The Game Changers - Debunked

Full write up: www.biolayne.com/articles/res...
Below are links to the different research data used in this video
www.atlasobscura.com/articles...
www.themanual.com/outdoors/ul...
outofthiscentury.wordpress.co...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9...
journals.plos.org/plosone/art...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.stack.com/a/watch-brian-s...
www.businessinsider.com/brian...
www.mensjournal.com/food-drin...
www.boxinginsider.com/headlin...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.nature.com/articles/jhh20...
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.tylervigen.com/spurious-c...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.11...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
annals.org/aim/fullarticle/27...
phys.org/news/2011-06-gorilla...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
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[@norseguy89]

"if you look for something to confirm your bias you can generally find it" - Layne Norton. words to live by kids

[@kabirshaikh]

Works both ways

[@epickiller30]

If only Layne lived by those words

[@cuzzywuzzyfuzzy]

as long as you can find it!!

[@AnkurTheATHLETE]

i was pro meat before watching game changers. Did a little bit of research on the topic. And I can no longer look at animals as food. So how did it confirm my bias? It actually destroyed my bias towards animal protein being superior.

[@slickrgl]

works both ways fam.

[@steviedodds31]

Layne, Arnold did a house tour, in his fridge.... eggs. He is an actor too.

[@iL1keTurtlesPoker]

He also still says steak is his favourite food 😁

[@lovesanimalshatesrats6339]

It’s for the maid.

[@BukkaLevy]

He also did a video where he puts a whole egg in his smoothie and drinks it.

[@TheSupart91]

Facts

[@ThePiscesHero]

Yea he's well known for his hit Hercules check it out

[@karamindev2396]

I think I’m going to trust research and science, not opinion and bias.

[@christeenforster4645]

You realize James Cameron has a major stake in a plant based protein company

[@karamindev2396]

jonsan astari I never said anything about the documentary? I said research and science.

[@cypriano8763]

Josiane. Are you à barley man. Sure looks like youve been indulging in those dreaded fat inducing carbs. If you dont believe à plant bases diet is optimal for health, why, the unbiased science is in dude, the évidence is overwheming, this is what you should be recomending tout your clients. Your gonna get left behind. Remember this human= primate= Banana, fuckin banana

[@WarrenKirkpatrick]

Cypriano snore mate. If it was so optimal then why are you supplementing it? Anyway you enjoy your plants and I will continue eating this fantastic grass fed organic beef burger lol

[@_josephbogdan_]

@Kara Mindev Yes opinion and bias is what these two are spewing.

[@stevenhewes1990]

Want to see Layne debate James on the JRE.

[@nailed2theX]

Shewes would fail big time

[@victorgrajeda4299]

Honestly, you'd really want to see James scream more incoherent thoughts?

[@Meeesa]

@@victorgrajeda4299 I'd love to see Layne and James go at it. Listening to James again would be insufferable, but at least Layne has legitimate knowledge on the subject.

[@victorgrajeda4299]

@Golden Knight you're proof the brain needs meat, imbecile.....

[@michwoz]

@The Truth He would not. Not for people who doesn't easily fall for intentional fallacies.

[@KrystalessR]

I agree, except for one thing. Documentaries are rarely filmed debates. They are almost always one sided. Mostly because they are usually funded by someone who has a stance on a subject, so they're not putting their money into making a film displaying both sides.

[@danpenia219]

It would be like a 5 hour documentary

[@BMGipe45]

That's the problem. Being one sided is one thing. Flat out misrepresenting information, manipulating "studies" to falsely correlate an theory, etc., is NOT being one sided. It's being dishonest. It's lying. It's NOT what a documentary is supposed to be.

[@KrystalessR]

@@BMGipe45 - Sure, but that isn't what I was arguing.

[@dbo4506]

Yes everyone has their agenda. Which is why it’s super important to give real unbiased facts that prove your point. Instead of filling it full of lies. Anyone who has at least minimal knowledge in nutrition knows that this doco is full of lies and half truths. Which makes the film a lot of Bs. And with the world we live in today that will always get found out pretty quickly. So if you can’t prove your point with validity then don’t make the movie.

[@sairahsultan8028]

@@BMGipe45 sounds like farmers who have pictures of cows/chickens/pigs roaming free on their products when in reality these souls never see the light of day and are injured in their pens. The farming industry is notorious for being misleading and somehow portray themselves as victims when called out for murdering and prisoning.

[@reemm4696]

You know it's as ridiculous as the educational movies they show the kids in school in the Simpsons you know the ones that start with " hi I'm troy McClure "

[@ivanorozco4274]

hahahaha...!! Layne sums it up masterfully on his last comments: "over all, this thing is a steaming pile of shit" hahahahaha

[@mathiastougaard1951]

Alot of people disliked this even though this video is packed with what really seems to be objectively scientificly correct arguments. Im not a doctor myself, but I will gladly listen to someone who is, like Layne, who is willing to present what seems to be an unbiased scientific opinion/evidence. Be sceptical but reasonable everyone, this is a "debate/conversation" we need to have, so try to avoid getting super hostile.

[@fabricioabarca5014]

@Golden Knight haha

[@fatcatlocatedinahat962]

@Mathias Tougaard Half of what these people say is false and was never said in the dark documentary

[@PrimoPete]

@Golden Knight where?

[@TheSimonboyle]

It's also linked with relevant information and studies for you to verify it for yourself. You do nit need to believe a word they say, you can verify it for yourself. That's what science is.

[@waynekerr9423]

OMG, I know this comment WON'T get posted because it's against everything this Channel and Holly "the true experts" believe, DON'T FALL for this video channel and what they teach on this Channel people. Why are they trying to convince you that the Game Changers documentary is incorrect it's very simple....it's BECAUSE IT GOES AGAINTS everything they believe the products they endorse and make money from so of course they aren't going to talk about all the bad chemicals injected into animals which of course are going to be in your body once you consume the meat. Watching this video was very hard and talk about CHERRY PICKING, that's exacting what they themselves in this video are doing. Again the reason this channel does not support the facts in the documentary is because they would have take down this channel because their channel is against everything which is said in the documentary. Do you think for a minute that the people in this video don't really need money, THEY DO however that being said, it's biolayne and Holly you should be really questioning not the people who produced a fact based documentary. Wake up people, this channel is going to tell you whatever and everything they can to get you to stay and believe in what they are saying so you will continue watching their channel. What a joke, Holly saying she's disappointed in Arnold, I'm sure he's laughing at your comment........................wake up people.

