The great synthesizer scam

"The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes, the more they want it". - Gordon Gecko
Synth manufacturers think you're a sucker. Why sell a synth for $1200 when the guy is willing to pay $5200?
This is what the synth manufacturers count on when they set out to sell you their new flagship synth. Same for analog or digital synths. It doesn't matter. As long as the potential customer sees the synth as "High End", the illusion has become real and he will pay up.
Same as in the Audio Hi-fi world where Hi-fi Audio manufacturers still suckers people into believing that a speaker cable costing $1000 per meter is better than the lamp wire you get for $1 per meter. Ohm's law doesn't apply to them. They think.
Analog synths have usually been associated with a higher cost due to electronics inside, but new "analog" synths are in fact more digital than ever. Discrete components are not what makes up analog synths any more. Now it's all surface mounted chips and CPU's are running things. Everything is under OS control.
To sucker you even more some manufacturers (of "analog synths") have a "Vintage Knob" on their synth. They do this to hide the fact that their so called "analog oscillators" are actually under so much digital control that they start to PHASE. To undo the phasing they have to separate the pitches of the oscillators, hence a "Vintage Knob". If they'd made the oscillators less clinically (truly analog) stable, this wouldn't even be necessary. It would cost more though and their revenue would suffer. They don't want that. They want to be fat and full, on your expense.
Why sell a synth for $1200 when a guy is willing to pay $5200?
All of the synths in this video are capable of sounding very good. As are the emulations of them in software form. In fact, they've become identical heard in a mix. The question is if you're willing to pay thousands of dollars more just to sit there at night with your pretty, but empty shell of a synth? If your answer is yes, then have fun. The synth manufacturers thank you. They even say so, in the manual.
Behringer and "through-hole" components. A slip of the tongue there and I edited out the rest of the elaboration I had recorded due to video length. What I meant to say was that Behringer is honest in the way that they replicate the through-hole circuitry faithfully, they don't necessarily replace what was once analog circuitry with digital circuitry.
Find my music here:
Bandcamp: espenkraft.ban...

[@EspenKraft]

"The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes, the more they want it". - Gordon Gecko Synth manufacturers think you're a sucker. Why sell a synth for $1200 when the guy is willing to pay $5200? This is what the synth manufacturers count on when they set out to sell you their new flagship synth. Same for analog or digital synths. It doesn't matter. As long as the potential customer sees the synth as "High End", the illusion has become real and he will pay up. Same as in the Audio Hi-fi world where Hi-fi Audio manufacturers still suckers people into believing that a speaker cable costing $1000 per meter is better than the lamp wire you get for $1 per meter. Ohm's law doesn't apply to them. They think. Analog synths have usually been associated with a higher cost due to electronics inside, but new "analog" synths are in fact more digital than ever. Discrete components are not what makes up analog synths any more. Now it's all surface mounted chips and CPU's are running things. Everything is under OS control. To sucker you even more some manufacturers (of "analog synths") have a "Vintage Knob" on their synth. They do this to hide the fact that their so called "analog oscillators" are actually under so much digital control that they start to PHASE. To undo the phasing they have to separate the pitches of the oscillators, hence a "Vintage Knob". If they'd made the oscillators less clinically (truly analog) stable, this wouldn't even be necessary. It would cost more though and their revenue would suffer. They don't want that. They want to be fat and full, on your expense. Why sell a synth for $1200 when a guy is willing to pay $5200? All of the synths in this video are capable of sounding very good. As are the emulations of them in software form. In fact, they've become identical heard in a mix. The question is if you're willing to pay thousands of dollars more just to sit there at night with your pretty, but empty shell of a synth? If your answer is yes, then have fun. The synth manufacturers thank you. They even say so, in the manual. Find my music here: Bandcamp: espenkraft.bandcamp.com/

[@spencerscott2044]

Sounds like someone has never heard the names Doug Curtis or Dave Rossum before. Just stop. You keep making a fool of yourself cosplaying as an engineer. This sounds like someone trying to talk about hacking on NCIS with how much conflation you are doing with your lack of understanding of the difference between ICs, discrete designs, though hole, and SMD. You need to realize just how insane you are.

[@dmitribovski1292]

Expressive E Osmose?

[@bangmateo7481]

You forgot Waldorf Quantum and Iridium the epitome of VST in a box.

[@paleolitik9834]

I use both hardware and software voice. The two are complementary, the former for feeling and pleasure, the latter for creative amplitude and freedom. Rare are the pseudo-musicians on KZbin who produce something decent from their material. More often than not, they're not musicians, artists or creative people, but simply collectors devoid of any talent. More often than not, they're narcissists, incapable of communicating anything about their “art”, which they lack, and of which they're totally devoid. Neurosis, ego, but above all, easy money, all the more so since algorithmic community formulas based on commitment systematically over-value the most acculturated, the most follower-like, the most addicted, the most ignorant, the most liberticidal individuals. So, losers choose losers, stooges choose stooges like Leader, in all fields and on all the commercial networks we mistakenly call “social”. Most youtubers are swindlers, in the sense that they're impostors. This is very visible in electro music. The more talented a musician is, the less chance he has of breaking through from scratch.

[@EspenKraft]

@@spencerscott2044 Someone hurt you bad when you were a kid right? Why so upset man? I'm a nobody KZbinr talking about something as trivial as a synth. We're not taking blood cancer here.

[@spahndirge]

Subscription models for software…now that’s a scam.

[@EdwinDekker71]

Waves update plan 🤪

[@TheBeakertube]

Depends. Kiloherts sub is a really good move

[@ljones2087]

yesss

[@Zackzickel]

Software has limited shelf life and needs constant care by developers if you want to keep enjoying it. Not for new features, just to keep it save and functional. Who is going to pay the developers?

[@discombob93]

Amen!

[@TheExtremenarcissist]

I use both Behringer and Sequential synths. I don’t use Behringer synths live. This video doesn’t address the needs of live keyboard players: We need nice keyboard actions, solid build quality, reliability, no menu diving and fast boot up times as well as great sound quality. Nord and Sequential are expensive but offer what live players need, hence they’re on stages all over the world. Many expensive synths are aimed at live players.

[@haderlumpi]

Fair point. But honestly, most synth users are playing arps at home and turning some nobs. Players who perform synths on stage are really rare imho. I mean bands have become less and less popular over the years, so naturally keyboarders even more unfortunately 😢

[@TheExtremenarcissist]

@@haderlumpi Agreed, regarding dearth of bands and live players. My point was that perhaps he’s assessing synths without considering their core market: professional musicians.

[@EspenKraft]

I'm a professional musician. I play live too.

[@TheExtremenarcissist]

@@EspenKraft ok. I respect your point of view but I’ve used a Sequential Prophet 6 and Nord Electro 5 exclusively on pro gigs for 5 years - about 250 gigs. They’re great instruments and they’ve never let me down so I don’t consider them overpriced. I used a Deepmind 12 for a while but the keyboard action is bad. If I considered something exclusively as a studio instrument I might feel differently.

[@LB-pp7pu]

@@EspenKraft Aaah, come on! You played 1 show in 20 years! ahaha

[@squirescape]

People owning so much gear and never make anything with it....... more obsessed with more gear than music. None a statement more true.

[@GlennKelly-d9t]

Exactly!

[@smartwerker]

Wait until you see how many ppl own VSTs that are outdated, OS upgrade vulnerability, or the company just goes under 😂 and don't make music. 2000 vst and shit talent

[@The_Digital_Arts_World]

@@smartwerker As if the big boy synth companies don’t go under (ARP Instruments, Oberheim Electronics, Sequential Circuits, Steiner-Parker, New England Digital NED, Future Retro, and Octave Electronics). Neither virtual or physical synths guarantee a person has talent.

[@DRath-r6s]

Exactly. Back in the day, my late uncle knew a couple guys with nice camera collections. One-upsmanship guys, you know the type, could pick apart all the technical details of them, and why their cameras were so much better than yours. ____Never took a picture. Now some of the same thing going on in the analogue synth world. A room full of knobs does not a composer make.

[@tedraven9214]

So? I have fun playing my Synths and creating sounds. I'm not obsessed with having gear but with having fun. More gear, more fun.

[@rabarebra]

The psychological effect of "something has value if it cost more" is known as the Veblen effect.

[@smartwerker]

I'm an engineer those synths are expensive AF to make 😂

[@rabarebra]

@@smartwerker No, they are not.

[@Station2Station-du2gh]

0:20 "Pay attention to these people who will attack me in the comments. Remember I told you that they would! They don't make music like I do." This sounds like the rambling of some sort of strange fascist dictator trying to hang onto a strand of power. Trump uses these strategies. Espen- you be you, live and let live; applaud those who buy or collect hardware for their own passionate reasons as they are enjoying their lives. This is sad.

[@ScottsSynthStuff]

10:01 that's inaccurate. All of the modern Behringer synths are exclusively surface-mount. There's no way they could produce the synths they do today at those prices if they were still using through-hole construction. With the move to surface-mount construction, Behringer synths have actually become far more reliable and long-lived than their previous generations of products.

[@Cubik303]

It is also worth mentioning that through-hole versus surface-mount simply doesn't matter except in terms of cost - at least in the case of synthesizers and associated gear. It is just a means of attaching (mechanically and electrically) components to a board. What people often mean when making this claim is that older, often through-hole, components from the 70's and 80's had poorer electrical performance or wider tolerances. This might (and often is) desirable in a synth circuit for sonic reasons. But that aspect is the component itself, not how it was soldered to the board. There may be other reasons to fault Behringer synths, but usage of surface-mount technology isn't one of them.

