The Future of Pinball? AtGames Legends 4K EVT OTG (PART 3)

[@pkhsiung304]

Let's get those 1.5K Likes!!! Yes we are in!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you so much PK! For those that don't know, PK is the CEO of AtGames and again has generously agreed if this video hits 1,500 likes to giveaway some Legends 4K table packs!

[@arcadetalk]

I think you guys should do a poll to see what art goes on this awesome 4k machine.

[@zdirienz]

Hey, PK. I wanted to ask if AtGames was still working to get more real life table recreations licensed? (i.e. tables like Legends of Valhalla, Woah Nellie! Big Juicy Melons, Cosmic Carnival, maybe more Gottlieb, etc.) Or, alternatively, licensing some of the best original VPIN creations? (i.e. Volkan: Steel & Metal Works, Blood Machines, etc) Just curious if you could speak on any of that at present? Though it must be said that your relationship with Magic Pixel has been great, and I would love to see them take on more IPs if that’s the current strategy!

[@pkhsiung304]

ALP Owners have responded with enthusiasm to our original content (Natural History, Dr. Seuss, Taito) and encouaged us to focus on producing more. We have in the pipeline Natural History 2, Natural History 3, Rare (Ocean of Thieves, Killer Instinct) coming to Legends HD and Legends 4K devices in 2024.

[@arcadetalk]

@pkhsiung304 that is great to here. I think you guys at Atgames do a great job on your original tables.

[@goofyfoot390]

Going the extra mile buying a new computer to demo this is much appreciated! I hope they are letting you keep or giving you a 4K pin for your dedication to this review ❤

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you GoofyFoot! I honestly don't know the plans for this machine. Last I heard, I was supposed to ship it off to AtGames Engineering (that was about 2 weeks ago it should have happened). I really hope AtGames doesn't see this post LOL

[@goofyfoot390]

@@WagnersTechTalk If I win the raffle for the ALP4K it’s all yours. You have more than earned it with all the tech support you’ve provided over the years! 👍

[@ien2023]

Get a tower dont get a laptop.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

@@goofyfoot390That is incredibly kind of you to say, but I couldn't accept it. Whomever gets picked will be the exclusive winner of the 4KP.

[@rushmore3927]

@@ien2023 Yep, hhndreds less money for more performance. Also less power-on hassle for a cab. He might be using it for other stuff too though.

[@BrigetteSinging]

Great job shotting this in 4K. I could really see how dramatic the difference is between the older and newer machines!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you, still have a lot to learn but it definitely made sense for this series to shoot in 4K. I appreciate your kind comment!

[@chaos120]

thank you for testing OTG duration stability!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Very welcome, didn't forget the question!

[@DannyWelch]

Thanks for sharing. I'm SOOOO excited and can't wait to upgrade to the 4KP! Those tables just look so crisp.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Very welcome and thank you for watching! They do look beautiful 😎

[@zorglub667]

it really seems to be a super nice machine. definetly the closest to the ultimate all in one package at a (hopefully) affordable price. considering how Atgames managed to beat the arcade1up competition so clearly with their dedication to this platform, despite arcade1up having all the fancy licenses, it is at this point that i would really hope that the holders of said licenses rethink their position. Atgames would definetly deserve to become the new official partner and have those games run natively on their platform. can it be done? i would argue, if the machine is capable of playing the magixpixel stuff, theres no reason why it shouldnt also play at least fx3 level tables.

[@nerdloftgaming]

Jon, you are the man! So thorough with the coverage, especially the lag test. There’s no denying this will be a fantastic vpin for those wanting to jump in. What I’m most excited about is the new original tables running off the new board. u/dudemo would have been real excited about this one 😢

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you so much! I'm very excited about the Legends 4K tables too. They play beautifully, no muss no fuss. I wish dudemo was here to see it 😰 I miss that guy.

[@JPdelaGhetto]

Thank you for all the Indepth testing and coverage of this machine! I'm still not entirely sure I'd even considering replacing mine for the new 4K model, but very curious on what the 4K upgrade boards will do. Hopefully AtGames lets you test those out as well 🙂

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Very welcome! I honestly don't know much at all about the upgrade board at this point (other than what I posted on the news page during the NOD announcement). Hopefully we'll hear more about that at some point.

[@paulcleary8088]

I have my own 1440p dual screen pinball setup that converts to my workstation, but I would love a dedicated setup. This seems perfect.

[@misterunspoken]

Thanks for all your hard work on the videos and I hope this small token helps in paying off that PC!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Wow, you don't know how much I appreciate that! You're the 2nd person to ever use that "Thanks" button. It really means a lot, very kind of you! ❤

[@misterunspoken]

@@WagnersTechTalk Of course , like I said I appreciate the effort you put in and sacrificing your own money to do that is nice of you. Glad to help.

[@alphacat9302]

You explain all this so well.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you, I appreciate it!

[@11BravoMike]

Your shots of the tables looked fantastic! Can't wait to see the wotg latency. That would make these tables incredibly competitive if the default hardware offers low latency wireless.🔥🔥🔥 Awesome video as usual Wagner.👍

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you, I'm curious about wotg also!