[@realism4183]

How hard have you been bulking layne?

[@drudizzle1]

It’s not the film makers that said “Connor had too many steaks”. Connor himself said he had too many steaks lol

[@RedPillVegan]

Connor is biased, and you cherry picked his comment

[@curtsk19]

thinking the same thing, they definitely paid him to say that hahahah

[@juahnhatwell]

Connor also said he would whip mayweathers ass and he was old and had brittle hands. Connor is all mouth can't even beat an old man in a pub

[@rubberbandman69]

He said he ate too many deserts too trying to gain enough weight. But yeah lets blame meat. I wonder if he ate meat when he won the rematch....

[@danpenia219]

He took too much coke, don't forget to drink water McGregor!

[@mikeg4490]

Lol who else is imagining Vegain Gainz rushing to write a script for his response to this?

[@urmomsn3wbf]

It'll probably be two hours long

[@leonbenj]

Now "that's" going to be entertainment 🌝 I'll gladly watch a 45 min breakdown of his

[@mikeg4490]

@@urmomsn3wbf lol bro it'll be uploaded b4 midnight

[@snuseren]

I hope he does

[@Bajstolletolletolle]

Cant wait 😀

[@marquette0426]

Joe brought me here

[@OmgItzCOLTON]

same

[@ryandean3777]

Me tooooo!!!

[@aa-vr8li]

how?

[@jedbriimc9879]

You should go watch round 2, joe amd chris got bodied

[@aa-vr8li]

@@jedbriimc9879 which round two?with james you mean?

[@thelonespacemarine5211]

The biggest take away is that it was paid for and starred people with heavy investments in Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods. So it was a 2 hour commercial.

[@benjamingentile1660]

Does the doc mention that Conor then beat Nate in the rematch? Wow, only mentioning the first fight is ridiculous.

[@user-zy1sq3cg9m]

Yeah by points sure but if that fight were to keep going then it was going the same way. Nate also ended up on top at the need of the fight!

[@Hosedinho]

Its about how amazing nates endurance is.. Conors endurance is pathetic.. plus the secind rematch could have gone either way.

[@westcoastpena]

Cherry picking

[@fabolousjada5070]

Tbf even Conor said he should’ve never ate that much steak

[@riccardo1221]

Question regarding the comments made about tests conducted on 'endothelial function' where it shows more fat in the blood of meat eaters vs non meat eaters - does this not prove their point that more fat in blood is more damaging and can lead to complications? (disregard the fact that they didn't actually test endothelial function)

[@deezisbak]

Riccardo Brusco Wanted to note that I’m not saying that eating carbs (having a higher blood glucose level) is a bad thing at all. It’s normal after eating carbs.. just as having triglycerides in the bloodstream after a fatty meal is normal and expected.

[@BRISTOLKETTLEBELLS]

dieteticallyspeaking.com/an-evidence-based-review-of-the-game-changers/?fbclid=IwAR11rcFuC8FNVloULxJnyLZSiCpj0Eb-bqO1WA7pJRG01LOUTr7FVNSMJf8

[@michaelfischer1979]

@@BRISTOLKETTLEBELLS that is the worst researched article I have seen in a long time and that really means something. If somebody talks about "low protein quality" be aware, next comes BS

[@michaelfischer1979]

Riccardo, did it dawn on you that this film is meant as a entry level docu? There is other films that go deeper. The research behind it is rock solid though. This is a bit like your teacher in school showing you a simple experiment. I'm so sad that 100% of critique I have seen on Game Changers is either the same old BS bro-science or a criticism that the film is not a 50 hour long session of nutritional science lectures...

[@michaelfischer1979]

@Chokwe well it was maybe a bit biased. But every fact presented was correct, even if simplified.

[@fingersm]

If you stare long enough at the screen you can see Layne

[@FlatToRentUK]

4 years later and I've not progressed to the left side yet. Sure I'll get there one day.

[@legend66809]

I'm sure this video is totally unbiased and has nothing to do with them selling books on "fat loss" that includes meat recipes. Hmm...

[@Brandonh31]

I'm sure game changers was totally unbiased too, being produced by James Cameron who has invested $140M into plant based protein for beyond meat™ Just sayin

[@PrimoPete]

I'm sure you are saying so because you can prove with sources that his sources and claims are incorrect. Go ahead...

[@judgebostian3639]

Did you hear the beginning of the video? He probably personally eats meat, but that's because it's a nutrient dense food.

[@wlaba272]

I'd die to watch Layne vs guy from Gamechangers debate. I'm trying not to it a lot of meat, maybe 1x per week and those topic are very, very interesting to people like myself.

[@shannonpierce6894]

Nate Diaz also trains for marathons and iron mans so he has a passion for endurance events ...which would give him a better gas tank

[@trainzen6805]

Would you say that 1% increase discussed at minute 30 is possibly connected to mTOR? If so, can cell autophagy for example counter that?

[@CrohnsCast]

people with haemophilia and chronic immune diseases caused through no relation with diet tend to seek healthier lifestyle habits... does this mean we should now all look to have these... why does nutrition have to be so combative... Thank you guys for giving an unbiased view on nutrition and understanding of individual characteristics

[@AdamGoodson]

This is a fun video for me to watch. You and Holly taking time to explain multiple points of view. I plan on getting your book on Fat Loss and starting in the new year, 2020. Thank you both so very much for this video.

[@isnotforthewin]

39:55 my bias confirmation, this is my number one belief when it comes to human diets and what I believe is healthy.

[@vengadorsky]

So, when are you gonna go on the JRE and officially end this madness?

[@theironforce3000]

He said many times he'd love to go back on . . but can't just 'Call Joe' and ask to be on there. He'd have to get invited again.

