The Hero is Defeated | Zelda Timeline EXPLAINED!

[@alexillo150]

This also explains why twinrova appears in oracle of ages, they were never defeated on that timeline!

[@Khaliljt]

Sooo link just got defeated because he couldn’t move a heavy block?

[@seanthechallenger577]

Pretty much.

[@giwrgosmpartsiwkas9292]

Yeah and he just returned to a different let's say time realm then we have a time realm with ganondorf triumphed link as a child and link as an adult thx to zelda link has created three scenarios or three different lives but that doesn't explain how he died in mayoras mask though did he died or he just lived

[@DDarkNut]

@@giwrgosmpartsiwkas9292 He didnt die in Majora's mask. He went back to Hyrule, and became part of the Royal Knights. He felt lost for no one remembers his exploits as the hero of time (only the adult timeline knows of his efforts). He most likely fell in battle but did not pass on and eventually became the Hero Shade and taught his skills to the Hero of Twilight.

[@giwrgosmpartsiwkas9292]

@@DDarkNut nice theory

[@zeldanerd4758]

Yeah guys sorry to burst your bubble but some of this isn’t true he does die and was not defeated by a block

[@Phil_Myth]

I like this defeated rather than died theory. However, don't you need to go back in time twice to complete the game? Once for silver gauntlets yes, but also once earlier for the lens of truth?

[@aka_Nook]

You can obtain both items you need in that one trip back. I was going to include that in the video, but it was going to add a whole other chapter to the video that felt unnecessary. But it is also possible to beat the game without the lens of truth. It just makes things more difficult (guessing where platforms are in the Shadow Temple, etc).

[@ProudHeretic1984]

You also need the lens of truth to pass the desert in order to get to the Gerudo Temple. You have to do that as adult Link before to go there as Child Link. So no matter what you have to go to the Child Timeline once before you reach the Gerudo Temple.

[@aradragon9342]

the way I see it, getting the lens of truth is more of a Fluid Change in history, that is to say: a change that has no effect on the future, allowing him to return to the exact moment he left. Whereas getting the Silver Gauntlets is a Solid Change, a change so significant that creates a whole new timeline.

[@stewgems4256]

One could say Link was defeated twice.... once for the lense and twice after the temple.

[@WolfBoyLovesAnarchy]

The lens isn't actually needed at all to complete the game, both haunted wasteleland and the shadow temple can be completed without it Zeldawiki, lens of truth - "Despite its usefulness, the Lens of Truth is not required to complete the game. Any of the puzzles and traps based around it can be solved through luck or trial-and-error"

[@killysnowsw]

Not gonna lie, I like this timeline. The games are cool, the soundtrack is cool, and it's just overall pretty cool.

[@OmegaCKL]

There are 3 types of Zelda videos I watch: 1) Theories 2) Gameplay/ Fan animations 3) Link's Barrel Beat

[@Kyzoren]

I like this interpretation of "Hero is defeated" better... Although... legit death still applies to "Hero defeated"... but only in the adult timeline...

[@theloruleanhistorian]

How do you figure? The Adult Timeline comes about from the ending when Link and Zelda speak after Ganon was sealed, and she restored him to relive his childhood. The era that followed this had no hero to face off against Ganondorf upon his return because he-and any potential, direct descendants-were lost to that timeline. It was only many generations later that a new hero emerged, the Hero of Winds, seemingly from a more distant heroic lineage.

[@brandonmaboroshi9561]

One flaw. You forgot about going back in time to get the lens of truth after learning song of storms.

[@coleyounger6256]

Brandon Maboroshi you don't need the lens of truth.

[@dizzyd4205]

This is a dope video. I've always considered the defeated hero timeline as the original. Maybe there was no hero, and link was sent there to change history. Maybe his mom and dad were another zelda and link from another game, but I really don't know. I like this theory alot, you made alot of sense.

[@aka_Nook]

That's a pretty good theory too! Glad you enjoyed the video :)

[@ricotheskunk3062]

One thing that may debunk this theory is the Song of Storms. It is a closed paradox loop where Adult Link learns it from the windmill person, who in turn learned it from CHILD Link, which would not be possible without the first thing happening. This implies that the time traveling mechanic in OOT work in a way like Back to the Future, rather than like in the Future Trunks Arc of Dragon Ball Z.

[@DigitalDrew92]

This was really interesting to watch, I always assumed that the Hero Defeated timeline was Link dying. You really taught me something interesting today, it floors me how you understand and come up with this stuff. My head hurts just thinking about it lol, keep up the amazing work man.

[@aka_Nook]

I've spent many years talking and reading about Zelda Lore and timeline topics. I have a couple hardcore friends and every once in a while we just fall into talking about theories.

[@MrZangetsu468]

The problem with this theory is that Nabooru isn't awakened as a sage in your version of the HIDT/ DT. In AOL, there's a town named after Nabooru and she's mentioned in BOTW (DT) which means she actually was awakened.

