The Great March Of Return: What Really Happened

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#destiny #vaush #politicaldebates

[@theoldhermit2601]

Idk whats more stressful, watching things about this conflict, or watching the travesty that unfolded in US politics just now.

[@Onmyknees4christ]

Thank you so much LonerBox for always fighting misinformation and propaganda by doing your own research and not letting yourself become a victim of believing others

[@vvieites001]

Lol but he is believing others? The key thing is to believe the RIGHT sources

[@sutulj]

Dude puts in the work, you should give him the 👍🏻

[@nightknight6947]

Thank you for your content man, fucking A+ service seeking the truth here.

[@UrsGantenbein07]

thanks for your Work

[@ONeill01]

I wrote to LB on this stream that Bloody Sunday in Derry and the Great March of Return are comparable and linked by injustice done to innocent protesters. LB response stated that he hears the comparison often and goes further to state that the difference is that there were no warning shots in the civil rights protest in Derry. I didn't get a sufficient response in time because I was brigaded by two supporters live on chat with nonsense responses saying they were not comparable. What exactly is LB trying to say here? Is he implying that it was justified to shoot unarmed protestors because they were given warning shots or that is not comparable because of no warning shots, is that a moral relevance difference to state that it is not comparable?

[@0redfr0g0]

There are a few key differences I could find quickly. 1. The British soldiers were not protecting a border, but instead erected a barrier to contain the protesters on certain roads of the city. 2. The British troops were ordered to arrest the protesters so they left the barrier and advanced into the crowd, getting in a melee with protesters and running them down with armored vehicles. 3. It was much more clearly a policing action. 4. There was no evidence of any incendiary or explosives being used by the protesters.

[@ONeill01]

@@0redfr0g0 Do you think these are morally relevant details to warrant stating that these are not comparable and linked by injustice done to innocent protesters?

[@0redfr0g0]

@@ONeill01 Yes.

[@ONeill01]

@0redfr0g0 Why? Despite both protests having innocent people dying at both events, they did not attempt to cross barrier/border, nor did they have explosives or incendiarys. In what way are these not comparable, I've just demonstrated why they are. Two points 2) and 3) You are demonstrating differences but not how they are not morally revelant in order to conclude it's not comparable. Are you inferring that Great March of Return innocent protestors did not experience injustice? Are you inferring that if they got arrested at the border, melee and run down by armoured vechiles, then it would be comparable and linked by injustice?

[@0redfr0g0]

@ONeill01 Ironically, the major similarity is that in both cases, there were attempts to cross the barrier/fence. The March of Return absolutely had explosives and incendiary devices used by protesters, If you aren't even going to engage in the factual accounts of both events, then I guess you can mold them into whatever you want. Again, a major moral distinction is the difference between a nation's border and a protest barricade. Another distinction can absolutely be drawn between stationary troops and ones that advanced into a crowd. I forgot to add that in the March of Return, at least some of the casualties were combatants and claimed by various hostile groups, while none of the protesters killed in bloody sunday were claimed by the IRA.

[@Dhwofjwlfkwldkfkw]

Tons of uploads Mr box 👍

[@ManateeMobile]

At the end, the issue isn’t that Finklestein as wrong about the Human Rights report, it’s that the Human Rights report itself was incredibly misleading and omitted crucial information that allowed them to claim entire statements that were factually wrong. Maybe Finklestein, like many others believed that the HR organization that wrote it would be unbiased but that’s been proven wrong over and over in the Israel Palestine conflict

[@CrestOfArtorias]

This might come off as more dismissive than its meant to be but a lot of left wing people have, for whatever reasons, really high opinions of these trans-national organizations. I would assume Finkelstein is no exception to that.

[@halofornoobs93]

The problem is that Finklestein should know better. He makes far to many incorrect assertions for the level of prestige people give him.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

@@halofornoobs93 Innoculating effect of an echo chamber.

[@Zoltanmeimer]

​@@halofornoobs93Feels like Finkelstein's whole schtick is to quote other people and parrot their opinions while assuming they did the proper research. Problem is they so often turn out to be wrong.