[@Ganse23]

@@theironforce3000 Joe reached out to him before the podcast even was posted on youtube. Check out this article www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-debate-james-wilks-vs-chris-kresser-on-the-joe-rogan-experience/

[@traepalmer]

Watched "The Game Changers" a few weeks back, and I feel that this was a very fair critique. Only thing I'd add is that while a true documentary should present all sides of a debate, almost none seem to accomplish this and inevitably have some sort of a bias to them, which is why I generally advise friends to always dive into a documentary with a skeptical eye.

[@MitchPhillips]

Can you tell me a documentary you've watched that truly presented 'all sides of a debate'? Did An Inconvenient Truth acknowledge opinions of climate change deniers? Did The Magic Pill acknowledge opinions of plant-based health professionals? Did The Cove (Oscar winner) acknowledge opinions of Japanese dolphin hunters? Did I Am Not Your Negro acknowledge opinions of white supremacists? You want 'all sides of a debate', go and listen to a debate. A documentary by definition is "A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration." Nowhere in the definition does it state 'all sides of a political, social or historical debate are represented'.

[@traepalmer]

@@MitchPhillips in the beginning of the video, Layne stated that he was referring to "Game Changers" as a film and not a documentary because it didn't present both sides of this topic, which is what I was referring to with my comment: documentaries almost never present multiple sides to a given topic. As long as one goes into them knowing this, it's fine.

[@traepalmer]

@@MitchPhillips from the definition you provided, in order for something to be "factual" and "informative", particularly when covered something that's not settled science, it should cover multiple sides: that doesn't need to explicitly be in the definition.

[@MitchPhillips]

Trae Palmer Are you saying the peer-reviewed science examples in the film (of which there was an abundance) are false? Also, not sure how you the film fails to live up to the definition from an ‘informative’ perspective?

[@traepalmer]

@@MitchPhillips I'm saying that when one looks into them, as Layne did, they might be sloppy citations (i.e., the conclusions in the research cited don't actually support the statements the authors are attempting to make) or the research might have had methodological problems, itself, which is why it's always valuable when someone actually goes through and critiques them as Layne did. It's informative in the sense of presenting this lesser-known side of athletics (that plant-based athletes exist). Your definition also included "factual", however, and leaving out expert opinion from those who feel that plant-based diets wouldn't necessarily confer an advantage in athletics doesn't accurately present the current state of opinions of researchers in this field.

[@DrSwole]

Excellent point by point discussion! Thank you for highlighting the biases in Game Changers. It's always a red flag when an information source only presents one side of the story 🤔

[@DrSwole]

MS I’m not clear on which part you think is BS?

[@barronguy]

He didn't list any of his sources throughout the video. Finally at the end he said there's sources in the description. There's over forty links. Did you actually look through all the links and fact check him? Either way he's purposely trying to make it as hard and confusing as possible to fact check him. Why would someone do that if they felt like they had solid evidence?

[@DrSwole]

MS I’m not sure what constitutes as hardcore manipulation. He does base his counter arguments on sound physiological principles

[@RichCarrel]

How long was meet eating pushed?! Yeah red flag when info is one sided! Lol

[@DrSwole]

Butch I agree that it would be wrong to say meat eating is the only good option. Most diet styles come down to personal preference and they all have pros and cons

[@calebmorgan3360]

Love the content, hate the sound editing. Layne comes thru my left ear and she comes thru my right. Annoying

[@scottabraham1234]

Jurek is probably using fat as his main source of energy over carbohydrate. Lots of endurance runners have been training their bodies to use fat stores in recent years. Ultra runners can only store about 2 hours worth of energy from carbohydrates so you either refuel a lot (and probably become sick) or are using another energy source, ie fat stores.

[@jayrezvani3821]

11:13 another thing I just found out is that cows create more lysine (as in, the amino acid content of their meat) than they consume; cows generate 240% of the lysine that they consume in corn. Also, turns out lysine is essentially the limiting amino acid in most cases; apparently the leading cause of protein deficiency (ie in developing nations) is if the protein sources have an insufficient proportion of digestible lysine.

[@galinageorgieva4735]

Cows should not even eat corn, all cows should be grass fed, corn gives them digestive problems

[@lordfarquaad3939]

8:35 hate to correct you but that's a false premise not a logical fallacy.

[@lordfarquaad3939]

M D what did you say? I can't read comments

[@SchmozzleGTO]

This is a false premise, you clearly enjoyed correcting them, which makes your statement a fallacy, logically.

[@lordfarquaad3939]

Cian O'Mahony it doesn't make my statement a fallacy, it makes my statement an unsound premise. Also your statement is a post hoc ergo prompter hoc. You are making the assumption that I enjoy correcting people because you do/someone you know does.

[@lukaswilliams5851]

Stevie wonder you faked being blind

[@lordfarquaad3939]

lukas williams new fone who dis

[@kaceychapman]

I appreciate your analysis, thank you for your work.

[@Lunarplex]

In the words of the great Mark Watney, you scienced the shit out of this one. Bravo!

[@destim2219]

Nice objective explanation, i'm wondering why the whole b12 supplementation discussion wasn't in here since it was (imo) one of the most talked about topics. Is it because it's self explanatory that the majority of cattle is supplemented this vitamin??? I am a meat eater but this was imo one of the strongest arguments in the movie and it makes sense.

[@omchi888]

Darn, guys. I wish I had seen your clip earlier, then I wouldn't have started veganism. Because now I'm 4 months in, and even though I *thought* I was eating balanced and got enough proteins from legumes and so forth, I'm noticing my strength is decreasing, and my strength endurance as well. Now, i'm back to "primal" ("forgiving" paleo with the carbs I love so much, rice and potatoes) -- it's my first day back, actually, and I'm feeling more energized again already. Thanks for your work. Awesome!

[@ivanorozco4274]

veganism can be a great lifestyle, but seems to me it's a really hard road to thread

[@DerekBoldiene360]

@ Norbert Matausch The Game Changers was used by science. Almond Milk has more calcium than cow's milk does.

[@malcolmolive267]

@@DerekBoldiene360 Absolutely. If you want calcium, eat your greens. These two are a joke.

