (at least morally) to learning to appreciate other life forms, etc.

[@manat31790]

​@@jesterdays But that redemption isn't acknowledged nor appreciated by the main characters. When Steven meets Spinel in the movie and learns that she's been abandoned there. He irritatingly responds with "She would totally do that." Both Steven and the fandom don't see Pink/Rose as a spoiled princess learning to appreciate other life forms. They see her as a backstabbing tyrant who has orchestrated a rebellion to satisfy herself while pretending to be good and compassionate. Therefore she has been betraying everybody and ruining their life.

[@TheBoardGamer]

The thing that gets me most about people complaining about the show, they say that Steven forgives the Diamonds but he literally doesn't. How does anyone get that from the show? Because they weren't punished? There's literally nothing he can do about it, they are by far the most powerful beings in the universe and it eats him up in Future, plus the punishment is essentially reviving people for the next couple centuries. While it doesn't justify shit, it is quite literally the best possible outcome

[@10Bendog]

Steven Universe is probably the show that I’ve felt most betrayed by. I was so invested in it when it came out. I was a diehard fan of it. But then the last season, excluding the wedding, but double including the finale and the Diamonds’ redemption, massively disappointed me that after the movie I never wanted to touch that franchise ever again. It was like every good memory I had with it got absolutely soiled by that ending. I never outwardly went to hate on the show, but when ppl would clown on it, I’d often join. Now tho… Now the hate for Steven Universe is starting to become so prevalent, and exaggerated, that I’ve started to feel bad for it. Especially when the hate comes from biggots who target its progressiveness instead of its shoddy writing. I’ll never forgive the awful ending. I don’t think I’ll ever have the interest to watch Future either. But I’ll at least try to look back at the first 3 seasons and Garnet’s wedding for what they were and appreciate them on their own.

[@WC3fanatic997]

I've literally never heard anyone dog on it for it's "Progressiveness". In fact all the "Bigots" I run with (because you people overused that word to hell and back and it means nothing now since it basically encompasses 80% of the population at this point) have said nill about it past the fact they thought it was trite garbage that seemed forced. *_Even I thought that_* back before I was forced to cut off ties with former "Non-Bigot" friends who loved this show. In fact I would say almost all of the hate comes from the very people who made this show their entire lives for about 5 years. This tends to be an extremely prevalent theme with a lot of these kind of Tumblr Bean-Mouth shows; they start off like a freight train with a fantastic premise, a truck-load of unique plot points and interesting characters with fascinating interactions with each other, it goes for a couple seasons while building up a rabid fanbase that eats, sleeps and breaths the show, something big happens behind the scenes, things take a dramatic change, the show starts looking like dogshit because the new people in charge know about as much about plot structure and characterization as a ham sandwich and only want to try and push their idea of what the show should be (or worse, an agenda of some sort, which has been happening a lot lately), and then all the people who loved it turn on it with that same rabid fervor. They also, almost overwhelmingly so, say the same things you did; the series is ruined after a very specific point (there is always a specific one, despite the fact there's like a thousand other reasons), retrospection of everything that came before is ruined (memories, experiences, etc.), that they cant enjoy even the good parts of the show, all that stuff. It happened to SVTFOE too. You cant go anywhere about it without seeing people fighting over what they think the shows most egregious crime is (Except the Subreddit obviously, though even that isn't completely immune to it). Dont bother trying to look up anything on KZbin about it or you'll get a thousand and one comments all saying "Yikes" about _something,_ completely without any attempt at understanding the nuance or greater scope and concept behind a scene or plot. Whereas everyone outside the rabid parts of the fandom just partakes in the copious amount of Hekapoo dumptruck art. They dont care about whether it's bad or not.

[@newthejsterjacob408]

For me I think it still stayed true to the characters presented and worked est with the few episodes they were given after they got cancelled. Also that Future is a great tie up on the series and specifically Steven as a character but of course I can't force you to watch it or anything. Also Star vs betrayed me a lot more lol

[@user-ky8cx2tj7q]

Ya even though I felt so let down by how the show finished, those first 2-3 seasons still hold a special place in my heart. It only takes re-watching one of those old episodes (and appreciating the background art and music and character writing and world building) for me to remember why I once loved the show so much

[@jadamiller7485]

The diamonds make sort of sense when you realize that the diamonds are also representative of toxic family, and steven basically went low contact. They are space dictators though. But you COULD possibly think that that could represent how a household could run like a dictatorship... Still, they built the staked to high for that.