[@amaruandujar]

⁠for example?

[@cmoerike01]

This vid is so informative 😮

[@ZohraBanon]

A pro Palestinian who can also be honest and objective. Very refreshing.

[@sd-vx6bo]

pro palestinian LOL

[@maciej917pl]

When will it land on the main channel????

[@Raptor810Blue]

No clue what his position is but his analysis is at the very least factually ironclad

[@hazzardalsohazzard2624]

1) He wants the violence to stop 2) The Utopian One-State solution. He's a good guy with his heart in the right place

[@Raptor810Blue]

@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 Sad it’s an infeasible and dangerous solution.

[@1984isnotamanual]

@@hazzardalsohazzard2624Lonerbox isn’t for a one state solution I thought?

[@PunkiBrooster]

@@hazzardalsohazzard2624yes because there’s no examples in the history of the world of colonized peoples being integrated into a colonial society and afforded equal rights. Not a single country has ever overcome apartheid.

[@longliverocknroll5]

@@1984isnotamanual lonerbox is a genocide defender.

[@killercaos123]

*comment for engagement*

[@willknowsright9615]

I'm engaged to your mom...

[@Gecko_Papa]

Woo yeah..

[@SamNL]

rt

[@RiceShouldBeFluffy]

You're WRONG! This is poor engagement. You neo liberal schill!

[@seanmurphy7953]

It seems later, after the snipers had un alived dozens of peaceful people, people got mad and started throwing rocks and molotovs that were never going to make it to the soldiers**

[@adaptiveagile]

Loner, love you brother. I don’t always agree with your conclusions, but always respect your opinion because you have honest intentions. One of the very few people-along with Destiny-who approaches things impartially and analytically. As an Israeli, I don’t object to criticism with merit, but rather with the gaslighting… disinformation, politically motivated one-sided accounts, cherry picking, false narratives, and double standards. Truth-or at least an honest attempt to find it-is all I ask for.

[@hermithefrog629]

​@@Cat-yz1tkany civilians should have left once the Molotovs and rocks started getting prepared. all the non-terrorists left once they saw the border fence being sliced open.

[@kronosDking]

@@Cat-yz1tk You don't have to be a military expert to know it's probably extremely hard to accurately identify and target *only* the people who are engaging in hostilities in a crowd of thousands of people. The moral responsibility in this situation lies on Hamas for using civilians as cover in the first place.

[@yaaraamozig4862]

100% right

[@mgg7756]

@@kronosDking thousands only in children killed. I'm pretty sure the moral responsibility lies in the killer.

[@kronosDking]

@mgg7756 The killer is Hamas who uses them as human shields.

[@bobobofett]

I know bonerdox probably doesn have an editor and just finally sitting down to get through the backlog of vods after his trip. But def feels funky rewatching this weeks(?) later after the intial stream

[@savaok255]

Genuine question, where do you get the time to watch the stream AND the video? Forget the time committed , is it not a tad bit boring watching something you've already seen?

[@bobobofett]

@savaok255 often times one doesnt catch the entire segment on stream. Also i forget sometimes and be like "wait... this sounds familiar" and then i wonder if i have a healthy media consumption habit with a minor micro internet celebrity

[@soaps67]

@@savaok255watch? Listen while doing other things, then you have literally any time you are doing other things (that don’t require super focus) to listen to all sorts of stuff

[@SS-xr7jf]

@@savaok255I can’t speak for the original commenter, but a lot of political streamers, are easy to engage with through audio only as if it was a podcast. I personally tend to catch the livestreams at work, as my job isn’t so brain intensive that I can’t listen to something while doing it. Some people also use them as second monitor content for when they’re playing video games or as audio to listen to while working on art.

[@kgk6863]

I kinda wish he'd put the date streamed in the description

[@TheTpointer]

which software is lonerbox using for his notes?

[@zaper2904]

Obsidian

[@TheTpointer]

@@zaper2904 thank you!