[@DerekBoldiene360]

​@@malcolmolive267 I also don't eat lunch meat anymore its bad for you. I eat grass fed beef only if it grass fed its good for you. But I don't eat ham, bacon, Sausage, Hot dogs, Pepperoni all lunch meat is been preserved by smoking or salting, curing or adding chemical preservatives. They can harm your gut I gave up cows milk and I don't miss it.

[@user-tv9to1oe2h]

@@DerekBoldiene360 the game changers were used by cherry-picked science

[@golfslayer9976]

You can find almost any study that said one is better then the other. Best thing to do is do your our research and find what is best for you.

[@BendeMark]

No, the gladiator thing was a preamble that picked James' brain to further investigate how an athletic performance was possible on a vegetarian diet when existing permeating belief is that animal protein is required to perform at that level.

[@oltzu5206]

They still don't realize that most gladiators didn't survive long enough to need meat for best performance possible. The rare, famous and respected gladiators who survived many many years most likely ate meat

[@scottabraham1234]

Surely if the beetroot juice allowed you to do 19% more training then in the long run all that extra training could make you stronger?

[@christospify]

Time under pressure will create mass . That's the maths for hypertrophy .so yeah if you can train for longer positive results will follow , Also beetroot juice is high is N.O thought the nutritionist would know that . Don't agree with the way game changers done things or the fact that they cherry pick everything , but they way she acted like she has no idea what a beetroot does makes me think everyone is a shill

[@zzzzzaaaa9999]

By the way, I think the gladiators example is not presented as a scientific fact, thus not debunkable. It's just a story included in the author's journey how he ended up making the movie.

[@snooper71]

''not presented as a scientific fact, thus not debunkable'' By the way, the way it is presented to the viewers CAN be debunked. It is presented to viewers who in majority associate gladiators with strong, powerful and athletic people. It is presented in a way that let's the viewer believe that those powerful dudes ate plant based meals as a way to achieve physical superiority. Why do you suppose they use the gladiator example? It is clear they are presenting that story to drive the narrative that plant based diet is superior and thus it CAN and must be debunked. Gladiators were not strong an athletic soldiers who made dietary choices for optimal performance, most were fat criminals or slaves used for entertainment. Most did not have meal choices, they were fed available scraps therefore that ''example'' is disingenuous in every way imaginable.

[@ThomasAT86]

@@snooper71 Couldn't have said it better. I'm really surprised with the ideas that people come up with to defend what they believe in.

[@humza9460]

Dude what is wrong with you

[@MrJaaaaake]

@@snooper71 I feel like the fat thing is wrong too. If you have ever seen an animal with lots of fat get a cut you realize they bleed ALOT like a little cut spreads a long tear in fat. It would be better as a human to be leaner, thus more athletic to not get hit. Than to use your fat like you are some kind of fat tank considering how little damage humans can naturally take.

[@levirognejensen1745]

@@MrJaaaaake the gladiators had to bleed to make it entertaining to the spectators

[@47927411D]

I just want to eat better, and this added even more confusion to the subject. I didnt hear anything about the firefighter experiment...or did I miss that somewhere? Werent their numbers better even after a week? I also want to know whats best to eat, to be healthy

[@sydneyfury]

The firefighter experiment was by Rip Esselstyn. His father is a doctor, look them up ❤ and yes there numbers were better!

[@michaelristow2775]

The "steaming pile of shit" actually helped me. It got me thinking more about what I put in my body, but I seek the truth, googled and found your video and now I know more than I did before. Thanks!

[@DerekBoldiene360]

What your body more then meat is fiber.

[@Engrave.Danger]

@@DerekBoldiene360 there's nothing essential found in fiber and fiber itself is non-essential.

[@DerekBoldiene360]

@@Engrave.Danger What you said is totally ludicrous. With fiber and water both I healed and cleaned my gut out. I also gave cows milk because your not to drink cows milk. Junk food is bad for you also go look up Dr. Will Bulsiewicz. He wrote about a fiber diet that helped a lot of people. I lost 26 pounds in 28 doing fiber diet. I was 245 pounds then I went to 219. You need fiber and water to work together I also don't eat massive amount of meat anymore when I did I lost my hair which I had a lot hair when I was younger. Junk food will not fill your gut up it just make you crave more and more. Look up the facts water and fiber will clean your gut.

[@Teddy_______]

Anyone else bummed Layne didn’t debate James? Chris got run over on JRE and that definitely wouldn’t have happened with Layne.

[@miguelgarrido8864]

I agree!! It’s safe to say Chris and Layne got crushed!!

[@Teddy_______]

Miguel Garrido when did Layne get crushed?

[@miguelgarrido8864]

Teddy BAD B0Y please watch JRE’s podcast with James and Chris. It’s over 3 hours long but worth it. I’ll say this... most of the research that layne is referring to is garbage.

[@Teddy_______]

Miguel Garrido I did lol that’s exactly what I’m referring to. I’m saying Layne should’ve been in Chris’s place.

[@Teddy_______]

Miguel Garrido and I don’t know about the studies being garbage. I’m more likely to defer to Laynes judgment than James. Layne is way more qualified to interpret what he’s reading than Wilks is.

[@jeremyweekes2126]

Very great work guys. I also just watched your response to the Joe Rogan debate. It's nice to see someone who is impartial & evaluates the data objectively rather than allowing their personal bias to shine through.

[@KeepitWausome]

I wonder if it would be worthwhile for Netflix to start doing at least a minimal amount of fact checking on documentaries it approves. At least enough to find some of the blatant falsehoods Layne and Holly point out with this film.

[@dr.stephaniestover4096]

It took them 6 years to produce the film because they wanted the facts to be correct. All the articles and references are listed. Did you watch the movie?

[@tylerswank3979]

@@dr.stephaniestover4096 then why are there a lot of scientists, doctors and nutritionists debunking Gamechangers.

