The Future for Non-Resident Elk Hunters in Colorado - A Discussion with Lane Walter

In this podcast episode, Cliff Gray and Lane Walker engage in a detailed discussion regarding the recent changes in Colorado hunting regulations, focusing on the shift from over-the-counter elk hunting to draw units. The conversation delves into the debate surrounding whether residents should retain over-the-counter hunting privileges while non-residents are restricted to draw tags. They analyze the recommendations put forth by Colorado Parks and Wildlife staff, the potential implications on elk herds, and the political landscape influencing hunting practices in Colorado. Lane, who actively participates in commission meetings, offers valuable insights.
Join Cliff and Lane as they navigate the intricacies of wildlife management and hunting regulations in Colorado. Subscribe to stay updated on future discussions covering hunting, conservation, and wildlife management.
Follow Lane Walter:
/ r2lane
Listen to the podcast here (links to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc...):
www.buzzsprout.com/2324546/share
#ColoradoHunting #ElkHunting #WildlifeConservation #HuntingRegulations #PursuitWithCliff
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[@IntenseAngler]

Excellent discussion guys. Very engaging. Cliff, congrats on the growth of your channel man... well deserved 👍

[@CliffGray]

thanks man, hope all is well

[@RussellSSmith]

Watching this took me back... it was during the 1950s when I laid on my grandmother's living room floor and looked at copies of the outdoor magazines with the pack strings moving across streams in the Rockies, that I dreamed of doing it... Now all these years later, going through some things in my late mother's belongings, I found a post card dated 1990 on which I wrote, "We're at Durango. Everything is white up here. We leave in the A.M. for timberline. We'll be 30 miles above Bayfield. I've dreamed about this all my life and now it happens."

[@ryanmontgomery4102]

Lived there for 7 years I sure miss those mtns

[@JMLLoera]

All y'all non-residents just need to move to Colorado. We need to change the demographics and get more hunter friendly voters.

[@lukewartman-io7jt]

Why would people leave the Midwest that’s pretty pro hunting where 130-185” bucks are common and they cost next to nothing to move to Colorado that is trying to take your rights away?

[@ColoradoStreaming]

That sounds like a great idea until you realize its $450,000 for a town house near the border of Kansas...

[@garrett2980]

Being OTC has always made Colorado a permanent backup option and option for folks who don't have to plan. When I was a resident, I never once hunted archery or rifle without running into guys regardless of how many miles we hiked. Crowding makes it very difficult to have an enjoyable hunt on public land. Lane is right on with OnX and GoHunt. It gives everyone confidence to get deep in the mountains.

[@masseyranch]

Most of the guy’s hunting public ground in CO aren’t even getting 1 1/2 miles from the trailheads. I think everyone equates trucks in the campground to dead elk and it’s not even close. There’s a ton of elk in CO and they are HARD to find because of how smart they are. Just because you aren’t seeing them doesn’t mean they aren’t there. Removing OTC options will destroy a family tradition for me I really hope they don’t take rifle away…

[@WesternReaper84]

If you're currently drawing a 1st rifle season tag with success, nothing is going to change for you as a resident. You guys really don't understand what is happening do you? lol Going to limited tags is the best thing that could EVER happen to you as residents.

[@GH-ru9kk]

The rifle OTC tags will disappear next. Honestly, I don’t mind. Less pressure = better experience when you finally get out there. All i see is complaints about too many hunters out there and when they make the tags harder to get they complain about that. Hunters are impossible to please.

[@CliffGray]

Yeah, I think that is the nature of public resources. Constant give and take to different groups with an interest.

[@normankaster917]

Spot on guys.....i really appreciate the work you are putting into introducing/ informing us on the issues.

[@johng6221]

Thanks for what you do Cliff. You really are catching on. Good luck!,

[@striderwolf687]

@cliffgrey - Awesome interview! Love this being on podcast! Your last interviews, topics discussed, different perspectives have been so great. Not often do shows have perspective from a guide, multiple guides, resident, lawyer/trust, non-resident, etc. Thank you! Can’t wait for more interviews and more perspectives and talks on all these changes, ballot issues and how this all could affect the North American model over the next 20-30 years.