[@misterunspoken]

@WagnersTechTalk I called you a stud in the last video and I have to continue with that line of thinking after this video! You're a bit crazier than I am, I'd have been reluctant to drop 2k on a gaming PC to test all this, but you did it! I am truly impressed at the dedication you showed with this testing and the prying open of the wallet! The fact that we can run OTG and experience almost no lag is a great relief and I still think the decisions they made for 4K @ 60hz is the right move at this time, if only for keeping costs low. The "ghosting" effect seems hardly discernible at least in your videos and I'm sure in person it's even less obvious. I tried an A1up pinball table and it ghosted constantly. I don't see anything at that level. The only thing that bugs me about this device is the 4k pinball packs having to be repurchased. I think that sucks for people who invested hundreds into the packs. They should offer some kind of an upgrade option at a lower cost or even tie it into if you buy extended support or are an LPO member you get the free upgrades. Seems incredibly anti-consumer to force them to re-buy packs but that just my opinion. What do you think about that?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

LOL, not sure about the stud part, crazy - highly likely :) I had the choice, stop here or continue. I was semi-smart about it, I did purchase the support agreement that allows me to return the PC within a 60-day period. Since it was an Open box, I was reluctant to purchase it but the extension made me more comfortable. If it works out, I'll keep it. I don't buy things with the intent to return them and it is plenty powerful. The laptop I use for video editing could benefit from the faster CPU/GPU. I may swap the two at some point. Agree also, the decision to go with 4K 60Hz makes the most sense. Let's say, the opposite were true. How many more folks would have wished for 4K instead of 120Hz? It's a definite step up, the game play is smooth and the displays look even better in-person. I definitely understand your concern about having to re-purchase the pinball packs. I can't count how many times I've re-purchased Zen tables on Xbox 360, Tablets, Phones, PC's (Epic+Steam), etc. I keep doing it because I love those tables and want to play them everywhere! If the AtGames tables were a straight port from HD to 4K (with no changes), I'd fully agree. But, it's more than just the artwork in 4K. Legends 4K format includes all-new artwork in 4K, full backglass art, DMD art, global leaderboard integration, integration into the SSF kit, solenoids, more that I'm likely missing and needs to be done for nearly 200 tables. Obviously, it takes a lot of hard work and time to do that and the engineers, Ip holders, etc. need to get paid for their work. I can see why AtGames made this decision, I think all things considered you and I would as well.

[@misterunspoken]

@@WagnersTechTalk You make a valid point about the effort needed to update them and the reason why they are going to charge for them. I do hope they do something for LPO members though as an added benefit. I guess we'll wait and see what they do after release. Thanks for the reply.

[@cwescrab]

How would you compare the flipper lag with the new 4kalp vs the hdalp with otg? People are complaining about the lag with the 4kalp at the expo show running the adams family table but I’m guessing in otg it’s fine going by your video.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

@@cwescrab None of the machines at the expo were running via OTG, all were running from the PCB in the machine. As mentioned in this video : kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4rLo5Jtmt6khdk yes, there is flipper lag with The Addams Family table (only). However, I'm not personally concerned about it at this point. I spoke with Zen about this issue, it's pretty clear (to me) it is a priority for them to improve that experience. What was shown on the floor was a very early build. The partnership was just announced in Sept., there is more work to be done there. I'm sure Zen will make sure it's solid or at least performing much better by the time they ship.

[@thunderbird233]

Appreciate the thorough reviews regarding the legends 4K👍🏼

[@WagnersTechTalk]

My pleasure, thank you for watching!

[@bupp291]

Thank you for these awesome videos and for going the extra mile with the new PC! I hope it serves you well!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Very welcome, I appreciate you checking them out! I'm liking this laptop, BB jacked the price up another $500 after I bought it, so I guess it was meant to be. (Link if curious: www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-rog-zephyrus-m16-16-240hz-gaming-laptop-qhd-intel-13th-gen-core-i9-with-16gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-1tb-ssd-off-black/6535501.p?skuId=6535501 ). When I bought it, I did get the 2-year support contract so if anything goes wrong I can get it fixed (it was an open box). Also, if anything major goes wrong, I can return it within 2 months after purchase. That did add about $200 to the price.

[@rosshart5880]

I wouldn’t celebrate the latency and say it’s a “non-issue”. It’s not input lag you’re experiencing, it’s video processing lag. The At games machine is processing the HDMI input and then outputting that processed signal back out. It does seem better on the 4k version, but it’s still noticeable.

[@MichaelSmith-fd9ec]

If they over price this (the fact you bought a 1700 PC doesn’t excite me) I’m saving for a Stern Table.

[@user-qz8ry8vw8l]

Thanks for the video. Thats the problem. Once you play in real 4K OTG on PC you will find that you don't want native anymore, especially if you use pinup with visual pinball/future/fx3/zaccaria

[@servadac137]

Thanks John, excellent presentation once again ! The ssfx will be called the Ross board ! Lol

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Much appreciated, thank you for watching! The ssf kit isn't Ross, good guess :) There are hints in Part 1-3. I hid them well, wanted to make this little puzzle game fun. Something new to try out. I will admit, I might have made it too hard to find.

[@djm2373]

So excited !!

[@levilinseman4736]

Great video my friend! I am really excited to play this machine. Your videos have helped sparked my interest in this hobby and I just want to say thank you for sharing. you have been a tremendous help

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you and happy to hear the videos have been helpful to you! You're very welcome, I'm super excited about the 4KP and can't wait for others to experience it.