[@Synth2000]

I think that some of them are. Through hole makes things much easier to service.

[@AdamTheAd-vanc3d]

Smaller pcb traces = less inductance and noise etc. It's not just as simple as SMT vs THT. Also if you looked inside an old CS80 even the massive wiring looms would make a difference vs a modern iteration that would probably use small header connectors between boards.

[@anttihuovilainen1653]

@@AdamTheAd-vanc3d PCB trace inductance or resistance has absolutely no effect in synthesizer circuits - except for the digital control portion (where it of course has no effect on the sound, just whether the circuit works at all or not)

[@anniedarkhorse6791]

I have had a couple of Behringer Synths for years. Very reliable. No issues at all.

[@ageshero]

analog ‘Vintage’ knobs are awesome- don’t be silly. It’s not eye candy, it’s a fully integrated sound design feature that allows you to spread voices, knock accuracy off of the adsr, and fully change your sound fundementally with a single knob - using complex detuning.

[@HOLODECK-MUSIC-PROJECT]

Espen turns radical into a 80s version of BadGear 😂

[@MindGap-2020]

Love it!

[@atmobeat]

At first glance, he's ticking all the boxes!

[@MindGap-2020]

@@atmobeat 🤣 Espen always ticks all the boxes!

[@MarkusGeheim]

Wouldn't it be Bad Kraft then?

[@neild4639]

​@@MarkusGeheim well played sir

[@Snhojbar]

You had me at "Pay for your mother in-law's taxidermy"

[@nomasters]

I remember when this guy made really interesting videos about old romplers and shit. Now he's churning out this sort of clickbait nonsense. I guess he ran out of romplers...

[@thecookreporting]

It's just baseless claim after claim without explanation.

[@iApAchy]

Important note regarding your point about the well-known session bassist. The bassist's point about the "producer switch" is he changes the inflections in his playing/playing position etc. rather than changing a tone control on his instrument. This makes the producer think he's done something more drastic when asked to make the bass sound a certain way i.e. "can you make it shimmer?" when all the tonal change has come from his skill.

[@fuseblower8128]

Yeah, a lot of them are glorified VSTs with knobs, faders and a keyboard. It's a scam. Except when it has wood sides of course. Wood sides change everything....

[@lopp3]

We love those real simulated wood grain sides!

[@gobblegobblebarfbarf]

I can hear the wood sides.... can't you?

[@mattmckeon1688]

​​@@lopp3adds natural accoustic resonance, didn't you know?

[@samprock]

I think adding X at the end is what makes them apart 😂 an wooden cheeks of course! I wonder how wise Espen felt for it! 😊

[@pablowentscobar]

It's the same thing with station wagons. You roll up in a station wagon people are like "Ugh, gross." you put some wood panelling on that same wagon, It's a whole different game. Peoples eyes fly out of their head and jaws hit the floor. it's all "Ohhh!" "Yeah!". If you know, you know.

[@southerner66]

On the other hand, remember that many of these synthesizer companies never really made that much money and were often in danger of going out of business (with Roland being the exception because they diversified). And manufacturing a synthesizer including the case, the keyboard, the control panel, the artwork, etc... is not insignificant. If you're a player who performs the controls, it matters.

[@NicoIasTravolta]

I remember in the studio we opened a Lexicon Lexicon 960L which cost about 8-10.000$. And were shocked to see inside the cheapest motherboard with a Celeron, which costs a maximum of $100.

[@esiclene]

@@NicoIasTravoltaThe lexicon 960 is a pc running a dos software, but it is never been a secret. You are paying for the software (which is the same of pcm96). What about old flagship lexicons which run on Z80s?

[@anderswikholm957]

The cheapest motherboard with a Celeron would be very capable at running the operating system. You didnt find the signal processor it controlled? At all?!? However the algorithms is what cost the most.

[@NicoIasTravolta]

@@anderswikholm957 if that case they should release just a plugin. but no, you have to make a bigger box and cram it full of useless electronics so that it makes a noise like an plane to sell it for more money.

[@linusblomberg6166]

Calling it as scam implies that there's dishonesty involved, and I don't think that is true at all. Most people are aware that much (but not all) of the sounds can be replicated in VST's, and they are also aware that some hardware give them something software alone doesn't. Like inspiration, workflow, tactility, etc, or just being able to fulfill your teenage dream of owning a flagship synth. Whatever it might be for you. Hardware is expensive because the effort and cost of developing and producing them are high, especially for small companies in high-cost countries. I don't think they would survive if they sold their products for much less. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. But you are not being scammed if you do.

[@bobrogue]

Hey, Black Corp here. Jokers? :) Our synths definitely don't cost $6-7000. Currently, our most expensive product is a monster effects processor at $5000. Also they'd be bigger and heavier if they were clones. And we definitely don't think our customers are suckers. We are a small company and I like to think we have a good reputation for taking care of our customers when they have any issues. Mostly, at least.

[@mitchelstephen7536]

They come at night mostly. Mostly. Keep up the good work!

[@bobrogue]

@@mitchelstephen7536 Thank you. I appreciate Espen's videos, but there have been several youtubers in Europe have been mentioning pricing with VAT, etc and whatever upcharges come along with it. You can get actual pricing from our site. Announcing our gear is $2-3000 higher than it actually is turns people off from buying our stuff. It's been a tough enough market this year as it is. Apologies for the prices the work we put into them result in. We do have a sense of humor, and I can definitely be considered a joker, but we are not pricing our products in a way to treat our customers as suckers.

[@Wagoo]

His pricing is way off for pretty much all the synths mentioned in this vid - not sure if he's doing that on purpose as bait or out of ignorance Keep on rocking, Black Corp 🖤

[@bobrogue]

@@smartti1970 none of our synths are $5000. Our upcoming effects processor, Expander MK2 is. I don’t think you’ll find anything like it for that price though. Would love to know about it if you can think of one.

[@michaelgiordano2458]

As he states, I am not Espen Kraft, but I do wonder if where he's located, he gets hit with a large VAT. If you've got a 20% VAT, I presume that would put a $4500 Xerxes closer to the 6 range. But again, I am not Espen Kraft.

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Also... I ve worked with and for some.small and big synth companies and I can tell you these companies are fighting for their survival year after year. You have just spread a ton of misinformation.

[@Trottelheimer]

Yes. This vid is pure ignorant bs. And the schmuck thinks he's being "edgy cool" and "righteous" or something. Sad.

[@axelfoley1768]

Not true. Make it affordable, or piss off. VSTs are killing the hardware market, so hardware must sound fantastic & hard-hitting & have plentiful polyphony, and top-notch presets and easy integration. Otherwise we might as well just buy a Yamaha Montage or Korg Nautilus workstation with the Virtual Analog expansion boards.

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

@ it s obvious you really don’t have a much facts on the topic we re discussing here so I will stop arguing. Have a good one ☺️👍🏾

[@axelfoley1768]

​@@RapidFlow_Shop The guy in the vid was talking about vintage synths. Owners asking ripoff prices. He is right. And no one should pay $3000 for a modern Sequential Prophet 6 (for example) when they could buy a powerful laptop with complete DAW system (including many VST synths) for the same money. Only rich people with nostalgia & wealthy young aficionados (doing gigs) will pay such prices. The Behringer Model D & PRO-1 giving very good hardware sound for low money.

[@berkut6313]

You don't own a plugin, and never will. You only buy a license valid under said circumstances. If you need to meet deadlines, that's the way to go. I loved Absynth, RIP. The only good value for money plug ins are free ones: if you uodated your os and it no longer works, it did not cost you anything in the first place !

[@NothingHereButMe]

This is a really good point tbh. With everything going subscription based too 'owning' something is becoming harder. Don't pay full price for a Roland or Prophet though, they are overpriced

[@atarkus8]

That's actually what Dave Smith once said in an interview, that he went back into hardware after working on software because he wanted to make instruments that would still work 20 years from now. Having said that, once he realized how much cachet the old stuff had, the prices immediately spiked. Moog is by far the worst offender though. Charging 5k for a re-released Minimoog is insane, and is entirely a result of the sucker factor. It even used to cost 3.5k when they first tried it in 2016...

[@mdjey2]

This is why I never paid for a plugin.

[@valley_robot]

Lots of free plugins

[@Ziyoblader]

And this is why when you buy the product pirate it as well make sure you have a backup that is fixed so it does not ask you for any more money for when these corporate sleaze balls pull the subscription plan out of their butt. This is actually perfectly legal in the emulation space if you go to law school you would learn about it it's something they don't like to share too much but if you know you know as long as you have the physical copy with you and the system emulation dumping with your own data that's from your physical copy it is legal

[@MarcAndreLacas]

Doing a lot of of work out an old Electribe Korg, seems like I avoided a lot of disappointments using a very basic but solid setup.

[@ChrisGozzardThatPhysicsGuy]

ER1? I use that everyday... 25 years old but totally solid and great sounds..

[@worldofmuu]

Way to shit on a company like Groove Synthesis who’ve worked hard to create a niche product, continually updated it, and unfortunately exist in 2024 when even basic human necessities are expensive. Yep, just out to make money and fuck over the consumer.