[@luxury_nightmare]

Hot take? I think blue was the only diamond who it made sense to give a redemption arc to. After pink supposedly died she would go into mourning, neglecting her colonies and dedicating her time to preserving the life on the planet pink loved. Also it would make the ending to the movie much more satisfying if blue was the only diamond left. Her and spinel take pink off the pedestal they both put her on and learning how to move on. Two broken people learning how to heal

[@The_XnXlXzXr]

What?! You mean to tell me all those funny pictures I saw on Twitter lied to me and did not take into account the character proper only to make stupid jokes to dunk on a show that's a deader horse than the reputation of the people who made videos shitting on it years ago? Say it ain't so! Jokes aside I'm glad someone is finally talking about Steven himself and how he isn't the pacifistic wimp memes make him out to be. Great job mate!

[@melofelo4484]

Steven never forgave or redeemed the diamonds. He gave them a chance to change and right their wrongs, and they took it. They aren’t owed forgiveness, they’re choosing to take a path that rights what they’ve done. That’s what he’s done with every conflict. Some characters took the chance and came out better for it (like peridot) and some didn’t (like eyeball). And some are still figuring it out (like Jasper). But the diamonds are on a PATH to be better.

[@AizakkuAnalysis]

I've literally been going through a Steven Universe rewatch. Now this gets uploaded 😂

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

"Conflicted feelings" is putting it mildly. I think my biggest takeaway is sheer disappointment: I loved the main series, even the filler and townie episodes (Joel Hodgson as the mayor was why I started watching it to begin with) and even some of the weak story elements. And the movie was a wonderful follow up. And then Future came along and basically made what came before it unwatchable. They gave us no lore or history or anything to supplement the main series, just a complicated mess of drama that undermined everyone's character development. They also plagiarized 2 different episodes of Adventure Time, "Don't Look" and "Abstract" for the finale, except Adventure Time did it so much better. Finn and Jake don't get hugs to cure them when they turned into monsters, their friends and family talk to them to help them process their feelings in a useful and mature way. And that's why I'm rewatching AT for the 50th time and I don't mind never going back to SU.

[@ajstudios9210]

You hit the nail on the head. He never forgave the diamonds. He showed them mercy. There is a big difference. He never forgave them. He just chose not to kill them.

[@sinartist6948]

for me, obvious example of "redeemed does not equal forgiven" is Sunset Shimmer in first two films of Equestria Girls. she's main antagonist in first film, does horrible things but gets her chance to be better. in second film, when she realized that what she did was wrong, everything seems okay so far. she's not a bully anymore, she has "friends" but people still despise her for what she did. even her "friends" constantly remind her about her past. because they did not forget and did not forgive

[@jomaq9233]

Don’t even get me started on the Uncle Grandpa stans who hate the trend of children’s animation “focusing too much on unneccesarily complicated lore” instead of something that’s “just simple and fun”

[@BoredomStudios]

Seems like a lot of people forget this is a kids show after all

[@benpodvia5744]

Doesn't excuse its flaws and shit. Bugger off.

[@somenerdpng]

Oh my god how is this the first video to say that the diamonds weren’t fogiven, I’ve said this for fucking years

[@VicMeep]

I'm currently watching the video but despite the... abundant amount of flaws and issues, I still do love the good and great things about the show despite it being overshadowed by all the bad writing. Including with some moments being very relatable with a scene I just rewatched today from a fan edit. I even found Steven's anger outbursts in Future to be related and kinda well done in some places. Outside of the times he almost killed his father and actually did kill someone. I'd be down with it coming back as long as it meant more time and care was taken into the writing.

[@King_Gum]

Steven did nothing wrong and I stand by that. I genuinely hate how so many people allow themselves to believe that violence should be the first and only solution to conflict. SU as a show rejects that idea, and I think that's part of why it got this reputation. We're obsessed with "hype" and "raw" characters and scenes, so of course a guy who actually tries to reason with people gets hate. Goku was going to let Freiza(who is way worse than the diamonds) live, and has yet to kill him post TOP, but because Goku likes fighting, he doesn't get the same reputation. It's like people decide to judge characters based on how much they like them, instead of what they actually do. Steven is a defensive character. His main weapon is a shield for Christ sake. He doesn't like fighting, so he's always gonna open with conversation because hey if it works great, and if it doesn't he knows how to handle himself in a fight. Like once he gets his powers under control I'm pretty sure the diamonds are the only people who actually ever give him a run for his money. And we've seen what happens when he lets go completely. I fucking wish more people would try talking things out instead of throwing hands, or grabbing weapons. So much life is wasted because people don't wanna be a pussy. So for me I love having a character who shows that pacifism isn't a bad thing. And honestly the universe is better off with morally reformed diamonds than dead diamonds. Instead of leaving a power vacuum, Steven managed to end the entire empire in an amicable way, save the corrupted gems, and help bring some shattered gems back. And all he has to do is occasionally deal with 3 people he doesn't like. He got the best possible solution because he didn't try to just swing his fists in anger even though he probably wanted to. The guy is allowed to have complicated feelings.