[@5omewhiteguy211]

Now this is quality content. The amount of obvious truth-seeking shown here shouldnt be ignored. Easy like and sub.

[@hassanabdaladl]

Couldn't it be possible that the border fence is illegal and therefore it doesn't gain the protections afforded to normal military infrastructure?

[@halofornoobs93]

Only part of the border fence was illegal. This portion was not illegal and thus Israel did have a right to maintain and defend it.

[@hassanabdaladl]

@@halofornoobs93 I thought about this more. This doesn't mean Israel can just shoot people for approaching the wall. Because "approaching" the wall, would inherently mean they're on the Palestinian side, even if that portion of the wall was "legal." So Israel would be shooting Palestinians, on the Palestinian side, just for approaching their "border fence." If the wall is legal, and is directly attacked, then they can defend it against those attacking the wall. Not thousands of others just for camping out near it.

[@buzhichun]

I always sort of assumed shooting thousands of children for being in the proximity of a fence was simply bad and wrong, but clearly I was gravely mistaken there, completely missing all the _nuance_ (so embarassing!). Loving the direction this channel has taken in recent months.

[@butterf1sh]

What app is he using for his notes?

[@PrestonGoss]

Obsidian

[@aayushthorat314]

OMG HE USES OBSIDIAN YAY

[@iamjopaul]

Thank you for the time it took to adequately document the highly contested events of the GMR

[@yaaraamozig4862]

Thank you 🙏🙏 This is the first time I heard a balanced and knowledgeable lecture about the "the Great March of Return".

[@liorkoren87]

the fence was built 500 meters into Israel so that there would be an exclusion zone as defence. thus anyone within 500 meters of the fence has broken into Israel

[@Klopp2543]

False exclusion, buffer of any kind area all in Gaza lands exclusively the most fertile areas too. The border is built in Gaza territorial lands

[@liorkoren87]

@@Klopp2543 thats wrong. The fence was built 500 meters into Israel's 1948 borders, not on Gazan lands.

[@PunkiBrooster]

I have to assume, to LonerBox, William Wallace was a valid target of state violence?

[@fab006]

The mere idea that you can “peacefully” breach military boundaries in an ongoing conflict is ludicrous to begin with (and no one would be confused about it in any other conflict).

[@Klopp2543]

Illegal occupation and enacting medieval murderous blockades tend to do that. No other conflict anywhere in the world is close to this. Colonialism ended ages ago

[@liha4300]

What's with all the IDF \ ISF thingy?

[@Kataquan]

Israeli Defense Forces/Israeli Security Forces. ISF would be referring to the civillian police and border guard in this context

[@zaper2904]

ISF is all Israeli security forces (IDF Israeli regular and border police Shin Bet etc) that include the IDF within it.

[@liha4300]

@@zaper2904 Where there regular Israeli police involved in the March Of Return incidents?

[@liha4300]

@@Kataquan Where there regular Israeli police involved? Border guard is part of the army, you get drafted to it.....

[@zaper2904]

@@liha4300 Almost certainly not but the border police might have been.

[@idanpeleg211294]

Can someone explain to me the ISF vs idf thing here ?

[@shemmishtamesh]

IDF is the military, ISF is Military + any other security force. Also people who don't like Israel don't like to say IDF because it means Israel Defense Force and they don't like to say Israel is defending. Lonerbox is a little confused because the relevant term here is probably IDF, as I don't think Police or Shin Bet were as involved.

[@daves465]

​Maybe the border police (Magav) were involved. ​@@shemmishtamesh

[@leandro6234]

yessss

[@isaiahevans4477]

0 likes in 15 seconds bro fell off

[@sabastian3022]

Only 1000 views first hour actually washed

[@craigfriedman4759]

@lonerbox :What's the longest time a Palestinian spent in a Palestinian jail for a crime against an Israeli?

[@ogfrankfurter8247]

Lonerboxes community has changed so drastically. Feels like i am in desticu¢ks comment section.