[@CliffGray]

thanks man!

[@tommarymarking1579]

Stopped going to CO due to too much pushback by locals who damage my vehicle and deliberately harass me while I hunt. I'm there for an outdoor experience and that has ruined it for me. I've always been very respectful to the locals and hunt clean and leave no footprint when I camp, but just being a NR had them pissed off. I look elsewhere now.

[@Mountainghost72]

As a lifetime, Colorado native, I went from being able to deer hunt every year, & almost statewide, to going to being able to maybe hunt them every two year's, well some non residents get to hunt whitetail & shoot multiple deer a year in some states, let's be honest, Colorado treats there residents that hunt like shit, I personally feel lifelong residents should be able to draw certain deer and elk tags that usually take 2-3 points every year, the over population & land developers & the politicians & politics are the real enemy of those that hunt Colorado, not residents vs non-residents

[@davisstellman]

I moved out here to CO as a traditional bow hunter for school. Elk hunting is a resource that garners a ton of money for the state to protect these animals and manage them. Removing tag sales is going to lower the money that can go towards managing them so this is a double edged sword. I also wonder if it's wise to be limiting OTC tags on archery rather than rifle. Is it other bowhunters that are raising this feud or is it trying to bowhunt with muzzleloaders and a riflehunters nearby? I'm a traditional bowhunter and ran into some people but I never had the impression I was being crowded during the last season. Not only that, but I think most people complaining probably don't go more than a mile and a half into the GMU. The more people complain the more CPW will hurt the entirety of the hunting community as a whole is what I see happening, maybe others see it differently.

[@justinbradley7695]

Residents pay $66 to NR $800 for an elk tag. Cut NR tags all you want but you better close that gap. CPW would tank without NR hunters.

[@reterwilliger]

Awesome discussion and great points made Cliff! I am in agreement with your guy's thinking across the board! Lane, I am sure are paths will cross too perhaps at Sportsman's Day at the Capital! I am wired into CRWM work and volunteer to help where I can! Lastly, I plan to share this around on social media too as many can benefit from a listen!

[@LaneWalterProductions]

I’ll be there and look forward to meeting you.

[@CliffGray]

thanks man! hope all is well

[@AC-ut8pl]

Personally, I think outdoor recreation such as hikers and mountain bikers plays a huge role in the overcrowding issue at trailheads. When I hunted Colorado early archery the trailheads were packed with hikers and mountain bikers.

[@tommarymarking1579]

CA banned lion hunting, stopped dogs for bear hunting, my entire region became Redwood Nat. Park so all my duck hunting and game hunting ended, have put in for elk here for 50 years and never gotten a tag...tried to support other States but I get why they want to restrict out of state hunters and limit NR. I get it and don't blame them...all the western states are getting crowded with hunters...It won't get any better for us NR hunters. Good discussion. I've hunted for over six decades and see a lot of changes all over the west.

[@justsnuggle]

Good idea I think I'll take my fall vacations and just start setting up camp and hiking through Colorado taking pictures of elk during hunting season since they don't want me they're hunting.

[@willnorholm1255]

CO is the only state that offers OTC tags to non-residents. Just because OTC tags will most likely be limited for non-residents in the future, doesn't mean non-residents won't be able to come and hunt. It just means they'll have to plan. What worries me is that in CO the game commission is run by anti-hunters. Take away the money and then they'll try to ban hunting altogether. This their goal. Thank God for Russell J. Gould. But yeah, the people running CO parks and Wildlife (the wildlife commission) are only concerned about money. They obviously don't care about the wildlife or they wouldn't have allowed the wolf reintroduction on the ballot. I remember in 2002 they tried to ban prairie dog hunting, but the state stepped in and said that this is a wildlife agency issue, and that they wouldn't allow it on the ballot. Hmmm, I wonder what changed? Could it be that they are all fraudulent!? According to Russell they are. Where are their oaths of office? I'm serious. Watch Russell's channel and find out...