[@GlenBaisley]

It would be great if you could show what the latency is side by side on the current ALP versus the new one for a comparison both in 1080p versus 1080p and 1080p versus 4K. That would be a true comparison to see if this improves latency.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you for your feedback on this! I did think about doing that comparison, but since this video is on the 4KP those that are new could easily get confused and misunderstand. May be something we take a look at later, but didn't think it made sense for this video which is exclusively on the 4KP.

[@bsinreallife]

@@WagnersTechTalkI suspect many here are HD owners and really interested in latency comparison between the two using the same test methodology/laptop/etc. I for one, and many others who sample otg on my HD can’t get passed the latency for it to feel good. I read all the best practice guides, with and without mapping, advanced video driver settings and under optimal configurations the HD is just too laggy for the casual user. Maybe a rainy day test? Great content as usual, keep up the great work!

[@GlenBaisley]

@@WagnersTechTalk I think it is relevant because if there is improved latency on the 4K version that's an additional incentive for customers to upgrade to the new cabinet. I have had issues with OTG flipper lag on my ALP and would upgrade without hesitation if there was reduced latency.

[@djm2373]

You know what would be really amazing is what if at games release this 4K 32 inch playfield model. In 2024 they release the deluxe version with a 42 or 43 inch playfield. More along the lines of a full size in 4K. They could have the 32” and the 43”. Would be insane !

[@WagnersTechTalk]

That would be pretty cool, but honestly this machine is the perfect size for me. Anything much larger would take up a good portion of my room. But, may not be an issue for others and I'm all about everyone having options. Never know!

[@Nerbil]

Great video, again. Thanks for the testing details. This 4K pinball looks great.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@8-bit_Informer]

Well done again!! Your videos are so thorough. I appreciate them so much. Thank you.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

You are so welcome!

[@TheBigdogal]

They just announced the 4kp!!! Preorder september 22 for 1099USD!!! And a partnership with Zen Studios!!! What a day!!!!!!!

[@petermacnab1871]

Nice video ! I hope they get rid of the need to constantly log in

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you! So far, so good on that front but still too early to be positive.

[@magius74]

Great Job on these videos Jon, appreciate all the info, it helps so much for making the decision to upgrade. I do have a request tho. In the next video could you circle back briefly to OTG and mention how the accelerometer works for nudging? The accelerometer on the original ALP was very problematic and I have read alot of people do not use it. I was only able to make mine somewhat usable by physically repositioning the hardware in my cabinet. I am hoping it is improved in this new 4k system.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you, very welcome! In this v1.0 cabinet, I can't reduce the strength of the solenoids or turn them off (it can be adjusted in software on later models v1.1/1.2). So, as soon as the flipper fires, it's going to trigger the accelerometer. So, may not be able to demonstrate this. I was asked about this in another comment also.

[@rushmore3927]

Great stuff! Just think if 120 Hz as well😂 You need a serious rig to play 4K 120hz or more. Most physics engines I think are locked at 60 anyway.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

LOL, yep not about to go buy another PC to test 120Hz anytime soon. I need to pay this one off first.

[@darianstaruk237]

I'm interested to learn what their plans are for the optional Atgames branded haptics upgrade kit, and specifically whether it will come with an easy port for connecting the separate audio jack for leveraging the enhanced SSF in VPX. That's the only port that appears to be missing from the back in this EVT unit.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Don't have any details on the SSF kit aside from what was shared in the hardware video. If I'm able to show it in the future, I certainly will.

[@Forsaykin]

Always great info on WTT. Thanks Jon!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

My pleasure!

[@bertplatini2249]

Nice review john. Aim all in!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you, more to come!

[@QuietStorm3007]

Thank you for another detailed video. I'm as excited as that Jonah Hill gif 😂.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

LOL, I love that gif. I appreciate ya watching!

[@BS55331]

Great video Jon! For part 4 would it be possible to cycle through some tables showing the play field, back glass and DMD simultaneously? No real reason, just want to see how cool they look as a whole. Also would love to see how the original Jurassic Park pinball machine looks through OTG (I believe its on VP9). Can't wait to preorder.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I'll see what I can do in Part 4, no promises though.

[@DidYouReadEULA]

Thanks for pulling out the wallet for this video, great job as usual!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Very welcome and thank you! It hurt but the show must go on!

[@jeffrule465]

Awesome work and thanks for purchasing a laptop!!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you, the show had to go on!

[@jombeemeanstroke6426]

another fantastic video! thank you

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@dannymeilin]

thank you for giving us the information before the machines come out.

[@KilllerPenguins]

Woooo! Great stuff!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@entertainmentdeals1320]

Great video, looking forward to part 4.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Part 4 was released this morning, hope you enjoy it too!

[@Unleaze]

Getting more hyped every part do kinda wonder about the price😂

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Price is the #1 question and something I wish I knew. As soon as I know, I'll shout it from the rooftops. Or make a short video, yeah on second thought a short might be heard a little better 😬

[@isometrixk]

Subscribed! Thank you so much for this series. Are there enough AtGames controls to easily navigate PinballFX software or are you using a front-end to navigate through all your tables? I gave away my diy virtual pinball table because of the latency issue. I have a real pinball machine but I think I might trade for this! I'm guessing $2,400 when it comes out.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you for the sub, I appreciate your support! There are enough buttons that you can navigate FX. However, my recommendation would be to pickup the Arcade Control Panel for use with the 4KP. I'm not making any hardware mods to this machine, it's not mine. However, the ACP works on both ALP HD and 4KP. Added an accessories section here: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Accessories with a little more information. No idea on pricing yet, hopefully it will be much less than your example.

