The HATEFUL Relationship Between Mary Queen of Scots & Catherine de Medici, the Serpent Queen

What exactly was the relationship between Catherine de Medici and Mary, Queen of Scots? Did they like each other? Was there spite and venom between them as it appears in the Serpent Queen mini series; or was their relationship much more complex?
This video delves into this topic and find out if there was hate, love or something in between for these two fierce and feisty women in history.
00:00 - Intro
00:49 - Mary Queen of Scots becomes Queen of Scotland
02:12 - Mary Queen of Scots in Convent in France
03:20 - Mary Queen of Scots' Relationship with Catherine de Medici
07:17 - Mary Queen of Scots Marries Franci II
08:08 - King Francis II of France dies
09:36 - Mary Queen of Scots Beheaded for Treason
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The source that I used to get insight into how Mary, Queen of Scots, the child, felt about Catherine de Medici is from a 1904 biography by Jacob Abbott entitled, Makers of History, Mary Queen of Scots. I left a link for you to read this for free, in the community tab of my channel.
So now it's time for you to leave comments and tell me if you think Mary held any animosity towards Catherine and why you think that might be the case. Thanks for watching and don't forget to subscribe if you haven't already.
Thanks for watching!
#theserpentqueen #theserpentqueenstarz #catherinedemedici
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ATTRIBUTIONS
Public domain & Creative Commons lic. via Wikimedia Commons, Wikipedia
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[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Don't forget the FREE TO READ biography on Mary Queen of Scots that I uses largely for this video! Find it in the community tab of my channel! Enjoy!

[@lrbmystic1109]

Thank you for sharing

[@rickg39180]

If Mary had had just a semblance of good sense, she would have learned many things from Catherine, not the least of which, how to navigate at court. Sadly, Mary appears not to have been the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@renshiwu305]

To this very day, Scotland is rather a shitshow of a polity. The Scottish Parliament decamped to London and was merged with the English Parliament at the start of the 18th Century. Scotland never would have formulated the Enlightenment or started the Industrial Revolution if the country had been governed from Edinburgh at the time. Since devolution, Scotland has had a local parliament that is responsible for much of Scotland's governance. And Scotland is once again a basketcase, same as it was during the 16th Century. Mary faced serious rebellions in her time, but no less did her great-grandfather and great-great-grandfather (the younger ancestor was probably executed by the rebellious nobles).

[@saradecapua3264]

Mary ruled with her heart, not her head.

[@deborahgriffith7476]

Mary’s mother, Marie de Guise, ruled Scotland for far longer than Mary. Mary was not smart.

[@CordsZ]

Mary was raised along with Catherine’s children and they got along fine. Mary was isolated, shut out, and eventually sent back to Scotland after her husband’s death because her Guise family members were usurping power from Mary’s son, the next Valois king of France. It wasn’t a personal issue between Mary and Catherine.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@annwilliams6438]

I think Mary looked down her nose at Catherine from when she was old enough to ‘get’ that she was already a queen. That comment she made about being the offspring of a hundred kings was truly snotty, and definitely meant to hurt Catherine. If she had been even a touch as politically savvy as her cousin Elizabeth, she would have made friends with her mother-in-law and would have had a powerful ally.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Good thinking. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@tygressblade]

Frankly Mary Queen of Scots behavior is basically on brand for her historically.

[@j.leeedwards2780]

Mary was not known for her diplomacy nor common sense.

[@ThePharaoho]

True, it seems she went more the Diane De Poitiers route... Catherine was suspicious of Mary though and didn't like her because she was a regnant Queen in her own right who Catherine saw as being manipulated by her 2 powerful Guise uncles. Catherine resented the power of the Guise family, and Mary, having the full support and devotion of King Francis was a powerful enemy in Catherine's eyes.

[@rhondagolliher5228]

​@@tygressblade

[@DorchaEagla]

Francois 1st was the father in law of Catherkne De Medici and the grandfather in law To Mary. Henry 2nd was husband of Catherine, and father in law to Mary Queen of Scots.