[@travisjones1241]

Nonresident Turkey license is $184, NR Elk is $806.... 8% increase in tags purchased is overcrowding but 10% decrease in tags allocated is nothing and you won't even notice it on top of already decreasing NR tags 10%.... Anyone complaining about overcrowding in OTC units isn't leaving the truck or trail and if you're seeing hikers that only confirms it. Expanding on a broken point system to somehow make it better, brilliant idea. CO will be the billboard for point creep holding hands with WY. It will say "How do we get rid of hunters but keep the revenue? Everyone is in the draw now!" All OTC units should go to a capped random draw with no qualifying license or points.

[@sw5315]

I guarantee this has to do with the big game survey. I don’t know anyone who says there isn’t heavy pressure during the survey.

[@jacobharris1185]

Wish CO had spring bear season! I like the potential to have a spring bear hunt adventure and maybe learning an area at the same time to come back and Elk and Mule Deer later.

[@Jsnyder6353]

As an oklahoman. I was really wanting to OTC Archery Elk this year but now im thinking id rather just build points in oklahoma as it sounds ill probably not see elk with otc colorado tag eh?

[@lukevanlanen8828]

I mean, there are a ton of elk in colorado. Just don't sleep in, and then run around blowing on a tube all day. Go hunt hard you'll see elk.

[@justincowley84]

I hunted otc bow 3 days and seen 12. 4 were bulls

[@user-eg8hb8xt3j]

we have a good system in Canada . I hunt elk in bc and if you’re from Alberta or any other province you can’t hunt here without a resident like myself getting a permit to accompany the hunter . They can buy tags for whatever species but they need a resident accompanying them and only them. If anyone can just drive up and buy a tag from whatever region they live we wouldn’t have over the counter for long . The animals would be hunted into a draw system . I guide here as well and I think bc manages its game quite well minus the grizzly ban . That was left wing government tho , not bc wildlife.

[@phillipwoltemath1024]

Unfortunately these changes are what's necessary to protect a resource. Being a non resident I don't want to lose the opportunity, but I get it. The way Colorado's population is growing they will have to eventually cap the resident tags as well. If tomorrow everyone had to hunt to survive, there just aren't enough animals for everyone. In my opinion I think all states need to get rid of the depridation tags. We have all heard the people complaining that there are too many animals and yet they refuse to let anyone hunt on their land. I think that local outfitters should be able to work with those land owners to cut down those heards or at least be able to add pressure on the private to push the animals back towards where they can be hunted. I also like the outfitter allowed tags that can still be available for non residents.

[@ianwood5916]

"Draw" for NR for all seasons. Make it easy to get, but there needs to be a way to limit NR and control what units are hunted. There are units that get slammed 10x than others during the OTC seasons. CO needs to take care of its Residents first, just like every other state in the country does for its res hunters. CPW has been in the black by MILLIONS for years and can cut the tags back. Too much pressure, people everywhere.

[@cr250racer09]

It was $121.07 as a non for elk application this year.

[@LaneWalterProductions]

As a resident it was $270.20 just for me to apply and get points (all big game apps)… it’s cheaper for me to apply for Arizona, Nevada or Utah as a non resident 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@lukewartman-io7jt]

@@LaneWalterProductionsI have the same complaint in Indiana with resident fees. It’s cheaper for me to hunt and fish in Michigan as a non resident than it is for me to hunt and fish my home state

[@cabinetmunch]

I realize this is not part of the current proposed management plan, but I would like your thoughts on requiring “A” list tag holders to use their points no matter how the “A” list tag is obtained. I do not think OTC and second choice tag holders with an “A” list tag should be able to bank points while holding a tag.

[@WesternReaper84]

I agree. Anyone with an A-list tag should not be able to have points.