[@andymcdandycdn6808]

Great review series. I don't own any AtGames products but am looking forward to getting this one. I just wish they would include the arcade controller deck plus I'm not even sure if it will be available in Canada.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you so much! It's a lot of fun, but a ton of work 😎 By not including the Arcade Control Panel, that shaves some off the cost of the machine. Some are going to want it, others won't care for it. I personally feel it's a must-have accessory. For Canada shipment, I think there are some 3rd party shipping companies that others have used but I know very little about that.

[@andymcdandycdn6808]

@@WagnersTechTalk it would be be nice if they offered three versions or for an extra fee, preinstall the extra add-ons a customer wants. Any way, I look forward to part 4.

[@travis-n-joy]

I love this video review series and I will definitely be buying this 4k table. But my biggest complaint with virtual pinball is still the uncanny valley of unrealistic ball movement compared to the behavior of a real machine. I hope that some of the physics can be modified or adjusted, if not on the factory games, at least on the OTG games. That being said, when I watch your video at 90% speed, the ball weight and gravity do seem more realistic, but at the same time it really shows how exaggerated some of the ball movements are that make it obvious that it is not real physics. Thanks again for this review as it really showcased everything I wanted to know.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Very welcome, thank you for watching and your kind feedback! Definitely appreciated!

[@arcadetalk]

There is not much latency at all and it seems to be the same on all 3. Another great video Jon.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you!

[@dalecummins689]

Very impressive, I've shared your page and let us hope for the 1500 likes. Maybe the other prize can be the motherboard/CPU upgrade to the existing ATGames pinball machine. 🤞

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you, the more it's shared the greater the chances of reaching 1,500 likes! Definitely going to be interesting to watch.

[@greazer1909]

Great video as always, it would be nice if we could plug, our PlayStation 5 into this and get our 4K pinball that way on here,, I don’t think controls be much of an issue with the three screens would definitely be a problem.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you! I don't own a PS5, I have no clue there. Would be pretty cool though if it was possible.

[@ericlintemuth6398]

The tables look so good in 4K, but, Im nervous about having to spend what you did for a computer, plus the price they will put on this. It will be a 3K machine. Time to start saving my hard earned cash.

[@curtwiederhoeft6846]

You can build a desktop for significantly less than John paid for that laptop. In March, after the original announcement, I was able to pick up a slightly used home built, liquid-cooled i7 with 16 GB RAM and an RTX 3080 video card (and 3 SDDs, one of them NVMe) for $900.

[@rushmore3927]

I have a 2060 in another desktop, that will swap with my current 1650 that is in my pinball desktop. 600W power supply in it, so should be good. Future and Visual pinball are GPU heavy.

[@potatochipz3097]

When is Atgames going to include the upgraded components so you don’t have to connect a PC with all those cables just to access all the good Zen tables from pinball FX and other platforms. Should be just plug and play imo. Great video btw Wagner. 👍😀

[@gmee123]

I Bought one of the first gen tables, I was soooo disappointed in the end result. I was used to playing VPX on my pc with the keyboard for my buttons and going from that to the Atgame legend, the latency was hideous and no matter what advice I tried, nothing took care of flipper lag or the screen quality issues. Dumping this and building my own created a whole new level of love. For any serious vpin players, do yourself a favor and just build your own from scratch. You will 100% not regret it! ZERO noticable flipper lag and the LG screen with GSYNC is on a whole new level.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Man that would be sweet indeed, maybe someday. Thank you brother!

[@potatochipz3097]

@@gmee123 good points to think about. What about online leaderboards ? Part of the fun is playing with a community rather than a closed machine. Can you still leverage online game play with this setup ?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Yes of course, that's in Part 2. You'll see the leaderboard on the backglass display (you can turn that off, if you want).

[@TheBigb1973]

Jon, will you be making a detailed tutorial soon on how to hook this up via a desktop pc? Also the parts I need?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I have most of the stuff you'll need listed here: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4k/#Part_3_OTG . I do plan to come back to additional guides on using the production machine with OTG+SSF. However, I've created four AtGames videos in a row and have a lot of other content I want to produce and being asked of me. I will be coming back to OTG, after I do. As this is a part-time hobby, I can't tell you exactly when that will be.

[@DidYouReadEULA]

Hope all these options are in the final build, if so, AtGames isn't playing around!! Streaming OTG!!!!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Actually, the production model will have more. In this early v1.0 model, I can't adjust the solenoid strength but in v1.1/1.2 you can via software control.

[@DidYouReadEULA]

Cool!@@WagnersTechTalk

[@carlo1132]

Great Stuff Jon. I have a new HP Omen 45L that was a refurb off bay but was new in box and its a great computer for this purpose, cost around 1500 with 12900k and 3080ti. Lenovo has some great gaming pc's on bay super cheap with even better specs/prices, but I wanted this specific computer/case. When thinking about a pc dedicated for this purpose I was hoping to find a mini pc with some horsepower to run 4k, such as AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS based mini pc but I am not so sure it would be up to snuff. Hopefully more information will be out on requirements to run these tables on the ALP 4k, I'm thinking 1660 Super isn't going to cut it on my other machine!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

The specs of your machine "seem like" you'll be fine. If you have 3 monitors hanging around, one being 4K connect them all up and see how it performs as a quick test (or even, just the one 4K display). If you connect one for the backglass and dmd, be sure to set the Hz to 60. Windows will try to set it for 30Hz and your test will be skewed. I made that mistake -once.