[@iwersonsch5131]

The ones who survived their apprehension? Probably decades

[@simpli_histori]

This is addressed in the video. Watch it.

[@tooitchy]

@@ogfrankfurter8247 Crazy things hppen when you're exposed to the truth instead of endless propaganda and lies.

[@jacovichstabs841]

This is an irrelevant deflection. If you think your own soldiers shouldn't be properly punished for committing war crimes because the other side doesn't punish their soldiers then you don't understand the value of rules of engagement and the law of armed conflict in achieving your own military goals.

[@ghosthunter0950]

When there is such a significant amount of people right on your border you have to significantly harshen your policies to actually protect a breach, especially when you have parties like Hamas that encouraged it. the take away for me is that the Israelis went above and beyond to allow them more leeway whether you agree with every case of a guy they shot or not. their commanders probably had thousands of decisions to make there. Here is a question to think about: Looking at the details of the operation, Would YOU be confident that you would have even thought up an operation this elaborate to limit the damage as whoever was in charge of that operation did while preventing anything Hamas could have tried (like October 7th maybe :) )? and would you be confident you could pull it off better?

[@zaper2904]

"The goal was to edge" ~ Bonerbox 2024

[@danielsmith4870]

While the in-depth analysis is appreciated, because this kind of thing tends to become blurred by the miasma of propaganda, I feel like the "what really happened" framing here is a bit strange. It seems like even in this account, the generally upheld version of events is still correct - large amounts of people who were not engaging in violence or terrorism were treated as though they were, and either killed or maimed. I also can't help but shrug a little at the issue raised regarding the differentiation between active military participants and people that are members of an organization, but aren't acting as such. There's a reason that line exists, and it's important to recognize it. You don't target those people as though they're acting soldiers, otherwise everyone would be constantly murdering each other's off-duty soldiers and the like. I'm sure that makes running an occupation like the one around Gaza nerve-wracking and messy, but... that's also part of the point, no? We don't want running occupations to be encouraged, we typically want them to be short even if there's a good reason for them. Still, for a rundown of the facts of the event this a great resource, kudos for putting in the time and effort. Truly Britain's 'Ardest box.

[@halofornoobs93]

The issue is that members of the crowd did engage in acts of violence. The claim that it was completely peaceful is a lie. The chief criticism from the UN what that they didn't feel Israel's response was proportionate.

[@danielsmith4870]

@@halofornoobs93 I don't think I've ever seen a mainstream, or even marginal, coverage of the event that described it as 100% peaceful. The criticism has always been that Israel treated what was a policing event like a military one, and killed/maimed a large number of people that were not participating in military action - including medics, reporters, and lots of people that were not at all militants.

[@zaper2904]

When a terrorist group deliberately does not wear uniforms I think its only fair to treat all their members as "on the job" 24/7. Also this is irrelevant in this case since the attacking itself constituted a military operation.

[@jumanasaadeh2817]

Came back to this channel after a couple of months of still ongoing mass murder in gaza and i see this guy larping about the march of return. He really did fall off. I guess loner needs to cater to his IDF/israel simp audience somehow

[@steve-yt8lj]

He's trying to siphon off destiny's audience but they'd rather watch him than lonerbox so I'm not sure where he thinks his audience is going to come from lol

[@jumanasaadeh2817]

@@steve-yt8lj exactly my thoughts. I remember watching his analysis/videos on immigration issues and his takes on the nakba and debunking Israeli propaganda. Too bad he's become one of those it seems, money does talk. Also, he's not "being nuanced" to all those g*nocide supporters who watch him which I can't imagine there's anyone left but zionists or edge lords

[@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper]

Hasanabi should debate Willy Mac Show

[@jBread28]

He did?

[@rincontibio7664]

@@jBread28 he did

[@Kataquan]

No. Willy Mac is a clown

[@SupeHero00]

You should edit the wiki and reference all the research you've done

[@jumanasaadeh2817]

And become a true hasbara agent. You know what, that was what was missing of destiny and loner

[@daves465]

6:00 - How would the USA react if 200,000 Mexicans decided to "peacefully" march towards the border with Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, with the declared intention of breaching the fence, to initiate a mass return to the lands of their forefathers? How peaceful would that be?