[@ianwood5916]

Popular sentiment on Rokslide

[@CliffGray]

Yes. I agree with this. I personally believe that point systems should be a bidding system. You can "bid" x amount of points when you put in for the draw. I also believe you should be able to transfer them to your kids.

[@colepriceguitar1153]

I think residents should get otc and non residents should be all draw but residents should pay about 50-80 dollars more and non residents 100-150 less. That seems fair. 100 to 130 is not much for a resident to pay for an elk tag.

[@desperado8605]

As much as this is going to make it harder for me to get a tag i completely understand the thought process. So glad Indiana spent have draw tags lol

[@outdoorproductreview]

They screwed us in area 74. Draw only for bulls in archery because of the breeding lol. Hell the pressure is from all the mountain bikers, Colorado trail hikers, and day hikers around there. Had a lady purposely ruin a stock I was doing on a buck opening day.

[@arlanjohnson8841]

Are they cutting any elk tag allocations for the muzzleloader season?

[@arlanjohnson8841]

Myself and a buddy are planning a muzzleloader elk hunt in 2027, is this a viable option?

[@RussellSSmith]

There was mention about how the CPWD had 56mil excess $ several years ago and that the money came from a change in policy... I heard this mentioned back in those days yet requested the budget sheets and never found where the money came from... I know in the recent meeting they said that 100,000 non-res hunters last year produced 56mil and 250,000 resident hunters produced 10mil. I do understand the crowding - after hunting the West Slope with my Colorado friends for the last 23 years. But it is the original excess monies that should be defined because there was a lot of money thrown around (grown on taxpayer trees?) back during those times. No matter what happens this year it will probably leave the CPWD with an unfunded liability for 2025 - 2029.

[@WesternReaper84]

They should be opening up more land to hunt with that 56 million surplus. Can you imagine how many raches they could lease with that kind of money?

[@RussellSSmith]

@@WesternReaper84 The 56 would have been one time money - and it takes recurring year after year money to pay salaries and benefits for their employees. Over the last several years I've heard them say they hired this one and that one but the bosses will have to make some tough decisions over the next year - or come up with new revenue with decisions on the table. I am still interested in where the first excess money came from... never found where in the financial sheets.

[@WesternReaper84]

@@RussellSSmith Are you defending these a$$holes? lol

[@chriswright3616]

Yea let’s also add the fact that wolfs have been introduced into Colorado. Wolfs were already here and then they went and added more.

[@dw6090]

Worry about the elk , but u put wolves in , how that work. It doesn't

[@striderwolf687]

It gets better! Ballot issue likely coming to ban mountain lion hunting too. Badgers being reintroduced. I am waiting for grizzlies!

[@WesternReaper84]

@@striderwolf687 Yet, Colorado residents are begging for our hard earned $ to support the opposition of these. In the next breath they are screaming to cut our tags. LOL!!!! Its hilarious. Biting the hand that has been feeding them for years.

[@CliffGray]

this is an important topic that I'd like to discuss with someone in the know... how much of RMEF and similar nonprofits are supported by non western state residents

[@striderwolf687]

@@CliffGray seems like this is becoming more and more a hot topic. I had no idea about a few of these items until I heard it on Randy Newberg’s channel, Processed Based Hunter and the great stuff on you channel and Podcasts with others. I think we all know about the wolves, but a lot more is in the works. Looking forward to more info and it’s likely something all hunters of all states should be in the know about as other states could copy passed legislation if it’s seen as setting precedent.

[@knuckledragger2412]

1. I've bought the add on bear tag for several years. Been at full draw twice and watched them walk. Im not gonna stop elk hunting and have to deal with meat for a small bear. Definitely not going to pay more for it, im not even trying to hunt them in September. Its just an opportunity that might happen. 2. Im totally cool with less tags for better opportunities. I already implement the cow tag opportunities in several states. 3. Hunting was 10 ×' better when i started archery hunting colorado in 2010. Night and day difference. 4. Its crazy to involve politics or feelings in the biology of species management. Humans have changed the habitat for every species on the planet. Proper management is more important than ever. Predators other than humans hunt like humans without rules. Bad idea. I hate to say it, unless there is a huge change in thinking or society hunting is done for. Just a matter of time😔

[@WesternReaper84]

When I started elk hunting in Colorado in the OTC units 25 years ago it was a COMPLETLEY different experience. If you want to see a real shit show wait until they push to legalize crossbows in Colorado. lol Thats going to be the final nail in the proverbial coffin for the archery season.