[@joeyjojojunior4886]

Looks pretty promising. How are the haptics and plunger in OTG or did I miss that part?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Demonstrated haptics, they work fine. You can adjust the strength to your preference. Plunger, same as on the ALP HD and is fine to me.

[@roudyvaillancourt473]

Thank you again for your amazing work. I'm refreshing your site everyday. I know you don't know about the price, but is there any "timetable" of when they will announce it? I'm just waiting for this to decide if I build myself or wait for the 4kp. Thank you!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you for your kind comment! When the price will be announced, I don't know. Totally up to AtGames. As soon as I know, I'll update. Best I can do. I know it's an important question and the most asked, I won't delay updating. That's the only thing I do know.

[@dariandark]

With all this positivity I'm worried for my pocketbook.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Hopefully we'll get the damage report soon, price is the #1 question.

[@Tommyfare]

Nice video - again 😊 a little more gameplay would have been nice too, but it's looking good. Are the solenoids really that loud? Is this noise really the solenoid or is it a sound you can turn down?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Yes, the solenoids are indeed really that loud. In this v1.0 machine, I can't turn them down. However, in v1.1/1.2 (and production version) the strength is software-controlled. One of the disadvantages of being a very early adopter lol.

[@Tommyfare]

@@WagnersTechTalk😅 good to know. Most of the time I am early adopter of technical devices. It's always fun to find silly stuff.

[@potatochipz3097]

Does old the ALP pinball controller panel work on this new 4K machine?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Yes it does! You'll find that question (#2) and more here: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Q_A

[@rushmore3927]

Wonder if they have an idea on the price for this? Still thinking they don't yet know themselves.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Price hasn't been made available as of yet. It's #5 here: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Q_A . Once known, it will get updated.

[@Snoopy20117]

So you are looking at at least $2500 in total with the price of the pinball and a laptop in order to play OTG?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

First off, we don't know the price of the 4KP. Second of all, no you can install/play tables directly on the machine without a PC. See Part 2 for a demonstration of some of the Legends 4K tables (no PC was harmed/used during the filming of Part 2).

[@RedBeard513]

Wagner for president!!!🙌🙌

[@WagnersTechTalk]

LOL, now that made me laugh! Definitely don't want that job.

[@videogamevegas]

Hey Wagner, I forgot to ask, does the laptop you bought have 3 HDMI ports? I was wondering how you attached it to the 3 ports on the back of the Legends 4K. Yeah, it looks like this machine might be for me. Just saw the Addams Family skin reveal and MAN would I love to get it! Now on to part 4 again :) vgv

[@WagnersTechTalk]

No, it had 1 HDMI and x1 DV port. I instead used a USB 3.0 to dual HDMI adapter that I've used for a few years to provide the x2 additional HDMI ports. I show it in this video (Part 3) but only briefly and don't say anything about it. Also, it's not available at this time. I did add an accessories section to the evt guide if that's helpful at all with the original (defunct) link and something else that may work just as well.

[@videogamevegas]

Thank you Wagners! I've never tried to setup an actual VPin using a PC, and especially not with the luxury of having 3 screens, the dream. It looks like AtGames is the one who finally stepped up to give us a true plug and play option (beyond boutique offerings) at a very decent price. I was looking for something around $1,000 and their earliest bird pre-order price for this new 4K offering fits my criteria. You doing these four in-depth videos showing everything working with the OTG solution is what we needed, and AtGames was VERY WISE to go in this direction, especially with someone so passionate about the hobby. I jumped in on their first VPin and unfortunately, from day one, even up until now, still feels like a Beta project, but with them proving themselves with a respected member of the community with their new product, showing that things just work now, should do the fans right. Thanks again for everything and I can't wait to see what you cover next :) vgv

[@-haso]

I really hope they fix the hardware based OTG lag this go around. I can’t believe I’m thinking about buying another ALP just to fix this issue.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

What you see in this video is should be what we find in the production version also.

[@davefoster3810]

I’ll try 2k on the ROG Ally and see how it goes once the unit arrives. 4K is too resource heavy even for a machine running a GTX 3070. Has anyone tried it on 2k to see how it performs. As always…thank you for the great demo of the At Games Pinball.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Yep, 4K is going to be too much for the ROG Ally. Here are some settings I used for HD with FX, if it's helpful: wagnerstechtalk.com/asusrogally/#Video_Setup

[@davefoster3810]

@@WagnersTechTalk thx for the link I’ll check it out. I’m thinking I’ll probably use the ROG for the AGLU and throw my (3070, ryzen 3700x) at the 4k pinball but set it to 2k which seems fine on the pc. I’m sure you can agree the fun is in the tinkering around :-). Keep the great videos coming!!!!

[@jhuehne]

Cool video series. Thanks! I got my son a legends micro pinball for Xmas. Do you have mini pc/pc suggestions for otg on that unit? Thanks!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I've only reviewed one miniPC at this point, it wasn't a good fit for virtual pinball (IMO). However, the Asus ROG Ally can pull double-duty. That is, it's a portable handheld PC (running Windows) and does a decent job of playing Pinball FX and would be great on the ALPu. You can also install VPX/Future Pinball if you want, but I personally only focused on Pinball FX with it. I do have guides for VPX/FP setup, if needed also. For more on the ROG Ally being used for Pinball FX, please see this page: wagnerstechtalk.com/asusrogally/#Virtual_Pinball_Cabinet_Mode . There is much more on the page that you may find helpful also.