[@DorchaEagla]

Francois the 2nd was the husband of Mary, son of Catherine de medici and Henry 2nd and grandson Francois 1st

[@judithgockel1001]

You omitted the rather significant relationship between Mary and her uncles, the Guises. The latter were skirmishing for power in France, and worked tirelessly to use whatever tools came to hand. Naughty fellows.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@williethomas5116]

Mary was not only, a direct descendants of the Guise (house of Lorraine) family through her mother, but though her grandmother Antoinette de Bourbon a descendant of the house Bourbons and Orleans. That made Mary dangerous to Catherine. She was the queen of France in waiting, a Queen of Scotland in her own right and a descendant of the most powerful family at court and a descendant of the rival Royal house waiting in the wings. Although Mary tried to get Catherine to like her Catherine understood that Mary was a danger and befriending her was just not wise. Friendships are never honored and placed above ambition because even if Mary wanted to be loyal to Catherine. Her supporters would not be. Sometimes circumstances created rivalry despite the intentions of the people involved same with Mary and Elizabeth.

[@nomahope3182]

@@williethomas5116 Despite coming from all those powerful families, it didn't save Mary from getting her head chopped off.

[@williethomas5116]

@@nomahope3182 True that's because she wouldn't let things be with the English crown. She didn't have the good sense to shut up and wait. She was crazy to go to England instead of France after she was deposed Plus Francis's death meant she was no longer Queen and a lot of her power within the French court came from being Queen in waiting. Had she and Francis had a son together things would have been completely different. But no heir from Francis took away a lot of her power. But that was after her childhood problems with Catherine.

[@judithgockel1001]

@@williethomas5116 - we all seem to be leaving out dear Diane. If you think she wasn’t in the mix, I suspect we are all wrong. And keeping Catherine in the place that was best for Diane was a very important element in her armory.

[@eugenewebber4887]

When Queen Mary got older, she had realized what it was that Catherine had actually been to her, and resented her selfish suspicious and insecure behaviors toward her.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@historychannelpodcasts]

Another really well done history video. I appreciate the time that you take to add animation and love those new pictures that look like something from deviant are or art station! Good job and I look forward to more!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thank you very much!

[@theresareynolds3133]

My husband and I watch the Serpent Queen every Sunday at 7:00 on Starz, we love it, can't wait for the new season of Becoming Elizabeth starts

[@haleyoneil9172]

I absolutely love the show also!!! My weeks go by so very slow now... I wish I knew her angle with the maid though lol... Guess that's what we all are waiting to see 😀

[@jimmmmy41]

Becoming Elizabeth has been cancelled.

[@martaaquitaine1705]

😢 cancelled 😩

[@k.g.6682]

@@jimmmmy41 bearer of bad news. 🤣🤣

[@stephaniel1354]

I was surprised because modern television has become so ridiculous and unwatchable, but when I saw Samantha Morton was leading i checked the show out and was NOT disappointed! Morton is magnificent and the show is fantastic

[@geoffdemedici]

I had not heard of the series the Serpent Queen, but I will look for it now, thanks for your videos.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

It's so good!

[@freedom_born]

It’s like a 3rd person perspective for the most part. Like how deadpool breaks the 3rd wall and talks to the audience. Very easy easy to get into.

[@ClaireH1418]

They probably had the normal child/parent conflicts that i think Catherine felt was Mary trying to take the crown from her. In that time of history women had no standing and feared for the loss of what little they had.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@haitamsaoud1349]

well Mary was queen by her own right. I think she mostly looked down on Catherine because of her common background.

[@yeehaw6737]

I have just found your channel! It is refreshing to learn about the echos of the past!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@savagedarksider5934]

Great job with the video. Had Mary's first husband would have lived-England,Scotland,and france would have unity.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Yes, you are right! Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@Historylover2004]

You are right ❤️

[@savagedarksider5934]

@@Historylover2004 I was reading this alternative history wiki on Edward 6th; the Tudor Dynasty lasted all the way up until the 20th century.

[@deedranicolehooks]

This was wonderful! Thank you for teaching me something new!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

You are so welcome!

[@christinecameron1612]

The basic fact is, Catherine as foster-mother was really the only mother young Mary ever knew. The birthgiver she met once did, yes, give birth, but it was catherine who raised her, educated her, and shaped her.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

That is true. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@renshiwu305]

Her grandmother, Antoinette de Bourbon, she who grabbed the Duke of Guise's manhood (her son) while he was in the bath, was Mary's actual surrogate mother and mentor.

[@ThePharaoho]

@@renshiwu305 I think all 3 women: Antoinette, Diane, and Catherine played an integral role in her upbringing as women in power. Even her mother Marie de Guise who was valiantly fighting to save her throne in Scotland had an effect.

