The Great Bike Seat Conundrum (bike fit update with semi pro Alisha Wells )

[@roadcyclingacademy]

Re ‘other saddle’ from Neill: it's an AliExpress special, called a Mixed 5D. It's almost a copy of a Seller Italia San Marco short fit

[@Ghostina1]

I tried this Ali version. But now I have the genuine Shortfit 2.0 3D Carbon FX ... A hell of a difference I must admit.

[@stefanohbellote9948]

I'm using this model for about 1yr now (old version, it used to be pointy at the back exactly like the San Marco shortfit) and gotta say the quality and finishing is really good! 8.000km by now and still going strong as day 1

[@mebunzing]

Have both the Ali and the SQlab. Both are very comfortable and durable

[@sethmccann7770]

I bought this saddle on Neil’s recc. I’m surprised by the quality and how ridiculously light it is. I’m having a little trouble dialing it in. I think I’ve finally got a comfortable tilt but I’m not totally sure if I’m sitting on it “properly”. I’m mostly on the flat front part. I give it a slight rise.. maybe a degree or two and my stuff basically hangs over the front. My sit bones gently rest on the wings but don’t get much pressure. Pressure is mostly on those bones kinda just behind the taint-y area. I’m not used to feeling the saddle there so I think I’m in an adjustment phase. How does that sound?

[@iacobp]

I have two of these. Best seat so far

[@Mark_Wolton]

This guy is absolutely brilliant at his explanation. Every episode he is clear and so well spoken. Top quality! Also, I wish I had the budget to try a bunch of different seats!

[@troycollett8540]

Many bike shops offer test saddles you can try for a week or two for free

[@tomereckhous1175]

That fix for the hood angle is just brilliant 👏

[@grantmcalpine6364]

Your videos are pure genius. I wish we had more Niel's in the World. 🙂

[@bikesavvy3654]

Fantastic working through to find a solution.

[@JohnnyRabbitQC]

I just got a SMP Dynamic after watching your videos. It's the most comfortable I ever tried. I think they look really good and I actually find other saddles ugly now! hahaha!

[@cityslacker6221]

I’m in awe of Neil’s talent.

[@Big_Island_Boi]

"SMP for Life!" That's my motto, too. I've got a bunch of them but I'm always surprised how few other riders I every come across that have them.

[@imspartacvs]

Awesome... never thought to add shims under the hoods ... what a great idea!!! Live To Ride... Ride To Live

[@Jari1973]

Thanks again for the video! All comments are knowledgeable and to the point.. But I would like to say that Alisha is also very cute 🥰

[@markusseppala6547]

I've always used pieces of handlebar tape similar to that foam to make the hood to bar transition more flat and comfortable.

[@fuchi75]

Never thought about inserting foam underneath the hood... Thanks will try it!

[@Mikeatcitycycle]

Your handiness and confidence with adjustments requiring tools is very good. Chapeau!

[@gttim]

After decades of being comfortable on the saddle, the Selle Italia Mythos in the old days to the Specialized Romin Evo more recently, I suddenly was struggling to avoid sores after riding long distances. I tried a number of different saddles but the problems persisted. I ordered a new gravel bike and because of supply chain issue, it rather randomly came with a Repente Quasar 2.0 Saddle. Suddenly all my issues went away. The wide back and the narrow front alleviated all my position issues. I have since ordered a second one for my road bike. No more sores on the inside of my legs and no more sore sit bones. Crazy how it all works.

[@geothunder1971]

Really like your videos! I've been trying your different positioning setups, cleat shims, crank length, and am virtually pain free in my riding position now. Selle SMP is a great saddle design a little fugly but I've been riding them since 2006 with no issues.

[@bromptinowner763]

Ride the SMP TRK slightly up at the front, love it !!

[@rct8884]

I too had issues with saddles rubbing since I have a narrow pelvis. I tried most saddles and could not find that "goldy locks" fit until I tried the Selle San Marco Shortfit in their "narrow" size. The Selle San Marco fit me perfectly and have been finding on it for 3 years now and they are reasonably priced as well. Have an SMP on my steel Cinelli and may end up trying one for my SL6, just that they are expensive and somewhat heavy for a saddle. I know, I know, comfort over weight (closet weight weenie) 😊.