[@rGGdom]

good theory, except from the fact that you also have to go to the past to get the lens of truth. So that would be 2 time travels, plus the child and adult timelines, 4 timelines.

[@DaHeadHunter076]

Well I mean it is possible to get the lens of truth on the same trip if you plan it right.

[@williamatchison5230]

The lens of truth is optional. Isn't it?

[@caseymcpherson5658]

While I second the point of The Big Bad Wolf, it's also worth noting that the downfall timeline could have identical duplicates, come to think of it that might explain shadow Link in A Link Between Worlds being another player... the timelines being so close to identical could be causing you to see images of one of the many duplicate time lines left by the hero of time (I know it's more of an Easter egg than canonical, but there are several cases throughout the time line where events from two sides of the time line bleed into each-other in ways that don't necessarily require a canon explanation) another example would be Beast Ganon in Twilight Princess having the scar from the hero of time stabbing him in the face (despite his being sealed away coming about through a completely different series of events which had nothing to do with face stabbing)

[@garyevans4516]

Radel Gratereaux Gautreaux I was thinking the exact same thing

[@ivaniawren5014]

it's also very possible tat there are a few "hero is fallen" timelines that play our exactly the same way, isn't it? This theory still makes more sense than "When link dies this _one_ time."

[@carrastealth]

The "Hero is Defeated" stuff has been there since The very first Legend of Zelda sequel. Zelda II: the Adventure of Link Remember if you die in Zelda II you see Ganon laughing and text telling you that he's been resurrected. There are games that is the direct fallout of Link failing in Zelda II. So really when you die in Zelda II that ending where Ganon is laughing at you and is ressurected IS the ending of that timeline where Link fails and it goes on to the next. We just keep playing through it will we get to our victory at the end and that's what we experience because we see it through to the end, but the timeline where Ganon is resurrected because we failed at any point still exists as well. NINTENDO's been doing this since the beginning.

[@Toxik_Dubz]

That's not correct...there's no games in the Zelda 2 fallen hero timeline...

[@ausgamecollector]

@@Toxik_Dubz What if FSA Ganondorf was only born because of a ritual where Link’s remains were placed on Ganon’s ashes…

[@brendopls]

so is this timeline created every time he returns to the past? Because you also need to do it to get the lens of truth and the song of storms...

[@TheLinkszal75]

Exactly

[@nickalvarez8790]

Was just going to comment this

[@JamesCPotter13]

My thoughts were that the Hero Defeated timeline comes from Kakariko village, in which you can't get into the Shadow Temple unless you have the Lens of Truth...but the well is sealed up. So you go back in time to get the lens by draining the well...but this leaves a timeline where the well is still filled...because it's impossible to get to the temple. I may be misremembering

[@Darkjustifier]

can't speed runners get them without time jumping?

[@incogneeto982]

shad slayer speed runners often times sequence break and do things that isnt supposed to be possible in game. because of this, any speed run version of events should not be considered as canonical. so the answer would be that there are 2 points where returning to the past is canon

[@TisGrym]

Something weird to think about. If the downfall timeline is one where link left like in the adult timeline, this would also mean that the hero’s spirit no longer exists in the downfall or adult timelines. Meaning in two different timelines a brand new link/hero would begin to be reincarnated, and therefore only the child timeline continues to have the original heroes spirit reincarnate.

[@DDarkNut]

I love your theory but it poses a new question. How did downfall timeline Ganondorf obtain the Triforce of Courage if Link wasnt able to go back in time? If he didnt get it, the imprisoning war and all the events of ALttP onwards will not happen.

[@GameheadTalks]

my theory is centered around zelda and her premonition at the beginning of OoT. Zeldas powers for the most part have everything to do with time travel and light, so why was this premonition different? in most games ive never seen that ability displayed. what if it was a message from "another her" ...the third timeline Zelda. Maybe she wanted to save her kingdom by warning her younger self, and inadvertently spawned a second timeline (and that timeline spawned a third). Nintendo didnt just create that timeline as a scapegoat. theres a reason why its there

[@aka_Nook]

That's an AWESOME theory. I would love to explore that....very cool!

[@tehdouglas1]

Without spoilers I can confirm the new Zelda game will change some of this theory.

[@timbrown9332]

But you have to go back in time a few times. For instance, you learn the song of storms as an adult and then you need it as a child. I believe this explanation just leaves too much open to multiple more timelines. Also, Ganondorf would need a way to gain the full triforce. When Link travels back in time leaving the adult timeline, the triforce of courage is there, but shattered, perhaps cause each timeline needs the full triforce, but time travel broke it. If Link were to leave that time behind, Ganondorf would need to find and repair the full triforce of courage, and there's no evidence to suggest that he needed to do such a task.