[@TheJohnsofDoes]

Because Netflix isn't in the business of providing information, they are in the business of pandering to statistics. They've said as much themselves. veganism, keto are pretty popular right now, traditional balanced diets with the incorporation of animal protein aren't. There is no such thing as superior sources of food for health though, it all really depends on your own ability to metabolise those foods.for instance, some people lacking in certain enzymes and commensal species will find it really difficult to eat a lot of fibre and veg because it will likely just result in SIBO, but that is not to say that SIBO is a given if you eat a lot of fibre from veg

[@thaabs123]

Im trying the plant based diet and honestly I've never felt better in my life. I've lost 33kg's and my workouts are prolonged. I don't feel blouted after meals. There is nothing to debunk but the choices u make to improve your life. That's just my opinion.

[@dancindavey1515]

thaabs123 same here. Feel better, and still lifting weights and doing bag work, jogging etc. At 67 years old. Saves lots of money too. No flu, or flu shots, no colds, no diseases. You got the right opinion.

[@mad555555]

I bet you also changed a lot of other bad health habits besides stop eating meat. lets see how long it lasts. it does not last very long. also dont get drunk. 70% chance you will eat meat. you should look into the actual science behind everything because the documentary cherry picked most of all of their info

[@thaabs123]

@@mad555555 do u work for McDonald's? Sounds like you do. I changed nothing but cutting out meat and dairy and replaced it with more plant based foods, everything is still the same. It works for me that's all I really care about.

[@zafmo9829]

@@thaabs123 lmao. You moron. Watch in 6 months or a year what happens. When you walk around looking like a zombie and your skin starts to crust. Then, you faint randomly in a parking lot somewhere 😁 only a moron would start eating plants

[@thaabs123]

@@zafmo9829 it takes a moron to know a moron hey. U stay a meat eating moron and I'll stay a plant eating moron. I'm cool with that.

[@roger8654]

I like the way he includes her in the conversation

[@james1327]

Love the honesty. It’s so hard to get the facts on diet. Everyone is selling a POV.

[@kylekalmbach]

They just made up that the documentary claims that the ultra marathoner is primarily burning protein during his trek. That's pretty dishonest.

[@fatcatlocatedinahat962]

@Kyle Kalmbach But have you ever seen the documentary? Because tgese people are saying stuff that were never said in the actual documantary

[@fortnightgamer3415]

@@fatcatlocatedinahat962 more like Calvin Virgin

[@pcprinciple3774]

It's really not, just look at the state of vegans as a whole and not a few outliers. The control group for comparison isn't people scoffing processed shit either.

[@SoNoFTheMoSt]

Thank you so much, i knew he was wrong but i just didnt know how, i also thought he was quite manic in his joe rogan interview which always rings alarm bells

[@Harem__King]

Plus Connor bested Diaz a few, months later.

[@RaveyDavey]

That’s because Conor started buying soya protein shakes...;-)

[@drakedickinson1317]

they should just make their own documentary. I learned so much more in this 40 minutes than in the 90 minute documentary.

[@mysticjedi6730]

Mean BMI was lowest in vegans (23.6 kg/m2) and incrementally higher in lacto-ovo vegetarians (25.7 kg/m2), pesco-vegetarians (26.3 kg/m2), semi-vegetarians (27.3 kg/m2), and nonvegetarians (28.8 kg/m2). Prevalence of type 2 diabetes increased from 2.9% in vegans to 7.6% in nonvegetarians; the prevalence was intermediate in participants consuming lacto-ovo (3.2%), pesco (4.8%), or semi-vegetarian (6.1%) diets. After adjustment for age, sex, ethnicity, education, income, physical activity, television watching, sleep habits, alcohol use, and BMI, vegans (OR 0.51 [95% CI 0.40-0.66]), lacto-ovo vegetarians (0.54 [0.49-0.60]), pesco-vegetarians (0.70 [0.61-0.80]), and semi-vegetarians (0.76 [0.65-0.90]) had a lower risk of type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. No they spewed out bullshit. Suggesting gladiators ate high plant based to get fat. To gain weight people eat more calorically dense generally. If they wanted to get fat eating fat would have been the better option. The fact is that the thinnest healthiest longest living populations ate almost 100% plant foods. Most doctors, nutritionists, trainers, etc won't tell you that because they ate not doing it themselves. They don't want to eat meat all day and then tell you to go plant based. These guys are fools. Why don't the just say plant based is optimal but I choose not to do that.. I tell my clients the truth and they can make their own choices.. I have an ethical obligation to tell them the truth.. Get a clue..

[@franzhulk2947]

@@mysticjedi6730 Which Populations have that been? Eating fat to get fat.. thats not that easy actually. Carbs are your better bet by far

[@mysticjedi6730]

@@franzhulk2947 fat is deposited in your fat stores. Carbohydrates in your muscles and liver. The thinnest populations eat high carb low fat. The Oxford epic study. The Adventist health studies. Endless other epidemiology.. in the long term we know what works. I am not denying you can't lose weight in caloric deficit with any diet. The question is what is best and healthiest long term. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

[@VillainMcKillin]

Binging your content, wish I would have found you earlier. I love skeptical analysis, there is way to many people saying things like “Veganism sucks because James is a moron.” Or something like that. I just want facts. Thanks.

[@shpongle7322]

I’m definitely not a dietician or know much of anything about nutrition, but I just don’t understand how there’s so many healthy meat eating people. How is that if meat is bad for you? It just doesn’t make sense at all.

[@ironbound8438]

What ever happened to a good old fashion well rounded diet? Good lean protein for optimal muscle growth, quality carb source for sustained energy and fiber of course and a healthy fat source for organ health ,hormone production etc...? Geez man. All these fad extreme diets are just stupid

[@SeaDawgOST]

Dude the science shows its fucking terrbile for you!

[@krystal8812]

Global warming happened , inhumane ways of approaching animal agriculture .. The carbon footprint Idk Change of ethics and the availability of good alternatives that are just better for overall health when it’s done right (like any diet ever)

[@nicolisampson6489]

@John Decker you can't murder an animal and a cannibal is an individual that eats its own species are not a cannibal if you eat a cow also we are natural omnivores we literally evolved to eat meat

[@goofNorton]

@@nicolisampson6489 I tell people that lol we have these sharp teeth called canines to tear apart meat not veggies. Last time I check deer have flat teeth

[@nicolisampson6489]

Goof Norton exactly if you look at our teeth versus deer teeth our teeth are quite different our teeth have canines for tearing incisors to bite off pieces and molars to chew deer teeth are flat and are used to chew only plants

[@bigbobsbbqgoodeats3239]

Layne, you and Holly did a great job on this video, thanks so much to both of you.