[@WstalSprzedKompa]

Question to Neil: Have you ever tried sadle pressure mapping on SMP saddles? My bike fitter did that for my 2 SMP saddles and results were horrible. He gave me another, flat sadle on which mapping seemed to be great and I couldn't do 20 kilometers on it because of pain :D So, I don't believe pressure mapping anymore.

[@VIEultimate]

Not Neil, but honestly if your fitter just completely relies on sensors to tell you which setup to use rather than what you say (your feedback) and what they see (or at least a mix of these), then that's a red flag already. Neil himself also said something similar to this before.

[@samuel8590]

Neil. Also have her try the Flite Boost with the cut out in a 145. I too kept having issues with many types of saddles that flare out on the sides. The Flite boost is straight all the way through the sides and then BANG it kicks out at the back right where it needs too.I'm a VERY happy man with this saddle. Took me a long time to find one that is PERFECT.

[@roadcyclingacademy]

Interesting to hear. Thanks for sharing on the thread

[@Percevalois]

This guy is really awesome

[@MrAudioBill]

Excellent idea of altering the hood shape

[@vasipro]

That's me. I switched from sqlab 610/611 to Selle SMP Trk. Bike messenger, 20.000 kilometers per year.

[@jragonwriter6316]

Thanks for bringing the update! I was hoping to see this. And hopefully even more to come once it's all straightened out for her!

[@david.vandergoes]

Is that saddle setback UCI legal? The nose of the saddle looks almost even with the BB.

[@baribari600]

What does Neil think about the brand-new F20C/30C S.I. saddles? It's like they made a compromise between the conventional SMP design and the flatter, more traditional F / VT series. I like the blacked out look. Still too expensive to just buy one without trying it, and there are no SMP demo shops anywhere nearby.

[@LittleBU96]

Hey guys! just a quick mention, when I went to my local bikeshop where I have bought and spent plenty of time learning different techniques in there as a 13 year old, I have noticed on the owner's bike that they had a saddle that looked like the smp and it was fully carbon, I was a bit nosy and I asked where they got it and they said that they asked a chinese man if they could make a carbon saddle for them and he said yes so the shop owner gave him the template and design and ordered a 100 of them to sell, it sold it within a few months and cost ridiculously less, they cost around 2000 baht which is around only 55 USD! so yeah if u wanted one just like find a manufacturing company in china pretty easy to find.

[@katerinifloudas]

I love my SMP ,I use the evolution for 10 years!!!

[@mib7483]

Wish you were in the US so I could have you fix my saddle problems. My wife rides the SMP and loves it.

[@commonsensethecynosure1639]

How did it end, successfully or unsuccessfully?

[@_cpdchua]

Amazing fit from Neil! But is it just me or the bars are too wide???

[@GianniPhat]

Super confused as to how the SMP Blaster, with a 131mm width, works for her with sit bones >130mm - amd in the prior video you suggested a 150-something saddle vs the 143 she was on. Is it because of her pelvic rotation?

[@kelvin7511]

What is the update with the seat?

[@DerRofflers]

Great video again. I always had issues with the sides of the saddle clipping my legs so I tried the Selle Italia SLR Boost and SLR in both S and L as well as the XLR for funsies. I came to the same conclusion that the taper on the Boost is just too wide and while the XLR seems to be narrower it's still somewhat uncomfortable. Ended up with the SLR in L because the taper feels narrower than the Boost's. The Flite Flow that came with my gravel bike also seems to work well.

[@emmabird9745]

I've been riding SMP for years, the turned down nose make tons of difference. You slipped that bit about foam under the hoods there, I absolutelty must try it to see if it helps with the numbness on the outside of the palm. Thanks in anticipation.

[@charlieuk-b5y]

Great video, but what is " the other" saddle. You don't tell us the make and model?

[@trajtemberg]

Isn't the handlebar a bit too wide?

[@myxti3669]

Yes

[@truthseeker8483]

SMP saddles are the only ones I use.......they are curved because our rear ends are curved.....makes sense really

[@raidaman1]

I have the exact SMP Blaster and a Hybrid on another bike, and looking to buy another!