[@arcadetalk]

Where are the solonoids at in this EVT? I know you said they moved them in the production one but I am curious where they are in this one.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I took a peek inside, they appear to be mounted close to the flippers. However, this may change in the production model. Not sure exactly where.

[@courtyard9966]

They need to add some led to add to the emersion… i hope they do

[@RobStevens64]

Late to the game, but I’m guessing the SSF kit will be codenamed ‘Joshua.’ Fits with the War Games clue, same number of letters as ‘Rachel.’ Just talked my wife into letting me order the Addams Family kit. I don’t want to talk about the concessions I had to make to get her to agree to that. I’d prefer a ST:TNG kit, but I also don’t want to wait. 😂

[@WagnersTechTalk]

It was the same for me when I bought the ALP HD a few years ago. My wife wasn't initially on-board, once it arrived she changed her mind. She's not much into gaming, but she does enjoy it. In Part 4, the answer will be revealed. Joshua is a good guess,. It's hidden really well but will give you the answer.

[@digitalvictory8266]

Does anybody recall what the OTG lag was on the Legends HD ? How does this compare?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I never personally compared the two and didn't test latency on the Legends HD myself.

[@djm2373]

If we can add more solenoids and upgrade the SSF. Should be a home run if price is reasonable

[@WagnersTechTalk]

x2 solenoids built-in, ssf kit should be available around the time the 4KP begins to ship. No idea on pricing.

[@strells]

If the PC is not turned on yet (as you normally have to do with the current ALP before going into OTG so the monitors are set up correctly in Windows) does the ALP 4K show that the HDMI inputs are disconnected? Or better yet, is it safe to turn your PC on before going into OTG and the monitor arrangement sticks across PC reboots?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I show that in this video, yes it shows disconnected in the OTG dialog and connected when it's re-connected. It does that for all 3 HDMI ports. How/when you turn on the PC isn't relevant. I've rebooted several times with the 4KP up and running. When that happens, the OTG dialog appears and waits for you to press the Start button to re-enter OTG mode. Hope that answered your question.

[@strells]

@@WagnersTechTalk Not really. What I'm asking is that if the PC is on and connected before you switch to OTG mode, is the display arrangement in Windows maintained? In the current ALP, if the ALP is not powered on and switched to OTG before turning on your PC, Windows more often than not messes up the display arrangement when you eventually do go into OTG. Maybe this is a desktop vs. laptop issue. I'm using a gaming desktop for VPX over OTG and must have the ALP up and ready to go before I turn the PC on.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I've not had to re-arrange the displays in Windows 11 since I first set it up (about a week ago). I've powered off the laptop/4KP, powered it on, unplugged the HDMI cables, plugged them in (to the same port). Now, if you swap the HDMI cables from one port to anther, that will be a problem.

[@strells]

@@WagnersTechTalk I’m still using Windows 10. Perhaps that’s the cause.

[@Joseph4587]

Great video!! Were you able to test the nudging capability using VPX, Future Pinball or Pinball FX3 / Pinball FX? If so, what are your thoughts? That is the feature I want/need to be built into my next cab. I think your write up says that you have the capability to use it, but wanted to confirm.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you! If you only knew how many times I had to setup these machines, re-configure, re-test, etc. lol I didn't get to nudging in this video. Not to say I won't, just that I wanted to make sure I provided this information semi-timely. We can always expand on it in a future video.

[@Joseph4587]

@@WagnersTechTalk We all understand the patience it takes to set these machines up, so for that, we applaud you sir and do appreciate the thoroughness and dedication with having to buy the laptop. I know many of us will have to do the same when the time comes. Thanks so much. Looking forward to Part 4.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

One thing I was thinking about after replying, may not be able to test this. In this v1.0 cabinet, the solenoids fire (loudly) and in v1.1/1.2 they are software controlled. However, in this version they are not and the solenoids were also located differently (not sure where). So, anytime I hit the flippers it's going to trigger the accelerometer. I'll have to think more about this but a good chance I can't show it with machine.

[@Joseph4587]

@@WagnersTechTalkNo worries. I understand since it is an early build. Thanks for the heads up.

[@DidYouReadEULA]

Arcade 1Up seems to have lost the war where VP is concerned. Glad AtGames is not resting on their laurels but innovating. Dream feature I would love but is probably not feasible is VPX and FP nudge using the built in ALP shake/nudge instead of assigned button.

[@ien2023]

From my experience , don't use a laptop for your pinball. You will experience what he's experiencing ... lack of ports, loud fan noise, screens can improperly not load and among other things. Stick with a good gaming tower desktop or a powerful mini pc box. You will have more ports available, quiet fan noise, and just less weird issue you encounter using a laptop.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

My initial plan was to order on Amazon, but none of the machines I was looking at would get here until around later this week. I needed something within a day or two (i.e. last Thurs). As mentioned, Best Buy's desktop lineup was not great at all. The one possible machine had to be ordered. It left me with either "Open Box" laptop or delay the video for another week (or more). I went with the first option. The laptop is plenty fast, probably one of the best gaming laptops I've ever seen.