[@ivanorozco4274]

no joke! Just found this bloke and subbed to his channel a few days ago, This vid is the bomb , real solid work

[@thomassylvestro9041]

The two of you are awesome. I saw the film, and found myself feeding into the information shared. I have read two of Your books, so I know better, but I still questioned what I know. Thank you for this video to put me back on track. Another great video...

[@mitchell9824]

Glad they’re are people like you out here educating people like me. Respect to you

[@daensanchez3821]

Yes! I let myself get fooled for a couple days by that dumb documentary/fictional bias story

[@aboynamedjayy]

For people wondering how much more protein vegans and vegetarians need, it’s 1.8 times the normal recommendations for whichever type training style you is being utilized.

[@richardmock3198]

Two things I got from this, game changers is full of shit, and that lady is GORGEOUS!!!! 🤩

[@desireblue21]

Can you look into the blue zones and all research about these zones

[@danpenia219]

Yeahhh

[@kevinraum7749]

I recall hearing that a lot of blue zone regions with the oldest populations are also areas with the worst keeping of public records so, similar to why a caloric deficit isnt working, the explanation might have to do with misreporting data.

[@billsmith8825]

I've looked into the blue zones and you'll find that there's one thing in common no matter where these blue zones are located. They're on the coastline. Those people eat lots of fish which are high in omega-3 fatty acids, something most people are deficient in.

[@kevinraum7749]

@@andrewmccool5923 Sorry I worded that strangely. I was saying that I recall hearing that a lot of those blue zone regions where people are living the longest and seem to be alarming outliers are also areas that don't keep good track of birth records so part of that phenomena might be attributed to people misreporting their age. Still a damn good idea to eat a few servings of fatty fish though!

[@danpenia219]

I think it's because they eat a lot of veggies (low in calories, very satiating, mostly soups) and they are very thin. If you are in a caloric deficit/you are skinny (this has been proven scientifically, even Layne talks about it) you will live longer. In Loma Linda, California, they are vegans/vegetarians so I have no idea why they live longer except for that. Omega-3 is great for the brain so I guess if you have a healthier brain somehow you could live longer for some reason.

[@605783]

I personally tried meat / no meat for several months... I feel better on Veggies (less joint pain, feel and sleep well, still muscular, better energy). I still eat cheese and fish. Your body may be different 😊

[@extracoolboy]

same, I think the real change for most people is healthier eating habits overall. Does not matter if you eat couple of eggs or a fish here and there.

[@NoName-to5xl]

I kinda agree. For me the veggie diet makes me feel better if I dont eat processed foods.. if I eat those it nullifies the improvement, as far i can tell. Veggies make me feel better than meat, but the real difference for me is NO PROCESSED. In the end vegetarian 5 days and 2 days meat with no processed keeps me at my best.

[@abcxyz4653]

@@NoName-to5xl so you’re an omnivore….just like the the majority of people and what this video is defending. You’re not on a veggie diet.

[@Grawwler]

Thanks for making the time to do this video. I can now have arguments from both sides

[@Johnny.bar99]

29:45 Can someone link me that study?

[@franbelanovic979]

Great video you guys. Layne, always a pleasure hearing an unbiased academic like yourself. A dying breed indeed!

[@thedoctor.a.s1401]

4.45: didn't they actually say in the documentary that the "Gladiators were Predominantly Vegetarian" not completely?

[@senkkella7664]

yep....

[@NeoFryBoy]

But not for physical performance.

[@raimahossain2174]

Yep. This guy seems to paraphrase a lot of things to change the meaning conveyed in the film.

[@thedoctor.a.s1401]

@@NeoFryBoy wdym?

[@Corrans]

I am SO glad you put this out there!!!! Instinctively I found this documentary was off.

[@TheSimonboyle]

Who is the other person in this video? KZbin channel?

[@garnet6106]

Thank you! Awesome info! So tired of the fear-mongering and misinformation being spread. I have nothing against vegans or any particular diets but I can’t stand when people spread lies and propaganda to push specific dietary patterns.

[@EmeseVida]

once you recognize the pain that's inflicted on animals, you'll do anything to stop it.

[@havanadaurcy1321]

​@@EmeseVida Dear vegans: You are not helping us at all, anything for our extinctions right? Just don't eat us right? Signed: Native animals who are being killed by feral (introduced) animals HUMANS brought in

[@dreamfortress4772]

@@EmeseVida no❤️🥩

[@dreamfortress4772]

@@EmeseVida the bloodier and crueler the better🥩

[@dreamfortress4772]

you are not a squirrel you are not a cow. EAT MEAT! 🥩

[@GaryHighFruit]

You are not a squirrel. Don't eat nuts You are not a cow. Don't eat grass. You are a primate. Eat fruit.

[@Brandonnnnnn]

What would have made your Connor v. Nate point much stronger.... Connor was not only jumping weight classes, he took the change of opponent within the last 10 days I believe. Nate was training for a triathlon, Connor was preparing for a 155 pound Ju Jitsu specialist... Connor gassed out fighting the bigger fighter.... THE PART THAT COMPLETELY SET OFF MY BULLSHIT ALARM.... In the rematch... at the same weight class... when Connor prepared.... he won... they didn't mention that part.... how convenient

[@wrestling4sure]

Didn’t finish him tho 😂

[@trevbarlow9719]

You're overusing elipses (...), brah

[@niranjanchavhan9368]

But do you know about forest plot....and hiw to read it??

[@dylanb6425]

The researchers and scientists are researchers and scientists first, silly.

[@PrimoPete]

Clearly they cannot be taken out of context or wrong...

[@PrimoPete]

@Golden Knight I did, and have argued this nonsense months ago. Cherry picking and filed with logical fallacies that's what the film represents. Again, most of the claims have been debunked wonderfully in this video. But keep on with the ad hominems.