[@ClaireH1418]

Thank you again for another wonderful and informative video.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

So nice of you

[@margaretbarra6390]

There was also MOSES uncles,the Duke of Guise and the Cardinal of Lorraine who were on occasion politically apposed to Catherine in the French court as well as being alien of Diane de Portiers. Mary never really excelled at understanding how politics influenced interpersonal affairs ( she never really got why her and Elizabeth couldn't be BFF, or ever fully understood the Clan politics within Scotland).

[@margaretbarra6390]

Autocracy changed M Q S to Moses. Sorry

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@rebeccaduffin8752]

😂 I thought you were saying they were old. Good ole autocorrect ☠️

[@cocokai9661]

I've read very different accounts from what you presented here. I've read that Mary was spoiled as she was a favorite of the king. Catherine was not loved by her husband and suffered abuse from him, his mistress and many at court. Mary was said to have joined in with the mistreatment of Catherine, knowing that she would be protected by the king (remember, while he lived, Cahterine had no power). Mary was a mean girl, quite full of herself and to be honest, of barely average intelligence. She found herself unfortunately in rival with two of the most extraordinary women of history. Catherine and Elizabeth were both incredibly intelligent and skilled. Mary thought she could compete but she was WAY out of her league. Eventually Elizabeth had no choice but to execute the foolish Mary. Elizabeth had given Mary every chance to stop with her schemes and plots but Mary foolishly continued.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

You might want to see my other video about Mary : kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJWwgpiAYr56bbc Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@Dd-bx1up]

comments like this one - and I see there are plenty of them in thus section - have literally any root in the historical facts, but rather reflect the imagination of each author. Fyi: Mary was extremely intellligent, humorous, witty and generous; she received an exquisite education in France and she was constantly praised by her teachers for her cleverness and excellent abilities in learning. She gave presentations in rethoric and poetry in front of the king and the royal court and everybody was charmed by her grace and sparkly intelligence. The sources are unanimous on these points. I simply don't get how people can make so easily and without hesitation such ungrounded affirmations😳

[@cocokai9661]

@@Dd-bx1up That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever read! Obviously you have a bit of a crush on Mary!

[@jackieb.2642]

Personally I think Catherine was extremely jealous of Mary. Not only because Mary was beautiful, smart, talented, and had royal blood, but also the fact Mary being from Scotland was not considered an outsider like Catherine was being from Italy and that everyone in court loved Mary where as Catherine didn’t fit in. Mary also had a loyal husband who deeply loved her while Catherine’s husband cheated on her constantly with her own cousin. It could also have to do with Mary possibly reminding Catherine of Diane or maybe Diane and Mary shared a close relationship.

[@dsham5971]

Wasn’t Mary responsible for the deaths for those who were Protestants? I think Catherine finally got tired of being over looked as an asset by the council.

[@Mysticflower._94]

Really enjoyed this. Thanks. 👌

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@renshiwu305]

I can't believe that I've made it through the episodes of this series (fast-forwarding here and there). There's not one likeable character except Anne de Montmorency. The characters' personalities diverge from their historical tendencies, too. Francois I was not boorish, he was charming and gracious. Henri II was not some fanciful child; he was rather morose, unlike his character in the series. Diane de Poitiers wasn't jealous of Catherine de' Medici - she actually encouraged Henri to do his duty by her. I suppose plots need crafting, and plots might need invention to make them more varied, but it's distracting from the perspective of historical accuracy.

[@carterbentonjr399]

Mary was beautiful and highly cultured but when it came to common sense, lets just say Mary could've been a little more less uppity and more thoughtful when presented with opportunities to make friends and influence people.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@pbohearn]

What’s up with her seeing her biological mother only once and being raised by her mother-in-law? All these things are so abnormal in royal families; hence their personality disorders.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Good point. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@sunnylaurie91]

It could have something to do with allegiance. If Mary still had her mother around,they probably believed it could cause issues whereas completely isolating her would make her « loyal » . Also culturel norms almost dictated that upon marriage,the woman completely belonged to the husband’s side which is why a lot of people preferred male children especially if a great deal of wealth is involved.