[@buzzfunk]

exactly.

[@dionysiaex5538]

So its not the job of a capitalist company to charge as much as they can get away with then? i think you'll find it is.

[@genx1144]

cry harder

[@kevinslaney486]

Well....err, every company is out to make money, that is a fact. They don't do it for the love of it. But I see your point and certainly you couldmnot reproduce analogue filters on a VST

[@TheExtremenarcissist]

The term ‘scam’ is far more relevant in the world of prestige electric guitars by Fender and Gibson. New synthesizers have research and development costs, a Les Paul is a block of wood with basic electronics in production since the 1950s.

[@MiltonGrimshaw]

And I guess that's why a Zynthian cost around $500 and is several synths, effects and a DAW in a box? R&D my arse, I own over 100 synths and exactly what Espen says is true, I've returned many of the new bigbrand synths the quality is questionable for the price.

[@dindinbre]

Cheap guitars became incredible in the last couple of years, I've had a Jackson that retails for around 130 dollars and it played better than Mexican Fenders I had a chance to try. And sound wise it sounded like an electric guitar with humbuckers.

[@TheExtremenarcissist]

@@dindinbre Yes. Harley Benton/Thomann also very good. Factory workers probably paid badly, though…I was looking at the price of the Murphy Labs, artificially distressed Gibson guitars. Ridiculous! Even standard Gibsons are the same as a prestige synth.

[@ViviSectia]

It's also more relevant in the world of guitar pedals. They literally put a new coat of paint on decades old circuits though some of them at least change a capacitor or two so it's an "new" circuit.

[@dindinbre]

@@TheExtremenarcissist yea, and when it comes to guitars, they all sound very similar if their pickup configurations are similar (it really comes down to looks and logo on the headstock), while if you want a specific synth sound, you need to have that specific synth (or something that clones it *khm khm Behringer*)

[@MyDeepGuide]

I guess the only point of this video was to gain traction and visibility on KZbin, and in that regard, it hits the mark and is a success. However, factually and argumentatively, it's very weak. If you are going to make such strong claims ("The Great Synthesizer Scam"), they need to be backed by examples, comparisons and facts. I don't disagree with the point you tried to make, I just think that it is a missed opportunity to actually make an important point stick. Unfortunately, the second part of the title "How They Reel You In" wasn't even touched upon in the video, so that part is just clickbait. I really expected something with substance here, but this wholly misses the mark, unfortunately.

[@kvmoore1]

​@@skippertunesRoland and Behringer are much bigger companies. Moog and Sequential are much smaller in comparison. Smaller companies under hardships have a higher tendency to get taken over or bought out by a large entity than a much larger company with more financial resources available to stay afloat on their own, even during difficult times.

[@b4chu5]

I don't need comparisons and examples to realize that a box with faders and knobs that's just running a software inside isn't worth thousands of dollars.

[@b4chu5]

@@jfn467 Examples like Hydrasynth show how cheap it can be done.

[@yanickborg3118]

Everything he has said is completely accurate.

[@DarkSideofSynth]

"...maybe pay for the taxidermy of your mother in law after she passes": you've just floored me, Espen. Luckily, I had already had breakfast or I would have spat it all over my desk after this ;)

[@peterschroedl4878]

nearly spit out my coffee @ "save up for your mother-in-law's taxidermy"

[@marcanglin7127]

"Your mother-in-law's taxidermy" !!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Nenko_Music]

yea man haha!

[@samprock]

I’m sure it was a fine trolling of B manufacturer 😂

[@mmrva]

See JX-08 review.

[@Sinesquares]

A few months ago I met Yiannis who owns Dreadbox synths and we were taking about the Korg PS 3300. When we talked about the price he told me “I could definitely build one for Dreadbox but if Korg manages to sell it at 13.000$ the Dreadbox one would probably cost 30K 😂 The point is that many somewhat smaller companies are struggling to have competitive prices and they have extremely high production costs, commissions for dealers, taxes, etc. I’ve talked with dozens of people in the music gear industry and they definitely don’t look like people who are trying to scam us to get rich. Many of them make money - it’s a business after all but not always on our backs..

[@chipchasm]

commerce is a scam by proxy. no one is even reinventing the wheel. dreadbox used to be made in greece, they got cheap and their quality went way down. don’t really f- with them since they started making money lol. parts are becoming more pricey but you are looking at 10x markup from build cost to sale cost. dreadbox isn’t getting rich because dreadbox isn’t innovating.pretty much every company is just pumping memberberries.

[@rabarebra]

I first thought you ment Yanni. You know, that old school synth artist. 😂

[@Sinesquares]

@@rabarebra 😂😂😂 haha nope

[@rikardvilhelmlindell405]

I guess this is also why eurorack modules cost a lot, comparatively. For instance, to break apart an 0-coast into individual modules would for the same money get you a case and power supply or maybe a 1u row interface, mix or mult.

[@slimyelow]

Interesting that Teenage Engineering didn't come up.

[@ChemistryLemur]

Because they usually offer something you can't readily emulate with software. OP XY while absurdly priced, is a very fun little device with interesting workflow in an amazing form factor. The product is also not pretending to be something it's not.

[@apersonontheinternet8034]

@@ChemistryLemur literally all their devices could be a pretty cheap plugin. Their devices' only selling points are "being small" and "appealing to hipsters with a lot of disposable income".

[@Sharkwhisperer]

Because it is completely obvious that it is an absurd scam

[@Marbles35]

For 1200 euro you get an amazing Roland Fantom 06, which is SUPER user friendly. No DAW needed anymore, not overpriced, and a fantastic package: studio, synth. All on the go.

[@exploringjapan2452]

Funny he says this with a sequential synth in the background.

[@TheDams1975]

"Perception is everything" would fits well with audiophiles too :)

[@EspenKraft]

Hence why I address those in the video description.

[@meskisable]

@@EspenKraft Well there are scams in audiophile market, but there also legit gear. When you reach about 10k for a system improvements in sound quality become small and price rises exponentially. But I I heard systems that cost from 50 to 300k and they sound phenomenal. For headphones it is much cheaper. You can get DAC amp combo with headphones for about 2-3k.

[@EspenKraft]

The irony is that on some of these systems have music playing that is made on a laptop and software costing a total of $1000 or less. Audio systems costing $300K is snake oil. I've heard them as well, and even more expensive and it's totally bollocks.

[@meskisable]

@@EspenKraft Those systems is not made for music made with laptops. I had experience once when i played "beyond black rainbow" OST vinyl on audio note system. It sounded very bad(you can hear a lot of bad details), but on average hi-fi it sounded good. Then owners of that system played analog recorded jazz record - it sounded phenomenal. To me it is the same with cars. Nowadays you can get sporty saloon car that is fast and very good, but F1 car is miles of ahead in terms of performance.

[@jarls5890]

....or the Apple product in his lap.

[@motoroverflow]

I really want to hear a song about this escort. 🎶"Astrid! You don't have to put on the red light!"🎶😀

[@stateazure]

Some of this I agree with (with regards to some synths being overpriced). But the 3rd Wave being a scam? That's hilarious. It's just a PPG clone? Well that's news to me! I own the 3rd Wave and the Waldorf PPG software, the software isn't even remotely close. Could the 3rd Wave be a VST? Sure, although without the analog filter. But that would be one heck of a plugin. People don't seem to realise the 3rd Wave can not only emulate the original PPG, but it can also do modern wavetable synthesis (some of the best I've ever heard), is also a very capable virtual analogue and a sampler, with a fantastic sequencer. Now times that by 4, and you start to understand what's great about the 3rd Wave. The build quality and keybed is also very impressive. It's definitely a premium and one-of-a-kind synth, and its price reflects that. I can see why some might see it as overpriced, but it's not to me and that absolutely does not make it a scam. But I'm not sure this guy actually understands the meaning of 'scam' in this context.

[@EspenKraft]

You willing to pay the price is fine by me. I don't care. I just want to warn people about spending that much on something you can get for WAY less, although not in that package admittedly. Hopefully some will see through the scam.

[@stateazure]

@@EspenKraft But you can't get the 3rd Wave as a plugin for much less - I pointed this out in my comment. You're completely out of touch/wrong about this. I OWN the Waldorf PPG software, it's not remotely the same, that's just the PPG software (which is also horrible to program by the way). The 3rd Wave is much, much more than that. It's ability to emulate a PPG is one small part of that synth.

[@EspenKraft]

Sure. I understand that not everyone will be pleased hearing they've been scammed, and you obviously don't see it that way and that's fine too. I never said the 3rd Wave isn't a great instrument, I'm questioning the price.

[@stateazure]

@@EspenKraft Nothing wrong with questioning the price, but you could do that without claiming 'scams' and stating software exists, when it doesn't. Expensive hardware doesn't = scam. Either you're misunderstanding the term, or this is intentional for controversy/views. There could be healthy discussions here about what you actually get for your money in regards to some of these expensive synths.

[@EspenKraft]

Yes, I could. But I don't do it like that. I like to word things on the more extreme side. I am here as I am in life, 100% true to my inner voice. Some hate me for that, some love me. I like that. I'd rather have some on either side of the spectrum than everyone in the middle, indifferent. I see this as a scam, you don't. That's fine.

[@clarencejeyofficial]

Couldn’t agree more. I think even my Prophet 10 Rev4 almost fits this category. Thank goodness for my 1973 MiniMoog, MemoryMoog, JD800 and DX7 as well as the old 80s samplers. It’s all about the converters and filters.