[@PrimoPete]

@Golden Knight Really? Disprove one thing the video claimed. Hell, just explain how it is wrong. You are delusional my friend, I understand you have had your run ins with absolute anti-vegans who also spout nonsense, but do realize that you can't defend the undefensible. Vegans just happen to be on the later side far more often. Also, don't ask me to make an argument when you are the one who came into the conversation with nothing but an empty rhetoric. As I see it the ball is in your court, the arguments have been made so "debunk" them. You can't just say "the video is wrong meatard" and parade the ad-hominam as a defence, first refute it empirically maybe then we can argue.

[@NicholasRachuna]

Do something on “ionic foot baths” please and thanks

[@bradfry2259]

You mention the keto diet near there end and the high protein in it, I would have thought with protein of those levels it wouldn't technically be keto because of the resulting gluconeogenesis more than likely creating the effect of moderate carbohydrates. I don't know just asking.

[@wrestle4life234]

Nah. Even with the gluconeogenesis that comes with keto (around 120 or so grams a day at the start but possibly decreasing as you get more ketone adapted), you definitely gon get plenty of ketosis going on. Gluconeogenesis is expensive and the body don’t wanna make an excessive amount of glucose if it don’t need to

[@hooman9e]

You forgot that they didnt mention the rematch where Conor kicks Nates ass

[@tonyx8750]

Cherry picking research and remember the rematch with McGregor and Diaz ( not even mentioned ).

[@robinkumarjakhar4968]

Conor said it himself

[@milosbrkanovic948]

Nate won that fight as well LOL . Judges just gave it to the UFC poster boy

[@perryjl12]

Nate definitely did not win the second fight.

[@bvillacorta13]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking.

[@waynekerr9423]

OMG, I know this comment WON'T get posted because it's against everything this Channel and Holly "the true experts" believe, DON'T FALL for this video channel and what they teach on this Channel people. Why are they trying to convince you that the Game Changers documentary is incorrect it's very simple....it's BECAUSE IT GOES AGAINTS everything they believe the products they endorse and make money from so of course they aren't going to talk about all the bad chemicals injected into animals which of course are going to be in your body once you consume the meat. Watching this video was very hard and talk about CHERRY PICKING, that's exacting what they themselves in this video are doing. Again the reason this channel does not support the facts in the documentary is because they would have take down this channel because their channel is against everything which is said in the documentary. Do you think for a minute that the people in this video don't really need money, THEY DO however that being said, it's biolayne and Holly you should be really questioning not the people who produced a fact based documentary. Wake up people, this channel is going to tell you whatever and everything they can to get you to stay and believe in what they are saying so you will continue watching their channel. What a joke, Holly saying she's disappointed in Arnold, I'm sure he's laughing at your comment........................wake up people.

[@juliametcalf2660]

Back in the 70s "Diet for a Small Planet" mentioned combining plants to get essential amino acids for protein, but didn't talk about proportions or lectins, oxalate, or any of the other plant anti nutrients that restrict absorbtion ...been lied to

[@adrianchng7184]

A friend just asked about the Game Changers. I shared this video with him and rewatched it myself

[@bomboy422]

such science! weird stereo audio things going on though.

[@Donttreadonme2024]

The whole Gladiator thing is crazy. Gladiators were freaking slaves. They didn't eat a lot of meat most likely because they were slaves

[@aFutureSelf]

Andrew McCool how do you know that.

[@aFutureSelf]

Andrew McCool so you don’t know. Literally everyone on about this vegetarian gladiator thing doesn’t really know the reasons why they eat what they ate because it’s just one of those things you’ll never know for sure unless you lived in that time and were a dietician for a gladiator. Their diets and the reasoning behind their diets can only be speculated yet people act as if they know for -fact- and use that to advocate for or against vegetarian and plant based only diets. Just read PotatZo’s comment above. “That’s why they were fed a vegetarian diet.” How the fuck would he know. And what’s even dumber is they use examples from a completely biased Netflix show that advocates for only one position. Doubt they knew anything about gladiator diets before the show. It’s the equivalent of using twitter as your only source of news and only reading things you already agree with. Also, our athletes and fighters of today are trained using the pinnacle of known history’s technology, science, and knowledge of dietetics and nutrition. I highly doubt that our best wouldn’t be able to match a gladiator. That’s assuming we had one of ours trained for that type of fight.

[@Sharkyktc001]

07:41 I've never heard anyone pronounce gluconeogenesis like that before

[@walkie1985]

it's kinda fun hearing a new way

[@nate5574]

Right, never heard it before, i think she ment to say that your nody is Cannibalizing itself because it's not getting the carbohydrates it needs lol

[@danielm0rk]

She probably looked up for the first time, guessed how it was supposed to be pronounced and misrepresented it while doing it.

[@pinzon194]

@@danielm0rk HAHA I think its because she's australian

[@defeqel6537]

it also uses protein and fat, not just protein to turn into carbs..

[@eugenepoon]

If Baboumian is a "strongman", Jeremy Clarkson is a "racecar driver"

[@ronaldp.vincent8226]

It is also theorized that gladiators were actually fat. It would have given them more protection against puncture and slash wounds from swords.

[@Julesccx]

OMG. We were watching this in health and I knew it!! I knew something in this movie was completely off. Thank you so much for making me aware of this.

[@bendietrees]

HyperCharged nice to see schools pushing that bullshit.

[@DerekBoldiene360]

Maybe you should do your research 1st because not all meat is good for your only grass fed beef all the other ones are put through growth hormones in everything which can cause sickness sickness to your gut

[@exception75]

The first debunking video for the movie I saw, that makes solid statements without leaning too much into opinion. Nonetheless I will give the plant based diet a try and see how it affects my health but also my performance in powerlifting. I think there are much worse things i could try. Thanks for your work and cheers from germany.

[@ThomasAT86]

​@Sven3xs There seems to be a tendency...the more aggressive, offensive, defensive, close-minded, generalizing, unwilling to share actual information and sharing of studies they obviously haven't understood or even read, the more I think those people are sucked into a deep hole of dogmatism and lost a sense of objectiveness and open-mindedness. It's sad and scary to see people go down this route, blindly following others, trying to convince people around them, ignoring facts and finding excuses if someone got sick or even died.