[@midnight68652]

Actually, that's not true. You do learn the song of storms as an adult because you played it there as a kid. The game itself plays through as the hero is victorious as if you have already been defeated because you decide to go back in the first place. You are able to learn the Song of Storms before you go back the first time because all you have to do is go to the windmill anytime to learn it. When you first awaken before the forest temple Sheik tells you, "Unfortunately, equipped as you currently are, you cannot even enter the temple." She then says, "But, if you believe what I'm saying, you should head to Kakariko Village." She never says what skill. Without knowing you have to go to the graveyard, you might explore the town. You can go into the windmill and learn the song of storms before you even know about the lens of truth (even though you are hinted at it even as early as the first time you go to the village as a kid). So you might think the song of storms is the way to get into the forest temple before even getting the hook shot.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

A more well researched Zelda head could go into the other specifics, but I like the idea that Nabooru and the Spirit Temple were key in creating this timeline in some way, especially considering Twinrova's only other appearance being in this one

[@coralsnake1000]

This is a pretty good explanation , and I myself have always thought that a better solution to the problem of the downfall timeline would have to involve the time travel mechanics of OOT . But I have to re raise the objection that others have given here , IN GAME you DO have to travel back in time twice , first to get the lens of truth , then you have to go forward , to defeat the Shadow Temple , Then cross the Haunted Wasteland , using the Lens , then second to retrieve the Silver Gauntlets , eventually returning to the Adult timeline to finish . "Aah" you may say "It's possible to do both those without the Lens ." Yeah , you can , as a player , with a guide , or simply your own experience with multiple playthroughs , but I really think to be consistent with the game , you have to assume that Link can't . So , I think , with modification , you've basically got it , but either the split happens when you go back for the Lens , or even when you pull the Master Sword the first time (leaving two realities , with Link present in one and absent in the other , travel then being between the two realities) , or there's a further split to match the two back travels .

[@julessantana2139]

You commented about how you can get both the eye of truth, and gauntlets in a single trip. Well, yes, YOU as the player can do that, considering you have the knowledge to do so (a guide, or having played the game before) but it is impossible for Link (the character, not the player) to have known he'd need both items. If he went to the shadow temple first, he wouldn't know that he's also going to need to need the gauntlets in the desert. Same scenario if he goes to the desert first, because even though he needs both (eye of truth to cross the desert, then the gauntlets to rescue the sage) he'd have had to go back to get the lens first, and wouldn't know he needed the gauntlets until he returned and tried to complete the temple. So in terms of the story, Link MUST return twice. There's no way he can know he needs both until after returning in time for one of them.

[@luketroyer5696]

Jules Santana what if getting the lens of truth revealed to him that he needed to get the silver gauntlet right then?

[@stewgems4256]

Then there must be two defeated timelines... with the same result.

[@MrZangetsu468]

Jules Santana I agree with this point. Link using the OOT isn't the same as Zelda using it and sending him back, as the two timelines (Adult and Child) were running parallel, this allows Link to go back and forth without leaving this time stream.

[@Mayeur000Donz]

I want to believe this theory, I really do. But the events of ALTTP and Ganon creating the Dark World rely on him claiming all three essences of the Triforce, don't they? How would Ganon get that if Link was away, travelling to another time branch?

[@johannesl6978]

How did Link obtain the Triforce of courage in wind waker? The Triforce didn't go with him in ocarina when he traveled back.

[@seekertosecrets]

In accordance to lore there are three ways to obtain the Triforce as a whole. You can: Be born with a piece of of it like it was shown on the Adventures of Link... Kill or take it from someone who has a piece of the Triforce, or be in the vicinity of all three as shown from Wind Waker... Or find them if they are a tangible object in Adventures of Link since you have to find it in specific dungeons.

[@ctrlz7582]

Johannes L Yes, it did, at Ocarina's Ending when Link talks to Zelda as a child, you can see the Triforce on his hand

[@theloruleanhistorian]

+seekertosecrets Link in Zelda II wasn't born with a piece of the Triforce, he gained the crest on his 16th birthday to represent that he was destined to find the missing piece of the Triforce (Courage)

[@RJTheHero8]

Pixel Attack iirc Link was only shown with the Triforce of Courage near the end of the game as an Adult. It wouldn't make sense for him to have it as a Child because every time he went back in time, it was before he took the Master Sword, releasing the Sacred Seal for Ganon to claim the Triforce.

[@Razgriz116]

You make an intrestig point and i like it, however it said in the hero defeated timeline all SEVEN sage along princess zelda sealed ganon away, how could the sage of spirit do that if she was locked away and was never rescue. I'm just saying, not dissing you, i really did like this theory, and it's a good one.

[@patyos2]

Link has to time travel to beat the Spirit Temple which means when he goes to the past he leaves behind a timeline where he never finished the Spirit Temple which again would 100% fit the Fallen Hero Timeline. The Fallen Hero Timeline is basically the timeline Link left behind every time Link travels to the past before defeating Ganondorf.