[@bobjoe7508]

Espen, I’m a longer term subscriber and I need to say that you seem to be avoiding responding to several key points raised by other commentators: -You were probably speaking more anecdotally in terms of prices, but they don’t seem to reflect what people are actually paying -I’m not a synth manufacturer, but there are actual synth reps in the comments pointing out that they are not ripping people off, and most synth manufacturers have very thin margins I understand the points you’re making here (and I also understand your very dry sense of humor). In the future I probably wouldn’t post these kinds of videos on your main channel.

[@mb72oz]

You are way off base here, but these kind of comments are fairly typical from someone who hasn't been involved with production of hardware devices. Do you really think that manufacturers like Melbourne Instruments, to take one example, are getting rich off sales of their gear? Hardware is expensive to prototype, source and manufacture. There is also the dealer margin to factor in, which can be significant. Smaller number of units made -> each unit is proportionally more expensive. I'm not sure what side of the bed you woke up on and thought that this was a good video to produce, as it exposes your lack of understanding of the reality of hardware production; you would have been better served doing some research first. Reach out to some manufacturers, ask them what goes into creating their devices, and THEN present your opinion. As it stands, this comes off as wilful ignorance and doesn't really fit with the otherwise high-quality and interesting information on your channel.

[@jptaylor]

As predicted by Espen, he knew you’d say this.🤣 The truth is always hard to swallow for many.

[@AudioAtmos]

@@jptaylor Predicting that someone would set the record straight takes nothing special. A very typical form of argument used these days which sounds good when there’s no one to immediately counter these assumptions. KZbin and social media is a bastion of this false debate. You’re still under the perception this video is 100% on the money. It’s not.

[@mb72oz]

@@jptaylor knowing how to use a particular tool well doesn't equate to understanding the costs or effort involved in it's manufacture. Espen is a smart guy and talented musician, but it hasn't stopped him being wrong about many things in this particular case.

[@krakulandia]

You're 100% right. I myself founded a small HW synth company and was hit in the face with the reality of how high the costs quickly climb with the products. I was shocked at how cheaply Behringer was able to produce their products. Just having the same amount of potentiometers as K-2 would already push the street price of the boutique synths with equal amount of potentiometers well past the Behringers price. Behringer has done lots of business moves which are unique in the musical instrument history: they have their own component factoris AND they build their very own town/city for the sole purpose to have its vry own ecosystem so all the money spent there won't spread outside of that town/city. This ensures the money spent there goes back to Behringer/Music Tribe. This in turn makes the losses of workforce and production as minimal as they can be in theory without using prisoners for workforce. Because of this they can manufacture their products probably at quarter of the price their competition can. Currently no one can challenge their prices.

[@FUTURSample]

I agree, it's true for new brands with new synthesizers. But the old brands have largely amortized the costs of r&d, production line, plus the components are surface welded with robots which reduces the cost of labor.

[@TonyAndersonMusic]

I own 5 Behringer synthesizers and 6 of them have broken.

[@LunaticDandy]

I own 7 pieces of Uli gear (3 synths, 1 DM, some ER and the rest is processing gears). There's only one I bought from a thrift store (back when they made bad stuff) that does not work well anymore. All the others are impeccable. Bad luck or luck ? (I'm absolutly not a "fan" or even worst a "commercial" for this company)

[@reddragonrespect]

What did you with them. Even my 25 years old mixer works fine. While allen shit was already repaired 3 times...

[@TonyAndersonMusic]

@@fredrikh9299Your mom sat on it and broke it

[@TonyAndersonMusic]

@@reddragonrespectI added extra analogue tubes to it and it broke!

[@TonyAndersonMusic]

@@LunaticDandyread my comment very slowly…and then again.

[@Observe-n-Learn]

Flagship prices are being "adjusted" now, a lot more next year. Seeing many used ones being sold at $1K-$2K depreciation. When Hydrasynth Deluxe went on sale for $1500, I saw it as the bargain. Then they updated the O.S. and it is a Poly AT beast. Used synths I love are, Novation Ultranova ~$350, Studiologic Sledge Black ~$600, DeepMind 12 or 12D $500-$600, Take 5, a stretch at ~$1000... just to name some. If manufacturers want to pry $3K+ from me, the synth needs to have a lot of magic above and below the hood.

[@bukkaratsuppa6414]

I got deepmind 12d for a ridiculous bargain, new. I just cought the right moment, it's 1.5 times more expensive now in my country then what i paid less than 2 years ago. Such a beautiful synth, for so cheap! I sold my Nord Rack 2X just before, and then i felt bad for the guys who bought it, they seemed so involved with music, but that money i asked did obvisouly not come easy. I definitely should have gone down 10%, if i knew i was about to hit that bargain with Deepmind. I was about to bring it down anyway, now i feel bad, as if i ripped them off.

[@chillwalker]

5:40 Lol...the old and still good "psycho-acoustic suggestion" Trick. To please the high paying client, even if his Request makes absolut no sense out of the Studio monitoring enviroment. Every oldschool analog console had this one, red knob ;-) And everyone is happy and feels heard!

[@scrapethebottom]

this video is already turning into a meme lol

[@AlainHubert]

In the end, it comes down to what you want and what you're willing/able to pay for it. I bought the Behringer UB-Xa because I wanted the Oberheim polyphonic OB series synths sound and, although it's a fantastic polysynth and an amazing value for money, I quickly sold it because it didn't meet my expectations. I bought the OB-X8 and it does.

[@Grooveboxin]

Yes and people who pay thousands of dollars for a digital synth are suckers. That’s the point.

[@sub-jec-tiv]

@@GrooveboxinMany of the synths he’s referring to have analog VCOs, or analog filters (or both). The fact that he’s saying ‘anything with a vintage knob is a scam because it’s digital’, EK doesn’t seem to understand that the vast majority of analog instruments are digitally-controlled, for very good reason, like being able to carefully control pitch for doing accurate FM (which a lot of flagships do). There is absolutely nothing scammy about a synthesizer that, in its natural state, will sound so perfect that it lacks character, having some ‘slop’ coded in to the digital controls. To give people what they like about analog, with the kind of features people demand now due to using digital and software synths.

[@chipchasm]

you wasted your money, you wont get the sound. a real oberheim vst like a sem will take you there!

[@AlainHubert]

@@chipchasm When I say Oberheim, I don't mean the SEM modules, I mean the polysynths from the OB series. For the SEM type sounds I've got my good old OB-6. ;-)

[@remka2000]

I agree on the point about "fetishisation" of the tools. Tools are a mean to an end, nothing more, nothing less. Musical instruments are tools too. Now some of them bring more pleasure to use than others.

[@marinedalek]

Fascinating to see someone who regularly drives up the cost of middle-of-the-road retro gear rail against perception-driven pricing with no sense of irony. Just to pick one of the many specious arguments here: I migrated from using solely VST plugins to using mainly hardware "scam synths" for many reasons, not the least of which is the dedicated control surface per synth. However, an unintended benefit is that recreating a sound I recorded on my KARP Odyssey reissue 10 years ago is a hell of a lot easier than even opening a project containing old, unsupported VST instruments. Hardware synths don't vanish into the aether with OS updates, the closure of licensing servers etc. It's the same reason I try to buy music I enjoy on CD rather than rely on my favoured streaming service happening to have the rights to it this week. Components age and wear out, yet the half-life of a virtual instrument is, in my experience, significantly shorter than that of a hardware equivalent. Unfortunately, this video marks a disappointing pivot from the appreciation of old, unloved gear, to poorly-supported outrage bait. Well done, I guess?

[@mitsanut5869]

Excellent, excellent comment.

[@chipchasm]

ya drive up, to half of 80s msrp

[@funnzie]

Software synths look cheap but in the long run are the most expensive, both in money and in time lost to unsupported synths in a current OS. I have thrown in the trash audio interfaces that were in perfect condition because only supported by WIN XP. That is when I went 100% hardware. Never regretted it. My time if more valuable today because I have very little time left, I am old and do NOT want to lose all the time I put in learning a complex synth. Hardware insures it never changes. Nothing is perfect, but I have created over 70 albums on hardware, and none on software.

[@Murgoh]

@@funnzie This is a valid point. Unfortunately I'm afraid the hardware synths will probably be exactly the same in the future, don't know if some already are as all of mine are 20 years or more old. We already see this kind of planned obsolescence where the product needs to be connected to the manufacturer's server to function and becomes useless or at least loses a lot of it's functions when the manufacturer stops supporting it in consumer electronics like phones and even cars, I'm sure this will be a reality for synths too if it's not already.

[@funnzie]

@@Murgoh I have mostly new synths today, some of the functions are enhanced through software on some of them. But I don't use those enhancements, I know from before purchase that I will not be using any function requiring a computer. This is why I would purchase a 3rd Wave synth instead of a Novation Summit. The 3rd Wave does not need a computer to prepare wave tables, the Summit/Peak does.

[@amitghosh4166]

2:31 Mother-in-law's Taxidermy 🤣🤣🤣

[@rolandtriton]

most people can't tell the difference in a blind test, it is hard to swallow

[@g3cd]

Sequential has perfect MIDI implementation, a perfect, intuitive user interface and still provides manuals, spare parts and software for vintage DSI synths like the Poly Evolver. This is a unique, outstanding service that comes at a premium I'm willing to pay. You could of course steal every idea and not invest in any development like Behringer, but I'm not supporting this. The Black Corporation Kijimi has LFOs for pretty much every single knob and is the ONLY polyphonic synth that does that.