[@mattwilson50]

Scotland was chaotic when Mary was born and would remain so even after she was an adult. England invaded Scotland during Mary's first years, in order to strong-arm the Scottish into granting Mary in marriage to the young Prince Edward Tudor. It was safer to keep Mary in France, with Scotland under the regency of her mother (which regency would have existed even if Mary had remained). Scotland and France had a diplomatic alliance ("the Auld Alliance") directed against their mutual enemy, England. The marriage between Mary and young Francis strengthened this alliance. Mary's uncles in France were powerful noblemen, so suitable warders of young Mary.

[@user-ey4rc5tu4t]

I think it may depend on when Mary was giving this opinion. Sometimes we learn how much we admire our teachers after they are gone.

[@dawnmuse6481]

I found it amusing that you used the pool at Hearst Castle to be a background for french opulence.😂

[@jinxmas]

You want your mind blown? Samantha Morton plays Mary Stuart in Elizabeth: The Golden Age.....full circle!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Yes I know! She is an awesome actor. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@dkalbryte6774]

I thought of that before I saw your comment. Watch Queen Margot, Virna Lisi played Catherine perfectly.

[@vindictivetiger3958]

It's interesting that the issue of Mary's uncles played no part in your coverage of Catherine de Medicis' attitude towards Mary.

[@ThePharaoho]

I agree. Mary's position as Queen of France gave her Guise uncles their power, for King Francis was devoted to Mary who took advice from her Guise uncles; much to Catherine's dismay, for she resented the Guise influence.

[@Ashley-vs8nu]

With all that time spent at court Mary should have been more savvy...that obviously didn't work

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Yes, she really didn't measure up to the task overall. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@paulboswell8345]

Mary was raised by Diane de portier the kings mistress as she also was in charge of Catherine’s other children history shoes that both Diane and Mary got on rather more so than Catherine because more time was spent together

[@raventoocute3006]

Who else is watching this because you're watching the serpent Queen on prime video?

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I'm watching on Starz but I hear that you can get it on Prime as well.

[@Historylover2004]

I love Mary Queen of Scots very much. I've read a lot of biographies about her. She is really important to me ❤️

[@user-jz5ih6nc2p]

I feel the same way

[@hyperactivehyperbole]

She was such a beautiful young girl.

[@Dr.Yalex.]

She was born a "queen" with a long line of kings... she was doomed from the beginning

[@Historylover2004]

Yes, Mary was so beautiful ❤️

[@lrbmystic1109]

I think Catherine was preparing her for the job of queen . Mary should have listened better and she may have kept her throne in Scotland.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

True! Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@user-pf1st2fy5n]

There is one sad fact in history so often overlooked. Mary Stuart was not an English subject to Elizabeth I; therefore to be charged with treason as English when she was not, was wholly against any law at the time, and her death was unlawful and more than tragic. Plus, as a Queen not a consort, she was on equal standing with Elizabeth I, and could not be executed under any kind of legal authority.

[@Dr.Yalex.]

Тhank you for your excellent work! Poor little Mary... she never stood a chance after her husband passed... Henry VIII married his brother's wife, yet Mary wasn't able to do that as Catherine wanted her out from the start. Mary's long pedigree made Catherine feel too common... just looking at the "born to be queen" child made her sick... Poor women!!!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@AtheneNoctua7]

Katharina de Medici war reich und einflussreich ...das zählte auch damals schon mehr als eine Riege erbkranker Vorfahren. Das wussten auch die Valois. Maria Stuarts Name hat nur durch Katharina von Medici und Elisabeth I überlebt.

[@Historylover2004]

My poor Mary ❤️❤️❤️

[@stephanieking4444]

This interesting attempt at investigating the relationship between Mary Queen of Scots and Catherine de Medici is oddly set to a 19th century piano tune, taking us out of the 16th century context. Why not go for 16th century background music?

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

🤔

[@hayatwy]

They both , simply because they were born a female , suffered so much it warped their mind .Just a tiny speck of power and they were so cruel with revenge to ANY one that attempted to take it away !!!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Interesting analysis. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@SiberianTeacherHistory]

There's a factual mistake in the video. Francis II was not the son of Francis I but his grandson. His father was the French king Henry II (Catherine de Medici's husband).

[@nathanwilliams4555]

I think you got your kings mixed up, it was Henry 2nd of France that was Francis 2nd father. Mary Queen of Scots by Antiona Fraser is a great source of information.