[@MayHusseini]

Question for Neil: In video, you mentioned that given the design of the SMP saddle, the pelvis sits all the way to the back of the saddle. Any recommendation on how many mm to adjust SMP saddle forward when switching from previous saddle setting? Many thanks

[@DISCOhooch]

6 days ago i move Selle SMP too. But a little problem with setback.

[@onstagephotography]

I got me 3 smp saddles. There great. My search has ended

[@poxcr]

1:44 SMP saddles would look so much better just by ditching the tacky lettering and that hideous badge on the rear!

[@aaronerickson2182]

why does she have a set back seat post and the seat itself is set so far forward? Would it be better with a regular seat post and then the seat would be more centered on the rails?

[@MrJaycobsen]

Selle italia Flite boost is saddle to try too, it has more of a t shape.

[@Cyclingchoice]

Niel can you please comment on internally rotated hoods for average road cyclist? Wouldn't your wrist position force the elbows to come out ? Also wouldn't it cause internal rotation of the shoulders?

[@seanmccuen6970]

yes, no, maybe. or something.

[@Bradbajc]

6:30 What are these SRAM hoods we see here??

[@vongdong10]

Pretty sure they're the new sram force

[@jimygallegolozano9650]

Nice content, great tips. Just a question, I've tried different types of saddles, but no luck so far. I want to give a shot to SMP, however where I live I can only find the VT20, VT30 and well, what are your thoughts about those?

[@maarten_zappos9189]

Im confused didnt she have remarkably wide seatbones? Shouldnt she get the wide version of all saddles then? Also seems like handlebar width is still on the wide side as her hands still 'bend' inwards?

[@mopedtobias9049]

Is size of the relief channel most important to prevent penile numbness? What other factors could cause it?

[@IonutLucianComanNexus]

For Neil: Could you gave some basic setups for the SMP saddle on a mountain bike ?

[@MegaRiff77]

You mentioned in the previous video that she has wide sit bones, why did you choose the most narrow smp for her in that case? Just curious!

[@ralphmartinez8616]

Can you comment about how she felt with the new saddle soreness she would have from the shims? You mentioned it on the last video with her

[@Eirikkinserdal]

That seatpost is the reason israel premier tech is using the ostro gravel seatpost with a better clamping system( top and bottom)

[@tobiasd8791]

Small Hack regarding the hammering of the seatpost clamp mechanism. Try a montage paste called "anti seize" by a famous japanese brand (no affiliations). Apply a firm layer between the cone and the seatpost "cup". Worked fine on my 2019 canyon aeroad. No problem even trying out different saddle angles on the flight. PS: Awesome and Knowledgefull Approach

[@global_nomad.]

great episode, and just goes to show that how something looks isnt the same as how it feels...would like to get a better discussion on the padding in the hoods - never seen that mentioned anywhere before - having turned my hoods inwards to get a better wrist angle, i am feeling some pressure on hands that wasn't there before

[@troycollett8540]

Would be interesting to see how you suggest setting up an indoor bike bike the neo or kickr bike

[@rafaz28]

So what saddle is the other one you showed?

[@roadcyclingacademy]

@Neill hopefully sees this. I wasn’t there! Cam

[@rajeshkannan_s]

It is selle San Marco short fit

[@nationsnumber1chump]

Huh, I was riding a Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio Flow, always got holes in my bib shorts. But after switching to a Bontrager Arvada Comp I won at a local race, it seems to not rub as much, but I noticed if I don't point the nose down a little more it will start getting sore faster. On my gravel bike I have a Specialized Bridge Sport that came with it, and with certain bibs it feels way better but my position is also slightly lower knee angle for the bumps. Why don't you prefer the 3D printed ones like Fizik and Specialized have? I noticed Selle Italia has these also now and considered selling my selle italia since its still worth the $300.

[@Naomi_Boyd]

Usually, when my hands go numb, it's a problem with the saddle and not the bars. It's either too high or tilted too far forward and forcing me to put extra weight on my shoulders and wrists.

[@charlespackwood9219]

Could Neil do a review of the app called bff elite for bike fitting

[@russstarke6004]

SMP - Forgive the pun, but what's the point? If the point is curved down and out of the way, why have it? And what is up with the seatpost setback? The saddle is all the way forward.

[@mauricetremblay1324]

Just too bad you are so far away. I will need to head back down under one day. Cheers!