[@johnfowler3125]

😂

[@kennethpace9887]

Wow. Start a video saying "this is my opinion," then say "noone is going to like it," and finish off with "watch them comment..." And immediately, the comments are "ignorance!" Yes, Espen, you know what is going on. You know them better than they imagine.

[@MichaelJamesWood]

But... he was right. I'm reading it now.

[@tommykruesofficial]

You know it's real when Espen cusses.

[@alfiedj]

Great video essay. I was engaged from start to end. Made me re-evaluate pulling the trigger for a hardware synth. Thank you for saving my walllet. Much appreciated. 🙏

[@herbertschmidt1719]

What do an opinion and an arsehole have in common? We all have one. What is the difference between an opinion and an arsehole? Unlike an arsehole, opinions get shown around all the time -- it would be fun if it were the other way round. If only once.

[@runestone1337]

I was subscribed to the Roland Cloud but I cancelled it and kept my Jupiter X keyboard, TR-8S and MC-707. Just my opinion, but nothing beats the feel and inspiration of a hardware interface -- VSTs just don't do it for me.

[@TJ-bx5px]

But why can't someone start making hige end M8di controllers that are cheap, that mimic and looks like real hardware synthesizers...

[@chrislisten87]

@@TJ-bx5px there are. If I understand yout comment correctly. Called Dtronics . They have Jupiter8 and so on.

[@webtrekkeruk2487]

@@TJ-bx5px Yes, why not, indeed. In fact, many current MIDI controllers have better quality keyboards than some of these top brand synths. Also, you can use your favourite keyboard that you feel comfortable with to control many different VST instruments.

[@synthmaven]

@@TJ-bx5px Whoever ends up figuring that one out will MAKE A FORTUNE !

[@chipchasm]

ew, you like that corny gear. those ui-s would be the first to go

[@solidarius6400]

I am in Marketing myself and what Espen describes here is called "willingness to pay"- its an established marketing concept and whether you like it or not this is how companies make their money these days, whether its luxury fashion, the latest tablet or in this case a specific synth brand. No need to be upset. After all its your choice - your money.

[@sslaytor]

There is nothing "these days" about it - its how capitalism has always worked.

[@bfb1962]

Haha! Who’d want their mother in law on display, filled with saw dust and wires?!? 😂

[@bfb1962]

@timbrown8443 🤣🤣

[@emmetoriordan6709]

This is a great video. Thank you for letting us know about this. Very informative.

[@longdongsilver4719]

It's not "informative". It's stupidity at a high level.

[@tyunwin3858]

So much to unwrap here...... But the bottom line is simple. The level of ignorance about the MI industry and the professional music world shown here is extraordinary. EVERYONE is totally entitled to an opinion, as controversial or divisive as it may be, but at LEAST always come at things from a place of knowledge and experience. The worst thing is simply that he creates an aura of such knowledge and authority on the subject matter but hasn't the first clue of what goes into producing and bringing a synth to market and how they are then used in a professional environment. He's all of a sudden more bothered about getting the "clicks"! Up until now I've mainly enjoyed Espen's view of synths and tech, mainly because being a similar age we have had much of the same experiences when using the same vintage of synths, but I don't know what he's been smoking or why he suddenly wants to talk bollocks but so much of this video is simply rubbish. Please Espen, just go back to making videos about specific '80's synths that you've bought, OR talk to some people actually IN the industry, THEN come back and make a follow up video to this.

[@EspenKraft]

I describe you in the beginning of the video. It's spot on.

[@tyunwin3858]

@@EspenKraft I produce no music?

[@zxy7529]

@@EspenKraftWILD to say that about Ty Unwin 😂😂😂

[@joerg721]

Espen, are you alright?

[@mattevans7884]

@@EspenKraft Ty never STOPS making music. Your argument is invalid.

[@SLPGroundSoundMusic]

This is the exact same thing I have been saying for the past 12 years, but I have mostly been saying that about the MPC. I have been saying that the MPC is a MIDI controller built all around an app, which is the same case for all digital synths and other digital keyboard instruments. They are all MIDI controllers built all around an app. So basically, while a computer or laptop is way more powerful than any digital instrument, and by the way, you can buy a great, powerful laptop with a top CPU, RAM, and 1 TB of storage, plus USB inputs and outputs, even Wi-Fi connection, and so many things that come standard with a computer, you can get that for around $500. So why don't people realize that those digital instrument companies are all about scamming people with those types of gear? It's like buying a cheap $100 Android tablet with a $30 app, which they then add to a $100 MIDI controller and sell it to you as a digital instruments for $2,000 to $5,000. So if that is not a scam, then I don't know what is !

[@chipchasm]

just destroyed every modern memberberrie with pure logic and didn’t even get a like. i will give you a like!

[@milk_bath]

I don't care how powerful something is. I care how easy it is to use.

[@rabarebra]

@@milk_bath Isn't Logic or Cubase easy to use? You find it easier to learn 20 to 30 synths GUI?

[@ralpix6240]

That was great! 😄Not being able to affort that stuff suddenly feels a lot better...

[@Grooveboxin]

People don’t buy the synth, they buy the status

[@sub-jec-tiv]

@@Grooveboxin Spoken like a person with ‘amateur’ in their screen name (sorry you kinda asked for it by making a blanket generalization about a demographic you have no first-hand experience with)😉. I’m not a collector, i’ve never posted a pic of my rig anywhere. I don’t discuss my gear much with friends. I’m a 35+ year audio & music professional. I bought a Prophet X because the sound is simply jaw-dropping. The stereo Prophet filter Dave Rossum designed, is also used in believe in the UDOs and 3rd wave. When clients get my stuff, they’re often like ‘The synth sounds amazing!’ And i get hired again. I can’t speak for anybody else, but what i can say is, professional musicians are a real existing market. And these products are for them. I’m not sticking up for Roland, their flagships are absolutely overpriced, as their economy of scale is closer to Behringer, and they cut corners on build and UI. But smaller companies are legitimately just making the best-quality instruments they can. If you don’t need one, buy something else. But i will say, i sold some of my older vintage gear (which often needed servicing checkups) to buy the Prophet. And once it got into my studio, i sold 2 other synths that year, because i simply wasn’t using them anymore. Not only has that synth already paid for itself many times over, i actually reduced the amount of gear in my studio. Personally, i’m a professional user who invests in my business. And yes, i absolutely bought the synth, not the status.

[@alphabeets]

The problem with soft synths is they eventually just fail as the computers and their OS obsoletes them.

[@-KingOfKhaos]

They usually last for a generation (figure 10 years) at which point the computer itself becomes outdated. The solution is to simply hold the old version of the VST’s you really like on the older / outdated computer or Mac, and simply patch that computer into your new computer / DAW if you happen to really need that outdated VST. Everyone wins. You’d have to update your computer for other reasons anyway, so it isn’t like you would be holding onto a 10 or 15 year old computer or Mac and not be purchasing a new one no matter what. But it IS fair to say that yes, many VST’s do update and make older versions obsolete over time. The only workaround is to make sure you keep at least one version of the VST you like someplace safe either on an external drive or the hard drive of the computer / Mac that originally was able to run that synth to begin with.

[@loupasternak]

fail? lololololololooll.. you must be a hard synth seller

[@hdslave]

My oldest plugins from 2006 work just as well today as they did back then

[@chipchasm]

@@hdslaveword up doggie! im rocking some 20 year old korg vsts daily in a room filled with of hardware synths!

[@chipchasm]

@@-KingOfKhaoscouldnt be further from the truth. im starting to question if we all have anuses, because clearly we don’t all have opinions

[@pgpete]

I disagree. I have a Hydrasynth, and it doesnt hold a candle to my Prophet 10 in sound quality or the enjoyment I get from playing it. And no. - the Arturia VST of the Prophet 5 is not as good as the real thing. but these days VSTs now sate my G.A.S. appetite

[@handje1234]

Perception is everything.

[@BlackMan614]

@@handje1234 Buy a hearing aid.

[@garys-617]

And.... Espen DOESN'T have a Hydrasynth...!!??!!? Errrm....🙄🤔🤨

[@nilsvanderplancken]

The vsts sound better than the rev 4, but don’t come close to rev 1-3. Vintage synths are something else..

[@pgpete]

​@@nilsvanderplancken I own the gear I am commenting on.

[@Reyescult]

I could not disagree with your take any more if I tried. I am fortunate enough to own many of those SCAM synths. So, you can take my opinion with a grain of salt. I didn’t pay anywhere near $7k for my 3rd Wave. It is absolutely the best sounding wavetable synth I have ever owned, and I have owned a lot of them.

[@JohnnyADi]

As an owner of the desktop module I 100% agree! All of his prices are way higher than even retail! I haven't bought a synth in 4 years till the 3rd wave.

[@dionysiaex5538]

What does "best sounding" even mean? I would guarantee that in proper double blind tests, let alone in actual tracks, you wouldn;t even be able to pick it out.

[@JohnnyADi]

@@dionysiaex5538 that's sooooo not true. I've listened back and fourth between vsts and own plenty to know it's not the same. You're too broke to know so you just assume we are bullshitting you. And you can't AB comparison like we can. Go educate yourself and go get a job.