[@pattyhammett8333]

Very interesting for me . Needed to fill in the blanks

[@knewkirk8855]

Catherine was jealous

[@charlottestewart5802]

So, one usually has a complexed, many faceted, relationship with one's mother-in-law, which has layers of love and respect, but also jealousy and resentment. I'd reckon this was no different. Yes, Catherine was painfully aware of her "common" status, and knew she totally owed her status as queen to her marriage to the king. That is a very insecure place. Of course I don't know how they really felt, but I would bet it was not black & white, but a kaleidoscope of feeling.

[@truthbetoldtarot]

What series is the thumbnail

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

TV series called, The Serpent Queen. Season one can be streamed right now at Amz Prime, Starz and I think on the Roku channel. Of course all with subscription fees. Season 2 will be available on Starz but no date is set yet.

[@truthbetoldtarot]

What movie is this called

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

TV series called, The Serpent Queen. Season one can be streamed right now at Amz Prime, Starz and I think on the Roku channel. Of course all with subscription fees. Season 2 will be available on Starz but no date is set yet.

[@lisvalerio2453]

mmm, after numerous retellings of the story, seems as if both Catalina and Elizabeth were met with so much against them, it was understadable they became so terribly able and heartless in their reigns. on the contrary, Mary seemed to never be the one navigating the ship. apparently more like a snotty, silly, entitled child, managed by everyone who wanted to pull her strings. all 3 queens faced horrible adversity. but she did not profit from it. kept insisting in a bratty attitude unsuported by the well run web of personal ambitions that kept the other two in power no matter what.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Good analysis. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@ironshieldmaiden7822]

It feels as if Mary Queen of Scots was never satisfied.

[@sexydoorframes]

Mary wasted her chance to study Catherine in action. Mary truly believed she was divine, sent from God to be Queen. She never thought that her Queenship could be stripped. She could be very demanding and stubborn in those regards. (aka her obsession with being named heir in England.) Where as Catherine always knew that the stack of cards could come falling down at any point. She knew it could all go away in an instant, I mean, before she got pregnant, there was talk of putting her aside along with her families history and her life before coming to France was complicated. So possibility of losing the crown was always in the forefront of Catherine's mind. But that idea never entered Mary's and it's a shame, because it would've come in very useful because Mary walked a tightrope as a Catholic Scottish Queen, but she didn't realise it. She thought her queenship was a given. But it wasn't. So I wish she paid more attention to the lessons that Catherine could've provided. It would've helped her a lot in her future. It was a missed opportunity. But in all, I think they had a somewhat complicated relationship. Mother in law and daughter in law relationships can be fraught with complications even when you both like each other. There were probably warm moments, but I think Catherine didn't respect Mary as a person but respected her as Queen. Catherine was made from stern stuff and Mary wasn't. Catherine thought about her moves before she made them, Mary often chucked caution to the wind etc. They were two very different people. I think it's more likely there was a bit of love, a bit of dislike and a lot of tolerance because as I said, two completely different people. But as they both loved Francis, I think they would've tried to always remain cordial to each other and be nice when needed for courts sake, but wouldn't choose each others company if they didn't have to do so/be seen getting on.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Nice analysis. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@renshiwu305]

Mary, Queen of Scots was a queen regnant. Her right was from birth. Catherine de' Medici's power was entirely dependent upon 1) her position as spouse to the king and 2) mother to the king (Francois II, Charles IX, Henri III). Most monarchs believed that their position was divinely ordained. Nothing unusual or untoward about that, for the time period. Mary united the crowns of England and Scotland via her son, James I. She was more consequential than Elizabeth I by that simple fact. Mary had problems ruling Scotland, but consider: she was raised abroad; she was a Catholic monarch in a largely Presbyterian kingdom; she was young and inexperienced (because she was raised abroad, as a ward of her mother's family, without a ruler's education); and she was a woman. Mary's great-grandfather died in battle with rebellious nobleman (he might have been executed after battle, in fact). Her great-great-grandfather faced a serious rebellion from his nobleman, too. Scotland was a chaotic kingdom, and it would have been hard for anyone to rule that land of clan feuds and overmighty lords. Mary's clerk, Davide Rizzio, was murdered right in front of her. If men were willing to burst into the queen's chambers, armed, and stab her servant before her eyes, do you think that that is a court of dignity and order? Men don't like female rule, either. To varying degrees, the men who would govern England begrudgingly submitted to Jane Grey's, Mary I's, and Elizabeth I's authority. Mary's court was even less deferential to the "monstrous regiment of women," as the misogynist preacher John Knox put it (he hated Elizabeth I as well as Mary, Queen of Scots).