[@mssunnylunarain7]

I always figured that future link died originally in the battle due to lack of preparation. It would explain why he's the only one who jumps forward in time while the others go through naturally. The link of the future failed so they needed to jump forward the younger link of the past with more preparation and knowing what was needed to defeat Gannon, thus created the separation of timeliness, the one where the adult failed and the one where the past link jumpd forwards and won.

[@GamingWithCalvin1]

wait, maybe link being sealed in the sword is the timeline split, and the future he goes to is one, and the one where he left is the other.

[@SeanLaMontagne]

This, and "Is Zelda Evil?" alone is worth the sub.

[@Billyblue98]

This is similar to a video I saw a long while ago that I think was in multiple parts. Don't remember what it was titled, but glad someone else thought up the "It's cause by the time travel" explanation.

[@bakanohakkyou]

to be more specific adult link is told that someone from the past play a song that sped up the windmill which you learn is yourself and while it isn't a requirement you are expected to get the lens of truth as it does classify as a mini-dungeon item like the iron boots.

[@electricluxray2216]

But how did Ganondorf get the Triforce of Courage which he needed to win if Link didn't come back to this timeline?

[@PipeRetrogamer]

Something like that happened to me in Zelda 2 once! I got to the 3rd palace and the raft just refused to show up because Ganon corrupted the save file. Thus my hero was unable to complete his journey and was defeated.

[@williamatchison5230]

"The Master Sword is a ship with which you can sail upstream and downstream through times river"....... -----Sheik...... Upstream and downstream....it's a minor piece of dialogue but the Master Sword would have to launch you into an entirely new river metaphorically speaking in order for this theory to be correct. Wouldn't it?..... Also, why would everything that's already been achieved before Link is "defeated by the block" still exist in this new timeline where the block is movable? Even Epona will be in the spot you left her (although that could be down to a gameplay oversight)....The already awake sages would need to be reawakened...and even if you consider them to exist outside time in the sacred realm after they are awoken, you still would have to explain why entry of the temples after going into the "movable block timeline" still yield any heart container you left in the temples boss room( if you did leave one) during the "unmovable block aka defeated timeline" as well as the temple doors being unlocked.....that alone disproves that the timeline where you are unable to move the block is separate from the timeline where you can move it....doesn't it?......but damn it was a thought provoking theory, big respect.

[@urielmendez4866]

Correction, you actually need to travel back in time twice, one for the silver gauntlets and the second for the len of truth. Except that the lens of truth in it self is a predestination/paradox since in the future the well is drained indicating that the song of storms had been used ( and from my perspective the seal keeping bongo bongo trapped broken ).

[@StealthRose1992]

This may be true for one reason: In ALttP you find the same gauntlet in the desert. The gauntlet was named the power glove or something....but it's grey and allows Link to pick up heavier stones

[@dariusvilla5680]

So the defeated Hero timeline is basically the alternate adult timeline in which Link could not save the sages and defeat Ganon. And that's the timeline he left behind when he wind back to his childhood to get the power gloves before the sages were sealed. Thanks for the explanation.

[@kevinnezukojk8870]

The good guy was supposed to win and the bad guys always lose, so now there is a timeline that the hero is defeated and let evil win, that is why i hate bad evil ending. But now i get it now and how did this happen, it all make sense now.

[@lliatto]

I'm legit mind blowned... I never thought about it that way!

[@MayanPudding]

Nice I was really trying to find this info as to how this timeline can exist.

[@jontargaryen3168]

Its a good theory, but whilst you say, you only need to go back in time once to get the silver gauntlets, it is also necessary to go back in time a second time to get the lens of the truth from the bottom of the well (learning the song of storms as an adult). Although, you can cheat and do both glitches to get both items before becoming adult link.

[@Solibrae]

I would support this theory, but the game itself seems to heavily imply that Link's actions as a child have already taken place even if he hasn't done them yet in his own personal history, such as how he has to learn the Song of Storms from a man who was himself taught the song from Young Link, after the Hero goes back to play it in the Windmill and drain the well. If Link was going into a separate timeline every time he went back into the past and did new things, he would never have been able to learn the Song of Storms, or if you follow the other theory that it could still have been taught to the Windmill Man by someone else, then Link going back and teaching it to him beforehand would have created yet another timeline split.

[@archmdc370]

This is an excellent video. I don't know why I've never seen your channel before till now. And yes I agree, Alex is right. This does explain the twin rova situation. Which means we could see twin rova again in the child timeline too

[@dhexdev7417]

Maybe the branching doesnt occur every time you jump forward but backwards. Every time you left during the game, that timeline stays as the defeated timeline since youre gone and Ganon is alive and free. Only on your last jump forward, where you defeat Ganon, that action turns this one time line youre in, into the Adult timeline without Ganon. Then when you retun as child link, this incarnation stays in child timeline and ready for majoras.