[@ien2023]

Yeah I did what you did with a gaming laptop and it was just weird stupid issues every week. After I switched to a gaming tower it load smoothly with no issues and plenty of ports for the multi screens.@@WagnersTechTalk

[@BrianSmith-usmc]

Hey Jon. Great video! On the video the flippers sound like you are playing ping pong! Is this just the sound we hear from recording? Or how does it sound in person? One more thing. An you test some of Terry Red’s future pinball PinEvent Tables? Those are some of the best tables out right now.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

On this v1.0 cab, I'm not able to adjust the solenoid strength. In later versions (v1.1/1.2), it is software controlled. It sounds different in the recording than it does in-person. However, the acoustics may also be different in the final version as the solenoids were re-located in later models (not sure where). Yes, the FP table shown here isn't the latest from Terry Red. I'm be working to get some of his most recent updated tables added. They are amazing!

[@skippyb.coyote895]

The Legends Pinball 4KP sure looks fantastic in every way, but the one question I have that wasn't answered on the website guide is whether or not AtGames has any plans to make a micro version of the Legends Pinball 4KP? I love all the upgrades on the 4KP but don't have the space for a full size pin. Any chance a micro tabletop version might be in the pipeline? Preferably with a proper plunger ball launcher instead of the button launcher on the current Legends Pinball Micro!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I honestly have no clue, I can only discuss/comment on what I have here.

[@skippyb.coyote895]

​@@WagnersTechTalk That's alright, I just figured it wouldn't hurt to ask and I'm trying to decide whether to pick up a Legends Pinball Micro in the next month or so or if I should wait to see if a 4K version comes along.

[@PapaBradsGaming]

My OTG mode is greyed out on my 4KP. I followed all the step including the install of Xpadder.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

From what I understand, you're all good now right PapaBrad?

[@PapaBradsGaming]

@@WagnersTechTalk Yes. Thank you for your videos and help. I have all 3 screens running now as well. I am amazed at how jaw dropping Pinball FX via OTH is running on ALP 4K Addams Family Table. Truly a great experience.

[@briantoogood8928]

How is the nudging in the 4K ALP for built in tables and with OTG? I haven’t heard any mention of it.

[@vilhelmstein2091]

@WagnersTechTalk

[@vilhelmstein2091]

I wish they focused on 1440p with more pinball table effects such as shadows etc... the atgames version of the adams family looks super flat.

[@saiyanvegetax]

Hey John, did you get around to testing the playfield at 1080p? Thanks

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I didn't personally, no. I had to ship it off before I could re-configure everything to 1080p. But, the AtGames labs did verify (shown briefly here during the FX test) that 1080p is good also.

[@dieard1]

Nice. The stock buttons are absolutely terrible. Switching out with gold leaf buttons will dramatically lower the input time. Also if using VPX map the buttons direct rather than use joy2key.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I didn't use j2k, used xpadder. The response time (shown in this video) was exactly the same using xpadder as it was with a USB keyboard.

[@dieard1]

@@WagnersTechTalk apologies, I watched it with the sound down. It’s definitely a step up from the last cab. Thanks for all your hard work.

[@fitnessrefocus]

Are you able to demo a Steam Deck to 4kP via OTG?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

May try it at some point, but in terms of CPU performance I wouldn't expect the Steam Deck to out perform the Ally. Is it possible, maybe. Something to test another day, perhaps with Pinball FX. Thank you for your feedback and recommendation!

[@troymcdonald]

I didn’t hear anything about cable length causing any type disconnects. (Remember the short cable issue you figured out, as well as KZbinr “Digital Victory”, myself and others having issues..) What did you find? Thanks

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Are you talking about the OTG cable length? I didn't have any issues with that on the evt and I was using a 6ft OTG cable. HDMI cables were a mix of 6ft (x2) and 3ft cables (x1) and neither demonstrated any disconnect issues.

[@troymcdonald]

@@WagnersTechTalk yes cable length and any disconnect issues. Thanks

[@molarmedic]

Why does the flipper solenoid sound like it has two clicks... one when you click it (normal sound) and an extra click when you let go.. (not normal compared to real pin).

[@WagnersTechTalk]

It's because this is an early prototype (v1.0 board). It's been corrected in later versions of the PCB, from what I understand.

[@BrianHaskell78]

Could you please tell us what you latency of FX when just playing on the laptop alone? I feel would help us know how much latency is added by the ALP 4K. Thank you!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

That is a valid test scenario, may be this weekend before I can do that but I'll respond back once I do.

[@djm2373]

Great review dude ! Any word when they will take pre orders ?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you! Not sure yet on pre-orders.

[@arthurpendragon7224]

My main concern will be ball physics, the AtGames game packs by Magic Pixel for the 1080 table have very bouncy ball physics. Let's hope they sort this .

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I appreciate your feedback! I don't know if the physics engine has been changed at all, but the ball movement (see Part 2) seem to be realistic to me.

[@vilhelmstein2091]

I hope OTG works good or else I'm going to have a huge paper weight in my house.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I've not yet tested OTG personally with the production machine, next I'll install the SSF kit. Once that's done, OTG is next to test. I want to be able to test SSF and OTG together.

[@Cero21]

Any chance to test out the latency on the original ALP (using your methodology) to compare?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

May do that at some point. Next will be to tackle the SSF kit install, getting lots of requests for that lately.