[@sparkvideos77]

SMP for life 👍🏾

[@MiQ0707]

Love the fitting videos, very informative and well explained. But no way i'd ever use an SMP saddle no matter how good they are for a fit lol.

[@markkirschling9340]

Neil, do you ever measure your riders sit bone width by having them sit on cardboard? Then start the saddle selection process based on that measured width? Or this more relevant if riding in more upright positions on the bike. Thanks for sharing your expertise.

[@mr_musette]

he does this on the initial video with this rider

[@abedfo88]

Neil's Eagle impression is youtube short material 😂

[@EmrysJones]

Should your arms be that straight? Looks like she's fully locking arms sometimes

[@mrwhiteshorts]

Neill, What do you think of the Tune Komm-Vor saddle? Its surely a copy of something else. Coming off an Arione, it felt phenominal. Literally amazing, just wanted to know your thoughts, cheers. m

[@Adz01992]

anyone else just got that hub sound on repeat!

[@l0s3rke]

I have watched the video 3 times now. Does Neill ever say the name of the other type of saddle that Alisha has to try besides the SMP? Great Video as per usual!

[@yarlon2014]

Really wanna know aswell!

[@arlandmacasieb2113]

I would try a specialized power mimic with her 150mm. Or a mirror if she need softer.

[@mafiaracers1]

why not offer a narrower bar width? It's clearly 1, maybe 2 sizes too wide. Would probably solve the hand issue.

[@madmonkeycycling9098]

10 years on SMP saddles and never going to change

[@bonbonflippers4298]

I ride only selle smp now after trying so many saddles. The smp gets rid of all the central pressure for me. I plan to buy another for my 3rd bike. They are expensive but worth the invested time riding them. They only look ugly when there is no one riding the bike but that shouldn't matter if you can have comfort over long hours.

[@vasipro]

Sqlab 611 is good for me using it at mtb aggressive riding. For road, selle smp trk is amazing.

[@newoldsteel]

Geez these new seatposts….glad I don’t have to deal with them with my steel bikes 😅

[@EdwardGuevarra-jr3ec]

What don’t she try ordinary specialized power saddle? She was using power mimic which is like power arc.

[@Youtubefana]

Is hand numbness not more related to reach and high saddle height?

[@roadcyclingacademy]

Neill gives a detailed answer on this one here kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZOpo61re9h8pdk

[@troycollett8540]

@@roadcyclingacademy would that be one reason some riders tilt their levers in

[@vongdong10]

What's the deal with offset seatposts? He had to basically move her saddle all the eay forward so she could be in a neutral position...

[@maarten_zappos9189]

not really its so that the angle of the seatpost stay, the frame etc can be more vertical while still having the same horizontal distance between saddle attachment point and bottom bracket compared to older style bikes, so its offset to make up for frame shape.. its because the shape of the saddle that it has to go more to the front than expected

[@MrFornicater]

Blaster has worked really well for me, a lot better than the deep cradle of the popular Dynamic. Also, that seatpost design is horrendous!

[@ShadowzKiller]

For me, saddle choice was problematic for over two years because I have narrow sit bones (108mm) but large quads and semi-curved and curved saddles make my hip fall forward too easily and put pressure on sensitive tissue (which also gave me lower back pain). Saddles with large cutouts do not work because when I rotate my hips, my sitting area feels too narrow for the actual cutout. Very few manufactures make saddles that are completely flat (both from nose to nose and side to side) and narrow with little to no cutout. While Niell and Bike fit James, Bikefit advisor, etc. often mention that saddle discomfort is often not the issue, if you are struggling too much with your bikefit, it really could be the saddle.

[@ThePawelekPawelek]

With saddle is like with running shoes, you’ll never know if they are good for you, even if you spend all day in the store testing it, unless you’ll take them on a few runs or rides if it is saddle.

[@emersonlindenlaub8124]

bout to fly from America for a bike fit 😂

[@edwarding4355]

Her handlebar width?

[@mtbgo7860]

Specialized mirror has to be an option for every rider at this point.

[@tparker3701]

That Factor is stunning. The SMP saddle is ugly Alisha but remember, no one can see it when you’re riding !!

[@mikekelly1771]

25 years it took me to find my saddle. Selle SMP it is.