[@AidenSkates]

Wait so in the defeated timeline, didn't link just disappear and ganon one? So how are there future games in the defeated timeline where link is there...?

[@devildavin]

i think i get what you mean, each of the timelines exist at the same time, in the Original Timeline Link is a kid then gets the master sword and goes into the Original Future, the gauntlets are locked away so he returns to the Original Past and obtains the gauntlets, but when he heads back to the future its the New Future, the Original Future is where Ganon wins kind of like Dragon Ball Z, The Future Timeline is Trunk's time where the Androids won but that is the Original Timeline

[@DapperDemon]

the logic is mostly sound, but if changing the past creates another timeline, Oracle of Ages should have dozens of offshoots. you travel back and forth on a whim and make alterations every time that change something. small changes could probably be reconciled by the timeline repairing itself, but there are quite a few changes that determine larger things like whether an entire town even exists or not. Plus, Skyward Sword deals with time travel quite a lot as well, so there should be a few splits there too.

[@JAGraptor]

Interesting theory, it prompted me to play through OoT and see if it was possible. I can confirm that it can be done in one, but there is something that happens during the Spirit Temple arc that changes everything. It all has to do with Nabooru. When you meet her in the fortress she gives you a pass that will help you get to the wastes. Upon reaching the colossus you find that you must go into the past to retrieve the silver gauntlets and give them to child timeline Nabooru. Before you can give her the gauntlets she is captured and brainwashed by the witches. The Nabooru you meet in the at the end of the spirit temple is the brainwashed Nabooru, not the free will Nabooru you meet before the time jump. In the end, it does not matter how many jumps you make, it is this one jump that changes everything.

[@FirstRisingSouI]

I'd always thought there were a bunch of identical hero fails timelines, one for each time Link goes back in time. But I guess since it is possible to beat the game while only going back in time once, that could be canon. Or at least, if you asked Nintendo, they could say, ". . . yeah . . . let's go with that."

[@Toxik_Dubz]

OOT would be the only one with timeline splits because it's the only one Link used the Ocarina of Time to change things causing the timeline split. That's why there's not a "fallen hero" branch for the other games.

[@PhoutianPhill]

How did I not hear about this until now? Great Theory. If Nintendo actually used this as their explanation in the historia it would've been more believable. As is, I still feel there's a better time split using Skyward Sword's time travel portion.

[@Xepherys20]

I had the same conclusion for this theory. Also due to the placement of the oracle games in the hero defeated timeline as Twinrova is alive. If Link never beat the spirit temple due to being unable to enter the temple, Koume and Kotake would never be slain.

[@StealthRose1992]

What about the timeline split in Skyward Sword that got swept under the rug? There are two separate Demise's at the end: the one you defeat in a duel and the other you crush under Skyloft.

[@Diamonddeath]

There would be multiple different “The Hero is Defeated” timelines then such as when he goes to the past to get the Lens of Truth. What happens when the Triforce of Courage disappears from the “The Hero is Defeated” timeline? How does Ganondorf obtain it if it’s missing?

[@vanilla8956]

You forgot about the well but a big point of the "hero defeated" timeline is Ganon being a big stupid minecraft pigman, which only happens in the final battle as a last resort.

[@jessicajones641]

This was the best way to explain the 3 timelines. Thank you

[@fictionalortrue9898]

That time when you go back in time must also be used to get the lense of truth from the bottom of the well.

[@ericstaples7220]

I like your theory a lot and I wish Nintendo would adopt it. I was racking my head trying to figure out a sensible explanation. I was thinking Hero Defeated Timeline should've been the original timeline had none of the time traveling events ever occurred in the first place, but then you couldn't call it a Hero Defeated Timeline.

[@Andrestbh]

Wow, you just made oot link a fookin badass

[@aka_Nook]

I do what I can ;) Thanks for watching

[@daemonhess5237]

dude you're awesome and should make more theories

[@aka_Nook]

Thank you! Im working on a new one right now for Ico and Shadow of the Colossus!

[@mondionatic4083]

in the A Link to the Past manual it says the thieves opened the gate bla bla bla, "This Land was like no other. in the gathering TWILIGHT, the Triforce shone from its resting place high above the world" So there you have your twilight reference for BOTW.

[@goodnplenty00]

A lot of people are hung up on whether you need to go back in time once or twice as part of canon. I actually doesn't matter. Yes each time you go back and retrieve an item or gather heart pieces or get the lens of truth or whatever you would create a timeline split, but the result of that split would be the same: no link, ganon wins. So for the sake of ease, we just talk about it as one timeline because the critical event, ganon taking over the world and transforming it will always happen whether or not the lens of truth is or isn't still sitting in the well.

[@rezaghorbany95]

Thank you so much , finally i found my questions answer after 7 years , thanks ❤

[@firstrealmtv]

The downfall time line is when link dies in battle with ganondorf, I know because in a link between worlds it says after he's defeated the sages sealed ganon away

[@JimAbooGames]

I guess one can say the minute you enter the desert you start a count down timer to a time line split for this to happen.