[@vvieites001]

True, but protests aren’t meant to be peaceful lol

[@manipulatortrash]

​@vvieites001 it's entirely situational, I don't get why people insist on giving protest a set standard when context matters the most. Things like the US' Civil rights movement prove peaceful protest is often harder and yet all the more effective than one tinged with violence. Tension is still not violence and protests can still be peaceful with it.

[@0redfr0g0]

@@manipulatortrash You forget, leftists actually disagree with MLK so hard they end up diluting his message with that of Malcom X.

[@jumanasaadeh2817]

The US is not occupying Mexico and keeping them in an open air prison. And even if they did March to the US border, responding the way the IDF did would STILL be deranged. But lonerbox fans and supporters have been watered down to destiny simps and zionist freaks so no surprised there.

[@Klopp2543]

What do pro israeli supporters expect Palestinians to engage in to end the illegal occupation? Peaceful protests is bad, armed struggle is evil engaging with Israel as Fatah does is worse? Any constructive and factual reality based suggestions? Vanish,god gave us the land, intifada, Palestinians reject peaceful israeli offers, israel is the victim always,rockets etc aside

[@maxconrad133]

You are conflating multiple things, hence your confusion. The "March of Return", as the name itself indicates, was not about protesting a blockade or occupation. They want to *return* to villages which are located inside Israel. This is VERY different from protesting a blockade on Gaza. To end the blockade on Gaza would be simple but not easy. They would have to stop committing violence against Israel and develop their own economy and society in Gaza in cooperation with Israel. Israel has no objection to this and would welcome it. If that was the goal of Palestinians in general, there would not be a conflict. The problem is that what they insist on fighting for would require Israel ending itself, which it does not seemed inclined to do.

[@Klopp2543]

@@maxconrad133 for starters you've outlined what Gaza should do pray pleased tell what's israeli obligation towards an end to the blockade israel has imposed? Nothing? It's all Palestinians? How is that logical? Secondly with no trade, movement of people, goods or service and no import export coupled with israeli control of everything that enters or exits, how should Gaza ever have any sort of economy? Goal of Palestinians? It's israel which benefits most from the status quo and occupation. Palestinians lose the most how you've concluded israel is benevolent is ludicrous! It's Palestinian 22% that's israel is chipping into in the west bank and it's policies of separating Gaza from the west bank so as a joint, contiguous Palestinian state is never possible! No wonder why the day after is driving israel insane

[@maxconrad133]

@Klopp2543 1. You walk into a room, and you see a man holding down and restraining another man. You tell the man to stop restraining the other man, but every time he does, the second man attempts to stab the first. So the first man once again restrains him. In this situation, what is the obligation of the first man, and what is the obligation of the second? I don't care to hear your grievances while you are literally attempting to stab me and my family. In ALL of the years of the conflict, at NO POINT did palestinains as a people renounce violence or the desire to destroy Israel. As long as that is the case, Israel has one primary responsibility: to protect its citizens. Full stop. Despite that, Israel has done PLENTY regarding compromises with Palestinians. If you aren't aware of previous deals and peace offers and the fact that Israel removed its own citizens from Gaza in 2005, then you aren't doing enough homework. 2. You seem to have a very skewed idea of the economy of Gaza. It is nothing like you say. Its GDP was equivalent to many other countries prior to Oct 7. More than 150,000 Palestinians would enter Israel on work permits prior to Oct 7. Palestinians have received more aid per capita than any other. There is certainly enough to build a functioning society. And they'd choose peace it would only continue to grow. 3. I am not going to go into the whole settlements thing here. It's very far from where this discussion started. I'll simply state that if the Palestinians were ready to commit to peace and make a deal tomorrow that recognizes Israel, the settlements can be dealt with.