[@kokakolagodcomp-vi2yv]

are you the guy he mentions in beginning who has all these strong opinions of his expensive gear and makes no music with them?

[@Reyescult]

@@dionysiaex5538 It means exactly what it 'sounds' like. 😊

[@richardstevens8839]

Anyone who thinks Moog make VST’s in box is in serious need of help

[@nubianrose_theband]

👏👏👏

[@mrkrotosuk]

MOOG was sold off and is now following the path of all the brands sold off, they are all going the same way!

[@genx1144]

Anyone who thinks Moog isn't making VSTs in a box post Moog One is in need of serious help

[@mrkrotosuk]

What is a VST though? Its an application running on an OS within some hardware. The Moog may not be running an actual VST but the concept is the same. All digital synths run an application on an OS within some hardware, so its the same.

[@luiscarlosec]

@@mrkrotosuk Unfortunately, the issue is not as simple as it seems at first glance. There are steps in the hardware chains that make software sound one way in one place and another way in another. I say you this with affection and respect.

[@niklassilen4313]

Looks like Espen has sold his soul to the mighty click bait Gods. Oh well..

[@EspenKraft]

Ok, what title would you put on the video then?

[@niklassilen4313]

@@EspenKraft Something like this: "Do you really need to spend thousands hardware synthesizers? No!". You use words like "scam" and "sucker" which is very disingenuous. For instance the Roland Jupiter X has that lovely sequencer/arp thing that is pretty unique in how you can play with it (a bit like a Korg Karma system). Naturally it's still just a glorified computer with a keybed + knobs but still.. the way you went on about some of these was very click baity. By the way, I really do agree with you almost 100% but the way you put it with all the spliced cringy video clips in between from Wall Street is about as typically click baity as it can get. I like it when you don't try to be so "generic youtuber" and be more yourself. You've grown your audience by being yourself. Don't change now.

[@SandyZoop]

I predict there will be a follow up video revealing it was a prank or something. At least I hope so. Otherwise, well, I can just listen to some songs for a fraction of what he charges, so he must be scamming everyone, right? It’s not like the experience is different, and that he has costs including his own living expenses, the hardware gear, the value of his time practicing and writing, etc. Nope, he’s just a scam when I can just put on a bunch of MP3s for free! Anyone who hires him or buys tickets is just a sucker. Right, Mr. Kraft?

[@EspenKraft]

Then I suggest YOU make a video with that title. I do things my way, as I've always done, and always will. I'll have these words (in Norwegian) on my tombstone. I will NEVER do what other people expect, demand or desire. It's all going to be on MY terms.

[@jason.martin]

Actually Espen is stating exactly what he says in the video which lines up with the title. clickbait is when the content in the video does not reflect the title of the video at all. So it is not clickbait at all

[@alex47a659]

Will there be a story about that very high-class escort?

[@russ254]

came here to find out more xxoo

[@shapeshifta3431]

yeh, she wouldn't sleep with him even though he offered 9kusd

[@luv.matters]

Plugin prices are even more ridiculous doing the same thing lol

[@gadjox]

Some are expensive, some are actually cheap for the amount of work. Synths are cheap, some effects are overpriced af. 150$ for a plugin compressor is overpriced af, but the same for Diva would be more than reasonable.

[@luv.matters]

@@gadjox Even UAD dropped their prices dramatically cause there is no business and they are the best compared to others. However, I called it, they would drop their prices to compete with the other companies. Waves have always been king with sales only because to combat piracy and Plugin Alliance followed suit.

[@RayR]

@@luv.matters Thanks to you I found out UAD dropped their prices. They were to much for a long time...but now even with the lower prices Im really happy with my plugins from other vendors, so I don't see a need UAD anymore.

[@williammchugh4361]

Depends. If you’re savy you can get what I consider Killer Deals on vst. I bought the Arturia collection on a Black Friday deal and for $250 got like 10 different keyboards + other stuff. After, Auturia came out with an updated collection with added new keys including the Ensoniq Sq-80 (I had to have as an Ensoniq fanboy) and 3 others I didn’t have. Because I already bought the collection, they gave me an upgrade deal of $100 which I grabbed immediately. That’s $25 for an SQ-80. $25 for a CZ-1000 etc. that’s a no brainer for their quality. I do think Roland and Korg charge too much for their collections but I previously received all the Korgs with a Korg controller for free. You have to watch for crazy deals, they are out there.

[@luv.matters]

@@williammchugh4361 Ha, sweet!! I have every plugin bundle you can think of, I'm a plugin hoarder, however, I still have my dad's equipment, and they win over any plugin any day. The plugin's sound is thin and does not have that warm round low-end to the sound #bottom #lowend

[@LevGeorge]

I'm learning to play the cello, I have now a very good cello, but that doesn't mean that one day I won't want a much better cello, just like my teacher... It's the same with pianists, it makes a difference whether you play a school, let's say, a basic piano or a Bösendorfer or a Steinway... It's about both the feel and the sound, and the differences are significant.

[@cinemalulli]

It’s pretty funny what you’re saying, considering 90% of your channel is all about hardware gear. But yeah, we’re the idiots, not you. Anything to get a couple more views, huh? Come on.

[@joseluishernandezseptien]

I am surprised to see how this video pushed the buttons of the synth community 🤭 I agree with your thoughts 💭 the truth can be hard to hear at times… Many bedroom musicians drowning in debt with a collection of synths and very little music put together need to wake up. This hilarious video was a lot of fun to watch! Thank you, Espen! :)

[@priscilab8758]

The truth can be a hard pill to swallow and it is not easy to admit you’ve made a bad decision. I’m sure a lot of these costumers are in debt from buying several expensive synths, but will continue to defend these brands that are making so much profit off of them

[@joseluishernandezseptien]

Yep! It is specially true in the synth community since you can get most of the sounds as VST. We don’t need that many expensive synths any more, we make better music with less anxiety and less clutter, and the clients will not know the difference when they listen to synths in a mix and they don’t care what synths you use. However, many bedroom musicians keep telling themselves lies to cope and self validate their expensive purchases.

[@Etienne.6329]

Stupid video, very insightful comment section (some of it) : a lot of industry professionals sharing the reality of their trade. We need facts, not misinformation for views...

[@IanJCole]

This is just click bait that’s 11 minutes of my life I won’t get back

[@CommunityGuidelines]

Don't kid yourself, you would have wasted those 11 minutes even if you didn't watch this video.

[@robertlee1176]

This video is a stroke of marketing genius. Well done Espen.

[@markushorn]

I have "a ton of (hardware) synths" ... and I am making music with it. I am not "outraged" concerning your opinions. I just think that you are completely wrong. And I also think that it is very sad of you not to understand, that nobody makes "a lot of money" with musical instruments. All these instruments are built by people with a lot of enthusiasm. You should thank them instead of bashing them.

[@luiscarlosec]

I completely agree, the video seems to me to be a lack of recognition and gratitude for the people who have dedicated so much time and effort to making magical synths and that unfortunately has cost some of them the ruin. Ultimately, if they make money, they deserve it.

[@jeno.javori_music]

Well, Sometimes Vst is better, sometimes not. But I think the guy has a point. You dont have to be angry on him. It is just an opinion. I have some synths also, but not every synth is as good as it seems to be.

[@jeno.javori_music]

@@luiscarlosec I disagree, I have synths and sometimes for sounbd design I use VST , couse of easy use, and what he said its the truth. Synths are now computers with a different interface.

[@prophei]

WTF are you talking about with these ridiculous prices? For example, you called the 3rd Wave a $7000 synth!! It is $3,495.00 at Sweetwater and other retailers. You are finding ridiculous prices for some of these. Maybe you would be less bitter about this if you had a better synth dealer nearby? Aside from that nonsense, let's speak for the synths made in the SF Bay area. This would include the 3rd Wave, the Oberheim, and all the Sequential synths. All of them need to be expensive to be made here. They are proudly designed and build here locally. It is massively expensive to be here, let alone manufacture here. You might think that this isn't worth it to you, but it does allow some of the most creative and consequential synth designers in modern history to still make things for us. Many live here, and all of the people working for them are here. The next generation of those synth designers are here. The manufacturing is here. Made in the USA means something to some people, and unfortunately, it can't be done very cheap. These synth makers are doing something great in a very expensive place to do it, and it gives people who are here an incredible opportunity to do great things. Some people find that worth paying for. I do. Do they make money on it, of course, but it is hardly the rape of the consumer that you make it out to be. With all your net research, I am sure you can figure out how much a simple office space or warehouse costs in San Francisco, one large enough to make a product. You should tape your jaw to your head before you do, cause it will hit the floor. If everything now must be made in some cheap shop in Asia to placate every synth snob, then let those snobs have those synths. I'll enjoy those made with far higher quality that support our local culture. It also should be mentioned that if you look at what some of the original prices were back in the day, and adjust for inflation, all of your whining is a product of how fortunate you have been with some of the cheap gear available. Note that the stuff built like the old stuff tends to have the higher price. Have you ever manufactured anything? All the metal in those cases is already hugely expensive. The use the good parts, keybeds, metals, etc. They are offering a product for those who want those things. That's not a rip off. People who can only afford software are simply not who they are made for... and so what? I'd have agreed with you about Moog. I got the 16v One and felt ripped off. The 8k it cost was simply waaaaaaay too high. It didn't sound remarkable to me, so I traded it for 3 other synths. Then I hear you comment that the Moog Muse is 5k... again, you way inflate the prices. It is about $3,495.00, on average. that's 1.5k difference! WTF is going on with your numbers? Many of these synths simply don't cost what you say they do.