[@sexydoorframes]

@@renshiwu305 @RenShiWu Oh yeah. I agree. This is just a small comment on the aspects of Catherine and Mary's relationship. Not about Mary as a whole. All of them believed that, but history has shown that the claim can be stripped and you can be replaced. I don't think that ever entered Mary's mind that she, while divined by god yadda yadda, that she could be stripped of her power and replaced. If she had that in the front of her mind, she might have been able to act differently, especially when she gave birth to a male heir that made her claim to misogynists even weaker as they had a perfect replacement that could be controlled and she was getting close to 25. She believed in her divine right, but it didn't matter, it mattered what other people thought about the divine right. Like it doesn't matter about your claim if no one will back you. And I think any woman would've struggled to hold Scotland no matter who they were, but a catholic queen even more. Like let's have an example, I'm sure Elizabeth didn't have to worry about being SA/forced to marry that way from her inside councillors, Mary did. She knew they would voilate her if it got them power. Catherine always did have the forefront that power could be stripped at any moment, Elizabeth did too, due to her life. But Mary didn't take that threat completely seriously. And obviously Elizabeth had people who wanted to help HER stay on her throne, Mary's people didn't care, as long as they had power. Elizabeth had real faithful people who dedicated their life to keeping her on that throne, Mary didn't. Mary made a lot of mistakes, but sometimes she was impossible situations that the answers of what she should've done, still aren't clear. Her life is full of tragedy and she had a lot of cards against her, but in certain situations, she expected her claim and power to hold and if she realised that her power was more of an illusion, she might have been able to make different decisions. While Catherine is the perfect person to study and take lessons from, growing up in France didn't help her a lot when it came to governing Scotland and understanding it's complexes. I mean, the amount of outright obvious assassinations in Scotland speaks for itself on how different it was compared to other places.

[@Dd-bx1up]

@@sexydoorframes Mary was doomed from the very beginning, as a Catholic, intelligent, beautiful and dangerously charismatic legitimate heir to the throne of England. The truth about her cannot be found in romanticized movies and biased English TV documentaries made for the general public, but in historical books and biographies, based on historical sources and facts. Mary was extremely precautious and skilfull when she came in Scotland where she was surrounded by the treacherous and bribed by England Scottish lords. England (E 1 and Cecil) made everything not to allow her to reign, being behind all the calamities she had to endure in Scotland: the assasination of Rizzio (which was in fact an assasination attempt against her, who was pregnant with another Catholic legitimate heir to the English throne, but her courage and dignity in front of the murderers made them to step back), the assasination of Darnley (which, in fact, was another attempt to assasinate her, but she changed her plans in the last minute) etc.. From the very beginning E1 made everything not to allow Mary's return in Scotland. She refused Mary a royal permit to cross the English seas in her way from France to Scotland - which was such an unexpected, useless and agressive attitude that Thockmorton, the English embassador, felt completely ashamed and unable to give Mary any explanation (Elisabeth finally issued the permit, realising how inappropriate the gesture was, but it was to late, Mary had already left France). Even so, with all the English plots and all those treacherous protestant lords surrounding her, in the impossible and ungovernable Scotland, in only few years, by her diplomatic skills, courage in front of danger, charm, witt, dignity and visionary approach (she was the first leader in those times who recognised,avant la lettre, the religious freedom of her subjects) she managed to gain the respect of the Scottish lords, to give a heir to the throne, to keep Darnley under control (btw, from a strictly political point of view, Darnley was a brilliant choice, being from a strong Catholic familly with royal blood and the next in line to the English throne). She made a mistake, indeed, by marrying Bothwell, but she was so exhausted after so many tragedies and so understandable desperate to find a helpful loyal strong help in all that stormy political environment). But even so, her real mistake was to go to find help in England. She didn't realise that Liz and Cecil were ready to do everything, literally everything to get rid of her. They had no right to judge her - an annointed queen - to imprison and to execute her. Her trials in England were illegal, her letters were forged, her 19 years imprisonment was a sadical abuse. She had to pay not for her mistakes, but for being the Catholic legitimate, young, smart and dangerously charismatic and legitimate alternative to the stollen by Elizabeth English throne. Mary was, indeed, the tough cookie. Catherine, in her place, would have abandoned from the very beginning her Catholic faith. But Mary was, indeed, made from another material. She was,before all, a spiritual being, and not at all ready to sacrifice faith and soul for a crown in the terrestrial kingdom.