[@knuckledragger2412]

yeah here in Michigan they have already done it. First it was for hunters with disabilities which i agree with. Now its a choice. Most hunters i know that use a crossbow is because they are too lazy to practice, its much easier. To each their own, but a crossbow is not archery IMO. Its probably better for the animal i would say, cleaner kills for most hunters. Too often hunters will attempt to kill outside of their effective range. Thats a lack of discipline. One has to be honest with themselves. Close the distance to your effective range, you owe your quarry that at the very least.

[@WesternReaper84]

@@knuckledragger2412 Agree on the lazy hunters for sure. Generally speaking, there isnt a group of people nationwide who are lazier than crossbow hunters.

[@Jimbowiejr]

$104 for small game l

[@bryanspeller]

Residents should retain OTC opportunities, non residents draw.

[@justsnuggle]

Whatever Colorado, I hope you enjoy not getting all those inflated non-resident tags, then they'll be whining because there's not enough money and they will increase the cost on residents. Brilliant.

[@LynnKern-cm1zv]

Well I’m sorry guy’s but us out of staters also paid for all of the federal lands inColorado , we already spend 4-times as much as you in sTATERS ..😮😢

[@user-cs5up9qx8s]

Montana will be the last good hunting state. Then we will ALL have to move to canada to hunt.

[@TheWildFrontier]

Canada has no animals left 😢 plus our government leaders are communist dictators

[@Jimbowiejr]

Federal land should be 50/50 since Colorado, doesn't own the land. Colorado owned land could be resident only. Washington can change who manages wildlife if enough hunters protest. Colorado is just one of the states restricting out of state hunters. This movement has already started because it's our land. Having said what I've been hearing, I own a cabin, cars, and stay in southern Colorado 6 months a yr plus I bow hunted since 1991 so I'm no rookie. Going full draw without any more restrictions on non residents would be fair. If restritions happens I'll just become a resident since the cabin is the only house in my name. Adding wolf was bull crap.

[@carryingfire286]

Can I stay at your cabin every once in a while? -resident

[@LaneWalterProductions]

We talk about this in the podcast, just because the animal lives on “your land” does not mean that you own or get to hunt that animal. The animal are entrusted and owned by the state, this have been upheld in federal court. Elk come onto my property all of the time but I never get to hunt them. Using your augment I could shoot an elk everyday because it’s “on my land”

[@danlane2547]

It's not an issue of land, but of the animals. The animals are a state-managed resource for the benefit of the state's residents under the public trust doctrine. This is codified in law and precidential court decisions.

[@Jimbowiejr]

I realized that it's about the animals but the idea is after federal control happens they will pay the states to operate under their control. It's being discussed incase states go to far in controlling the animals/land that's owned by every American, not just the state.

[@danlane2547]

@@Jimbowiejr that doesn't make any sense. You can't lump land and wildlife together. Wildlife, as a state managed resource, are not owned by every American. They are the "property" of the state's residents. The state can do whatever it wants in this area without the consideration of non-residents because the state is mandated to act on behalf of its residents and nobody else. It's the same reason for why game wardens can legally enter private property within the bounds of performing their work duties.

[@bryanmoorefield8890]

Hunted archery for 15 years and I have never ran into anyone hunting. I hunt wilderness area only walk in allowed. Horses and lamas are ok. My unit is draw now so apply for mule deer and elk and have always drawn one of them. 67 now so not to many years left for backpacking in. 🏹🏹🏔️