[@meskisable]

In Europe it cost 6k euro.

[@prophei]

@@meskisable That sounds like European taxes and dealers making money, how is that the fault of synth designers in the USA? He showed a doubled price for the 3rd Wave, and $1500 more for the Muse. Buy them in the US and ship them to Europe then. We have certainly done that with some European gear when it made sense. Point is, taking the very craziest price you can find isn't a good point against a manufacturer who is clearly not taking anything close to that as a profit.

[@prophei]

@@smartti1970 Which is? I checked all the prices before I made the comment.

[@prophei]

To be clear, are we talking about the 3rd Wave right now?

[@mtemmerm]

@@prophei EU import taxes will take care of the difference unfortunately.

[@PacifierMusic]

Seems like you have become so judgmental and opinionated. Not enjoying your channel anymore. It shouldn’t be all about shock value and views. Nobody is being scammed. It’s a choice to purchase.

[@chipchasm]

way to really crap on him!

[@alexandersupertramp3685]

I get the feeling that the video is trying to stir up negativity just to go viral. Instead, I encourage anyone who resonates with this video to explore the concept of user experience. The quality of a synthesizer isn't measured solely by the sound it produces.

[@marklondon2008]

That's literally the only purpose for a synthesiser. I get that people can get emotionally attached to an instrument but you can't get away from the fact that the sound it produces is its primary function. I don't care what the label says. I'd love to have a CS80 but i'm not sure why.

[@theartistcurrentlyknownaszero]

there's a bit of wiggle room when it comes to the free market and what people are willing to pay for, like say, an antique synth or something. I get why some classic synth from the 70s are selling for 10k... it's a collectible. And there's a market for collectibles. But I just can't get behind the argument of selling what amounts to a $1000 synth for 5 times the price.. just because it has the name Roland on it or whatever. I just can't buy into that sort of thing. But, things are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them. So, whatever.. it's just not for me I guess.

[@VideoEssays-n5e]

i'm not the biggest fan of free market capitalism but that's all this is. supply and demand. if we are willing to pay 5200 for a synth then that's what it's worth. it's not a scam it's just the market...nothing you buy is worth what you pay for it. you overpay for everything because profit is king. and these synth companies need to recoup on other losses not directly tied to the manufacturing costs either. payroll, benefits, rent, utilities, taxes, lawyers fees, accounting fees, marketing, etc. just because a synth costs 1200 to manufacture doen't mean that the company doesn't have other expenses. then there's the dealer costs you have to account for. a synth manufacturer is going to sell to dealers primarily, not direct to consumer (with some notable exceptions) and more often than not the overhead on those can be up to 50% so a 5200 synth now nets them 2600, costs them 1200 to produce leaving 1400 for all other associated expenses. i doubt they make more than 15% profit which is about average for businesses in general. we're not suckers, this shit is just a very niche market with high overhead costs. go watch the JHS video of his perspective as a guitar pedal manufacturer. making a pedal for 70 selling for 200 not because he wants to make millions but because that 70 isn't the whole story.

[@tyrellrecords]

I set up a rental and synth programming business in 1982. I have owned almost every synth ever made including the CS-80, Jupiter 8, Fairlight III, PPG, etc, etc,...and still have a small but select collection of them including the 3rd Wave and Deckards Dream which I am lucky enough to be able to compare to the PPG and CS-80 I have had for 30 years. I also have all their emulator plugins and many more of all kinds and I am sorry to say that your analysis is WRONG and your video full of mistakes and inaccuracies.

[@StefaanHimpe]

While I believe that some synths are over-priced, it's weird to see someone make such argument holding an Apple laptop which - let's face it - is probably the most overpriced "value-selling" brand in existence today. My simple brain has trouble connecting these dots.

[@Midee]

6:24 way off there, man. They're running FPGAs, not software emulations. Essentially indistinguishable from actual hardware Also Roland cloud sucks shit lol

[@Wagoo]

This is a common misconception from the early days of Roland's ESC2/BMC chips when we didn't know what they were and were trying to brainstorm what could be running ACB (their "analogue circuit behaviour") - the same chips are used for Zen Core and the shitty "ABM" templates. In reality these are quad core ARM SoC chips.. which also explains the 4 voice from single chip thing running (heavy) ACB on the boutiques as Roland were too cheap to put 2 chips in Jupiter-X/Juno-X also just have a paltry single chip, but Zen Core is easier to run as it's less authentic and just a general VA engine

[@Javarrockamore]

click bait at its finest! I watched your less than stellar video out of boredom because my "vst" I was using froze up so I had to restart fl studio ... the irony. couple points. I own a 3rd wave, Moog sub37 and a trigon. I also am multi platinum , grammy nominated , top billboard producer. there isn't any plugin that sounds better than any of them. Omnisphere is the only that comes close. there is no plugin on the market that can do what the 3rd wave does. im not sponsored by them and I only bought the module. take it from a professional music producer/ engineer, songwriter, sound designer. etc. its not the plane its the pilot. So if the stuff youre making is whack then it's whack. Roland is for sure taking advantage of people and I agree they're getting too expensive. plugins DO NOT sound as good. Again my professional opinion .

[@neonether]

I'm not grammy nominated, but completely agree about the 3rd wave. It's an incredible machine and instrument. And that breath taking sound is a testament to the sheer amount of analog filters and components they packed into it. Sourcing those kinds of parts isn't cheap and there's hard data behind the cost of goods when it comes to sourcing and engineering such a machine. I love Groove Synthesis and applaud companies like that who are taking the plunge on innovating synthesizers like that, hoping to recoup their investment to bring their passion to the world. Ignore this bitter man and play on!

[@JohnnyADi]

I also agree, the 3rd wave is the only synth I bought in 4 years! Nothing sounds as good, the team is amazing. It's a 24 voiced digital moog one. And yes absolutely Roland is a scam, worst big brand synth company in 2024. That's the only thing I agree with. Korg and yamaha made vsts of their flagship instruments to now make them much more affordable for people who just want the sounds. This guy is delusional and gets all the prices way wrong. He's old.

[@vaclavsmerda2103]

The last minute made my day. 18 months ago I bought the Hydrasynth, even though it's digital, I appreciate the aftertouch and the ribbon, I want to play an instrument, not just generate a sound. I hear a lot about the Moog sound, about the Oberheim sound. But I was never really interested in that. I always focused first on who plays and how they play, the unique style a musician has and the music. Recently I bought a second-hand Dreadbox Erebus V2. It's an analog synth and I really like it. I cannot explain it, but just sitting with that small box is quite therapeutic. I love the sound of piano, I have been playing a piano for decades. So I bought a Roland FP-90X, 88 keys, amazing keybed, piano sound modelling which is the closest to what I remember from playing my acoustic piano when I was a kid. This year alone I hear everywhere that Arturia Polybrute 12, Moog Muse, UDO Super Gemini and Oberheim TEO-5 are really great instruments that I should really have. My wife, who has no toperance for my musical experiments, just says that it must be a rip off, surely "they all do the same thing". She has a great way of calming down my GAS. So, Roland FP-90X, Hydrasynth and Erebus it is for me and I am happy with that.

[@stevedeweysmith]

Yes, I'm definitely saving for my mother in laws taxidermy hahahahahahha !

[@sub-jec-tiv]

You realize you sound like ‘angry old man shakes fist at cloud’, right? 😉

[@Wagoo]

hey Rick Beatoff has 4m subs it must work I guess 😂

[@sub-jec-tiv]

@@Wagoo hahaa Yeah well, at some point i did unsub from Beatoff.. and i just unsubbed from Espen, too. 🤷‍♂️

[@chipchasm]

you all are shaking your fist at youtuber. that moral highground is a hell of a drug

[@lesliekirkwood5081]

I definitely smell a rat here! Notice that the only synth manufacturers called out are competition for Behringer. There are many expensive hardware synths that are not called out that are entirely digital. Fact check - 3rd Wave price is $4995 and not $7000. I own one. It has analog circuitry beyond the oscillators, is not a PPG clone, but does that bit perfectly, and really makes anything I am working on sound fantastic.

[@ChrisP3000x]

Try watching the video. He calls out Behringer.

[@phrozend]

@lesliekirkwood5081. No, Espen is correct. It would cost me 73,000 NOK to order a 3rd Wave from Thomann. That's about 6,800 USD. If I were to buy it from Sweetwater for the price you suggest, the import tax would push it right back up to 73,000 NOK. Remember, not everyone live in the US.

[@relaxmax6808]

@@phrozend " Remember, not everyone live in the US. " And i will add : " a Tax is not a choice " .. in any country of this planet ... as i read several times in this comment section. Surely childs in their parent's home : " Just buy on Sweatwater and import synths !! "....

[@relaxmax6808]

​@@phrozendAgree with you. Price a little different in France at 5600 euros/ $ . import from Germany by Thomann. But not at 3500 $ like US Market . It seems taxes in Norway are even higher ...🙄

[@Slurkz]

Although you have a point, don't underestimate the cost of actual hardware. A case with faders, buttons, lights, controllers, I/O, power supply, mainboard and cabling is expensive. For a well built synth like the Juno X the parts-list easily adds up to $1000. And that's excluding development cost, marketing, labour, support and shipping. So the $2000 retail price for a Juno X seems not so bad after all. But $5000 or 7000 for a synth with a similar parts list? Yes: that is scammy.