[@Klopp2543]

@@maxconrad133 nope for starters of a population of 2.4 Million only about 18,000 Palestinians worked on labour jobs in Israel not 150,000! Secondly Arafat and the PLO recognised israel in 1988 and again in 1993 towards Oslo, disavowed violence and as per numerous israeli security chiefs Fatah security cooperation with Israel is essential So alleging no Palestinian is pro peace is false. Israel has never recognised Palestine or Palestinians whatever standard expected should be for both not only for one side. Palestinians got n explosion of settlements from 100K pre Oslo to 800K post Oslo. Israel has never compromised towards peace in anyway or form and at any single time. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza from a financial and strategic causes and never handed over Gaza to Fatah nor engage in any negotiations for it. Palestine of which Gaza is an integral part has been under occupation by Israel since 1967 how anyone expects it's economy to be good is insane. Israel took its forces from inside Gaza to outside nothing changed. International law, UN security resolutions, concenssus of all countries in the world as per their votes since 2000 and Arab initiative position is clear israel withdrawal to June 1967 borders on 78% of historical Palestine and a Palestinian state created on the 22%. Israel rejects it and wants more? Why? The law is clear what other deal are you expecting? What is israel doing building settlements and demolishing Palestinians homes? Isn't 78% enough? Playing victim while being the aggressor is comical

[@Klopp2543]

@@maxconrad133 Arafat recognised Israel in 1988 and again in 1993 towards Oslo. Alleging Palestinians are inheritably violent is false. Of course settlements are central to the conflict. Palestinians expected freedom and liberty all they got is 100K settlers pre Oslo to over 800K post Oslo! Israel has never recognised Palestine or Palestinians as a people! Leaders represent the people hence nowhere in the world do the total populace express views about any subject. All am asking is let's hold both israel and Palestine to the same standard

[@guybarget7013]

🫡🫡🫡🫡

[@jackpurvis]

QQ: how likely is it a large number of those claimed by militant groups were false positives?

[@Kataquan]

Very unlikely. LB found extensive bios on H***s' own website that detailed what their individual day to day duties in the AQ brigades were

[@jackpurvis]

@@Kataquan well tbf, finding 6 bios in the 18 he searched from doesn't mean they weren't added AFTER the fact... Though at the end of the day I guess it doesn't matter, we haven't seen anyone confirm that they were agitators, regardless whether or not they belonged to a militant group...

[@rampantunease6517]

Israel had total control of gaza at one point they could have occupied gaza and the west bank like the us occupied germany or japan after the wwii. The usa left a strong ally in germany after four years of occupation. But it takes nation building. Israel didnt do nation build for the Palestinians. Only for settlers. Israel didnt want peace they wanted the land they had vast majority of the power. The conflict is the vast majority of israels fault.

[@Benedictus899]

Germany and Japan are actual countries that officially surrendered when they lost a war - They disarmed and were willing to basically Americanize and transition into democracy. When the anti-western sentiment is so deeply engrained in the local populace no matter how hard you try "nation building", it's going to fail, similar to how it failed in Iraq. The US thought that they're going to crush Saddam's supporters in a matter of weeks and locals will greet them with open arms as liberators who rescued them from a brutal dictatorship. Instead, they were seen as foreign occupiers that need to be opposed, and the power vacuum filled with corrupt politicians and religious extremists who are fundamentally opposed to western values. It might not be comfortable to hear, but the culture and belief system of the people plays an important role in how successful the process is, and I have a feeling that Palestinian culture is more akin to Iraqi culture than it is to German or Japanese.