[@127phelps]

I'd like to think that link remained on the same timeline going back and forth. I also like the idea of him being defeated in the fight against ganon in human form,(he obtains the complete triforce and becomes lttp pig ganon) then after Zelda and the sages seal ganon in the sacred realm, she then sends the injured link back to when he was a child with the ocarina of Time. Leaving link to pull the master sword to try again and beat ganondorf after learning from his mistakes. Tldr. Zelda sends link back in time after his defeat, making the fallen split.

[@SuperNovaDragonYT]

Here's how it happens: Link is unable to obtain the necessary items near the end of his adult adventure thanks to Ganon putting the Silver Gauntlets and thus trapping the Spirit Sage in that timeline. Link has to go back to the past to obtain the gauntlets however this is where the split happens. Link decides that he DOESN'T need the last Spirit Medallion which locks him out of the Spirit Arrows and attempts to challenge Ganon and spectacularly loses. There is no real sign that the Sages even tell Link that he needs the Spirit Medallion to get the Light Arrows. Not only that but Ganon kidnaps Zelda once she reveals herself to Link and thus leaves Link with no option other than to face Ganon with what he has.

[@jamisonjones7199]

Ok so first off, the Hyrule Hystoria states under the "the seven sages seal away the demon king" section on pg. 92 that Ganondorf obtained both the triforces of wisdom and courage at the final battle. So Link is dead or mortally wounded in this scenario; howerver, I have an alternate theory. The time line split actually occurs between adult and child when ZELDA sends Link back at the end, so who's to say the same didn't happen for the downfall as well. But why and when? Remember at the end of the final fight, zelda pins Ganon down with a light beem. Odd timing, right? Could have used some help earlier. But the reason is that Ganon wasn't truly down but was faking and in the original fight Ganon's ploy works and Link is defeated. Desperate, Zelda goes back in time the same way and saves her strength for that final critical moment to give Link the victory. Or perhaps she is able to communicate telepathically through time to herself, remembering that telepathy is infact something Zelda has, especially in the downfall timeline games. Just a thought for the Internet.

[@lindenbree9188]

Ah, I was thinking there must be some hole in his theory for it to not be more popular. Guess that's what it was then. I suppose though, judging by Wind Waker, if Link had disappeared from the Defeated Hero timeline in order to access the Spirit Temple, that timeline would be left with a shattered Triforce of Courage. Maybe Ganondorf put the shards together, got the Triforce of Courage, and then stole Zelda's wisdom piece. Unlikely but, it is a possibility. How to account for the seven sages though when Link never saved Nabooru... I don't have an answer to that. Which is a shame, this is such a good theory otherwise ;-; MAYBE, Sheik could have saved Nabooru herself. Given her power, perhaps she could have bypassed the block and can magically stop the possession/dark magic that controlled Nabooru. That's a giant maybe though. Plus, if one were to assume Link did the well and spirit temple in one go as a child, it'd mean both Nabooru and Impa never got saved in the Defeated Hero timeline. And having Sheik save both of them is seriously stretching it. As for your theory, I've seen it before and personally agree that it's the most likely scenario. It's very speculative imo but it's hard to disprove, and is much better than "lol infinite timelines for infinite possibilities nothing actually matters cuz Link dying is always canon anyway lolz" >.> It's literally just a "We can do whatever the hell we want, no thought needed, because ANYTHING is possible in infinite timelines!" get out of trying for free card.

[@ausgamecollector]

Perhaps in the Defeated(Original Timeline) Zelda never had her divine abilities awakened (similar to BOTW) and didn’t assist Link in the final battle (after never having the initial premonitions) which rendered Link defeated and unable to pick up the Master Sword from the temporarily deactivated ‘ring of fire’ 🔥🔥🔥 🗡 🔥🔥🔥. However Zelda still having awakened as the Sage of time, assisted the other Sages to seal Ganon, then sent Link back with the OOT(similar to OOT’s Adult ending) so that he could survive and save the timeline. Link being bereft of the Triforce of Courage, loses his memories - which he generally would retain, as exampled by his time skipping back & forth in OOT - awakening from a premonition of Ganondorf on horseback(queue the intro of OOT)… The Master Sword, being sentient, with Fi’s consciousnesses not being bound by the confines of individual timelines, foresaw the downfall of Hyrule and therefore sealed Link’s spirit for 7 years for him to be in his physical prime and allowing Zelda’s powers to awaken in full with both of them coming of age, rather than being a child/ children and taking on Ganondorf(which leads me to believe that they were both still children in the original timeline, explaining why Rauru says to Link “But YOU were too young to be the HoT”… Remember that “Link’s ability to wield the Master Sword and fight alongside the Sages” is what makes him the HoT.. Therefore Rauru’s line re: him being too young may also have been referring to his physical stature/ strength, given the Master Sword allowed Link to pull it from the pedestal the first time, this was due to recognition of the hero and the MS(Fi) not realising what the outcome would be the first time the battle had yet to have an outcome(explaining why it never did this the first time, there was no premonition.