[@justinw1765]

@@ThomasAT86 Sure, but I see a lot of this on both (all) sides. And some of the most rabid and dogmatic people I've seen are the "Carnivores".

[@ThomasAT86]

​@@justinw1765 My comment is 2 years old, what are you doing? And yes, I don't see me having said anything against that?!

[@bretthaley7993]

How did it work for you?

[@cringeproof100]

What are your thoughts after 3 years?

[@wrestle4life234]

Pretty sure ruminants extract protein from bacteria in their bellies that extract the protein from plants. They’re an intermediate also containing an intermediate. All point to the fact that mammals have a bit of a tough time with plant proteins

[@HakuCell]

29:57 the absolute risk of disease only goes from 5% (without meat) to 6% (with meat), but ofc the film only gives you the relative risk increase that is 20%, because 1% is the 20% of 5%. 37:21 animal agriculture is 8.7% of global emissions, while the transportation sector is 27%, and electricity is over 30%.

[@drudizzle1]

Do meat eating strongmen not take supplements or protein shakes? I’m confused how that takes anything away from his achievement. He also does not claim to have the current world record for the yoke, he claims to be a world record holder, which at one point in time is true.

[@uttralcaroo6543]

14:29.... oh my god.... "they were cherry picking this athelete" 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@crlotero]

He had a world record because he created his own event. Any top ten strongman can break whatever world record he creates at a time of thier choosing.

[@uttralcaroo6543]

@@crlotero oh, I see! you're one of those joe rogan fanboys

[@Metalmachine18]

Drudell Kelly no one said it takes away from his achievements. It takes away from the credibility that Veganism is the sole cause of his achievements. No one has ever said that he isn’t an insanely strong guy, he is. But is he one of the worlds strongest men? No. Did veganism cause his gains? No. Are all the strongmen athletes that compete in Worlds strongest man (an event he’s never been invited to even trial for) eating an omnivore diet? Yes. Whoops

[@sevirz13]

The dude is not a truly elite lifter, it's been proven. Might be strong, but not even top 100

[@CancelledPhilosopher]

This is waaasay better than the debate between James Wilks and Chris Kresser on Joe Rogan's podcast:

[@whowouldwininafight3152]

@@xtdude I think that debate needs to happen....I Think Layne would hold his own and not collapse,but everyone cherry picks. i would love to see James's counter-arguements to this video.

[@luissainz5874]

Unlike Kresser, Layne has a PHD

[@CancelledPhilosopher]

@@xtdude You're saying that Layne Norton is misrepresenting the documentary and cherry picking studies? How so? And his LDL level is 140? Why is that bad? What is his HDL level? Is there actually a correlation between high LDL levels and increased risk of heart attacks?

[@CancelledPhilosopher]

@@luissainz5874 Yup. Unlike Wilks too.

[@asseltee]

Scott Jurek did not claim high protein gave him his great endurance...

[@petio1akrobata]

Great insight! Could someone explain however how 1% risk is turned to 20% relative risk? Didn't manage to understand it

[@PS-cr9lm]

5% risk became 6% so although that’s a 1% increase 6% is 20% bigger than 5% hence 20% relative risk

[@petio1akrobata]

@@PS-cr9lm ooh, thanks!

[@TaraLynnNelson]

I can’t believe that’s how you ended the video... Dead 💀🤣😂.... Great videos guys! 👍🏻👏🏻

[@spytung]

Just searched, Layne Norton has a PhD in Nutrition Science so I’m listening hahq

[@GaryHighFruit]

He's still comming from a disingenuous position, and you can see it clearly if you watch the debunk videos.

[@spytung]

@@GaryHighFruit oh there are videos debunking his debunk?

[@GaryHighFruit]

@@spytung Yep. I have 2 myself.

[@slaphappyduplenty2436]

Great audio editing.

[@williamnichols429]

I can't say if beet root juice makes you stronger but it did wonders for my BP.

[@pathpaths9740]

In what world are barely and legumes ”Simple carbohydrates”???

[@corty1980]

Yep how can you believe anything from someone that cannot even get this simple thing correct.

[@lisafowler3606]

Golden Knight this dude is a rancher/farmer he said and he always wants facts! Hahaha but never provides any utterly hilarious

[@lisafowler3606]

Golden Knight it’s so insane that we actually have to explain that plants are good for you and meat is bad. Don’t these people want to live long and have epic boners well into old age?! No... okay! I feel bad for their wives lmao

[@nicolisampson6489]

Golden Knights humans aren't herbivores we are natural omnivores also other primates eat meat too such as the chimpanzees and chimpanzees are the closest related primate to us also we have the digestive track of an omivore enzymes to break down meat and we have a pH of 1.5 this is th pH of a meat eater and we have stamia over speed something only shown in predatory animals and we have the most stamina out of any mammal we are omnivores

[@pathpaths9740]

Nicoli Sampson that stuff does not even matter all that matters is health outcome and heavy plant based eaters have the best health outcomes.

[@mynameisben123]

Nice to see a video cut through all the sensationalism and quite frankly deception.

[@alaynaharstine8585]

Thank you both so much for making this video. As a Dietetics student preparing for my internship, I am so thankful that there are people out there using science to disprove wild nutrition claims. Seriously thank you and I love the channel!!!!!

[@simonweiss7785]

Paleo is the only food,, cult " that makes complete sense to me from a physiological perspective. Considering the fact that our ancestors had perform ultramarathons to get meat might also balance out the downsides meat has on the cardiovascular system imho

[@simonweiss7785]

How?

[@simonweiss7785]

@Golden Knight I'm not arguing about studies etc. I'm arguing about the reasoning behind the diet which is scientific imo

[@soolio]

They're bangin' for sure.

[@gregofthedump7614]

Engaged I think..

[@biolayne1]

Jamie McDonald sure hope so. She married me

[@rafaelyser7935]

@@biolayne1 can't bang with all that meat you're eating!

[@noahclayborne1240]

@@biolayne1 ayyyyyyy! Good onya mate!

[@yungunz88]

Layne. Start a podcast or something. I need extra protein watching you guys stand there.

[@SavitaipaleenSonni]

The gladiator argument is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, can't believe someone would ever put it in any serious film or "documentary"