[@simpli_histori]

Ratio

[@paulg82]

Israel currently and has been occupying you guys need to stop dickridin the Wikipedia debater lonerbox isnt debunking anything but putting forward zionist critiques

[@GearedGaming76899]

​@@Benedictus899Ah yes the Japanese culture were literal millions were willing to sacrifise themselves for their emperor that they thought was a literal god. People complain about so called martyr culture in Palestinian society and then will turn around and say that Japan had a better culture to transition to western liberal democracy when they had thousands die in kamekazi attacks. The reason Japan was able to switch was that there was a actual want in America to nation build, but there is no such want in Palestine. Israel does not want the people there, nor does the US really. They just want to land that is it. It has nothing to do with the so called culture of Palestinian society

[@sjp2649]

@@simpli_historiL

[@LimeyRedneck]

🤠 💜

[@zaper2904]

To be fair in the case of Elor Azaria while I will not defend his actions and he should have served jail time for murder the reason he acted like he did was because his friend was stabbed by the same terrorist before he executed him.

[@NapoleanBlown-aparte]

No

[@danielquartler1527]

You missed a lot. ISF had intelligent that Hamas want to use these marches and to invade Kibutzim, kill and abduct hostages from there (basically a kind of oct 07). There are videos and reports about that.

[@amrelemary338]

a kind of oct 7 where everything is literally prepared and broadcast weeks before so that israel would prepare? this is literally the opposite of oct 7, oct 7 was a surprise attack against israel to exploit their weak position for as long as possible till the actual bulk of the idf come back

[@mosbar1671]

Is there any defence for Elior Azaria or Kfar Qassem or bus 300 afair and the like? Can we just say that sometimes Israel acts in really bad ways and it has to fix stuff but all in all its still a great country?

[@paulg82]

Israel is not a great country lmao they literal rely on slave labour of palestinians

[@omryr]

Elior went to jail, for kfar qassem , people went to jail for 7-17 years The bus I don’t know do they weee punished but let’s not act as if they killed innocent people here lol, these were terrorists who hijacked buses, they shouldn’t have killed them if they didn’t have to but don’t compare that to kfar qassem

[@mosbar1671]

@@omryr The bus afair was way worse. The security forces neutralized the terrorists, took them to some field nearby, executed them and reported they were killed during the fight. The security personel were not 18yo soldiers which make it all look like a deep systematic issue. The personel were pardoned by the Israeli president. It was a long time ago I really hope stuff changed.

[@mosbar1671]

@@omryr Wait. You think millitary personel executing people without a trial becomes legit as long as they dont catch innocent people?

[@christoffel840]

Just so people know, the IDF shot over 6000 Palestinians during these protests. Lonerbox doesn’t mention this at any point. Unarmed people, majority from hundreds of meters away across a border fence. Medics, kids, elderly people, women, journalists, random Palestinians. Ok maybe one or two guys out of tens of thousands over months had rifles. There is a reason not a single humanitarian organization agrees with Lonerbox’s take here. It’s not because they didn’t realize that actually there were 50 militants instead of 30 or whatever Lonerbox is trying to argue here (He switches between the numbers in the report to percentages to make it seem like a bigger oversight than it actually was, assuming he is correct about all the extra militants, which include a guy in a wheelchair and a 15 year old kid who was burning a tire). It is because a massive number of unarmed civilians received life changing injuries from bullet wounds. I know he tries to sound even handed here, but he completely distorts what the actual crime of the IDF was. It wasn’t shooting a handful of militants who approached the fence. It was shooting THOUSANDS of unarmed civilians completely indiscriminately. It is actually crazy to me that he could just skip over that part, while harping on the fact one of the guys in wheelchairs (not the only wheelchair bound Palestinian to be shot) was a member of Hamas.

[@daves465]

To say that the people participating in this protest truly believed that it would be a non violent event is naive to say the least. They all knew that this would be a provocation, and would incite a response from the IDF.

[@danielsmith4870]

@@daves465 And yet, the response is still wrong. If you shoot at the people not engaging in military activity, you are handling a protest/riot wrong.

[@daves465]

@@danielsmith4870 Let's imagine that there were no IDF snipers there guarding the fence, and the people in the front managed to breach the fence. Do you think that the people in the safe zone would've stayed back there, or rushed the border as well? I'd say the latter. They were far from being "peaceful". Was the IDF 100% justified? Heck no. But after the first shots were fired, it is not as if the people disbursed and went home. They knew they were in danger, and continued to provoke Israel.