[@mpearman1]

Do the buttons allow for varying degrees of flipper movement or is there only 100% flipper movement each time the button is pressed?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Just like a real pinball machine, it depends on how/where/how fast on the flipper you press the button.

[@raymondjohnson4358]

hi. what are you using to configure your controls? the same as the HD model? Joytokey or Xpadder?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Xpadder

[@AskUncleDavecom]

now do a setup video with steam deck with three screen

[@WagnersTechTalk]

In all honesty, that's likely going to have to wait until the production model becomes available. I'll explain why in Part 4.

[@wryker]

Did you use an HDMI hub-splitter to get the 3 HDMI outputs to the back of the ALP? My FireHD 10" for my DMD is wirelessly connected.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

It wasn't a splitter, it was a dual HDMI adapter (two different HDMI signals). I've had it for a few years and used it with the Dell shown in this video in the hopes that someday I'd use it with a DMD. On the ALP HD, I never did. But, it came in very handy for this video and worked out well.

[@wryker]

@@WagnersTechTalk I'm a little confused - did it convert your single HDMI output to 2 HDMI outs? Thus allowing you to use on HDMI output for the BG & DMD and another dedicated HDMI out from you computer to the playfield?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

It was USB going into the PC (laptop), then provided x2 HDMI female output ports. The laptop has a built-in HDMI port, that's the one used for the playfield. The other two, from the adapter, to the backbox/DMD. Each has it's own separate HDMI signal. I added a few here for USB-C / USB-A depending on the ports available on any given machine: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Accessories . However, the exact model I used in this video is not available anymore.

[@lynnmccrary1292]

When are they available for purchase

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Unsure, AtGames will announce when they're ready. When they do, I'll update here: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Q_A

[@kiodiekin]

how do u not have a 4k gaming pc lieing around somewhere?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

lol, I was waiting for someone to call me out on that! I'm glad it was you brother. I truly don't man, I'm not big into PC gaming. See 1st paragraph here: wagnerstechtalk.com/steamdeck/#Gaming_on_the_Steam_Deck .

[@kiodiekin]

@@WagnersTechTalk so from watching this and what I’m seeing. This is a $3500 setup to make it all work including the laptop you bought?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Yep, if you include the laptop that includes a support plan from Best Buy (~$1,430+~$178+tax). But, with the Zen announcement that may differ if that's all you want to play (no VPX/Future Pinball -at this point). Also, it's a laptop, typically more expensive than a desktop. But, I'm sure you're already aware of that lol . Here's the exact model that I purchased, it went up $500 after I bought it, so your estimate would actually be $3,449k if you bought both right now (your estimate is slightly inflated, perhaps including shipping): www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-rog-zephyrus-m16-16-240hz-gaming-laptop-qhd-intel-13th-gen-core-i9-with-16gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-1tb-ssd-off-black/6535501.p?skuId=6535501 . Can you go much cheaper, of course you can. I was in the market for a gaming laptop, this gave me the motivation that I needed.

[@kiodiekin]

@@WagnersTechTalk thanks

[@bupp291]

So if I run OTG in 1080p instead of 4K, I might be able to get away with using a lower end system? Like my Steam Deck?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

While not shown for the 4K, should be just fine using a Steam Deck in HD. If interested, here's how I set it all up on the Steam Deck and connected to the ALP (HD): wagnerstechtalk.com/sd-alp

[@bupp291]

@@WagnersTechTalk thank you! That's perfect!

[@Micha-qf3ct]

when can i by it?whats the price john????

[@WagnersTechTalk]

We don't know the answers yet (#5 and 7 here): wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Q_A . Once known, I'll update there.

[@gamebit9063]

When and how much?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

The when and how much are a bit vague right now (#5 & #7): wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Q_A . Once more is known, I'll update it there.

[@travis3656]

Do the selenoids work for provide feedback when bumpers are hit? Also, how does nudging work (if at all)?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

The solenoids are only for the flippers. However, if you add the (optional) SSF kit, you'll feel the bumpers, hear the ball rolling across the playfield, etc. Nudging works, you have two choices there you can use the accelerometer or the hardware buttons (there is a left/right and forward physical nudge button). You can find much more information on this page: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4k

[@travis3656]

@@WagnersTechTalk Thank you for the reply. I am thinking of getting Adams Family with the SSF installed (have it in my cart). Will all of that work with Pinball FX in OTG? I will get a 4080 equipped PC or laptop for this use and want it to run 4k as realistic a possible...

[@travis3656]

@@WagnersTechTalk But that doesn't work for Pinball FX 1 or 3, correct? Does it work for VPX?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

@@travis3656 For that setup, you may find this guide helpful: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4k-pcsetup . It will show you how it plays and what it looks like. The SSF integration is better with built-in tables vs. FX on the PC (imo). However, the tables look great in 4K over OTG.

[@travis3656]

@@WagnersTechTalk Thank you for the reply. If the SSF still poor using VPX? I am trying to balance getting a Legends machine vs. saving and spending more on the prebuilt bigger VPX virtual pins available. Than you for the help!

[@danfink8670]

I’m curious to know what laptop specs you are using for the OTG thanks 🙏

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I used this beast: www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-rog-zephyrus-m16-16-240hz-gaming-laptop-qhd-intel-13th-gen-core-i9-with-16gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-1tb-ssd-off-black/6535501.p?skuId=6535501. You can also find the link to it here: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Part_3_OTG