[@gmaster634]

I always felt that the Heroes defeat timeline was the timeline link left behind when he pulled the master sword, and everyone believe Ganon won or the heroes defeat

[@jw9677]

Also there was another time you needed to go back in time to get the lense of truth though you don’t need it necessarily but it’s useful for the shadow temple

[@natetroy1824]

I feel like The hero defeated timeline cant be a point in time but a Different multiverse in which link dies. Making the hero defeated timeline completely bogus

[@anonymousperson1706]

But in the hero defeated timeline, ganon was still sealed in the sacred realm by the sages, it's just that he had the full triforce as opposed to just the triforce of power in the adult timeline. Wouldn't all the sages have needed to be present in order to seal him away? But from what you're saying, the Gerudo spirit was never saved in the hero defeated timeline, which would make sealing ganon impossible, especially since he had the full triforce.

[@collaborisgaming2190]

9:02 to be fair, ganon being sealed in the sacred realm was what created the dark world in the first game in the Fallen timeline in the first place. canon got the full triforce, however Zelda's lineage continued on. so zelda didn't die. extraction of the triforce is still possible without killing the host, look no further than wind waker also in going back in time, the block was still still in the past so gannondorf must of had some neat foresight. that destroys the theory. also going back in time to change a future then returning to the future might erase memories of what was done in the past due to no longer needing to do it because it didn't need to be done in the first place. Time travel physics amiright? my piece might also be against the Zelda is evil theory too, since zelda would have committed suicide to make sure her offspring wouldn't live (as in link to the past the only reason ganon was defeated was because Zelda in that game telepathically contacted link and his uncle), an evil thing in itself. so her doings are more mischievous intended than inherently evil

[@JamesCarter-zv8qs]

This makes me wonder one thing. How in the hell did people not think of that after so many years of timeline crafting?? The first rule of time travel is DON'T. DO. IT. Edit: Holy shit it is 2am and I'm just now noticing how long ago this vid was made.

[@Amberleen_the_Light_Eevee]

But what about if Link were defeated after getting hit by a deku scrub? Does that open up a new timeline?

[@taidakun_ig]

I'm glad someone else thought of the hero being just defeated instead of killed. Because to be defeated, Link didn't have to die. It's called the Hero is DEFEATED timeline, not necessarily killes.

[@benishmael9451]

And here I am thinking the dragon break from the Elder Scrolls universe is complicated.

[@oscargasparguitarra]

I always thoght this split was because both the adult line and deafeted hero line were kind of the same. There is no other game in which Ganon actually wins, and only in this game Ganon has a real chance of defeating the hero.

[@ACTION-RELOAD-DANGER]

very informative using that back to the future logic

[@aka_Nook]

Thanks! Glad you liked it

[@DanteBrian]

Vortexxygaming gave a pretty good explanation as to how the Hero defeated timeline was originally THE timeline until Zelda from TAoL used the Triforce to send information about the future back to Zelda in OoT.

[@aka_Nook]

+DanteBrian That sounds pretty neat

[@Spacepoliceman]

Mind Blown, now leaking out of ears

[@aka_Nook]

oops

[@jorgeoquendo7514]

But read this: "Ganondorf the thief obtained the Triforce of Power and managed to get his hands on Princess Zelda. The Hero of Time, Link, challenged him in a battle that would determine Hyrule's very existence, and lost."- HH, pg. 92 This means the "defeat" happens in the final fight, not before that.

[@ColdRamenjf]

So link just left the ‘defeated’ timeline? Kinda like that one episode where Rick and Morty just abandoned their OG ntimeline?

[@link4585]

who would win? An Adventurer with many tools at his disposal and with countless allies at his side? Or One Heavy boi

[@partyboy2431]

It could also be with that shadow temple because he couldn’t make it to the eye of truth

[@Sindraug25]

I appreciate the time and thought you put into this, but I still must reject the Defeated timeline. There's really no reason all the games from that timeline couldn't be fit into either of the other two. Then Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages can be used to meld the timelines back together again before Wind Waker. Then everything is nice and clean, and you don't have to worry about which timeline anything is in anymore since there's only one again.

[@digitaladventurer2142]

Uh kinda a big flaw with this theory but in the defeated Timeline Ganondorf gains all 3 pieces of the Triforce which is why he has it in LttP. If Link just went to an alternate timeline then he would have taken the Triforce of Courage with him to that timeline meaning Ganondorf would never be able to get it. Obviously he must have lost (and been killed) during the final battle with Ganondorf or Ganon at the end of OoT.

[@The_Astral_Observatory]

This theory also explains why the Twinrova sisters are alive by the time of the oracle games.