[@johndeaux3703]

Why is the Juno-X shockingly cheaper on the Thomann site in Germany than what they're asking for it in the US?

[@Slurkz]

@@johndeaux3703 $1500 is cheap indeed... Beats me! I'm from the Netherlands, where it's €2000.

[@johnnyvegas2015]

Agreed 👍

[@johnnyvegas2015]

@@johndeaux3703 in Canada is very similar price to Thomann

[@Slurkz]

@@johndeaux3703 Weird... I'm in the Netherlands, where it's 2000 as well.

[@teddybearasaurus]

I did like my hydrasynth explorer when I owned one. Unfortunately had to sell it but maybe one day I will get the original one or a desktop

[@NeilParfittMusic]

Scarcity and popularity = hot commodity. Applies to ANY product in any industry. I have a ton of vintage monosynths and fun old toy keyboards that I love... but yeah, the hydrasynth explorer is the best executed hardware synth made in the last 20 years.

[@modtech2330]

To summarize this ridiculous video: "You can replace this hardware synth with a free VST" 😆

[@Nunchuckstraberry]

Espen, you have created some fantastic tutorials and content in the past. However, in this video, you have made several ludicrous points. How on earth can any of these modern synths be considered a scam? No one is being deceived, and no companies are keeping digital control a secret. In the case of Sequential/Oberheim, SMD manufacturing practices and digital control are necessary for an accurate reintroduction. Digital control over a completely analog audio path does not constitute a VST in a box. These recreations use the same SSM/CEM ICs as their vintage counterparts. In the case of the X8, it even has the same discrete SEM filter found on the OB-X. The vintage knob is a fantastic addition that Dave developed to add variation between voices. I have compared my Rev 4 to a P-5 2/3, and I found them to be indistinguishable from their siblings because of this knob. Regarding Sequential's products being repairable, they have a dedicated repair team, and their warranty and repair services are top-notch. I know this because I sell synths in a retail space and have had to communicate with them on behalf of my clients. Every issue that has arisen has been resolved. The prices of Sequential's products are justified due to onboard manufacturing, collaboration with other companies for ICs, knobs, CPUs, wood, etc. Last but not least, a significant portion of that capital is invested in R&D. This besides on shore manufacturing is applicable to all of the companies you have mentioned aside from behringer.

[@LesSondiers]

Sorry Espen, but that's a ton of bullshit and misinformation. No offense.

[@maco34576]

Elaborate or youre just another middle aged man who got his feelings hurt by another mans words LMAO

[@LesSondiers]

@@maco34576 well, r&d for a start has a cost. A synth can take years to develop and as a synth maker if you want to get your money back you need to sell a product at a certain price, especially if you know you’re gonna sell just a few units. Let’s remember that the Prophet 5 has only sold a few thousands since it has been unveiled. Saying a high price is scamming people is just plain denial of what boutique synth makers have to deal with to pull out a synth that is worth playing. Just try for yourself and we’ll discuss again. Comparing synth to a vst plugin is also ridiculous because the workflow has nothing in common with playing a real synth with its dedicated controls and workflow. Not to mention that in 5 years, once the OS has evolved twice, and the developer will have other priorities, there’s a change that this plugin will it work anymore. I mean plugins are great, but I still have my virus with me, it still works, it has a great sound, a very cool workflow and I enjoy playing it. Even though access Music is not maintaining it anymore for instance. I could go on with plenty of other reasons why this video is lame, but I guess arguing with people with such poor level of understanding of what makes a synth great is pointless.

[@attizzoso]

I use the knob trick while mixing since the 90's: a dummy channel on the mixer connected to nothing, when the singer say "I guess my voice should be more in front" I just move the fake slider and everyone is happy

[@sparkletune]

I love your channel. I subscribed when you had all your vintage synths but am enjoying it just as much now that you've paired things down. Thanks for the great content. It's always fun to see what you're up to!

[@irondragonrides]

I have a few of the synths you listed including the 3rd Wave (That I paid less then half of the $7k you quoted, btw). Of all that I had the Hydrasynth was the only one I got rid of because of the sound quality, which was not good to me, and no other reason. So the only part I agree with you on is listen with your ears. I once tried to go all software, but the interaction with the computer only was horrendous in the long run and I quickly returned to true hardware interfaces.

[@nujuat]

Not that I want to defend or buy any of these synths mentioned, but knobs and faders are literally how you play synthesisers. As a more dramatic example, using an accordion vst with a midi controller is nothing like playing an accordion, even if you could (virtually) squeeze out similar sounds.

[@EspenKraft]

No, you PLAY synthesizers on their keys. How you PROGRAM a synth is another matter.

[@nujuat]

@EspenKraft even if modifying parameters in real time for expression wasn't a thing, programming is still part of using a synth, and its feel doesn't hold zero value.

[@EspenKraft]

Programming a synth was never a thing to many great players and composers of the past. It was to some. We're all different.

[@torino1138]

⁠@@EspenKraft Eddie Van Halen would like a word lolol

[@EspenKraft]

Eddie is dead. He has no voice.

[@AB_RetroSynth]

i think about how in the 90's all of those amazing synths of the 70's and 80's were selling for dirt cheap.

[@marcanglin7127]

I picked up a MiniMoog for $400 back in 1988 and an Oberheim Two-Voice (with sequencer) for $160 !!! ONE-HUNDRED AND SIXTY DOLLARS !!! Absolute dead-mint condition, as well. People don't know what they have..............................

[@Rr0gu3_5uture]

I bought an EDP Wasp Special in 1993 from a local classifieds for £20!😆

[@Heathcliff_hensel]

In 1996 I scored a 6 voice OBX for $599. And my brother got a Two Voice SEM for $699.00

[@Aetila]

In Sweden I've seen a Jupi 8 for 800 USD, that is the lowest price I've noticed...and I didn't buy it, thought it was a boring synth in 1998, lol.

[@MurrayDagostino]

My juno-60 was 200 bucks in 1996.

[@kptamc]

One folks get beyond the 4th synth, I ask them "Are you a player or a collector" LOL. Hydrosynth was a very good recommendation. The Novation Peak and Summit are good choices as well to compliment the Hydrosynth.

[@soundsurface4881]

I'm a drummer & I actually own roughly around 14 or15 analogue & digital synths that I play via keyboards, drum pads, touch pads, sequencers & mallet controllers, as well as sing into via microphones, and as well, sometimes use a "contactless" theremin, all in various home studio setups. Since I never really sell anything, I asked my wife the other day if she thought I was turning into a "hoarder" & she said "oh no, honey, you're a COLLECTOR!" (In any case, I play most everything almost every day in live solo performance!) ~~~Cheers!~~~

[@tjn0110]

I was already convinced with the F91W👍.

[@LeoMrz]

I started playing synths last year, YT has been my main source of info but after a couple months the synth trend mafia was hard to not notice. Brands, well they gotta profit, and as a beginner hobbyist I’ve been forced to research before buying because of a limited budget, but Espen is definitely one of the few synth artists whose word I trust, mostly because he does make music. Thanks for speaking the truth Esperen Kraft.

[@whatsthemonsterbelow]

Take my advice as a composer for 25 years, you will sell all the gear other than the basics eventually. If you can make money with it, you should buy it. If not, don't. Unless it's a hobby, then that all up to you

[@silvertongues2]

This is just a load of ego nonsense

[@maco34576]

awww did some words hurt you old man? lmaooo btw your music is mediocre at best.

[@77advanced]

I unsubscribed 2 years ago and somehow this video was in recomendations. This channel became from a positive 80s synth geek place to a confused dying channel with old grumpy guy.

[@EspenKraft]

If that is true, then why is the number of subs going up? It's because I still pump out a lot of quality videos that people enjoy and find useful and inspiring. When I do the occasional "opinion video" people like you come out whining about how much better things were when you weren't challenged. You've obviously come to despise. Just move out.

[@EspenKraft]

One man's garbage is another man's gold. You speak as if you matter. You don't.

[@mikenagoda]

@@EspenKraft telling someone they don't matter is mean, petty and uncalled for. There's no need for that kind of behaviour - even if you disagree with someone, they're still a human being who does matter and deserves a basic respect. Your conduct is disgusting to me. I definitely won't be subbing.

[@bonecracker23]

@@mikenagoda well some people, especially those that keep saying garbage need to hear once in a while that their opinions are insignificant…that’s what is meant by “you don’t matter “

[@mikenagoda]

@@bonecracker23 I strongly disagree with you - they don't need to hear this, and what good is belittling them going to do? All you need to say, if anything, is I disagree, and move on. If you're getting irritated by someone else's opinion, that's about you and your emotional reaction, and not about them. There is no valid reason for taking your anger out on them in a malicious way, as it's harmful behavior and can damage a person emotionally. In my estimation, this kind of behaviour is not ok. I felt disgusted by the poster's comment and felt that to not say something would give silent approval to harmful conduct, and I could not let such behaviour slide. That's about me, my emotional reaction to the poster's behavior and my personal values.

[@skieswatcher]

Strongly agree, and came here for the comments 😅🍿🍿🍿🍺