[@michellecrocker2485]

You’d think that Catherine would have understood the need to be a mother to because she never had that influence herself. Where was Catherine’s compassion? Geez, that lady was cold

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@israelizzyyarrashamiaak766]

I’d like to say embroidery and making babies before antibiotics and C sections isn’t my idea of a good life! Queen or peasant. I had 4 Cs.! I would have just died! I have 2 daughters and I am a daughter, obviously lol. I think Catherine was very unkind to Mary. From all I’ve read anyway. Mary resented the only mother she’d ever known being horrible to her. Mary used what she had as a defense ,the comment about being from a legacy of royals. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I fought for power and my daughters fought me for power. I believe the power struggle is natural. Remember you can’t have 2 Queens and just 1 castle 😉 I love Mary Queen of Scots. I see the entire history of the Tudors differently and the Medici family. I mean Elizabeth 1s virgin nonsense lol. I definitely didn’t buy the narrative

[@bellat3280]

I don't think Catherine hated Mary but I do think she saw Mary's presence as a threat, because Mary brought with her, her uncles the Guise brothers who were power hungry and were corrupting her sons council. So I don't think she had Mary leave out of spite more out of necessity. It's obvious Catherine had a hard time trusting anyone, which makes it understanle that she'd want be the one to guide her sons (especially after it was prophecised that her sons would be the end of the Valois line). I mean if I had the childhood she did I would have full blown trust issues too. I also think she didn't want to get attached to Mary because she knew that Mary would return to Scotland one day or be k*lled, so she was cold and distant to her in attempt to push her away. She's learned through her life that people in their position are being threatened from all sides and anything could happen to any of them at any moment. No one is safe. If anything Catherine was a woman of her time, she was a mother, she knew to trust no one.

[@bellat3280]

As someone with trust issues and attachment issues its familiar. We let people in to a certain point, but tend to always keep people at arms length, either because we don't trust them or because we know that if we get too close and something we're to happen to said person it would break us. But the trust issues mean one miss-step can cost our entire relationship. So we come off as cold and distant, and shutting someone out because they broke our trust people will think we hate them.

[@baylorsailor]

Catherine wasn't of noble or royal blood. That is why Mary and other courtiers looked down their nose at her because to them she was just a wealthy commoner. It was as simple as that. They didn't believe Catherine belonged in the position of Queen.

[@mrunmayeetamboli3776]

U scared me at 7:39 !!

[@pattya796]

Catherine had a very different young life, she did what she had to do to survive, and after dealing with Her husband’s Velcro mistress for decades, she sincerely tried to rule judiciously and wanted a religiously tolerant France, as regent. On the other hand, Mary, as proven by her many actions in Scotland later in life, was mostly childishly ruled by her heart and demonstrative entitled-ness instead of putting her country before her own neediness, not to mention her fanatic Catholicism - and probably played a role in the murder of her own husband - however, that may be the smartest thing she did.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Hey there. Welcome! Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@Dd-bx1up]

you watched too many movies about Mary and you didn't read any serious biography of her, based on historical facts. Mary was not a fanatic at all, in fact, she was the first monarch in her time who wanted to give, avant la lettre, religious freedom to her subjects (which E1 never did, bcs she persecuted the catholics massively, even though not publicly). Mary, as Catholic queen, was a pain in the ass for Cecil an England, in general, who wanted badly a protestant and submissive Scotland. That is England did everything to remove Mary from Scotland's throne. When she came in Scotland almost all Scottish lords were bribed by England to make her life miserable. Basically, she was surrounded by traitors. They even tried to assasinate her, but she acted so couragesly that they made a step back and the ended by killing only David Rizzio. Despite all these, she managed, step by step, to gain their respect. Choosing Darnley was a big mistake, indeed, bcs he didn't show his true colours from the beginning. But from a strictly political point of view, it was a smart move, which could enhance the Catholicism in her country since Darnley came from a strong Catholic Scottish family, with royal blood. Mary never wanted E1's throne, this is a stupid popular myth backed by some Brittish historians who are obseseed to save E1 image. She wanted to be recognised as E1's heir. Yes, toward the end of her ILEGAL 19 years imprisonment, exhausted and exasperated by E1 refuse to liberate her, she might have been tempted to plot against E1. But even so, she was extremely precatious and she didn't write something incriminating in her letters. Walsingham had to forge her letter to Babington, by adding a paragraph written by a forger. All in all, Mary's fall was inevitable not because of her mistakes, but bcs England wanted her dead from the very beginning. Her only chance would have been to become a Protestant. Which she refused to do, indeed.