[@theacademictaskmaster6481]

It's that easy to find out if you think about it. The Hero defeated IS the ORIGINAL timeline of the series. The Visions Zelda got is from the Zelda 2 Princess Zelda who used the triforce to change the outcome and give the Hero of Time era Link and Zelda a chance to get a positive outcome. Thus making 2 timelines that should've erased the Hero defeated timeline making OOT a alternate OOT that you play through the story but it already happened in the original timeline. Kinda like a parallel reality but with a different outcome to a event.

[@MrZangetsu468]

vr - This is a BS cop-out theory. The Triforce doesn't give people visions. Secondly, why wouldn't ANY other person (ALTTP Link for one) use the Triforce prior to AOL in the way that you're saying??

[@aloneinthelight7754]

I dunno if anyone already made this question, but how I suppose to get the Lens of Truth without going back to the past?

[@just_a_bistander_of_the_he3942]

Wait... But if the sage is never set free how is ganondorf sent into the sacred realm? It states in the books that the sages seal ganondorf into the sacred realm after links defeat

[@acoloradolife5135]

and I've kinda always thought it be cool if we could find out what happened to Zelda while she was in hiding those seven year!

[@aka_Nook]

I totally agree. I would love a game about Sheik from that 7 year gap. I think it would be an awesome story seeing the downfall of Hyrule and Zelda training under Impa before she's captured in the Spirit Temple.

[@Azriel261]

When Link successfully defeats Ganondorf, he is transported back to the Child Time Line and delivers the message to Child Zelda and the King. When Ganondorf appears to begin his first steps of his plan, he is taken prisoner and held. Link than goes on the search for Navi but is ambushed by Majora. He is than placed in a dream state and slowly dies. He becomes a Stalfos and trains the new Hero. The events of Majoras Mask basically take place while Link is slowly dying. He comes into contact with the Happy Mask Salesman who later on reveals the truth and apologizes deeply. By this time a new Link emerges and the events of Twilight Princess take place. Ganondorf manages to kill two of the Sages before escaping and taking the Triforce for himself. He then plots to unite the Twilight World with Hyrule and rule them under his banner, killing Zant to take control of the Twilight World. Later on Ganondorf is defeated and is cast into the void, the Triforce of Power is no longer in his possession so he can no longer use it.

[@Colonel2005]

great video man i love and have beat almost every zelda game. question for you though what did you think of zelda 2 on nes? that was the first zelda game i owned and i loved it. i actually remember my first time playing the first zelda years later and being confused and disappointed by thw different play style but i grew to love it almost as much as 2

[@aka_Nook]

I personally haven't played Zelda 2 all the way through. I watched the game grumps play it and really dug it though. I really want to sit down and play it for myself. It definitely is a deviation from the norm, but that's not a bad thing. It is super hard though.

[@Colonel2005]

+Nook 'n Cranny Gaming yeah it was a tough s.o.b. that i didnt beat till i got it again later on the gamecube and again on the wii and what a glorious day it was it only took me 15 years to beat it but i had finally done it.

[@aka_Nook]

Haha that's awesome. I did that with the original. After many tries throughout the years I finally sat down and completed it. Feels good.

[@zeldanerd4758]

Ok a lot of this makes sense but he really did die there was a third secret mission and he falls to some one and he’s forgotten and full of regret he returns as the hero shade in twilight Princess to teach his skills to the hero of twilight there are many time lines but when the hero of time died it leads to twilight Princess’s time line and it will carry on trough just like the other two time lines.

[@someoneyoudontknow3257]

Link only disappears from the adult timeline after Zelda sends him back with the OoT. Using the Mastersword keeps him in the same timeline would be my argument as to why there is only one adult and child timeline instead of a new adult timeline Everytime Link moves forward in time.

[@MrZangetsu468]

Someone YouDontKnow True. It's explained and demonstrated that the Master Sword, The Triforce and the Temple of time are unaffected by Link's sword-time travelling.

[@LoganCoats22]

But what about the bottom of the well? Isnt that a required trip to the past?

[@waylontfd3076]

What about the shadow temple? you can't enter without the lens of truth at the bottom of the well. Link, in this sense, was defeated here as well and had to go back and get that before continuing. Couldn't that also be a reason?

[@aka_Nook]

It is possible to complete the shadow temple without the lens of truth. It's difficult but not impossible.

[@LinkDemonwing]

for those who say that the same would happen when link needs the lens of truth, it is posible to get both lens of truth and silver gauntlets in one round of time travel

[@coolsdebristv489]

I love Zelda games but I don't understand how Link dies when I clearly beat Gannon every time. I was under the impression BOTW was a separate story where Link dies in a game we didn't play..

[@Andrestbh]

how the fuck did you fix it this is my favourite theory so far, nice one

[@dereko237]

Wait basically link couldn’t save someone so he goes to a different timeline but changes a few things and returns