[@pchlars5666]

What is the update? Was SMP the answer again? Did the "eagle" get the warm? 😂

[@WECR]

Las Bielas y el Manubrio parecen ser muy grandes para ella, se entiende que las marcas la auspicien con material pero también deberían cuidar al ciclista y hacérle el equipo a medida, yá quw ella es jóven para así cuidárle el físico.

[@ebsalonga]

The SRAM groupset on her bike might just be the new Red. Probably yeah?

[@marcelahurtado4100]

Spent about 500 miles on it and so far so good. kzbin.infoUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA Pros:1. Very light2. Solid quality build3. Fast delivery: It arrived 5 weeks earlier than expected.4. Easy assemblyJust a few cons but nothing major:1. Cheap tin tubes and had flat on first day... but not a big deal. I replaced the tubes.2. Seat is a bit uncomfortable but that's pretty much the same situation with most bikes.3. Seat post is a bit long/high for a smaller size 48 bike - had to saw 2 inch off to fit properly. The lowest setting is too high. The post locking system does not seem to hold well (perhaps because I saw 2 inch off).4. wheels are not tubeless compatible (from what I can tell)

[@andrewshore9709]

Without using saddle pressure mapping software surely aren’t we just guessing here ?

[@troycollett8540]

No better method than actually trying a saddle

[@edsassler]

Saddle comfort often comes down to how the rider rotates forward. If there is a lot of lower back flexibility, they can sit solidly on their sit bones. As the pelvis rotates forward the pressure decreases on the back of the saddle and the surface area at the flair gets loaded. The Specialized power saddle is what I use as an example of a sit bone location saddle, it’s almost 2 dimensional, the edges drop away sharply. In stark contrast there are saddles like the Fizik Aleante which have no flat section at all on the back, but have lots of surface area rolled down the sides which is where most of the weight winds up. The funny thing is that you can see when someone is on the wrong saddle. If a rider is on a saddle that’s rolled down, and they’re looking for a flat section on the back of the saddle to sit on, they’re hips will rock as they pedal because they’re sitting on a pipe. If a rider rotates forward from the pelvis and they’re on a sit bone saddle it’ll feel like the flair of the saddle is cutting into them, and any hip impingement gets much worse. There are a few saddles that combine elements of both designs, like the Specialized Phenom. It’s really their Romin saddle with the edges rolled down. They also make a Power Arc, but shorter saddles have a sharper flair (same width, shorter saddle) so they tend not to work that well. The SMP is an interesting saddle, they’ve clearly taken a skeleton and put in a riding position and removed all the interference from the fit.

[@n0ch91c3s]

I recommend prying the saddle clamp pieces out instead of hitting one from the other side. Screwdriver or whatever into the bolt hole, and pry downward.

[@roadcyclingacademy]

Thanks for the tip, we'll let Neill know. Although I am sure there's a good explanation for it. Knowing Neill!

[@kidsafe]

Delete this. Prying apart two rigid interference-fit cylindrical/conical parts is AWFUL advice. Alternating taps with a wooden or plastic dowel so the cones don’t get cocked is the way to go. In a pinch a large hex key like Neill is using will do.

[@n0ch91c3s]

@@kidsafe in general, I agree with yoy. Here though, they're not really conical, they're more spherical. They're also very shallow and a very steep angle. It's 100% fine.

[@raevynlen]

She’s rocking like made from the back why are you saying that’s fine

[@JibbaJabber]

Neil. With regards to the saddle - it may be an ugly, but if it does the job who cares. Which reminds me, how's Cam? Does he still ride one? BTW, those saddle adjustment designs are a joke. I've got a similar style one my Trek Domane and I hate it. Should be phased out.

[@thedronescene7474]

Sram hoods are very uncomfortable. Shimano is way better in that regard.

[@fiddleronthebike]

"looks like an eagle"... no matter what beautiful comparisons you find - that saddle looks absolute ugly! 😎 Of course, if it works and one can't get comfortable with other seats you have to swallow that pill - but it's a hard ask to put it on a beautiful bike...

[@jlljr1968]

Alisha really shouldn't talk so much...hahaha

[@mohamadjamil3164]

It is a crime to put such an ugly saddle on such a beautiful bike :)))))