[@chasgalaxy6721]

For me the biggest issue when it came to forgiving enemies wasn't Steven (because lord knows he could hold a grudge) but more of the Gems, like when it comes to the Diamonds becoming good guys, although they never outright forgive them, there's not a single scene where anyone shares scepticism on their sudden change of hearts, but the worst offence was with Bluebird, the whole scenario around that episode had me thinking the Gems were being brainwashed or suffering from some sort of brain dead virus. Despite my own issues with this show, I do agree that the insinuation that Steven was a complete wimp throughout the show has been an underlying problem in the fandom

[@DefyReality-ll2cg]

Bluebird felt like such a waste of an episode.

[@SM-cv8sv]

The Gem have always been poorly thought out personality wise. Ever notice how when ever Connie is on the scene, the gems drop about 20 iq points in order for her to shine. They become less people and more a loose collection of tropes as the show goes on.

[@sumthinorother9615]

He’s kind of merciless, actually. He frees Peridot the first time, not because he cares about her, but because he thinks he can get information out of her. She says something about the cluster, and he thinks it sounds important. It just kind of works out from there. Everyone else he helps redeem is because he was hopelessly outmatched, and they would destroy his entire planet if he tried to fight them. That’s just how every major conflict is structured. Bismuth, of course, he fights and keeps imprisoned until Sapphire mentions all her friends are dead. So he obviously knew it would be safe to release her, he just chose not to, for some reason. He does sometimes try to heal his enemies, probably because it sucks to watch someone die. (Also I think he literally feels their pain, so that’s an incentive.) But after doing that, he did once do the “kicking someone out into deep space,” thing, so take it for what you will, I guess.

[@hypotheticaltapeworm]

Don't understand how people think Pink is so horrible. By far the least problematic diamond.

[@arthurfraga6903]

well, rebecca created her as a gray char, with bad actions and good ones. But pink was never bad, if the people read "the end of an era", they will see that pink is the pure ID itself, blue and yellow r EGO, and white is SUPEREGO.

[@guilhermeteodosio40]

Let's name shows and characters who were ruined by flanderization, I'll start: •My Hero Academia - the whole cast💀

[@pastellproductions6161]

This is my hot take. Steven Universe doesn't have standard PTSD. As a person with childhood trauma, he has some of the symptoms of PTSD, sure. But, in all actuality, he has C-PTSD. For those who don't know what that is, it is Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It's where you experience some of the symptoms of PTSD but you also experience more complex or extreme symptoms as well. CPTSD is usually caused by events that were or are ongoing, like childhood trauma. That lasted months or even years. While PTSD can be caused by just a singular event. Admittedly, not many know what C-PTSD is and so I understand why everyone says this way is misrepresented but it's not, it's just what the mass media thinks or even how the creators of the show wrote it to be. Some of the symptoms that are caused by C-PTSD that we see in Steven are; emotional dysregulation, a negative concept of one's self, questioning morals and values, being very distrusting of others and the world, and even being very angry, a loss of a belief system, avoidant behaviours, and intrusive thoughts, your relationships and daily function is also impaired to the point it becomes crippling. If you want to research more you are more than welcome to. I think it's just unfair when people say that how he is reacting isn't PTSD. Because it is, it's just a different form of it. It's just C-PTSD. The Symptoms of both are similar but C-PTSD can be enduring and be even more extreme than comparative to PTSD. I'm not looking to argue or anything, just looking to educate and maybe expand people's knowledge. :) Thank you for taking the time to read this if you did! :)

[@mimibreyes3532]

Its sad that he doesnt forgive his own mom, given that she really changed and grew from her early diamond days, being a totally different person:(

[@MunTheOddity]

I'm also guessing what contributes to this high degree of flanderization and scrutiny towards Steven's characters is the fact that the show is practically locked onto his perspective all throughout. His character writing is especially under some pressure as he is the eyes the show is largely played through. And very rarely throughout its tenure, often to its detriment, would the show deviate from his perspective. Often, we were unable to explore certain things unless Steven was there to give his two cents, which might've indirectly led some people to resent his presence. This combined with some of the show's most egregious moments happening from Steven's perspective and with Steven's initial rationale both likely contributes to the rain of flanderization and relatively harsh stances towards his character. Of course, this is only one factor that likely contributes to the internet's backlash towards Steven, among others.

[@bingobunny7862]

YES, THANK YOU. I fucking hate twitter dawg. The more flanderized the take, the more exposure it gets. So annoying