[@omryr]

@@danielsmith4870so if an army sends civilians to attack a border fence it isn’t a military operation?

[@mgg7756]

@@omryr what if this, what if that. You don't need what if anything here. Look at what's happening, it doesn't get more obvious than that. Israel is exterminating an entire population.

[@GBGB000]

The Great March of FAFO

[@hamzaabbaszaidi8788]

So I guess disabled people in wheelchairs were just F'ing around huh

[@sutulj]

‏‪40:02‬‏ him? The militant?​@@hamzaabbaszaidi8788

[@GBGB000]

​@@hamzaabbaszaidi8788 You think disabled people can't FA? Sounds pretty ableist.

[@fahoodie1852]

Yeah because israel would eventually find out on October 7

[@deriznohappehquite]

@@fahoodie1852 True! Israel found out what happens when the fence gets breached.

[@idoporges9215]

i wish he'd had more empathy to the israeli side. shots were approved by commanders yes, but he talks as if they were approved by a group of lawyers and high commanders. these commanders are 20 yr olds, and Lonerbox would have been a soldier too had he'd been born where its mandatory... a person such as he in particular might find these situations chaotic and way over his head, even with training...

[@ghosthunter0950]

Yeah the commanders had thousands of decisions to make there, and they can't allow a breach to happen. so erring on the side of caution is absolutely reasonable. especially when as lonerbox said himself Hamas did in fact participate and egg people on to do worse and they knew it. we can all claim that nothing would have happened in hindsight. but how would you have known there wasn't something worse cooking in the back? there arguably might have been which was prevented because the Israelis actually implemented good policies regarding this. it's literally their job to prevent such a disaster.

[@zaper2904]

Also yeah the UN and most NGOs are comically biased when it comes to Israel and its honestly refreshing seeing an outsider acknowledge it.

[@pewpewpandas9203]

Y'know, if the people aren't shooting, you don't have a right to shoot them. Also military personnel are allowed to change into civilian clothes and participate in a civilian protest, and when they do so they must be treated as civilians. It seems as though you don't have a solid concept on the ethics of war, but it's generally frowned upon to kill enemy soldiers who are off duty and aren't trying to shoot you at that time.

[@idoporges9215]

that's literally not true, and he talks about it in the video. trying to take down a military border will get you shot. yes the army can shoot you for that. this is a hostile activity. it does infact give them the right to shoot you according to ICRC laws. you cant meme this into being okay, its like the "Storm Area 51, They Can't Stop All of Us" BS yes they can, should, and will stop you

[@Seercho]

hi history speaks

[@L1vingAshlar]

Trying to breach a border isn't the same as nonviolent civilian protest.

[@simpli_histori]

Wrong. (one point that is half correct) if a soldier goes home, and then changes into civilian clothes, are not actively on duty, they are a civilian. If that off duty soldier TRIES TO ATTACK A BORDER FENCE, the threshold for their escalation to militant is higher. If an off duty IDF member walks into Gaza and starts yelling I am going to shoot you all (they don’t have a gun) they are participating in the conflict. You can’t throw down your gun and run away and instantly be considered a civilian. That is not how it works.

[@omryr]

What do you do with armed groups that don’t wear uniforms and always assimilate inside crowds and entice violence?

[@bunb8541]

It was everything except a "peaceful" protest.

[@vvieites001]

On the other hand, protests aren’t meant to be peaceful lol what would be the point of that? A bunch of people sitting around quietly maybe holding up signs doesn’t move the needle lol

[@gisselleivancovsky2453]

I don't see how people trying to breach an internationally recognized border can be seen as a peaceful act even if they were all waving white flags and singing kumbaya... we all saw what "innocent Palis" did when they managed to cross that fence on Oct 7.

[@eriksvensson6054]

God bless Israel!

[@user-nv6um6sb1t]

Palibots wont care.

[@mgg7756]

ah yes the very wealthy Palestine and its army of bots. Israel wouldn't do that, they are very moral.