[@windchill5906]

You got one wrong Francis II of France , father was King Henry 11 ; King Francis I was King Francis I was the grandfather of Francis II.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Slip of the tongue. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@michellecrocker2485]

I think it was Catherine wanting to maintain the influence at court and Mary wanting the upper hand of Catherine

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@fmcg5364]

Katherine de Medici reminds me of my late father's last wife

[@DavidRussellFerguson]

So here's a question I can't find the answer to I was wondering after watching The Serpent Queen; Did Mary, while queen consort, order the persecution and execution of Protestants in France? I can't find any information around this, so I'm wondering if it really happened or if it was an element of fabrication in the show to show Mary as unhinged due to her Catholicism.

[@Dd-bx1up]

no, she didn't. She had no involvment in the Amboise episode (she only had to assist at the execution).

[@TheBrownPandaOO]

1:50 is factually wrong. Francis I did not arrange the marriage of Mary, the Queen of Scots. Francis I’s son is Francis, the Duke of Brittany, the older brother of Henry II who is the husband of Catherine de Medici. The Duke of Brittany died at 18 before becoming the King. Henry II’s son, also named Francis, became Francis II of France. You skipped a generation.

[@boiicrazy01]

King Francis married her to his son or grandson? I thought it was Henri's son not his brother?

[@renshiwu305]

King Francois I, father to Henri II and father-in-law to Catherine de' Medici. King Henri II, father to Francois II and father-in-law to Mary, Queen of Scots.

[@boiicrazy01]

@@renshiwu305 so it was king Francois I grandson. At one point in the video she said it was king Francois I son and it confused me

[@gloriahufnagel5556]

Maybe, Mary was treated like crap by Catherine, as a child… & when she got old enough to realize SHE was the boss, NOT Catherine, she gave her back what she got, probably only worse.. BUT… hopefully, they really got along .. sounds like Mary was looking like a mommy. Catherine sounds not so nice..

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@gloriahufnagel5556]

@@fabulouswomeninhistory THANK YOU!! As a fellow Scotswomen ( my mom was born there) , I really enjoy these videos!

[@dsham5971]

So these kids were business deals and nothing more.

[@0hMyLife]

4:54-5:04 You say here that Mary is destined to be the wife of King Francis I's eldest son........but Mary wasn't even born for 6, almost 7, years AFTER Francis III, Duke of Brittany died. How could they have ever been engaged???? Francis III, Duke of Brittany was however briefly engaged to Mary Tudor when they were both very young children. Obviously this marriage never happened.. BUT his nephew and (kinda) namesake, King Francis II, was engaged and married to Mary, Queen of Scots.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I meant grandson. Misspoke

[@0hMyLife]

@@fabulouswomeninhistory ah! Whoopsie!!!! I was like wait...what?? How?? Lol

[@BklynBabe]

@@fabulouswomeninhistory it happens when every second generation has the same names 😂😂😂 I can't ever keep these folk straight.

[@dresqueda]

From the get go? Do you mean from the beginning? Mediaeval parental relationships can not be mapped onto modern notions of family life. Beliefs about individual self and of obligations to family and nation state connections (in the case of the aristocracy the same thing) were different than today.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Hey there! Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@isabellegallagher8002]

henry II was the french king , the SON of francisI

[@Stand663]

This is all like a game of chess. Lol

[@Peaches_H_Nyce]

Unfortunately my opinion of Mary has been formed through television and KZbin historians. As such, my interpretation of her is of a relentless and disillusioned pitical pawn who was a religious heretic.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@Dd-bx1up]

you are right, even after her death, so many centuries distance, they are still trying so hardly to mystify her story and her image. She is the most slandered queen in history (which shows how dangereous she really was irl), while E1 one of the most idealised monarch in history.

[@mclr60]

It's funny but that actress played both women.

[@siri1128]

Mary might have looked down at Catherine. She was more than likely presumptuous then if she later tried to take the throne of England. She and Catherine were probably very similar and able to recognize each other as manipulative.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@julianakleijn9254]

Catherine was nuts